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baseball mart
07-12-2008, 01:43 PM
The Houston Astros and Drayton are MLB's version of the Arizona Cardinals. The only reason Drayton has them is for financial benefit. They are in the 80 million range in salary which puts them in the middle of the pack. Drayton thinks "rebuilding" is a four letter word. While he continues to put a sub par team on the field, he continues to raise ticket prices for series such as the Red Sox and the Yankess as well as raising concessions every year.

Below are top to bottom examples of this years organization while as long as he is the owner, the Astros will never be considered as one of the elite:

1. General Manager Ed Wade - Drayton had the chance to hire one of the hot young assistants from teams knows to have excellent farms such as Oakland, Arizona, Cleveland, etc. Instead he hires a puppet again.

2. Tal Smith President - Honestly, what has he done except help run off one of the best GM's in baseball who has done nothing but turn around one of the biggest jokes in baseball the Tampa Bay Devil..uhh I mean Rays.

3. Cecil Cooper Coach - Too many to list here but for example, giving Wigginton the green light to steal when we are down one run against the Yankees. Also, running out those silly Sunday lineups that Garner was known for.

4. Pitching - Drayton has been guy shy to spend money on pitching since he signed Drabek and Swindell. Instead, he insists on taking what he thinks is the "safe" route in waiting until March every year and picking up scraps nobody else wants.

5. Catcher - Brad Ausmus (should have gone into coaching three years ago) JR Towles (again, cheap route) Quintero (no other choice)

6. First Base - I would sound like a fool if I said anything bad about The Big Puma but I will discuss more on him later.

7. Second Base - 5+ mil a year for anal issues when he could have spent the money on pitching.

8. Short Stop - Take a look at the stats on Luke Scott compared to Tejada this year not to mention we gave up good young arms.

9. Third Base - Lamb could have done just as good of a job being a stiff and we could have kept Wheeler also.

10. Left Field - He might as well be playing on skates out there. Drayton probably figured he needed something to push the payroll over Pittsburgh and Florida range.

11. Center Field - Ummm, do I really need to say anything at all here.

12. Right Field - One of the corner stones that they need to keep which I will discuss again later.

13. Bench - hmmm Cruz and Abercrombie to backup a 200 hitting center fielder.

14. Relief - running out Villareal to throw batting practice every game.

15. Farm System - to damn cheap again to even sign a 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounder last year. To scared to draft one of the highly regarded pitchers that were on the board because of signing issues this year.

The only logical thing to do now is to tear down and rebuild. The only "untouchable" should be Pence for youth reasons. No other team in baseball refuses to rebuild like Drayton. Even though Oswalt is injured, pitching is coveted every off season more than anything and the farm system could get a huge boost by trading him. It's not like our pitching is going to improve in the next few years anyways with Drayton's spending practices. Carlos Lee also needs to be sent elsewhere. So what if they have to pick up half his salary, we still get more prospects and possibly an everyday player. How many teams would covet an actual triple crown threat? Yes this means even trade the Puma. The Astros are not going anywhere with the core they have now. Do they even have a core?

sep11ie
07-12-2008, 03:34 PM
You should check that payroll again homie. They were in the W.S. like 3 years ago. And he wants to win, he's just a bonehead when it comes to baseball moves.

sep11ie
07-12-2008, 03:37 PM
And we've already DFA's Ambercrombie and Villereal. You are way too dumb to post such a long thread.

baseball mart
07-12-2008, 05:38 PM
Please check your research before replying to my posts.

1. New York Yankees $209,081,579 $6,744,567
2. Detroit Tigers $138,685,197 $4,622,840
3. New York Mets $138,293,378 $4,609,779
4. Boston Red Sox $133,440,037 $4,765,716
5. Chicago White Sox $121,152,667 $4,487,136
6. Los Angeles Angels $119,216,333 $4,110,908
7. Chicago Cubs $118,595,833 $4,392,438
8. Los Angeles Dodgers $118,536,038 $4,233,430
9. Seattle Mariners $117,993,982 $4,538,230
10. Atlanta Braves $102,424,018 $3,414,134
11. St. Louis Cardinals $100,624,450 $3,049,226
12. Toronto Blue Jays $98,641,957 $3,522,927
13. Philadelphia Phillies $98,269,881 $3,388,617
14. Houston Astros $88,930,415 $3,293,719 (middle of the pack wouldn't ya think "homie")
15. Milwaukee Brewers $81,004,167 $2,793,247
16. Cleveland Indians $78,970,067 $3,037,310
17. San Francisco Giants $76,904,500 $2,651,879
18. Cincinnati Reds $74,277,695 $2,971,108
19. San Diego Padres $73,677,617 $2,376,697
20. Colorado Rockies $68,655,500 $2,640,596
21. Texas Rangers $68,239,551 $2,353,088
22. Baltimore Orioles $67,196,248 $2,099,883
23. Arizona Diamondbacks $66,202,713 $2,364,383
24. Minnesota Twins $62,182,767 $2,487,311
25. Kansas City Royals $58,245,500 $2,240,212
26. Washington Nationals $54,961,000 $1,895,207
27. Pittsburgh Pirates $49,365,283 $1,898,665
28. Oakland Athletics $47,967,126 $1,713,112
29. Tampa Bay Rays $43,820,598 $1,460,687
30. Florida Marlins $21,836,500 $661,712

and if you want to always live in he glory of getting swept three years ago go ahead because I certainly do not.

