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"WhatIf"
07-09-2008, 08:22 PM
So voting is over for the #1 player and your #1 player of all time is...

Michael Jordan

http://www.soleredemption.com/pics/2006/04/michael_jordan.JPG

30.1 PPG | 6.2 RPG | 5.3 APG | 2.3 STL | .497 FG% |

Achievements:
14 time All-Star
6 NBA Championships
'85 Rookie Of The Year
5 Time MVP
6 Time Finals MVP
3 Time All-Star Game MVP
'88 Defensive Player of the Year
10 Time All-NBA First Teamer
1 Time All-NBA Second Teamer
9 Time All-Defensive First Teamer
Led the League in scoring 10 times
Led the League in steals 3 times
Led the League in PER 8 times

Michael Jordan = 124 votes
Wilt Chamberlain = 15 votes
Bill Russell = 6 votes
Magic Johnson = 4 votes
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar = 3 votes
Hakeem Olajuwon = 3 votes
Larry Bird = 1 vote


Link (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242529)

The list:
1. Michael Jordan

Voting will now begin for the second best player of all time.

"WhatIf"
07-09-2008, 08:25 PM
Could someone please unsticky the #1 thread and sticky this one, thanks.

MGB
07-09-2008, 08:27 PM
Wilt

PhillyLuver
07-09-2008, 08:33 PM
Wilt the Stilt.

Just completely dominant

CowboysKB24
07-09-2008, 08:43 PM
Kb24

_Supreme_
07-09-2008, 08:47 PM
Do we really need this in here? I can see 15 more of these coming after this thread.

Maybe it should be in the player comparison forum.

All this "better this, best that" stuff is so for the little kids :pity:

And get rid of Kobe "overrated" Bryant on that list. His name doesn't belong among all those all time greats.

jmaest
07-09-2008, 08:47 PM
Magic. Easily the most versatile player of all time with his ability to play all five positions and play them well. He was a little weak on the defensive side but he was the ultimate team player and had a court vision that no other player has ever had or probably will ever have.

You can make an argument that the gap between Magic and the next best PG of all time is wider than Jordan and the next best 2 guard of all time and that's saying something.

"WhatIf"
07-09-2008, 08:49 PM
Do we really need this in here? I can see 15 more of these coming after this thread.

Maybe it should be in the player comparison forum.

All this "better this, best that" stuff is so for the little kids
Huh? What do you mean 15 more of these? It's a top 100 players list...you think there is going to be 15 other top 100 lists?

_Supreme_
07-09-2008, 08:51 PM
Huh? What do you mean 15 more of these? It's a top 100 players list...you think there is going to be 15 other top 100 lists?

So you are going to make 100 of these threads in total :eyebrow:

"WhatIf"
07-09-2008, 08:53 PM
So you are going to make 100 of these threads in total
Yes, It may be cut down to 50 if people become less interested.

grega1976
07-09-2008, 08:55 PM
I can not believe people are voting for Kobe.. that just shows what little BBall knowledge these people have.. rediculous.. All you dumbasses that voted for Kobe go look at Oscar Robertson (thank you for putting him in this one) or Magic's stats.. those were real players..

_Supreme_
07-09-2008, 08:59 PM
Lmao, ok. We'll be busy for a long while then.

But I can tell you right now this will amount to nothing, and with all the homers and little kids on the site the end result will not have much value. It will mainly be a ranking dictated by how many fans certain players have on this site.

grega1976
07-09-2008, 09:00 PM
Yes, It may be cut down to 50 if people become less interested.

I know of atleast 1 person who will become less interested if Kobe is in the top 5

ee
07-09-2008, 09:00 PM
Magic

grega1976
07-09-2008, 09:00 PM
Lmao, ok. We'll be busy for a long while then.

But I can tell you right now this will amount to nothing, and with all the homers and little kids on the site the end result will not have much value. It will mainly be a ranking dictated by how many fans certain players have on this site.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

McPeak92
07-09-2008, 09:04 PM
MJ, but since he isnt on the list, ill vote the guy that should of been number one, wilt.

_Supreme_
07-09-2008, 09:04 PM
I can not believe people are voting for Kobe.. that just shows what little BBall knowledge these people have.. rediculous.. All you dumbasses that voted for Kobe go look at Oscar Robertson (thank you for putting him in this one) or Magic's stats.. those were real players..

All those people voting Kobe weren't even born when those others played, and most of them probably never even seen footage of most of the names of the list.

That's why this will amount to nothing.

Btw no disrespect intended to the poster who is making these threads, the idea behind it is obviously well meant.

grega1976
07-09-2008, 09:23 PM
could you add Rick Barry pretty soon?
NBA NUMBERS
23.2pts 6.5reb 5.1ast 2.0stl .900ft%
his ABA numbers
30.5 pts 7.5reb 4.1ast

Manny Paplfavre
07-09-2008, 09:34 PM
Magic. Easily the most versatile player of all time with his ability to play all five positions and play them well. He was a little weak on the defensive side but he was the ultimate team player and had a court vision that no other player has ever had or probably will ever have.

You can make an argument that the gap between Magic and the next best PG of all time is wider than Jordan and the next best 2 guard of all time and that's saying something.



