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View Full Version : Matt Kemp vs Last Year's Big 3 FA CFs



Mr Blue
07-16-2008, 04:58 PM
In the off-season, Ned was desperate to acquire a big name centerfielder. He signed Jones and passed on Rowand and Hunter. Let's take a look at how they are doing at the ASB along with Matt Kemp:

...........AVG..HR..RBI...OBP...SLG..2008 Salary
Rowand .291 8 48 .359 .445 $12M
Hunter .269 12 43 .332 .450 $16M
Jones .164 2 10 .265 .240 $15M
Kemp .284 9 51 .337 .444 $406K

Had Ned done nothing we would have been better off given Kemp's speed, age and salary. Frank, do you think your money is being spent wisely? Do you? :speechless:

nme
07-16-2008, 05:03 PM
And yet, according to some in the media, Matt Kemp is a disappointment.

dodgerdave
07-16-2008, 05:13 PM
He's producing average results in general and he's performing poorly in the clutch. Of course he's disappointing. Kemp is nothing special and I'm sick of all the hype that this guy is getting.

Don't get me started with his baserunning.

bestlakersfan
07-16-2008, 05:17 PM
He's producing average results. Of course he's disappointing.

Don't get me started with his baserunning.

If he is average then I'd love a team full of average people. You are unreal man. People like you are just pathetic in the way they view things. He leads the team in RBI, second in SB, top 3 in HR and SLG, yet he is average. That is a joke...

Our youngs guns are the reason we are alive in the race. Thanks to Martin, Ethier, Loney, Kemp, Bills, Stults, Broxton and Wade. Without them, this team would be in dead last.

dusto_magnifico
07-16-2008, 05:21 PM
He's producing average results. Of course he's disappointing.

Don't get me started with his baserunning.

OK. I wont get you started with his bsaerunning. We don't need to evaluate something that literally has 2% impact on his overall game. I think the biggest dissappointment in Kemp is his failure to make adjustments. He still flails away at outside sliders and curveballs. Other than that he crushes fastballs and plays great defense. He has a great arm and is only 23! He is harldy dissappointing, though I think we expect more of him and will get it.

I feel the same way about Loney. His defense is like a rollercoaster. Sometimes brilliant, sometimes spotty. He grounds out a lot and is one of the league leaders in GIDP. Both players are young and to put any blame on them is ridiculous. Both players have a huge upside and as soon as they start to fill those shoes they will dominate. I certainly don't expect them to be all stars right away. No one should.

If we should put any blame on anyone, lets point some fingers at Jones, Pierre, Kant, Penny, and the revolving door at SS.

dodgerdave
07-16-2008, 05:30 PM
If he is average then I'd love a team full of average people. You are unreal man. People like you are just pathetic in the way they view things. He leads the team in RBI, second in SB, top 3 in HR and SLG, yet he is average. That is a joke...

Our youngs guns are the reason we are alive in the race. Thanks to Martin, Ethier, Loney, Kemp, Bills, Stults, Broxton and Wade. Without them, this team would be in dead last.

Wrong. The unreal people are people like you who think Kemp is so great when he's not.

Kemp's OBP is .337. The league's OBP is .342.
Kemp's OPS is .781. The league's OPS is .771.
That's pretty average.

Don't you ever watch the damn games? He's always getting picked off base and he always strikes out in the clutch.

He's so unbelievably overrated. We need to seriously consider trading this guy. I think if Ned tries hard enough, we can get something bigger than Kemp in return.

dodgerdave
07-16-2008, 05:32 PM
I'm also sick of people giving this guy excuses because of his age.

