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View Full Version : It's only a mental recession!



KingJamsI
07-10-2008, 02:13 PM
Great news from the campaign trail.... it turns out, that even though we've lost hundreds of thousands of jobs, home are being foreclosed upon at a record pace and people are having to choose between putting food on the table, filling up the tank to get to work, and paying for prescription drugs- IT'S ALL IN OUR HEADS, AND WE SHOULD QUIT OUR *****IN!"

Senator John McCain's top economic advisor Phill Gramm-

"You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession... We have sort of become a nation of whiners...You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline' despite a major export boom that is the primary reason that growth continues in the economy."

With a "mental" recession, and a "psychologically" advantageous energy policy, i think its about time John McCain and his staff step out of dream world and into the real one where Americans have real problems and want real solutions.

blenderboy5
07-10-2008, 02:24 PM
The sad thing is this guy's 100% right.

We're one of the luckiest nations. Ever. It's not even funny how good we have it, even with the economic downturn.

But we're not in a recession. And we are a nation of whiners. So many Americans don't understand that you have to work hard for things, and people aren't just gonna hand you things. That's what's wrong with government handouts, they create whining populations.

PHX-SOXFAN
07-10-2008, 02:53 PM
this guy is 100% right?:confused: How is teatering on the fine line between recession and stagnant economy good exactly? In this current situation we are fractions of a percentage point away from officially being labeled a recession, aka McCain's worst nightmare. Of course he's going to throw out this bs being his infinitely wise economic adviser/former lobbyist/former senator who pimped nice legislation for mortgage companies, it's their livelihood to sell this BS.

on the other hand, the statistics are speaking for themselves, and the trends aren't changing. The speculation will soon be fact with a few more months of jobloss, foreclosures, rising gas prices, rising food prices, inflation, reduction in gdp, etc. They don't make up these stats out of thin air, or imagine them, we wish these trends and stats were "mental" and not true.

PHX-SOXFAN
07-10-2008, 02:58 PM
"we've become a nation of whiners"

this sounds like the type of soundbite that if it came from the other side, would be all over hannity and Rush.

I want this statement repeated over and over in the media for the next 4 months on par with how many times Hannity takes Michelle Obama's statements out of context along with the "clinging to guns and religion" statement that was spun way out of context.

Disputing economic trends and stats is humorous from this man and to play this card makes it even better.

PHX-SOXFAN
07-10-2008, 03:01 PM
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/07/10/gramm-us-has-become-nation-of-whiners/

Here's an article from foxnews on it. there's some great stuff in here:

Minutes later McCain disavowed the Gramm comments, saying, “We are experiencing enormous economic challenges as well as others. Phil Gramm does not speak for me. I speak for me. So I strongly disagree.”

Asked if Gramm might be in line for a job as treasury secretary, McCain joked: “I think Senator Gramm would be in serious consideration for ambassador to Belarus, although I am not sure that the citizens of Minsk would welcome that.”


just keep taking advice from this guy John:rolleyes:. Then maybe if you win you can appoint him to a position he isn't qualified for, wait, where have I heard that scenario before?:confused::speechless:

ari1013
07-10-2008, 03:58 PM
Well to their credit, a large portion of economic growth stems from expectations of the future. One way to boost the economy is to boost consumer confidence. There's nothing different between what McCain's crew is saying and what any other Republican presidential nominee has said any time there's been a recession. This is standard protocol.

JHG722
07-10-2008, 04:02 PM
Maybe foreclosures wouldn't happen if idiots bought houses they could afford?

PHX-SOXFAN
07-10-2008, 04:05 PM
Maybe foreclosures wouldn't happen if idiots bought houses they could afford?

that was a reason for the first wave. Now foreclosures are happening because of resetting interest rates and people not being able to refi due to loss in home value. that is the second wave. The third which is also underway is people walking away from homes that have lost a lot of value and are better off with a credit hit as opposed to paying into a black whole of a mortgage with no equity in sight.

It sounds simple when you just blame a borrower, but this is much more complex and the finger should be heavily pointed at the lenders for not allowing refinancing/loan modification in most situations to avoid foreclosure.

