PDA

View Full Version : Best Pitcher in the MLB?



bartlett2266
07-12-2008, 01:27 AM
Hands down Roy Halladay if he didnt play in Toronto and got national exposure you would have no doubt

Poncho_707
07-12-2008, 01:36 AM
ok..

FC_4_life
07-12-2008, 01:43 AM
Is this thread asking for thoughts on your pick or our own picks for best pitcher?

dmb
07-12-2008, 01:46 AM
I think NL aces are superiour to AL Aces.....just saying

Epic89
07-12-2008, 01:53 AM
Roy Halladay is the man; scary good

FriarFanatic
07-12-2008, 01:59 AM
after watching what roy halladat did tonight against the yankees i have to say he is is. he has more complete games than any team in the majors this year

Webslinger
07-12-2008, 02:02 AM
Clearly the best pitcher is the great Justin Duchscherer.

supermatt1331
07-12-2008, 02:03 AM
I think NL aces are superiour to AL Aces.....just saying

weird how when most "NL Aces" come over to the American League, they get rocked pretty hard. NL Pitching stats are clearly padded thanks to no DH. Almost guaranteed out every 9th batter, instead of facing a slugger like big papi, hafner, giambi, etc

oh and by the way, Halladay is definitely the best pitcher in baseball and he has been for 5 years. the only other person close is Johan Santana when hes healthy and dealing. This usually happens every year, Halladay will shutout the yankees and people mention his name finally, but then forget about him because he plays in Canada. If he was a yankee or red sock, he would be considered by far the best pitcher in the game.

Long live the doctor, #32!

goldglove212
07-12-2008, 02:05 AM
Brandon Webb

dmb
07-12-2008, 02:18 AM
weird how when most "NL Aces" come over to the American League, they get rocked pretty hard. NL Pitching stats are clearly padded thanks to no DH. Almost guaranteed out every 9th batter, instead of facing a slugger like big papi, hafner, giambi, etc

oh and by the way, Halladay is definitely the best pitcher in baseball and he has been for 5 years. the only other person close is Johan Santana when hes healthy and dealing. This usually happens every year, Halladay will shutout the yankees and people mention his name finally, but then forget about him because he plays in Canada. If he was a yankee or red sock, he would be considered by far the best pitcher in the game.

Long live the doctor, #32!
Funny how the Cubs smacked around the Red Sox in the interleague series.


right now the Red Sox w/o David Ortiz are just as good as any NL team, you can't depend too much on a slugger if he is constantly injured, that is why the NL doesn't depend on havin a designated hitter who is not used to defense or running the bases.


I highly doubt Zambrano, Webb, Peavy, and Maddux in his prime would have had less success in an AL uniform.

It is true that Josh Beckett in his first season with the Red Sox he lead the AL in home runs, and it's also true however that the last 10 years, the NL home run champs hit a total of 561 HR vs the AL 506...coming from a league full of DHs...

I actually talked to Joe Castellano about the DH and just about every baseball critic hates the AL DH rule

pacman16
07-12-2008, 02:22 AM
the doc easy

Talick
07-12-2008, 02:36 AM
ok..

Stop smoking the Giants Rotation and open your eyes!!
Nah but real talks...Halladay has been the most consistent and arguably (with Santana and Oswalt) the best pitcher in the major over the last several years.

Totally disregarding the win-loss records, which is really no base on which to judge a pitcher here are their compared stats.
...............IP........ERA.....SO...BB....HR...C G...H.....BAA
Halladay....146.1...2.71....121...21...10....6.... 125...229
Lee..........124.2...2.31....106...20.....5....1.. ..109...234

With 15 more strikeouts about 20 more innings pitched, the slight edge this season has to go to Halladay.


As for the last few seasons it is Brandon Webb.

supermatt1331
07-12-2008, 02:37 AM
Funny how the Cubs smacked around the Red Sox in the interleague series.


right now the Red Sox w/o David Ortiz are just as good as any NL team, you can't depend too much on a slugger if he is constantly injured, that is why the NL doesn't depend on havin a designated hitter who is not used to defense or running the bases.


