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Tymathee
07-14-2008, 07:57 PM
Matt Kemp...everyone seems to want to unload him but he's playing his first full season and hitting well, and he's improved greatly so my question is, why is there so many people down on him, what are you expecting from this guy that he's not showing you this year? You know this 23 year old 3rd year player who's getting his first full time action?

NomarsOnlyHR
07-14-2008, 08:19 PM
My question is why does everyone seem to think everyone else is down on Matt Kemp? Generally speaking, I would say most fans, at least on this board, are fans of Kemp, myself included. That said, while he has improved defensively this year, his hitting has not improved and might have even regressed somewhat. There have been many whispers out there (not sure how valid they are) that Kemp is lazy and stubborn and not much of a learner.

I like Kemp but I've also grown weary of the poor discipline at the plate. If a package including Kemp were offered for a young All-Star player, I think the Dodgers would be foolish to not consider it, even if there is some risk attached.

MrChris951
07-14-2008, 08:43 PM
It's not that I am down on Kemp, I just think it will cost us either him or Ethier in a trade to get a player that will help us

xray500
07-14-2008, 11:33 PM
Kemp's hitting has NOT regressed; the coaching staff has him working on hitting the ball to right field which he is starting to do effectively; if I am not mistaken he hit his last homerun to right or right center.

The dude is young and is going to do stupid things. I look back to my early 20's and marvel at all of the stupid crap I did.

His defense has improved and he has like 20 stolen bases already; the kid is going to be a stud. He may not hit 40 Hr's every year, but he eventually may give us something like .295/25/110 with 30-40 steals every year and a butt-load of doubles and triples.

We don't need him to be A-Rod or Pujols, we just need him to be a solid contributor along with Loney, Ethier, Martin and whoever else is playing with the Dodgers for years to come.

Give it time. We all want the kids to be firing on all cylinders right now but it ain't happening yet. We should be excited about our young core as Kemp, Loney, Ethier, and Martin are all putting up solid numbers.

Imagine if you put Kemp in the Boston or Texas line-up; he would have crazy numbers because of the protection around him. He is doing fine and will do even better in the future when and if the Dodgers get some power in the line-up.

Tapptout
07-15-2008, 12:01 AM
He might not hit 40 every year but he could hit a consistent 30+

Bo0ja
07-15-2008, 12:05 AM
This is why I'm not down on Kemp:

1. He's 23 years old
2. He has as much baseball experience as the typical 21 year old (maybe even less)
3. His Line Drive Percentage is a godly 26% (this is how he maintains such a high BA even though he K's a lot)
4. 7 of his 9 home runs are shots to right field or center field; thats genuine power
5. Power is usually the last thing to develop in a young hitter
6. He's seen over half a pitch more per PA this year than last year
7. His walk rate has improved
8. He has a cannon for an arm, has improved his defense, and steals bases efficiently
9. He's 23 years old
10. He has as much baseball experience as the typical 21 year old

Even Logan White doesn't think Loney will hit for power until he's 26 or 27. The same should hold true for Kemp.

He's doing fine this year and he should only get better. He's young, inexperienced, and already posting an EqA of .276 which is fine for a center fielder. I can't imagine why we'd trade him at this point and I don't understand what people were expecting from him in his first full season at the major league level.

don'tfireNedCo
07-15-2008, 12:18 AM
My question is why does everyone seem to think everyone else is down on Matt Kemp? Generally speaking, I would say most fans, at least on this board, are fans of Kemp, myself included. That said, while he has improved defensively this year, his hitting has not improved and might have even regressed somewhat. There have been many whispers out there (not sure how valid they are) that Kemp is lazy and stubborn and not much of a learner.

I like Kemp but I've also grown weary of the poor discipline at the plate. If a package including Kemp were offered for a young All-Star player, I think the Dodgers would be foolish to not consider it, even if there is some risk attached.

then you are NOT a fan of kemp.

unless you are a fan of the other team he is getting traded to.

bestlakersfan
07-15-2008, 12:38 AM
I also agree that some, but not all, are down on Kemp. I think he is going to be a great player, and even this year in which many think we should trade him, he projects to lead the team in RBI, be in the top 3 in HRs, top 2 in SB and be one of the best outfielders. Would I like Kemp to be hitting .300 and have about 15-20 HRs by now? Sure. Would I like to see him not K as much? Sure. Would I like to see him not get fooled by balls that are straight down the middle of the plate? Sure. But...

