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MinnesotaTiger
07-10-2008, 06:06 PM
I have been quiet lately. Todd Jones needs to go! if it wasn't for a stellar play by Guillen yesterday (?) and a walk off by Cabrera earlier in the month, Jones' stats would be worse than they already are...his ERA is enormous for a reliever, the only WHIP that is worse is Joe Borowskis. His batting average against may be over .300 now!!! The loss to Minnesota is huge, we needed to take at least three of the games to make up ground. Instead Jones comes in and we all say, "Hey, he gets the job done." Why has he led a charmed life? He is Jason Grilli in a closer role; showing flashes of brilliance, but usually stinks. The team cannot feel confident when he is out there. Trade him now, his contract is up at the end of the year anyway...dump him!!!

smarkow
07-10-2008, 07:42 PM
I can tell you they are not going to trade him. First off, b/c they won't and second, b/c who the hell will take him?

Losing today was really bad. At the same time, it wasnt just Jones. Minn scored a run in the 7th, a run in the 8th, and 2 in the 9th (which included a horrible error by Joyce). Take that error away and you have guys on 1st and 2nd. what happens there, i don't know. but that error played a major role in this loss. so did the fact that Joyce couldnt lay a freaking bunt down in the ninth, and the next guy, whoever it was, couldnt hit a fly ball to the outfield. THis game still could have been won, as bad as Jones pitched. We had guys on 1st and 2nd WITH NO OUTS and we couldnt get a run. Stan has complained numerous times that this team cannot manufacture runs. Well, today he was correct. When we needed a bunt, Joyce looked like he hadnt bunt in his entire life. I'm confident that i could have gone up there and gotten the ball on the ground. For god's sake, you've got to be able to put the ball on the ground!

All that said, Clete striking out looking to end the game was horrible. You need to protect the plate. There are two outs in the bottom of the 11th and you look at a curve ball to end the game. F-ing A.

They better come out tomorrow and pound the ball.

Zoomlander
07-10-2008, 07:50 PM
The only reason Jones is the closer still is because leyland loves his veterans way to much......if we want to be a good team we need at stopper.......Yanks have Rivera, SOx have J. paps and Laa have K-rod...........we need to go out and get someone from somewhere that can shut the door.........maybe zumaya can be the answer..........maybe its time to give him a shot?.........cause everytime we have a lead and jones comes in the game.........the games becomes winnable for the other team......its should be the other way around.

Epic89
07-10-2008, 11:44 PM
If the White Sox had won today (which I was falsely told did happen and I d*mn near scalped myself), I'd have probably given up on the Tigers again today.

There is absolutely no excuse for the Tigers not to at least make a serious run at Francisco Rodriguez this offseason. I honestly believe that if the Tigers want him, they can get him. The three traditionally big spenders are all set with their closers (Papelbon with the Sox, Mo with the Yanks, Wagner with the Mets), and this franchise needs to learn you need a lights out guy in the 9th not some washed up never-was who pounds the strike zone hoping it doesn't get hit 400 feet.

Mike Illitch is going to spend whatever he has to to make sure they win. If they don't, this era of Detroit Baseball will just go down as some pretty good teams that never put it together and won it all.

Bondomania
07-11-2008, 12:44 AM
agreed, either Perry gets pushed up to the front and we will never see what he could have been as a starter, or zumaya is going to get the job. Dolsi has been solid, but he isn't k'ing people out at an enormous rate, and he works behind a lot.. However, on another note, we do have a ton of guys that we drafted this year, that have college closing experience, and are BP arms, so maybe perry gets a shot at starting first...

chetlemon
07-11-2008, 11:02 AM
Just cannot afford to lose these games. I do hate Jones.....however, you can blame it on poor fundamentals that ruined it yesterday. Smarkow said it right, you need to be able to lay down a bunt. The bullpen blew it and young rookies blew it because of a lack of fundamentals. McClendon is maybe the one responsible for that batting but who is responsible for the fielding. Just as piss poor as the bad at bats. I think the chemistry is not right for success if success is defined as a division title and w.s. birth. It ain't going to happen if changes aren't made quick.

scottie
07-11-2008, 12:32 PM
Todd Jones is fine. Get off his back. He's not our problem. To compare him to Grilli is ****ing funny. Grilli couldn't even hold Todds glove. Don't forget what Jones has done here, especially when the other tigers pitchers were garbage. Oh and Rodney and Z., were hurt. The tigers as a team have not been very good this year. If you can't afford to have your closer pitch a bad game at the mid-way point of the season, then like I've said, you have not been verry good so far.