Shawh
07-16-2008, 05:53 PM
Dodgerdave, I don't think many of us are actually sucking Kemp off. Many of us are still disappointed with Kemp. He's proven himself to be a bit boneheaded, but he does have a lot of potential. Blue made this thread to show that none of the so called big FA CF in the off season are faring any better than Kemp. You're right, he may not pan out and it may be wise to package him for a big bat, but, that always brings us to the ultimate question in sports: do you trade younger players with a lot of potential for a solidified star? Or do you stick with them and hope they pan out?

bestlakersfan
07-16-2008, 05:59 PM
Is 51 RBI average? or how about 9 HRs? or 22 SBs? Please curb your expectations a bit. Be pissed with Schmidt, Jones, Nomar, and Kent (to a lesser degree), but not with Kemp.

Cesar
07-16-2008, 06:02 PM
Matt Kemp is sick guys. He's obviously not playing up to his potential and he's on pace for like a .285 avg, 20 home runs, and 40 sbs. That's really good.

jlshand
07-16-2008, 06:31 PM
Because there seems to be a whole lot of Dodger fans very critical or at least disappointed in Kemps" first half of his first full year. I thought the following might help with some perspective.

Henry Aaron.. 282 BA... 13 HR's

Roberto Clemente...266 BA....9 HR's

Moises Alou...286 BA...18 Hr's

Barry Bonds...223 BA....16 HR's

George Brett...282 BA...2 HR's

Andre Dawson...282 BA..19 HR's

Julio Franco...278 BA....8 HR's

KEN GRIFFEY...264 BA...16 HR's

This in every case represents the first full season for these guys. If you want more examples I'm sure I can find them. How would like to have been the GM who dumped Clemente and Griffey after that first "disappointing " year???

Tymathee
07-16-2008, 06:36 PM
Not good in the clutch, are you kidding? Always getting picked off? god, some people see maybe one or two things happen and it's "all the time" whatever. Even the best clutch hitters don't always drive people in when they've got the chance. There's no one hitting above .400 with RISP that's getting regular time.

Here is what kemp hits situationally this year.



By Situation AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
On Second 29 8 8 1 1 0 7 11 0 11 1 0 .276 .475 .379 .854
On Third 9 4 3 0 0 0 4 0 0 3 0 0 .333 .300 .333 .633
1st and 2nd 23 1 7 2 0 0 7 1 1 6 3 0 .304 .360 .391 .751
1st and 3rd 11 10 2 0 0 1 5 1 0 5 6 1 .182 .250 .455 .705
2nd and 3rd 6 7 3 0 0 0 5 3 0 2 0 0 .500 .667 .500 1.167
Bases Loaded 10 9 4 1 0 1 13 0 0 4 0 0 .400 .364 .800 1.164
Scoring , 2 out 48 17 14 1 1 2 22 6 1 17 5 0 .292 .382 .479 .861
Close and Late 56 5 14 2 0 1 7 5 0 21 2 1 .250 .311 .339 .650
Runners On 162 41 48 10 1 3 45 18 1 48 22 6 .296 .366 .426 .792
Scoring Pos 88 39 27 4 1 2 41 16 1 31 10 1 .307 .411 .443 .854
3rd, <2 out 11 17 4 1 0 0 11 3 0 3 3 1 .364 .438 .455 .893
Men On, 2 out 66 18 19 1 1 3 24 6 1 19 11 2 .288 .356 .470 .826
1B Only 74 2 21 6 0 1 4 2 0 17 12 5 .284 .303 .405 .708


Only two bad stats on there 1st & 3rd, close and late, other than that he's showing to be a good clutch hitter and even hits .400 with bases loaded!

.300 with runners in scoring position!

and he's only been caught stealing 6 times and has 20 sb, so he'll end up with less than 10 times caught this year and 30+ stolen bases, that's a pretty damn good rate. Learn some baseball and stop listening to these ***** in the media, they're paid to be negative.

bestlakersfan
07-16-2008, 06:41 PM
Learn some baseball and stop listening to these ***** in the media, they're paid to be negative.

