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southerndodgerf
07-14-2008, 12:54 PM
We all want to see Ned get his walking papers as soon as possible. However, we fail to address one problem. Much like his best friend to the north, one has to wonder what state the Dodgers will be in upon his departure. Even if he leaves after this season, we still are on the hook for Schmidt who is pretty much done, Jones who is on pace to have 5 rbis, and Pierre who at 9 million dollars is the most expensive pinch runner in history. Add this with two kids who need consistant playing time and we STILL have a logjam.

This can only mean one thing. One of the kids is gone. If Andruw does not turn it around, whomever takes over is left with a choice. Play Andruw @18 for his defense alone (and sit Pierre or one of the kids), bench him (though with his hitting he would make the worst PH in history), or outright release him and eat 18 million dollars. The point is, we still have a logjam.

Further, even if Colletti departs, we still have some infield holes next year. It is almost a given that Kent is retiring. So far, we have 3 positions for 4 players (Hu, Abreu, Dewitt, Laroche). The first one has eye issues. The second one is an injury waiting to happen. The third could be for real in a few years. The latter has yet to prove his hype (though he hasnt been given the chance too often).

In other words, we either sign Furcal or dip into FA to fill one of these three positions.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but next year's team will resemble this one almost exactly. I just do not see another way. Sure we may land CC and Hudson. But even Hudson only adds so much.

310Casper
07-14-2008, 01:02 PM
Sitting down Ethier and Kemp is not only gonna make the season worse, but it's gonna make the future worse as well, impeding their development. We need to go the Giants route, like they are currently doing post-Barry era.

If i were the FO, I'd do the following, effective immediate today.
1) Send Jones to the minor leagues for the rest of the 2nd half, and get him a shrink. perhaps he can return to his form next season.
2) Play Kemp, Ethier and Young as our everyday outfielders until Pierre is back form the DL, then platoon Pierre and Young. Let Kemp strikeout a billion times, until he's blue in the face. Only way to break out of a slump is to keep failing until you succeed. Let these kids play their hearts out, let them make errors, let them learn.
3) Play DeWitt at 3rd and LaRoche at 2nd all season long. Keep nomar at SS until his body breaks down again.
3) Trade Lowe for some young talent asap, before the trade deadline.
4) Trade Kent to an AL team competing for a ring before this trade deadline, he makes a good 1b, 2b and DH hitter for many AL teams trying to win it all. We wont get much for him, but perhaps some teams prospect relievers.
5) If we win our division this way, great. If we dont, great. It wouldn't matter anyway, since we stand no chance in hel1 of winning it all anyway,.
6) Offseason, sign Odawg and CC.
7) Fire Ned, make White Gm.
8) Watch the rest unfold.

southerndodgerf
07-14-2008, 01:04 PM
Your suggestions make sense to some degree. I do not think McCourt has the marbles to tank the season for better ones to come. But, I could be wrong. I agree that we are not looking like WS team right now but baseball is strange. However, you are suggesting just what the Dbacks did and it worked out pretty well for them.

GHGHCP
07-14-2008, 01:21 PM
Sitting down Ethier and Kemp is not only gonna make the season worse, but it's gonna make the future worse as well, impeding their development. We need to go the Giants route, like they are currently doing post-Barry era.

If i were the FO, I'd do the following, effective immediate today.
1) Send Jones to the minor leagues for the rest of the 2nd half, and get him a shrink. perhaps he can return to his form next season.
2) Play Kemp, Ethier and Young as our everyday outfielders until Pierre is back form the DL, then platoon Pierre and Young. Let Kemp strikeout a billion times, until he's blue in the face. Only way to break out of a slump is to keep failing until you succeed. Let these kids play their hearts out, let them make errors, let them learn.
3) Play DeWitt at 3rd and LaRoche at 2nd all season long. Keep nomar at SS until his body breaks down again.
3) Trade Lowe for some young talent asap, before the trade deadline.
4) Trade Kent to an AL team competing for a ring before this trade deadline, he makes a good 1b, 2b and DH hitter for many AL teams trying to win it all. We wont get much for him, but perhaps some teams prospect relievers.
5) If we win our division this way, great. If we dont, great. It wouldn't matter anyway, since we stand no chance in hel1 of winning it all anyway,.
6) Offseason, sign Odawg and CC.
7) Fire Ned, make White Gm.
8) Watch the rest unfold.

I think we have a winnar!

I'd like to add that when Ned is fired, we knock him out, dress him in all Giants gear and drop him off in East LA with no money or phone, just a map to SF. :D

Tymathee
07-14-2008, 01:39 PM
We all want to see Ned get his walking papers as soon as possible. However, we fail to address one problem. Much like his best friend to the north, one has to wonder what state the Dodgers will be in upon his departure. Even if he leaves after this season, we still are on the hook for Schmidt who is pretty much done, Jones who is on pace to have 5 rbis, and Pierre who at 9 million dollars is the most expensive pinch runner in history. Add this with two kids who need consistant playing time and we STILL have a logjam.

