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Antbanks21
07-16-2008, 12:09 AM
Hoopsworld: The most likely destination mentioned for Artest according to league sources continues to be the Los Angeles Lakers. And if Thomas is ready to go, he could slide into the vacancy left by Ronny Turiaf if the Lakers opt not to match Golden Stateís offer sheet.

A trade to the Lakers isnít anywhere close to being a done deal yet, but it does appear both Artest and Thomas will be playing together in a city other than Sacramento next season.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9484

lakersrock
07-16-2008, 12:11 AM
Ship em Odom and we're good.

Vegasguy80
07-16-2008, 12:35 AM
Too damn funny. Get rid of a good player and get a bad player and one player who won't equal Odom's game. On a serious note, stop making Artest threads. There are enough of them already! ADD TO THOSE! It really isn't that cool to make new threads.

THINKBLUE15
07-16-2008, 12:48 AM
Keep the Artest threads comming. Who cares if there are a bunch. As long as it is a new article, I'm all ears. Doesn't sound like much has changed, but thanks for the update.

dsonLAL24
07-16-2008, 12:59 AM
UPDATE: It looks like Yahoo is also saying that the Lakers are front runners and Thomasís contract is the only hold up. This trade could be closer to going down than we all think:

SI.com: The Lakers ó who have dangled Lamar Odom ó continue to be regarded as the favorites, with their willingness to swallow the remaining two years and $16.5 million of Kenny Thomasís contract considered the only holdup.

http://thelakersnation.com/blog/2008/07/15/artest-to-come-with-thomas/

lakers4sho
07-16-2008, 01:01 AM
If they're packaging Artest and Thomas together, that means that they've trimmed down the possible destinations to either Miami or Los Angeles, in order for the salaries to match.

Reclaim
07-16-2008, 01:05 AM
Interesting. I really don't know if I want this trade to go through. And what about Thomas? Everyone's been talking about him...I really don't know much about his game. Can he actually contribute anything? What does he bring to the table? Is he Turiaf good? Kwame good?:p

KingDiesel
07-16-2008, 01:11 AM
Too damn funny. Get rid of a good player and get a bad player and one player who won't equal Odom's game. On a serious note, stop making Artest threads. There are enough of them already! ADD TO THOSE! It really isn't that cool to make new threads.

:laugh2:
that's laughable. you like to use numbers despite the fact that odom played 4 so of course his FG% is higher and his rebounding total is much higher. yes he's a better rebounder period but with the two 7 footers in there it wouldn't be a big loss. the defensive discrepancy is the true kicker though. that and odoms ADD. if you want to say that artest will be injured or go mad and start biting ears that's different. but if he plays, his game surpasses odoms easily.

also, why do you keep ignoring the fact that playing along side Kobe, Pau, and Bynum would give anyone, including Ron, a much easier time when it comes to scoring? if the trade happens, you'll see Artests percentages go up and Odoms go down.

plpfctn
07-16-2008, 01:22 AM
if we take on kenny thomas' contract which has two years, then how are we going to resign next years free agents which are artest, bynum, ariza and farmar?

gr824
07-16-2008, 01:26 AM
if we take on kenny thomas' contract which has two years, then how are we going to resign next years free agents which are artest, bynum, ariza and farmar?

Under your scenario, the Lakers would have Bird rights to all four of those players.

CalJo1617
07-16-2008, 01:31 AM
:laugh2:
that's laughable. you like to use numbers despite the fact that odom played 4 so of course his FG% is higher and his rebounding total is much higher. yes he's a better rebounder period but with the two 7 footers in there it wouldn't be a big loss. the defensive discrepancy is the true kicker though. that and odoms ADD. if you want to say that artest will be injured or go mad and start biting ears that's different. but if he plays, his game surpasses odoms easily.

also, why do you keep ignoring the fact that playing along side Kobe, Pau, and Bynum would give anyone, including Ron, a much easier time when it comes to scoring? if the trade happens, you'll see Artests percentages go up and Odoms go down.

dont bother replying...the guy just doesnt get it :rolleyes:

GermanLakersFan
07-16-2008, 01:33 AM
Under your scenario, the Lakers would have Bird rights to all four of those players.

which means...?

gr824
07-16-2008, 01:36 AM
which means...?

... which means that the Lakers could resign any or all of them to contracts up to six years in length and 'max' contract $$$s limits without regard for Salary Cap restrictions.

GermanLakersFan
07-16-2008, 01:44 AM
hm...sounds good but they still would have to pay $ for $ luxury tax, wouldn't they?

City of Angels
07-16-2008, 01:55 AM
what did we get for kwame's 9mil expiring contract??Gasol duh so what could we get for thomas 8.5 mil expiring contract??? what ever the case we need to get artest, odom just cant play the three.

gr824
07-16-2008, 01:58 AM
hm...sounds good but they still would have to pay $ for $ luxury tax, wouldn't they?

Yes ... You have to pay for your thrills, even in the NBA ... :clap:

:D :D :D

GermanLakersFan
07-16-2008, 01:58 AM
what did we get for kwame's 9mil expiring contract??Gasol duh so what could we get for thomas 8.5 mil expiring contract??? what ever the case we need to get artest, odom just cant play the three.

yepp yepp espwcially since thomas' contract runs out in '10. Thats when Lebron and D-Wade become FAs so there are gonna be a bunch of teams looking for cap-space -> expiring contracts

x_notorious
07-16-2008, 01:59 AM
It only makes sense. Without Thomas' contract, the money wouldn't work out.

