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TheRedMarauder
07-14-2008, 01:04 PM
Manager Terry Francona announced Monday that Cliff Lee will start for the AL in the All-Star game.

After a rough 2007 season that saw him dumped from the Indians' rotation, demoted to Triple-A and left off the postseason roster, Lee has gone 12-3 with a 2.31 ERA in the first half. Ben Sheets is expected to get the call for the NL.

rotoworld

cwilson21
07-14-2008, 01:06 PM
Best choice IMO.

ShinobiNYC
07-14-2008, 02:44 PM
It was between him and Halladay. the NL has many lefties in it (Utley, Berkman hits better LH, Braun,..etc).

natepro
07-14-2008, 04:06 PM
Him and Halladay? It should've been Justin Duchscherer, without question. The guy has an ERA+ of 210! Lee's is 182, and Hallday's is 151.

R. Johnson#3
07-14-2008, 04:11 PM
Him and Halladay? It should've been Justin Duchscherer, without question. The guy has an ERA+ of 210! Lee's is 182, and Hallday's is 151.

Duke doesn't have that many starts though. The only reason it was Lee and not Halladay is because Halladay would've pitched a complete game.

mariotubes
07-14-2008, 05:28 PM
Duke doesn't have that many starts though. The only reason it was Lee and not Halladay is because Halladay would've pitched a complete game.

lol thats funny but true... halladay should be starting, hes the most dominate pitcher in the al and probably the whole league

rriders9
07-14-2008, 05:35 PM
would've liked to have seen Halladay start but nothing wrong with Lee getting the nod

torontosports10
07-14-2008, 05:40 PM
I think Doc will be coming in after Lee anwyays.. just mean i got to stay up an hour later now :mad:

Chaotic
07-14-2008, 06:17 PM
I think it's a good choice with Lee. He's having a great year (especially after a rough one last year) and certainly deserves it. That being said Doc is a great pitcher, but a bit of a headcase. To be quite honest, I couldn't care less if he started or not, but I'm guessing they don't wan't someone who will scream at someone for hitting a homerun starting the All Star game, but maybe it's just me.

Please note, I have respect for the way the Doc pitches, just not fond of his attitude at times.

jcs88
07-14-2008, 06:32 PM
It would feel more right to me for Halladay to start this game, mostly because he's one of the most established pitchers in baseball. But I think Lee will do a fine job. I wouldn't have minded Duchscherer either.

And on a side note, I was hoping Mike Mussina would make the team and get the start. I know statistically better pitchers were chosen, but it would've been a nice touch to give Moose the ball in this final Yankee Stadium ASG. But this is just coming from a Yankee fan of course ;)

WillRain
07-14-2008, 07:51 PM
I think it's a good choice with Lee. He's having a great year (especially after a rough one last year) and certainly deserves it. That being said Doc is a great pitcher, but a bit of a headcase. To be quite honest, I couldn't care less if he started or not, but I'm guessing they don't wan't someone who will scream at someone for hitting a homerun starting the All Star game, but maybe it's just me.

Please note, I have respect for the way the Doc pitches, just not fond of his attitude at times.

WTF are you talking about?

scream at someone?

Who?

Never heard of such a thing.

Doc is the most sane balanced and rational man I've ever seen on a ball team. "Attitude" is about the LAST word anyone would use regarding Doc

WillRain
07-14-2008, 07:53 PM
No disrespect to Lee (or Duke), but IMO when you have two relatively equal candidates and one is a long time star and the other is a guy who came out of nowhere, the established guy ought to get the start.

Anyone remember Jack Armstrong?

All-Star Starter ought to be an honor that goes to a guy you know is legit.

Humongo
07-14-2008, 08:21 PM
Except Lee and Halladay weren't all that close. There was a 30 point difference in the ERA+.

cmstophe
07-14-2008, 08:37 PM
Lee is JUST as dominant/good as Halladay this year, let's not fool ourselves.

HighVelocity
07-14-2008, 10:07 PM
With the numbers that Lee has put up this year he deserves to start. Good choice by Francona.

Cronin
07-15-2008, 03:02 AM
Byung-Hyun Kim

Chaotic
07-15-2008, 08:12 AM
WTF are you talking about?

scream at someone?