I highly doubt Zambrano, Webb, Peavy, and Maddux in his prime would have had less success in an AL uniform.

It is true that Josh Beckett in his first season with the Red Sox he lead the AL in home runs, and it's also true however that the last 10 years, the NL home run champs hit a total of 561 HR vs the AL 506...coming from a league full of DHs...

I actually talked to Joe Castellano about the DH and just about every baseball critic hates the AL DH rule

Whether people like the DH rule or not isnt the issue here. The issue is whether AL Pitchers would fair better in the NL then NL Pitchers would in the AL. I think its quite clear. NL Pitchers stats are inflated and thus when moving into the American League, their stats tend to become worse.

Regarding the DH rule, I think its much better than a pitcher taking AB's. A pitchers job is to do just that, pitch, not hit. The last thing i would want is to have my staff ace go down with a leg injury or get hit on the hand by a pitch and miss 4-8 weeks. Its just pointless. Let the hitters do their thing and let the pitchers do theirs. Honestly, does anyone find a pitchers sac bunt to be as exciting as a skilled hitter battling a skilled pitcher? I didnt think so.

rriders9
07-12-2008, 02:39 AM
Its hard to argue against Halladay

dmb
07-12-2008, 02:39 AM
Whether people like the DH rule or not isnt the issue here. The issue is whether AL Pitchers would fair better in the NL then NL Pitchers would in the AL. I think its quite clear. NL Pitchers stats are inflated and thus when moving into the American League, their stats tend to become worse.

Regarding the DH rule, I think its much better than a pitcher taking AB's. A pitchers job is to do just that, pitch, not hit. The last thing i would want is to have my staff ace go down with a leg injury or get hit on the hand by a pitch and miss 4-8 weeks. Its just pointless. Let the hitters do their thing and let the pitchers do theirs. Honestly, does anyone find a pitchers sac bunt to be as exciting as a skilled hitter battling a skilled pitcher? I didnt think so.
you are contradicting yourself however, a pitcher pitches 1-2 a week, where a DH plays just about everyday, and when your DH is out...he is out everyday...


so the AL takes it harder when their DH is out on injury....sorry but NL wins the debate here

supermatt1331
07-12-2008, 02:45 AM
Stop smoking the Giants Rotation and open your eyes!!
Nah but real talks...Halladay has been the most consistent and arguably (with Santana and Oswalt) the best pitcher in the major over the last several years.

Totally disregarding the win-loss records, which is really no base on which to judge a pitcher here are their compared stats.
...............IP........ERA.....SO...BB....HR...C G...H.....BAA
Halladay....146.1...2.71....121...21...10....6.... 125...229
Lee..........124.2...2.31....106...20.....5....1.. ..109...234

With 15 more strikeouts about 20 more innings pitched, the slight edge this season has to go to Halladay.


As for the last few seasons it is Brandon Webb.

7 complete games in 19 starts. No other team combined has 7 complete games. The doc is a master of the craft and man i cant wait until i can see him play in a playoff game. it would be too intense.

Cliff Lee cannot be considered in the conversation of best pitcher in the bigs. His track record does not support his production this year. Do not be surprized to see some regression in the 2nd half. I imagine his ERA will finish around 3.30 and his W-L record will become less flattering. My guess is he'll finish around 17-7.

The finalists for best starters are:

Halladay
J Santana
Webb
Oswalt
Peavy

The doc has my vote.