Catfish1314
07-16-2008, 02:05 AM
Interesting. I really don't know if I want this trade to go through. And what about Thomas? Everyone's been talking about him...I really don't know much about his game. Can he actually contribute anything? What does he bring to the table? Is he Turiaf good? Kwame good?:p

He is not good at all. He brings nothing to the table. He is a 6'6, very unathletic power forward who can't make lay-ups and has absolutely no offensive game whatsoever. He is the worst player in the Pacific Division and one of the worst in the league for sure.

tim
07-16-2008, 02:06 AM
sounds like a small Kwame!... Ahh.

x_notorious
07-16-2008, 02:07 AM
He is not good at all. He brings nothing to the table. He is a 6'6, very unathletic power forward who can't make lay-ups and has absolutely no offensive game whatsoever. He is the worst player in the Pacific Division and one of the worst in the league for sure.

I didn't know the Kings had Luke Walton. :p

GermanLakersFan
07-16-2008, 02:07 AM
omg at first i thought you're talking about Artest!! :laugh: but kenny thiomas seriously sux...he could be 3rd string thats why i hope mitch gets them to involve SAR

GermanLakersFan
07-16-2008, 02:09 AM
sounds like a small Kwame!... Ahh.

no because kwame at least is strong, not undersized and can play at least some 1-on-1 D. thomas can'T do sh**

Iron24th
07-16-2008, 02:33 AM
no because kwame at least is strong, not undersized and can play at least some 1-on-1 D. thomas can'T do sh**

C'mon man,Thomas isn't that bad,when he has like 30 min of playing time (in 04/05),he was really good (14.5pts/8.7rbs) and in 05/06 he was decent with 9pts/7.5rbs,last year he played 12 min per game,which player can brings great numbers without playing time???

I'm sure he can be a good role player,as high as I love Ronny,I'm pretty sure he can post the same numbers easily.

ARMIN12NBA
07-16-2008, 02:35 AM
He is not good at all. He brings nothing to the table. He is a 6'6, very unathletic power forward who can't make lay-ups and has absolutely no offensive game whatsoever. He is the worst player in the Pacific Division and one of the worst in the league for sure.

He is not that bad...Just a couple of years ago he was averaging 15 and 9. That is alright and plus he was shooting around 50%. Maybe going to a new team will rejuvenate him.

BTW, if the Lakers do this trade then they should do something along the lines of this:

Lakers get:
Ron Artest
Kenny Thomas
Mikki Moore

Kings get:
Lamar Odom
Luke Walton

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=617~2027~25~575~849&teams=23~23~13~13~13&te=&cash=

This trade works. The Lakers get a solid backup PF/C in Mikki Moore who played pretty well last season and his contract gets off the books by 2010. They also get Kenny Thomas who is alright as the backup or third string PF. And they get the guy they want most, which is Ron Artest.

The Kings do this because they get much needed help at the PF position and then they get a serviceable Luke Walton...BTW, you could also replace Luke Walton with Vlade.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=25~575~849~617~1016&teams=13~13~13~23~23&te=&cash=

Also, this Clippers trade for Marcus Camby could help the Lakers because the Lakers have a little bit of leverage. A DPOY was just traded for a 2 round pick so that gives the Lakers leverage in negotiations with the idea that big name players are not always traded for equal value or what that team thinks is equal value...

gr824
07-16-2008, 02:44 AM
He is not that bad...Just a couple of years ago he was averaging 15 and 9. That is alright and plus he was shooting around 50%. Maybe going to a new team will rejuvenate him.

BTW, if the Lakers do this trade then they should do something along the lines of this:

Lakers get:
Ron Artest
Kenny Thomas
Mikki Moore

Kings get:
Lamar Odom
Luke Walton

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=617~2027~25~575~849&teams=23~23~13~13~13&te=&cash=

This trade works. The Lakers get a solid backup PF/C in Mikki Moore who played pretty well last season and his contract gets off the books by 2010. They also get Kenny Thomas who is alright as the backup or third string PF. And they get the guy they want most, which is Ron Artest.

The Kings do this because they get much needed help at the PF position and then they get a serviceable Luke Walton...BTW, you could also replace Luke Walton with Vlade.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=25~575~849~617~1016&teams=13~13~13~23~23&te=&cash=

Also, this Clippers trade for Marcus Camby could help the Lakers because the Lakers have a little bit of leverage. A DPOY was just traded for a 2 round pick so that gives the Lakers leverage in negotiations with the idea that big name players are not always traded for equal value or what that team thinks is equal value...

If Sacramento was $10 million over the LT threshold like Denver was, then that 'ploy' might work. But the Kings are not ... so it won't ... :eyebrow:

:shrug:

x_notorious
07-16-2008, 02:57 AM
He is not that bad...Just a couple of years ago he was averaging 15 and 9. That is alright and plus he was shooting around 50%. Maybe going to a new team will rejuvenate him.

BTW, if the Lakers do this trade then they should do something along the lines of this:

Lakers get:
Ron Artest
Kenny Thomas
Mikki Moore

Kings get:
Lamar Odom
Luke Walton


I would love it if the Lakers could get their hands on Moore. A very good hustle player off the bench. He could be the potential replacement for Turiaf if need be and is a better overall scorer then him. Heck, I would give Memphis' second rounder to the Kings in that deal as well.

bluedawgalex
07-16-2008, 03:02 AM
what did we get for kwame's 9mil expiring contract??Gasol duh so what could we get for thomas 8.5 mil expiring contract??? what ever the case we need to get artest, odom just cant play the three.

thats a very good observation! next year we can dangle thomas expiring K and get someone decent in return! :clap:

Iron24th
07-16-2008, 03:04 AM
He is not that bad...Just a couple of years ago he was averaging 15 and 9. That is alright and plus he was shooting around 50%. Maybe going to a new team will rejuvenate him.

