PDA

View Full Version : Which team made the better move?



phlp_bj
07-08-2008, 10:25 PM
express your thoughts

The A Team
07-08-2008, 11:13 PM
The Cubs. Don't underestimate the impact Gaudin could have either. I'm a little concerned that Harden may already be banged up, since the A's didn't hold out for Vitters.

Actually that's a lie, I'm not at all concerned. I hate poorly managed teams and Jim Hendry's Cubs certainly meet the criteria of poorly managed. When the Cubs have a 170 million payroll and declining players 3 years from now, remember who's to blame (Mr. Hendry). They're already down to 1 prospect.

Havoc Wreaker
07-08-2008, 11:18 PM
Cubs, Murton can be a stud, and gallaghers best is #3 starter, patterson = endy chavez, and i have no idea who the other 2 are

Harden = When healthy Lights Out
Gaudin = Excellent Reliever, and Could also be a #3 starter

Ph1lly Diehard
07-08-2008, 11:41 PM
Brewers.

Cubs got a Mark Prior type of player. When he's healthy, he is just absolutly fithy. But he's so injury prone, it's not funny.

If Harden stays healthy though, then I say the Cubs.

Indiana
07-08-2008, 11:42 PM
The Cubs gave up players who you have a fair idea of where their ceilings are. Murton is at best average, nothing against him, but he is not the difference IMO between a playoff team and a non playoff team. Patterson actually might be something special someday, I guess we will see. Remember he did miss two meetings because he overslept in spring training. Gallagher, I like, but he is not Harden, maybe he will be but today he isn't. The Brewers gave up guys that could be difference makers down the road, IMO no losers in either of these deals, except the Indians, and they got prospects for a guy who was leaving at the end of the season, so they salvaged something at least.

Indiana
07-08-2008, 11:51 PM
The Cubs gave up players who you have a fair idea of where their ceilings are. Murton is at best average, nothing against him, but he is not the difference IMO between a playoff team and a non playoff team. Patterson actually might be something special someday, I guess we will see. Remember he did miss two meetings because he overslept in spring training. Gallagher, I like, but he is not Harden, maybe he will be but today he isn't. The Brewers gave up guys that could be difference makers down the road, IMO no losers in either of these deals, except the Indians, and they got prospects for a guy who was leaving at the end of the season, so they salvaged something at least.

By the way, the only reason I say the Indians are losers in this is because 3 of the 4 teams have made moves that will help them in some way get into the playoffs this season, the Indians are not going to the playoffs.

metsfreak
07-08-2008, 11:52 PM
Gotta go with CC to the Brewers with Harden's injury past

Zaunnie
07-08-2008, 11:56 PM
harden = the canadian equivalent of prior

kyubi256
07-09-2008, 12:02 AM
For this season...

The Brewers b/c Harden is injury prone...

But for next season and above... the Cubs b/c they traded away a lot and will lose everything when they lose CC

BigEric
07-09-2008, 12:25 AM
Brewers.

Cubs got a Mark Prior type of player. When he's healthy, he is just absolutly fithy. But he's so injury prone, it's not funny.

If Harden stays healthy though, then I say the Cubs.

Agreed.

DanTHEman9990
07-09-2008, 12:47 AM
The Cubs simply because they gave up a lot less...

Murton is an average player, decent contact and obp but no power for an outfielder and defensively average, should only be a 4th outfielder.

Gallagher will be a good #3, but harden is better.

There is no room to play patterson and defensively he has no position.

Donaldson is a good prospect but we have soto at C and Tony Thomas as the better 2b prospect.

Laporta on the other hand will be a stud, and is far better than anyone the cubs gave up.

Swish-Cab-Ob
07-09-2008, 01:06 AM
Until Harden can stay healthy for an entire season, I gotz to go wit CC

matt_the_hulk
07-09-2008, 01:31 AM
Cubs, definitely gave up less. If anybody watched the Cubs, the only person that they would've used in the future is Gallagher since the other three players are blocked. The Brewers gave up a blue chip prospect and others for eleven starts when they damn well know they aren't passing the Cubs. Better hope for a wildcard berth Brewer fans.

Max Power
07-09-2008, 01:35 AM
A good move for both teams.

The Brewers picked up CC to get to the postseason.

The Cubs got Harden to improve their chances in the postseason.

It will take a few months to see if both were successful. I think they will be.

DewsSox79
07-09-2008, 01:43 AM
harden = the canadian equivalent of prior

rofl!!!

WOwolfOL
07-09-2008, 01:49 AM
Both teams made good deals considering none of the players really had spots on the teams... Gallagher did, but it really stacks their rotation.