Talick
07-12-2008, 02:47 AM
you are contradicting yourself however, a pitcher pitches 1-2 a week, where a DH plays just about everyday, and when your DH is out...he is out everyday...


so the AL takes it harder when their DH is out on injury....sorry but NL wins the debate here

A batting position is an easier slot to fill efficiently and effectively IMO than a Pitching slot. Just think about it...who, universally, is prized more by teams a solid DH or a solid Starting Pitcher?

supermatt1331
07-12-2008, 02:47 AM
you are contradicting yourself however, a pitcher pitches 1-2 a week, where a DH plays just about everyday, and when your DH is out...he is out everyday...


so the AL takes it harder when their DH is out on injury....sorry but NL wins the debate here

A good team usually has enough hitting to get them by for a few weeks while their DH recovers...(i.e Big Papi in beantown and Pena in TB). A #1 starting pitcher is much harder to replace than a DH. I highly doubt anyone can disagree with that statement.

supermatt1331
07-12-2008, 02:48 AM
A batting position is an easier slot to fill efficiently and effectively IMO than a Pitching slot.

great minds think alike ^

dmb
07-12-2008, 02:49 AM
A batting position is an easier slot to fill efficiently and effectively IMO than a Pitching slot.
like I said it's hard to debate since you have an everyday player vs a 1-2 a week player....it would be hard for the Cardinals to go all season w/o Pujols than it would be w/o Carpenter, they are already without Carpenter and still deliver

dmb
07-12-2008, 02:50 AM
A good team usually has enough hitting to get them by for a few weeks while their DH recovers...(i.e Big Papi in beantown and Pena in TB). A #1 starting pitcher is much harder to replace than a DH. I highly doubt anyone can disagree with that statement.
usually works out pretty nice in the World Series when your DH can only play a couple games unless you sacrifice your 1B most of the time

supermatt1331
07-12-2008, 02:52 AM
like I said it's hard to debate since you have an everyday player vs a 1-2 a week player....it would be hard for the Cardinals to go all season w/o Pujols than it would be w/o Carpenter, they are already without Carpenter and still deliver

you cant use an NL team as part of your arguement. Were assuming that the DH rule is in effect to prevent pitchers from getting hurt, which i argued is worse for a team than the DH getting hurt. Pujols is not a fair arguement. The cards, due to lack of DH, are a weaker hitting team because theyre not in the AL, so obviously they will be more affected if they lost Pujols rather than Carpenter.

dmb
07-12-2008, 02:54 AM
you cant use an NL team as part of your arguement. Were assuming that the DH rule is in effect to prevent pitchers from getting hurt, which i argued is worse for a team than the DH getting hurt. Pujols is not a fair arguement. The cards, due to lack of DH, are a weaker hitting team because theyre not in the AL, so obviously they will be more affected if they lost Pujols rather than Carpenter.
no, the DH rule is in effect for when Prince Fielder, Adam Dunn, and Ryan Howard get even fatter and can no longer run they will still have spots in the AL as designated bats

supermatt1331
07-12-2008, 02:56 AM
usually works out pretty nice in the World Series when your DH can only play a couple games unless you sacrifice your 1B most of the time

well it seems the NL can never win home field advantage anyways, so the DH gets to play at least 4 games in a 7 game series. Not to mention pinch hitting, etc.

AL has won 7 of the last 10 world series, seems the DH is working just fine

supermatt1331
07-12-2008, 02:57 AM
no, the DH rule is in effect for when Prince Fielder, Adam Dunn, and Ryan Howard get even fatter and can no longer run they will still have spots in the AL as designated bats

Adam Dunn is actually a great athlete and has quick feet. I dont even see how you could call him fat. Research before making scouting reports.

METS4LIFE1988
07-12-2008, 02:57 AM
Mike Pelfrey.

dmb
07-12-2008, 02:58 AM
well it seems the NL can never win home field advantage anyways, so the DH gets to play at least 4 games in a 7 game series. Not to mention pinch hitting, etc.

