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thatcubsfan
07-12-2008, 04:32 PM
Probably going to get lots of negative feedback from this since the game is still going on. But why was Lou so reluctant to take out marmol. There was no reason to keep him in this long.

Anyway time for the main topic, is it just me or does Lou Piniella always seem to wait so long to take out his starting pitchers?

captainatheism
07-12-2008, 04:33 PM
It's actually the opposite with SP, relievers are a whole other story. Terrible, terrible BP management today.

redwhitenblue
07-12-2008, 04:34 PM
Probably going to get lots of negative feedback from this since the game is still going on. But why was Lou so reluctant to take out marmol. There was no reason to keep him in this long.

Anyway time for the main topic, is it just me or does Lou Piniella always seem to wait so long to take out his starting pitchers?
Because, Lou, sucks


This has been said all year, a lot of last year, but he still gets praise for a lot of awful awful decisions


It's not SP's or RP's in general, ti's pitcher by pitcher, he usually leaves CZ in for way too long-same with guys who are struggling, while pulling young guys early

WI Sports Fan
07-12-2008, 04:35 PM
Marmol was the 5th reliever he used today, so I'm sure that had a huge impact on the decision to ride him out.

redwhitenblue
07-12-2008, 04:43 PM
Marmol was the 5th reliever he used today, so I'm sure that had a huge impact on the decision to ride him out.
Yeah, Lou still has yet to learn that misusing the pen early=less pen later

Cotts for 1 guy sucked

thatcubsfan
07-12-2008, 04:46 PM
sorry i meant to say relief pitchers as well

Doogolas
07-12-2008, 05:20 PM
Yeah, Lou still has yet to learn that misusing the pen early=less pen later

Cotts for 1 guy sucked

The bullpen might be the only thing we'll ever agree on, but we agree on it a lot.

Cotts is better against righties than lefties anyway, so there was NO reason to take him out. Gaudin also could have gone 1.2 innings instead of just the 2/3 of an inning he went. I know he pitched more than one yesterday, but the ASB is coming up, and two days in a row of 1+ inning wouldn't have killed him.

Cotts splits:
Righties: .250 .294 .438 .732
Lefties: .269 .424 .423 .847

Wrigleyboy25
07-12-2008, 05:31 PM
Lou has done a fine job. Today was the exception.

Cubbie_since89
07-12-2008, 05:33 PM
This is the closest you all are gonna come to managing.

So get all of your hater comments out.

redwhitenblue
07-12-2008, 05:35 PM
This is the closest you all are gonna come to managing.

So get all of your hater comments out.
Except anyone who has coached baseball teams (preferably ones without their kids on it-because those "coaches" suck)
Lou has done a fine job. Today was the exception.
Why?
What has he done that has been so fine-he's made AWFUL decisions on call ups and demotions consistently, consistently fails in pitching decisions in games

Really the difference between Lou and any other manager is the stacked team he's given

dabears34ft
07-12-2008, 05:39 PM
last time I checked we are winning and lou is the manager of the best club in baseball. He is gonna take us to consecutive playoffs. He felt marmol could get one out. He couldnt and it cost us but we still won so who cares. People including me bashed edmonds and fonenot but they are both huge contributors lately for us. People bash Theriot and he is batting .320+. Lou's decision making has'nt been bad. Days like today happen in a 162 game season. but we are in first in the entire majors so stop complaining about everything.

redwhitenblue
07-12-2008, 05:39 PM
last time I checked we are winning and dusty is the manager of the best club in baseball. He is gonna take us to consecutive playoffs. He felt clement could get one out. He couldnt and it cost us but we still won so who cares. People including me bashed cpatt and agon but they are both huge contributor lately for us. People bash walker and he is batting .320+. Dusty's decision making has'nt been bad. Days like today happen in a 162 game season. but we are in first in the entire division so stop complaining about everything.
Hm...