BTW, if the Lakers do this trade then they should do something along the lines of this:

Lakers get:
Ron Artest
Kenny Thomas
Mikki Moore

Kings get:
Lamar Odom
Luke Walton

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=617~2027~25~575~849&teams=23~23~13~13~13&te=&cash=

This trade works. The Lakers get a solid backup PF/C in Mikki Moore who played pretty well last season and his contract gets off the books by 2010. They also get Kenny Thomas who is alright as the backup or third string PF. And they get the guy they want most, which is Ron Artest.

The Kings do this because they get much needed help at the PF position and then they get a serviceable Luke Walton...BTW, you could also replace Luke Walton with Vlade.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=25~575~849~617~1016&teams=13~13~13~23~23&te=&cash=

Also, this Clippers trade for Marcus Camby could help the Lakers because the Lakers have a little bit of leverage. A DPOY was just traded for a 2 round pick so that gives the Lakers leverage in negotiations with the idea that big name players are not always traded for equal value or what that team thinks is equal value...

The Kings love Mikki Moore,they will not give him,I think if the Kings trade with us (what I doubt) it's Artest and Thomas for L.O or nothing.

ARMIN12NBA
07-16-2008, 03:59 AM
If Sacramento was $10 million over the LT threshold like Denver was, then that 'ploy' might work. But the Kings are not ... so it won't ... :eyebrow:

:shrug:

You misunderstood what I was saying. I was just saying that the Lakers have a little more leverage now. Imagine if Camby was traded for a 1st rounder, young talent, etc. Then the Kings would have the leverage because they could tell the Lakers, "hey, Camby was traded for a lot so we expect whole lot more for Artest." Do you see what I'm saying? The Clippers trade nothing for Camby so that gives the Lakers a little more ammunition in negotiations for Artest...

NrenNstimpy
07-16-2008, 04:58 AM
You misunderstood what I was saying. I was just saying that the Lakers have a little more leverage now. Imagine if Camby was traded for a 1st rounder, young talent, etc. Then the Kings would have the leverage because they could tell the Lakers, "hey, Camby was traded for a lot so we expect whole lot more for Artest." Do you see what I'm saying? The Clippers trade nothing for Camby so that gives the Lakers a little more ammunition in negotiations for Artest...

And you misunderstood the meaning of his post. Either that or you chose to ignore it.

Gr824 is basically saying that they were willing to depart with the "aging" Camby (as some articles I've read have put it) for a lowly pick that they might not even use depending on the standings at the end of the 2009-2010 season and the $10 million trade exception.

Simply put, it was a business move deal on Denver's end, not a deal looking for talent/value in return.

LakerzDQ
07-16-2008, 05:40 AM
what did we get for kwame's 9mil expiring contract??Gasol duh so what could we get for thomas 8.5 mil expiring contract??? what ever the case we need to get artest, odom just cant play the three.

good idea, next season, everyone will be looking for expiring contracts, and Kenny Thomas' 8.5 million will be very vaulable.

paningit
07-16-2008, 07:41 AM
i don't think they'd be willing to let moore go.

better yet, trade LO and Luke for artest, thomas and salmons.

then we package radman and thomas for another biggie.

Iceman_9
07-16-2008, 10:02 AM
I hope they will include SAR and well include PUKE. :D

SouljahPhil...
07-16-2008, 10:24 AM
I hope it will be odom and mihm
for
artest.,moore and SAR...

Vinylman
07-16-2008, 11:18 AM
do you guys think they would do this? i don't know what they think of shelden but he definitely can replace rony


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=25~849~3040~617~2027&teams=13~13~13~23~23&te=&cash=


i still think mitch is the one holding out because he knows sacto will do whatever it takes to get rid of thomas

SouljahPhil...
07-16-2008, 11:27 AM
do you guys think they would do this? i don't know what they think of shelden but he definitely can replace rony


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=25~849~3040~617~2027&teams=13~13~13~23~23&te=&cash=


i still think mitch is the one holding out because he knows sacto will do whatever it takes to get rid of thomas


I dont think so..maybe if we replace walton with mihm they will bite..Luke has a bad contract...

LakerfaninKY
07-16-2008, 11:31 AM
:laugh2:
that's laughable. you like to use numbers despite the fact that odom played 4 so of course his FG% is higher and his rebounding total is much higher. yes he's a better rebounder period but with the two 7 footers in there it wouldn't be a big loss. the defensive discrepancy is the true kicker though. that and odoms ADD. if you want to say that artest will be injured or go mad and start biting ears that's different. but if he plays, his game surpasses odoms easily.

also, why do you keep ignoring the fact that playing along side Kobe, Pau, and Bynum would give anyone, including Ron, a much easier time when it comes to scoring? if the trade happens, you'll see Artests percentages go up and Odoms go down.

AMEN.
We are not pursuing Artest for his rebounding or scoring ability (both of which he can do)...we want his defense, toughness, and ability to hit the 3 from the small forward spot, all of which Odom lacks. I love Odom's game, but it is about getting what the team needs most, in this case, what Artest brings. Simple as that.