AL has won 7 of the last 10 world series, seems the DH is working just fine
just for the Yankees and Red Sox apparently

dmb
07-12-2008, 02:58 AM
Adam Dunn is actually a great athlete and has quick feet. I dont even see how you could call him fat. Research before making scouting reports.
I dunno scout reports show he is pretty bad out in LF, I heard about an hour of reports of him today on XM so ya...

and he does have a good arm, as a former quarterback of course he can play LF for that aspect, but he's clumsy on line drives to LF, he is actually very fast, second to Deion Sanders, however just about every scouting report shows he still can't field for ****

supermatt1331
07-12-2008, 03:03 AM
I dunno scout reports show he is pretty bad out in LF, I heard about an hour of reports of him today on XM so ya...

and he does have a good arm, as a former quarterback of course he can play LF for that aspect, but he's clumsy on line drives to LF

that doesnt mean hes fat or cant run, he just may be a subpar outfielder. Im usually not too concerned about the defense from LF. Its by far the least important OF position. As long as he hits 40 Hrs and drives in 100 runs, ill take sub-par defense in LF

dmb
07-12-2008, 03:04 AM
that doesnt mean hes fat or cant run, he just may be a subpar outfielder. Im usually not too concerned about the defense from LF. Its by far the least important OF position. As long as he hits 40 Hrs and drives in 100 runs, ill take sub-par defense in LF
sup-par defence where most hitters hit the ball? you have to got be kidding me

supermatt1331
07-12-2008, 03:07 AM
sup-par defence where most hitters hit the ball? you have to got be kidding me

hmmmm look around the league and do you notice that the teams worst outfielder is always placed in LF. its a known fact. RF and CF are much more important fielding positions.

Left handed hitters get more hits and hit for a higher batting average. A RF is more likely to play an out then the LF. Common sense

HighVelocity
07-12-2008, 03:09 AM
For me it's between Johan Santana and Roy Halladay. They've been the most consistent pitchers over the last 5+ years. But if I had to take one it would be Halladay. Many think that Santana is the better pitcher (which he may very well be), but if you look at this years stats the majority would take Halladay. Regarding this year I would still have to go with Halladay.

supermatt1331
07-12-2008, 03:12 AM
For me it's between Johan Santana and Roy Halladay. They've been the most consistent pitchers over the last 5+ years. But if I had to take one it would be Halladay. Many think that Santana is the better pitcher (which he may very well be), but if you look at this years stats the majority would take Halladay. Regarding this year I would still have to go with Halladay.

Ya its definitely a two-horse race for this distinction

dmb
07-12-2008, 03:12 AM
hmmmm look around the league and do you notice that the teams worst outfielder is always placed in LF. its a known fact. RF and CF are much more important fielding positions.

Left handed hitters get more hits and hit for a higher batting average. A RF is more likely to play an out then the LF. Common sense
maybe out in Canaday or the AL, but to say that Soriano, Ryan Braun, Matt Holliday, Pat Burrell, and even Scott Hairston are the worst outfielders of their clubs is saying a lot

supermatt1331
07-12-2008, 03:16 AM
maybe out in Canaday or the AL, but to say that Soriano, Ryan Braun, Matt Holliday, Pat Burrell, and even Scott Hairston are the worst outfielders of their clubs is saying a lot

Soriano is not a great fielder at all and Ryan Braun is even worse. Where do you get your wisdom?

And Canaday? is that a joke or a typo? I would really hope the latter.

PhillyUD26
07-12-2008, 03:30 AM
Dan Haren

supermatt1331
07-12-2008, 03:32 AM
Dan Haren

meh, going to take more than one solid season to get him on this list

dmb
07-12-2008, 03:52 AM
Soriano is not a great fielder at all and Ryan Braun is even worse. Where do you get your wisdom?

And Canaday? is that a joke or a typo? I would really hope the latter.
what is Canada?

PhillyUD26
07-12-2008, 03:54 AM
meh, going to take more than one solid season to get him on this list

Haha he's got 4 very solid seasons, and now he's absolutely dominating.

