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RoyHalladay#32
07-09-2008, 10:11 PM
With the additions of Brand and Oneal this division has turned into something else. Whats your opinion???

Crunchy12489
07-09-2008, 10:28 PM
Sixers baby!

JordansBulls
07-10-2008, 12:53 AM
Sixers have more balance in the frontcourt and backcourt.

Iodine
07-10-2008, 02:26 AM
Phillyyyyyyy

Mile High Champ
07-10-2008, 03:00 PM
Sixers have more balance in the frontcourt and backcourt.

hmm Willie Green and Miller are better than Calderon and Parker. Dont think so...

Iodine
07-10-2008, 03:48 PM
hmm Willie Green and Miller are better than Calderon and Parker. Dont think so...

Right willie green will be starting now that we can move iggy back down to SG right

AgentViet
07-10-2008, 04:19 PM
Dalembert vs. O'Neal: Both are great defensive presences in the paint, but O'Neal is better offensively. O'Neal takes this.
Brand vs. Bosh: Two of the leagues top PFs, Brand is strong but Bosh is quicker and has a better range. Pretty much even here.
Young vs. Moon: Guys that are very athletic and inexperienced with lots of potential. I'll call this match up even.
Iguodala vs. Parker: Iguodala is obviously more talented, but Parker is a solid defender who can stay with him. Iguodala takes this one either way.
Miller vs. Calderon: Personally I'll take Calderon because he's got the best assist-turnover ratio and would be putting up 15/10 as the full time PG next year. It's pretty close here.
Bench: Raptors' are deeper.

I think the Raptors are the better team overall. They're both very close though. Hopefully one of them will dethrone the Celtic's for the Atlantic title.

North Yorker
07-10-2008, 05:17 PM
Dalembert vs. O'Neal: Both are great defensive presences in the paint, but O'Neal is better offensively. O'Neal takes this.
Brand vs. Bosh: Two of the leagues top PFs, Brand is strong but Bosh is quicker and has a better range. Pretty much even here.
Young vs. Moon: Guys that are very athletic and inexperienced with lots of potential. I'll call this match up even.
Iguodala vs. Parker: Iguodala is obviously more talented, but Parker is a solid defender who can stay with him. Iguodala takes this one either way.
Miller vs. Calderon: Personally I'll take Calderon because he's got the best assist-turnover ratio and would be putting up 15/10 as the full time PG next year. It's pretty close here.
Bench: Raptors' are deeper.

I think the Raptors are the better team overall. They're both very close though. Hopefully one of them will dethrone the Celtic's for the Atlantic title.

For the most part I agree with your assessment except I think Young is better than Moon, or has the potential to be a lot better than Moon this year, and I think that both of the teams' benches are about even-depends on the progress of Bargs-.

These are 2 very different teams but should be neck and neck for the most part of next season. Philly will be more of a slashing team that plays inside with Brand, while the Raps will play through their Twin Towers and then kick it out to their lethal 3 point shooters.

Shieldsz
07-10-2008, 06:25 PM
Sixers and I am not being a homer.

They have a more balanced lineup and better bench

_Sn1P3r_
07-10-2008, 07:00 PM
Dalembert vs. O'Neal: Both are great defensive presences in the paint, but O'Neal is better offensively. O'Neal takes this.
Brand vs. Bosh: Two of the leagues top PFs, Brand is strong but Bosh is quicker and has a better range. Pretty much even here.
Young vs. Moon: Guys that are very athletic and inexperienced with lots of potential. I'll call this match up even.
Iguodala vs. Parker: Iguodala is obviously more talented, but Parker is a solid defender who can stay with him. Iguodala takes this one either way.
Miller vs. Calderon: Personally I'll take Calderon because he's got the best assist-turnover ratio and would be putting up 15/10 as the full time PG next year. It's pretty close here.
Bench: Raptors' are deeper.

I think the Raptors are the better team overall. They're both very close though. Hopefully one of them will dethrone the Celtic's for the Atlantic title.

Great assesment. Not trying to be a homer but I would go with Raptors.

sanfranfan1210
07-10-2008, 07:20 PM
Raptors

RoyHalladay#32
07-10-2008, 10:50 PM
If Bargnani turns into something around the level of Dirk the Raps will be better. If Bargnani turns into Darko the Sixers take this one by a bit. Also Bosh and Calderon will only get better so watch out Sixers.

Crunchy12489
07-10-2008, 11:41 PM
Dalembert vs. O'Neal: Both are great defensive presences in the paint, but O'Neal is better offensively. O'Neal takes this.
Brand vs. Bosh: Two of the leagues top PFs, Brand is strong but Bosh is quicker and has a better range. Pretty much even here.
Young vs. Moon: Guys that are very athletic and inexperienced with lots of potential. I'll call this match up even.
Iguodala vs. Parker: Iguodala is obviously more talented, but Parker is a solid defender who can stay with him. Iguodala takes this one either way.
Miller vs. Calderon: Personally I'll take Calderon because he's got the best assist-turnover ratio and would be putting up 15/10 as the full time PG next year. It's pretty close here.
Bench: Raptors' are deeper.

