PDA

View Full Version : Sun Times: Cubs talking to A's about Rich Harden



Pages : [1] 2 3

olfbcoach
07-07-2008, 10:05 AM
The Chicago Sun-Times reports that the Cubs have been talking with Oakland GM Billy Beane in hopes of attaining Rich Harden.
The Cubs were looking for starting pitching before division rival Milwaukee snared C.C. Sabathia, and that move made the need slightly more pressing. Still, the A's are only six games out of first and might wait until closer to the deadline to start dealing. The Cubs are also thought to be interested in San Diego's Randy Wolf.
Source: SunTimes.com

gocubs2118
07-07-2008, 10:07 AM
Why is Wolf plan C? He should really be plan Z.

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 10:08 AM
Nothing new.....but new news......


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/cubs-pursuing-h.html

:pity: great, here comes Wolf... :cry:

olfbcoach
07-07-2008, 10:09 AM
From everything else.....you would think that Harden and Burnette were the two we would go after. But no mention of Burnette here....interesting.

olfbcoach
07-07-2008, 10:11 AM
I think it will be interesting how fast we go out and make a deal. Will we rush into something, or sit back and see who comes on the market in the next two weeks. Just in case someone else out there decides they are sellers, and they have something we want. It will be interesting......

chicagofan71
07-07-2008, 10:14 AM
Good to hear that he's been talking about it for atleast a month, which pretty much means that we could get a deal done soon. But, we are gonna get absolutely raped. Vitters, Ceda, Hill, Murton and Thomas IMO

behindmydesk
07-07-2008, 10:18 AM
I just don't see how we have anything that resembles a good enough offer for Harden.

gocubs2118
07-07-2008, 10:21 AM
Playoff rotation of:
Zambrano
Harden
Lilly
Dempster
:drool:

olfbcoach
07-07-2008, 10:23 AM
That is why i said it would be interesting to see what JH does here. Is there the Knee Jerk reaction to make a deal happen now, and not get the best end of the deal, or do you sit and wait to see if a better fit opens up for our side....That is why they get paid millions of bucks a year and I make a small Supplement coaching High School football. All I do is piss off parents if their kid doesn't play enough....lol Not piss off a whole NATION of fans if I make a bad trade. I feel for him, I really do.

gocubs2118
07-07-2008, 10:27 AM
I would think that Beane would want Gallagher, Colvin and Ceda along with one other player as well. Maybe Veal?

steelSKINSNCUBS
07-07-2008, 10:27 AM
Playoff rotation of:
Zambrano
Harden
Lilly
Dempster
:drool:

imagine if Hill gets back to his old self, assuming he isnt in the deal
this also drops lilly and demp down in the rotation for a favorabe matchup against the other teams rotation.

Now we would end up with
Zambrano
Harden
Hill
Lilly
Dempster

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 10:32 AM
imagine if Hill gets back to his old self, assuming he isnt in the deal
this also drops lilly and demp down in the rotation for a favorabe matchup against the other teams rotation.

Now we would end up with
Zambrano
Harden
Hill
Lilly
Dempster

I think it would and should look more like

Zambrano
Harden
Dempster
Lilly
Hill (if Hill is dealt, throw in Marquis)

chicagofan71
07-07-2008, 10:33 AM
I would think that Beane would want Gallagher, Colvin and Ceda along with one other player as well. Maybe Veal?

I'm not sure if he'd want Colvin. He'd like Murton more, do to his OBP and walks. IDK if he wants Gallagher that bad, so maybe the deal I had up before is what's he be looking for

Dfan25
07-07-2008, 10:50 AM
Please get Harden Wolf is listed as plan C. Ugh

BDawk4Prez
07-07-2008, 10:52 AM
I > Wolf

Dfan25
07-07-2008, 10:53 AM
I would think that Beane would want Gallagher, Colvin and Ceda along with one other player as well. Maybe Veal?



The A's would look for a package similar to the one they got from the D,backs in the Haren deal. I am not sure the cubs can put together that type of package. Anyway if we are throwing names out there i think Gallagher Ceda and Vitters for sure .

sauce
07-07-2008, 10:53 AM
Good to hear that he's been talking about it for atleast a month, which pretty much means that we could get a deal done soon. But, we are gonna get absolutely raped. Vitters, Ceda, Hill, Murton and Thomas IMO

please take Hill and Murton. Please.

NORTH10
07-07-2008, 10:54 AM
i dont want to give up a package like the one with haren, i think its too much of a risk with harens injuries. id rather go after burnett

Dfan25
07-07-2008, 10:56 AM
From everything else.....you would think that Harden and Burnette were the two we would go after. But no mention of Burnette here....interesting.



I read that the cubs think they matchup well with the blue jays for Burnett. Toronto is looking for a SS and the cubs have Ronny. If the blue jays take Cedeno Murton and someone else that isn't a top prospect i would jump all over that deal.

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 10:57 AM
please take Hill and Murton. Please.

I don't think Hill is going to have much draw. He had one good game against a team of rookies... but Beane may see something in him. I think we might have enough to get it done, but it would be expensive. If we throw in Pie, I wouldn't be surprised to see a move made for Lewis to fill CF next year.

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 10:57 AM
I read that the cubs think they matchup well with the blue jays for Burnett. Toronto is looking for a SS and the cubs have Ronny. If the blue jays take Cedeno Murton and someone else that isn't a top prospect i would jump all over that deal.

The only problem there is short of Theriot/Cedeno, we are pretty short in the SS department.

chicagofan71
07-07-2008, 10:59 AM
According to Will Carroll we think we "match up well" with the Jays for Burnett

Dfan25
07-07-2008, 11:01 AM
i dont want to give up a package like the one with haren, i think its too much of a risk with harens injuries. id rather go after burnett



If Burnett comes cheap and there is a chance that could be the case since he is having an off year and on top of that has a tough contract i think he is the best option for the cubs. Let's say you can get him cheap and he pitches awesome for the cubs. That most likely means he will walk away after 08 but even if that is the case it doesn't hurt you as much if he comes cheap. The risk is that if he pitches bad you are likely stuck with him for 2 more years i believe at a very high price. Hendry has an interesting decision to make here. I just hope no Wolf.

BUD Bleachers
07-07-2008, 11:03 AM
Oakland is still in the division and WC race as of today. Getting Harden will be a difficult situation.

Dfan25
07-07-2008, 11:04 AM
The only problem there is short of Theriot/Cedeno, we are pretty short in the SS department.



Good point but getting a potencial good starter is much more difficult that finding a backup ss or utility player. I think they could find a good replacement for Ronny if he were to be traded.

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 11:06 AM
Good point but getting a potencial good starter is much more difficult that finding a backup ss or utility player. I think they could find a good replacement for Ronny if he were to be traded.

this could reopen the Murton for Greene thing... since SD will probably be cleaning house (and pending Murton doesn't go in the Burnett deal)

behindmydesk
07-07-2008, 11:06 AM
I still do not think the A's trade him, if anything I think they add a pitcher. But if they did, the cubs would have to give up Gallagher, Vitters Epatt, and one of the following, ceda, donaldson, or possibly colvin. Colvin does have a great defense rep, and Beane has been switching things up a bit, to have a great defense person in CF.

mawp
07-07-2008, 11:08 AM
this could reopen the Murton for Greene thing... since SD will probably be cleaning house (and pending Murton doesn't go in the Burnett deal)

I don't think SD has a need for Murton any longer. Headley is playing LF, Gerut has suprisingly been pretty good in CF, and in RF they have Brian Giles.

mballa22191
07-07-2008, 11:10 AM
Just get either burnett or harden.....If we get anyone worse its not worth it........... But then again burnett or harden could get hurt, thats why CC was the best trade, never hurt and o yeah he won the CY young last year. I just sayying through it all we need a SP and a good one otherwise there is a good chance Brewers will catch us, at this rate

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 11:10 AM
I don't think SD has a need for Murton any longer. Headley is playing LF, Gerut has suprisingly been pretty good in CF, and in RF they have Brian Giles.

I think they are going to look to unload "heavy" contracts over the next couple weeks... I wouldn't be surprised if Giles is gone, Headly might bring some nice prospects back too. SD has basically imploded... the only team worse than them is Seattle.

Dfan25
07-07-2008, 11:13 AM
this could reopen the Murton for Greene thing... since SD will probably be cleaning house (and pending Murton doesn't go in the Burnett deal)



With Theriot playing well i really don't see how Greene fits. Lou is not going to put Theriot in a utility role and Greene isn't a utility. Also i think you have to give more than just Murton for Khalil. I read that the jays were looking at Khalil however a couple of days ago. Maybe a 3 way deal could be made but i am fairly confident the cubs can make a deal for Burnett by themselves.

BDawk4Prez
07-07-2008, 11:14 AM
We do not need Greene.

mawp
07-07-2008, 11:16 AM
I think they are going to look to unload "heavy" contracts over the next couple weeks... I wouldn't be surprised if Giles is gone, Headly might bring some nice prospects back too. SD has basically imploded... the only team worse than them is Seattle.

Headley has been in the bigs for all of like 30 days. There is NO way he gets moved.

Giles maybe, but he's the fan favorite in SD and they're talking about extending him. That .400+ OBP would be missed.

olfbcoach
07-07-2008, 11:17 AM
I have this sneaky suspicion that something has been going on under the table for the last few weeks. And it is probably something that is already known. I am excited that we are at least talking about upgrading. But how much of an upgrade?

My next point....
I don't think it is a stretch to say that we may end up with TWO starting pitchers and another bat before the deadline.....

I don't know who it might be....but I get that feeling this year. That if you are going to go for it.....why not REALLY go for it. Especially if you feel this is the year.


if you look at who might be sellers......
Seattle, Cleveland, Kansas City, Toronto, Washington, San Diego, Colorado, San Francisco, Pittsburgh, Houston, Atlanta, Cincinnati

Every one of thos teams are at least 7 games back in the WILD CARD.....Could they make a push yeah......but from those teams....the ones in italics are the ones that i am not sure will do anything major....other than Atlanta possibly trading Texiera.....Who knows......from which teams do we try to pry someone away?

I think this year will be interesting because we are going to be bidding against the other two teams in our own division....not just the other division leaders.....Do we go all out, or make small changes?

What do you all think?