ThunderRoad75
07-12-2008, 04:11 AM
my vote gos to tim lincecum. if you go head to head with halladay. lincecum wins in every stat with the exception of 1 less win i realieze hes in NL but everytime he takes the mound he can not allow more then 2 runs if he wants the win cause of the Giants gutless offence

bleedsREDforevr
07-12-2008, 08:17 AM
Hands down Roy Halladay if he didnt play in Toronto and got national exposure you would have no doubt

Really???? If you're talking about this year then you need to include Justin Duchscherer, Cliff Lee, Edison Volquez, Jake Peavy and Johan Santana. I don't believe Halladay is "hands down" the best pitcher in MLB. If you are talking over an extended period of time, than Johan Santana is your winner.

blujaysrock
07-12-2008, 08:19 AM
Halladay, no doubt about it

North Yorker
07-12-2008, 08:19 AM
It's Halladay. End of conversation.

His 11-6 record is scewed by two 1-0 CG losses so he could easily be 13-4 and plus he left a game because he was hit in the head with a come backer and then the pen came in and couldnt strand the runner he left on.

He also has the 10th worse run support in the majors. If he was playing on even a decent/average hitting team his record would be 14-3 or 15-3. He alos has 7 complete games!!! and 2 CG shutouts. There is no contest as he's done it over his entire career ever since he threw a one hitter vs the Tigers in his rookie season.

bleedsREDforevr
07-12-2008, 08:51 AM
Justin Duchscherer also pitched a CG shutout and has an ERA of 1.78 in comparison to Halladays 2.71. Also, Justin Duchscherer has started 15 games and 14 of those starts had 2 earned runs or less(his other start he held ATL to 3 earned runs)Halladay has 20 starts with 8 of those with 3 earned runs or more. The whip comparison is .86 to 1.00(both remarkable, but Duchscherer still tops out) Sure, Halladay could be 14-3 or 15-3, but Duchscherer could be 15-0 or 14-1 for that matter. If the argument is "Who is the best pitcher right now from the start of the season", It has to be Justin Duchscherer!!!!

IndiansFan337
07-12-2008, 08:58 AM
Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, Justin Duchscherer, & Edinson Volquez.

SHONIE
07-12-2008, 09:21 AM
Dice K :rolleyes:

Neely
07-12-2008, 09:45 AM
My pick is Roy Halladay with Tim Wakefield coming in as a close second. Joking about the Wakefield part.

blujaysrock
07-12-2008, 09:53 AM
It's Halladay. End of conversation.

His 11-6 record is scewed by two 1-0 CG losses so he could easily be 13-4 and plus he left a game because he was hit in the head with a come backer and then the pen came in and couldnt strand the runner he left on.

He also has the 10th worse run support in the majors. If he was playing on even a decent/average hitting team his record would be 14-3 or 15-3. He alos has 7 complete games!!! and 2 CG shutouts. There is no contest as he's done it over his entire career ever since he threw a one hitter vs the Tigers in his rookie season.

plus he 2 hit that yanks, that don't happen everyday

Sixersfan41
07-12-2008, 10:09 AM
yea I agree with Halladay

FriarFanatic
07-12-2008, 10:47 AM
he is crazy this year and every year for the past while

PhillyUD26
07-12-2008, 10:51 AM
Whats up with all these Canadians coming out of the woodwork? I like Halladay, but there are some other VERY solid pitchers out there.

SeoulBeatz
07-12-2008, 10:57 AM
COLE HAMELS!

homer time

torontocubs
07-12-2008, 11:28 AM
This thread is absolutely out of control. I have never read so many dumb posts my entire time at PSD. We have people mentioning Justin Dus(I am not even going to attempt to spell his name) as the best pitcher in the MLB???? Seriously. There is a level of respect and honour to a distinction like that. I mean these must have been the same people drooling over the thought that Johnny Cueto may be the next Cy Young, and I don't mean just the award.

Edinson Volquez and Cliff Lee and Justin D are all pitching great seasons, but until any of them show any form of consistency over a few years in there career than you can't start throwing out titles of best pitcher.