I think the Raptors are the better team overall. They're both very close though. Hopefully one of them will dethrone the Celtic's for the Atlantic title.

Wow... not liking that Oneal over Dalembert assumption... Dalembert holds D which limits most Centers' game... It's the soft Centers who let Oneal shine on them...

Yeah Brand and Bosh... they will go at it... Brand has better post moves and blocking, however Chris Bosh has better range and rebounding... its going to be interesting

I dont know.. Moon has those insane hops, but Thaddeus has that younger physique and power... Even i would agree

Iggy no doubt.

Miller and calderon? Miller will drop an insane amount of points on him... Calderon can't really hold that great of defense... Calderon is the better "pass-first" point guard though

As far as bench? Im going with Philly. It's true that the Raptors have a decent bench, but they are mainly just shooters.

Philly has alot of athletic and powerful players. Raptors don't have that "aggression" coming off of the bench...

That's my opinion

ManRam
07-10-2008, 11:42 PM
Toronto has very little perimeter scoring. Calderon is a great point guard, but not a true scorer. Parker/Delfino/Moon/Kopono and whoever make up probably one of the worst SG/SF starting tandem in the leagues.

Brand and Dalembert are just as good, if not better than Glassman Jr. and Bosh. I think O'Neal is an overrated bum who is always a second away from a serious injury. Through in Andre Miller and Iguodala, and an upcoming Thaddeus Young, and the Sixers back court definitely outdoes the Raptors'.

The Raptors need a wing player...desperately. They also need to do a lot of praying that 44% shooting Glassman Jr. stays healthy.

marvILLous
07-10-2008, 11:48 PM
Toronto has very little perimeter scoring. Calderon is a great point guard, but not a true scorer. Parker/Delfino/Moon/Kopono and whoever make up probably one of the worst SG/SF starting tandem in the leagues.

Brand and Dalembert are just as good, if not better than Glassman Jr. and Bosh. I think O'Neal is an overrated bum who is always a second away from a serious injury. Through in Andre Miller and Iguodala, and an upcoming Thaddeus Young, and the Sixers back court definitely outdoes the Raptors'.

The Raptors need a wing player...desperately. They also need to do a lot of praying that 44% shooting Glassman Jr. stays healthy.

lol are you kidding me??

Mile High Champ
07-11-2008, 01:27 PM
Toronto has very little perimeter scoring. Calderon is a great point guard, but not a true scorer. Parker/Delfino/Moon/Kopono and whoever make up probably one of the worst SG/SF starting tandem in the leagues.

Brand and Dalembert are just as good, if not better than Glassman Jr. and Bosh. I think O'Neal is an overrated bum who is always a second away from a serious injury. Through in Andre Miller and Iguodala, and an upcoming Thaddeus Young, and the Sixers back court definitely outdoes the Raptors'.

The Raptors need a wing player...desperately. They also need to do a lot of praying that 44% shooting Glassman Jr. stays healthy.

haha that much of bias coming from a magic fan...

Iodine
07-11-2008, 02:54 PM
haha that much of bias coming from a magic fan...

wow damn with all those points you used you really disproved everything he said

Acekicker123
07-12-2008, 12:31 AM
Toronto has very little perimeter scoring.Calderon is a great point guard, but not a true scorer. Parker/Delfino/Moon/Kopono and whoever make up probably one of the worst SG/SF starting tandem in the leagues.

Brand and Dalembert are just as good, if not better than Glassman Jr. and Bosh. I think O'Neal is an overrated bum who is always a second away from a serious injury. Through in Andre Miller and Iguodala, and an upcoming Thaddeus Young, and the Sixers back court definitely outdoes the Raptors'.

The Raptors need a wing player...desperately. They also need to do a lot of praying that 44% shooting Glassman Jr. stays healthy.

Raptors = T-1st in the league in 3-Pt FG%., T-7th in 3-Pt's Made

Sixers = T-last in the league in 3-Pt FG%, last in 3-Pt's Made

Raptors = 7th in NBA FG%, 7th in FG's made.

If there was but ONE strength that could describe the Raptors it would be their perimeter scoring... They don't have any sexy household names, but Parker, Kapono, Calderon, all shoot a ridiculously high %.

Their defense, rebounding, and paint scoring have been their issues.

LakerzDQ
07-12-2008, 02:24 AM
Sixers have more balance in the frontcourt and backcourt.

they don't really have a spacing balance though. like, they don't have any shooting in their team.