Who?

Never heard of such a thing.

Doc is the most sane balanced and rational man I've ever seen on a ball team. "Attitude" is about the LAST word anyone would use regarding Doc

Well, it wouldn't have been the first time I've seen it and probably not the last, but I can fondly remember him screaming at Melky Cabrera to get in the dugout after Yankee Stadium wanted a curtain call from a nice homerun.

He does it all the time, he's not the most rational man by a long shot. Off the field he's fine, on the field he isn't. A lot of players are loopy on the field, I realize that, but that's not the conversation we're having.

blujaysrock
07-15-2008, 08:22 AM
Duke doesn't have that many starts though. The only reason it was Lee and not Halladay is because Halladay would've pitched a complete game.

i'm with you on that one,

North Yorker
07-15-2008, 09:53 AM
Well, it wouldn't have been the first time I've seen it and probably not the last, but I can fondly remember him screaming at Melky Cabrera to get in the dugout after Yankee Stadium wanted a curtain call from a nice homerun.

He does it all the time, he's not the most rational man by a long shot. Off the field he's fine, on the field he isn't. A lot of players are loopy on the field, I realize that, but that's not the conversation we're having.

Thats funny because us Blue Jay fans have never saw him do that and we've seen him a hell of a lot more times than you have. Maybe you mistakin Doc for Joba, who is a head-case. Or maybe you're just bitter because he 2 hit you guys, I don't know.Ha,Melky freakin Cabrera...good one.

Tragedy
07-15-2008, 09:57 AM
Him and Halladay? It should've been Justin Duchscherer, without question. The guy has an ERA+ of 210! Lee's is 182, and Hallday's is 151.
I'm pretty sure that Duchscherer made a start just the other day, so he wasn't a true option. But yes, otherwise, had his arm been 100% ready for the game, he might have been given the nod.


Lee is JUST as dominant/good as Halladay this year, let's not fool ourselves.
But the difference is: I think most people are just kind of waiting for Lee to come down to earth, while we've come to expect greatness from Doc.

Buckwheat
07-15-2008, 10:00 AM
Why isn't Dontrelle Willis starting?

IndiansFan337
07-15-2008, 10:02 AM
Lee is deserving of the start, there's no arguing that. IMO, Sheets was much less deserving out of the deep NL pool. Although I'm not sure which NL starters may not have had enough rest to start the game?

CBON9
07-15-2008, 12:32 PM
Agree 100% with Francona's choice.

Chaotic
07-15-2008, 03:41 PM
Thats funny because us Blue Jay fans have never saw him do that and we've seen him a hell of a lot more times than you have. Maybe you mistakin Doc for Joba, who is a head-case. Or maybe you're just bitter because he 2 hit you guys, I don't know.Ha,Melky freakin Cabrera...good one.

Joba, a 22 yearold who pumps his fist is clarified as a headcase for it? He stopped, didn't he?

He yelled at Melky, it was opening day when Wang outpitched him and the Yankees won. Ask any Yankee fan that watches games, it happened.

I'm not bitter either, I said he's a great pitcher and he is, but he's a bit of a headcase too.

Jays#1
07-15-2008, 03:51 PM
Joba, a 22 yearold who pumps his fist is clarified as a headcase for it? He stopped, didn't he?

He yelled at Melky, it was opening day when Wang outpitched him and the Yankees won. Ask any Yankee fan that watches games, it happened.

I'm not bitter either, I said he's a great pitcher and he is, but he's a bit of a headcase too.

So your basing him being a headcase on one incident that may or may not have happened. If thats the case then I'm pretty sure everyone in the world is a headcase. Halladay is the farthest thing from being a headcase he is always calm and cool whenver he is on the mound. If there is a blue jay pitcher who is a head case its Burnett.

Chaotic
07-15-2008, 03:55 PM
So your basing him being a headcase on one incident that may or may not have happened. If thats the case then I'm pretty sure everyone in the world is a headcase. Halladay is the farthest thing from being a headcase he is always calm and cool whenver he is on the mound. If there is a blue jay pitcher who is a head case its Burnett.

It did happened and no, I'm using that as an example.