Harden ISN'T A RENTAL, and they have the means to extend him when it comes time.

IMO, getting Gaudin just pushes the Cubs over the edge.

jcs88
07-09-2008, 01:50 AM
It's gotta be CC...Harden is a better pitcher than CC but he's a complete walking injury...so I think CC is more reliable for the remainder of the year...plus the Brewers will get the draft pick when CC walks

Sc00py
07-09-2008, 01:56 AM
I like the brewers deal more. CC is durable and you can rely on him going out and pitching every 5 days.

The Brewers giving up Laporta shouldn't factor into this decision. The brewers farm system is loaded with hitters. They have no spot for Laporta with Hart and Braun at the corner OF positions and Fielder at 1B. He was expendable.

I do like the addition of Gaudin though. I can't figure out why the As threw him in there!

JDIsMyGod23
07-09-2008, 01:58 AM
As the way it looks right now. CC. Harden could be dead tomorrow with his history. The real winner will be decided by mid-August. But, I do like the addition of Gaudin too. I also don't get that.

WOwolfOL
07-09-2008, 02:00 AM
I like the brewers deal more. CC is durable and you can rely on him going out and pitching every 5 days.

The Brewers giving up Laporta shouldn't factor into this decision. The brewers farm system is loaded with hitters. They have no spot for Laporta with Hart and Braun at the corner OF positions and Fielder at 1B. He was expendable.

I do like the addition of Gaudin though. I can't figure out why the As threw him in there!

Anatomy Of The Deal

Cubs general manager Jim Hendry checked in from time to time throughout June with Oakland general manager Billy Beane about the availability of Rich Harden, and their conversations traveled down the same path: Yes, Harden was available, but only at the right price, and that price would include right-handed pitcher Sean Gallagher. And Hendry indicated, repeatedly, that Gallagher wasn't available.

On Sunday evening -- the same night when word broke that the Brewers had worked out a deal for CC Sabathia -- Hendry indicated to Beane for the first time that he would make Gallagher available in a Harden deal, but it would create a problem: If Gallagher was traded, the Cubs wouldn't have the kind of depth they needed to deal with an injury.

"Let me call you back," Beane said.

Beane had an idea. He could fill Hendry's need for depth by adding veteran swingman Chad Gaudin in the trade. He phoned Hendry back on Monday night with the suggestion. "That could work," Hendry said, and the two general managers began piecing together other parts of the trade. Beane called Hendry with a detail of the trade very late on Monday night, California time, figuring the call would switch over to voice mail on Hendry's cell phone because it was so late.

But Hendry answered the phone, wide awake. "Jim, what are doing awake?" Beane asked.

"I'm just laying here on my couch," Hendry said.

Some 15 hours later, the trade was finished. Oakland got Gallagher, a pitching prospect with a more stable medical history than Harden, and the Cubs got a high-risk, high-reward talent in Harden.

----

I assume the deal didn't include Donaldson til Beane threw in Gaudin. In the A's system, Donaldson could turn out to be pretty damn special. The Cubs will regret losing him more than EPat and Murton.

Wrigleyboy25
07-09-2008, 02:03 AM
Harden has a team option for just 7 million for 2009. The Cubs gave up a lot less, got an extra starter in Gaudin and have a player locked in for next year. He's not just a half season rental.

The Brewers gave up a top prospect in baseball for a guy they will only have for a few months.

The Brewers got the safer pitcher, but the Cubs got one just as good, for longer, for less...assuming he can stay healthy. And that's a big assumption. I think it's really impossible to say which was a better move.

TheBatchelor213
07-09-2008, 02:12 AM
Cubs. Brewers gave up alot for a rental and wont even make the playoffs.

Wrigleyboy25
07-09-2008, 02:17 AM
I assume the deal didn't include Donaldson til Beane threw in Gaudin. In the A's system, Donaldson could turn out to be pretty damn special. The Cubs will regret losing him more than EPat and Murton.

It'll be tough for him to be better than Soto. And we are going to be keeping Geo around for a long time. I really don't see the harm in using Donaldson in the deal. He and Murton were expendable.

The losses were Patterson and Gallagher.

x_notorious
07-09-2008, 02:22 AM
If Harden stays healthy, it is def. the Cubs. He is pitching lights out this year:

2.34 ERA/92 K's/1.14 WHIP

Sabathia will most likely be wearing a different uniform next year since he is going to command top dollar, plus, the Brew Crew gave up a big prospect for a rental.

When healthy, Harden pitches very well, look at his statistics. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/harderi01.shtml). He is very injury-proned though (2 DL stints already this season). For the Cubs to get the max out of him, he needs to stay healthy.

NL Central is stacked right now.

