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View Full Version : Is the rivalry dead?



knittingmill
07-06-2008, 05:04 PM
I can't believe I saw a RED SOX - YANKEES game where 7 players were hbp and nary a snarl or cross word was seen or heard. OK, ramirez probably thought it was penance for beating up an old guy (is that a hairshirt underneath his jersey?). But you woulda thought the yankees would've taken a step towards the mound just to rev up their sputtering motor but then there's masterson on the mound the reincarnation of opie taylor. how can you get mad at him? he should ask giambi where he bought his 'stache. :sad2:

RedSoxtober
07-06-2008, 05:08 PM
The rivalry isn't dead; these guys are just smart enough not to get drawn into something stupid before the All Star Game. The Yankees have been playing decently lately and the Sox can't afford to lose anyone right now.

ThreeIfBaerga
07-06-2008, 05:53 PM
It's not a rivalry if one team doesn't really matter. The reason the rivalry was so good in 03-04-05 because the Red Sox and Yankees were two of the 4 best teams in baseball, and they were so evenly matched it. This year the Yankees aren't competing for anything and can't get out of their own way. Red Sox-Rays has taken the place of Red Sox-Yankees because the Rays are relevant and winning games. If the Yankees start winning again the rivalry will matter again.

vince wilfort
07-06-2008, 10:20 PM
It's not a rivalry if one team doesn't really matter. The reason the rivalry was so good in 03-04-05 because the Red Sox and Yankees were two of the 4 best teams in baseball, and they were so evenly matched it. This year the Yankees aren't competing for anything and can't get out of their own way. Red Sox-Rays has taken the place of Red Sox-Yankees because the Rays are relevant and winning games. If the Yankees start winning again the rivalry will matter again.

I agree with that statement, but not with your reasoning. I think there's now a lot more bad blood in the Red Sox-Rays rivalry, but it's too early to count the Yankees out of the race.

ryder004
07-06-2008, 10:52 PM
cheer up guys u got a new rivalry with the rays:smoking:

Tragedy
07-06-2008, 10:55 PM
No, the rivalry isn't dead. It's still very good.

Fights or no fights, it's still intense. They are the Division rivals and the team we looked up at for many years.

Mr.drew
07-06-2008, 11:14 PM
its not dead, not even close to it. i live in connecticut which is extremly split for both teams and i see it every day. just ask yourself would you rather see the yankees win ANOTHER championship or the rays win their first after never playing well iin the past? i would be okay with any other team winning over the yankees. Red Sox/Yankees is the best rivalry in baseball period

yaowowrocket11
07-06-2008, 11:59 PM
If the Yanks still have Joba and Farnsworth, then anything is possible!

:rolleyes:

BigEric
07-07-2008, 12:15 AM
I think it's on temporary pause because of the Rays. Man I really can't stand the Rays right now.

Brooke
07-07-2008, 06:40 AM
It's not dead, it will never be dead.

RedSoxtober
07-07-2008, 10:20 AM
I agree with that statement, but not with your reasoning. I think there's now a lot more bad blood in the Red Sox-Rays rivalry, but it's too early to count the Yankees out of the race.

I don't agree with the statement at all. The Yankees are not relevant? Not winning? They started slowly but are 5 games over .500 and trail the Sox by only 3 games in the LC. They are very relevent.

The difference is in the Rays not the rivalry. Remember, this is the team that put the Yankees third string catcher on the DL in a reasonably meaningless spring training game. I think that Maddon is reckless and irresponsible at the helm. He's determined to "make a statement" every time out, demanding "respect" through over-aggressive and occasionally dirty play. If you look at the dustups in the AL this year, how many have those kids been involved in? I think Maddon is leading a bunch of willing kids poorly.

The Sox and Yankees just don't need to prove to each other that they belong. The series this weekend was great... great baseball, very even, and very intense. The teams respect each other as only two heavyweights who've faced each other over 100 times in five years can.

lil'papi
07-08-2008, 08:40 AM
Preach brother......^^^ but in my case it's to the choir. :D

Maddon has made the rivalry with things he does to garner respect. Either he is brilliant or stupid. I prefer stupid. They are RIPE to fall out of their tree and remember young players hate adversity and they are about to venture into some.

