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View Full Version : Here's why it's OK if JO isn't an offensive force...



Joshmantis
07-06-2008, 12:36 AM
http://raptors.******.com/articles/46/20080630/raptorlands_new_carnivore/


If I like what Indiana is doing, a love what Toronto just did. Adding the unquestionably best player in the deal, the Raptors are bringing in a player who will have an immediate impact (unlike Hibbert, or whomever the Raptors would’ve drafted at seventeen), plays a position of need (unlike Ford) and carries a reputation of intimidation (unlike Nesterovic). At 6’11” and 260 pounds, O’Neal has the kind of size the Raptors need down low, along with a refined offensive game and top-notch defensive skills. He’s had injury problems recently, looking lackluster in 42 games last season, yet still managed to put up 2.0 offensive rebounds and 2.1 blocked shots per game in only 28.7 minutes.

O’Neal professes to be healthy, which is really the crux of this trade. The O’Neal of 2000-2007 (20.0PPG, 9.8RPG, 2.4BPG) would be a boon. The O’Neal of last season (13.6PPG, 6.7RPG, 40 missed games) might not be so great. What’s absolutely certain, though, is that O’Neal’s offensive rebounding (at least 2.0 per game every season since 2000, except for 1.9 per game in 2004/2005) and shot-blocking (at least 2.0 per game every season since 2000) are showing no sign of slipping. The Raptors have not had a player average 2+ blocks per game since Keon Clark in 2000/2001, the only season in which the Raptors have ever advanced beyond the first round of the playoffs. (Antonio Davis averaged 1.9 blocks per game that year as well, which no Raptor has met since.) O’Neal’s presence on the offensive glass and swatting shots will be enormous even if he isn’t going to be an exceptional scorer.

This, of course, is only a sample from the article. But it has put any lingering worries to rest. Because it states that really his blocks and offensive boards will have a huge trickle effect along with an intimidation factor.
I've heard all kinds of comments about this trade, both positive and negative but this article seems to be a very good critique. Maybe Dave F. at The Star should read it.

truRAPTORSfan
07-06-2008, 01:29 AM
hey if J.O. comes in and gives us 13 or14 rebounds and 2 blocks i don't care if he score 2 to 10 pionts as longs as he protecting that rim

lukeem21
07-06-2008, 01:55 AM
i noticed the blocks early... no less than 2 blks per game in any season since he started getting burn... 2blks and 10rebs and i'm pretty happy.... those have easily been our biggest problems but since we're all so used to sucking down low i think our fans have been complacent about it....


"We got outrebounded by 20, and they doubled us at points in the paint but we lost this game because of the 16 turnovers." not an actual quote but it is the way i believe a lot of people around the team, from fans to brass have been looking at it

ink
07-06-2008, 02:20 AM
Not only is it not a problem if JO isn't an offensive force, it's preferable if he supports Bosh in all the other ways no other big man has ever supported Bosh before for the Raptors. If he defers to CB4 on offense it will only help the team.

Tom Stone
07-06-2008, 06:44 AM
http://raptors.******.com/articles/46/20080630/raptorlands_new_carnivore/



This, of course, is only a sample from the article. But it has put any lingering worries to rest. Because it states that really his blocks and offensive boards will have a huge trickle effect along with an intimidation factor.
I've heard all kinds of comments about this trade, both positive and negative but this article seems to be a very good critique. Maybe Dave F. at The Star should read it.

I agree compleatly...but I think jose will get jermaine easy buckets....way more than he was used to in indy, and he'll be good offencely.

JermanJaysFan
07-06-2008, 08:44 AM
Not only is it not a problem if JO isn't an offensive force, it's preferable if he supports Bosh in all the other ways no other big man has ever supported Bosh before for the Raptors. If he defers to CB4 on offense it will only help the team.

I wouldn't call it preferable, because ideally he still drops 15-20 per game as a compliment to Bosh. But I see what you are saying; his main value comes as a guy that can mix it up with other big men and take some of that pressure off of Bosh.