JHG722
07-10-2008, 04:18 PM
that was a reason for the first wave. Now foreclosures are happening because of resetting interest rates and people not being able to refi due to loss in home value. that is the second wave. The third which is also underway is people walking away from homes that have lost a lot of value and are better off with a credit hit as opposed to paying into a black whole of a mortgage with no equity in sight.

It sounds simple when you just blame a borrower, but this is much more complex and the finger should be heavily pointed at the lenders for not allowing refinancing/loan modification in most situations to avoid foreclosure.

Well all of that wouldn't matter if people paid off their mortgages, no?

WES445
07-10-2008, 04:18 PM
Some of these replies don't surprise me. As long they are doing good or not hurting, hey, everything is OK. It is those people problems.
I have a problem when rich politicans downplay average american's pain. I bet you they don't count their change at the gas pump or know the price of bread. The republicans should adopt Mad magzine's mascot Alfred E. Newman motto " What me worry?"

JHG722
07-10-2008, 04:23 PM
Some of these replies don't surprise me. As long they are doing good or not hurting, hey, everything is OK. It is those people problems.
I have a problem when rich politicans downplay average american's pain. I bet you they don't count their change at the gas pump or know the price of bread. The republicans should adopt Mad magzine's mascot Alfred E. Newman motto " What me worry?"

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't like that :shrug:

PHX-SOXFAN
07-10-2008, 04:37 PM
Well all of that wouldn't matter if people paid off their mortgages, no?

and they all would have been able to do so if they weren't given bs loans sold as legitimate ways to build equity

gcoll
07-10-2008, 08:38 PM
on par with how many times Hannity takes Michelle Obama's statements out of context along with the "clinging to guns and religion" statement that was spun way out of context.

How were those comments taken out of context?


I have a problem when rich politicans downplay average american's pain.
What about when they "up-play" that pain, and pretend to feel it as well?

I have a problem with politicians, period. Because most of them are not at all qualified to be commenting on what they are talking about. Yet, they get to actually make the decisions that affect it, because they are being voted in...by people who don't know what they're talking about.

blenderboy5
07-11-2008, 12:37 AM
Maybe foreclosures wouldn't happen if idiots bought houses they could afford?


and they all would have been able to do so if they weren't given bs loans sold as legitimate ways to build equity

Honestly, they're ****ing stupid. If they actually understood ****, it wouldn't have happened.

Now yes, it's not fair that businesses said "sure you can afford this" without saying "if you don't eat or heat your house," but they're still stupid.


How were those comments taken out of context?


I'd like to hear that too. It was pretty clear what he meant imo.

steelcityroller
07-11-2008, 04:41 AM
Well all of that wouldn't matter if people paid off their mortgages, no?

Im guessing the increased cost of basically everything from gas to groceries doesnt factor into that equation? Or people losing jobs? I know a guy that is currently trying to sell his home and his truck because he was just laid off from a company where he worked for +5 years making about $60k a year and now is working as a temp making $10/hour because thats all there is right now in this area. My sister went to a staffing agency about a week ago to apply for a job and she said that they told her they have people that have been waiting for 6-8 weeks for a job to come open.

DenButsu
07-11-2008, 05:12 AM
Obama's response:

"We already have one Dr. Phil. We don't need another one." (http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=1XlsZznzb5E&eurl=http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/)

ari1013
07-11-2008, 09:43 AM
Im guessing the increased cost of basically everything from gas to groceries doesnt factor into that equation? Or people losing jobs? I know a guy that is currently trying to sell his home and his truck because he was just laid off from a company where he worked for +5 years making about $60k a year and now is working as a temp making $10/hour because thats all there is right now in this area. My sister went to a staffing agency about a week ago to apply for a job and she said that they told her they have people that have been waiting for 6-8 weeks for a job to come open.
It's all in his head. He only thinks $10 an hour isn't enough to live on. Tell him to get with the times :rolleyes:

PHX-SOXFAN
07-11-2008, 11:43 AM
How were those comments taken out of context?


I guess I'll go over this for the 4th or 5th time on here, in addition to the numerous times Obama has elaborated in addition to the Pennsylvania primary debate.