Raptors had a very good 3-point shooting team before O'neal came, and now they have a great cast of shooters as well as 2 good big men.

phillyphan4ever
07-12-2008, 02:57 AM
Dalembert vs. O'Neal: Both are great defensive presences in the paint, but O'Neal is better offensively. O'Neal takes this.
Brand vs. Bosh: Two of the leagues top PFs, Brand is strong but Bosh is quicker and has a better range. Pretty much even here.
Young vs. Moon: Guys that are very athletic and inexperienced with lots of potential. I'll call this match up even.
Iguodala vs. Parker: Iguodala is obviously more talented, but Parker is a solid defender who can stay with him. Iguodala takes this one either way.
Miller vs. Calderon: Personally I'll take Calderon because he's got the best assist-turnover ratio and would be putting up 15/10 as the full time PG next year. It's pretty close here.
Bench: Raptors' are deeper.

I think the Raptors are the better team overall. They're both very close though. Hopefully one of them will dethrone the Celtic's for the Atlantic title.

O'Neal=Dalembert
Bosh<Brand
Moon<Young
Parker<Iggy
Calderon<Miller

Edge-Sixers

North Yorker
07-12-2008, 09:27 AM
O'Neal=Dalembert
Bosh<Brand
Moon<Young
Parker<Iggy
Calderon<Miller

Edge-Sixers

Calderon was almost on the All-Star team last year, with limited minutes. Thats how good he was. Miller has the edge defensively, but Jose is like the second coming of Nash. He had some insanely good games last year and shot over 50%fg,90% from the stripe, and over 40% from 3. He can score and run an offense with ease without turning the ball over. He is also just hitting his prime, while Miller isn't getting any better.

LakerzDQ
07-12-2008, 09:32 AM
O'Neal=Dalembert
Bosh<Brand
Moon<Young
Parker<Iggy
Calderon<Miller

Edge-Sixers

don't kid yourself.

JO>Dalembert
Bosh=Brand
Moon=Young
Parker<Iguodala
Jose=Miller

Crunchy12489
07-12-2008, 09:42 AM
don't kid yourself.

JO>Dalembert
Bosh=Brand
Moon=Young
Parker<Iguodala
Jose=Miller

Let me fix that for you. Small changes.

JO>Dalembert (but Dalembert will limit his game)
Bosh=Brand
Moon=Young
Parker<Iguodala
Jose<Miller (Miller can score on him with ease)

Ragun
07-12-2008, 10:04 AM
Raptors. Its close. Not being a homer but Bosh and ONeal are just too good offensively.

jimbobjarree
07-12-2008, 10:08 AM
the team that will be better is the team that can keep their new boy fittest for the longest, which I think the Sixers will, O'neil just has too many problems

AirMyles
07-13-2008, 05:25 AM
I think I have to give the edge here to the raptors. JO and bosh will be able to find alot of open shooters with their touches. The raptors have possibly the best core of 3point shooters in the league and will make teams pay. Phili is a really athletic team and I like what they bring to the table. They can slash and get to hoop which means alot of trips to the line and easy baskets. Their interior D will be great with Brand beside Dalembert.


JO > Dalembert
Bosh = Brand
Moon =< Young
Parker < Iggie
Calderon > Miller

The keys to the raptors season will be the development of Bargnani and the health of JO. IF JO can stay healthy, that starting frontcourt will be nasty. This team lacked a defensive presence in the middle and interior scoring. They get both with JO. I would love to see this team aquire a wing scorer though. Yes they have a great pass first pg in Calderon, but they still lack a wing player who can create for himself. If Bargnani can get it together(many have already labelled him a bust), the raptors will have their 6th man candidate. Whether you like the kid or not, when he's on he can score. Him bouncing back will be key. If this team runs into alot of misfortune, you might be looking at a 40 win 8th seat in the east, but if everything pans out, this team could easily win 50+ games and nail down a top 3 seat.

I think it's easier to predict the success of the 76ers this year. Brand is apparently healthy and we all know what he is capable of doing in this league. They have a vet pg, Iggie is a beast, and alot of young talent. I would still like to see them aquire some more 3 point shooting to make teams pay for doubling Brand downlow. I also think this team is still very young and we need to wait a little longer for them to develop. There are less question marks with this team. They should have between 45-50 wins if all is well. A 4-6 seat looks reasonable.


There are ALOT OF "IF'S". At full strength the raptors are a better team...but will the raptors be full strength?

TMAC94
07-13-2008, 09:13 AM
Sixers

Sixerlover
07-13-2008, 10:56 AM
Raptors. Its close. Not being a homer but Bosh and ONeal are just too good offensively.

Offensively? O'Neal shoots a terrible percentage for a big man. And Dalembert's defense will help lower that even more.