This can only mean one thing. One of the kids is gone. If Andruw does not turn it around, whomever takes over is left with a choice. Play Andruw @18 for his defense alone (and sit Pierre or one of the kids), bench him (though with his hitting he would make the worst PH in history), or outright release him and eat 18 million dollars. The point is, we still have a logjam.


I agree. Although I feel Jones will turn it around somewhat. I think that when Pierre goes back down that they need to send Jones back down to the minors to work on his hitting because working on a new stance in the majors isn't working but he had a pretty good game yesterday after striking out 5 times, hopefully Don M will really help the team.



Further, even if Colletti departs, we still have some infield holes next year. It is almost a given that Kent is retiring. So far, we have 3 positions for 4 players (Hu, Abreu, Dewitt, Laroche). The first one has eye issues. The second one is an injury waiting to happen. The third could be for real in a few years. The latter has yet to prove his hype (though he hasnt been given the chance too often).

In other words, we either sign Furcal or dip into FA to fill one of these three positions.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but next year's team will resemble this one almost exactly. I just do not see another way. Sure we may land CC and Hudson. But even Hudson only adds so much.

Not far from the truth.

I think that our next 2B may be Ivan DeJesus. He's been told by the Dodgers to play every 2 out of 3 games at 2B. He may be getting called up soon, or be moved to AAA, or traded, they aren't sure. But he's a really good player, he hits 300, has a 400 obp, he has 11 steals and only caught once.

I think Furcal gets resigned and Hu traded or spends one more year in AAA to work out his hitting or whatever. CC may get signed, Schmidt released if he can't make it back (or maybe he retires, i hope i hope)

I think getting down on LaRoche is very counterproductive. This guy is a talent and getting rid of him before we can see if he'll work isn't very smart, he's got some freak injuries and has yet to get 200+ atbats in the majors. He's only 23 and just because he doesn't come up and instantly start hitting doens't mean you can say he's a bust. As for Dewitt, i dont know if he's teh real thing, he's starting to show his limitations at the plate. The guy going to be a left handed adrian beltre IMHO and Laroche has a bigger upside and the front office knows this. We'll see what happens though, next year is going be huge

4everblue
07-14-2008, 01:42 PM
Guys, last time I checked we are 1 game out of 1st place... Could we just wait until September to quit on the season?

IBleedBlue15
07-14-2008, 01:44 PM
Sure we may land CC and Hudson. But even Hudson only adds so much.


Yes, but with all of the vets having their contracts expire at the end of the season, we should have enough money to sign both of them.

310Casper
07-14-2008, 01:51 PM
Guys, last time I checked we are 1 game out of 1st place... Could we just wait until September to quit on the season?

Dude, we're playing in the worst division in baseball. The leader of our division is under .500 lol, pathetic. Just because we are 1 game out does not mean anything. Do you honestly think we have a chance agains powerhouses like Boston, Angels, Cubs, etc..? If so, I'd like to know what you are smoking.

We win our division, yay! That means we get to play 4 more games in October and then whine and moan about how we let our vets like Lowe and Kent walk off without getting anything in return.

BlueZoo
07-14-2008, 02:07 PM
Like winning the Special Olympics...was that an attempt at humor?
Hilarious, man...there's only one thing more pathetic than a guy who thinks he's funny and isn't; it's a guy who thinks he's funny and isn't and doesn't have the brains to realize it.

4everblue
07-14-2008, 02:33 PM
Dude, we're playing in the worst division in baseball. Thats like winning the special olympics. The leader of our division is under .500 lol, pathetic. Just because we are 1 game out does not mean anything. Do you honestly think we have a chance agains powerhouses like Boston, Angels, Cubs, etc..? If so, I'd like to know what you are smoking.

We win our division, yay! That means we get to play 4 more games in October and then whine and moan about how we let our vets like Lowe and Kent walk off without getting anything in return.

If you havent noticed, we have something that wins championships, and that's pitching...

Yes, our bats have been horrible, but half our team has been on the DL. If we win the division, we should have Furcal back by then. He wont be 100%, but him at 85% is a lot better than all the options we have. Also, with Sweeney out we should have a better bench.

We only need 1 guy to step up in the middle of the lineup, or maybe 1 trade to get this season going.

bestlakersfan
07-14-2008, 02:56 PM
310 Casper, can you apply to be the GM? Great ideas buddy. I would just say put DeWitt at second and LaRoche at 3rd.