Obama said that voters feel disenfranchised due to politicians not paying attention to their situation and making any changes that were promised, specifically small town americans. These voters don't feel any loyalty to a party or politician since nothing ever changes or helps therefore they cling to the guns and religion issues of the politicians when making the decision who they vote for. He did not say they physically cling to a gun, gun rights, bibles or church. He was saying this is how they evaluate who they vote for because they ultimately feel disenfranchised regarding economic policy issues. He was referring to ISSUES. That is called spin, especially how Hannity keeps misrepresenting his words and regurgitating it over and over.

That is not an untrue or elitist statement at all, especially since he was saying that he wants to make changes to the issues that are important to small town americans. It's a good thing people are getting this, well everyone that wants to know the truth and avoid lies and spin.

I feel I have to cut and paste this about every three weeks to remind everyone of the facts and cut through the spin.

blenderboy5
07-11-2008, 11:50 AM
Okay...

I don't think that really counts.

He did say they clung to their gun rights. He said that because neither party helps them, they vote based on religion and gun rights.

You said it here:
they cling to the guns and religion issues of the politicians when making the decision who they vote for.

Unless you want to take that back.

So they do cling to their religious views. And their gun rights. It's hard to vote for a candidate who supports gun rights if you don't show support for gun rights...

Also, way to spin the alleged spin.

Those on the right never said "Obama has accused us of running around carrying steeples on our backs." We understand it's a psychological clinging. I realize Obama wasn't saying these voters carry churches in their left pocket, guns in their right, and bibles in their back pocket.

No **** it was representative.

And how the **** do you physically cling to gun rights? Other than holding a gun lol.

PHX-SOXFAN
07-11-2008, 11:54 AM
Okay...

I don't think that really counts.

He did say they clung to their gun rights. He said that because neither party helps them, they vote based on religion and gun rights.

You said it here:

Unless you want to take that back.

So they do cling to their religious views. And their gun rights. It's hard to vote for a candidate who supports gun rights if you don't show support for gun rights...

Also, way to spin the alleged spin.

Those on the right never said "Obama has accused us of running around carrying steeples on our backs." We understand it's a psychological clinging. I realize Obama wasn't saying these voters carry churches in their left pocket, guns in their right, and bibles in their back pocket.

No **** it was representative.

And how the **** do you physically cling to gun rights? Other than holding a gun lol.

He obviously worded it poorly for it to get spun in the first place and still carried out this far with being misrepresented. What did he say that was untrue? People decide on who they vote for based on their views on gun rights and religion, that's true. He wants people to evaluate economic and domestic policy because he wants it to matter, that's all. That's how you sum up his statements. he wasn't talking down to people, he was trying to draw attention to issues that matter the most and make the changes that are promised in campaign.

blenderboy5
07-11-2008, 11:59 AM
He said people clung to their guns and religion with the conotation that sticking to your morals/constitutional rights is stupid.

And this may shock some people, but a lot of Americans care more about the constitution or God than Darfur, or Zimbabwe (I wish I could spell lol), or stupid poor people buying houses way too rich.

blenderboy5
07-11-2008, 12:00 PM
And you still haven't proven his words were spun, other than all those Americans who got on TV and accused Obama of slandering the steeple-carrying crowd.

DenButsu
07-11-2008, 12:00 PM
with the conotation that sticking to your morals/constitutional rights is stupid

Now that's just a flat out lie.

DenButsu
07-11-2008, 12:26 PM
And just when you thought it was all in your head, ...


Fannie and Freddie in danger
Continued sharp slide in shares of mortgage finance firms raises new concerns about need for new capital, threat of government takeover.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The anxiety over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, crucial to a recovery of the battered housing market and the economy as a whole, reached fever pitch on Friday as shares plunged on speculation of a looming bailout.

Immediately after the markets opened, shares of Fannie (FNM, Fortune 500) and Freddie (FRE, Fortune 500) fell more than 47% from their already battered closing price the day before. They soon rebounded later in the morning but Fannie shares were still down 22% and Freddie shares were off 20% in midday trading.

The problems for Freddie and Fannie also weighed on broader markets, causing a sell-off in U.S. stocks, especially hitting major banks, Wall Street firms and home builders.