astroonthemove
07-12-2008, 11:07 PM
wow, that is what i call a good rebuttal!!! Where do you get those figures? Way too cool for me but I was interested to see the number of teams that spend far less than we do and yet play much better than we do. Thanks for the great data!!! Go Astros, hopefuly a different team in every way in 2009.

richardle9
07-14-2008, 12:30 AM
[QUOTE=baseball mart;5834149]Drayton thinks "rebuilding" is a four letter word. [QUOTE]

haha it not its actually ten letters hehe lmao rotfl lol stfu wtf wth ttyl

Agstro
07-14-2008, 02:55 PM
5. Catcher - Brad Ausmus (should have gone into coaching three years ago) JR Towles (again, cheap route) Quintero (no other choice)

7. Second Base - 5+ mil a year for anal issues when he could have spent the money on pitching.

9. Third Base - Lamb could have done just as good of a job being a stiff and we could have kept Wheeler also.

10. Left Field - He might as well be playing on skates out there. Drayton probably figured he needed something to push the payroll over Pittsburgh and Florida range.

11. Center Field - Ummm, do I really need to say anything at all here.

13. Bench - hmmm Cruz and Abercrombie to backup a 200 hitting center fielder.

14. Relief - running out Villareal to throw batting practice every game.

15. Farm System - to damn cheap again to even sign a 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounder last year. To scared to draft one of the highly regarded pitchers that were on the board because of signing issues this year.

The only logical thing to do now is to tear down and rebuild. The only "untouchable" should be Pence for youth reasons. No other team in baseball refuses to rebuild like Drayton. Even though Oswalt is injured, pitching is coveted every off season more than anything and the farm system could get a huge boost by trading him. It's not like our pitching is going to improve in the next few years anyways with Drayton's spending practices. Carlos Lee also needs to be sent elsewhere. So what if they have to pick up half his salary, we still get more prospects and possibly an everyday player. How many teams would covet an actual triple crown threat? Yes this means even trade the Puma. The Astros are not going anywhere with the core they have now. Do they even have a core?

While I agree with somethings you said you got some serious holes in your points.

5. How soon people forget. Towles torn it up at the end of last season rising quickly through the minor system. To many times I heard fans rip the Stros for holding off on prospects and waiting to long to bring them up (i.e. Burke). J.R. pasted the smell they brought him up like they were suppose to do. You can fault them if he was a bust. They were doing what you suggest building from within.

7. Ummm....what pitching...Clement, Wolf, Colon, or Prior.....there wasn't much out there, and what was crap. I actually appluaded the Stros for not overspending in this area because then we would have been in a worse situation then we are now. Pay 10+ mil a year for some chump for the next five years.

9. Wiggington is more versitile than Lamb as far as positions he could play but there offensive production is roughly the same. Wiggy brings more grit to the field I think. And while I liked Wheeler he totally melted down when ask to step into Lidge's role for a while. He needed a change of scenery and got to go back home to TB.

10. Defense Is not that great, but where would we be without him? The man is an RBI machine. AND HAS A NTC so he is going nowhere. He gave us a discount to come here remember?

11. What would you say if he was hitting .275 or so. Then the experiment would have been entirely different. I still think there is hope for Bourn.

13. Give credit where credit is due. Cruz and Abercrombie might have been a bust, but Blum, Erstad, and Loretta have been solid.

14. Again credit where credit is due. Villiareal sucks, but Wright, Brydeck, and Brocail were all solid additions.

15. Didn't have 1st or 2nd round picks last year because we signed to many high dollar free agents. This year we signed our 1st round pick and 1st round supplemental pick.

As trading Oswalt, Lee, and Berkman they all have no trade clauses. Oswalt is the only one that has hinted that he might waive it. The other two have no interest.

lilboytwister99
07-14-2008, 08:45 PM
[QUOTE=baseball mart;5834149]Drayton thinks "rebuilding" is a four letter word. [QUOTE]

haha it not its actually ten letters hehe lmao rotfl lol stfu wtf wth ttyl

your right, it is a 10 letter word..... perhaps what he meant by it is the following.... Drayton thinks "rebuilding" is a four letter word ----------> easy?


Easy is a four letter word, yet, rebuilding isnt "easy"...... thats for sure....