The way I see it is that this matchup will come down to the wing players. We all know Bosh + Brand bring strong offensive games + solid D, we all know Daly and O'Neal bring solid D, and we all know that Miller and Calderon can score and drive past each other alomst at will (Miller too strong, Calderon too quick). So it comes down to Iguodala + Thad vs Parker + Moon. I think we have the edge because it is pretty obvious Iggy is the better player in their matchup, and Thad has been making great strides this summer alone, and is still growing and maturing his game. Sky is the limit for this kid.

Now I agree that we need some perimeter shooting, but really how much will Mike Finley cost? JJ Reddick? Adam Morrison? Luther Head? Vlad Rad? You get my point, that is not an end all issue because 3 point shooters can be acquired fairly easily. Toronto needs that slashing, strong Corey Maggette type wing player. I don't think those type of players are easier to find.

Durant is hype
07-13-2008, 11:44 AM
^Agree 100% and I'm a Raptors Fan.

Mile High Champ
07-14-2008, 09:32 AM
Offensively? O'Neal shoots a terrible percentage for a big man. And Dalembert's defense will help lower that even more.

The way I see it is that this matchup will come down to the wing players. We all know Bosh + Brand bring strong offensive games + solid D, we all know Daly and O'Neal bring solid D, and we all know that Miller and Calderon can score and drive past each other alomst at will (Miller too strong, Calderon too quick). So it comes down to Iguodala + Thad vs Parker + Moon. I think we have the edge because it is pretty obvious Iggy is the better player in their matchup, and Thad has been making great strides this summer alone, and is still growing and maturing his game. Sky is the limit for this kid..

I just see Bosh as the guy in the matchup of these teams. Brand is coming off surgery which caused him to miss most of last year, Yes he came back but we dont how he will adjust to to playing in a new system or playing a full season after the injury. His injury is much more severe that what O'neal dealt with. I see Bosh as a much better player than Brand at this point, in terms of a skillset and Bosh's ability to exstend the floor, he can hit that jumper anywhere within 20 feet. He also is much quicker and that allows him to put the ball on the floor in ways that only Brand could dream. Plus he is 5 years younger, to say Brand is better or equal to Bosh I think is overlooking way too many things that are clearly in Bosh's favour. I also think you overlooked one large factor and you even mentioned it yourself. If there is one thing Calderon does very well, it is dominate bigger guards, his quickness and his ability to get to basket in one-two steps puts tremendous pressure on a guy like Miller to stay in front of his check which often forces him to make a bad play. Dont get me wrong Miller is a good pg but its Calderon's ability to shoot and get to the basket that gives him the edge in that matchup. My only other real question is this. How can O'neal be equal to Dalembert? O'neal is a 6 time allstar and Dalembert has never even seen an allstar type season once. O'neal wins this matchup in offense ability alone because O'neal can score 20-30 points a night, Dalembert cannot. O'neal can take over the game and be the guy, Samuel cant! They are essentially equal on the defensive end so that matchup is a wash. They are not equal.
JO hands down!


Now I agree that we need some perimeter shooting, but really how much will Mike Finley cost? JJ Reddick? Adam Morrison? Luther Head? Vlad Rad? You get my point, that is not an end all issue because 3 point shooters can be acquired fairly easily. Toronto needs that slashing, strong Corey Maggette type wing player. I don't think those type of players are easier to find.

If it is so easy to find why didnt the 76'ers adress it last season? The reason is because it is a difficult need to adress. In the case of Reddick and Head they are role players. Thats all they do. These type of guys are situation players who player maybe 10 mins a game on a good team. The 76ers need a rotation type player like what Korver was on the team. Somoene that is constantly on the floor and is a threat to hit the 3 point shot. Its that simple. Bringing in a 3pt specialist/bench player who on a good team plays 10 mins a game does not solve a need. Just cause a guy can hit a 3 on your roster, doesnt mean you have adressed the issue if the only 3's the guy is making are those he is hitting in practice or pre game warmup. The 76ers need more than the garbage careers of reddick and morrison to adress these issues.

I_Hate_Lakers
07-14-2008, 04:26 PM
neither

philsphan28
07-16-2008, 02:39 PM
the team that will be better is the team that can keep their new boy fittest for the longest, which I think the Sixers will, O'neil just has too many problems

That's a great point that no one has brought up. O'neal has knee problems which are historically injuries that can linger. Brand ruptured his Achilles which is an injury that is incredibly painful, but once healed, is as good as new.

If O'neal stays healthy, I'll give the edge to the Raps, but unfortunately for Toronto fans, i think it is foolish to not worry about the health of a player who hasn't played a 70 game season since 03-04 (five years ago).

Also, I think it's interesting that these two teams have what the other lacks. Toronto has perimeter shooting which the Sixers desperately need and the Sixers have the strength and aggressiveness that stops the Raps from being great.