I disagree. I would say Oscar Robertson is closer to Magic than any SG is to Jordan

Lincoln Logs
07-09-2008, 09:36 PM
Bill Russell has to be top 3

Manny Paplfavre
07-09-2008, 09:45 PM
Bill Russell. For me it came down between him and Wilt. The deciding factor for me is that in Wilt's 2 most dominating years ('61-62: 50.4 ppg 25.7rpg; '62-63: 44.8 ppg 24.3 ppg) Russel won the MVP award. Oh, there's also those 11 rings.

JIDsanity
07-09-2008, 09:46 PM
Wilt.

Leftcoast_yg
07-09-2008, 09:50 PM
Do we really need this in here? I can see 15 more of these coming after this thread.

Maybe it should be in the player comparison forum.

All this "better this, best that" stuff is so for the little kids :pity:

And get rid of Kobe "overrated" Bryant on that list. His name doesn't belong among all those all time greats.

Haaaateraaaade, here i hope this vid makes you feel better..http://youtube.com/watch?v=ORe0_CS-s1A:D:clap::)

grega1976
07-09-2008, 09:51 PM
oh elgin baylor and Dr J should be on the list as well
Baylor
27.4ppg 13.5reb 4.3ast
Dr J
NBA#'s
22ppg 6.7reb 3.9ast 1.8stl 1.5blk

Ramon Nivar
07-09-2008, 09:54 PM
I went with Kareem. :hide:

I just barely give him the edge over Wilt.

grega1976
07-09-2008, 09:57 PM
Haaaateraaaade, here i hope this vid makes you feel better..http://youtube.com/watch?v=ORe0_CS-s1A:D:clap::)

Kobe's not even top 5 Lakers ever.. get the **** out of here with that kobe ****...
Magic>Kobe
Kareem>Kobe
Shaq>Kobe
West>Kobe
Baylor>Kobe

Vidball
07-09-2008, 09:59 PM
Magic. Easily the most versatile player of all time with his ability to play all five positions and play them well. He was a little weak on the defensive side but he was the ultimate team player and had a court vision that no other player has ever had or probably will ever have.

You can make an argument that the gap between Magic and the next best PG of all time is wider than Jordan and the next best 2 guard of all time and that's saying something.

Solid post...agreed.

avsman05
07-09-2008, 09:59 PM
Wilt is on a totally different plain than anyone else on here 100 points in a game thats 19 better than kobe.

Leftcoast_yg
07-09-2008, 10:06 PM
its true, for every fan theres three haters

grega1976
07-09-2008, 10:07 PM
grega1976=truth<hater
grega1976=truth<hater
grega1976=truth<hater
grega1976=truth<hater

you obviously know very little about basketball, except what ESPN has taught you.. Jerry West is the ****in NBA logo.. You won't see Kobe as the NBA logo anytime soon.. how many championships has he won since Shaq left? that's what I thought.. learn a little about the game before you post in here and make yourself look like a ****in idiot!!!

t-mac1nukka
07-09-2008, 10:25 PM
edit: roommate posted while i was in the other room.

yaowowrocket11
07-09-2008, 11:04 PM
Wilt Chamberlain here. The best dominant big men the league has ever seen.

JordansBulls
07-09-2008, 11:22 PM
This is ridiculous, how the hell does Kobe have more votes than Kareem?

Kobe never has dominated to the level of Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Bird, etc.

Each of those guys actually won as the best player on their respective teams.

Seriously if you are going to vote for someone then make a case for them don't just vote.


With that in mind the #2 pick was pretty difficult to decide, but it came down between Kareem and Wilt. I went with Kareem because of his whole resume. MVP's, Finals MVP's were more than Wilt and while not as statistically dominant, he was still one of the top 3 most dominant players of all time.

stawka
07-09-2008, 11:23 PM
I find it funny that people are voting for Kobe. This is STUPID! He is not even the greatest Laker of all Time. He is behind Magic, Kareem and Shaq in that department. Get him off the list until we reach 7-10.

Anyway. My vote obviously goes to Magic Johnson. When people vote in the Lakers forum at the #1 All-Time Laker great, they vote Magic and then Kareem. How the hell does that make Kobe #2 of ALL-TIME?!

_Supreme_
07-09-2008, 11:28 PM
This is what you get every time Kobe Bryant is included in polls he has no business being included in.

It is really ********.

JordansBulls
07-09-2008, 11:30 PM
Realistically the immortal 6 at this point are MJ, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Russell and Bird. From #7-15 is where it gets interesting.

The83rdWonder
07-10-2008, 12:05 AM
If people vote Kobe in before Magic just close these things down...

kvrnm
07-10-2008, 12:32 AM
no love for the birdman?

raptors_516
07-10-2008, 12:55 AM
how does larry bird only have 1 out of a possible 56 votes while kobe has 7

Buckwheat
07-10-2008, 12:58 AM
Wilt..

Perhaps you should just make it top 20-25 players ever?

Buckwheat
07-10-2008, 12:58 AM
how does larry bird only have 1 out of a possible 56 votes while kobe has 7

Because this site never fails to show the ignorance of others.

JordansBulls
07-10-2008, 01:05 AM
Honestly for the top 8 players it should be only players who have won titles as the best player on the team and guys who have multiple finals or league mvp's.