Stop thinking everytime the tigers put together a little run or a month of good baseball the're going to win the championship. Give the guys the credit the're do and hope they win when the others loose. Sometimes their going to get beat. Like they did last night.:cry:

MinnesotaTiger
07-11-2008, 02:13 PM
scottie-perhaps you are of the mindset, "Hey he has 300+ saves, he can't be that bad." But stats tell the tale. Jones' ERA and WHIP and BAA are some of the highest EVER for a closer with 200+ saves. You think Guillen, Cabrera etc. see Jones come into the game and don't say, "Oh no..." Do you know of anyone who jumps off the couch and yells, "Yes! They are putting Jones in the game!" The soft spoken, never insulting Ernie Harwell called Jones the human roller coaster. Its more than physical, its psychological, Jones instills zero confidence in his teamates, the fans or even the announcers; do you think this lack of confidence in the closer can negativley affect several games a year? I think so. Every time he saves a game I am surprised...there something wrong when it is surprising your closer gets a 1-2-3 inning in the 9th. I'd rather have a closer who is 32/35 in save opportunities, with a 2.50 era and a 093 WHIP and a .230 BAA, than a guy who saves 34/35 but causes the team to play tight, and causes the opponent to say, "We can hit this guy," because when a closer instills that mindset, teams loose games in other ways.

chetlemon
07-11-2008, 03:43 PM
Todd Jones sucks. Yeah he was good with the Tigs his first time around and I appreciate that. He sucks now. He almost lost a job in the majors until Florida gave him a chance. Yeah, Grilli couldn't hold his glove. Yeah the team has played bad. But scottie, Jones sucks. He can not save a game when it counts and when you have a 2 run game in the 9th and it matters, the closer should get a save. You also ignore that although they have played bad they are still in it and last night was a must win. I could give a rats *ss that they "have not been very good so far". They are still in it and as a fan I cannot stand to see Jones blow important games. You can't ever "afford" that in the Major Leagues.

IndiansFan337
07-11-2008, 03:57 PM
People have been saying this about Jones for awhile now, but the team seems afraid to change.

Zumaya's injuries the past two years have really forced them into retaining Jones because they have no other alternatives.

chetlemon
07-11-2008, 04:25 PM
Agreed. It is amazing that they spend millions of dollars on a "high profile" offense and missed the boat when we didn't sign a real closer. Rather have Soria and have kept Jurrjens and Hernandez.......but that is for another blog. Jones sucks.

theoldgoalie
07-11-2008, 05:52 PM
scottie-perhaps you are of the mindset, "Hey he has 300+ saves, he can't be that bad." But stats tell the tale. Jones' ERA and WHIP and BAA are some of the highest EVER for a closer with 200+ saves. You think Guillen, Cabrera etc. see Jones come into the game and don't say, "Oh no..." Do you know of anyone who jumps off the couch and yells, "Yes! They are putting Jones in the game!" The soft spoken, never insulting Ernie Harwell called Jones the human roller coaster. Its more than physical, its psychological, Jones instills zero confidence in his teamates, the fans or even the announcers; do you think this lack of confidence in the closer can negativley affect several games a year? I think so. Every time he saves a game I am surprised...there something wrong when it is surprising your closer gets a 1-2-3 inning in the 9th. I'd rather have a closer who is 32/35 in save opportunities, with a 2.50 era and a 093 WHIP and a .230 BAA, than a guy who saves 34/35 but causes the team to play tight, and causes the opponent to say, "We can hit this guy," because when a closer instills that mindset, teams loose games in other ways.

You just can't do this to the team or the fans over and over again! If Jones isn't giving up 2-3 runs an inning, he is getting guys out, but those outs are at the warning track or done via double plays because he gets hit (alot) or he walks guys. When you've got an ERA over 5.00 and you only pitch 1 inning a game (lately less), that means you are giving up on average over 2 runs every time you go out and pitch! Many times, we have a 3-4 run lead when he comes in only to win by one, or come back and win it at the bottom of the inning! If we are going to be champs, we have to put the right guys in place, no one should feel safe! There should constantly be competition unless you are tops at the position you are in and Jones ain't! We need a bulldog in the closers role, and Jones is not that bulldog anymore! Give the ball to Zumaya and see where it goes. With experience, I truly believe he will blow Jones away in the short term. He wants the ball and he is fearless. Put him in there Jimmy.....that's what we have him for!

One Nut Kruk
07-11-2008, 06:43 PM
If by some miracle we do end up making the playoffs, can you imagine being up on Boston by 2 runs in Fenway Park and Todd Jones comes in to close against Youkillis, Ramirez, Ortiz, Drew, Lowell, etc. Good night, game over, Red Sox win that one every time.