:clap::clap:

Mr Blue
07-16-2008, 06:49 PM
Dodgerdave, I don't think many of us are actually sucking Kemp off. Many of us are still disappointed with Kemp. He's proven himself to be a bit boneheaded, but he does have a lot of potential. Blue made this thread to show that none of the so called big FA CF in the off season are faring any better than Kemp. You're right, he may not pan out and it may be wise to package him for a big bat, but, that always brings us to the ultimate question in sports: do you trade younger players with a lot of potential for a solidified star? Or do you stick with them and hope they pan out? You are correct, Shaw, most people are missing the point of the thread and leaping directly into their "I HATE Kemp" positions. The baserunning gaffes are down about 90% from last year, leaving the flailing issue as the only valid one left. I am very hopeful that quality time with Donny and Jeff Pentland will help him improve there. If he is "average", then so are Rowand and Hunter, only at 30 times the cost. No need to discuss Jones.

dodg88
07-16-2008, 06:50 PM
I have never seen a major league player that is as bad a base runner as Matt Kemp. That being said, I don't think the Dodgers should let him go, he has huge talent, and if he ever "gets" it, he will be great. I say give him at least one more year to figure it out.

The 6-4-3
07-16-2008, 06:50 PM
Kemp is shaping up to be a possible 20-40 guy.

jlshand
07-16-2008, 06:54 PM
Pete Rose 273/6

Joe Torre 278/10

Dave Winfield 265/20

Al kaline 274/4

Darrell Evans 254/19

Keith Hernandez 291/15

Chipper Jones 265/23

WILLIE MAYS 274/20

David Ortiz 282/10

Magglio Ordonez 282/14

Duke Snider 292/23

Ron Cey 245/15

Bob Uecker 025/0


You know Horace( Stoneham,owner of Giants then] We need to unload that kid Mays. He's just been a big bust and we have a chance to trade him before he loses more value, for this great young catcher named Uecker or something like that.

Tymathee
07-16-2008, 06:56 PM
:clap::clap:
Thank you :bow: and for my next act :dance:



I have never seen a major league player that is as bad a base runner as Matt Kemp. That being said, I don't think the Dodgers should let him go, he has huge talent, and if he ever "gets" it, he will be great. I say give him at least one more year to figure it out.

Really? I've seen worse. You haven't been watching baseball long have you? The only reason that Matt Kemp's baserunning gaffe's are magnified are because he's so aggressive on the base paths, and I'd rather have that than a guy who has the speed to go from 1st to 3rd on a single and be satisfied with staying at 2nd.

Also, do you remember the double outs in the playoffs vs the Mets? I don't think any of those two were matt kemp...


Kemp is shaping up to be a possible 20-40 guy.


I agree. Next Eric Davis anyone?

Tymathee
07-16-2008, 07:04 PM
You know Horace( Stoneham,owner of Giants then] We need to unload that kid Mays. He's just been a big bust and we have a chance to trade him before he loses more value, for this great young catcher named Uecker or something like that.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

nme
07-16-2008, 07:23 PM
Well, I've been o the pro-Kemp side for a while for all of the reasons pointed out by others in here. Good job all! I hope the Kemp bashing can be left to Plaschke and Rosenthal so that the rest of us can focus on the positives of a 23 year old natural athlete who could be a franchise CF.

Malone for Pres
07-16-2008, 07:24 PM
dodgerdave, you say that you're tired of hearing the "he's still young" but the thing is, the kid is still young. He's naturally athletic and has made vast strides in many areas of his game in the two short years he's been with the Dodgers. He's only been playing baseball competetively for 4 years and already he's lauded as an offensive talent in many circles with the potential promise for so much more. He needs to learn to sit on he's pitches and wait for the one he likes and he needs to work on recognizes pitches faster. If he can do that, he'll be an amazing player.

I would like to take this opportunity to revisit the "If this forum were the Dodgers" thread and called for an amendment:



dodgerdave :: Jeff Kent. He punches babies and eats puppies.