Fannie and Freddie hold or back $5 trillion between them, or about half the mortgage debt in the country.

They play a central role in the U.S. housing market, providing a crucial source of funding for banks and other home lenders, especially since a credit market crisis last summer left them the only major players in packaging pools of mortgage loans into securities for sale to investors.

If they were unable to do so, it would significantly raise the cost and restrict the availability of mortgage loans, causing significantly more problems for already battered housing prices and sales. That in turn would be another significant problem for the overall U.S. economy, as well as global credit markets.

The New York Times reported Friday that senior Bush administration officials are considering a plan to have the government take over one or both of the companies if their problems worsen.

The shares started to erase early losses when word came that Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson was set to speak. He said that the government's primary focus is making sure that mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac remain as presently constituted to carry out their mission.

Even before the latest report on a possible rescue plan, speculation about the future of the firms this week sparked a run by investors away from their shares. That in turn raised questions about how difficult and expensive it will be for them to raise needed capital in the future, which fed into the stock plunge in a vicious cycle.

In the first four trading days of the week, the shares of Fannie have lost 30% of their value, while Freddie shares have tumbled 45%. For the year, Fannie is down 67% and Freddie 77%.cnn (http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/11/news/companies/fannie_freddie_shares/index.htm?cnn=yes)

KingJamsI
07-11-2008, 12:34 PM
And just when you thought it was all in your head, ...

cnn (http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/11/news/companies/fannie_freddie_shares/index.htm?cnn=yes)

The collapse of companies holding 50% of the mortgage debt would have primarily psychological downfalls. It's no need to whine for a bailout. :eyebrow:

blenderboy5
07-11-2008, 12:51 PM
Now that's just a flat out lie.

Not really.

He basically said "stop caring about that silly stuff, look at universal health care, supreme court picks, NAFTA, the housing bubble, not your outdated religion and gun beliefs." Obviously he didn't actually say that, but that was an easily interpreted message.

Even PHX (who by the way still hasn't proven his comments were spun/taken out of context) admitted Obama was trying to get people to focus on other things over religion and gun rights.

PHX-SOXFAN
07-11-2008, 01:14 PM
Not really.

He basically said "stop caring about that silly stuff, look at universal health care, supreme court picks, NAFTA, the housing bubble, not your outdated religion and gun beliefs." Obviously he didn't actually say that, but that was an easily interpreted message.

Even PHX (who by the way still hasn't proven his comments were spun/taken out of context) admitted Obama was trying to get people to focus on other things over religion and gun rights.

talk about spinning out of control. you are right that he obviously didn't say that, and the only ones who easily interpret it this way are Hannity, Rush, their clones, and the far right talking point blowhards. You continue to spin this and openly admit it with statements like this. thank you for proving my point.

blenderboy5
07-11-2008, 01:28 PM
You said it yourself.



People decide on who they vote for based on their views on gun rights and religion, that's true. He wants people to evaluate economic and domestic policy

So Obama wants people to stop focusing on god and their constitutional rights and start focusing on things like NAFTA, the housing bubble, and other things I mentioned above.

PHX-SOXFAN
07-11-2008, 01:34 PM
You said it yourself.



So Obama wants people to stop focusing on god and their constitutional rights and start focusing on things like NAFTA, the housing bubble, and other things I mentioned above.

in addition to, not one more than the other, not just these issues, but all issues to be included. You continue to spin and take things how you want. Nowhere did I say "stop evaluating base on these issues" or stop anything for that matter, just stop with these issues alone and take the others into consideration. they are all important issues, that's the point.

You're just being stubborn about this now because it you know it doesn't fit the talking point when wholly evaluated in context.

He certainly doesn't want people to stop focusing on their god, just look at what he's done, where he's been, and what he's said this past week. Hardly a man who wants no emphasis on religion.:rolleyes:

GA16Angels
07-11-2008, 02:19 PM
I heard this last night on the Jay Leno show and it made me laugh so hard. "So apparently we're just imagining that gas costs $4.60." :laugh:

Randy West
07-11-2008, 02:24 PM
Maybe foreclosures wouldn't happen if idiots bought houses they could afford?

does the term predatory lending mean anything to you??

blenderboy5
07-11-2008, 03:06 PM
I guess the issue is PHX, that you can't just run around screaming "SPIN!!!" "RUSH LOVER!!!" "HANNITY!"