WOwolfOL
07-09-2008, 02:26 AM
It'll be tough for him to be better than Soto. And we are going to be keeping Geo around for a long time. I really don't see the harm in using Donaldson in the deal. He and Murton were expendable.

The losses were Patterson and Gallagher.

I don't regret anything about the deal, I just think Donaldson will develop in the A's system and become a pretty good slugger. Obviously none of the players had places on the roster, so you're right, we won't really regret losing them.

I don't even consider EPat a loss.

Ragun
07-09-2008, 10:52 AM
The Brewers because Sabathia has a much lesser chance of getting injured.

chicagowhitesox
07-09-2008, 01:40 PM
I hope Harden gets injured his first start. It's not that far-fetched of an idea, either. But they got an absolute steal in that trade. That's like the ChiSox trading Charlie Haeger, Danny Richar, Esteban Loiza, and Juan Uribe for Josh Beckett and Jonathan Papelbon. It was just completely unfair.

Cub_StuckinSTL
07-09-2008, 02:10 PM
I hope Harden gets injured his first start. It's not that far-fetched of an idea, either. But they got an absolute steal in that trade. That's like the ChiSox trading Charlie Haeger, Danny Richar, Esteban Loiza, and Juan Uribe for Josh Beckett and Jonathan Papelbon. It was just completely unfair.

Never would have guessed that sort of response from a sox fan....

rriders9
07-09-2008, 02:27 PM
its the cubs because not only did they get two quality pitchers, they have harden for beyond this season, and they have the payroll to re-sign if they want. Sabathia is gone after this season

C-ross12
07-09-2008, 02:30 PM
I hope Harden gets injured his first start. It's not that far-fetched of an idea, either. But they got an absolute steal in that trade. That's like the ChiSox trading Charlie Haeger, Danny Richar, Esteban Loiza, and Juan Uribe for Josh Beckett and Jonathan Papelbon. It was just completely unfair.

Lol oh my you dead on there.

Cub_StuckinSTL
07-09-2008, 02:37 PM
its the cubs because not only did they get two quality pitchers, they have harden for beyond this season, and they have the payroll to re-sign if they want. Sabathia is gone after this season

I dont see us going after CC but could you imagine?
Zambrano
Harden
CC
Demp
Lilly?
Holy ****

sanfranfan1210
07-09-2008, 05:47 PM
I think the Cubs did

gours17
07-09-2008, 06:15 PM
I dont see us going after CC but could you imagine?
Zambrano
Harden
CC
Demp
Lilly?
Holy ****

x2 absolutley sick rotation even if demp falls back a little

Eightyfive Y'aw
07-09-2008, 06:34 PM
Gotta like CC but who knows. EPat sorta was hitting but so did his bro for awhile before he faded, defensively he was suckin out in left, Murton will bloom late he has alot of talent 'member Lou's comments...and Shawn i was a bit surprised they threw him in but the CUBs did well! We should have given em marquis instead of gallagher oops we should have slipped them a mickey then traded marquis instead of ... The Brewers sent a great message to their fans " You deserve this and we're going for it not later but NOW!" But the Cubs did a lil better side by side because I will go on record alone Harden will remain Healthy this season will freak out (man) about being a Cub and be so fricken motivated to dominate that we will be real tough. Facing the stud pitchers of the central will elavate us later in the playoffs and CC will sign with us next year! WHAT?

The A Team
07-09-2008, 06:35 PM
Dempster is signed through the end of this season. He may choose to go after a big contract via free agency. The Cubs payroll is set to escalate to 140 million just from salary increases. They still need to add onto that picking up odds and ends.

Something to consider in this discussion. This appeared in the A's forum.


I have been waiting all day to post this:

Michael Urban (writer for MLB.com) was on KHTK 1140 AM this morning(Sacramento) and said he heard rumors from very valuable sources that the Cubs have already talked about possibly putting Harden on the DL. His velocity was obviously down and the Cubs are worried. Urban also mentioned that Beane had told Hendry about the lack of velocity from Harden and Hendry didnt really care. In closing Urban said (of the deal) that whatever the Cubs get out of Harden, they deserve. If he gets hurt, that is what they get because they knew Harden was banged up, and if he stays healthy, that is what they get because they took a chance on Harden.

Uncle Funster
07-09-2008, 07:42 PM
CC's a Cy Young winner, pitched in a tough AL Division and doesn't have the injury history that Harden has.

Sc00py
07-09-2008, 08:07 PM
Brew Crew with CC

Lady's Man
07-09-2008, 09:27 PM
mark my words... that boi harden will be injured at somepoint dis season and if not, i will make my own 2 girls 1 cup video.