WCF23
07-07-2008, 11:20 AM
I thought they said getting rid of Gallagher at this point is not something they are really willing to do? Either way you take a big risk hoping Harden stays healthy or a big risk hoping Burnett doesnt suck when he gets here. I think you want to make the move as soon as possible because you may still have an option the day of the deadline but you dont want to be left empty handed either. Marquis is going to do his usual song and dance and more than likely suck from here on out. I think if you have four guys you can count on, Zambrano, Dempster, Lilly, Harden/Burnett/Garcia? then they are going to be in a really good situation because by the time September rolls around then Marshall, Hill, Marquis, or Gallagher will have been steady enough to fill that fifth spot. One thing is for sure though, Sheets and Sabathia are going to be a problem if Sheets doesnt land on the DL, and Carpenter and Mulder could be an issue as well if they can come back and stay healthy. We need a pitcher that can make an impact, and a guy like Wolf, or someone at that level, is not going to be the difference.

gngrbdmn75
07-07-2008, 11:30 AM
Dont you guys think that the A's would be just as happy to get rid of Harden?I dont think he cost much.Burnett has great stuff.Do you think Rothschild can help him.Maybe just getting away from Toronto will help....haha

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 11:32 AM
Dont you guys think that the A's would be just as happy to get rid of Harden?I dont think he cost much.

Beane has already said it will take a large package of specs to get him, much like the Haren deal. They are in the race, and he has pitched well this season. There is no reason to dump him. He will cost out the ***, the question is, do we have something they want.

WCF23
07-07-2008, 11:33 AM
You would think because of injury that he would be a cheap trade but because the demand is high they are going to have some bargaining power. Then again I thought Sabathia would go for more so I guess we will have to wait and see.

WCF23
07-07-2008, 11:36 AM
Can you really compare Haren and Harden? Why should BB be expecting the same type of deal with Harden not being able to stay Healthy ever, and has anyone compared their numbers?

gngrbdmn75
07-07-2008, 11:36 AM
Have you guys even talk about or heard anything about Bonds?

steelSKINSNCUBS
07-07-2008, 11:36 AM
I realy would like to get harden
this year he is 5-1 with a 2.34 era, 92 k's
not to mention his play against NL teams is incredible, he has raped the nl this year

dbrown1225
07-07-2008, 11:37 AM
I think it will be interesting how fast we go out and make a deal. Will we rush into something, or sit back and see who comes on the market in the next two weeks. Just in case someone else out there decides they are sellers, and they have something we want. It will be interesting......

I hope they don't rush into something just to 'answer' the Milwaukee deal.

Get your team closer to winning the World Series.

C-ross12
07-07-2008, 11:41 AM
I would think that Beane would want Gallagher, Colvin and Ceda along with one other player as well. Maybe Veal?

I bet it owuld start with Vitters. Your probably looking at Vitters, Pie and Gallagher.

C-ross12
07-07-2008, 11:42 AM
Beane has already said it will take a large package of specs to get him, much like the Haren deal. They are in the race, and he has pitched well this season. There is no reason to dump him. He will cost out the ***, the question is, do we have something they want.

Im fairly Confident we COULD put together a package for Harden. But it would be so painful it would make Kirel delete his account.

steelSKINSNCUBS
07-07-2008, 11:43 AM
I bet it owuld start with Vitters. Your probably looking at Vitters, Pie and Gallagher.

So has PIE been promoted to AAA, bc i thawt i saw his stats from there but i never heard he got promoted back

CubsFanBudMan74
07-07-2008, 11:45 AM
The A's will consider any offers that allow them to add and subtract at the same time. But any Harden deal would have to at least approach last winter's Dan Haren extravaganza.



looked it up here was that deal


On December 14, 2007, Dan Haren was traded to the Arizona Diamondbacks along with Connor Robertson for prospects including Carlos González, Brett Anderson, Aaron Cunningham, Greg Smith, Dana Eveland, and Chris Carter.

dahm dont think we could get a deal like that done however i wouldnt mind having the guy and his 7 mm 09

hes a beast when healthy

dbrown1225
07-07-2008, 11:50 AM
I bet it owuld start with Vitters. Your probably looking at Vitters, Pie and Gallagher.

No offense, but this is ALL speculation. No one knows what Beane wants or what his scouts have told him.

That said, I would send Gallagher, Pie, and Vitters in a heartbeat.

Grifter
07-07-2008, 11:50 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Marshall's outing yesterday could have been a showcase for a possible trade? If it was, he picked the right time to have a great game.

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 11:51 AM
if we have to match what arz gave then screw it, give marquis murton and cedeno for burnett or something along those lines...it sounds like we would give up more for harden than cc....not worth an injury waiting to happen IMO

PaceIsTheTrick
07-07-2008, 11:54 AM
I am for a Harden move. He is locked up for a reasonable 09. We are due for a promising pitcher with injury troubles to not be hurt. Z Harden Demp and Lilly is a nice 4 for the stretch, and Marquis is tremendous for a 5th starter.

olfbcoach
07-07-2008, 11:55 AM
Well I think the Brewers are throwing all their Chips on the table for a run this year......There is talk of both CC and Sheets walking at the end of the season. Along with talk of trading Hardy and Fielder at the end of the season. So they are just going balls out right now. Good for them, but I hope we can do the same thing and not have to sell the farm....

Like I said earlier....I think somehow we end up with two SP's and a bat. I don't know why I feel that way, but I do. And that second pitcher may be someone from our own organization....who knows. Maybe Marshall steps it up....maybe Hill regains form.......Maybe Gally gets re-energized after a stint in the pen. Who knows....Or maybe this is the year of multiple block-buster deals.....all around baseball. This is a fun time of the year....I am ready to sit back and watch. It's time to wheel and deal......

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 11:59 AM
Well I think the Brewers are throwing all their Chips on the table for a run this year......There is talk of both CC and Sheets walking at the end of the season. Along with talk of trading Hardy and Fielder at the end of the season. So they are just going balls out right now. Good for them, but I hope we can do the same thing and not have to sell the farm....

Could you imagine if Sheets and Sabathia both hit free agency, we got an owner who gave us the green light to continue spending, and we ended up signing a rotation that looked like this....

Zambrano
Sabathia
Sheets
Harden
Lilly

Grifter
07-07-2008, 12:03 PM
Could you imagine if Sheets and Sabathia both hit free agency, we got an owner who gave us the green light to continue spending, and we ended up signing a rotation that looked like this....

Zambrano
Sabathia
Sheets
Harden
Lilly
Cuban wouldn't even shell out that kind of money. Sheets and Sabathia are going to get close to $20 million per year each.

steelSKINSNCUBS
07-07-2008, 12:03 PM
Could you imagine if Sheets and Sabathia both hit free agency, we got an owner who gave us the green light to continue spending, and we ended up signing a rotation that looked like this....

Zambrano
Sabathia
Sheets
Harden
Lilly

hahaha
but we can keep dreaming right? Lets hope Burnett opts out and we sign him too

I would poop all over if we had z harden n sabathia, but if we add burnett n sheets i would go crazy
haha

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 12:07 PM
Cuban wouldn't even shell out that kind of money. Sheets and Sabathia are going to get close to $20 million per year each.

yeah... I know... but you can dream :cool:

olfbcoach
07-07-2008, 12:11 PM
I think that AJ WILL opt out. I think he feels like things up there are going to get no better. He has stated that he would enjoy pitching in Chicago, and his only statement after that was......But until something happens, I will be doing my job here in Toronto......It doesn't seem like he is too enthused to still be pitching there.

WCF23
07-07-2008, 12:12 PM
haha wow this got crazy real quick. I was wondering about Fielder walking though because I read somewhere where he ended talks about his contract and that was leading people to believe he was walking or something like that. I mean they cant really have all four of those guys walk can they?

gngrbdmn75
07-07-2008, 12:13 PM
Is there any chance that Bonds ends up in the outfield for us in the second half???

chicagofan71
07-07-2008, 12:13 PM
Is there any chance that Bonds ends up in the outfield for us in the second half???

:sigh:

behindmydesk
07-07-2008, 12:13 PM
Fielder still has 4 years after this year to play for the brewers. Now whether they can afford his arbitration numbers remains to be seen.

behindmydesk
07-07-2008, 12:14 PM
Is there any chance that Bonds ends up in the outfield for us in the second half???

It would take this offense from pretty good, to downright awesome. If we could figure out where to play him.

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 12:14 PM
Is there any chance that Bonds ends up in the outfield for us in the second half???

No.

olfbcoach
07-07-2008, 12:15 PM
One thing you will see now is just how much other teams are going to GO FOR IT.....Especially since the Brewers got the ball rolling. I think you will see a couple more trades happen before the ASB....and then then Two weeks following that could be fun. If you are a GM within firing range in the Division or the WC, how can you look your team and fan base in the eyes if you didn't do "something?"

gngrbdmn75
07-07-2008, 12:16 PM
They could put Soriano in RF...Bonds in LF....He cant be demending that much.He hasnt had any offers according to his agent.

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 12:17 PM
Harden is even better than Sabathia...if he can keep himself off the DL.

In his 13 starts this year, he's given up 2 earned runs or less 11 times. The other 2 starts he gave up 3 and 5.

It'd be very difficult to get him, but I'd pretty much give up anything we have except Vitters...if at all possible.

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 12:17 PM
One thing you will see now is just how much other teams are going to GO FOR IT.....Especially since the Brewers got the ball rolling. I think you will see a couple more trades happen before the ASB....and then then Two weeks following that could be fun. If you are a GM within firing range in the Division or the WC, how can you look your team and fan base in the eyes if you didn't do "something?"

That is very dangerous thinking... very dangerous. You shouldn't make a move just to make a move. You could actually end up shooting yourself in the foot... or making the team worse. If you have a need, and can fill it, do it. If you feel your team is strong enough as is, and a deal that adds a little depth comes along, do it. If you feel you have what you need, and there aren't any deals that don't make sense... sit on your hands.

WCF23
07-07-2008, 12:18 PM
Im confused, why do we want Bonds to disrupt the chemisty in the clubhouse?

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 12:18 PM
Is there any chance that Bonds ends up in the outfield for us in the second half???
Not for us, but he is the best bat out there, and won't cost anyone prospects. He's a perfect fit for the Yankees.

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 12:18 PM
They could put Soriano in RF...Bonds in LF....He cant be demending that much.He hasnt had any offers according to his agent.

