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View Full Version : Do you think a Team with Two Top 12-15 Players in the League should be a Contender?



JordansBulls
07-08-2008, 07:53 AM
Do you think a Team with Two Top 12-15 Players in the League should be a Contender?

I think they should be a Title Contender. They may not be the favorite but they should be one of the best teams in the league.

AgentViet
07-08-2008, 08:52 AM
Yes, especially if they compliment each other well, with one being a big guy and the other being a point or wing.

SwaggaIke
07-08-2008, 09:16 AM
No. The role players around the top players are just as important as the two players. Not to mention philosophy and coaching. Are the two players head cases? Or are they two stars that are willing to do what's best for the team to achieve the common goal.

frizbo72
07-08-2008, 09:17 AM
I don't care if they're the top two players in the league. If they don't play well together they don't win. I think the more well rounded teams are the ones to be considered as the contenders. Look at what Denver has done and even Houston. Both have two stars that are awesome but they don't have the roll players around them to get it done. Boston had the big three but it was a player like Posey that helped them win it all.

Crunchy12489
07-08-2008, 09:30 AM
I don't care if they're the top two players in the league. If they don't play well together they don't win. I think the more well rounded teams are the ones to be considered as the contenders. Look at what Denver has done and even Houston. Both have two stars that are awesome but they don't have the roll players around them to get it done. Boston had the big three but it was a player like Posey that helped them win it all.

Great post man.

I addressed the Houston and Denver problem earlier this morning.

That's the exact same thing that I mentioned.

I'm glad to see that someone else meets eye-to-eye with my theory rather than just hating on Melo, AI, T-Mac, and Yao. Most of these so called haters need to take a look at the box score of every game from HOU and DEN. Even if the two stars combine for more than 52 points, only like 3-5 other players only contribute a small amount on an inconsistent basis.

SwaggaIke
07-08-2008, 09:44 AM
Great post man.

I addressed the Houston and Denver problem earlier this morning.

That's the exact same thing that I mentioned.

I'm glad to see that someone else meets eye-to-eye with my theory rather than just hating on Melo, AI, T-Mac, and Yao. Most of these so called haters need to take a look at the box score of every game from HOU and DEN. Even if the two stars combine for more than 52 points, only like 3-5 other players only contribute a small amount on an inconsistent basis.

But now you're just taking pressure of guys. Melo and A.I need to make their team better. Camby, Smith, Martin, Kleiza, Najera. Those guys get it done in their respective fields. Denver is not even part of this equation. Until your team dedicates itself to defense, they'll never win. And that starts w/ your two stars. When the Heat won it all, even Shaq's fat *** was dedicated to defense. Him and Antoine Walker out hedging screens like I had never seen them do before. ***** parallel to the ground. Until your stars are willing to do that, they won't achieve anything. Denver has the secondary help to succeed. The Rockets are in right category. T Mac and Yao haven't had the necessary help to advance until last year. T Mac made others better and he's solid defensively. Houston has been a solid defensive unit for a while.

Denver and Houston aren't even in the same category. Denver's two stars don't even give the necessary defensive effort to succeed. I'm a huge Melo and AI fan, but they don't belong in the same category as Houston. A team that gives it all on both ends every night but just don't get the breaks.

TMAC94
07-08-2008, 10:00 AM
i reckon if its a PG and a PF or C yes

Crunchy12489
07-08-2008, 10:12 AM
But now you're just taking pressure of guys. Melo and A.I need to make their team better. Camby, Smith, Martin, Kleiza, Najera. Those guys get it done in their respective fields. Denver is not even part of this equation. Until your team dedicates itself to defense, they'll never win. And that starts w/ your two stars. When the Heat won it all, even Shaq's fat *** was dedicated to defense. Him and Antoine Walker out hedging screens like I had never seen them do before. ***** parallel to the ground. Until your stars are willing to do that, they won't achieve anything. Denver has the secondary help to succeed. The Rockets are in right category. T Mac and Yao haven't had the necessary help to advance until last year. T Mac made others better and he's solid defensively. Houston has been a solid defensive unit for a while.