Iodine
07-10-2008, 01:33 AM
Wilt

Please for the love of god keep kobo out of this

chad311k9
07-10-2008, 01:53 AM
lol at the 7 people hanging off of Kobe's nuts. It gotta be Magic Johnson:clap:

Leftcoast_yg
07-10-2008, 02:13 AM
lol at the 7 people hanging off of Kobe's nuts. It gotta be Magic Johnson:clap:
magic was number one on my list and jordan three because, kobe for 1 scored 81 points 2.he was able to play through rough times, 2005 as jordan, everybody was hanging on his u know what even the whole league office, and kobe everybody hated him and he still tore it up and kobe has better d than jordan

Leftcoast_yg
07-10-2008, 02:15 AM
even Jordan admitted that he was gonna be the future of the NBA, and not to mention phil said he has never seen a player get so hot from the field, considering he coached michael jordan, there's a reason he's a coach, and some of you haters aren't, bring them hater posts, i could feel them coming:D

abe_froman
07-10-2008, 02:15 AM
magic was number one on my list and jordan three because, kobe for 1 scored 81 points 2.he was able to play through rough times, 2005 as jordan, everybody was hanging on his u know what even the whole league office, and kobe everybody hated him and he still tore it up and kobe has better d than jordan

as see by the dpoy award to the one not named kobe :D

Leftcoast_yg
07-10-2008, 02:27 AM
as see by the dpoy award to the one not named kobe :D

guarding who??? bryon russell, clyde drexler, michael cooper..etc. what elite shooting guards did he guard that was so hard to guard, kobe has to guard t- mac, vince carter, d wade, ginobili, lebron, A.I....etc. when jordan had to guard A.I. he couldnt stay in front of him, kobe on jordan when he was young in 1997 was able to stay in front of jordan as a ROOKIE!!! he even blocked his shot

Lakersfan2483
07-10-2008, 02:54 AM
No. 2 all time is Earvin "Magic" Johnson, he came in the league and took it by storm and never looked back. He won a title his rookie year and led his team to 9 finals appearances, earned 3 mvps, won 5 titles and was one of the main reasons the league is in a position it is in now, he and Larry Bird came into the NBA at a time when the league was struggling in terms of ratings and fans, both of those two guys generated so much popularity to the NBA and Magic brought "Showtime" to Los Angeles. Magic is easily the 2nd greatest player ever.

The man used to avg in the playoffs: 21ppg, 12apg, 7rpg, not to mention he could play any position on the basketball court!!!

Lakersfan2483
07-10-2008, 02:58 AM
This is ridiculous, how the hell does Kobe have more votes than Kareem?

Kobe never has dominated to the level of Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Bird, etc.

Each of those guys actually won as the best player on their respective teams.

Seriously if you are going to vote for someone then make a case for them don't just vote.



With that in mind the #2 pick was pretty difficult to decide, but it came down between Kareem and Wilt. I went with Kareem because of his whole resume. MVP's, Finals MVP's were more than Wilt and while not as statistically dominant, he was still one of the top 3 most dominant players of all time.

I am a Laker fan and Kobe is my favorite player but I wouldn't be foolish enough to rank him ahead of Magic, Kareem, Bird, etc... Kobe is not ahead of them at this point in his career.

Nets fan 93
07-10-2008, 02:58 AM
I went w/ Wilt the Stilt

How the heck does kobe get 9 and Duncan get 0 :crazy:

Lakersfan2483
07-10-2008, 03:10 AM
Wilt is not the 2nd greatest player of all-time, it's about making other people better as well as playing great, only 2 titles as the man does not give Wilt the edge over Magic and Kareem. Wilt was great statistically but it did not translate into titles, only 2 rings and he had talented players around him, I am sorry but he doesn't get my vote as the 2nd best all time.

LA_cabals
07-10-2008, 03:11 AM
Magic. Easily the most versatile player of all time with his ability to play all five positions and play them well. He was a little weak on the defensive side but he was the ultimate team player and had a court vision that no other player has ever had or probably will ever have.

You can make an argument that the gap between Magic and the next best PG of all time is wider than Jordan and the next best 2 guard of all time and that's saying something.

well said. you're absolutely right :clap:

Magic Johnson.

stawka
07-10-2008, 03:11 AM
I went w/ Wilt the Stilt

How the heck does kobe get 9 and Duncan get 0 :crazy:

That's what we're all wondering. It's the Kobe fans - not the Laker fans. Laker fans know the difference between Kareem/Magic and Kobe. Even they're laughing at the clowns who voted for Kobe.

This site is becoming a joke with the ignorance/hate towards anyone not named Kobe.

rico
07-10-2008, 03:11 AM
wow im the first one to pick oscar.. i wanted to sya wilt so bad, but big O = triple double machine. SO many good players near the top,

GregOden#1
07-10-2008, 03:18 AM
Wilt is not the 2nd greatest player of all-time, it's about making other people better as well as playing great, only 2 titles as the man does not give Wilt the edge over Magic and Kareem. Wilt was great statistically but it did not translate into titles, only 2 rings and he had talented players around him, I am sorry but he doesn't get my vote as the 2nd best all time.