Fukudome is in RF, and I don't think he is going anywhere right now. I don't think Bonds is a good fit. He has amazing offense, but personally, I can not cheer for any team he is on. (it is a personal thing)

gngrbdmn75
07-07-2008, 12:24 PM
It was just a thought.I dont think they will go after him,but it would definetly put us in the drivers seat.The guys is a jerk,but an unbelievable stick.We could have an OF with Bonds,Fukudome,and Soriano! WOW

soandso
07-07-2008, 12:24 PM
harden should be our #1 priority, and we should definitely get him. hes young, and talented and you have to have a solid staff....hes a no brainer

poodski
07-07-2008, 12:26 PM
Not for us, but he is the best bat out there, and won't cost anyone prospects. He's a perfect fit for the Yankees.

I dont see the Yanks going after him but you are right he would be a good fit.

I would say the perfect fit would be Tampa Bay. If they got Bonds I think they would legitamately be the WS favorites.

olfbcoach
07-07-2008, 12:27 PM
Cowboydoc....I agree with you....Just playing Devils advocate here. If you are going to stand pat, you have to come out very confidently and say....."We are going to win with who we have.....We have the best "team" out there and that is what matters." All a GM would have to do is step up and say If we go down, we are going down with the top team that could be put on the field. They were better this week......(as in MLB play-offs)

I have to do that week in and week out with my High school football team.... Just because the team we are going up against hasn't lost a game in 2 years doesn't mean we won't beat them. We are going to have to step it up....because the players we have are all that we have, and you have to do a good job selling your players. Even if it is just to the others on the team. I can't go out and make a trade.....That is what we like to call illiegal. lol


I know that it is just HS football, but selling your team to your team is the most important factor. We preach week in and out that we have to take care of each other first, and everything and everyone else will be taken care of 2nd. I think it is the same thing at any level....you don't have to like a teammate but you need to respect them. You are only as strong as the last player on your bench....

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 12:28 PM
i also think bonds would be instant offense maybe 10 hrs 40 rbis second half...hey i'd take it move fuku to center bonds in right...but i dont think it will happen...you guys are talking if harden is healthy blah blah blah...when burnett is on he is UNTOUCHABLE...no-hitter caliber

KH12
07-07-2008, 12:29 PM
Harden would be AMAZING, I would certainly give up some youngsters for him but I'd like to keep Gallagher.

I wouldn't be upset with Burnett either.

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 12:30 PM
harden should be our #1 priority, and we should definitely get him. hes young, and talented and you have to have a solid staff....hes a no brainer
In theory, but again, there are 3 things to take into account:

1. A's are only 6 back

2. It's going to cost us the majority of our top prospects (see the Haren deal)

3. He's on the DL a few times a year at least

In 2004 he made 31 starts. Good.

2005: 22
2006: 9
2007: 7
2008: 13 and counting. Right now Lilly has made 19 (just a comparison so you can see where a healthy pitcher would be right now)

behindmydesk
07-07-2008, 12:36 PM
I dont see the Yanks going after him but you are right he would be a good fit.

I would say the perfect fit would be Tampa Bay. If they got Bonds I think they would legitamately be the WS favorites.

I'd def agree that his best choice is Tampa.

cubswoo
07-07-2008, 12:36 PM
You just tell Bonds to keep his mouth shut. Start him in AAA for a couple of games to get his timing down.
He'll start one game a week. During the games he is not starting he will pinch hit and if he gets on base will be immediately pinch run for. Pay him a pro-rated league minimum and he gets no special treatment. And he will be cut immediately if he does not produce.
If he really wants to get back in the league he should be able to agree to that.

olfbcoach
07-07-2008, 12:37 PM
His agent had already stated that he was willing to play for the league minimum.....

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 12:39 PM
You just tell Bonds to keep his mouth shut. Start him in AAA for a couple of games to get his timing down.
He'll start one game a week. During the games he is not starting he will pinch hit and if he gets on base will be immediately pinch run for. Pay him a pro-rated league minimum and he gets no special treatment. And he will be cut immediately if he does not produce.
If he really wants to get back in the league he should be able to agree to that.

you are irrational...do you honestly the arguable best player in history and home run king will sign for that...**** no, he would demand like at least 10M:cool:

cubswoo
07-07-2008, 12:40 PM
you are irrational...do you honestly the arguable best player in history and home run king will sign for that...**** no, he would demand like at least 10M:cool:

He has said publicly that he will sign for the league minimum

, Bonds has been offered to all 30 major league teams for a prorated share of the $390000 league minimum

Grifter
07-07-2008, 12:41 PM
You just tell Bonds to keep his mouth shut. Start him in AAA for a couple of games to get his timing down.
He'll start one game a week. During the games he is not starting he will pinch hit and if he gets on base will be immediately pinch run for. Pay him a pro-rated league minimum and he gets no special treatment. And he will be cut immediately if he does not produce.
If he really wants to get back in the league he should be able to agree to that.
You obviously don't know Barry Bonds.

cubswoo
07-07-2008, 12:43 PM
You obviously don't know Barry Bonds.

Borris said Bonds even would play for free — offering to donate whatever salary he receives to purchase tickets for children.

gngrbdmn75
07-07-2008, 12:44 PM
Would Hendry ask Pinella and the guys what they thought before signing a guy like that?

bleyle23
07-07-2008, 12:45 PM
In theory, but again, there are 3 things to take into account:

1. A's are only 6 back

2. It's going to cost us the majority of our top prospects (see the Haren deal)

3. He's on the DL a few times a year at least

In 2004 he made 31 starts. Good.

2005: 22
2006: 9
2007: 7
2008: 13 and counting. Right now Lilly has made 19 (just a comparison so you can see where a healthy pitcher would be right now)

If it was a no-brainer, then Harden would be off the market already as he's a better pitcher than even Sabathia (when healthy). Harden comes with a giant caveat attached to his name.

Cubs fans need to keep in mind that, while it's always an imperative to improve the team, the Cubs are on pace for 95+ wins....as constituted right now.

There is no extreme urgency and they Cubs should think more about what they need to win playoff series' as opposed to making the playoffs.

IMO that should be the mindset right now.

Lastly, keep in mind that Beane views things different than most GM's. They may only six games out, but he takes a holistic view and determines what there chances of making the playoffs really are...so while they may only be a few games out of the wild card right now...he'll determine where he thinks his club could possibly be after 162 and will make decisions based on that.

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 12:45 PM
He has said publicly that he will sign for the league minimum

, Bonds has been offered to all 30 major league teams for a prorated share of the $390000 league minimum

cubswoo second point he wouldn't agree to not starting, pinch hitting once a game, then getting subbed for. He would probably want to play(start) atleast75% of games

cubswoo
07-07-2008, 12:49 PM
cubswoo second point he wouldn't agree to not starting, pinch hitting once a game, then getting subbed for. He would probably want to play(start) atleast75% of games

Sure if he was a DH but the Cubs are a NL team.
He physically can't play the outfield effectively anymore.

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 12:50 PM
If it was a no-brainer, then Harden would be off the market already as he's a better pitcher than even Sabathia (when healthy). Harden comes with a giant caveat attached to his name.

Cubs fans need to keep in mind that, while it's always an imperative to improve the team, the Cubs are on pace for 95+ wins....as constituted right now.

There is no extreme urgency and they Cubs should think more about what they need to win playoff series' as opposed to making the playoffs.

IMO that should be the mindset right now.

Lastly, keep in mind that Beane views things different than most GM's. They may only six games out, but he takes a holistic view and determines what there chances of making the playoffs really are...so while they may only be a few games out of the wild card right now...he'll determine where he thinks his club could possibly be after 162 and will make decisions based on that.

Can we win a playoff series with our current rotation? Not sure. We needed a "1a" starter last year and didn't have one. Dempster can't be counted on in that capacity.

One luxury we would have is if we got Harden, we could always give him extra days off by throwing Marshall or Gallagher out there (if they are still here).

Either way, I do think we may need another top starter. We've had some great stretches this first half but only have a small divisional lead with 2 teams right on our heals. We haven't been all that good since the beginning of June, and I realize that is because of injuries, but we could still use another piece.

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 12:51 PM
Sure if he was a DH but the Cubs are a NL team.
He physically can't play the outfield effectively anymore.

if he gives us the production he contributed last year who cares how sucky his defense is...i mean what is the point of this argument we arent going to get him case closed

dbrown1225
07-07-2008, 12:52 PM
you are irrational...do you honestly the arguable best player in history and home run king will sign for that...**** no, he would demand like at least 10M:cool:

are YOU calling him the best player in history and the home run king? or are you saying that's his reputation?

bleyle23
07-07-2008, 12:53 PM
Can we win a playoff series with our current rotation? Not sure. We needed a "1a" starter last year and didn't have one. Dempster can't be counted on in that capacity.

One luxury we would have is if we got Harden, we could always give him extra days off by throwing Marshall or Gallagher out there (if they are still here).

Either way, I do think we may need another top starter. We've had some great stretches this first half but only have a small divisional lead with 2 teams right on our heals. We haven't been all that good since the beginning of June, and I realize that is because of injuries, but we could still use another piece.

I agree with that WB....my point is that there should be an extreme sense of urgency or extra pressure because of the Sabathia trade.

We shouldn't make a move just to make a move...it should be one of the 2 or three best available (Harden, Bedard...maybe Burnett) or forget it and improve somewhere else.

cubswoo
07-07-2008, 12:54 PM
if he gives us the production he contributed last year who cares how sucky his defense is...i mean what is the point of this argument we arent going to get him case closed

We've seen how Patterson and Soriano can cost us games in Left and he is 10 times slower and worse than they are so he would need to be the Bonds of old to make up for that lack of D. The Bonds of last year wont cut it if he plays 3 out of 4 games.

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 12:54 PM
are YOU calling him the best player in history and the home run king? or are you saying that's his reputation?

pretty much...im not the only one that thinks he is one(if not the) best player EVER. Besides he IS the home run king...what are you talking about and that is his rep

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 12:57 PM
We've seen how Patterson and Soriano can cost us games in Left and he is 10 times slower and worse than they are so he would need to be the Bonds of old to make up for that lack of D. The Bonds of last year wont cut it if he plays 3 out of 4 games.

he would be a GIGANTIC improvement over patterson...he doesnt have much mobility but he still knows how to play outfield the gold gloves he won early in his career were not just a fluke...he can still catch a fly ball and take good angles, and has won a GG in the MLB so dont compare patterson to him...one again stop this we aren't getting him... I say we look into bedard and burnett harden is TOO risky

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 12:58 PM
Can we please let this Bonds talk go and stick to Harden. Thanks.