Denver and Houston aren't even in the same category. Denver's two stars don't even give the necessary defensive effort to succeed. I'm a huge Melo and AI fan, but they don't belong in the same category as Houston. A team that gives it all on both ends every night but just don't get the breaks.

I agree some-what to what your saying... I mean it's obvious Nuggets play little to no defense, and we don't have guys like Scola and Battier hustling every second out there, but I mean if you lose games just to get knocked out of the first round every year, there's obviously a problem within the defense.

When you lose, that means you couldn't stop the other team from scoring, correct? So the whole 'defensive' speech you just explained to me and everyone on these forums was pointless... Because as we all know, Denver and Houston are first round knockouts. Losses point to flaws in defense.

That paragraph you wrote went absolutely no where.

Facts are facts. So I don't know how and why you would respond to factual information... Houston and Denver are very inconsistent... Very imbalanced...

SwaggaIke
07-08-2008, 10:23 AM
But Houston has been in the position to advance out of the first round. They played a tough Utah team w/ Yao and were a few minutes away from advancing. Last year they played them w/o Yao and put up a good showing. Denver doesn't even compete. They lose in 4 or 5 EVERY YEAR. Denver and Houston are in two different boats. Houston not even having the talent to advance in recent years. Denver having the talent but not willing to give the effort to advance in recent years. You're trying to make A.I and Melo look like the victims, when they are the problems. That's the point I was addressing. Houston is year in and year out one of the best defensive teams in the league. They are just haunted by injuries and lack of secondary play. Now they have guys that will step up and are in the position to advance, while Denver will continue to flounder in the first round. They are nothing like Yao and Tracy. If the Rockets had Kleiza and Smith off the bench and Martin starting...they'd be contending for a ship every year. You're trying to say that Denver has no secondary play, when they have multiple players contributing on the nightly basis. Houston doesn't. That puts them in two separate predicaments. That's not responding to facts, that's debating an incorrect point that you were trying to enforce.

Crunchy12489
07-08-2008, 10:55 AM
But Houston has been in the position to advance out of the first round. They played a tough Utah team w/ Yao and were a few minutes away from advancing. Last year they played them w/o Yao and put up a good showing. Denver doesn't even compete. They lose in 4 or 5 EVERY YEAR. Denver and Houston are in two different boats. Houston not even having the talent to advance in recent years. Denver having the talent but not willing to give the effort to advance in recent years. You're trying to make A.I and Melo look like the victims, when they are the problems. That's the point I was addressing. Houston is year in and year out one of the best defensive teams in the league. They are just haunted by injuries and lack of secondary play. Now they have guys that will step up and are in the position to advance, while Denver will continue to flounder in the first round. They are nothing like Yao and Tracy. If the Rockets had Kleiza and Smith off the bench and Martin starting...they'd be contending for a ship every year. You're trying to say that Denver has no secondary play, when they have multiple players contributing on the nightly basis. Houston doesn't. That puts them in two separate predicaments. That's not responding to facts, that's debating an incorrect point that you were trying to enforce.

Oh, and the Nuggets didn't play the Spurs (who advanced to win the championship) and the Lakers (who won the Conference title) just to get knocked out? You act as if we got knocked out by inferior teams on the West. You aren't convincing me there guy...

That little statement you said about us still floating in the first round? That's a mild and tasteless prediction. Matter of fact, that's a hater's statement. I can hate too. Although I love the Rockets, I'm going to fight fire with fire.

THE ROCKETS ARE GOING TO REMAIN FIRST ROUND KNOCKOUTS.

Denver and Houston are first round knockouts. Denver will get better out of defeat, out of the media's insults/comments, out of the devastating 0-7 record against the Lakers, and so fourth... Denver has a lot to progress on not to mention a third of our roster was injured nearly the whole season... The Nuggets were injury and injury-recovering plagued this season, just like... Who? The Rockets!