Vinylman
07-16-2008, 11:38 AM
I dont think so..maybe if we replace walton with mihm they will bite..Luke has a bad contract...

i dunno ... i think they wanna get kenny thomas outta there really bad because he doesn't get along with theus... and while waltons contract is long... dollar wise it isn't bad...

SouljahPhil...
07-16-2008, 11:42 AM
I have learned from the kings board that SAR may be done...so we should not include him in our trade proposals..

My recent offers for artest would be...

Artest.,thomas and moore
for
Odom.,mihm and karl...(all expiring for the kings)
also we fill out our needs..SF.,back up PF and C..if moore can play C..

next offer would be...
Artest.,thomas and shelden
for
Odom and mihm plus 2 2nd round picks or cash...

we get our Sf and Back-up PF plus a young player in williams...

All expiring contracts for the kings plus some picks or cash...

SouljahPhil...
07-16-2008, 11:44 AM
i dunno ... i think they wanna get kenny thomas outta there really bad because he doesn't get along with theus... and while waltons contract is long... dollar wise it isn't bad...

luke is garbage..and kings wanna save money and clear cap space so they can be players for next year or the year after in free agency...I highly doubt they take luke...just had some trade proposals posted...:)

Vinylman
07-16-2008, 11:56 AM
I have learned from the kings board that SAR may be done...so we should not include him in our trade proposals..

My recent offers for artest would be...

Artest.,thomas and moore
for
Odom.,mihm and karl...(all expiring for the kings)
also we fill out our needs..SF.,back up PF and C..if moore can play C..

next offer would be...
Artest.,thomas and shelden
for
Odom and mihm plus 2 2nd round picks or cash...

we get our Sf and Back-up PF plus a young player in williams...

All expiring contracts for the kings plus some picks or cash...

you and i seem to be on the same wave length... no matter what... if we take thomas we gotta get another big in the deal... i am fine with moore or sheldon... although i think they would be more apt to keep moore...

i think we could add mihm to my walton deal and it would still work... so they would at least get that expiring

LA Mets Fan
07-16-2008, 12:05 PM
Lakers can get Thomas for a year then trade him to a team looking for cap relief. I don't think he's as bad as some people said or else he wouldn't get his contract in the first place. Have a coach watch tapes of him and identify his strength and weakness and help him work on his game. I don't mind him coming as long Artest is a Laker. BTW I really hope they'll find some way to dump Walton or Vlad's contract. They need the money to resign Bynum Farmar and Artest (if he's a Laker) and I know Buss don't like to pay Luxury tax so something's gonna give.

SouljahPhil...
07-16-2008, 12:10 PM
you and i seem to be on the same wave length... no matter what... if we take thomas we gotta get another big in the deal... i am fine with moore or sheldon... although i think they would be more apt to keep moore...

i think we could add mihm to my walton deal and it would still work... so they would at least get that expiring

your right..we need to get another big..either moore or shelden.,any of the two will be fine...

I really would like to trade luke...even if we add picks or cash ill accept it as long as we dump him..:clap::clap::clap:

lakers4sho
07-16-2008, 12:12 PM
Imagine how happy Candace Parker will be if Shelden Williams will be shipped to L.A. :D

SouljahPhil...
07-16-2008, 12:13 PM
Lakers can get Thomas for a year then trade him to a team looking for cap relief. I don't think he's as bad as some people said or else he wouldn't get his contract in the first place. Have a coach watch tapes of him and identify his strength and weakness and help him work on his game. I don't mind him coming as long Artest is a Laker. BTW I really hope they'll find some way to dump Walton or Vlad's contract. They need the money to resign Bynum Farmar and Artest (if he's a Laker) and I know Buss don't like to pay Luxury tax so something's gonna give.

I totally agree with all you said..Especially dumping puke and cadette..I really prefer puke..

LA_Raiders
07-16-2008, 12:41 PM
hm...sounds good but they still would have to pay $ for $ luxury tax, wouldn't they?

Who cares about luxury tax as long as we win...

sp1derm00
07-16-2008, 12:45 PM
I used to want Artest... now I want Marion.

If not Marion, keep Odom.

Start:
Fish
Kobe
Odom
Pau
Bynum

When Bynum sits (its been noted that his stamina isn't that PJ would like it to be) Pau can move to C and Odom to PF. When Pau sits, Bynum comes back and we still have Pau. When Odom needs a rest, we got Odom... this way our front court is beastly most of the time.

I think Artest is too much of a risk. Marion or Odom would be better for us.

NrenNstimpy
07-16-2008, 01:03 PM
I used to want Artest... now I want Marion.

If not Marion, keep Odom.

Start:
Fish
Kobe
Odom
Pau
Bynum

When Bynum sits (its been noted that his stamina isn't that PJ would like it to be) Pau can move to C and Odom to PF. When Pau sits, Bynum comes back and we still have Pau. When Odom needs a rest, we got Odom... this way our front court is beastly most of the time.

I think Artest is too much of a risk. Marion or Odom would be better for us.

Where are you pulling that from? Last year's comments before Bynum got hurt?

Bynum wasn't tested stamina-wise before he got hurt last year. He never played extensive amounts of minutes. Plus, the real test to where his stamina would be is later on in the season after logging decent amounts of minutes throughout the season.

Remember, Bynum didn't even start out the season in the starting line-up. Kwame did until he got hurt. So Bynum wasn't even getting starter minutes in the beginning of the season. Give him a fully healthy year to determine whether or not his stamina is "up to par" with where PJ wants it.