You have to prove it.

blenderboy5
07-11-2008, 03:21 PM
And who are the victims of predatory lending? Idiots who don't understand businesses are trying to make a profit. Idiots who can't sit down and say "well, I make this much and I spend this much on food and I need this much for gas and this much for utilities so I need this much for my house how much is my mortgage?"

Randy West
07-11-2008, 04:06 PM
Yeah I guess the companies that have been shut down because of it were shut down for something else.

I personally know of people who's income figures were doctored by lenders after the paperwork was signed.

But I am sure you will try to blame that on borrowers as well

PHX-SOXFAN
07-11-2008, 04:21 PM
And who are the victims of predatory lending? Idiots who don't understand businesses are trying to make a profit. Idiots who can't sit down and say "well, I make this much and I spend this much on food and I need this much for gas and this much for utilities so I need this much for my house how much is my mortgage?"

now add in the likely scenario that they were told that their 5/1 ARM would be great for now and they would be able to refi down the road, only to find out their home is worth much less than their mortgage balance and they can't refi. Then their rate resets to the loan their were sold as the best option and they can't afford it because they assumed they wouldn't be in that position, but they would be in a fixed rate by then. Well that's fair isn't it.:rolleyes:

It's also ridiculous that the banks won't alter the loan to a fixed rate in order to avoid the huge loss of the inevitable foreclosure, but instead go forward with the current loan, knowing full well the borrower can't afford the new rate, but would be able to afford a fixed rate to avoid a foreclosure. What a smart industry that is.:rolleyes: Yep it's all the borrowers fault.:rolleyes: Especially since this exact scenario is extremely more common than someone who just bought a house they could never afford.

and this scenario happens over and over and over, driving home values down, eliminating the possibility of a refi for many as long as the lenders keep from changing their policies to allow it and defy the suggestions of Paulson, Bernanke, and nearly every knowledgeable senator and congressmen

sorry, but it's not as simple as blame an idiot who didn't budget. It's a huge mess that just keeps being fed from lenders who won't stop predatory practices, take the advice of economists, or budge to make a smart business decision. It boggles my mind that they go foreward with a costly foreclosure instead of switching to a fixed 30 year.

gcoll
07-11-2008, 06:33 PM
He was referring to ISSUES.
Yes. I know.


That is not an untrue or elitist statement at all
Yes it is. It's putting down religious people, and people who care about gun rights....implying what they feel is important, isn't. That they are somehow misguided, and stupid, and they need Obama to come in and set them straight.


It's a good thing people are getting this, well everyone that wants to know the truth and avoid lies and spin.
Saying something is spin. Doesn't make it spin.

You can't take every unpopular thing Obama says, and declare that it's Hannity's fault.


He said people clung to their guns and religion with the conotation that sticking to your morals/constitutional rights is stupid.
Right. He trivialized those issues, and implied that the people who care about them are misguided.

Phx-Soxfan.....look at it this way. Who was he talking to? Where was he talking to them? What was he talking to them about? That puts it in context. And it really doesn't help your point at all.

blenderboy5
07-11-2008, 09:59 PM
Gcoll you don't understand.

I'm actually Rush's secret lovechild who just spews everything I say. And every fault of Obama isn't a fault. Obama is Jesus ****ing Christ. Every percieved Obama fault is really the critics spinning.

Does he believe in universal health care, or is that just spin too?

ari1013
07-12-2008, 09:54 AM
how about we get back on topic?

ari1013
07-12-2008, 09:55 AM
And just when you thought it was all in your head, ...

cnn (http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/11/news/companies/fannie_freddie_shares/index.htm?cnn=yes)
Even with them down that much, I'd still sell those stocks short if I wasn't a risk averse economist.

PHX-SOXFAN
07-14-2008, 11:35 AM
Yes. I know.