Your team still has to get Yao and T-Mac back on the train, as opposed to my team who has played together and they know what they have to work on based on the results from the reg. season and the playoffs.

You aren't convincing me :violin:

Ph1lly Diehard
07-08-2008, 11:17 AM
Depends.

If one of them isn't a Bigman, I don't think they are.

That's just my opinion.

SwaggaIke
07-08-2008, 11:23 AM
Oh, and the Nuggets didn't play the Spurs (who advanced to win the championship) and the Lakers (who won the Conference title) just to get knocked out? You act as if we got knocked out by inferior teams on the West. You aren't convincing me there guy...

That little statement you said about us still floating in the first round? That's a mild and tasteless prediction. Matter of fact, that's a hater's statement. I can hate too. Although I love the Rockets, I'm going to fight fire with fire.

THE ROCKETS ARE GOING TO REMAIN FIRST ROUND KNOCKOUTS.

Denver and Houston are first round knockouts. Denver will get better out of defeat, out of the media's insults/comments, out of the devastating 0-7 record against the Lakers, and so fourth... Denver has a lot to progress on not to mention a third of our roster was injured nearly the whole season... The Nuggets were injury and injury-recovering plagued this season, just like... Who? The Rockets!

Your team still has to get Yao and T-Mac back on the train, as opposed to my team who has played together and they know what they have to work on based on the results from the reg. season and the playoffs.

You aren't convincing me :violin:

Funny thing is, i'm not even a Rockets fan bro. I have no reason to make the Nuggets look bad, or make the Rockets look good. I'm a Heat fan thats speaking objectively. So what the Nuggets played against the Spurs and Lakers. At least put up a decent showing. The Lakers ran the Nuggets out of every game in the playoffs. If you do what it takes in the regular season to be a position where you don't have to face the best team in the playoffs every year they wouldn't have to worry about that. Instead they underachieve all year long, grab the 7th or 8th seed and get bounced. The Nuggets don't suffer injuries to significant pieces like the Rockets do. The Rockets lose Yao or Tracy. While the Nuggets lose Nene or Chucky Atkins. There's no excuse for the Nuggets lack of playoff success other than the fact that they are too lazy to buy into the concept of defense. They have in my mind the most talented roster in the league, by a mile. But none of them are hungry enough to buy in on the defensive end in order to even put up a fight against the top dogs in the West during a series. Denver won't get better because they never get better. They put up more of a fight against the Champion Spurs than they did against the Championship losing Lakers. That's called regressing, not getting better. My point has been made and whether you want to accept it or not is completely irrelevant.

Crunchy12489
07-08-2008, 11:28 AM
Funny thing is, i'm not even a Rockets fan bro. I have no reason to make the Nuggets look bad, or make the Rockets look good. I'm a Heat fan thats speaking objectively. So what the Nuggets played against the Spurs and Lakers. At least put up a decent showing. The Lakers ran the Nuggets out of every game in the playoffs. If you do what it takes in the regular season to be a position where you don't have to face the best team in the playoffs every year they wouldn't have to worry about that. Instead they underachieve all year long, grab the 7th or 8th seed and get bounced. The Nuggets don't suffer injuries to significant pieces like the Rockets do. The Rockets lose Yao or Tracy. While the Nuggets lose Nene or Chucky Atkins. There's no excuse for the Nuggets lack of playoff success other than the fact that they are too lazy to buy into the concept of defense. They have in my mind the most talented roster in the league, by a mile. But none of them are hungry enough to buy in on the defensive end in order to even put up a fight against the top dogs in the West during a series. Denver won't get better because they never get better. They put up more of a fight against the Champion Spurs than they did against the Championship losing Lakers. That's called regressing, not getting better. My point has been made and whether you want to accept it or not is completely irrelevant.

Damn, this is fun.

So Nene and Chucky Atkins aren't significant pieces? Not to mention K-Mart was recovering, Steven Hunter (backup 7 footer), Melo (sprained ankle), AI (broken finger at the end of march through april), AC (broken hand), and Kleiza had a injury as well.