Then you should be picking Bill Russell at the #1 spot instead of being biased towards Laker players. Follow the criteria or dont bother voting.

stawka
07-10-2008, 03:30 AM
LOL Kobe with 9 votes and counting. I want to see how many Kobe lovers will actually vote for him, and of those - how many are loyal to the Lakers

Lakersfan2483
07-10-2008, 03:50 AM
Then you should be picking Bill Russell at the #1 spot instead of being biased towards Laker players. Follow the criteria or dont bother voting.

Your statement shows your ignorance in terms of basketball, Michael Jordan was my no. 1 player, Magic no. 2. Bill Russell was a great player but he is not no. 1, how many teams played back then, 8 if I am correct. The league has changed and players have gotten better. For you to say I am biased to laker players is ridiculous. Give me your case for Magic not being no. 2 or Kareem not being no. 3.

Kareem is the leagues all-time leading scorer, 6 titles, 6 MVPs
Magic- 9 finals appearances as the leader of the team, 3 mvps, 5 rings, Magic played and dominated during the hardest era in basketball, look it up!!

Lakersfan2483
07-10-2008, 03:53 AM
Then you should be picking Bill Russell at the #1 spot instead of being biased towards Laker players. Follow the criteria or dont bother voting.

Your argument for Russell is ridiculous, he had 11 titles, that's great, was the talent better back then or has it gotten better now?? Magic and MJ dominated the game during the toughest eras of basketball.

Lakersfan2483
07-10-2008, 03:54 AM
Then you should be picking Bill Russell at the #1 spot instead of being biased towards Laker players. Follow the criteria or dont bother voting.


Magic NO. 2, CASE CLOSED!!!

JordansBulls
07-10-2008, 07:55 AM
Your argument for Russell is ridiculous, he had 11 titles, that's great, was the talent better back then or has it gotten better now?? Magic and MJ dominated the game during the toughest eras of basketball.


I don't care if you're a Kobe fan or not, but people gotta stop this "that era was crap blah blah" bull. Eras are always gonna be different, enough of this "what could've/couldn't've been" bull, just accept and look at what ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

lavis
07-10-2008, 07:59 AM
Shaq. Because he got a vasectomy.

JordansBulls
07-10-2008, 08:00 AM
magic was number one on my list and jordan three because, kobe for 1 scored 81 points 2.he was able to play through rough times, 2005 as jordan, everybody was hanging on his u know what even the whole league office, and kobe everybody hated him and he still tore it up and kobe has better d than jordan

Ridiculous, how about you prove this?

Kobe has never finished top 2 in DPOY Voting nor has he ever won the award.

Kobe scoring 81 points is by far the worst argument ever. Should we say Dirk is better than Magic because he scored 50 points in the playoffs and Magic never did?
How about should we say that Elgin Baylor is the GOAT because he scored 61 in the finals?


First off Kobe's best PER is as good as MJ's career average PER.

Next off is the following:

Also, Kobe in the finals. This is how they performed in the finals.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/zillgitt/2004-06-15-zillgitt_x.htm

In 35 Finals games, Jordan averaged 33.6 points, 6.0 rebounds and 6.0 assists a game.

In 25 Finals games, Bryant has averaged 23.0 points, 5.1 rebounds and 4.9 assists a game.


MVP's - Jordan = 5; Kobe = 1

Titles - Jordan = 6 (as the #1 Option); Kobe = 3 (in the shadow of another)

Finals MVP's - Jordan = 6; Kobe = 0

DPOY - Jordan = 1; Kobe = 0

Scoring Titles - Jordan = 10; Kobe = 2

Career PPG - Jordan = 30.1 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 25.0

Playoffs PPG - Jordan = 33.4 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 24.3

Playoff Points - Jordan = 5987 - Most Ever Points (179 games); Kobe = 3686 (152 games)

FG% - Jordan - 50% Career; Kobe = 45% Career Thus Far

Playoff FG% - Jordan = 49% Career; Kobe = 45% Career Thus Far

PER (Offensive and Defensive Rating) - Jordan Career = 27.91 (highest ever); Kobe = 23.57

Steals - Jordan = 2.4 SPG Career (with 3 Steals Titles); Kobe = 1.5 SPG

Blocks - Jordan = 0.8 BPG Career (most blocks ever for a guard); Kobe = 0.6


Jordan was the 1st player to ever record 200 steals and 100 blocks the same season and he did so twice.


So all in all, Kobe needs to win at least 4 titles as the best player on his team and collect all the finals mvp's and he needs another 2-3 league mvp's while leading the league in PER multiple times, as well as win shares, player wins, ows. He will need to get a 30+ ppg scoring average in the season, playoffs and finals as well and shoot over 50% in a few seasons in the league.

Kobe is a great player but to consider a player even close to the best all time when they never won as the best player on their own team is putting them much higher than they should be rated.



The only thing Kobe really has on Jordan is the 3 pt range (which
Jordan was not bad at when he decided to take them, but onyl shot 1.66
a game on his career, Kobe is at 3.5), and arguably a better handle
(and Jordan had a really good handle, just wasn't and1 stuff). Jordan
is more creative in the lane, a better finisher, better mid-range and
in the post, the better passer, better offensive rebounder, shot
higher percentages, and turned it over less. Yes, Kobe is insane and
probably the best guy in the league right now...but better than
Mike? I think that's going too far.
And why is Jordan not getting credit for better shot selection?
Decision making isn't a skill?