Anyone else? Anyone?

dan1to
07-16-2008, 07:52 PM
I have never seen a major league player that is as bad a base runner as Matt Kemp. That being said, I don't think the Dodgers should let him go, he has huge talent, and if he ever "gets" it, he will be great. I say give him at least one more year to figure it out.

He's a first poster, but this is my opinion too. The "potential" player he could be outweighs what he is at the moment in my book. However, even routine fly balls seem an adventure with him, and he does run with his head down. Hopefully Bowa will fix his baserunning, if not, hopefully Mattingly teaches him to not have to worry about baserunning by hitting 50 bombs a year. :D

xray500
07-16-2008, 07:52 PM
Thanks Tymathee. All of the Kemp haterz just got OWNED!

jlshand
07-16-2008, 07:58 PM
Well gentlemen, what about this kid Aaron , he had a full year with us and he hit a miserable 13 homeruns. This is not the kind of power production we need from an outfielder.

Well a couple of coaches say he's got really strong wrists

Wrists, schmists he doesnt' weigh 165 soaking wet, a guy that little will never hit with power.

I know you are new to the league Colletti but what do you think?

I think I can get you this coming stud named Mendoza straight up for this stiff. That is if you are willing to act fast and throw in maybe a couple of 100 thousand

Go get him Ned !

BlueMouse
07-16-2008, 08:00 PM
I'm also sick of people giving this guy excuses because of his age.


Deal with it. It's a fact. According to your logic my 4 year old nephew is a crappy ballplayer: the kid swings at everything his way, can't hit ****, and trips everytime he runs to first.

Mr Blue - thanks for bringing Kemp's performance into perspective. He's doing as well or better than 3 big free agents at his position. AND HE'S ONLY 23!

BlueMouse
07-16-2008, 08:01 PM
:
Well gentlemen, what about this kid Aaron , he had a full year with us and he hit a miserable 13 homeruns. This is not the kind of power production we need from an outfielder.

Well a couple of coaches say he's got really strong wrists

Wrists, schmists he doesnt' weigh 165 soaking wet, a guy that little will never hit with power.

I know you are new to the league Colletti but what do you think?

I think I can get you this coming stud named Mendoza straight up for this stiff. That is if you are willing to act fast and throw in maybe a couple of 100 thousand

Go get him Ned !

:clap:

grizz8884
07-16-2008, 08:12 PM
Wow, this is alarming. Good post Mr. Blue!

dusto_magnifico
07-16-2008, 08:22 PM
I'm also sick of people giving this guy excuses because of his age.



I'm so sick of people getting on Kemp because they are ********.

darth550
07-16-2008, 08:24 PM
Kemp regressed and his attitude is suspect.....

Fact!

dusto_magnifico
07-16-2008, 08:33 PM
Kemp regressed and his attitude is suspect.....

Fact!

Regressed? He regressed from 342.

When Mike Piazza hit 362 in 1997 no one was saying he regressed in 1998 when he hit 328.

I'd rather give a top athlete like Kemp a shot before I decided to trade him for a win now veteran piece. Trading him now would wreak of Pedro Martinez, Paul Konerko, or Dioner Navarro.

Mr Blue
07-16-2008, 08:36 PM
dodgerdave, you say that you're tired of hearing the "he's still young" but the thing is, the kid is still young. He's naturally athletic and has made vast strides in many areas of his game in the two short years he's been with the Dodgers. He's only been playing baseball competetively for 4 years and already he's lauded as an offensive talent in many circles with the potential promise for so much more. He needs to learn to sit on he's pitches and wait for the one he likes and he needs to work on recognizes pitches faster. If he can do that, he'll be an amazing player.

I would like to take this opportunity to revisit the "If this forum were the Dodgers" thread and called for an amendment:



Anyone else? Anyone?"Anyone" reporting for duty"!:D

Malone for Pres
07-16-2008, 08:41 PM
Regressed? He regressed from 342.

