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View Full Version : Ryno Vs. Morgan



MorganFearsRyno
07-12-2008, 12:11 AM
Since Joe Morgan seems to think he is so Superior to Ryne Sandberg, lets compare numbers.

Sandberg
Games: 2164
Hits: 2386
Runs: 1318
HR: 282
RBI: 1061
TB: 3787
AVE: 285
OBP: 344
SLG: 452
Fielding Percentage: 989
All in 16 Years.
-----------------------------
10x All-Star selection
9x Gold Glove Award winner
7x Silver Slugger Award winner
1984 NL MVP
1990 Home Run Derby winner
Chicago Cubs #23 retired
-----------------------------

Morgan
Games: 2649
Hits: 2517
Runs: 1650
HR: 268
RBI: 1133
TB: 3962
AVE: 271
OBP: 392
SLG: 427
Fielding Percentage: 981
all in 21 Years
-------------------------
10x All-Star selection
2x World Series champion
2x NL MVP
1972 MLB All-Star Game MVP
1982 NL Comeback Player of the Year
Cincinnati Reds #8 retired
------------------------
For some reason Joe Morgan Feels like,
Ryno doesn't deserve to be in the HOF.
Based on What? Why does Morgan belong?
because he was on a Dynasty Team?
Is it Sandberg's fault he wasn't a part of a Dynasty??

quiksilver2491
07-12-2008, 12:28 AM
Sorry man, Morgan was clearly a much better player than Ryne Sandberg. Sandberg was good but I don't know if he is HOF worthy, he leans more on the side of not making it.

MorganFearsRyno
07-12-2008, 12:43 AM
How?

He has better stats, with 5 less years in the bigs.

EXPLAIN TO ME!!

Buckwheat
07-12-2008, 02:16 AM
How?

He has better stats, with 5 less years in the bigs.

EXPLAIN TO ME!!

It's all in the OBP

Humongo
07-12-2008, 03:11 AM
132 OPS+ vs. 114 OPS+

689 SB vs. 344

Morgan was clearly the better leadoff hitter.

And for what it's worth, Sandberg kinda sucked on the road (.738 career OPS). Morgan had at least an 800 OPS at home and on the road.

JAYZFAN9
07-12-2008, 01:13 PM
Humongo pretty much covered it in the previous post

FriarFanatic
07-12-2008, 01:19 PM
morgan is simply better

sanfranfan1210
07-12-2008, 03:41 PM
Morgan

redwhitenblue
07-12-2008, 05:21 PM
132 OPS+ vs. 114 OPS+

689 SB vs. 344

Morgan was clearly the better leadoff hitter.

And for what it's worth, Sandberg kinda sucked on the road (.738 career OPS). Morgan had at least an 800 OPS at home and on the road.
SB's mean nothing without associated %'s

And one being a better leadoff hitter doesn't make him better in general...but I agree Morgan was better-not by much though

quiksilver2491
07-12-2008, 05:31 PM
SB's mean nothing without associated %'s

And one being a better leadoff hitter doesn't make him better in general...but I agree Morgan was better-not by much though

Morgan was better by enough to clearly distinguish who the better player was. Morgan was a lock for the hall while Sandberg falls short IMO.

PhillyLuver
07-12-2008, 06:50 PM
Joseph Morgan wins.

kingsfan15
07-13-2008, 09:34 PM
i hate to say it, morgan was the better player, sucks as an announcer tho:mad:

bagwell368
07-13-2008, 10:01 PM
Raw numbers does a disservice to Morgan. Remember he played in Houston which in the 60's which is along with LA at the same time the worst hitting enviornment since the dawn of the live ball. Stats such as OPS+ have to used, and raw stats looked at with suspicion.

Morgan:

11 times 130 OPS+ or better (6 times over 145)
14 times .370 OBP or better
5 GG (probably overstates his value)
2 MVP
689 SB vs. 162 CS (the best of any player with over 100 SB all time I believe)

Ryno

6 times 130 OBP+ or better (1 at/over 145)
2 times .370 or better (whoa he got mashed here)
9 GG (he was better)
1 MVP
344 SB to 107 CS

So, Morgan had a longer and better career, a much steeper peak, was a much better on base man, and was better at stealing bases and not being caught.

Oh yeah on 2047 less PA then Morgan, Ryne hit into 139 GDP to Morgans 105.

I'll give you the glove.

Verdict: Joe Morgan the best 2B of all time, Ryne about #6-7-8 hardly chopped liver, but clearly not in the same league.

I actually saw Morgan play for Houston and also his sidekick Jim Wynn. If Wynn got out of Houston when Morgan did, and didn't get stabbed in the gut, he would have been a better player then Morgan - he was in Houston.

BigBruceRogers
07-15-2008, 11:27 PM
Joe Morgan is such a tool... a crappy announcer and Cubs hater. A guy who feels he is the best and nobody else deserves notice. Yes, he was better than Ryno but they played in different eras and atmospheres. You cannot compare statistics and numbers in a vacuum - you must take in the situational context.

Still, Morgan was a great 2B despite how much I dislike him... but so was Ryno! They just aren't far enough apart for Morgan to give Ryno the snob treatment. What a classless jerk.

quiksilver2491
07-16-2008, 02:53 AM
Verdict: Joe Morgan the best 2B of all time, Ryne about #6-7-8 hardly chopped liver, but clearly not in the same league.

I actually saw Morgan play for Houston and also his sidekick Jim Wynn. If Wynn got out of Houston when Morgan did, and didn't get stabbed in the gut, he would have been a better player then Morgan - he was in Houston.

I think Rogers Hornsby is turning in his grave at that statement ;)

ugafan
07-16-2008, 03:13 AM
I think Rogers Hornsby is turning in his grave at that statement ;)

Yeah, Morgan was really good, but better than Hornsby? :rolleyes:

Degz
07-16-2008, 04:06 PM
Both are HOFers in my book. Morgan was the better player though.

bagwell368
07-16-2008, 09:17 PM
I think Rogers Hornsby is turning in his grave at that statement ;)

we had I believe a friendly disagreement on this before:

to recap for the innocent:

Hornsby was one of the worst teammates of all time (he peed in the showers despite being asked over and over not too - among other selfish stunts). He played in an era with less competition then Morgan. He was average w/ the glove, not a very good base runner either. Whereas Morgan did win 5 GG's, was I believe the best percentage base stealer of all time. And was not an AHole (as a teammate, forget his announcing antics).

Also no matter what adjustments you make, playing in the NL (63-68) and Houston from (63-71) will kill your totals and averages. Whereas Hornsby played in the all time best decade of hitting ever that was 1921-1931 in the weaker league. Morgan also played in the better league at the time - and that pushed his adjusted totals down a bit too.

The orginal point was who is better, and believe me, Morgan is a good deal better then Ryno.

The Morgan v Hornsby argument is more difficult, but there is not mistaking the lack of black and latino players in Hornsby's time.

BTW, Bill James who usually takes offense over everything has the all time top 10 list in 2001 as:

Joe Morgan
Eddie Collins
Rogers Hornsby
Jackie Robinson
Craig Biggio
Nap Lajoie (I think James has him too high)
Ryno
Charlie Gehringer
Rod Carew
Roberto Alomar