Bricklayer
07-06-2008, 11:39 AM
Bosh has never played with a real big man before, this should take his game to another level.

Bob_at_york
07-06-2008, 02:43 PM
What... are you assuming he won't be an offensive force?

The Wise 1
07-06-2008, 03:45 PM
I said it as soon as it was rumored that even though his offensive game has dropped considerably I didnt care about that. All I cared about was that he was going to bring toughness, leadership, rebounding and defense. Something that this team lacks. I expect Chris's defense and blocked shots to go up this year also, simply because he will be seeing Oneal doing it.


What... are you assuming he won't be an offensive force?

I expect him to be able to create his own shot better then anyone not named Bosh (that's not saying much though :)), but I dont expect him to be a offensive FORCE. He's mainly a jump shooting big now and when he goes in the post he settles for a fade away. I'm hoping that now that he's the #2 option he wont take so many bad shots and he can raise his shooting average over 45%.

_Sn1P3r_
07-06-2008, 04:00 PM
We really don't need him to be an offensive force because we needed a big centre who could block, defend in the paint and is aggresive. His offensive attire is a bonus for us and will just make our frontcourt even deadlier.

JermanJaysFan
07-06-2008, 04:14 PM
I said it as soon as it was rumored that even though his offensive game has dropped considerably I didnt care about that. All I cared about was that he was going to bring toughness, leadership, rebounding and defense. Something that this team lacks. I expect Chris's defense and blocked shots to go up this year also, simply because he will be seeing Oneal doing it.



I expect him to be able to create his own shot better then anyone not named Bosh (that's not saying much though :)), but I dont expect him to be a offensive FORCE. He's mainly a jump shooting big now and when he goes in the post he settles for a fade away. I'm hoping that now that he's the #2 option he wont take so many bad shots and he can raise his shooting average over 45%.
This is what concerns me. I am hoping that the jump-shooting/fade-away phase can be attributed to shying away from contact due to injuries, and that a healthy JO can be more of a post-up/low post presence. If he goes back to that style of play, he will be a perfect compliment to CB4.

IndyFan
07-06-2008, 06:25 PM
This is what concerns me. I am hoping that the jump-shooting/fade-away phase can be attributed to shying away from contact due to injuries, and that a healthy JO can be more of a post-up/low post presence. If he goes back to that style of play, he will be a perfect compliment to CB4.

get used to the fade-away jump shot in the post. that is his move. it is a good move and he will make the shot, but if you let it, it will drive you crazy. he used that shot the whole time he was in indy.

:)

Raptors27
07-06-2008, 07:57 PM
get used to the fade-away jump shot in the post. that is his move. it is a good move and he will make the shot, but if you let it, it will drive you crazy. he used that shot the whole time he was in indy.

:)

if he hits 60% of the time, no problem lol

argo
07-06-2008, 08:14 PM
This is what concerns me. I am hoping that the jump-shooting/fade-away phase can be attributed to shying away from contact due to injuries, and that a healthy JO can be more of a post-up/low post presence. If he goes back to that style of play, he will be a perfect compliment to CB4.

JO's always had a good post up, back to the basket game. i think you'll see either he, or Bosh in the post - with the other backing off, stretching the floor a bit because they can both shoot.

also, they both have good bball IQs and can pass well out of double teams.

i think the most exciting prospect of these two on the court together is on the defensive end - Bosh has had little-to-no help down low in years, and now the opposing team will second guess driving into the paint knowing those two are there to block the shot.

JermanJaysFan
07-06-2008, 08:56 PM
JO's always had a good post up, back to the basket game. i think you'll see either he, or Bosh in the post - with the other backing off, stretching the floor a bit because they can both shoot.

also, they both have good bball IQs and can pass well out of double teams.

i think the most exciting prospect of these two on the court together is on the defensive end - Bosh has had little-to-no help down low in years, and now the opposing team will second guess driving into the paint knowing those two are there to block the shot.