To think Kemp won't improve and is not living up to his potential is foolish. As of now, he projects to hit 16 HR, drive in 89 runs and have 39 SBs. I will take that in a heartbeat.

Also, let's not jump on this guy because some writers (who are likely scummy) and speculation from too looking to deep into what some people say make us think Kemp is lazy, ignorant or anything else. Don't judge someone before you yourself have met them or interacted with me. Now will any of us ever get to know Kemp like that? Probably not. But, from what I have seen from him, he busts is butt on the field and is very enthusiastic when anyone does anything well and disappointed when he doesn’t. He even gets along with Kent, who many have not been able to do.

NomarsOnlyHR
07-15-2008, 01:19 AM
then you are NOT a fan of kemp.

unless you are a fan of the other team he is getting traded to.

Hogwash. I'm a fan of the team, not Kemp alone. If I thought the Dodgers could get a proven perennial All-Star like Holliday or another young upstart like Markakis, Wright, Braun, Jose Reyes etc etc. at the expense of Kemp, I'd do it. You guys sound like you wouldn't trade Kemp for Babe Ruth. If they could get one of those guys without trading Kemp all the better.

N.Z's #1 Dodger
07-15-2008, 01:21 AM
This is why I'm not down on Kemp:

1. He's 23 years old
2. He has as much baseball experience as the typical 21 year old (maybe even less)
3. His Line Drive Percentage is a godly 26% (this is how he maintains such a high BA even though he K's a lot)
4. 7 of his 9 home runs are shots to right field or center field; thats genuine power
5. Power is usually the last thing to develop in a young hitter
6. He's seen over half a pitch more per PA this year than last year
7. His walk rate has improved
8. He has a cannon for an arm, has improved his defense, and steals bases efficiently
9. He's 23 years old
10. He has as much baseball experience as the typical 21 year old

Even Logan White doesn't think Loney will hit for power until he's 26 or 27. The same should hold true for Kemp.

He's doing fine this year and he should only get better. He's young, inexperienced, and already posting an EqA of .276 which is fine for a center fielder. I can't imagine why we'd trade him at this point and I don't understand what people were expecting from him in his first full season at the major league level.

Great first post, and I agree with it 100%.

310Casper
07-15-2008, 01:22 AM
Watching a player win golden sombrero awards nightly just gets frustrating, he's becoming a golden sombrero hall of famer right now. Hopefully Donny Baseball helps him out.

KingDiesel
07-15-2008, 01:32 AM
i'm down on kemp like i'm down on the whole team. if we were winning and kemp was doing the exact same thing and putting up the exact same numbers he's putting up now it would be looked upon as a bonus that, considering his age, could only get better.

LARock21
07-15-2008, 02:08 AM
This is why we shouldnt trade him. Lets look at some past stars and some that will be playing in the all star game this week and how they faired in their first full seasons which matt kemp is on pace to just abuot equal or surpass:

Ken griffey Jr.
.264 BA .329 obp .420 slg. 108 ops 16 HR 61 RBI 16 SB 455 AB

Barry Bonds
.223 BA .330 obp .416 slg. 103 ops 16 HR 48 RBI 36 SB 413 AB
and his next season
.261 BA .329 obp .492 slg. 114 ops 25 HR 59 RBI 32 SB 551 AB

Matt Holliday
.290 BA .349 obp .488 slg. 103 ops 14 HR 57 RBI 3 SB 400 AB
his next season
.307 BA .361 obp .505 slg. 114 ops 19 HR 87 RBI 14 SB 479 AB

Chipper Jones
.265 BA .353 obp .450 slg. 108 ops 23 HR 86 RBI 8 SB 524 AB

Hanley Ramirez
.292 BA .353 obp .480 slg. 116 ops 17 HR 59 RBI 51 SB 633 AB 128ks

And just for fun Willie Mays
.274 BA .346 obp .472 slg. 120 ops 20 HR 68 RBI 7 SB 464 AB

Matt Kemp's stats
.284 BA .337 obp .444 slg. 102 ops 9 HR 51 RBI 22 SB 338 AB

and others in my brief research like: sammy sosa, lou gherig, roberto clemente, all who didn't come out the gates blazing hot, and I could keep going. Now obviously there are those that come right into the majors and become superstars but the above examples are great players that didn't. Now what if the teams they were with had given up on them early and traded them. Don't you think it would be one of the all time regrets in that teams history? Matt Kemp's early numbers are signs that he is going to do very well in this league and you just don't trade a player like him so early on.