Let me see if I can edit this ***** to make it look more deja-vuish


Edit: Yup, that worked...surprisingly that looks just like 2004

NORTH10
07-12-2008, 05:40 PM
Except anyone who has coached baseball teams (preferably ones without their kids on it-because those "coaches" suck)Why?
What has he done that has been so fine-he's made AWFUL decisions on call ups and demotions consistently, consistently fails in pitching decisions in games

Really the difference between Lou and any other manager is the stacked team he's given

theriot? fontenot? marmol? wood? soto?

without lou, there may be no marmol, there would be 0 theriot, and fontenot would probably be playing AAA ball, soto being called up and starting during the playoffs contributed to this successful year....lou has done a good job

who were we gonna bring in the ninth? no wood, marshall v righty= no, lieber lol...............there were NO options. maybe the break will help marmol but 20 games above .500 has to be somewat contributed to lou....get ur head out of ur ***

Wrigleyboy25
07-12-2008, 05:41 PM
Except anyone who has coached baseball teams (preferably ones without their kids on it-because those "coaches" suck)Why?
What has he done that has been so fine-he's made AWFUL decisions on call ups and demotions consistently, consistently fails in pitching decisions in games

Really the difference between Lou and any other manager is the stacked team he's given
No he doesn't. I think he's been a great in-game manager.

redwhitenblue
07-12-2008, 05:43 PM
If we didn't have Lou would we have killed Marmol and the others?

Soto raked all year last year while our ML catchers continued to put up one of the worst lines at that position in all of baseball, how was that a good decision?

We had many options, Lou wasted them early on though, that's where he went wrong


20 games above .500 is mostly attributed to the players Hendry put on this team, I don't know any manager that couldn't make this team so good in such a bad year in the NL

redwhitenblue
07-12-2008, 05:43 PM
No he doesn't. I think he's been a great in-game manager.
I'll differ in opinion with you

Today was filled with examples throughout

dabears34ft
07-12-2008, 05:43 PM
funny if it was up to the lou bashers in here Marmol would be the closer over wood so keep playing make believe manager in your heads.

dabears34ft
07-12-2008, 05:48 PM
If we didn't have Lou would we have killed Marmol and the others?

Soto raked all year last year while our ML catchers continued to put up one of the worst lines at that position in all of baseball, how was that a good decision?

We had many options, Lou wasted them early on though, that's where he went wrong


20 games above .500 is mostly attributed to the players Hendry put on this team, I don't know any manager that couldn't make this team so good in such a bad year in the NL

If you want an example of piss poor manager look no further than willie randolph. That team is the biggest under achieving team in baseball. 2 years straight. And hes gone and there right back in it.

dabears34ft
07-12-2008, 05:49 PM
If lou was that bad trust me we wouldnt have the best record in baseball period.

3Fingers
07-12-2008, 05:49 PM
funny if it was up to the lou bashers in here Marmol would be the closer over wood so keep playing make believe manager in your heads.
Careful now. You're making sense.

redwhitenblue
07-12-2008, 05:50 PM
funny if it was up to the lou bashers in here Marmol would be the closer over wood so keep playing make believe manager in your heads.
:laugh2:
Seriously, if you think you're correct, you need help...I was the biggest opponent of Marmol closing this offseason
If you want an example of piss poor manager look no further than willie randolph. That team is the biggest under achieving team in baseball. 2 years straight. And hes gone and there right back in it.They sure aren't playing well, but that's also because some of the players are sucking it up

3Fingers
07-12-2008, 05:59 PM
Except anyone who has coached baseball teams (preferably ones without their kids on it-because those "coaches" suck)
Now wait a minute ...

You won't let anybody use their playing experience as grounds for baseball knowledge. Now you're saying that being a Little League manager qualifies you for guruship?

Right.

giventofly
07-12-2008, 05:59 PM
funny if it was up to the lou bashers in here Marmol would be the closer over wood so keep playing make believe manager in your heads.
Maybe you should start thinking before posting...

Max Power
07-12-2008, 06:00 PM
Lou has to be given some credit for the comlpete organizational adjustemt in approach to work th count and draw walks. Well complete except for Felix Pie, of course.
People tend to only remember the situations where players crawl into the corner and go into the fetal postion when asked to make adjustments as opposed to the other 80% of the team who used minor, common sense adjustments to their advantage.

giventofly
07-12-2008, 06:00 PM
Now wait a minute ...

You won't let anybody use their playing experience as grounds for baseball knowledge. Now you're saying that being a Little League manager qualifies you for guruship?