When Mike Piazza hit 362 in 1997 no one was saying he regressed in 1998 when he hit 328.

I'd rather give a top athlete like Kemp a shot before I decided to trade him for a win now veteran piece. Trading him now would wreak of Pedro Martinez, Paul Konerko, or Dioner Navarro.

Remeber that old Sesame St. game/song. Went something like this: "One of these things does not belong..."

Mr Blue
07-16-2008, 08:44 PM
He's a first poster, but this is my opinion too. The "potential" player he could be outweighs what he is at the moment in my book. However, even routine fly balls seem an adventure with him, and he does run with his head down. Hopefully Bowa will fix his baserunning, if not, hopefully Mattingly teaches him to not have to worry about baserunning by hitting 50 bombs a year. :DI haven't seen Matt running with his head down since the 1st time he did it in front of Bowa. Even though he does still have an adventurous approach to some fly balls, his amazing speed always allows him to turn the adventure into a success.:)

Tapptout
07-16-2008, 08:51 PM
Good stats thanks! It's cool too see the side by side production. And as far as baserunning goes to be 20/6...if that's the worst thing you've seen, you need to watch more baseball....Juan Pierre has been caught like 4 times he must suck on the bases as well.

Mr Blue
07-16-2008, 09:11 PM
Because there seems to be a whole lot of Dodger fans very critical or at least disappointed in Kemps" first half of his first full year. I thought the following might help with some perspective.

Henry Aaron.. 282 BA... 13 HR's

Roberto Clemente...266 BA....9 HR's

Moises Alou...286 BA...18 Hr's

Barry Bonds...223 BA....16 HR's

George Brett...282 BA...2 HR's

Andre Dawson...282 BA..19 HR's

Julio Franco...278 BA....8 HR's

KEN GRIFFEY...264 BA...16 HR's

This in every case represents the first full season for these guys. If you want more examples I'm sure I can find them. How would like to have been the GM who dumped Clemente and Griffey after that first "disappointing " year???

Amazingly, I believe it was Al Campanis who let Clemente get away. He tried to "hide" Roberto and sneak him through the Rule 5 draft, but the Pirates grabbed him and never looked back.:( R.I.P., Al.

dodg88
07-16-2008, 09:17 PM
Really? I've seen worse. You haven't been watching baseball long have you? The only reason that Matt Kemp's baserunning gaffe's are magnified are because he's so aggressive on the base paths, and I'd rather have that than a guy who has the speed to go from 1st to 3rd on a single and be satisfied with staying at 2nd.

Also, do you remember the double outs in the playoffs vs the Mets? I don't think any of those two were matt kemp...


Yeah, I guess I should have clarified that I was talking about Major League Baseball, not a semi-pro league.....I've seen a lot of players play the game, and I have never seen anybody miss as many stop signs and get picked off as consistently as I've seen Matt Kemp do it so far in his MLB career. I am by no means a historian, but Kemp has to be in the bottom 5 as far as "smart" base running is concerned in the MLB right now.

I have no idea what the playoffs vs the Mets has to do with anything. Just because he wasn't involved in that play doesn't make him a better base runner.

All that being said, I'll repeat, you gotta hold onto him. Bad base running isn't enough to get rid of him. His other attributes out weigh this weak part of his game by way to much.

Mr Blue
07-16-2008, 09:28 PM
Deal with it. It's a fact. According to your logic my 4 year old nephew is a crappy ballplayer: the kid swings at everything his way, can't hit ****, and trips everytime he runs to first.

Mr Blue - thanks for bringing Kemp's performance into perspective. He's doing as well or better than 3 big free agents at his position. AND HE'S ONLY 23!You are definitely welcome, BlueMouse. I have seen a lot of "trade Kemp" blather on the board lately and decided that it was time to help out the people who are too lazy to do any research, or don't want the facts to get in the way of their blind hatred. :clap::clap::clap:

GameOver21
07-16-2008, 09:44 PM
Remeber that old Sesame St. game/song. Went something like this: "One of these things does not belong..."