IvyWentCrazy
07-07-2008, 12:58 PM
Are you kidding me with this Bonds ****... please tell me that is a joke...

FELLAS the Cubs have the best offense in the NL and top 3 in baseball... Why would you want someone who hasn't swung all year, an absolute ******* and someone who would totally kill any defensive continuity the Cubs have, on this team.

W E A R E N O T P L A Y I N G F A N T A S Y B A S E B A L L; this is a team that needs to win by scoring more runs than the opponent... 1 way you do that is by not allowing other team to score... you do that with a combination of pitching and defense... How bad defensively would an outfield compiled of Fonz, Bonds, and Fuku be.

The Cubs are still the best team in the NL... Our Offense is damn good, our defense is good, our Bullpen is good, can be great, and our rotation is above average... IF the cubs can improve the rotation, sure, i'm all for it... but panicking; and resorting to calls for Bonds. I swear some of you people are ********.

Jilly Bohnson
07-07-2008, 01:01 PM
Harden's simply not worth a significant package until he can prove he's not made of glass.

Jilly Bohnson
07-07-2008, 01:03 PM
Double Post, Whoops!

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 01:03 PM
Harden's simply not worth a significant package until he can prove he's not made of glass.
That's going to be Hendry's ONLY bargaining tool.

One encouraging thing is Beane has shown no problem getting rid of his top starters.

Haren
Mulder
Zito
Hudson

gocubs2118
07-07-2008, 01:05 PM
Harden's simply not worth a significant package until he can prove he's not made of glass.
The same thing can be said for Burnett as well. That leaves us with the possible pitchers of Wolf and Maddux. If it meant not getting one of those two, I would throw some of our bigger prospects to them.

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 01:05 PM
Anyone else think this deal would start with Murton? He's an Oakland player by definition.

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 01:06 PM
That's going to be Hendry's ONLY bargaining tool.

One encouraging thing is Beane has shown no problem getting rid of his top starters.

Haren
Mulder
Zito
Hudson

Zito was a bust, Mulder spent most of this year on the DL, Hudson has been to the DL this year... is he selling busted murch?

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 01:06 PM
and mulder and zito flopped so yeeahh

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 01:06 PM
Zito was a bust, Mulder spent most of this year on the DL, Hudson has been to the DL this year... is he selling busted murch?
Yeah, he knows exactly when to get rid of guys it seems.

Hudson and Haren are fine, though.

gocubs2118
07-07-2008, 01:07 PM
Anyone else think this deal would start with Murton? He's an Oakland player by definition.
I'd be all for it if the deal started with Murton.

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 01:07 PM
The same thing can be said for Burnett as well. That leaves us with the possible pitchers of Wolf and Maddux. If it meant not getting one of those two, I would throw some of our bigger prospects to them.

honestly maddux would be more useful as a bench coach, motivational speaker, and the assistant pitching coach no joke

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 01:07 PM
The same thing can be said for Burnett as well. That leaves us with the possible pitchers of Wolf and Maddux. If it meant not getting one of those two, I would throw some of our bigger prospects to them.
Except Burnett's ERA is 2.5 points higher than Harden's...

chicagofan71
07-07-2008, 01:07 PM
Anyone else think this deal would start with Murton? He's an Oakland player by definition.

Yep. That's what I've been saying. Vitters, Murton, Ceda and Gallaghe rmakes sense for them, If he doesn't want Ceda, TOny Thomas is another A's type player

BUD Bleachers
07-07-2008, 01:08 PM
Harden's simply not worth a significant package until he can prove he's not made of glass.

What, 6 trips to the DL in less than 4 seasons?

Sounds like he'd fit in fine here.

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 01:08 PM
I'd be all for it if the deal started with Murton.
Obviously our top guys would be in on it as well, but I'm pretty sure any deal with the A's would have Murton in it.

gngrbdmn75
07-07-2008, 01:08 PM
I think he could be had for Cedeno and Gallehgar.I dont think Hendry would give up to much for another injured pitcher.He has gone through that already.

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 01:08 PM
Yep. That's what I've been saying. Vitters, Murton, Ceda and Gallaghe rmakes sense for them, If he doesn't want Ceda, TOny Thomas is another A's type player
That would be a horrible trade. That's asking Hendry to bend over.

BUD Bleachers
07-07-2008, 01:09 PM
honestly maddux would be more useful as a bench coach, motivational speaker, and the assistant pitching coach no joke

Don't forget batting practice pitcher.

gocubs2118
07-07-2008, 01:09 PM
Except Burnett's ERA is 2.5 points higher than Harden's...
Exactly, thats why if you won't throw any high level prospects at Harden then you wouldn't throw any at Toronto for Burnett. Not only is Burnett injury prone but he had a less than stellar year on the mound.

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 01:10 PM
i would rather not give up vitters SO early...if we are eventually gonna give him up do it next year or the year after when he is in AAA his stock is only going to rise...giving him up this early is considered high-way thievery..i'd love to see murton cedeno veal and ceda for harden

Jilly Bohnson
07-07-2008, 01:11 PM
That's going to be Hendry's ONLY bargaining tool.

One encouraging thing is Beane has shown no problem getting rid of his top starters.

Haren
Mulder
Zito
Hudson

It better work too otherwise I'd just hang up the phone. If Beane honestly wants something that rivals the Haren deal, he can go screw himself. He's never pitched a 200 inning season in his life, and from 2005-2007 he pitched 200 innings TOTAL. For a guy THAT brittle there's no chance in hell I'm giving up Gallagher or Vitters, Beane would have to settle for some combination of our other prospects and guys like Epatt/Cedeno/Marshall/Murton that aren't prospects anymore but still don't have guaranteed spots on the major league club.

gocubs2118
07-07-2008, 01:11 PM
honestly maddux would be more useful as a bench coach, motivational speaker, and the assistant pitching coach no joke
Ya thats why I said that I would throw our better prospects at Oakland for Harden if it meant we weren't getting Maddux or Wolf.

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 01:11 PM
Don't forget batting practice pitcher.

forgot about that that would be a prime position

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 01:12 PM
It better work too otherwise I'd just hang up the phone. If Beane honestly wants something that rivals the Haren deal, he can go screw himself. He's never pitched a 200 inning season in his life, and from 2005-2007 he pitched 200 innings TOTAL. For a guy THAT brittle there's no chance in hell I'm giving up Gallagher or Vitters, Beane would have to settle for some combination of our other prospects and guys like Epatt/Cedeno/Marshall/Murton that aren't prospects anymore but still don't have guaranteed spots on the major league club.

I'd toss Ceda in somewhere.

Murton
Ceda
Epatt
Marshall

i'd do that at the most. Vitters and Gallagher are tough sells.

If it had to involve Gallagher, I'd go him and Murton...not much more.

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 01:12 PM
Yeah, he knows exactly when to get rid of guys it seems.

Hudson and Haren are fine, though.

This might be one other thing that could play into a bargaining chip. It is a long shot, but GM's could use BB's history of giving away busted pitchers to lessen the price just a bit. Haren has been solid, so far, but the rest of that class has had problems... We'll see. I am still all for going for him.

Jilly Bohnson
07-07-2008, 01:14 PM
Yep. That's what I've been saying. Vitters, Murton, Ceda and Gallaghe rmakes sense for them, If he doesn't want Ceda, TOny Thomas is another A's type player

That'd be ridiculous. If we gave that up I'd scream bloody murder.


What, 6 trips to the DL in less than 4 seasons?

Sounds like he'd fit in fine here.

I think it's really ironic that we're looking at him so shortly after all the fans turned on Prior, even though Harden is pretty much just Canadian Prior.


Except Burnett's ERA is 2.5 points higher than Harden's...

A deal for Burnett would purely be a "He was really good in the past, and our scouts think he's really close to being that guy again" sort of thing. Because like you pointed out, he's not having all that good of a season.

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 01:14 PM
once again giving vitters up at what 19(correct me if im wrong) would be downright foolish

Jilly Bohnson
07-07-2008, 01:20 PM
I'd toss Ceda in somewhere.

Murton
Ceda
Epatt
Marshall

i'd do that at the most. Vitters and Gallagher are tough sells.

If it had to involve Gallagher, I'd go him and Murton...not much more.

Yeah, Ceda I'd be willing to trade, and I'd be willing to trade Pie, despite the fact he's one of my personal favorites. Something along the lines of your deal, one good prospect and 3 useful guys that simply don't have a place on this team, is about the most I'd want to give up.

I am not at all willing to give up Vitters, as he's our only elite prospect. I might be willing to give up Gallagher, but I'd like to avoid it if at all possible.

Jilly Bohnson
07-07-2008, 01:21 PM
once again giving vitters up at what 19(correct me if im wrong) would be downright foolish

He's not even 19 yet, he doesn't' turn 19 until late August.

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 01:26 PM
^^^wow thats even more reason to give him time

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 01:27 PM
wait till he's 22ish and hopefully he will have developed into the next david wright and we can trade rammy for some specs

bleyle23
07-07-2008, 01:27 PM
Anyone else think this deal would start with Murton? He's an Oakland player by definition.

I think could end with Murton, in that he could be an add-on to the deal...but I think it starts in our lower minors...with Donaldon, Ceda, Tony Thomas....and I think we could add arms like Marshall or Gallagher as well.

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 01:28 PM
i'd be fine with:
ceda, murton, marshall, cedeno

Theriot2
07-07-2008, 01:29 PM
We are gonna get raped in this deal.

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 01:29 PM
An A's fan posted this in the A's forum:


IS Harden injured?

I've watched the last 2 games (Angels and White Sox) and he hasent popped 94mph. its been at 88-92, and maybe 93 one or two times. His fastball use to be 94-97mph consistent...... Anyone else notice the drop in his velocity??



Those last two starts he's only gone 5 innings.

IvyWentCrazy
07-07-2008, 01:30 PM
A deal for Burnett would purely be a "He was really good in the past, and our scouts think he's really close to being that guy again" sort of thing. Because like you pointed out, he's not having all that good of a season.

