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Arenaslover
07-04-2008, 09:05 PM
I think so.

Raptors27
07-04-2008, 09:06 PM
No.

MiamiHeat
07-04-2008, 09:08 PM
no

King Koopa
07-04-2008, 09:09 PM
no D.Howard is all i got to say, when he wants too, he wont let you come into his lane.

WillisLovechild
07-04-2008, 09:19 PM
nope.

khoolit_jom#8
07-04-2008, 09:21 PM
nah!!!!

lakers4sho
07-04-2008, 09:22 PM
He's a top 3. But number 1 center is arguably D-Howard.

AgentViet
07-04-2008, 09:27 PM
2nd best when healthy. There's a man named Dwight Howard in the NBA though, so he can't be the best.

PackCrewBuckBad
07-04-2008, 09:33 PM
nope

grega1976
07-04-2008, 09:36 PM
All you D. Howard lovers should realize that Yao OWNS Howard everytime they play.. Yao can shoot, has post moves, makes freethrows. Howard is a better defender and more atheletic, not nearly as injury prone, but right now I still give Yao the edge, he's way more versitile.. D Howard will probably end up being better, but not right now

ii77daman
07-04-2008, 09:41 PM
ya is stupid for thinkin d howard is better.....sure he might b more fun to watch but yao is better than d howard for sure....he owns d howard everytime they play ....yao is a better shooter and everything....ya cant say d howard if that much better of a defender cause yao alters alot of shots and is a good defender as well....rockets is a way better defensive team then orl....cause yao clogs the paint and protects it jus as well as howard, howward might b better in the future,but for now, yao is better for sure....he makes his Ft's and he has way more moves...

*Superman*
07-04-2008, 09:48 PM
For this thread, no he isn't the best and I have to believe that Dwight will OWN any center for a long time to come. He still needs some work though, but if your gonna say Dwight can't compete with Yao, your crazy.

TMAC94
07-04-2008, 09:58 PM
yao has post moves, as howard doesnt.

The83rdWonder
07-04-2008, 10:00 PM
He's a top 3. But number 1 center is arguably D-Howard.

Just wondering, who's the other center in the top 3? There's not that many centers can compare with Yao and Dwight, unless you count in Timmy Duncan. (I'd normally count Duncan as a PF as their line-up would say, but he plays a bit more 5 than 4. Al Jefferson and Amare are definitely 4s in my book)

I'll put Dwight at number one (more athletic; better on the boards; but doesn't have a 15 foot/mid range jumper), unless Yao goes insane next season and dumps 25/15/3.

Newport05
07-04-2008, 10:01 PM
1.Dwight howard







Everyone else

njnets
07-04-2008, 10:01 PM
dwight howard

lakers4sho
07-04-2008, 10:02 PM
Just wondering, who's the other center in the top 3? There's not that many centers can compare with Yao and Dwight, unless you count in Timmy Duncan. (I'd normally count Duncan as a PF as their line-up would say, but he plays a bit more 5 than 4. Al Jefferson and Amare are definitely 4s in my book)

I'll put Dwight at number one (more athletic; better on the boards; but doesn't have a 15 foot/mid range jumper), unless Yao goes insane next season and dumps 25/15/3.

Andrew Bynum :smoking:

The83rdWonder
07-04-2008, 10:03 PM
Andrew Bynum :smoking:

I knew that was coming :rolleyes:

Knicks845
07-04-2008, 10:05 PM
On the Real, He could be. If he didn't/doesn't keep getting injured, he has the whole package, Rebounding,Shooting,Free-Throws,Blocks. Thats what a great overall player does, he needs a few rings, to get this thrown and a couple of 82 game seasons :shrug:

LakeShow
07-04-2008, 10:15 PM
When it comes to overall impact, I'd have to say that Dwight Howard is the "best center in the NBA". Yao Ming has more post moves, better passing ability, and better shooting touch. However, because Yao doesn't attack with aggression enough and has been plagued by various injuries (which I don't see going away anytime soon), Howard is much more dominant.