Too funny, I thought the same thing :laugh:

Leo215
07-16-2008, 10:22 PM
Too funny, I thought the same thing :laugh:

Yeah if anything that was a great move cuz it let
a guy named russel play.

Mr Blue
07-16-2008, 10:34 PM
Yeah, I guess I should have clarified that I was talking about Major League Baseball, not a semi-pro league.....I've seen a lot of players play the game, and I have never seen anybody miss as many stop signs and get picked off as consistently as I've seen Matt Kemp do it so far in his MLB career. I am by no means a historian, but Kemp has to be in the bottom 5 as far as "smart" base running is concerned in the MLB right now.

I have no idea what the playoffs vs the Mets has to do with anything. Just because he wasn't involved in that play doesn't make him a better base runner.

All that being said, I'll repeat, you gotta hold onto him. Bad base running isn't enough to get rid of him. His other attributes out weigh this weak part of his game by way to much.Can you do the research and produce the stats that back up your contention regarding just the "number of times picked off" contention? That would be greatly appreciated:)

TREmp77
07-16-2008, 10:35 PM
Because there seems to be a whole lot of Dodger fans very critical or at least disappointed in Kemps" first half of his first full year. I thought the following might help with some perspective.

Henry Aaron.. 282 BA... 13 HR's

Roberto Clemente...266 BA....9 HR's

Moises Alou...286 BA...18 Hr's

Barry Bonds...223 BA....16 HR's

George Brett...282 BA...2 HR's

Andre Dawson...282 BA..19 HR's

Julio Franco...278 BA....8 HR's

KEN GRIFFEY...264 BA...16 HR's

This in every case represents the first full season for these guys. If you want more examples I'm sure I can find them. How would like to have been the GM who dumped Clemente and Griffey after that first "disappointing " year???

You fail to mention Kemp has already played past his rookie status. His first two years in the bigs he played a total of 150 games. This is not his first full year. I think he past that up, although I get what you mean, he is not going back and forth to the minors like he did.
You also left out the fact that Hank Aaron was 20 years old his first year, and the next year when he was just 21 two year younger than Kemp, he hit .324/27/106. Or that Ken Griffey Jr, was 19 his first year, and his second year at age 20 he hit, .300/22/80. Roberto Clemente was never a big power guy, but he did hit .317 in his second year, age 21.
I am in no way hating on Kemp, I think he will be great, but perspective, you guys want to talk about perspective, how about 239 games played for Kemp, and only 26 HR, and 116 RBI, thats more than a season and a half. In half a season Josh Hamilton has almost those numbers, and has been in the league less time than Kemp. I guess I just wanted more progress from him, and I havnt seen it yet. I will, just frustrating right now. Almost 100 games last year he hit .342/10/42, only 66 K's, he seems to be regressing, .284/9/51 and 104 K's in the first 89 games, that doesn't seem to good.

GHGHCP
07-16-2008, 10:40 PM
I think it has more to do with trading the young guy and getting nothing in return, like Pedro, Konerko and Navarro. Screw this win now stuff, we have a young core with a mastermind scout with an awesome eye for talent feeding us kids with bright futures.

N.Z's #1 Dodger
07-16-2008, 10:46 PM
Kemp fans unite!!!

What pisses me off is people post negative stats or stories they seen one game, yet on other threads are praising people who have contributed much less. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Stay consistent at least, sure he isn't putting up the numbers we predicted this year, but neither is Kent, Jones, Loney, Russ, LaDouche, Penny, Bills, Ethier.