As for the Yankees It's hard to get up for them right now. The RS players just want wins the Yankees the same. We are both chasing and putting the Rays in our collective sights.

The Yankees rivalry never ends it just takes a back seat until the Rays fall out of that tree. ;)

Towelie
07-08-2008, 08:47 AM
I still remember talking **** to a fan of the yankee's during the series, so no it isn't dead.

Like I have said before I don't think the rays have the team to stay afloat in the second half. Too many young pitching to stay healthy and a closer is who far to old IMO. I expect a bullpen who was worst in the MLB last year to start to show it's colors. This team will not be in the playoffs this year, however I think next year might be a different story.

lil'papi
07-08-2008, 09:15 AM
Rivalry depends on where you live in the NE it's never dead. In other areas where fans are bangwagoneers they lose interest and it becomes mute.
In the NE we always have yankees fans to razz or them
razz us....

location ,location ,location.......

RedSoxtober
07-08-2008, 09:43 AM
I still remember talking **** to a fan of the yankee's during the series, so no it isn't dead.

Like I have said before I don't think the rays have the team to stay afloat in the second half. Too many young pitching to stay healthy and a closer is who far to old IMO. I expect a bullpen who was worst in the MLB last year to start to show it's colors. This team will not be in the playoffs this year, however I think next year might be a different story.

Towelie talked smack to a Yankee fan? :speechless:

ManRam
07-08-2008, 10:40 AM
Red Sox/Rays hasn't overtaken Red Sox/Yankees. A half a year of good competition doesn't overrule a hundred years of rivalry. This year, the games vs. the Rays are still more important, but nothing tastes worse than losing to the Yankees...still. I think the Rays are more than legit, but it isn't anything compared to the Yankees/Sox rivalry. It probably is our second biggest rivalry now, but let's not get ahead of our selves.

And last time I checked, Tito has a .500 winning percentage vs. the Yankees since he's taken over. Can't expect much more than that from a rivalry.

ThreeIfBaerga
07-08-2008, 10:51 AM
Red Sox/Rays hasn't overtaken Red Sox/Yankees. A half a year of good competition doesn't overrule a hundred years of rivalry. This year, the games vs. the Rays are still more important, but nothing tastes worse than losing to the Yankees...still. I think the Rays are more than legit, but it isn't anything compared to the Yankees/Sox rivalry. It probably is our second biggest rivalry now, but let's not get ahead of our selves.

And last time I checked, Tito has a .500 winning percentage vs. the Yankees since he's taken over. Can't expect much more than that from a rivalry.

The history doesn't mean anything right now. The Yankees aren't relevant. The Sox aren't trying to catch up to/stay ahead of the Yankees, so the games don't mean as much. They do mean a lot more when the Sox are playing the Rays, because the Rays are actually good.

knittingmill
07-08-2008, 10:55 AM
my yankees-fan-friend asked me who i wanted to win the rays-yankees series and i have to admit i just wanna see those F'in yankees lose.

yaowowrocket11
07-08-2008, 10:58 AM
my yankees-fan-friend asked me who i wanted to win the rays-yankees series and i have to admit i just wanna see those F'in yankees lose.

Personally, I want the Red Sox to win the division. Therefore, the only way they do that is if the Rays lose. I hate the Yankees as much as the next guy, but right now, they are 3rd place in the AL East, not first. Unless they surpass the Sox, I want to see the Yankees beat the Rays.

RedSoxtober
07-08-2008, 02:25 PM
The history doesn't mean anything right now. The Yankees aren't relevant. The Sox aren't trying to catch up to/stay ahead of the Yankees, so the games don't mean as much. They do mean a lot more when the Sox are playing the Rays, because the Rays are actually good.

I still need you to explain how the team that's only three games behind us in the loss column "isn't relevant". I would have to guess that you're thinking that the Rays are the only relevant team because the Sox need to gain ground on them to take back first place but that's pretty shortsighted.