Jordan 87-93 was pretty special, over 7 seasons he averaged 33.2 ppg
on 52% from the field. Again, that's a 7 season average. Looking at
points per 100 possessions, Jordan torches Kobe. Kobe has averaged 111
on his career, topping out at 114. Jordan averaged 118 on his career (11 above the league average in those
seasons), hitting 125, and with 5 seasons at 123+. In 96 he was 24
pp100p better than the league average. Kobe at his best was 12 above
the league average (and 7 above league average on his career).

I don't know what world we are living in when better efficiency on a
larger volume, with better decision making, passing, less turnovers,
better offensive rebounding, post game, mid-range game, creating shots
and finishing in the lane, superior strength and athleticism, is all
outweighed by having more range. Personally, I think it is likely
Jordan could have developed similar range, but it would take away from
a deadly efficient, well balanced game. The differences in the skill
level aren't big, but all things considered, one player is definitely
better than the other.


There's a difference between being a 6 time MVP, 6 time Finals MVP who has legendary Finals performances and 5 of them in the top 15 and all 6 in the top 25 and a long long list of accomplishments, and being a 3 time champ as a sidekick who played poorly in 2 out of 3 Finals series. Who never won MVP, and has pretty much stunk it up 4 out of 5 Finals trips and has no top 50 finals performances.


This is ridiculous anyway for a guy who was a sidekick and never won as the man to be getting more votes than the guy who led the team to 3 titles in Shaq.

fredv
07-10-2008, 11:07 AM
I don't understand how a guy like Kobe Bryant can even be on this list...

"WhatIf"
07-10-2008, 11:55 AM
I don't understand how a guy like Kobe Bryant can even be on this list...
I was debating putting him on the list, but this list represents all of PSD, even the homer Kobe fans.

Iodine
07-10-2008, 11:58 AM
JB just took a shat on Kobe

lakers4sho
07-10-2008, 12:42 PM
Magic Johnson. His versatility and skill can be compared to no other.

GregOden#1
07-10-2008, 02:14 PM
Your statement shows your ignorance in terms of basketball, Michael Jordan was my no. 1 player, Magic no. 2. Bill Russell was a great player but he is not no. 1, how many teams played back then, 8 if I am correct. The league has changed and players have gotten better. For you to say I am biased to laker players is ridiculous. Give me your case for Magic not being no. 2 or Kareem not being no. 3.

Kareem is the leagues all-time leading scorer, 6 titles, 6 MVPs
Magic- 9 finals appearances as the leader of the team, 3 mvps, 5 rings, Magic played and dominated during the hardest era in basketball, look it up!!

And Wilt has more individual accomplishments than both of them put together AND he dominated against the toughest center competition the league has ever seen. He should be your #1 then, stop being a homer and follow your criteria.


Your argument for Russell is ridiculous, he had 11 titles, that's great, was the talent better back then or has it gotten better now?? Magic and MJ dominated the game during the toughest eras of basketball.

Neither, to say any era is better than another era is showing ignorance about a subject. If you can give me a plausable argument as to why any era in basketball was better than another era I will gladly admit I was wrong. But this topic has been argued to death and the conclusion has always been that any differences in era are small. You cannot use the era Russell played in as an excuse to rate Laker players above rival teams player. If you believe Rings are all-important than Russell is your #1, if you believe individual accomplishments are all important, than Wilt is your #1. If you want a balance between the two, than Kareem or Jordan is your #1. Magic Johnson does not enter into the conversation. I'm sorry if that upsets you, but it is the truth.

Dynasty
07-10-2008, 02:55 PM
Wilt. It ain't esay scoring 100.

BigEric
07-10-2008, 03:05 PM
I voted Russell because he has like 9 rings.

Iodine
07-10-2008, 03:06 PM
I voted Russell because he has like 9 rings.

try 11

Raekwon :pity:'s this post

shinjirod
07-10-2008, 03:11 PM
Hakeem Olajuwon. Best big man in the game in my opinion. His finesse and skills were the best ever for a center in my opinion, and if he had faced the bigs of the past, it wouldve been a more than awesome battle. Also, he stood out in an era plagued with great center, like Ewing, Shaq, Zo, and Robinson.


All the Kobe votes, well, i dunno what to make of them. Its incredible people are voting for someone whos career isn't over, and, as it is, his numbers are not good enough to even be considered in this talk. Everyones entitled to their opinion, but i dont really think Kobe's even enar of being a 2 of all time.

Jambox5000
07-10-2008, 03:18 PM
Yes, It may be cut down to 50 if people become less interested.

Good luck getting to 5...seriously.

PHX-SOXFAN
07-10-2008, 03:20 PM
why does kobe have a single vote, let alone 11? There are waaaay better players up on that list guys and we just watched a finals to make these 11 votes seem ridiculous.

I say Bill Russell, consumate team player and always beat wilt. Many think he could have scored at will as well but focused on the team, defense and rebounding.