Just a thought though...... Uncle Drayton needs a serious dose of viagra and a 19 yr old dancer to set him straight..... hehehehe

astrosmaniac
07-16-2008, 03:20 PM
The Brewers, Diamondbacks, twins, rays, and marlins are thew teams that spend less than us that are acctually good.

The Brewers, Rays, Marlins, and to some extent, the diamondbacks/twins all sucked for the longest tim so that they could get tons of top 10 picks.

also kyle lohyse (sp?) who the cardinals signed after ST started, could have been had for the same price as matsui. id rather pay an extra $5 for a 10 win pitcher with a low 3 ERA, wouldnt you?

lawphin2
07-16-2008, 03:58 PM
The Brewers, Diamondbacks, twins, rays, and marlins are thew teams that spend less than us that are acctually good.

The Brewers, Rays, Marlins, and to some extent, the diamondbacks/twins all sucked for the longest tim so that they could get tons of top 10 picks.

also kyle lohyse (sp?) who the cardinals signed after ST started, could have been had for the same price as matsui. id rather pay an extra $5 for a 10 win pitcher with a low 3 ERA, wouldnt you?

so you knew Kyle Lohse was gonna be that good?

haha, i'm just messin with you

astrosmaniac
07-16-2008, 05:34 PM
no but im just saying ever pitcher out there wasnt trash and could have been had for cheap

its all good

Agstro
07-17-2008, 10:27 PM
so you knew Kyle Lohse was gonna be that good?

haha, i'm just messin with you

At the time we signed Matsui, Lohse was courting ten million a year multiyear offers. I think he even got one, but turned it down. Then the bottom of the pitching markrt dropped out, and he got stuck with the offer from the Cards. There was an ESPN article on at the beginning of the season. If I can find it I will post the link.

baseball mart
07-23-2008, 11:31 PM
Ok I do not think I am a gm/owner (far from it) but you guys have got to see this. Uncle Drayton is afraid of the 4 or 8 or whatever word it is...He needs to rebuild and that is it. Look at my first post and it will look more true now. It is time to cut bait and fish. We are in last place and we have players that people want.

Every since we went to the WS Uncle D thinks we can go on a 20 game streak again. ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Time to trade the guys and rebuild ie....Arizona, Brewers, Cleveland, Florida...etc

Please feel free to respond to me on this "homie"

baseball mart
07-24-2008, 12:35 AM
While I agree with somethings you said you got some serious holes in your points.

5. How soon people forget. Towles torn it up at the end of last season rising quickly through the minor system. To many times I heard fans rip the Stros for holding off on prospects and waiting to long to bring them up (i.e. Burke). J.R. pasted the smell they brought him up like they were suppose to do. You can fault them if he was a bust. They were doing what you suggest building from within.

7. Ummm....what pitching...Clement, Wolf, Colon, or Prior.....there wasn't much out there, and what was crap. I actually appluaded the Stros for not overspending in this area because then we would have been in a worse situation then we are now. Pay 10+ mil a year for some chump for the next five years.

9. Wiggington is more versitile than Lamb as far as positions he could play but there offensive production is roughly the same. Wiggy brings more grit to the field I think. And while I liked Wheeler he totally melted down when ask to step into Lidge's role for a while. He needed a change of scenery and got to go back home to TB.

10. Defense Is not that great, but where would we be without him? The man is an RBI machine. AND HAS A NTC so he is going nowhere. He gave us a discount to come here remember?

11. What would you say if he was hitting .275 or so. Then the experiment would have been entirely different. I still think there is hope for Bourn.

13. Give credit where credit is due. Cruz and Abercrombie might have been a bust, but Blum, Erstad, and Loretta have been solid.

14. Again credit where credit is due. Villiareal sucks, but Wright, Brydeck, and Brocail were all solid additions.

15. Didn't have 1st or 2nd round picks last year because we signed to many high dollar free agents. This year we signed our 1st round pick and 1st round supplemental pick.

As trading Oswalt, Lee, and Berkman they all have no trade clauses. Oswalt is the only one that has hinted that he might waive it. The other two have no interest.

First of all let me thank you for an intelligent response.

Towels. We had the chance to sign Molina but as you said...Towles did do well for 3 months last year and they were known for holding off on young talent getting to the majors so I give that to you.

Pitching. There was more out there but Uncle D is now afraid of Scott Boris because of the whole Betran deal.

Wiggington. You got me there...ba wig 271 lamb 229...hr wig 8 lamb 1 rbi wig 23 lamb 27....but....Wheeler era 2.34 hld 20 so 27 whip .94...

who on our staff has those numbers now?????

Carlos is the man defense or not.

Bourn for Lidge???? I know he was hated here but look at wagners stats compared to lidges when we shipped off wagner to the dirty apple

Erstad and Loretta have been solid (again....Loretta = trade bait)

As far as trading....Oswalt is willing.....you or I have never heard the wishes on the other two if offered.