Right.
The poster said posting on PSD is the closest that they'll come to managing in the MLB.

And that is how RWB responded...

redwhitenblue
07-12-2008, 06:03 PM
Now wait a minute ...

You won't let anybody use their playing experience as grounds for baseball knowledge. Now you're saying that being a Little League manager qualifies you for guruship?

Right.
Who said that

I simply said saying the closest we'll ever get is talking on here is wrong

And playing experience lends nothing to baseball knowledge...saying "I played at XXX level" does not mean you understand the game at all
Lou has to be given some credit for the comlpete organizational adjustemt in approach to work th count and draw walks.Perry

Max Power
07-12-2008, 06:05 PM
And who brought in Perry and for what reason?

diehard4ever
07-12-2008, 06:18 PM
Lou has done a fine job. Some on here think they know more about baseball and the players on the Cubs than Lou,coaches,and upper management. Stop kidding yourself. Lou has more experience in baseball than some of you are years old. He has also been successful at it. What is your resume?

redwhitenblue
07-12-2008, 06:25 PM
Lou has done a fine job. Some on here think they know more about baseball and the players on the Cubs than Lou,coaches,and upper management. Stop kidding yourself. Lou has more experience in baseball than some of you are years old. He has also been successful at it. What is your resume?
Baseball now is different from baseball when Lou played, or the first decade when Lou managed even...it's not comparable

Max Power
07-12-2008, 06:27 PM
And one of the major changes is the acceptance of OBP, and Lou is way behind the times in accepting that.


Oh wait, no he's not.

Doogolas
07-12-2008, 06:38 PM
funny if it was up to the lou bashers in here Marmol would be the closer over wood so keep playing make believe manager in your heads.

Um... not many people that bash Lou want Marmol as closer, because closer is as overrated as Tom Brady!

If anyone's wondering, I could throw 26 TD passes to Randy Moss, the man is simply a beast.

redwhitenblue
07-12-2008, 06:53 PM
And one of the major changes is the acceptance of OBP, and Lou is way behind the times in accepting that.


Oh wait, no he's not.
Hard to say, he did bat Theriot in the top two most of last year, that seems like being pretty behind the times in accepting it


He's come around a bit this year-perhaps due to the personal observation of this team

NORTH10
07-12-2008, 07:18 PM
Hard to say, he did bat Theriot in the top two most of last year, that seems like being pretty behind the times in accepting it


He's come around a bit this year-perhaps due to the personal observation of this team

lol, u just dont understand the job lou can do, a team can have all the talent in the world, but if u dont have the right guy to run them..it doesnt work out for, example, willy randolph this year....

redwhitenblue
07-12-2008, 07:24 PM
lol, u just dont understand the job lou can do, a team can have all the talent in the world, but if u dont have the right guy to run them..it doesnt work out for, example, willy randolph this year....
Randolph doesn't have all the talent, Pedro's been injured, their BP is iffy at best, their stars are aging (Delgado, Alou, Castillo) and their young guys had iffy starts, blaming Randolph for their lack of production when he hasnt' changed anything from previous years is a little more than ridiculous

diehard4ever
07-12-2008, 07:49 PM
Randolph doesn't have all the talent, Pedro's been injured, their BP is iffy at best, their stars are aging (Delgado, Alou, Castillo) and their young guys had iffy starts, blaming Randolph for their lack of production when he hasnt' changed anything from previous years is a little more than ridiculous

as ridiculous as saying Lou is not a good manager and not knowing more about baseball than you do

redwhitenblue
07-12-2008, 07:49 PM
as ridiculos as saying Lou is not a good manager and not knowing more about baseball than you do
Lou is as good a manager as about 80% of the other managers

Very few are better than the average, very few are worse than the average

diehard4ever
07-12-2008, 08:01 PM
How would you rate the managers? Dont need the whole list just top 5 or so in each league.

diehard4ever
07-12-2008, 08:02 PM
IMOLou is in top 5.