NDP1981
07-16-2008, 01:30 PM
Alright I have came full circle. Artest is nuts but he can play the three where Odom cannot. Period. Kenny Thomas can be traded as an expiring contract in 2010. Look what Kwame brought us? Lets just do it Mitch. Sometimes you have to take risks to get results.

marques724
07-16-2008, 01:53 PM
Mitch is just bargaining seeing if he can get the kings to bite on an Artest trade without taking back Thomas or giving up Odom. IF all else fails I think he'll bite the bullet and do the deal.

G-Funk
07-16-2008, 02:09 PM
Would anyone sign & trade Turiaf and include Farmar and Ariza on the deal.

SouljahPhil...
07-16-2008, 02:11 PM
Mitch is just bargaining seeing if he can get the kings to bite on an Artest trade without taking back Thomas or giving up Odom. IF all else fails I think he'll bite the bullet and do the deal.

I do hope he is doing that..

SouljahPhil...
07-16-2008, 02:12 PM
Would anyone sign & trade Turiaf and include Farmar and Ariza on the deal.

maybe for hinrich??? or any other promising point...
But only if the artest deal is done..So that we are sure we have a defensive SF if we loose ariza..

G-Funk
07-16-2008, 02:18 PM
maybe for hinrich??? or any other promising point...
But only if the artest deal is done..So that we are sure we have a defensive SF if we loose ariza..

What I meant is for Artest.

SouljahPhil...
07-16-2008, 02:31 PM
What I meant is for Artest.

sorry..my bad..
I dont think they will accept it..maybe change turiaf to mihm and add some 2nd rounders or cash...they already have lots of PF.,their rookie is also a PF..I highly doubt they accept it..They also want expiring contracts...

Tapptout
07-16-2008, 02:34 PM
Boo on that trade.

gr824
07-16-2008, 03:28 PM
And you misunderstood the meaning of his post. Either that or you chose to ignore it.

Gr824 is basically saying that they were willing to depart with the "aging" Camby (as some articles I've read have put it) for a lowly pick that they might not even use depending on the standings at the end of the 2009-2010 season and the $10 million trade exception.

Simply put, it was a business move deal on Denver's end, not a deal looking for talent/value in return.

Exactly ... Denver either cannot or does not want to pay the LT hit represented by Camby's salary, so what do they do ? They trade him to team under the Cap for no 'take-back' in salary.

There was no issue of 'fair [ player ] value' associated with this trade. The Nuggets did it only and simply to save $$$ ...

Vinylman
07-16-2008, 03:49 PM
Exactly ... Denver either cannot or does not want to pay the LT hit represented by Camby's salary, so what do they do ? They trade him to team under the Cap for no 'take-back' in salary.

There was no issue of 'fair [ player ] value' associated with this trade. The Nuggets did it only and simply to save $$$ ...

that is a very simplistic analysis... and while true on the surface... i doubt the nuggets worry to much about being over the LT threshold and will more than likely (85%+) use the trade exception to fill a need.

lakers4ever
07-16-2008, 04:20 PM
why dont the lakers offer some trash players like walton, vlad, and somebody for artest other then LAMAR becasue his tempo is really good and hes a perfect pair for gasol

gr824
07-16-2008, 04:34 PM
that is a very simplistic analysis... and while true on the surface... i doubt the nuggets worry to much about being over the LT threshold and will more than likely (85%+) use the trade exception to fill a need.

While I agree that the trade exception has a lot of potential value, the fact remains that the Nuggets did this immediate transaction to facilitate short-term LT savings and possible longer-term Salary Cap relief. Unless they have a specific target in mind now for the use of the exception [ which I doubt to some degree based on seeing Coach Karl's reaction when he heard about the deal ], my position stands that their primary concern in making this swap with the Clippers did not involve 'fair [ player ] value' at all [ which, in context, is the entirety of what the comment you highlighted meant -- in other words, pending future developments ... and when they may occur ... we may both be right :shrug: ].

Vinylman
07-16-2008, 05:05 PM
While I agree that the trade exception has a lot of potential value, the fact remains that the Nuggets did this immediate transaction to facilitate short-term LT savings and possible longer-term Salary Cap relief. Unless they have a specific target in mind now for the use of the exception [ which I doubt to some degree based on seeing Coach Karl's reaction when he heard about the deal ], my position stands that their primary concern in making this swap with the Clippers did not involve 'fair [ player ] value' at all [ which, in context, is the entirety of what the comment you highlighted meant -- in other words, pending future developments ... and when they may occur ... we may both be right :shrug: ].

This deal was done because they can't find anyone to take martin... Their owner while not outwardly boisterous has just as much money as cuban... so a few extra million on the LT isn't a big deal.

MR DODGER
07-16-2008, 06:19 PM
I didn't know the Kings had Luke Walton. :p

LOL, that one really made me laugh.....good stuff

shakobe33
07-16-2008, 08:12 PM
This deal was done because they can't find anyone to take martin... Their owner while not outwardly boisterous has just as much money as cuban... so a few extra million on the LT isn't a big deal.

I disagree, while Kroenke does have all the money to pay the luxury tax, he is known for being thrifty. He doesn't want to spend the money. The LT is enemy number one, regardless of how much money he currently has in his bank account. The deal was done to avoid the LT, plain and simple.