DMB - I think that is your name, please read something intelligent before you quote sources and make arguments. NL Aces better than AL Aces, there is not one baseball mind in the majors that would agree with you and your 34 posts. Plain and simple, and I am not sure how your argument got so off topic, the AL is a far harder league to pitch in, for the fact that there is a position in the lineup that a pitcher has to pitch against, who's job is solely to hit the ball. As for the worst stat you possibly brought up trying to prove the NL is tougher, was that they have more HRs over a certain period of time. Ever think that might have to do with the fact that the pitching is worse... I don't want to go down the list of names, but mysteriously happens that Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, Pujols all feasted off of NL pitching. And this myth that the DH position is just fat ***** who hit home runs, David Eckstein was hitting lead off and playing DH for the Jays the other day.

And just to finish of my Rant on how stupid these posts are, and specifically the uninformed Kosuke worshiper, LF NOT BEING THE EASIEST??????? RYAN BRAUN, ALFONSO SORIANO.... These guys were both infielders that were so crappy at their positions, that they had to move them out to the OF because first base was taken on each of their respective teams. LF is the natural progression to first base in terms of poor defence.


As for my answer to this thread. Roy Halladay is hands down the best pitcher in the majors. Not Johan, Not Webb, No-one comes close to the dominance that Halladay possesses. I know people keep mentioning that if he was in a bigger market it would be so much different. I really just don't think people grasp how good he really is. People don't understand if you don't watch him mow down Jeter, Abreu and A-rod on 6 pitches. I am so happy I have had the privilege to watch him pitch in Toronto throughout his years. He is a legend already made and people are just starting to realize it.

viktor06
07-12-2008, 11:44 AM
quote torontocubs : blablabla, you're all idiots, roy halladay is the best because I say so, blablabla

good job homer

Neely
07-12-2008, 11:56 AM
Whats up with all these Canadians coming out of the woodwork? I like Halladay, but there are some other VERY solid pitchers out there.

Stick Halladay on the Phillies, and if he still pitches the way he does now he'd still be my choice. I didn't choose him because I'm Canadian. He doesn't even play for my favourite team. 'Twas not a homer pick.

FriarFanatic
07-12-2008, 12:03 PM
me either im a padres fan but you gotta give respect to the best when they deserve it and halladay is the best without a doubt

torontocubs
07-12-2008, 12:04 PM
quote torontocubs : blablabla, you're all idiots, roy halladay is the best because I say so, blablabla

good job homer

Do they play baseball in the Czech Republic. Have you ever seen a baseball. New plan, go and enjoy watching Jagr play in Russia. Halladay is the best. And I am a Cubs fan not a Jays fan. Keep your pointless comments to yourself unless you can bring forth an intelligent argument, on civil terms, that can explain to me why Halladay isn't the best.

viktor06
07-12-2008, 12:11 PM
Do they play baseball in the Czech Republic. Have you ever seen a baseball. New plan, go and enjoy watching Jagr play in Russia. Halladay is the best. And I am a Cubs fan not a Jays fan. Keep your pointless comments to yourself unless you can bring forth an intelligent argument, on civil terms, that can explain to me why Halladay isn't the best.

Why don't you explain why he is? You made the statement. I see at least 5 pitchers who have better numbers this year and at least 2 who have better numbers in the last few years.

Besides, I've seen you claim you are more a Toronto fan on another thread (concerning low and high market teams), not that it's relevant in the discussion.

supermatt1331
07-12-2008, 02:35 PM
This thread is absolutely out of control. I have never read so many dumb posts my entire time at PSD. We have people mentioning Justin Dus(I am not even going to attempt to spell his name) as the best pitcher in the MLB???? Seriously. There is a level of respect and honour to a distinction like that. I mean these must have been the same people drooling over the thought that Johnny Cueto may be the next Cy Young, and I don't mean just the award.

Edinson Volquez and Cliff Lee and Justin D are all pitching great seasons, but until any of them show any form of consistency over a few years in there career than you can't start throwing out titles of best pitcher.