The closer is supposed to be a dominant power arm able to shut down the opposition to end the game. Here are some beauty stats to digest.

35.1 IP 5.09 ERA 1.58 WHIP .303 BAA 12 K 13 BB 43 Hits 2 IBB 3 HBP

Ok, the guy doesn't strike anybody out and he's allowed 61 goddamn baserunners in 35.1 IP. Not too mention the bullets that are hit right at people that save his azz.

Compare this to a real closer like Joe Nathan

37.7 IP 1.19 ERA 0.96 WHIP .200 BAA 42 K 9 BB 27 Hits 2 IBB 0 HBP

So, a guy that strikes out more than 1 an inning and has allowed 38 baserunners in just about 38 innings.

Or even compare him to an average to above average closer like BJ Ryan, who's having a "bad" season, as many Jays fans are all over him about his performance.

31 IP 2.90 ERA 1.29 WHIP .212 BAA 33 K 16 BB 24 Hits 2 IBB 1 HBP

So, he's allowed 43 baserunners in 31 innings but also has over a strike out an inning and good enough stuff to get out of jams without hoping the opponents hit it right at your players.

It's friggin amazing that this fat piece of crap still is employed by a Major League team. He gets lots of saves because he gets a lot of luck and pretty much always starts off the 9th with a 2 or 3 run lead. He rarely comes into an 8th inning jam with runners on and 1 or 2 outs to get a la K-Rod or Papelbon, which is why they blow more saves. Jones is a joke, plain and simple, and if you defend him, you are full blown ******** and don't know much about the game.

scottie
07-11-2008, 11:01 PM
Jones is not as bad as his stats of late indicate. He is not a strike out pitcher, he is a control pitcher. We have no one else and it is very hard to get a closer in a trade (better then Jones). All of the replacement canidates on the team are either Wild Zummaya, Rodney, Dolsi...ect. and are not reliable. Big Z is supposed to close, but he just got back from the DL. Jones is a winner, period. If your nervous when Jones comes in, thats your bad. I have a sigh of relief.

Oh yeah the tigers are in it everyone.... NOT they can't beat the Twins! They can't Win the WILD CARD and there is no way they're winning the division. And Todd Jones has little to do with that

The Tigers have assembled statically on of the best offensive lineups ever and THEY SUCK!!! Matt Joyce and other average players are looking better overall then the stars. I know its only the 1/2 way point, but I thought Hall of Famer Pudge would do something, Hall of Famer Sheffield would do someting, 2 time gold glove winner Rentaria, Silver sluggers Maggs and Palonco, All star Guillen would feed on opposing pitchers like sharks in water.

AND YOU GUYS COMPLAIN ABOUT TODD JONES.. TODD JONES IS THE LEAST OF OUR WORRIES:mad:

One Nut Kruk
07-12-2008, 05:15 PM
Jones is not as bad as his stats of late indicate. He is not a strike out pitcher, he is a control pitcher. We have no one else and it is very hard to get a closer in a trade (better then Jones). All of the replacement canidates on the team are either Wild Zummaya, Rodney, Dolsi...ect. and are not reliable. Big Z is supposed to close, but he just got back from the DL. Jones is a winner, period. If your nervous when Jones comes in, thats your bad. I have a sigh of relief.

Oh yeah the tigers are in it everyone.... NOT they can't beat the Twins! They can't Win the WILD CARD and there is no way they're winning the division. And Todd Jones has little to do with that

The Tigers have assembled statically on of the best offensive lineups ever and THEY SUCK!!! Matt Joyce and other average players are looking better overall then the stars. I know its only the 1/2 way point, but I thought Hall of Famer Pudge would do something, Hall of Famer Sheffield would do someting, 2 time gold glove winner Rentaria, Silver sluggers Maggs and Palonco, All star Guillen would feed on opposing pitchers like sharks in water.

AND YOU GUYS COMPLAIN ABOUT TODD JONES.. TODD JONES IS THE LEAST OF OUR WORRIES:mad:

You're right on that it's not just his fault where the Tigers are but that does not negate the fact that he's terrible.

He's not as bad as his stats of late indicate? What does that even mean? His stats indicate exactly how he is....brutal.

He's not a control artist, he's a "throw strikes and hope that the opposition hits it right at us" pitcher. He's like a slo-pitch pitcher for christ sake.

And we do have somebody else....anyone would do. Who cares if Zumaya just came off the DL, he should be in there to close out games. Jones is reliable my azz. He's the poster boy for why saves are useless.

A sigh of relief when Jones comes in? I feel sorry for you Mr. Jones. Quit defending your son...he sucks.

TheRedMarauder
07-12-2008, 05:42 PM
Manager Jim Leyland said Friday that he plans to reduce Todd Jones' workload.