redwhitenblue
07-12-2008, 08:02 PM
How would you rate the managers? Dont need the whole list just top 5 or so in each league.
I don't think there are even 5 in each league that seperate themselves, that would total 1/3 of the managers and I think outside of a select few at the top and a select few at the bottom-the middle makes up almost all of the managers

diehard4ever
07-12-2008, 08:04 PM
Who are the select few then

diehard4ever
07-12-2008, 08:05 PM
So dusty or Ned Yost would have as many wins with this team

redwhitenblue
07-12-2008, 08:08 PM
So dusty or Ned Yost would have as many wins with this team
Dusty very well might, there is little way to go drastically wrong with this team


Cox is my best of the best selection

Doogolas
07-12-2008, 08:09 PM
So dusty or Ned Yost would have as many wins with this team

Dusty probably wouldn't, the man hates young people(More than Lou) and he doesn't like walks. And I don't know much about Ned Yost...

Bobby Cox is a great manager... Um, I'd say Girardi is above average, and my mind is blanking on others... but there are a couple more... I'd say the A's have a pretty good manager...

diehard4ever
07-12-2008, 08:12 PM
I agree Cox is probably the best. But I feel Lou is better than you give him credit for. Although I stand stand him Larussa is pretty damn good also

diehard4ever
07-12-2008, 08:15 PM
Girardi has only managed 1.5 seasons and has not proven anything to me yet. I know he won manager of the year but Im not sure he deserved it. The Marlins finished below 500.

Doogolas
07-12-2008, 08:15 PM
I agree Cox is probably the best. But I feel Lou is better than you give him credit for. Although I stand stand him Larussa is pretty damn good also

I think Lou is good at some stuff, and bad at some stuff. *shrugs* I like Lou's personality, though as a manager he's not amazing.

captainatheism
07-12-2008, 09:07 PM
Girardi has only managed 1.5 seasons and has not proven anything to me yet. I know he won manager of the year but Im not sure he deserved it. The Marlins finished below 500.

You know where they were supposed to finish? I respect Girardi cause he gives the young guys a chance and isn't a stubborn idiot, but some of the lineups he puts out (Ie, cano at the top of the order) are head scratchers.

TLR is pretty good. Jon Maddon in Tampa does a pretty good job from what i've seen, dave trembley's not too bad either. I don't follow other teams that much so it's hard for me to really get a good feel for all the managers.

Pelican
07-12-2008, 09:33 PM
Personally I think Marmol just has a dead arm and time off should done him good. My problem with the pitching is Jason Marquis; still not sold on that guy even though he did well in his last start. Ted Lilly is a big question mark as well. Sometimes it looks like BP when he's up there.
I have no doubts about this team making the post season but We're gonna need Big Z, Dempster, and a healthy Harden once the post season begins because the 4 or 5 spots in that rotation offer the most hope for opponents.

Doogolas
07-12-2008, 09:56 PM
Personally I think Marmol just has a dead arm and time off should done him good. My problem with the pitching is Jason Marquis; still not sold on that guy even though he did well in his last start. Ted Lilly is a big question mark as well. Sometimes it looks like BP when he's up there.
I have no doubts about this team making the post season but We're gonna need Big Z, Dempster, and a healthy Harden once the post season begins because the 4 or 5 spots in that rotation offer the most hope for opponents.

I would certainly hope so!

NYMetros
07-13-2008, 07:49 PM
Um... not many people that bash Lou want Marmol as closer, because closer is as overrated as Tom Brady!

If anyone's wondering, I could throw 26 TD passes to Randy Moss, the man is simply a beast.

I suppose you could also throw 28 tds to Deion Branch and David Givens as well?:rolleyes:

WOwolfOL
07-13-2008, 11:50 PM
So there are like 4 good managers in all of baseball...

NORTH10
07-14-2008, 01:06 AM
Personally I think Marmol just has a dead arm and time off should done him good. My problem with the pitching is Jason Marquis; still not sold on that guy even though he did well in his last start. Ted Lilly is a big question mark as well. Sometimes it looks like BP when he's up there.
I have no doubts about this team making the post season but We're gonna need Big Z, Dempster, and a healthy Harden once the post season begins because the 4 or 5 spots in that rotation offer the most hope for opponents.

man, i wish i could throw 94 with a dead arm lol........its all mental right now, confidence will do him good, 80% of baseball is all mental, the cockier, the better