PHX-SOXFAN
07-10-2008, 03:22 PM
magic was number one on my list and jordan three because, kobe for 1 scored 81 points 2.he was able to play through rough times, 2005 as jordan, everybody was hanging on his u know what even the whole league office, and kobe everybody hated him and he still tore it up and kobe has better d than jordan

just stop, or keep it coming and feed the perception.

I'll let Jordansbulls responses take care of positions like this.

PrymaL
07-10-2008, 04:07 PM
Stop saying Bill Russell, here ill put it in simple terms. Playing against people half your size doesnt count.

Iodine
07-10-2008, 04:11 PM
Stop saying Bill Russell, here ill put it in simple terms. Playing against people half your size doesnt count.

So wilt was half his size right?

AllTheWay
07-10-2008, 04:15 PM
Magic

AllTheWay
07-10-2008, 04:17 PM
why does kobe have a single vote, let alone 11? There are waaaay better players up on that list guys and we just watched a finals to make these 11 votes seem ridiculous.

I say Bill Russell, consumate team player and always beat wilt. Many think he could have scored at will as well but focused on the team, defense and rebounding.

He had a horrible PER though

I think it has to be wilt or Magic

PHX-SOXFAN
07-10-2008, 04:21 PM
Stop saying Bill Russell, here ill put it in simple terms. Playing against people half your size doesnt count.

interesting statement considering his record against wilt:rolleyes:

grega1976
07-10-2008, 04:41 PM
Stop saying Bill Russell, here ill put it in simple terms. Playing against people half your size doesnt count.

try again, Russell was only 6'9".. Most of the C's of the era were in the 6'7"-6'10" range.. except for wilt and a few others...

kobe2008mvp
07-10-2008, 04:49 PM
grega1976 stop hating on kobe u too _supreme_ just cuz he's great doesn't mean you guys have to hate him. it's like me saying why is tim duncan on this list. just enjoy kobe play thats all you guys have to do stop hating please.and i don't hang on Kobe's balls i'm just telling you guys to appreciate his game.

PHX-SOXFAN
07-10-2008, 04:54 PM
grega1976 stop hating on kobe u too _supreme_ just cuz he's great doesn't mean you guys have to hate him. it's like me saying why is tim duncan on this list. just enjoy kobe play thats all you guys have to do stop hating please.and i don't hang on Kobe's balls i'm just telling you guys to appreciate his game.

yet you voted for him in this poll:confused:. Actions speak louder than words

kobe2008mvp
07-10-2008, 04:58 PM
jordan bulls kobe finished first along with kg in 1st place votes for dpoy but kg got more second place votes so therefor he won . somkobe has finished 1st or second on the dpoy award.

ARMIN12NBA
07-10-2008, 04:59 PM
grega1976 stop hating on kobe u too _supreme_ just cuz he's great doesn't mean you guys have to hate him. it's like me saying why is tim duncan on this list. just enjoy kobe play thats all you guys have to do stop hating please.and i don't hang on Kobe's balls i'm just telling you guys to appreciate his game.

Nobody wants to appreciate his game because as one writer said, anybody who will ever come close to challenging the MJ status will be hated because to people around the world, MJ can't do anything wrong even when he does.

P.S. I don't think Kobe is better than MJ yet, but people, appreciate what this guy does out on the floor. He is the second most COMPLETE player of all time in terms of skill and by the way, the guy has loads of accomplishments. He has no GLARING weakness while every other player besides MJ does. Magic- poor defense, poor outside shooting. Wilt- poor free throw shooting, poor outside shooting (i know it's not fair because hes a center but its true tho). Etc. Etc. Kobe is the most complete player of all time besides MJ.

Gmen824
07-10-2008, 05:09 PM
Has to be Bill Russel 11 rings IS RIDICULOUS, he has to put one on his chain or hold it!!!

JordansBulls
07-10-2008, 05:33 PM
jordan bulls kobe finished first along with kg in 1st place votes for dpoy but kg got more second place votes so therefor he won . somkobe has finished 1st or second on the dpoy award.

I'm not sure where you got Kobe was 2nd in Voting because here were the results

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.html#dpoy

He was 5th overall.


In the year before in 2007 shown below he was 24th in Defensive Player of the year voting and made the 1st team, which is absolutely ridiculous. It's like a player being #20 in MVP voting making the all nba first team.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2007.html#dpoy


In 2006 he wasn't even in the voting and made the defensive first team.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2006.html#dpoy


In 2004 he was 10th in Defensive player of the year voting but somehow made it as well.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2004.html#dpoy

kobe2008mvp
07-10-2008, 05:37 PM
armin12nba your right everybody has a weakness besides kobe except he might have just one and thats haters who don't appreciate him for how special a player he is. there will never be another jordan thats for sure but there will also never be another kobe and that's all i have to say to you haters. when he retires
i swear to god he will be one of the top 5 greatest players of all-time. this is my prediction for the rest of his career 1 or two more mvp trophys. 2-4 more titles and maby just maby 1 defensive player of the year award and who knows he might even be the scoring champion this coming year as well. go lakers!

JordansBulls
07-10-2008, 05:39 PM
Nobody wants to appreciate his game because as one writer said, anybody who will ever come close to challenging the MJ status will be hated because to people around the world, MJ can't do anything wrong even when he does.