Vinylman
07-16-2008, 08:43 PM
I disagree, while Kroenke does have all the money to pay the luxury tax, he is known for being thrifty. He doesn't want to spend the money. The LT is enemy number one, regardless of how much money he currently has in his bank account. The deal was done to avoid the LT, plain and simple.

so when they use the trade exception i assume you are willing to eat your words?

rhensley3
07-16-2008, 09:20 PM
may i remind you guys that we are the reigning western division champions. we do NOT have to jettison good players to MAYBE get a better one, along with another luke walton that will hit us with a 17 million dollar luxury-tax number! we are not desperate! other teams are!! anyone who wants lamar odom will have to give up WAY more than ron artest. if it were me, the best deal i would do for artest would be radmanovic and mihm for artest....otherwise, stfu and get out of my office!!!

IversonIsKrazy
07-16-2008, 09:38 PM
How abt this, we get those 2 AND Mikki Moore. Plus we get rid of luke walton (FINALLY!!!) Its a 3-way deal, including Heat. Check it out, it works financially 2.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2165~510~549~617~2027~25~575~8 49&teams=23~23~14~14~14~13~13~13&te=&cash=

shakobe33
07-16-2008, 10:34 PM
so when they use the trade exception i assume you are willing to eat your words?

Yes sir! I've worked for the Nuggets for the last 2 years and all anyone ever says about Kroenke is how cheap he is. I don't think anyone in Denver is that surprised to see the Nugs trying to get rid of some excessive salaries. Camby was expected to leave, although nobody expected to receive virtually nothing in return as far as draft picks go.

horry1ur
07-16-2008, 10:44 PM
The more articles i see online about Artest to Lakers has me thinking its going to be a done deal soon...real soon!

Vidball
07-17-2008, 01:08 AM
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/013902.html

LAS VEGAS - There was a blog post that is lost forever, 500-plus words of summer league reflections that disappeared due to technical difficulties.
No matter. There's Ron Artest chatter to get back to anyways.
According to a source close to Dallas, the Mavs have offered Brandon Bass and Jerry Stackhouse for the Kings small forward. The chatter was first reported by Hoopsworld here, but I've independently confirmed the pieces in the offer. Stackhouse has a contract that's almost identical to Artest's ($7.4 million, expiring for Artest; $7 million expiring for Stackhouse), and Bass is a young beast of a big man who comes at the bargain price of $826,269 (also expiring). I can't even come close to seeing Kings basketball president Geoff Petrie doing this deal, not unless Josh Howard is involved.
And from what I'm told, that's not going to happen. As the Mavs see it, the perceived risk of taking Artest is acceptable so long as the price of getting him is Bass and Stackhouse. Lose Howard to get Artest, though, and the gamble is too great. As is always the case, though, things could change.
As far as the continuing frontrunners in the Artest sweepstakes, I've been told by a source close to the Lakers that there are no ongoing discussions. The next relevant date remains Friday, when the Lakers' deadline to match Ronny Turiaf's offer sheet passes. It's at that point the Lakers may decide to take on Kenny Thomas to fill Turiaf's old role or quite possibly engage a third team in the deal so as to avoid his contract. As for whether the Lakers have offered Lamar Odom, that hasn't officially happened but I'm told he is absolutely available. - Sam Amick

lakers4sho
07-17-2008, 01:12 AM
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/013902.html

Are you serious? If this deal goes through, Petrie has officially gone nuts.

Vidball
07-17-2008, 01:16 AM
^^^Yeah, I would be pretty shocked. I really think the Kings are just gonna sit back and wait for Odom/Howard/Marion and insist K9 is part of the package. No way the Heat will take that--they want to go after Boozer next summer. Not too sure Dallas would take that either, but they might. I still think we're the heavy front runners.

lakers4sho
07-17-2008, 01:21 AM
^^^Yeah, I would be pretty shocked. I really think the Kings are just gonna sit back and wait for Odom/Howard/Marion and insist K9 is part of the package. No way the Heat will take that--they want to go after Boozer next summer. Not too sure Dallas would take that either, but they might. I still think we're the heavy front runners.

Yeah Sac took advantage of the situation and added Kenny Thomas to the deal. But if I were the Lakers, I shouldn't be worried about it too much. We can always trade him next season. I'm pretty sure many teams would bite on a ~9m expiring contract, especially because a deep pool of FAs will be available summer of 2010. K9 can be a good trade bait financially.

Vidball
07-17-2008, 01:27 AM
^^Thats what I keep on telling my friends. We won't be spending any more $ this season if we trade Odom for Artest/Thomas, and Thomas can be traded next offseason for something of value...whatever this season reveals we're lacking.

lakers4sho
07-17-2008, 01:34 AM
What I'm wondering is, the article states that "there are no ongoing discussions". What is Mitch hesitating about? Is it K9's contract? Or is it about something else?

Vidball
07-17-2008, 01:40 AM
I'm hoping SAC is just shopping around to find out if they can get anything more for Artest. IMO nobody else will swallow Thomas' contract. Give SAC a couple more days to look around, let Wild Bill fly off the handle one last time, then ship LO out for Bill-Bill and K9.

lakers4sho
07-17-2008, 01:46 AM
I hope they don't find anything more :p

I think if Sacramento insists that K9 be part of the deal, then the destinations narrow down to L.A. and Miami. I don't think Cubes would be willing to send key players to Sacramento, and I don't even think that the Mavs have enough scrubs that can add up to K9's salary. Meanwhile, L.A. can package Odom and Walton, while Miami can just ship Marion to Sac.