Nene and Chucky Atkins not significant pieces? We lack big man presence and a decent point guard. HELLO, THAT'S THESE TWO INJURED PLAYERS! Chucky was supposed to be our starting PG, not AC. LEARN. Nene was supposed to be our sixth man switching out respectively with K-Mart. LEARN.

You need to learn the Nuggets before you talk down upon them.

SwaggaIke
07-08-2008, 01:38 PM
Damn, this is fun.

So Nene and Chucky Atkins aren't significant pieces? Not to mention K-Mart was recovering, Steven Hunter (backup 7 footer), Melo (sprained ankle), AI (broken finger at the end of march through april), AC (broken hand), and Kleiza had a injury as well.

Nene and Chucky Atkins not significant pieces? We lack big man presence and a decent point guard. HELLO, THAT'S THESE TWO INJURED PLAYERS! Chucky was supposed to be our starting PG, not AC. LEARN. Nene was supposed to be our sixth man switching out respectively with K-Mart. LEARN.

You need to learn the Nuggets before you talk down upon them.

Nene is the only player the Nuggets lost that would have helped them when it mattered.. Chucky Atkins isn't anything special. Carter still gave out 8,3 and 6. Steven Hunter doesn't play anyway. Melo played in 77 games this year, Kenyon Martin has only had one above average season since he's been in Denver and that was before A.I got there. What more is he going to do? A.I and Melo dominate the ball. Martin was the most explosive he's been in years this year and he played in 71 games. And A.I played all 82 games. There is not team in the NBA that plays at 100%. None of your players other than Nene and Chucky Atkins missed significant time due to injury/illness. THE ROCKETS LOST THEIR TWO BEST PLAYERS FOR STRETCHES OF GAMES THIS YEAR AND STILL MANAGED TO POST A BETTER RECORD THAN THE UNDERACHIEVING NUGGETS. None of those injuries were that significant other than Nene's and Atkins and he doesn't matter. Carter missed his best production by 4 points. Kleiza and Smith both had career years and the Nuggets still managed to lose in 4. Keep making excuses for your team. If the chain remains true, you'll be making them again this year. I'm done debating w/ you.

Crunchy12489
07-08-2008, 01:58 PM
Nene is the only player the Nuggets lost that would have helped them when it mattered.. Chucky Atkins isn't anything special. Carter still gave out 8,3 and 6. Steven Hunter doesn't play anyway. Melo played in 77 games this year, Kenyon Martin has only had one above average season since he's been in Denver and that was before A.I got there. What more is he going to do? A.I and Melo dominate the ball. Martin was the most explosive he's been in years this year and he played in 71 games. And A.I played all 82 games. There is not team in the NBA that plays at 100%. None of your players other than Nene and Chucky Atkins missed significant time due to injury/illness. THE ROCKETS LOST THEIR TWO BEST PLAYERS FOR STRETCHES OF GAMES THIS YEAR AND STILL MANAGED TO POST A BETTER RECORD THAN THE UNDERACHIEVING NUGGETS. None of those injuries were that significant other than Nene's and Atkins and he doesn't matter. Carter missed his best production by 4 points. Kleiza and Smith both had career years and the Nuggets still managed to lose in 4. Keep making excuses for your team. If the chain remains true, you'll be making them again this year. I'm done debating w/ you.

Okay we'll see when those excuses turn into facts when our record improves and we get passed the first round.

SwaggaIke
07-08-2008, 02:03 PM
Okay we'll see when those excuses turn into facts when our record improves and we get passed the first round.

And i'll be rooting for them to do so. Like I have for the past 5 years. I'm not knocking the Nuggets. Like I said, they are IMO the most talented team in the league. The only excuse for their failure in the playoffs is laziness. W/ all the scorers they have all of them could exert energy on defense and still hang 100 on opponents nightly. I WANT to see the Nuggets succeed. But I just don't put them in the same category as the Rockets.

_Sn1P3r_
07-08-2008, 06:07 PM
As long as the two players work well together, then they should be a contender.