What if the Cubs scouts don't think he can be that again... obviously they don't or there would be a lot more interest.

bleyle23
07-07-2008, 01:32 PM
I think it's really ironic that we're looking at him so shortly after all the fans turned on Prior, even though Harden is pretty much just Canadian Prior.

One obvious difference is that Harden has made 13 starts this season and has been excellent. Prior hasn't done either of those things in a few years.

Harden is an obvious gamble. Everyone knows that. But if it pays off...well, you're in the NL driver's seat...Zambrano and Healthy Harden would make us even with the Brewers (Sheets and Sabathia)...the Diamondback (Webb and Haren)...and better than anyone else that's left.

CubsFan05
07-07-2008, 01:32 PM
Felix Pie and Veal may do it. I would really like to get him. If he is healthy and you pair this 26 year old with Big Z, Dempster, Lilly and if Hill can continue to get better, our pitching might be dangerous.

WCF23
07-07-2008, 01:33 PM
great the damaged goods are actually damaged

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 01:34 PM
One obvious difference is that Harden has made 13 starts this season and has been excellent. Prior hasn't done either of those things in a few years.

Harden is an obvious gamble. Everyone knows that. But if it pays off...well, you're in the NL driver's seat...Zambrano and Healthy Harden would make us even with the Brewers (Sheets and Sabathia)...the Diamondback (Webb and Haren)...and better than anyone else that's left.

z, harden, and dempster..that would be a combined like potentially 55 wins, 27 second half wins(z=10 demp=8, harden=9) ish so that combo is the best 1-3 in the mlb possibly...once again potentially... z and hard would start 4/7 games in a 7 game series that would be nice...we would just demp to tack on a dub here and there

Jilly Bohnson
07-07-2008, 01:35 PM
Jason Stark's idea that Harden could command a haul like Haren is ridiculous. Let's break it down a little.

- The team getting Haren got him for 3 years, the team getting Harden gets him for a year and a half.

- Dan Haren is/was a model of health and durabilty, Harden's best comparables are Prior and Wood.

- Haren has better command than Harden. Haren's career K/BB is 3.34 compared to Harden's 2.97.

- Haren gets more groundballs than Harden.

- Harden gets a lot more K's than Haren, and gives up many less homeruns.

Honestly, if someone told me that Dan Haren would fix his homerun problem this year like he has, I'd consider him a better pitcher than Harden straight up, even ignoring health and contract situation. Throw in those two things, which are VERY IMPORTANT, and saying that Harden should deserve a Haren like haul is downright stupid.

Theriot2
07-07-2008, 01:35 PM
What is Harden's contract?

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 01:37 PM
What is Harden's contract?


Rich Harden rhp
4 years/$9M (2005-08), plus $7M 2009 club option

* $1M signing bonus
* 05:$0.5M, 06:$1M, 07:$2M, 08:$4.5M, 09:$7M club option (no buyout)
* escalators based on IP
* signed extension 4/05, replacing 1 year/$0.3365M for 2005 signed 3/05
* ML service: 4.074

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/oakland-athletics.html

Basically if we got him, we could keep him for 2009 at only 7million. If he's healthy, that's a steal.

Jilly Bohnson
07-07-2008, 01:37 PM
One obvious difference is that Harden has made 13 starts this season and has been excellent. Prior hasn't done either of those things in a few years.

Harden is an obvious gamble. Everyone knows that. But if it pays off...well, you're in the NL driver's seat...Zambrano and Healthy Harden would make us even with the Brewers (Sheets and Sabathia)...the Diamondback (Webb and Haren)...and better than anyone else that's left.

Yeah, obviously. But if Prior is pitching lights out next year for 2 months, are you really going to line up to throw the farm at him, knowing that he probably won't keep it up? He's a big risk, so I'm not going to throw my blue chipppers away for him. If they are willing to take a deal that's more quantity than quality, I'll do it, but there's no way I'm willing to give up Vitters, and I'd be very hard pressed to give up Gallagher.

IvyWentCrazy
07-07-2008, 01:39 PM
THe Cubs are in the drivers seat right now...

Theriot2
07-07-2008, 01:41 PM
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/oakland-athletics.html

Basically if we got him, we could keep him for 2009 at only 7million. If he's healthy, that's a steal.

Thank you very much. :)

So yeah, if we can get him, that would be a steal

CubbieSteve
07-07-2008, 01:42 PM
What if the Cubs scouts don't think he can be that again... obviously they don't or there would be a lot more interest.

AJ's been very inconsistent. He's shown signs of brilliance, 7 IP, 0 ER, 11K's vs Braves two starts ago, 8 IP, 1 ER, 7K's the start before that vs. the Reds. But the signs of downright awfulness, last time out vs Angels 7 IP, 6 ER and before the good start vs. the Reds, he gave up 8 runs to the Brewers.

I would take him just because maybe a change of scenery, a change of division, and a change back to the National League could catapult his career. He's got very, very good stuff. It may be a mental problem right now. He's not exactly been loved by Toronto. The newspapers were ripping him to shreds when he said he'd welcome a trade to the Cubs. But I'd welcome him if Beane is going to rape us.

WCF23
07-07-2008, 01:42 PM
What have they been talking about for over a month if BB isnt at least a little bit interested in some of the pieces he could possibly add. We shouldnt sacrifice Gallagher for Harden IMO

CubsFanBudMan74
07-07-2008, 01:42 PM
THe A's are in the drivers seat right now...

fixed

bleyle23
07-07-2008, 01:43 PM
Yeah, obviously. But if Prior is pitching lights out next year for 2 months, are you really going to line up to throw the farm at him, knowing that he probably won't keep it up? He's a big risk, so I'm not going to throw my blue chipppers away for him. If they are willing to take a deal that's more quantity than quality, I'll do it, but there's no way I'm willing to give up Vitters, and I'd be very hard pressed to give up Gallagher.

I agree JB...however, I feel like Vitters is really our only elite prospect...I just don't put Gallagher anywhere near that level. He's tough to trade gievn his age and what he's done thus far at that age, but I'll include him in a trade only for someone like Harden....maybe Bedard. No one else.

One other note...I read (or heard) somewhere that Harden developed a straight change and has been using it a lot this year...not only has it been incredibly effective, it's also reduced the need for him to throw a breaking ball, which was giving his arm so much trouble in the past. Not sure if anyone else can confirm that or not.

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 01:43 PM
THe Cubs are in the drivers seat right now...
?

behindmydesk
07-07-2008, 01:44 PM
As much as I love Murton and used to think he'd end up in Oakland, I just don't see where he plays out there. Cust is in LF, and he sure as hell isn't better then Cust. Carlos Gonzalez plays center, Sweeney is in RF. Buck is in the minors, and they aren't giving up on him. Plus they have 3 more guys ready to take a corner OF spot.

behindmydesk
07-07-2008, 01:47 PM
i'd be fine with:
ceda, murton, marshall, cedeno

So the highlight of a deal for Harden would be murton. You offer a package like that, and you get the phone hung up on you.


Jesus guys this is Harden, and Beane. Harden isn't a FA at the end of the year, they have no reason to trade him unless you blow them away. Offers liek this aren't even close to being acceptable.

IvyWentCrazy
07-07-2008, 01:48 PM
Even with CC... the Cubs are and will remain the best team in the NL... Everyone take that the Brewers will now just take and run away with the central is utterly ridiculous. CC doesn't make the back end of that bullpen better... CC doesn't improve that defense which can be a total joke... Great pitcher, yes... once every 5 days

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 01:48 PM
then screw beane and go after bedard/burnett

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 01:49 PM
So the highlight of a deal for Harden would be murton. You offer a package like that, and you get the phone hung up on you.


Jesus guys this is Harden, and Beane. Harden isn't a FA at the end of the year, they have no reason to trade him unless you blow them away. Offers liek this aren't even close to being acceptable.
Yeah, well neither is this:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5761856&postcount=11

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 01:49 PM
then screw beane and go after bedard/burnett
:sigh:

WCF23
07-07-2008, 01:49 PM
So really we are talking about getting Burnett or Wolf right?

Jilly Bohnson
07-07-2008, 01:50 PM
I agree JB...however, I feel like Vitters is really our only elite prospect...I just don't put Gallagher anywhere near that level. He's tough to trade gievn his age and what he's done thus far at that age, but I'll include him in a trade only for someone like Harden....maybe Bedard. No one else.

One other note...I read (or heard) somewhere that Harden developed a straight change and has been using it a lot this year...not only has it been incredibly effective, it's also reduced the need for him to throw a breaking ball, which was giving his arm so much trouble in the past. Not sure if anyone else can confirm that or not.

I agree that Vitters is our only elite prospect. Gallagher though is so valuable because he's major league ready, and he's going to be cheap for the next 4 or 5 years. With as ugly as our payroll situations going to get in a few years, we could really use as many guys like that as possible. He's not an absolute deal breaker like Vitters would be fore me, but I'd really like to avoid giving him up if at all possible.

poodski
07-07-2008, 01:50 PM
Jason Stark's idea that Harden could command a haul like Haren is ridiculous. Let's break it down a little.

- The team getting Haren got him for 3 years, the team getting Harden gets him for a year and a half.

- Dan Haren is/was a model of health and durabilty, Harden's best comparables are Prior and Wood.

- Haren has better command than Harden. Haren's career K/BB is 3.34 compared to Harden's 2.97.

- Haren gets more groundballs than Harden.

- Harden gets a lot more K's than Haren, and gives up many less homeruns.

Honestly, if someone told me that Dan Haren would fix his homerun problem this year like he has, I'd consider him a better pitcher than Harden straight up, even ignoring health and contract situation. Throw in those two things, which are VERY IMPORTANT, and saying that Harden should deserve a Haren like haul is downright stupid.

We would have Harden for 2.5 years. He will be arby eligible in 2010.

I would give up nearly as much as the Dbacks gave up for Haren.

I dont think its rediculous at all for ask as much as they did for Haren.

Harden is a better pitcher, the only issue is the health.

WCF23
07-07-2008, 01:52 PM
We dont have what the Dbacks gave for Haren

Bigstevo4000
07-07-2008, 01:52 PM
Agreed... I dont know that we have enough for Harden unless Hendry pulls some magic... I hope hes not dumb enough to go after Wolf... I would much rather have AJ Burnett than him. Ild rather have Maddux than Wolf.