BlueMouse
07-14-2008, 03:53 PM
Dude, we're playing in the worst division in baseball. The leader of our division is under .500 lol, pathetic. Just because we are 1 game out does not mean anything. Do you honestly think we have a chance agains powerhouses like Boston, Angels, Cubs, etc..? If so, I'd like to know what you are smoking.

We win our division, yay! That means we get to play 4 more games in October and then whine and moan about how we let our vets like Lowe and Kent walk off without getting anything in return.

Yes it does. Winner of our division makes the playoffs.

And yes we have a chance against "powerhouses" like Boston, the Anals, or Cubs. The Marlins won the WS twice. It's baseball, everyone has a chance - you just need to get hot. Our team is good enough to beat anyone when running on all cylinders. We've had some flashes this season.

I know I'm crazy, but I like the idea of giving it a shot anytime the opportunity is there. Opportunities to play in October don't just come around every year. We need to STOP giving up on this year. Management isn't going to give up on this year yet, I can guarantee that.

BlueMouse
07-14-2008, 03:54 PM
310 Casper, can you apply to be the GM? Great ideas buddy. I would just say put DeWitt at second and LaRoche at 3rd.

Just FYI ... Casper is a guy who wanted us to sign Bonds in the offseason.

jlshand
07-14-2008, 04:48 PM
Makes a lot of sense but...
1. don't think you can send a veteran like Dru to the minors without his consent.
2. isn't our real issue run production at third base as it has been there since Beltre left? And before that all along except for the Cey era?
3. if we had ,say Beltre back with his consistent 25/85 couldn't we trust a good defense, undeveloped hitting player like HU at short? At least till we see if Raffy can and will come back?

As an aside I wonder why there is so much resentment directed at Beltre from Dodger fans? Somebody actually called him crap!!!! I guess because he carried us his big season but hasnt hit 48 HR's again. Kind of like what we have been getting for the last five years at the position??/
I realize he disappointed a lot of us by going for the $'s after one great season but is that so different from what others are doing in the big bucks days of major league ball? Do you think that Russell Martin refused an early long term contract with us because he and his agent see no big buck opportunity with some other club out there?
I'm really just curious because
1. Seattle is fire selling,
2.we have no proven production at 3b (whether or not La roache has had a fair chance}
3, Beltre is still only 29 and would be good for 5 years
4. Even at 260 BA he gives 25/90 which no one except jeff Kent has given the team for years
5. he is great with the glove
6. we wouldnt have to give up a Kemp or Eithier for him.
7. we wouldnt need to overpay for a possibly unneeded shortstop now and could wait to see what happens with furcals recovery
8. We could move Andruw to the bench permanently (if we dont give up Eithier or Kemp for yet another outfielder we don't need} Maybe sitting on the bench will embarass Dru into agreeing to a slightly cheaper buyout of his remaining 1/1/2 years ( I know ,fat chance but does the man have ANY pride?}
9. A lineup with Beltre in the fifth slot would offer power production and protection for the third and fourth slot hitters
10. we could send DeWitt down to learn 2b and then replace Kent when he retires this season.
11. If we dont sell the store for a journeyman Shortstop like, UGH Jack Wilson this season and have to replace Furcal next year, maybe there will be some better talent available.

Please somebody tell me why this doesnt make sense , aside from still holding a grudge cause Beltre left. Matt Holiday??? Why would we give up Kemp plus other talent to add to our outfield dilemma? After all we are still stuck with the real issues , the lard *** from Atlanta and Pierre a fine player who doesn't fit our needs and never did.

matt holiday also has a suspicious batting record outside of Coors field. dUMB dUMB dUMB

G2BOAT
07-14-2008, 04:55 PM
Dude, we're playing in the worst division in baseball. The leader of our division is under .500 lol, pathetic. Just because we are 1 game out does not mean anything. Do you honestly think we have a chance agains powerhouses like Boston, Angels, Cubs, etc..? If so, I'd like to know what you are smoking.

We win our division, yay! That means we get to play 4 more games in October and then whine and moan about how we let our vets like Lowe and Kent walk off without getting anything in return.

I agree with most of your points from your last post, but I wanted to point out that we can beat the Cubs. Every game we played this year against, all of them have been close. So If we do make the Playoffs and we play them, I would feel good about playing them.

310Casper
07-14-2008, 04:56 PM
Just FYI ... Casper is a guy who wanted us to sign Bonds in the offseason.

Wow, creepy.

you remember that thread? That was like...over 6 months ago.

*looks over shoulder in fear of creepymouse*

LAdiablo
07-14-2008, 07:35 PM
Sitting down Ethier and Kemp is not only gonna make the season worse, but it's gonna make the future worse as well, impeding their development. We need to go the Giants route, like they are currently doing post-Barry era.