Vidball
07-17-2008, 01:53 AM
Dallas would probably have to package Stackhouse w/Howard. That would hurt their depth quite a bit. I don't think there is any chance of MIA taking back a bad contract. The cap space is pretty important to them so they can go after Boozer next offseason. I really think Dallas is our only competition. Artest is ours for the taking!

lakers4sho
07-17-2008, 02:13 AM
Dallas would probably have to package Stackhouse w/Howard. That would hurt their depth quite a bit. I don't think there is any chance of MIA taking back a bad contract. The cap space is pretty important to them so they can go after Boozer next offseason. I really think Dallas is our only competition. Artest is ours for the taking!

Haven't realized that until now. I think that Dallas' weakness is their depth, and trading away Stackhouse would further deplete their empty bench.

Anyways, I hope Mitch really pushes for this deal to get done.

Lakersfan2483
07-17-2008, 02:35 AM
It's time for Odom to go, he had a decent run here, but it's time for him to go.

thepaul
07-17-2008, 03:13 AM
What about this:

Ron Artest wants to be a Laker and he wants the ball (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Ron-Artest-wants-to-be-a-Laker-and-he-wants-the;_ylt=AgEQnaa9lg61sfzx1vIWzR28vLYF?urn=nba,9399 2)

Your thoughts?

Vinylman
07-17-2008, 12:02 PM
Dallas would probably have to package Stackhouse w/Howard. That would hurt their depth quite a bit. I don't think there is any chance of MIA taking back a bad contract. The cap space is pretty important to them so they can go after Boozer next offseason. I really think Dallas is our only competition. Artest is ours for the taking!

what about denver? they wanted him at the deadline last year and they now have a $10 million trade exception... a 1st and 2nd rounder plus the trade exception... :speechless:

Vidball
07-17-2008, 12:05 PM
^I don't know if DEN will take the risk with him. They have Melo (which in itself wouldn't stop them from making a deal) and Artest went public a couple days again saying he doesn't want to play in DEN. I don't think Karl wants an unhappy Artest.

still1ballin
07-17-2008, 01:29 PM
Forget artest....we need Jim Jackson to resign with us

lakers4sho
07-17-2008, 01:36 PM
Forget artest....we need Jim Jackson to resign with us

Are you serious? If he couldn't play 2 seasons ago, I doubth he'll be able to play today.

still1ballin
07-17-2008, 01:40 PM
Are you serious? If he couldn't play 2 seasons ago, I doubth he'll be able to play today.

LOL no im not serious, i was just playing around:D

lakers4sho
07-17-2008, 01:41 PM
Oh alright then :D

LA_cabals
07-22-2008, 03:53 PM
Exactly ... Denver either cannot or does not want to pay the LT hit represented by Camby's salary, so what do they do ? They trade him to team under the Cap for no 'take-back' in salary.

There was no issue of 'fair [ player ] value' associated with this trade. The Nuggets did it only and simply to save $$$ ...


that is a very simplistic analysis... and while true on the surface... i doubt the nuggets worry to much about being over the LT threshold and will more than likely (85%+) use the trade exception to fill a need.


This deal was done because they can't find anyone to take martin... Their owner while not outwardly boisterous has just as much money as cuban... so a few extra million on the LT isn't a big deal.


so when they use the trade exception i assume you are willing to eat your words?

So it seems as if Denver IS worrying much about being over the Luxury Tax Threshold, and that a few extra million dollars is a big deal.

http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/nuggets/archives/2008/07/will_iverson_be.html (http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/nuggets/archives/2008/07/will_iverson_be.html)


Marcus Camby has been shown to the city line. Could Allen Iverson be the next high-dollar player to be drop-kicked out of Denver by the cost-cutting Nuggets?

Indications are the Nuggets would trade Iverson if the deal was right. They'd also trade Kenyon Martin or Nene, if anybody wanted either. And owner Stan Kroenke would be willing to deal the Rocky Mountains if he owned them and it would keep him from paying the luxury tax.

But Iverson has trade value. With an expiring $20.84 million contract, he would be an ideal acquisition for a team looking to clear salary-cap room for next summer in one swoop.

...., with the exception of Kroenke suddenly becoming very budget conscious and perhaps looking to start collecting S&H Green Stamps.

There's a slim chance the Nuggets could get under the tax threshold for next season. One way to do that would be to trade Iverson and get back a bit less than $17 million in salaries...,

John408
07-22-2008, 04:21 PM
Kenny Thomas is actually a decent player. He has a great 20 foot jumpshot. Sure this guy has potential. I remember this guy being overweight when he was with Houston, then he lost all that weight.

Overall, he's decent. Not the best, but sufficient enough to cover Turiafs trail.

John408
07-22-2008, 04:24 PM
Forget artest....we need Jim Jackson to resign with us


We might as well ask Magic Johnson to come out of retirement. He'd for sure do a better job than scrub jim jackson who hasnt done anything since his first two years in Dallas.

Beno7500
07-22-2008, 05:33 PM
Just get the trade done already...

banglawiz
07-22-2008, 06:25 PM
do you guys think they would do this? i don't know what they think of shelden but he definitely can replace rony


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=25~849~3040~617~2027&teams=13~13~13~23~23&te=&cash=


i still think mitch is the one holding out because he knows sacto will do whatever it takes to get rid of thomas

I dont think they would want luke's contract

they might do this

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=549~617~25~3000~849&teams=23~23~13~13~13&te=&cash=

or

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=25~849~3040~549~617&teams=13~13~13~23~23&te=&cash=

Idk wat u guys think we get of mihm and get a 3rd string pg or a pf

banglawiz
07-22-2008, 06:27 PM
AMEN.
We are not pursuing Artest for his rebounding or scoring ability (both of which he can do)...we want his defense, toughness, and ability to hit the 3 from the small forward spot, all of which Odom lacks. I love Odom's game, but it is about getting what the team needs most, in this case, what Artest brings. Simple as that.