WCF23
07-07-2008, 01:54 PM
I really think from a REALISTIC outlook that Burnett is going to be the best available option. I dont think we can get Harden as much as I would love to be wrong about that

Theriot2
07-07-2008, 01:54 PM
I have a feeling this is going to be a repeat of what happened last winter with the Orioles for Brian Roberts.

chicagofan71
07-07-2008, 01:55 PM
Yeah, well neither is this:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5761856&postcount=11

Vitters, Ceda, Gallagher, Murton isn't enough? then I would hang up the phone

Jilly Bohnson
07-07-2008, 01:55 PM
We would have Harden for 2.5 years. He will be arby eligible in 2010.

I would give up nearly as much as the Dbacks gave up for Haren.

I dont think its rediculous at all for ask as much as they did for Haren.

Harden is a better pitcher, the only issue is the health.

Is he arby eligible through 2010? I was under the impression the contract he's got right now is it, meaning he'd be signed through this year with an option for next year.

And I think that now that Haren's fixed his homerun problem, he's a better pitcher straight up. Add in the health factor and it's not even close.

behindmydesk
07-07-2008, 01:56 PM
Yeah, well neither is this:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5761856&postcount=11

That's a better offer then the one that was posted in here. The a's do not have a legit 3rd base prospect in the org. So that def helps them. Beane will def want a pitcher that can go right inot the rotation the day it's done. Gallagher fits there. Now add to it

Str1fe5
07-07-2008, 01:56 PM
I'm concerned about every one of the options. Burnett is having the worst season of his career, and harden is as injury prone as Prior ever was. That being said, Harden would be by far the best pitcher on the market in terms of talent. Wonder what the A's asking price would be?

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 01:56 PM
Vitters, Ceda, Gallagher, Murton isn't enough? then I would hang up the phone

No it is way too much, and frankly quite ridiculous.

ABTY7
07-07-2008, 01:56 PM
Anyone who thinks the Cubs will have to put together some kind of super package for Harden is overvaluing Billy Beane- will it have to be a solid package, well duh- however if you look at the deals made for the last two high profile pitchers traded (Sabathia and Santana; which are both better then Harden mind you) they aren't what most would consider 'crazy' deals-

Gallagher, Ceda, Josh Donaldson and an arm like Marcos Mateo or Alex Maestri would be overpaying, IMO- however I think that's pretty close to what we're looking at...

Food for thought-

Unlikely as it may be, with a pick-up like Harden and the eventual return of Hill, I wouldn't be the least bit surprized if Hendry pulls the 'Hundley-for-Grudzielanek/Karros' swap with Marquis getting dumped for another bad contract in return - maybe a Marquis and Murton for Randy Winn type deal- Winn would obviously be a luxury this year (although Fukudome may need to take a day off aweek or so to keep him fresh, Edmonds and Johnson are always injury concerns and who knows about Soriano for the rest of the year), however he'd be a great guy to have next year with Edmonds and most likely Johnson both moving on.

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 01:57 PM
That's a better offer then the one that was posted in here. The a's do not have a legit 3rd base prospect in the org. So that def helps them. Beane will def want a pitcher that can go right inot the rotation the day it's done. Gallagher fits there. Now add to it

Hendry can not offer Vitters and Gallagher. That's completely unacceptable for a piece of glass like Harden.

jiggin
07-07-2008, 01:58 PM
no way the cubs are able to put together enough to get Harden, and if they were able to somehow...I would be scared to hear all the players going to the A's. Harden does have an option for 09 at 7 million, making him a steal if he can stay off the DL.

Where did the Bonds discussion start and how do we end it? He isn't going to the cubs...pretty much end of the discussion.

Theriot2
07-07-2008, 01:59 PM
Hendry can not offer Vitters and Gallagher. That's completely unacceptable for a piece of glass like Harden.

I think Hendry would be fired on the spot if he offered those two for Harden

chicagofan71
07-07-2008, 02:00 PM
Vitters, Ceda, Gallagher, Murton isn't enough? then I would hang up the phone

NVM. I thought you were saying this was underpaying

bleyle23
07-07-2008, 02:01 PM
Vitters, Ceda, Gallagher, Murton isn't enough? then I would hang up the phone

It's close...take out Vitters...add in Donaldson and maybe Tony Thomas

Gallagher, Ceda, Donaldson + 1 more low level SP.

Str1fe5
07-07-2008, 02:02 PM
The big difference ABT between the Sabathia and Santanta deals is that their former teams had no prayer of retaining them after the '08 season, so they were pressured to get what they could. Harden is still cheap and under contract for '09. there really is no pressure for the A's to move him. So it would have to be of an equal value deal, and, given the state of our farm system, which is mediocre at best, I don't think that any prospect or collection of 3-4 prospects is too much. You'd have to figure any deal would start with Gallagher (a #3 starter at best) and Vitters (our best overall prospect at this point and something the A's need) and go from there.

*EDIT* Whoops didn't take the time to go look up richie's contract first.

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 02:02 PM
anything w/o vitters and gallagher gets my approval(pie, marshall, hart etc)

poodski
07-07-2008, 02:02 PM
Is he arby eligible through 2010? I was under the impression the contract he's got right now is it, meaning he'd be signed through this year with an option for next year.

And I think that now that Haren's fixed his homerun problem, he's a better pitcher straight up. Add in the health factor and it's not even close.

His service time after 2009 will not be 6 so he will still be Arbitration eligible through 2010.

Giving us of course the lead in signing him long term. Which is another reason why I think we should go after him.

When healthy I dont think Haren is in the same league as Harden. Adding in health Haren may be a better bet, but when healthy Harden is a top 5 pitcher, Haren is probably in the top 30 though.

Haren has been lights out since June 1. Lets see if he can keep it up.

chicagofan71
07-07-2008, 02:03 PM
anything w/o vitters and gallagher gets my approval(pie, marshall, hart etc)

That's not gonna happen though. Pie, Marshall Hart as a package? Good god

behindmydesk
07-07-2008, 02:03 PM
Hendry can not offer Vitters and Gallagher. That's completely unacceptable for a piece of glass like Harden.

You don't think for a second that Beane will be playing on look at what your rivals did, look at what the market has to offer.
Beane has no problem trading people, he also has no problem just saying hey he can walk and i'll take my draft pick. The A's are still in the race, they must have a legit pitcher to go right into the SP. That's why Gallagher is the key here. They also have no 3rd base prospects. They also want a RH bat that is ready. Murton seems logical, but as I said earlier, I just dont' see where he fits.

I still don't think Harden gets dealt. Street on the other hand is probably as good as gone, depending on Devine being healthy, and the progression of Casilla.

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 02:04 PM
You don't think for a second that Beane will be playing on look at what your rivals did, look at what the market has to offer.
Beane has no problem trading people, he also has no problem just saying hey he can walk and i'll take my draft pick. The A's are still in the race, they must have a legit pitcher to go right into the SP. That's why Gallagher is the key here. They also have no 3rd base prospects. They also want a RH bat that is ready. Murton seems logical, but as I said earlier, I just dont' see where he fits.

I still don't think Harden gets dealt. Street on the other hand is probably as good as gone, depending on Devine being healthy, and the progression of Casilla.
Of course he will, but Hendry can't offer his 18 year old best prospect and a guy like Gallagher who is going to be a very good pitcher and is in his early 20's. One I could understand, Gallagher more than Vitters...but you can't deal both.

ABTY7
07-07-2008, 02:05 PM
anything w/o vitters and gallagher gets my approval(pie, marshall, hart etc)

So, you'd be OK with Donaldson, Veal, Marshall, Ceda, Colvin and Pie for Harden? I mean, it doesn't include Vitters or Gally right?

behindmydesk
07-07-2008, 02:07 PM
The big difference ABT between the Sabathia and Santanta deals is that their former teams had no prayer of retaining them after the '08 season, so they were pressured to get what they could. Harden is still cheap and under contract for '09. there really is no pressure for the A's to move him. So it would have to be of an equal value deal, and, given the state of our farm system, which is mediocre at best, I don't think that any prospect or collection of 3-4 prospects is too much. You'd have to figure any deal would start with Gallagher (a #3 starter at best) and Vitters (our best overall prospect at this point and something the A's need) and go from there.

*EDIT* Whoops didn't take the time to go look up richie's contract first.

Not to mention A's 2007 payroll 77 million, A's 2008 payroll 47 million. Wolfe (owner) never once told Beane to cut payroll. Beane just sold off, because he knew it was time. They have atleast 35-40 million to add to their payroll. They coudl just as easy sign Harden, to a Kamir style contract. They key to this is though, that A's managment and Harden come to some kind of understanding. At the start of ST. Harden was pretty PO'd at the FO.


anything w/o vitters and gallagher gets my approval(pie, marshall, hart etc)


Then you dont' get him.

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 02:07 PM
abty7 why the sarcasm point is its flat REDICULOUS to give up gallagher/vitters at their age that was all i was saying

WCF23
07-07-2008, 02:07 PM
Gallagher is only 22 (maybe 23?) and pitchers dont hit there prime until what 27/28. Why would you not want to keep a guy who is already there? By the time he hits 26 he maybe a top of the rotation guy

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 02:08 PM
thanks you WCF23

behindmydesk
07-07-2008, 02:12 PM
Of course he will, but Hendry can't offer his 18 year old best prospect and a guy like Gallagher who is going to be a very good pitcher and is in his early 20's. One I could understand, Gallagher more than Vitters...but you can't deal both.

Oh i'm not arguing, that Hendry should do it. I hope he doesn't. It's a significant overpayment. Vitters might not be in there, but then you go with a Gally, Donaldson, Colvin (this is just my theory, on knowing that Beane has shifted a bit to wanting a CF that plays strong D, but he seems to have that in Carlos Gonazlez, who actually can hit as well) then add on 2 more. Either way i'm still thinking the club that gets him overpays.

Look at it this way. In an offseason and now season that has saw, Bedard, Haren, Santana, Swisher, and now CC traded. Who got the best specs. In 2 of the top 3 deals the A's were there. Bedard went for alot as well.

Theriot2
07-07-2008, 02:12 PM
I am thinking something like: Donaldson, Thomas, Ceda, and maybe Vitters?

poodski
07-07-2008, 02:13 PM
Gallagher is only 22 (maybe 23?) and pitchers dont hit there prime until what 27/28. Why would you not want to keep a guy who is already there? By the time he hits 26 he maybe a top of the rotation guy

Or he may be the number 3 everyone thought he would be.