If i were the FO, I'd do the following, effective immediate today.
1) Send Jones to the minor leagues for the rest of the 2nd half, and get him a shrink. perhaps he can return to his form next season.
2) Play Kemp, Ethier and Young as our everyday outfielders until Pierre is back form the DL, then platoon Pierre and Young. Let Kemp strikeout a billion times, until he's blue in the face. Only way to break out of a slump is to keep failing until you succeed. Let these kids play their hearts out, let them make errors, let them learn.
3) Play DeWitt at 3rd and LaRoche at 2nd all season long. Keep nomar at SS until his body breaks down again.
3) Trade Lowe for some young talent asap, before the trade deadline.
4) Trade Kent to an AL team competing for a ring before this trade deadline, he makes a good 1b, 2b and DH hitter for many AL teams trying to win it all. We wont get much for him, but perhaps some teams prospect relievers.
5) If we win our division this way, great. If we dont, great. It wouldn't matter anyway, since we stand no chance in hel1 of winning it all anyway,.
6) Offseason, sign Odawg and CC.
7) Fire Ned, make White Gm.
8) Watch the rest unfold.

you seem to have encapsulated most all of my sentiments exactly. the only thing i disagree on is trading kent. you would not get much for him and in his case let him either retire a dodger or resign in the AL next year. just a class thing to do.
the only thing i would have added was trading saito, and to think i was called crazy for asking for that. too late now.
face it we are pretenders. pretty good ones but no chance to advance.
i will remain optimistic and attend another 10 games regardless hoping for the best

BlueMouse
07-14-2008, 07:39 PM
Wow, creepy.

you remember that thread? That was like...over 6 months ago.

*looks over shoulder in fear of creepymouse*

I tend to remember a lot of stuff, my Santa Monican Friendly Ghost pal :smoking: ... but a Dodger fan who wants Barroids in blue ... well, that really stands out.

lukemccain
07-15-2008, 12:58 AM
Why is it okay to let Kemp strike out a billion times to play out of a slump but not okay for Jones to do the same? I can't believe this guy is washed up at such a young age. I have a feeling that he will get a lot better during the 2nd half, especially with Mattingly on board.

N.Z's #1 Dodger
07-15-2008, 01:15 AM
It doesn't matter if the leader of our division is under .500, if we make the playoffs, anything can happen from there. We have beaten both the Cubs and the Angels. Thing I've learned the hard way gambling on baseball, nothing is a certainty, there is no real safe bet.

I'm not willing to do ALL of what Casper suggests, such as dropping/trading key personal before the trading deadline. But he did make some good points.

When we win this division, the slate is blank. It doesn't matter if we're 20 games under .500, there's is going to be some serious arse kicking going down dished out by us.

nme
07-15-2008, 02:12 AM
The more I think about it, the more nabbing Beltre seems like a good idea. His numbers the past few seasons are exactly what you want out a a 3B, as casper pointed out. and he can be had cheap. good points around casper, nice post.

dan1to
07-15-2008, 12:41 PM
Why is it okay to let Kemp strike out a billion times to play out of a slump but not okay for Jones to do the same? I can't believe this guy is washed up at such a young age. I have a feeling that he will get a lot better during the 2nd half, especially with Mattingly on board.
From your keyboard to God's ears.

Mattingly can change this team. Hopefully he starts with Jones and Kemp.

The more I think about it, the more nabbing Beltre seems like a good idea. His numbers the past few seasons are exactly what you want out a a 3B, as casper pointed out. and he can be had cheap. good points around casper, nice post.

I cant believe another person who thinks Beltre is a good idea? Whats going on in here? I would rather stick with DeWitt and LaRoche than have Beltre and his salary here.

Tymathee
07-15-2008, 12:50 PM
omg people actually want Beltre back? No, no no no no! lol

nme
07-15-2008, 01:25 PM
Take a look at Beltre's numbers for 2006-7 and tell me you don't wish we had that kind of production from third base since he left.

Maybe LaRoche needs more of a chance to show what he's got, but it's become pretty clear that he's not getting that chance here. I say he's more valuable as trade bait for something else we may need.

I love DeWitt as much as the next guy and what he did for us early this season was incredible. However, he seems to need some more time in the minors to figure some things out, and I say that if we send him down, teach him to play 2B so that he can replace Kent for us next season.

Point is, I know Beltre left a sour taste here, but he's 29, a great defensive 3B, and a consistent 25/90 type of guy. I didn't like the idea much early on, but he's one of the few power options for us that won't cost an arm and a leg in prospects/"kids".

dan1to
07-15-2008, 02:13 PM
nme...
seriously how much do we have to break it down.

At 13.4 Million a year... NO, i dont want that production. (He averaged .265 with 94 RBI's and 25 HR.)

Thats basically Andre Ethier (given regular playing time) with 7 more HR's and a .025 drop in average for 13 million more.