P.S. I don't think Kobe is better than MJ yet, but people, appreciate what this guy does out on the floor. He is the second most COMPLETE player of all time in terms of skill and by the way, the guy has loads of accomplishments. He has no GLARING weakness while every other player besides MJ does. Magic- poor defense, poor outside shooting. Wilt- poor free throw shooting, poor outside shooting (i know it's not fair because hes a center but its true tho). Etc. Etc. Kobe is the most complete player of all time besides MJ.


No it's because Kobe hasn't passed many guys. Tell me how could a guy who since the Finals MVP award has been around has been in 5 finals but yet has no top 50 finals performances and was on the list for one of the top 10 worst finals ever?

It's obvious Kobe has acccomplishments but they pale in comparison with the legends of the nba who have done more.

For example,

Here were the requirements

This is how it broke down each category:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2003-02-06-dupree-team_x.htm


This is how it broke down each category:
NBA MVP awards won (five points each)
NBA championships won (five points each)
All-Star Games selected to play in (one point each)
All-NBA first-team selections (two points each)
All-defensive first team (one point each)
NBA Finals MVP awards (two points each)
All-Star MVP awards (one point each)
Individual statistical titles (two points each) restricted to points, rebounds, assists, field goal percentage and free throw percentage, the stats the league has used the longest
Career averages (six points each) if a player is the NBA career leader in scoring average, rebounds, assists, field goal percentage or free throw percentage
Career playoff averages (five points each) for each category the player leads


That was the criteria used

1st Place: MJ, 149 total points
2nd Place: Wilt, 124 total points
3rd Place: Bill, 118 total points
4th Place: Jabbar, 114 total points
5th Place: Magic, 102 total points


All Numbers Updated thru 2008 Season.
Now adding up the current players you get (Active Players):
1st Place: Shaq, 85 total points
2nd Place: Tim, 71 total points
3rd Place: Kobe, 54 total points


So you have 5 guys at over 100 points and then you have the top 3 current guys.

So Kobe is not even top in his own era.

And oh, enough with this skill stuff, skill means nothing without the results.

A person being smart means nothing if they don't do well on the exams or screening for a company.

Iodine
07-10-2008, 05:44 PM
armin12nba your right everybody has a weakness besides kobe except he might have just one and thats haters who don't appreciate him for how special a player he is. there will never be another jordan thats for sure but there will also never be another kobe and that's all i have to say to you haters. when he retires
i swear to god he will be one of the top 5 greatest players of all-time. this is my prediction for the rest of his career 1 or two more mvp trophys. 2-4 more titles and maby just maby 1 defensive player of the year award and who knows he might even be the scoring champion this coming year as well. go lakers!

I love how you use all the stats and facts to support this

JordansBulls
07-10-2008, 05:48 PM
armin12nba your right everybody has a weakness besides kobe except he might have just one and thats haters who don't appreciate him for how special a player he is. there will never be another jordan thats for sure but there will also never be another kobe and that's all i have to say to you haters. when he retires
i swear to god he will be one of the top 5 greatest players of all-time. this is my prediction for the rest of his career 1 or two more mvp trophys. 2-4 more titles and maby just maby 1 defensive player of the year award and who knows he might even be the scoring champion this coming year as well. go lakers!

Then how the hell are you saying he is the 2nd greatest now when he hasn't shown he can win as the team's best player like Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem, Russell, etc?

NBAkYD
07-10-2008, 06:21 PM
THis is almost as obvious as Jordan as #1, its Wilt

chad311k9
07-10-2008, 09:21 PM
grega1976 stop hating on kobe u too _supreme_ just cuz he's great doesn't mean you guys have to hate him. it's like me saying why is tim duncan on this list. just enjoy kobe play thats all you guys have to do stop hating please.and i don't hang on Kobe's balls i'm just telling you guys to appreciate his game.

this guy loves hanging on kobe's balls so much he had to put kobe in his name. :laugh:

Iodine
07-10-2008, 11:46 PM
are you referring to him leaving Kobe for Miami? if so that is the funniest damn thing i've ever heard!:laugh:
No he is refering to shaq having his balls lopped off

ManRam
07-10-2008, 11:50 PM
Magic Johnson is laughing at the fact that he only has four more votes than Kobe. Kareem is contemplating suicide.

I respect Kobe, and think he's definitely top ten, maybe top 5 if you stretch it...but any Laker fan who has followed the team for a long time (more than 10 years) will tell you that former Lakers Magic and Kareem, and definitely Wilt are better than Kobe. Kobe is great, but he isn't even the best Laker ever, far from it.

AllTheWay
07-11-2008, 12:02 AM
Magic Johnson is laughing at the fact that he only has four more votes than Kobe. Kareem is contemplating suicide.

I respect Kobe, and think he's definitely top ten, maybe top 5 if you stretch it...but any Laker fan who has followed the team for a long time (more than 10 years) will tell you that former Lakers Magic and Kareem, and definitely Wilt are better than Kobe. Kobe is great, but he isn't even the best Laker ever, far from it.