DMB - I think that is your name, please read something intelligent before you quote sources and make arguments. NL Aces better than AL Aces, there is not one baseball mind in the majors that would agree with you and your 34 posts. Plain and simple, and I am not sure how your argument got so off topic, the AL is a far harder league to pitch in, for the fact that there is a position in the lineup that a pitcher has to pitch against, who's job is solely to hit the ball. As for the worst stat you possibly brought up trying to prove the NL is tougher, was that they have more HRs over a certain period of time. Ever think that might have to do with the fact that the pitching is worse... I don't want to go down the list of names, but mysteriously happens that Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, Pujols all feasted off of NL pitching. And this myth that the DH position is just fat ***** who hit home runs, David Eckstein was hitting lead off and playing DH for the Jays the other day.

And just to finish of my Rant on how stupid these posts are, and specifically the uninformed Kosuke worshiper, LF NOT BEING THE EASIEST??????? RYAN BRAUN, ALFONSO SORIANO.... These guys were both infielders that were so crappy at their positions, that they had to move them out to the OF because first base was taken on each of their respective teams. LF is the natural progression to first base in terms of poor defence.


As for my answer to this thread. Roy Halladay is hands down the best pitcher in the majors. Not Johan, Not Webb, No-one comes close to the dominance that Halladay possesses. I know people keep mentioning that if he was in a bigger market it would be so much different. I really just don't think people grasp how good he really is. People don't understand if you don't watch him mow down Jeter, Abreu and A-rod on 6 pitches. I am so happy I have had the privilege to watch him pitch in Toronto throughout his years. He is a legend already made and people are just starting to realize it.

I couldnt say it any better myself, great post

sanfranfan1210
07-12-2008, 03:16 PM
Halladay easy

bartoron
07-12-2008, 04:27 PM
maybe out in Canaday or the AL, but to say that Soriano, Ryan Braun, Matt Holliday, Pat Burrell, and even Scott Hairston are the worst outfielders of their clubs is saying a lot

Fielding-wise some of those players aren't that good. Soriano has improved in the outfield the past few years, but he's still a little below average. Pat Burrell has never been that good at fielding in previous years and is prone to not making fairly easy catches.

tomno00
07-12-2008, 04:47 PM
noah lowry no doubt

quiksilver2491
07-12-2008, 05:09 PM
Without a second thought it is Brandon Webb.

JHG722
07-12-2008, 05:23 PM
Timothy Matthew Lincecain

THS_Yankee3
07-12-2008, 05:30 PM
Wang of the Yankees is. If he wasnt hurt the Yankees would only be 2 and a half out rather then 6 and a half

jcs88
07-12-2008, 05:47 PM
I would say it's still Santana, with Halladay and Webb not far behind him. To me, greatness comes with being consistently dominant over a long period of time. And who else has been as good over such a long period of time as Santana has been? Every year he's been great: 4 straight years of 230+ K's, way fewer hits than IP, and very low ERA's. And he could easily dominate in the second half this year; historically he's a great 2nd half pitcher. I admit I think he's slowly on the decline, but until he stops putting up great numbers I have to say he's the best in the game.

And the W-L record has nothing to do with it. This isn't about the most valuable pitcher, it's about the best pitcher, so in general wins and losses should be thrown out the window.

dabears34ft
07-12-2008, 05:53 PM
Lincecum will be the most dominating pitcher for years to come. Halladay is blessed with the most stamina in baseball. But if it was on freakish ability I'd say Tiny Tim for sure

dabears34ft
07-12-2008, 05:58 PM
Lincecum
Halladay
Santana
Webb
Beckett
Zambrano
If healthy I could put Sheets and Harden right on this list but they are to injury prone.
Best winners are Halladay and Webb
Best over all talent Lincecum, Santana, Sheets, Harden

In_Ned_I_Trust
07-12-2008, 05:59 PM
Jake Peavy, I would give up every paycheck for the rest of my life for that guy.