Furthermore, when I said he's a headcase, I meant it. He doesn't let things prevent him from pitching when he's on the mound, but I've seen him screaming and being a sour puss about something many times. He's no Randy Johnson, but it's not like he's drugged he's so relaxed.

Jays#1
07-15-2008, 03:59 PM
It did happened and no, I'm using that as an example.

Furthermore, when I said he's a headcase, I meant it. He doesn't let things prevent him from pitching when he's on the mound, but I've seen him screaming and being a sour puss about something many times. He's no Randy Johnson, but it's not like he's drugged he's so relaxed.

I don't know what Halladay games you've been watching but I pretty much watch every game he pitches and I don't recall him ever being sour puss or yelling at the other team, but since you've seen him do it once it must be true right?

Chaotic
07-15-2008, 04:01 PM
I don't know what Halladay games you've been watching but I pretty much watch every game he pitches and I don't recall him ever being sour puss or yelling at the other team, but since you've seen him do it once it must be true right?

No. I'm stating my opinion, I never said anyone had to agree with it. Or is doing so not allowed?

Jays#1
07-15-2008, 04:02 PM
No. I'm stating my opinion, I never said anyone had to agree with it. Or is doing so not allowed?

But your opinion is bringing a bad name to someone else when what you are saying is clearly not true.

Chaotic
07-15-2008, 04:08 PM
But your opinion is bringing a bad name to someone else when what you are saying is clearly not true.

In your opinion, which you are entitled to.

If people want to agree or disagree that's fine, but if a majority of fans suddenly think he's a headcase just because I seem to think so, I'll be very shocked.

Either way, this thread is about Cliff Lee starting for the AL, no need to keep off topic.

Jays#1
07-15-2008, 04:10 PM
I'm not sure that it really is. If people want to agree or disagree that's fine, but if a majority of fans suddenly think he's a headcase just because I seem to think so, I'll be very shocked.

It's amusing though, the only people that seem bent out of shape about it are Jays fans. Either way, this thread is about Cliff Lee starting for the AL, no need to keep off topic.

Fair enough, we shall agree to disagree, and I'm fine with Cliff Lee starting the All-Star game its really not that big of a deal who starts anyways, these guys are all the best pitchers on their respective teams and I'm sure a case could be made for anyone of them to start.

Chaotic
07-15-2008, 04:12 PM
Fair enough, we shall agree to disagree, and I'm fine with Cliff Lee starting the All-Star game its really not that big of a deal who starts anyways, these guys are all the best pitchers on their respective teams and I'm sure a case could be made for anyone of them to start.

Agreed. Halladay, Lee, etc all great pitchers.

Way I see it, it doesn't really matter who starts, all of them are on our side and all of them will pitch.

JohnnyMapleLeaf
07-15-2008, 04:27 PM
Wow. crazy thread. Chaotic is so far off IMO. Funny thing is, Halladay is known as the most even-keeled and rational players in Blue Jays history. lmao. I could almost believe an opinion like that about anyone else, because, hey...it's an opinion, but when the EXACT opposite is true, you really have to scratch your head. Halladay and calmness are almost a cliche. Class and calmness almost to a fault. Too funny. He's a competitor but never a headcase. Maybe Chaotic remembers one incident when Doc thought someone was showing him up....but that is quite normal in MLB...reacting to disrespect. I guess it's just a point of not seeing a player play enough....who knows....

Head-scratcher of a thread it turned into...lol.

Don't disagree with Lee's starting however...good choice...although I do think Halladay's 7 CG's this year is the most impressive pitching stat in MLB so far this year....no other team even has that many, as it is surely a lost art...

North Yorker
07-15-2008, 04:37 PM
Chaotic,

now I remember the HR. wasn't it like a pop fly that the wind blew out just past the 314 ft wall??? If it was then I applaud Doc for yelling at Melky for hitting a 315 foot fly ball that would only be a HR at Yankee stadium. Melky should be proud and should've been in the HR derby, I'd bet he would have won too,lol. Over the weekend Posada said eFF you to Burnett when he struck him out, is he a head-case, because that meets your standards...

Now as for Lee, the numbers don't lie and it's a pretty good story for a pitcher that was sent down last year, can't really argue against him after his stellar year.