"I'm going to back off him a little bit," said Leyland. "I'm just going to watch him closely and maybe start using somebody else a little bit from time to time." It's hard to tell what this means, other than that Jones won't be used as much in back-to-back games. We can guess that Fernando Rodney, Joel Zumaya, and Freddy Dolsi are in line for more saves, but who knows. Leyland could be just trying to quiet some critics who want Jones out of the closer's role.

rotoworld

One Nut Kruk
07-12-2008, 06:06 PM
God I hope that's the truth.

scottie
07-12-2008, 11:51 PM
One Nut---

I've read some of your posts and think a lot of what you post is good. What do you think we should do with sheff and Jones. No joke, what do you think we should really do?

Bondomania
07-13-2008, 01:13 AM
DFA sheff...
DFA Jones...

also, you say pudge hasn't done anything, he is only hitting .280 plus with 3 or 4 hr's.. that is pretty good considering he is a mid-30's catcher... i mean look at how brutal Varitek has been for Bos...

Zoomlander
07-13-2008, 01:16 AM
we can make Crazy moves in the off-season........so we should be able to do that right now...........nothing will happen though.........they will both be gone at the end of the year anyway........Leyland and managment will tease us till then.

If i had my way i would Designate them both at the same time...........then put zumaya as closer and bring up Rapada and just bring maggs of the DL for sheffs spot

Nikolishin
07-13-2008, 08:50 PM
zumaya is our closer

scottie
07-15-2008, 04:17 PM
zumaya is our closer

Todd jones is our closer

Dalionking
07-16-2008, 12:56 AM
tood jones sucks. i have never liked him and i hope he isnt here next year. the amount of base runners he allows is crazy for a closer. ole gas can jones needs to go so we can get someone else in there. i wouldnt be shocked to see dolsi in there

stanpapi
07-16-2008, 03:12 PM
I say roll the dice, give Zumaya the job for now, and trade Jones. We might not have re-signed him if Zumaya didn't hurt himself. Now Zumaya is back, seems to be okay, so deal Jones to a contender desperate for a closer for a good prospect or two.

smarkow
07-16-2008, 03:59 PM
I say roll the dice, give Zumaya the job for now, and trade Jones. We might not have re-signed him if Zumaya didn't hurt himself. Now Zumaya is back, seems to be okay, so deal Jones to a contender desperate for a closer for a good prospect or two.

Is there really a team that is willing to give up a prospect (or two) for Jones? And who might this contender be that is despearate for a closer?

Dalionking
07-17-2008, 11:24 AM
yeah hard to find a good team out there without a closer but a possibilty of finding someone to use him as a setup guy.
doesnt matter though cause leyland loves jones.

Dalionking
07-17-2008, 10:00 PM
gas can jones tried to light the fuse and blowup again tonight

smarkow
07-18-2008, 09:56 AM
Man, has he blown the save last night would have been just terrible. this guy is a heart attack waiting to happen. You can't tell me that any fan is happy when he comes in the game, or that any team is scared once he comes in the game. The other teams must be saying to themselves, "at least we got Jones coming in for the 9th inning."

scottie
07-19-2008, 10:32 PM
ZUMAYA, ON IN THE 9th TO CLOSE WITH A 1 RUN LEAD, FU*KING BAM! 1 PITCH LONG GONE. JONES IS THE BEST WE HAVE FOR NOW. LIVE WITH IT AND ROOT FOR HIM.

scottie
07-19-2008, 10:54 PM
And Dolsi Gets Rocked Too! So Much For Not Letting Jones Save Games.

scottie
07-19-2008, 11:15 PM
tood jones sucks. i have never liked him and i hope he isnt here next year. the amount of base runners he allows is crazy for a closer. ole gas can jones needs to go so we can get someone else in there. i wouldnt be shocked to see dolsi in there

I hope you saw dolsi get rocked tonight. 1-4 with a 7.something era.

One Nut Kruk
07-22-2008, 01:13 AM
ZUMAYA, ON IN THE 9th TO CLOSE WITH A 1 RUN LEAD, FU*KING BAM! 1 PITCH LONG GONE. JONES IS THE BEST WE HAVE FOR NOW. LIVE WITH IT AND ROOT FOR HIM.

Shut up. Zumaya got through the 8th unscathed and Hernandez turned on a 99 mph fastball up at his letters and hit it out in the 9th. Crap happens. It was BS luck. Jones probably would have given up 3 hits and 2 walks and lost the game right then and there. The fat prick would have blown Verlander's win if it wasn't for Inge the next day.

Zumaya is the best we got. If you think otherwise, like I've said before, then you're pretty much ********.