I love oddoms game very much but i dont think it is suited for our team cuz we need a natrual 3 so Artest is better suited for us at the 3 imo.:cool:

DownUnder
07-23-2008, 12:52 AM
I think the FO are obviously trying to hold out a bit so as not to have to take Thomas in the trade. But whatever the trade we need Artest moreso than any of the other mooted trades. Artest can defend all 5 positions for gods sake..

Hoopshype describes Artest in part as: A DEFENSIVE MONSTER WHO YOU HAVE TO BE CONCERNED IF HE'S GUARDING YOU.

Now he brings obviously other attributes, but that's what I want on my Lakers team. I want other teams thinking, WHAT THE F@@K. THAT'S RON ARTEST. MY ARSE IS CANDY. He completely changes the way we are thought about defensively. Add Bynum to that and it's very very good. And I haven't even mentioned Ariza or the Mamba.

It's his tougness, his rep, that we need. We need people to be thinking twice when they come down the court. We need a dog guarding the yard. With Artest and Bynum, we aint the schoolyard ****** anymore.

And offensively, it's still status quo. He must be respected where ever he is on the court.

Whether it be Thomas or Douby/Williams, it's worth the risk. I love LO too, but I don't think he is definitive enough. With Artest we go from Strong Offense/ Poor Defense to Strong Offense and Defense. This is not only the answer to Boston, it's the answer to the entire league. DO IT MITCH.

DownUnder
07-23-2008, 01:03 AM
And as for those detractors out there that are concerned about his past. Think about your own life, we all grow up. Hell I've done things that got me in strife, and now look at me, I am the law. If you dwell on the past you'll never be successful.

Most will think of Artest's past discretions as crazy. I also think of them as passionate and taking care of your mates.

He's an imposing phyical specimen who I'd love to have watching my back. I reckon Kobe and others would think the same.

G-Funk
07-23-2008, 02:44 AM
Wtf

Beno7500
07-23-2008, 02:48 AM
I dont think they would want luke's contract

they might do this

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=549~617~25~3000~849&teams=23~23~13~13~13&te=&cash=

or

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=25~849~3040~549~617&teams=13~13~13~23~23&te=&cash=

Idk wat u guys think we get of mihm and get a 3rd string pg or a pf

Nah, we're good at the C position.

Vidball
07-24-2008, 03:27 PM
I wrote Scott Howard-Cooper (the guy that works for Sacbee and wrote about an LO trade for Artest/Williams/Douby)....here's what I wrote to him:

Dear Mr. Cooper,
Long time reader, first time I'm sending an e-mail though. I've been waiting for you to weigh in on this a little bit more. Can you expand at all on, "this version that will undoubtedly be discussed between the teams, if it hasn't been already"? Is this from the Kings camp or is it something that you expect the Lakers to counter with since K9 isn't a desirable contract? It looks like you believe the Lakers would accept this deal--how about the Kings? Do the pro's outweigh the cons? Also, if Josh Howard becomes available, who is more desirable...Howard or Odom?

Thanks for your time

He wrote me back a huge response (he asked if he could use my Q in a blog...I think what he wrote me is probably gonna be a future blog of his). Here's what he wrote:

Anyway, after that long-winded intro to my reply, my actual reply:
I'm sure the Lakers would prefer to avoid Kenny Thomas' contract. The Kings are the ones who would love to attach it to a Ron Artest deal -- if you want Artest at a workable salary, you have to take Thomas at a bad salary. That sort of thing.

I can not say with certainty the Lakers would accept the deal if it's Artest, Shelden Williams and Quincy Douby because they are intrigued by the possibility of an Andrew Bynum-Pau Gasol-Lamar Odom front line. They never got to see it last season because of Bynum's knee injury, and that unit would have amazing potential. So, it's not a certainty they would accept the non-Thomas version. They are down big men and may decide against the deal no matter what.

But if the Lakers do move forward, the Artest / Williams / Douby package would have to be more appealing than Artest / Thomas. If the Lakers dig in their heels and say they won't do any deal that includes Thomas, the Kings would have a tough call. It's possible they have other options out there that we're not aware of. Maybe they feel like they can do Artest / Thomas with someone. But to pass on the chance to get a talented small forward in trade for Artest would be hard. It's not the perfect outcome for the Kings, but it's a positive one and possibly the best they'll get considering the number of teams that have no interest in a spin on the Artest roller-coaster.

As for the choice between Odom and Josh Howard, I'd say Odom has a slight edge. They're essentially the same age -- Odom is about six months older -- and Odom can play two positions, is a better rebounder and much better at handling the ball. Howard will score more and is a good rebounder. The obvious concern is that he has a history of deferring too much.

The other consideration: Odom will be in the final season of his contract. If I'm the Kings, I like that flexibility in this time of roster transition. If he fits in and plays well, you pay him. You'll have to pay him a lot, and with the risk of losing him for nothing as a free agent, but any double-double guy who moves the ball so well will cost you a lot. If he doesn't work out, then he's gone as a free agent. Howard, by comparison, has two seasons, topping out at $11.4 million in 2009-10, plus a team option at $12.3 million that may include some guaranteed money.



Again, sorry it took me a while to get back to you. Hope you're having a good summer.



-- Scott