Bosh isn't a very prolific shot-blocker, but no doubt he is somewhat of an imposing figure down there. Also- don't forget about the Raptors best shot blocker this year in Moon. JO/Bosh/Moon can guard the rim pretty well I must say.

Master P
07-06-2008, 09:30 PM
oneal might shoot a fade away, but as long as he starts his move to get that shot with his back to the basket it still counts as post player. backing down some and suddenly releasing for a quick / open turn around that nobody can block...sounds like a post move to me.

Legitimate
07-06-2008, 10:01 PM
J.O was playing injured last year and still averaged sufficient numbers, something like 27 min a game, 13 points and like 7 boards and 2 blocks. He took a lot of time last year to rehabilitate his knee, so last year he was playing with just one knee. But now his knee is fully healthy, so basically you can legitimately claim he will have better averages than last year because he will be playing ball with both his knees. Before all his injuries when he was "all-right", I honestly thought he was the most finess big man, with combine speed, skill and profiency, way before he was a raptor. So what he isn't a large dominent big-man in the paint, but still averages 2 blocks when he isn't fully healthy. He is the most finess big-man next to Chris Bosh. People are acting as if J.O is getting old, he is only turning 30, for all you know he is fully healthy and could be in his prime next year next to Chris Bosh. This means the Raptors are going to be a lot better, even if J.0 is injured raps will still make the playoffs, so it is worth the risk in signing such a contract. Calderon is going to be an all-star this year, I would risk my life on that. J.O is one of the most elite big-men in the NBA when healthy, isn't that worth the risk? He brings speed, defence, and pure skill. Raptors are going to win 50+ games this year, with J.O. J.O said his knee is feeling the best it has in 2 years. 2 fast and skilled big man down-low, just imagine, how the offence could run with Calderon getting more minutes and developing his game.

Joshmantis
07-07-2008, 01:17 AM
Does anyone think JO could average more than Bosh? And what impact will JO have on Bargs? Will he be able to teach Bargs anything?

R. Johnson#3
07-07-2008, 01:36 AM
Honestly, he'll be a perfect outlet for Bosh if he's being double teamed. He's also gonna be getting close to the rim.

Fion
07-07-2008, 01:56 AM
Does anyone think JO could average more than Bosh? And what impact will JO have on Bargs? Will he be able to teach Bargs anything?

rebounds? sure thats possible.

R. Johnson#3
07-07-2008, 01:58 AM
Also, it'll be hard to double team Bosh when you have O'Neal, Bosh and Calderon on the floor together.

JermanJaysFan
07-07-2008, 07:11 AM
Also, it'll be hard to double team Bosh when you have O'Neal, Bosh and Calderon on the floor together.

If Kapono is out there too...

Jose/Parker/Kapono/Bosh/O'Neal

Jose dumps it inside to Bosh. Bosh either gets:

a) Doubled, in which case he tosses it to one of three knock-down shooters, or passes to JO for the jam
b) Isn't double-teamed, in which case he takes his man to the rack, or shoots over him

Game, set, match. :D

B2B
07-07-2008, 07:45 AM
My only concern is him staying healthy.

The Wise 1
07-07-2008, 08:13 AM
If Kapono is out there too...

Jose/Parker/Kapono/Bosh/O'Neal

Jose dumps it inside to Bosh. Bosh either gets:

a) Doubled, in which case he tosses it to one of three knock-down shooters, or passes to JO for the jam
b) Isn't double-teamed, in which case he takes his man to the rack, or shoots over him

Game, set, match. :D

If we run that offense all we are going to see is the same defense we have seen in the playoffs for the past 2 years. Where a guy guards Bosh straight up and the other 4 guys are just outside the paint. It's been proven effective against us because we dont have a 2 or 3 that can get to the rim.