You cant sit on your hands and do nothing forever. And just say we cant trade him cuz he *might* be good.

No one should be exempt from a trade. No one.

I have no problem trading Vitters and/or Gallagher if I feel it makes the team better.

You cant just say no way could we ever ever trade both of them. Thats rediculous.

What if the Cards said we will give you Pujols for those two do you say no because they are young and might be great one day? No you take the deal and run.

I am not saying I would give both for Harden, but you cant just say these people arent available cuz they are so young. If you do you might as well just not bother trading and make all moves through free agency and pray your draft picks turn out great.

behindmydesk
07-07-2008, 02:13 PM
Gallagher is only 22 (maybe 23?) and pitchers dont hit there prime until what 27/28. Why would you not want to keep a guy who is already there? By the time he hits 26 he maybe a top of the rotation guy

Gally is a 3 at best even when he hits his prime.

WCF23
07-07-2008, 02:14 PM
No problem, Im just with you on it. I think we are looking for a guy to come in and help this team in the postseason and giving away a young guy like Gallagher who we may need to make that run makes no sense. What happens if Harden gets hurt before September/October and we dont have Gallagher. Harden doesnt garuantee anything and we dont need to over pay for him

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 02:14 PM
stop adding vitters...its like trading a potential david wright...would you do a 18-potential wright for a glass pitcher straight up????

ABTY7
07-07-2008, 02:14 PM
The big difference ABT between the Sabathia and Santanta deals is that their former teams had no prayer of retaining them after the '08 season, so they were pressured to get what they could. Harden is still cheap and under contract for '09. there really is no pressure for the A's to move him. So it would have to be of an equal value deal, and, given the state of our farm system, which is mediocre at best, I don't think that any prospect or collection of 3-4 prospects is too much. You'd have to figure any deal would start with Gallagher (a #3 starter at best) and Vitters (our best overall prospect at this point and something the A's need) and go from there.

*EDIT* Whoops didn't take the time to go look up richie's contract first.

Well, Santana and Sabathia both also don't come with the injury history of a Harden, so consider that the great equalizer.

Vitters will not be included, period. Mets didn't have to deal Fernando Martinez, Brewers got away without including Gamel, hell even the Sox got away in the Swisher deal without dealing Fields- point is, the top guy in an organization rarely is dealt for anyone.

I think a point people need to remember also is that it's not as if Billy Beane is holding all of the cards- Burnett, Cook, Bedard, Wolf, Young, Millwood, Snell, Arroyo, etc. all could most likely be had- it's not exactly Harden or bust

dbrown1225
07-07-2008, 02:14 PM
pretty much...im not the only one that thinks he is one(if not the) best player EVER. Besides he IS the home run king...what are you talking about and that is his rep

This isn't the right thread for this. But anybody who isn't baseball ******** knows that Bonds is NOT the best player ever. He's not even the best player of his generation. That's Griffey.

I'll go with Babe Ruth. To the best of my knowledge Bonds was never a pitcher.

WCF23
07-07-2008, 02:15 PM
How do you know he is a 3 at best?

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 02:15 PM
ok, ill give gallagher murton and one maybe 2 more

WCF23
07-07-2008, 02:18 PM
I think people have got this idea in their head that Harden is the be all end all and if we do not get him we are screwed. I dont think that is the case and I think we should not be looking to put Prior back on this team because that is exactly what would happen. Yeah if he stays healthy for the rest of the year then im all in to trade whoever but we dont know that he will stay healthy

behindmydesk
07-07-2008, 02:18 PM
Well, Santana and Sabathia both also don't come with the injury history of a Harden, so consider that the great equalizer.

Vitters will not be included, period. Mets didn't have to deal Fernando Martinez, Brewers got away without including Gamel, hell even the Sox got away in the Swisher deal without dealing Fields- point is, the top guy in an organization rarely is dealt for anyone.

I think a point people need to remember also is that it's not as if Billy Beane is holding all of the cards- Burnett, Cook, Bedard, Wolf, Young, Millwood, Snell, Arroyo, etc. all could most likely be had- it's not exactly Harden or bust

You are right they didn't have to deal fields. Instead they dealt 2 prized pitchers.

ABTY7
07-07-2008, 02:23 PM
ok, ill give gallagher murton and one maybe 2 more

I love this 'I'm willing to do' - "i'll do this' - 'I'll give' bunk everyone seems to do in here now. It doesn't matter what you feel comfortable with- it matters what is realistic, rational and has the two actual GM's interested.

Gally, Murt and 'maybe two others' doesn't really fit what is realistic at this point. I realize Murton is considered a 'Moneyball' type player, but have you looked at the A's roster? No place for Murton at this point. Maybe two years ago Murton to the A's made a great deal of sense, but that time has past. Tony Thomas is a guy Billy Beane would seem to like; Donaldson makes even more sense as he fits a need and generally has a high OBP.

ABTY7
07-07-2008, 02:24 PM
You are right they didn't have to deal fields. Instead they dealt 2 prized pitchers.

They overpaid, we all know that- however the point was they didn't include their top positional player, just as the Mets and Brewers were able to bypass as well...

Dfan25
07-07-2008, 02:25 PM
I saw this on another board. This is from a Jayson stark chat going on right now:



zach (merrillville, IN): Jayson, with sabathia gone, do you see the cubs going after harden or someone more like a randy wolf? Sean Marshall will not be able to keep up.


Jayson Stark: (1:32 PM ET ) I keep hearing the Cubs only want to make a deal if it's for a No. 1 or 2 starter. They have plenty of 3-4-5's. So Harden fits their profile more than Wolf does, although they do have legit interest in Wolf.




I hope Stark is right. If true seems like Hendry has the right idea although the Wolf part is still scary.

behindmydesk
07-07-2008, 02:27 PM
They overpaid, we all know that- however the point was they didn't include their top positional player, just as the Mets and Brewers were able to bypass as well...

Yes they were able to not give their best positional player because they gave up 2 pitchers taht project as an ace. The cubs do not have that, so they can't just not give their best positional player

WCF23
07-07-2008, 02:27 PM
Wolf is a mess, I cant believe there is real interest in him

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 02:28 PM
wolf is a poor man's ted lilly similar stuff

rcal10
07-07-2008, 02:29 PM
If the Cubs do make a more the only pitchers I would like for them to go after would be Harden, Burnett or Hudson. If the Braves fall further back, I would love to get Hudson. He is the least risky of the 3. No matter who the Cubs get I believe Gallagher will have to be in the deal. I am not saying I like that idea, but I think that is someone who would interest every team the Cubs are talking to. Maybe Toronto would settle for Marshall instead, since they have an all right handed starting staff. For Hudson or Harden you have to start with Gallagher and Murton and go from there.

CubbieSteve
07-07-2008, 02:30 PM
Wolf is a mess, I cant believe there is real interest in him

I hope the only interest is as backup plan. I'd go for Harden, then Burnett/whoever, and if nothing works out then I would get Wolf at the last second. But only if it's Murton for him straight up. If it's not then screw him. He's not a big improvement over Marquis, imo.

WCF23
07-07-2008, 02:30 PM
Again if we cant get Harden my vote is for Burnett, he wants out, he wants to be a Cub, and he is probably the best available option at that point

WCF23
07-07-2008, 02:32 PM
im guessing thats what the wolf deal is though right, just for Murton

Theriot2
07-07-2008, 02:32 PM
Please God no. Not Randy Wolf.

rcal10
07-07-2008, 02:33 PM
I hope they do not go after guys like Wolf, Maddux, Arroyo, Snell, Duke or any other number 4 starter out there. If they are going to do that I would rather they stay with what they have.

ABTY7
07-07-2008, 02:34 PM
Yes they were able to not give their best positional player because they gave up 2 pitchers taht project as an ace. The cubs do not have that, so they can't just not give their best positional player

Gio Gonzalez does not project as an ace- but this is all errelavant. Fact is, the Sox also dealt for a positional player that had many years left on his contract unlike the Cubs attempting to deal for an injury plagued starting pitcher with only 1 option year after this- apples and oranges. I was simply showing that teams do not deal their top postional talent, not suggesting that a simular deal could be put together from what the Sox offered- although to be fair, we won't need to offer as much as the Sox did because of the aforementioned difference between Harden and Swisher...

Once again, Gallagher, Ceda, Donaldson and a high ceiling youngster like Dae-Eun Rhee would be market value for a top line SP- it can be debated (not here, not now however) weather or not Harden qualifies as a top line guy...

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 02:35 PM
idk snell is kinda young and is better than wolf

behindmydesk
07-07-2008, 02:36 PM
Gio Gonzalez does not project as an ace- but this is all errelavant. Fact is, the Sox also dealt for a positional player that had many years left on his contract unlike the Cubs attempting to deal for an injury plagued starting pitcher with only 1 option year after this- apples and oranges. I was simply showing that teams do not deal their top postional talent, not suggesting that a simular deal could be put together from what the Sox offered- although to be fair, we won't need to offer as much as the Sox did because of the aforementioned difference between Harden and Swisher...

Once again, Gallagher, Ceda, Donaldson and a high ceiling youngster like Dae-Eun Rhee would be market value for a top line SP- it can be debated (not here, not now however) weather or not Harden qualifies as a top line guy...


Gio has been called an ace by many, some say maybe a 2.

But I think that offer you made is certianly in the ballpark.

ABTY7
07-07-2008, 02:37 PM
If the Cubs do make a more the only pitchers I would like for them to go after would be Harden, Burnett or Hudson. If the Braves fall further back, I would love to get Hudson. He is the least risky of the 3. No matter who the Cubs get I believe Gallagher will have to be in the deal. I am not saying I like that idea, but I think that is someone who would interest every team the Cubs are talking to. Maybe Toronto would settle for Marshall instead, since they have an all right handed starting staff. For Hudson or Harden you have to start with Gallagher and Murton and go from there.

I don't think Hudson is going anywhere. He has two more years on his deal, is a legit top line guy and with Smoltz most likely done the Braves need to have a guy like that to build around. Plus, it more likely they'll deal Teixiera and take the pieces they get for him and build for next year with Hudosn and Chipper as the foundation...

CubbieSteve
07-07-2008, 02:38 PM
I hope they do not go after guys like Wolf, Maddux, Arroyo, Snell, Duke or any other number 4 starter out there. If they are going to do that I would rather they stay with what they have.