Yes it is. It's putting down religious people, and people who care about gun rights....implying what they feel is important, isn't. That they are somehow misguided, and stupid, and they need Obama to come in and set them straight.


Saying something is spin. Doesn't make it spin.

You can't take every unpopular thing Obama says, and declare that it's Hannity's fault.


Right. He trivialized those issues, and implied that the people who care about them are misguided.

Phx-Soxfan.....look at it this way. Who was he talking to? Where was he talking to them? What was he talking to them about? That puts it in context. And it really doesn't help your point at all.

you guys want to make it seem as though he was putting down those issues. Like I said, he was saying he wants people to evaluate all issues, not just two that won't be changed by his presidency anyways. he never said it wasn't important, and has said many times, especially recently, that it is very important to him.

he has clarified this for so many audiences by now and stood in front of religious based audiences, for someone to still think that this was a put down you are still spinning that's the point. Go watch the Pennsylvania debate for one, what's that audience?:speechless: It's people like you two, and yes Hannity, that beat this into the ground and misguide people on his message. get over it, that's not his view.

blenderboy5
07-14-2008, 11:39 AM
I'm still confused how it's spin, but I have a feeling it isn't.

he did say those issues are unimportant compared to economic and domestic issues in politics. If Obama truly believed religion or the second amendment was more important, why would he ask people to ignore them for a moment and look at other issues?

PHX-SOXFAN
07-14-2008, 11:49 AM
I'm still confused how it's spin, but I have a feeling it isn't.

he did say those issues are unimportant compared to economic and domestic issues in politics. If Obama truly believed religion or the second amendment was more important, why would he ask people to ignore them for a moment and look at other issues?

the problem with your argument is that he didn't say any of that, you're implying and assuming. He said that people need to look at the whole spectrum of issues and did not dismiss a single one. He said all other issues should not be dismissed in lieu of only evaluating the two topics being discussed. he never ranked any, said to dismiss any, or said any of them were unimportant. to the contrary he said all should be evaluated and that he wants all of the issues to impact people for the better, instead of none of them ever helping like with administrations of the past. Get it yet?

you guys continue to inject that he said to dismiss religion and guns, and that they were unimportant, yet he never said that and thus the "spin".

PHX-SOXFAN
07-14-2008, 11:52 AM
To get back on topic for this thread:

this is a pretty widespread list of store closings.

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977364401

It's starting to trickle into where people spend money regularly. this is not a figment of Gramm's imagination. These numbers are going to be reported over coming months.

God of War
07-14-2008, 01:27 PM
Wait til the list of bank bailouts.

blenderboy5
07-14-2008, 01:42 PM
That's not spin!

He basically said voters need to focus less on guns and religion and focus more on health care and the economy. It's not that hard to get that from what Obama said. In fact, it was his point.

PHX-SOXFAN
07-14-2008, 02:15 PM
That's not spin!

He basically said voters need to focus less on guns and religion and focus more on health care and the economy. It's not that hard to get that from what Obama said. In fact, it was his point.

this is what spin comes down to!:D Interpretations, misrepresentations, and putting words into people's mouths that they didn't say. Most of these sentences begin with "he basically said", "what he means is", etc. Thank you for continuing to prove my point by not quoting him, paraphrasing, interpreting and spinning.:clap::clap::clap::clap:

blenderboy5
07-14-2008, 02:38 PM
this is what spin comes down to!:D Interpretations, misrepresentations, and putting words into people's mouths that they didn't say. Most of these sentences begin with "he basically said", "what he means is", etc. Thank you for continuing to prove my point by not quoting him, paraphrasing, interpreting and spinning.:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Please.

Politics is all about hearing the spin that comes from politicians (even your precious Obama) and interpreting it. For instance, LA Governor Jindal said in a recent interview, when asked if he would accept a VP nomination, "McCain won't ask me, I'm happy with my job."

He didn't say "I won't accept it," "I will accept it," or anything of the sort. He gave a non-answer answer. So that requires interpretation.

Now when Obama says "It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." that does requier some interpretation. But other things are pretty clear. And it's pretty clear tat he views clinging to second amendment rights and religion as secondary to issues like NAFTA and amnesty.

moonman
07-14-2008, 02:39 PM
A nation of whiners are we? It doesn't deserve a response. The noise Gramm hears is merely the opinion of the vast majority that the Reagan Revolution generally and George W. Bush specifically has failed.