Tymathee
07-15-2008, 02:48 AM
This is why we shouldnt trade him. Lets look at some past stars and some that will be playing in the all star game this week and how they faired in their first full seasons which matt kemp is on pace to just abuot equal or surpass:

Ken griffey Jr.
.264 BA .329 obp .420 slg. 108 ops 16 HR 61 RBI 16 SB 455 AB

Barry Bonds
.223 BA .330 obp .416 slg. 103 ops 16 HR 48 RBI 36 SB 413 AB
and his next season
.261 BA .329 obp .492 slg. 114 ops 25 HR 59 RBI 32 SB 551 AB

Matt Holliday
.290 BA .349 obp .488 slg. 103 ops 14 HR 57 RBI 3 SB 400 AB
his next season
.307 BA .361 obp .505 slg. 114 ops 19 HR 87 RBI 14 SB 479 AB

Chipper Jones
.265 BA .353 obp .450 slg. 108 ops 23 HR 86 RBI 8 SB 524 AB

Hanley Ramirez
.292 BA .353 obp .480 slg. 116 ops 17 HR 59 RBI 51 SB 633 AB 128ks

And just for fun Willie Mays
.274 BA .346 obp .472 slg. 120 ops 20 HR 68 RBI 7 SB 464 AB

Matt Kemp's stats
.284 BA .337 obp .444 slg. 102 ops 9 HR 51 RBI 22 SB 338 AB

and others in my brief research like: sammy sosa, lou gherig, roberto clemente, all who didn't come out the gates blazing hot, and I could keep going. Now obviously there are those that come right into the majors and become superstars but the above examples are great players that didn't. Now what if the teams they were with had given up on them early and traded them. Don't you think it would be one of the all time regrets in that teams history? Matt Kemp's early numbers are signs that he is going to do very well in this league and you just don't trade a player like him so early on.

wow, damn good research, wtg. I wholly agree. Matt Kemp will be a great hitter one day, people tend to forget these things

1. He only got serious about baseball in college, before then he was a basketball star.

2. He only spent two seasons in the minor leagues and in that 2nd season the Dodgers called him up in mid season (he was 21 at the time) and hit 7 homeruns in about 50 at-bats or so.

3. He's just 23 and is always hovering around .300 and shows notable improvement

just because he k's alot doesn't mean you give up on him, the fact of the matter is, even if he does K a lot, he is driving in runs, he bats around .300 w/ RISP and has a +.100 over his average in the leadoff spot (.260 - .370) even though his average is low, he's taking pitches and doing what he needs to do. The fact of the matter is, Kemp does everything they ask of him, only thing he needsto work on is hitting those off-speed pitches and laying off the outside stuff (just like Beltre). I can't wait to see this guy at his first all-star game

NomarsOnlyHR
07-15-2008, 09:29 AM
Kemp reminds me of Raul Mondesi- a five tool guy who never quite was able to get out of his own way. I hope I'm wrong.

Tymathee
07-15-2008, 11:20 AM
Kemp is much better with men on base than Mondesi and a better fielder, Mondesi just had a rocket arm.

Kemp's also faster.

NomarsOnlyHR
07-15-2008, 02:40 PM
Kemp is much better with men on base than Mondesi and a better fielder, Mondesi just had a rocket arm.

Kemp's also faster.

I'm don't think Kemp is a better fielder yet, and he's not even close when it comes to accuracy with his arm. He does have a very strong arm, but Mondesi had a very strong arm and he was generally extremely accurate with it.

Tymathee
07-15-2008, 02:48 PM
I'm don't think Kemp is a better fielder yet, and he's not even close when it comes to accuracy with his arm. He does have a very strong arm, but Mondesi had a very strong arm and he was generally extremely accurate with it.

I just said Mondesi had a better arm but in terms of fielding Kemp is better, especially since Mondesi couldn't play CF, not cuz of range but he just could'nt pick up the ball well.