WillRain
07-16-2008, 01:03 AM
Lee is deserving of the start, there's no arguing that. IMO, Sheets was much less deserving out of the deep NL pool. Although I'm not sure which NL starters may not have had enough rest to start the game?

I don't mean to slag on Lee but doc has more complete games in the first half than any other TEAM has. Lee has 143 major league starts and has FOUR complete games.

That ought to mean something.

WillRain
07-16-2008, 01:07 AM
Lee is JUST as dominant/good as Halladay this year, let's not fool ourselves.

Get back to me when he has seven complete games...in his career.

Chaotic
07-16-2008, 07:57 AM
Chaotic,

now I remember the HR. wasn't it like a pop fly that the wind blew out just past the 314 ft wall??? If it was then I applaud Doc for yelling at Melky for hitting a 315 foot fly ball that would only be a HR at Yankee stadium. Melky should be proud and should've been in the HR derby, I'd bet he would have won too,lol. Over the weekend Posada said eFF you to Burnett when he struck him out, is he a head-case, because that meets your standards...

Now as for Lee, the numbers don't lie and it's a pretty good story for a pitcher that was sent down last year, can't really argue against him after his stellar year.

Well, from what I remember, Posada didn't point at Burnett and say it to his face, such as Doc did, but I could be mistaken.

As for Melky, why wouldn't he be proud? He got a HR to tie a game against a very tough pitcher putting them into a spot to win opening day the last year of Yankee Stadium, the best and most historic ballpark.

Don't talk about a HR derby and think it's hilarious. You're a clown by doing so and I'm not going back and forth with you about something that was over with yesterday.

North Yorker
07-16-2008, 10:57 AM
Well, from what I remember, Posada didn't point at Burnett and say it to his face, such as Doc did, but I could be mistaken.

As for Melky, why wouldn't he be proud? He got a HR to tie a game against a very tough pitcher putting them into a spot to win opening day the last year of Yankee Stadium, the best and most historic ballpark.

Don't talk about a HR derby and think it's hilarious. You're a clown by doing so and I'm not going back and forth with you about something that was over with yesterday.

Well since this was an All Star thread, why did you have to start by saying someone was a "head case"? Because if you think what you "saw";) was so bad, evryone who in the world is one I guess if we went by your definition...:clap:

Chaotic
07-16-2008, 01:38 PM
Well since this was an All Star thread, why did you have to start by saying someone was a "head case"? Because if you think what you "saw";) was so bad, evryone who in the world is one I guess if we went by your definition...:clap:

That makes no sense and has absolutely no validity to the talk of my opinion. Here's a hint, quit while you're ahead.

This is an All Star thread talking about Cliff Lee getting the start for the AL. I stated my opinion on why it wasn't Halladay and said that Cliff Lee was deserving. I was then attacked by members of PSD asking when the "occurence" was and why I stated MY opinion, to which I gave them an answer. I'm not the one that said, "Hey, lets turn this into a Roy Halladay thread!" because honestly, he's not on my team (other then last night) and it's no longer a big deal.

Put it to rest, everyone else has. People like yourself find the need to revive a dead topic I suppose, whatever helps you sleep at night.

North Yorker
07-16-2008, 06:02 PM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246280

since it's so against your religion to talk about this topic here maybe you would feel more comfortable about in this thread:)

And I think I know why you feel the way you do... your team is surrounded by head cases(Clemons when he threw the freakin bat, A-Rod- he had to get therapy, and Joba-self explanatory) and you just feel the need to rag on other team's players.

Chaotic
07-16-2008, 07:56 PM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246280

since it's so against your religion to talk about this topic here maybe you would feel more comfortable about in this thread:)

And I think I know why you feel the way you do... your team is surrounded by head cases(Clemons when he threw the freakin bat, A-Rod- he had to get therapy, and Joba-self explanatory) and you just feel the need to rag on other team's players.

Roger and Arod are probably some of the biggest head cases to ever play the game. I'm willing to admit that and I'm a Yankees fan.

Nice thread too, silly Jays fans. The only ones who seem to have their panties in a bunch.

H-MYK
07-16-2008, 08:17 PM
Why isn't Dontrelle Willis starting?

The D-Train is D-Railed. He's having a disastrous year.