All it accomplished was that it socialized risk and loss while maintaining profit in private hands. Two recent examples are Bear/Stearns and Indymac. Washington puts together billion dollar deals on a weekend to save banks but after a year of record foreclosures Congress has done nothing to save one person in his or her home.

As John Conyers once said, "If the people knew what was really going on there'd be a revolution."

Gramm is no different than Marie Antoinette who was beheaded alongside Louis XIV in the French Revolution.

gcoll
07-14-2008, 06:34 PM
you guys want to make it seem as though he was putting down those issues.
He was. And he was putting down those people.

I don't think "Cling to their guns, and religion..." uses the word "bitter" and "anti immigrant sentiment" he's not talking positively about those issues.

And again. Who was he talking to, what was he talking about?


Like I said, he was saying he wants people to evaluate all issues
Who was he talking to? What was he talking about?

If you don't understand what Obama was talking about. You don't want to.


he has clarified this for so many audiences by now and stood in front of religious based audiences, for someone to still think that this was a put down you are still spinning that's the point.
It was a put down.

Just because he tried to back away from the comments, doesn't change the meaning of the comments.

blenderboy5
07-14-2008, 08:05 PM
It's really not that hard to comprehend. Regardless of the half-hearted clarifications afterwards, Obama said:

Voters need to worry more about things like Nafta and the economy. He said that voters who feel neglected by Washington vote based on the second amendment and religion. Then he said that shouldn't occur anymore, that they need to set aside their anti-amnesty views and their trade views.

gcoll
07-15-2008, 12:51 AM
It's really not that hard to comprehend. Regardless of the half-hearted clarifications afterwards, Obama said:

Voters need to worry more about things like Nafta and the economy. He said that voters who feel neglected by Washington vote based on the second amendment and religion. Then he said that shouldn't occur anymore, that they need to set aside their anti-amnesty views and their trade views.

He wasn't saying that voters need to do anything. He was just describing certain demographics, and why he does poorly with them.

http://thepage.time.com/transcript-of-obamas-remarks-at-san-francisco-fundraiser-sunday/

When put in context, it's easy to see where PHX-SOXFAN's argument fails. He wasn't speaking TO these people. He was speaking ABOUT them to a San Francisco fundraiser audience. They were all campaign workers and Obama supporters. He was briefing them on the situation in Pennsylvania that had a primary coming up. He was talking about the different demographics they were courting, and why they don't poll so well with some.

And what does "antipathy to people who aren’t like them" mean? Since when can a view being described as motivated by bitterness, be seen as anything else but a negative? Since when is "antipathy to people who aren't like them" even a political position?

Come on. Stop spinning it PHX-Sox fan.

PHX-SOXFAN
07-15-2008, 06:15 PM
on top of being an nation of whiners and this all being mental, our "pillars are strong". It's unfortunate that every economic mind, excluding those involved in republican campaigns say otherwise:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/business/16fed.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

PHX-SOXFAN
07-21-2008, 10:29 AM
looks like the secretary of the treasury is a whiner who is having mental issues as well:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,386961,00.html

spin it George W, tell us how the economy is great and that the tax cuts for the rich should be made permanent, haven't heard that one for a while.:rolleyes:

bbsmets
07-21-2008, 11:15 AM
Well, to a certain extent, he was right. He's not 100% right, but there is a bit of mental hype there.

But nothing changes the fact that unemployment is rising, housing costs are ridiculous, the financing markets are shaky, gas prices are out of the realm of reality, actual incomes are declining compared to inflation, etc.

ari1013
07-21-2008, 09:16 PM
Well, to a certain extent, he was right. He's not 100% right, but there is a bit of mental hype there.

But nothing changes the fact that unemployment is rising, housing costs are ridiculous, the financing markets are shaky, gas prices are out of the realm of reality, actual incomes are declining compared to inflation, etc.
well... expectations play a role with regard to inflation -- which then has an impact on real income. But I don't think inflation is up simply because people's expectations for it are up.