**** you, it's a under performing team, stop pointing to one player unless it's Pierre.

nme
07-16-2008, 10:54 PM
The regression argument is a little interesting, especially considering the K count. Do I think Matt has "regressed"? Not at all. However, I think the Ks are somewhat "our" fault ("our" loosely defined as fans, media, and scouts all salivating over this kid). I think he has been pressing this entire season, trying too hard to hit too many HR. That's not regression, that's trying too hard to stand out. Maybe a bit primadonna-ish of him...or maybe he is such a nice guy that he never wants to let anyone down so he feels that it is his duty to hit HRs to keep everyone else happy?

I don't know the guy, and I doubt that anyone in here (especially those bashing on him) does, so let me ask you: how the **** do you know he has an attitude problem (other than through Plaschke)??? I've never heard a single negative word out of his mouth. If anything, he seems quiet, reserved, and shy. If that's an attitude problem, then ****, I know a lot of really good people with terrible attitudes.

Lettuce137
07-16-2008, 11:33 PM
I don't know the guy, and I doubt that anyone in here (especially those bashing on him) does, so let me ask you: how the **** do you know he has an attitude problem (other than through Plaschke)??? I've never heard a single negative word out of his mouth. If anything, he seems quiet, reserved, and shy. If that's an attitude problem, then ****, I know a lot of really good people with terrible attitudes.

You didn't know? Those people are psychic. As for me, I'd give Kemp another season. I wouldn't think of trading Kemp at all until next year.

bestlakersfan
07-17-2008, 03:22 AM
You fail to mention Kemp has already played past his rookie status. His first two years in the bigs he played a total of 150 games. This is not his first full year. I think he past that up, although I get what you mean, he is not going back and forth to the minors like he did.
You also left out the fact that Hank Aaron was 20 years old his first year, and the next year when he was just 21 two year younger than Kemp, he hit .324/27/106. Or that Ken Griffey Jr, was 19 his first year, and his second year at age 20 he hit, .300/22/80. Roberto Clemente was never a big power guy, but he did hit .317 in his second year, age 21.
I am in no way hating on Kemp, I think he will be great, but perspective, you guys want to talk about perspective, how about 239 games played for Kemp, and only 26 HR, and 116 RBI, thats more than a season and a half. In half a season Josh Hamilton has almost those numbers, and has been in the league less time than Kemp. I guess I just wanted more progress from him, and I havnt seen it yet. I will, just frustrating right now. Almost 100 games last year he hit .342/10/42, only 66 K's, he seems to be regressing, .284/9/51 and 104 K's in the first 89 games, that doesn't seem to good.

It is actually 150 ABs that make you no longer a rookie. Just FYI, LaRoche doesn't have that many yet.

CAIN=FUTURE
07-17-2008, 03:38 AM
And yet, according to some in the media, Matt Kemp is a disappointment.

I definatly disagree with that. Id still take Rowand over him this year. Rowand plays a dirty CF. By dirty, I mean dirty, he leaves everything on the field. 100% every time out. But, Kemp, along with James Loney are two players the I am really afraid of, even more so than Martin.

Moon shot
07-17-2008, 03:45 AM
I think it has more to do with trading the young guy and getting nothing in return, like Pedro, Konerko and Navarro. Screw this win now stuff, we have a young core with a mastermind scout with an awesome eye for talent feeding us kids with bright futures.


That is exactly the point. I touched on the fact we traded Navarro for trash. As for those who bring up the canared that they would rather have Martin .....well I wouldn't mind both Navarro, behind the plate, and Martin at third and occasionaly behind the plate

dodg88
07-17-2008, 12:23 PM
Can you do the research and produce the stats that back up your contention regarding just the "number of times picked off" contention? That would be greatly appreciated:)

You don't need a statistic to tell the guy is lost on the bath paths.

Tymathee
07-17-2008, 12:37 PM
You don't need a statistic to tell the guy is lost on the bath paths.

you can't steal 20 bases, get picked off only 6 times and score 50 runs with 20 doubles and 3 triples if you're lost on the base paths.