Let's say that over the next month the Sox play .600 like they did a year ago, the Yankees play .700 like they did a year ago, and the Rays slump without Percival (e.g., losing by 3 to the Royals in extras...) and go .500:



Team Month Overall WPct GB
TBR 13-13 68-46 .596 ---
BOS 14-9 67-48 .579 1.5
NYY 19-7 66-49 .574 2.5


None of that is impossible but now the irrelevant ones are within a game of the Sox and less than 3 games from first place.

The Yankees are very relevant because they are very close to BOS and it's entirely reasonable for them to make up ground faster than the Sox if the Sox misfire. Only need one more 3-7 stretch the see them even with or trailing NYY.

ThreeIfBaerga
07-08-2008, 06:05 PM
I still need you to explain how the team that's only three games behind us in the loss column "isn't relevant". I would have to guess that you're thinking that the Rays are the only relevant team because the Sox need to gain ground on them to take back first place but that's pretty shortsighted.

Let's say that over the next month the Sox play .600 like they did a year ago, the Yankees play .700 like they did a year ago, and the Rays slump without Percival (e.g., losing by 3 to the Royals in extras...) and go .500:



Team Month Overall WPct GB
TBR 13-13 68-46 .596 ---
BOS 14-9 67-48 .579 1.5
NYY 19-7 66-49 .574 2.5


None of that is impossible but now the irrelevant ones are within a game of the Sox and less than 3 games from first place.

The Yankees are very relevant because they are very close to BOS and it's entirely reasonable for them to make up ground faster than the Sox if the Sox misfire. Only need one more 3-7 stretch the see them even with or trailing NYY.



Yes but the Yankees of this year are not the Yankees of last year. Last year they were very unlucky, and their W-L suffered because of it. Their pythag was way ahead of their record and their RS-RA ratio was way too high for a team with the record they had. This year, however, they're right where they should be, with no help in sight.

Superiority
07-08-2008, 09:31 PM
Joba and Youkilis will brawl eventually...
that is...if Youkilis actually steps up and doesn't just whine to the umpire

RSF1977
07-08-2008, 11:51 PM
A couple of things here,
RST you explained this a bit more rationally than I will but this is how I feel.
First, When the Hell did sox fans get SO f'n cocky that they think they can write off the Yankees so fast? I'm sorry but the Yankees Are STILL Relevant.
all its gonna take is a few injuries to come the sox way and bam we are done.
Need I remind everyone about 2005? So don't count anybody out yet.

Second The Sox and Rays don't have a rivalry per se it is more of a feud.
History DOES make a rivalry and I will ALWAYS root for the Yankees to lose. It is second nature.
Here is an example of a rivalry outside of baseball so some of us can take our heads out of our @#$%^%.
When Michigan and Ohio play against each other in college football it does not matter if one team sucks and the other is good, They still want to kill each other. Thats a rivalry.

Let ESPN love the Rays It is a Long season and there is a lot of baseball left to be played. They can fizzle out at any time and hit a swoon.

Finally, trust me Yankee fans are biting their tongues right now. I would hold off on slamming anybody right now.

EOR
or
End of rant:D

lil'papi
07-09-2008, 08:10 AM
A couple of things here,
RST you explained this a bit more rationally than I will but this is how I feel.
First, When the Hell did sox fans get SO f'n cocky that they think they can write off the Yankees so fast? I'm sorry but the Yankees Are STILL Relevant.
all its gonna take is a few injuries to come the sox way and bam we are done.
Need I remind everyone about 2005? So don't count anybody out yet.

Second The Sox and Rays don't have a rivalry per se it is more of a feud.
History DOES make a rivalry and I will ALWAYS root for the Yankees to lose. It is second nature.
Here is an example of a rivalry outside of baseball so some of us can take our heads out of our @#$%^%.
When Michigan and Ohio play against each other in college football it does not matter if one team sucks and the other is good, They still want to kill each other. Thats a rivalry.

Let ESPN love the Rays It is a Long season and there is a lot of baseball left to be played. They can fizzle out at any time and hit a swoon.

Finally, trust me Yankee fans are biting their tongues right now. I would hold off on slamming anybody right now.