BTW I don't care what the stats are I know he's good.

dabears34ft
07-12-2008, 06:01 PM
yeah defn. meant to have Peavy on that list

JHG722
07-12-2008, 06:02 PM
yeah defn. meant to have Peavy on that list

I guess Hamels is trash, then :shrug:

dabears34ft
07-12-2008, 06:04 PM
Hamels is good I just think those guys are a litte better. You cant list every good pitcher. I would just trust these guys on any given night a little more than hamels.

dabears34ft
07-12-2008, 06:05 PM
i mean i can throw kazmir as well but he is another oft injured pitcher

JAYZFAN9
07-12-2008, 06:08 PM
Jake Peavy, I would give up every paycheck for the rest of my life for that guy.
BTW I don't care what the stats are I know he's good.

ummm ok

Lady's Man
07-12-2008, 06:11 PM
mike hampton

CardzRule
07-12-2008, 06:12 PM
Roy Halladay, and if he weren't injured, Chris Carpenter. Both are 8-9 inning guys that you can count on to make a solid start every time out. Complete games and shut-outs. Key strikeouts. Double play balls, just get the guy out the best way in each situation.

Adam Wainwright has showed flashes of that kind of capability as well.

bomber0104
07-12-2008, 06:13 PM
Lincecum will be the most dominating pitcher for years to come. Halladay is blessed with the most stamina in baseball. But if it was on freakish ability I'd say Tiny Tim for sure

You have obviously never seen Halladay pitch. It has nothing to do with stamina. Its not like he goes out there and throws 130 pitches every game. The great thing about Halladay is that he pitches to contact and is not worried about piling up the strikeouts.

He only threw about 115 against the Yankees yesterday and that could easily have been 110 if not for Abreu fouling off 10 pitches in 9th.

bomber0104
07-12-2008, 06:14 PM
Roy Halladay, and if he weren't injured, Chris Carpenter. Both are 8-9 inning guys that you can count on to make a solid start every time out. Complete games and shut-outs. Key strikeouts. Double play balls, just get the guy out the best way in each situation.

Adam Wainwright has showed flashes of that kind of capability as well.

Totally agreed and I do think that Wainwright is of the same clone.

thedfactor
07-12-2008, 06:27 PM
everyday's a halladay when roy's pitchin, but im goin with tim

Tragedy
07-12-2008, 07:50 PM
Brandon Webb, Johan Santana, Cole Hamels, Tim Lincecum, Roy Halladay.

In_Ned_I_Trust
07-13-2008, 12:51 AM
ummm ok

Come to the NL and have him OWN your team every time out. Peavy is the most underrated ACE in baseball.

In_Ned_I_Trust
07-13-2008, 12:53 AM
Damn double post

JAYZFAN9
07-13-2008, 12:58 AM
Come to the NL and have him OWN your team every time out. Peavy is the most underrated ACE in baseball.

Take it easy fella. The 'ummm ok ' was in response to your paycheck remark. (which I still dont quite understand btw)

In_Ned_I_Trust
07-13-2008, 01:01 AM
Take it easy fella. The 'ummm ok ' was in response to your paycheck remark. (which I still dont quite understand btw)

LOL I like Jake Peavy I think he's nails is all, btw meant no disrespect.

cwilson21
07-13-2008, 01:12 AM
I'll take Santana and Halladay as the top 2 in this discussion. Though I do think Webb and Peavy are great pitchers, I can't help but think that their numbers (as well as other NL starters) are skewed from pitching against weaker teams, softer lineups, and other opposing pitchers.

JAYZFAN9
07-13-2008, 01:20 AM
LOL I like Jake Peavy I think he's nails is all, btw meant no disrespect.

All good man

Ya peavy is sick no question

LAcowBOMBER
07-13-2008, 02:33 AM
As a Yankee fan who has watched Halladay over they years I would have to say Halladay.

But the maker of this thread should have put some type of definition with "best." I mean Lee and Lincecum have better numbers right now, but I would pick Halladay because when I think of the best I think over a period of at least 3-5 years

Kruk_N_Kuip
07-13-2008, 04:55 AM
Halladay and webb are the most consistent and the best when they go out there. santana and a healthy harden come close.