I might be in favor of Duke. No, he's not a top of the rotation kind of guy but he's 25, having a down year this season but he could turn into a tough lefty. If he's cheap, I'd welcome him. But I don't know if he's available.

WCF23
07-07-2008, 02:40 PM
Yeah I would say Teixiera is as good as gone isnt he?

ABTY7
07-07-2008, 02:42 PM
I might be in favor of Duke. No, he's not a top of the rotation kind of guy but he's 25, having a down year this season but he could turn into a tough lefty. If he's cheap, I'd welcome him. But I don't know if he's available.

Sans Duke's rookie year, all he has had is down years. I'd think we'd take a hard look at Snell and thats about it- even that's a deal I think Hendry would take pause about making...

To be realistic, it seems to be down to A.J. Burnett (who most likely would cost us the elast amount as far as prospects go) Rich Harden, Randy Wolf and maybe Erik Bedard.

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 02:45 PM
i wouldnt mind ripping off the p-rats for snell for good ol' time's sake

Cubs Fan 4Ever
07-07-2008, 03:03 PM
Dear Mr. Hendry,

Please don't get raped in the *** by Mr. Beane

CubbieSteve
07-07-2008, 03:06 PM
I would imagine Hendry doesn't want to be raped, he will be smart about it. He experienced the pain of Prior, he won't overpay for another potential arm problem.

canusaychicity1
07-07-2008, 03:09 PM
They just mentioned the cubs pursuing Rich Harden on ESPN news at the start of the hour!

jdgrabo
07-07-2008, 03:12 PM
The pitchers that are most likely available are not, imo, necessarily difference makers with the possible exception of Harden. Harden can be very good provided he can stay healthy but that is a big IF. Not to mention Billy Beane will just bend us over on that deal. Sabathia was the only guy who to me was the type of starter who can really make your rotation better right now. It's a good move for a Brewers team who has decided this is their best year chance to win .

Aside from that, are any of the guys mentioned in this thread really any more than back of the rotation guys? Burnett can be a pain to deal with, plus he's having a down year and has a heavy contract. I'm not convinced he gives us that great of a boost. Wolf, Maddux, Snell, et al are not what we could really use which is a top line starter to settle in behind Z and in front of Dempster and Lilly.

If we are going to give up top line prospects it needs to be for a guy who can help us substantially.

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 03:19 PM
Here is the pecking order I would hope to see...

Harden
Bedard
Burnett
Wolfe (last resort)

I also don't think it would be that bad of an idea to sign Garcia to an incentive laden contract, and give him some AAA starts to see what he can do. He might be a sleeper.

Acronym
07-07-2008, 03:22 PM
If we were to get a deal done for Harden, would it ever be possible to insist on an MRI and X-rays in addition to the standard "rigorous physical"?

ABTY7
07-07-2008, 03:31 PM
If we were to get a deal done for Harden, would it ever be possible to insist on an MRI and X-rays in addition to the standard "rigorous physical"?

It's 100% OK for us to ask- although the A's can refuse, all they have to provide are his medical records updated to the day of the trade

jdgrabo
07-07-2008, 03:32 PM
Even if they are clean...it's not a predictor of how healthy he'll be. His history tell us that he's a bit of an injury risk.

cubswoo
07-07-2008, 03:33 PM
What about Duchsherer? I think I'd rather have him than Harden.

WOwolfOL
07-07-2008, 03:41 PM
Only thing holding this up is Gally, IMO, Beane's gotta be demanding him.

DAAAAABEARS
07-07-2008, 04:16 PM
What about Duchsherer? I think I'd rather have him than Harden.

haha, are you serious? he's like their new ace, and isnt he only like a 2nd or third year player?

cubswoo
07-07-2008, 04:17 PM
haha, are you serious? he's like their new ace, and isnt he only like a 2nd or third year player?

He's been around for a while. He was their Marmol a few years back and they finally came to their senses and made him into a starter this year.

DAAAAABEARS
07-07-2008, 04:19 PM
He's been around for a while. He was their Marmol a few years back and they finally came to their senses and made him into a starter this year.

yeah i just noticed that.......i'm not that informed when it comes american league bullpens i must admit..

he's been filthy this year, but harden is only one they MIGHT part with.

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 04:34 PM
Only thing holding this up is Gally, IMO, Beane's gotta be demanding him.

:bang:I think if that were the case, me and my little friend might have to convince Mr. Hendry :censored::guns::smoking: (sarcasm... not serious)

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 04:37 PM
:bang:I think if that were the case, me and my little friend might have to convince Mr. Hendry :censored::guns::smoking: (sarcasm... not serious)

no you should be serious...say hello to my little frrr:guns::guns::worthy:

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 04:40 PM
no you should be serious...say hello to my little frrr:guns::guns::worthy:

perhaps afterwards a trip to SD, a nice Porterhouse, glass of wine, a trip to Petco with a lead pipe... (players can't be traded while on DL)

jiggin
07-07-2008, 04:41 PM
It's 100% OK for us to ask- although the A's can refuse, all they have to provide are his medical records updated to the day of the trade

that is actually incorrect. The team trading for the player and their medical staff actually do the examine (in their offices) prior to the trade being complete. The medical records exchange hands during the discussion of the trade, but an exam by the team trading for the player has to clear him after a thorough exam. That exam can involve anything they want in order to remove any doubt that the player is injured in any way. They can do x-rays or any other medical check on that player prior to the deal being official.

Acronym
07-07-2008, 04:58 PM
If that's the case, were a deal to be done, as Hendry I'd absolutely insist our doctors give the thoroughest possible examination, given his history and his last couple poor starts with bad velocity.

duce5858
07-07-2008, 05:00 PM
If the padres are trying to deal a pitcher then i guess id just take peavy...;)

rccubsfan
07-07-2008, 05:03 PM
if peavy were on the market i would give them our farm system, everyone, except vitters, who they would most likely start with

docfunkenstein
07-07-2008, 05:05 PM
no wolf!

damon berryhill
07-07-2008, 05:49 PM
Except Burnett's ERA is 2.5 points higher than Harden's...

After the exchange rate it gets lower. Here is my .02, if anyone really gives a damn (hey, everyone else has ludicrous ideas, so why can't I speak a bit)

In an ideal world, I would take Harden first (and in aforementioned ideal world. we could be guaranteed he stays healthy all the way through Game 7 when he hands the ball off to Wood). Of the pitchers deemed "available" he has the best stuff. However, I am concerned about the supposed drop in velocity in his past 2 starts. Moreover, while Billy and Jimmy have a good dealing relationship, I don't see Harden coming for cheap. Im thinking 2-3 of our top 10 prospects, a good AA'er, and a PTBNL thrown in there. I won't speculate who, because, at the moment I don't have a firm grasp of the A's system and their needs.

As for AJ Burnett: It is a catch-22 on picking him up. If he has a good year, he opts out. If he has a bad year after we get him, we are sol AND hes doenst opt out, so we're on the hook for 24 mil. However, his price seems to be a lot more reasonable. If we could get away with Cedeno/AAAA prospect, it can be a great move. Furthermore, I have a feeling (about as informative and quantifiable as the "scrappiness" of a player) AJ, if he does come over, pitches well in Chicago for a few reasons: (1) First and foremost, he gets out of Toronto and off a club with little direction at the moment; (2) He seems pretty energized about the possibility of being on a contender (specifically Chicago); (3) Going into the second half, he may actually realize that this could be a contract year for him.

It would be nice to see Jimmy kick the tires on a few others around the league in my mind... whether they are realistic is another matter:

Tim Hudson- I think he moves ONLY if they realize they cannot lock down Texiera. If that happens, then Hoffpauer might actually have some trade value in our system and could be a piece (although not a centerpiece, obviously) that the braves could consider. Perhaps even if they need to dump $$$ if they do lock up Texiera.

Zach Greinke- Head case or not, I like the kids stuff. Whether or not his psyche (sp?) is made out of something other than glass is another thing altogether. Though I feel getting him on a team that is actually contending will most likely prevent him from losing his passion for the game again. I don't necessarily see us having anything that they need though.

Aaron Harang- Not an ace. Not really on his game this year. However, he sure is a horse. cant hurt to ask.


Not a starter, but Heilman from teh mets. He has lost a lot of face in NY. Could be had for cheap(er) than before and could really bolster the pen even more.

Understandably, this does not have a whole lot of teeth to it, but the wheels have been turning for too long and I just wanted to throw out what was on my mind. Take it as you will

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 06:01 PM
"Find out what ace the Cubs have their eyes on"

Coming up on Sportscenter now....

turnaround3
07-07-2008, 06:02 PM
I just saw that too...

If even a whiff of Randy Wolf is mentioned in this "potential ace" discussion...

I will yack.

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 06:03 PM
Would they call Harden an ace?

Guess we'll find out...

cowboydoc45
07-07-2008, 06:03 PM
"Find out what ace the Cubs have their eyes on"

Coming up on Sportscenter now....

:speechless: its Wolf isn't it... I just know it has to be Wolf... I don't know if we have the pieces to get him... someone might steal him out from under us :cry: :rolleyes:

croce_99
07-07-2008, 06:04 PM
Talking about the C.C. trade now :yawn:

mawp
07-07-2008, 06:04 PM
More worthless blabber on BSPN.

turnaround3
07-07-2008, 06:06 PM
Would they call Harden an ace?


You wouldn't?

croce_99
07-07-2008, 06:07 PM
"Cubs are interested in rich harden"

Borrrring

croce_99
07-07-2008, 06:07 PM
"they want someone to go between zambrano and dempster"

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 06:07 PM
"Reports are Cubs interested in Rich Harden"

Steve Phillips:

Don't make a bad deal in response.

They want a front end of the rotation guy. Harden would be that kind of guy.

turnaround3
07-07-2008, 06:07 PM
Ugh, nothing new. Yawn.

croce_99
07-07-2008, 06:08 PM
Nothing new was discussed. everything we already knew

Wrigleyboy25
07-07-2008, 06:08 PM
I'll just merge this to the Harden thread.

Shunoo
07-07-2008, 06:08 PM
Lets Get Peavy!

turnaround3
07-07-2008, 06:10 PM
Lets Get Peavy!

The Padres don't even have a reason to give up on this season with the state of the disastrous NL West, why give up on the foreseeable future?