EOR
or
End of rant:D

We've won a couple series now, let the anst go , relax , smile .....enjoy the ride. :D

Pitching will dictate who wins and loses like it has over the years. We simply have better depth and better pitching than the Yankees.
Until they make a run like it or not they aren't the chief rival. Are they still hated , of course , you root hard against them when it doesn't benefit the Sawx.
Right now it benefits us that NYY's win. When this Rays series is over we can then go back to hating them. A rivalry will always exist in the NE or in RS nation. It just isn't as meaningful until its us and them alone fighting for a spot.
They aren't going to play .700 BB this year. Well possibly for a 10 game stretch , but unless they get good starting pitching they will be win one lose one.
They also now have ARod doing his ~ thang. Trust me that hurts them.

At the end , if they are there , our rivarly will be them. I agree you can't wash off 100 yrs of misfortune and being the underdogs. But we can relax and enjoy the events of the last few years.
I preferred the underdog roll but we can't pretend.

.........here's to a good Rays - Yanks brawl.......:smoking:

RedSoxtober
07-09-2008, 09:35 AM
Yes but the Yankees of this year are not the Yankees of last year. Last year they were very unlucky, and their W-L suffered because of it. Their pythag was way ahead of their record and their RS-RA ratio was way too high for a team with the record they had. This year, however, they're right where they should be, with no help in sight.

You really get stuck in the specific illustrations and miss the point. I simply threw out some numbers to illustrate that it's not unreasonable to suggest that NYY could make up ground faster than the Red Sox.

The only difference between their two seasons at this point, at least with regard to W-L, is the first two months of baseball. The Sox went 34-24 through May 31 while NYY was 28-27. Since that time they're both 20-15. What happens if the Sox falter? What if they just go through a post-Papi let down, faltering when Ortiz is not able to provide the boost they need? All they have to do is play .500 over a similar 36 game span (ASG=>Sep 1) and the Yankees could catch up by playing at their pythag-predicted rate, right?

If repeating a "Yankees are irrelevant" mantra helps you sleep at night, then great. I'll take the advice that auto makers offer: Objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear.

lil'papi
07-09-2008, 09:43 AM
My mirrors don't say that!

Yankees ARE never irrelevant...never, ever, never. That's simply burnt into every real RS fans psyche.

But the present situation dictates the Rays are now a rival.

Those mirrors can't pitch can they?

CBON9
07-09-2008, 03:43 PM
The history doesn't mean anything right now. The Yankees aren't relevant. The Sox aren't trying to catch up to/stay ahead of the Yankees, so the games don't mean as much. They do mean a lot more when the Sox are playing the Rays, because the Rays are actually good.

Yankee fan here - Its funny for you to say that the Yankees aren't relevant. We are 3 games behind you. Not 13... A sweep of a series either way can change all that. We have our two hottest hitting players in June both on the DL, along with two SPs. For God's sake we have Sidney Ponson, the fat tub of goo pitching for us right now! Since these guys (Lord willing) won't stay injured for too much longer, I honestly wouldn't write us off anytime soon. There is a lot of baseball left. If the roles were reversed, I am smart enough to know that I sure as hell would never write off Boston.

Right now, we need not be so concerned with eachother, but more with the Rays. They are on top. Neither of us are.

Sc00py
07-09-2008, 05:59 PM
This thread is dumb. Why would the rivalry be over? Because 7 batters got HBP and no fight broke out?? They seemed to be all unintentional, hence the lack of a warning to both teams.

I was more pissed after we lost the last 2 games of the yankees series than being swept by the Rays.

lil'papi
07-10-2008, 08:19 AM
This thread is dumb. Why would the rivalry be over? Because 7 batters got HBP and no fight broke out?? They seemed to be all unintentional, hence the lack of a warning to both teams.

I was more pissed after we lost the last 2 games of the yankees series than being swept by the Rays.

Not me. I prefer to lose to a team behind us than get swept by a team in front. I don't care whats on their chest. It's July now....
Plus we played pretty well in the NY series whereas the TB series we didn't.

scottyc04901
07-11-2008, 07:01 PM
its not dead...its just not showing as much because it isnt a fight for first place anymore