TREmp77
07-17-2008, 01:26 PM
It's his speed that steals the bases, and scores from second on base hits. He knows where to go, so when he hits a double he knows to run to second base. He isn't a good baserunner, well let me take that back, not a smart base runner. I think he has gotten away with it becasue of his speed for too long. I don't mind him getting picked now and again, everyone else has been picked in their careers. I am a High School Varsity coach, so the biggest thing about his base running that gets to me, is when he hits the ball to the right field gap all the way to the wall, he runs with his head turned facing the ball as he is approaching second base. When, he should be looking at Bowa to find out what Bowa wants him to do, come to third or stay at second. That's just his own aggressiveness though, his trusting his own eyes, so you can't really fault him for it, but as a baserunner he should be picking up the coaches.

I think this is were his age can be brought in to actually defend Kemp, he may be 23, but he hasn't been playing baseball very long, not as long as most of us American kids, who play ever since they are 4 or 5. He is learning on the fly so to speak, he will get better, he should be great someday.

dodg88
07-17-2008, 02:07 PM
It's his speed that steals the bases, and scores from second on base hits. He knows where to go, so when he hits a double he knows to run to second base. He isn't a good baserunner, well let me take that back, not a smart base runner. I think he has gotten away with it becasue of his speed for too long. I don't mind him getting picked now and again, everyone else has been picked in their careers. I am a High School Varsity coach, so the biggest thing about his base running that gets to me, is when he hits the ball to the right field gap all the way to the wall, he runs with his head turned facing the ball as he is approaching second base. When, he should be looking at Bowa to find out what Bowa wants him to do, come to third or stay at second. That's just his own aggressiveness though, his trusting his own eyes, so you can't really fault him for it, but as a baserunner he should be picking up the coaches.

I think this is were his age can be brought in to actually defend Kemp, he may be 23, but he hasn't been playing baseball very long, not as long as most of us American kids, who play ever since they are 4 or 5. He is learning on the fly so to speak, he will get better, he should be great someday.


Excellent Post. My feelings exactly.

I am not saying he won't improve, he most definitely will with experience. But I don't know how anybody can sit here with a straight face and tell me that Matt Kemp is a good base runner at this point in his career.

TrueBlue#21
07-17-2008, 02:22 PM
That is exactly the point. I touched on the fact we traded Navarro for trash. As for those who bring up the canared that they would rather have Martin .....well I wouldn't mind both Navarro, behind the plate, and Martin at third and occasionaly behind the plate

Thats exactly what i was thinking on Tuesday night as i watched Navarro get tagged out at the plate by Martin. We would be in a better situation with both of them still on the team.

dodgernation
07-18-2008, 01:37 AM
Wrong. The unreal people are people like you who think Kemp is so great when he's not.

Kemp's OBP is .337. The league's OBP is .342.
Kemp's OPS is .781. The league's OPS is .771.
That's pretty average.

Don't you ever watch the damn games? He's always getting picked off base and he always strikes out in the clutch.

He's so unbelievably overrated. We need to seriously consider trading this guy. I think if Ned tries hard enough, we can get something bigger than Kemp in return.


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: exactly, we need to trade him while we can. something we already failed to do with Edwin Jackson....

Tymathee
07-18-2008, 11:18 AM
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: exactly, we need to trade him while we can. something we already failed to do with Edwin Jackson....

you're comparing edwin jackson to matt kemp? wow...that's just low dude.

everyone had such high expectations for Kemp that now that he's "average" you all want to trade him. Guys guys, we have 4 young studs that if we keep together can form a pretty damn good core for years.

Loney
Martin
Kemp
Ethier

that's our next 1950's Dodgers, guys who came up together and played together. Chemistry is stronger than talent and these guys have lots of chemistry, have you notice how well the team has played since Torre has had this line up

Kemp
Ethier
Martin
Loney

starting off the game? :sigh: never mind why do I bother...forget it i'm done with this