:)

QFT

chad311k9
07-11-2008, 12:07 AM
and for those of you making an argument that Kobe will win 5 more championships, and 5 more scoring titles, and 5 more MVPs etc.........

this voting is based on accomplishments, not wishful thinking.

saying Kobe is #2 would be like saying Kevin Durant is #2 best player ever, he will win 5 championships etc....... it's yet to see if Durant will have any success. just because he has the skill potential to go down as a top 10 all time(AT THE END OF HIS CAREER), i'm not going to make that vote. SO STOP VOTING FOR KOBE! can the thread author please take kobe off the voting until after top 15 are voted in, so these threads can stop becoming kobe "nut hanging" threads!

JordansBulls
07-11-2008, 12:13 AM
and for those of you making an argument that Kobe will win 5 more championships, and 5 more scoring titles, and 5 more MVPs etc.........

this voting is based on accomplishments, not wishful thinking.

saying Kobe is #2 would be like saying Kevin Durant is #2 best player ever, he will win 5 championships etc....... it's yet to see if Durant will have any success. just because he has the skill potential to go down as a top 10 all time(AT THE END OF HIS CAREER), i'm not going to make that vote. SO STOP VOTING FOR KOBE! can the thread author please take kobe off the voting until after top 15 are voted in, so these threads can stop becoming kobe "nut hanging" threads!

A case can be made perhaps for top 10 at the #10 spot if anything, but nothing higher than that at this point in time.

chad311k9
07-11-2008, 12:17 AM
^whatever. 10-15 same thing. somewhere around there.

THE MTL
07-11-2008, 01:09 AM
If Kobe goes before Top 10, then this whole experiment needs to be ended.
There are so many players BETTER than Kobe. Tim Duncan and Shaq are active players that are better than Kobe.

Seriously, some of yall need to get off Kobe's nuts. Lebron James is better than Kobe and I can crush any debate that says otherwise.

Anyway, I vote for Wilt Chamberlain. You cant deny his statistics.

THE MTL
07-11-2008, 01:12 AM
So voting is over for the #1 player and your #1 player of all time is...

Michael Jordan

http://www.soleredemption.com/pics/2006/04/michael_jordan.JPG

30.1 PPG | 6.2 RPG | 5.3 APG | 2.3 STL | .497 FG% |

Achievements:
14 time All-Star
6 NBA Championships
'85 Rookie Of The Year
5 Time MVP
6 Time Finals MVP
3 Time All-Star Game MVP
'88 Defensive Player of the Year
10 Time All-NBA First Teamer
1 Time All-NBA Second Teamer
9 Time All-Defensive First Teamer
Led the League in scoring 10 times
Led the League in steals 3 times
Led the League in PER 8 times

Michael Jordan = 124 votes
Wilt Chamberlain = 15 votes
Bill Russell = 6 votes
Magic Johnson = 4 votes
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar = 3 votes
Hakeem Olajuwon = 3 votes
Larry Bird = 1 vote
Kobe Bryant = 1 vote

The list:
1. Michael Jordan

Voting will now begin for the second best player of all time.

Take Kobe name off the list. There are far too many people on this forum that clearly do not know basketball. Kobe is on his way to being the Top 4 player in NBA history. Thats NBA history! Control this thread my friend. Cause everyone with the least bit of common sense knows Kobe shouldnt crack the Top 10.

Seriously if Kobe goes 4th overall then i know alot of people will stop voting.

chad311k9
07-11-2008, 01:38 AM
i will stop voting if kobe doesn't get taken off as a choice for #3. he can fall under the "other" catergory for now. when i see his name in a list with michael jordan, magic johnson, larry bird, kareem, bill russell, and wilt chamberlain, it makes me :puke:

cmellofan15
07-11-2008, 01:43 AM
well 2 b the best u hav 2 b the best at ur postion first (which isnt kobe) giv it 2 a real legend who deserves

chicagowhitesox
07-11-2008, 01:03 PM
Wilt, even though his numbers were obviously enhanced because of the era he played in.

LAKERMANIA
07-11-2008, 01:08 PM
Lmao, ok. We'll be busy for a long while then.

But I can tell you right now this will amount to nothing, and with all the homers and little kids on the site the end result will not have much value. It will mainly be a ranking dictated by how many fans certain players have on this site.

if that were the case Kobe would have been #1.. Don't be a douche, you don't like this then don't post in it no one cares..

Liney3506
07-11-2008, 01:53 PM
It's Magic. We're talking about a player who made his team better in every aspect of the game. He could shoot, pass, defend, and play every single position on the floor. Wilt was dominant in a time where there wasn't competition, other than Bill Russell.

SHONIE
07-11-2008, 05:19 PM
:D
I know of atleast 1 person who will become less interested if Kobe is in the top 5

no, you know two :D

LAKERMANIA
07-11-2008, 05:42 PM
Why does Wilt have so many votes when in other threads almost everyone has him as the 2nd best Center of all time behind Kareem?

"WhatIf"
07-11-2008, 06:06 PM
The #3 thread will be put up soon, but Kobe will be taken off the list. You can still vote for him, but I want reasons because there is no reason for Kobe to be 3rd in the voting.

chad311k9
07-11-2008, 06:11 PM
The #3 thread will be put up soon, but Kobe will be taken off the list. You can still vote for him, but I want reasons because there is no reason for Kobe to be 3rd in the voting.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

you are a good man, and have earned my respcect!