Here are Mondesi's OF stats as a Dodgers



Year Ag Tm Lg Pos G PO A E DP FP lgFP RFg lgRFg RF9 lgRF9 GS Inn
+--------------+---+----+------+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+------+
1993 22 LAD NL OF 40 55 3 3 1 .951 .980 1.45 2.00 2.51 2.34 20 208.0
1994 23 LAD NL OF 112 206 16 8 1 .965 .980 1.98 1.90 2.03 2.24 112 985.0
1995 24 LAD NL OF 138 282 16 6 3 .980 .979 2.16 1.82 2.23 2.15 137 1204.7 GG,AS
1996 25 LAD NL RF 157 338 11 12 3 .967 .974 2.22 1.71 2.23 2.07 157 1407.3
1997 26 LAD NL RF 159 338 10 4 1 .989 .977 2.19 1.64 2.25 2.04 157 1390.0 GG
1998 27 LAD NL OF 148 287 6 6 1 .980 .980 1.98 1.78 2.09 2.17 147 1261.3
1999 28 LAD NL OF 158 316 7 6 5 .982 .981 2.04 1.86 2.11 2.26 155 1379.7

and here's Matt Kemp in just 3 years.
2006 21 LAD NL OF 46 63 2 5 1 .929 .983 1.41 1.88 1.75 2.22 33 333.7
2007 22 LAD NL OF 91 137 2 4 1 .972 .984 1.53 1.94 1.96 2.30 66 637.0
2008 23 LAD NL CF 51 115 4 1 2 .992 .989 2.33 2.30 2.48 2.65 49 431.0
RF 40 65 5 1 0 .986 .985 1.75 1.91 2.06 2.18 32 306.3


Compared to Mondesi's first 3 seasons, Kemp is better and his arm is getting up there, he's already got 9 assists this year and Kemp's only committed 2 errors compared to mondsi 6 in their 3rd years. He's a better outfielder point blank, Mondesi just had a rocket arm like I said.

TrueBlue#21
07-15-2008, 03:06 PM
This is why I'm not down on Kemp:

1. He's 23 years old
2. He has as much baseball experience as the typical 21 year old (maybe even less)
3. His Line Drive Percentage is a godly 26% (this is how he maintains such a high BA even though he K's a lot)
4. 7 of his 9 home runs are shots to right field or center field; thats genuine power
5. Power is usually the last thing to develop in a young hitter
6. He's seen over half a pitch more per PA this year than last year
7. His walk rate has improved
8. He has a cannon for an arm, has improved his defense, and steals bases efficiently
9. He's 23 years old
10. He has as much baseball experience as the typical 21 year old

Even Logan White doesn't think Loney will hit for power until he's 26 or 27. The same should hold true for Kemp.

He's doing fine this year and he should only get better. He's young, inexperienced, and already posting an EqA of .276 which is fine for a center fielder. I can't imagine why we'd trade him at this point and I don't understand what people were expecting from him in his first full season at the major league level.

I totally agree with this post too. I really like kemp and i think that we should keep him even if it takes us a few years to see "all star" like numbers from him. He is our future and i dont think that he is one of our players that she be considered expendable.

mcpeepants23200
07-15-2008, 03:42 PM
I don't understand the Kemp hate either. Yes he strikes out a lot and makes dumb mistakes on the basepaths but you rarely find players with the kind of tools he has. I also agree that Kemp has improved this season. His fielding is much better and although his numbers are down he is still hitting fairly well. I've also noticed that Kemp(along with nearly all our other young players) hits much better off pitchers he's faced before. We're just going to have to deal with the ups and downs for a year or two until he is an experienced player.

BlueMouse
07-15-2008, 04:04 PM
This is why I'm not down on Kemp:

1. He's 23 years old
2. He has as much baseball experience as the typical 21 year old (maybe even less)
3. His Line Drive Percentage is a godly 26% (this is how he maintains such a high BA even though he K's a lot)
4. 7 of his 9 home runs are shots to right field or center field; thats genuine power
5. Power is usually the last thing to develop in a young hitter
6. He's seen over half a pitch more per PA this year than last year
7. His walk rate has improved
8. He has a cannon for an arm, has improved his defense, and steals bases efficiently
9. He's 23 years old
10. He has as much baseball experience as the typical 21 year old

Even Logan White doesn't think Loney will hit for power until he's 26 or 27. The same should hold true for Kemp.

He's doing fine this year and he should only get better. He's young, inexperienced, and already posting an EqA of .276 which is fine for a center fielder. I can't imagine why we'd trade him at this point and I don't understand what people were expecting from him in his first full season at the major league level.

Wow, that is some pretty strong first-post power! Personally I'm also a big fan of Kemp as well. When you see the Bison at your next family reunion, tell him "Hi" from everyone at PSD.

4everblue
07-15-2008, 05:10 PM
I'm a fan of Kemp's potential, but it worries me that he might think he's a superstar already. I say give him another year to explode, and if he doesnt show up any improvement, then move in another direction.

I would hate to see another long experiment like Beltre.