Phann
07-04-2008, 10:19 PM
Most popular, but I wouldn't say the best.

chicagowhitesox
07-04-2008, 10:22 PM
Top 5. Not very close to #1.

BADizzleBoY
07-04-2008, 10:22 PM
I think so.

Not to be mean, but what planet are you from? Wrst the wizards being the best team in the east. And now Yao's the best center in the league. Look when you get blocked by Nate Robinson, you know you aren't the best center in the league. Plus he is SOFT for his size.

OUfan4life15
07-04-2008, 10:26 PM
Yao is definitely the best offensive cent in the league. Overall, I'd still give it to Yao over everyone else.

PrymaL
07-04-2008, 10:26 PM
Yao has a waaaay more complete game that Dwight, it seems like Dwight can only score with dunks or putbacks and crap like that, he needs to develop some kinda shot near the rim. I would say Yao is better.

BADizzleBoY
07-04-2008, 10:28 PM
Howard is a better overall player then yao. Howard>>>Yao.

Joshtd1
07-04-2008, 10:30 PM
Yes. Howard is good, but his offensive game is very raw. Limited post moves, and cant make a basket really outside of 5-8 feet. Terrible FT shooter as well, and can't really be given the ball at the end of the game.

Yao on the other hand has plenty of post moves, can shoot, and makes FT's at over 80%. He CAN be given the ball at the end of the games, because he has a huge advangate to shoot over someone, and if he does get fouled you can count on him to make them.

grega1976
07-04-2008, 10:31 PM
god there are alot of ESPN sheeple in here..
head to head
2007-2008
Yao 22.5pts 13.5reb 1.5blks
Dwight 18.5pts 9.5reb 2blks

2006-2007
Yao 37pts 7reb 4blks
Dwight 17pts 14reb 2.5blks

2005-2006
Yao 23pts 7.5reb 3blks
Dwight 9.5pts 10reb 1blk

I don't see how someone looking at these stats can even compare the two.. Yao WHEN HEALTHY is a better C by far.. I think Howard will end up being better if he gets with a coach who can teach him some post moves, make him more than a dunker. However right now its not even close

BADizzleBoY
07-04-2008, 10:33 PM
You took 15 minutes out of you night to look that up didn't you? Does that matter? Look at the whole season. Howard IS clearly better.

daleja424
07-04-2008, 10:44 PM
no no no no no

Statik1
07-04-2008, 10:46 PM
If Yao is sooo good then why did Houston play better without him ............

69centers
07-04-2008, 10:47 PM
You took 15 minutes out of you night to look that up didn't you? Does that matter? Look at the whole season. Howard IS clearly better.

Trust me, when you can get rattled and thrown off your game when Scot Pollard is on you, you're not the best center in the league. Howard has some work to do if he wants to be considered the best.

Yao is tops, when he's healthy. The Rockets would have been facing the Celtics in the Finals if Yao wasn't injured.

Chi-Town Finest
07-04-2008, 10:48 PM
Is Tim Duncan considered a center?

ee
07-04-2008, 10:50 PM
He's definitely considered.....He scores in more ways, better passer, better footwork than DHoward who just overpower people....Yao is unpredictable because he can stretch the defense and makes him difficult to double coz he has great hands.....

grega1976
07-04-2008, 10:52 PM
Look at the whole season?
PPG Yao +1.3
Reb Howard +3.4
ast Yao +1
Blks Howard +0.13
Fg% Howard +9%
Ft% Yao +25%
Looks pretty even to me

grega1976
07-04-2008, 10:56 PM
If Yao is sooo good then why did Houston play better without him ............

They had a new coach and a new offense. McGrady at the begining of the season wasn't playing within Adelmans scheme so the Rockets were losing.. When McGrady got hurt Yao put the team on his shoulders and the rockets started winning. When McGrady came back he was a facilitator and the Rockets REALLY started winning.. then Yao got hurt.. after he had already started getting the team clicking.. anyone who says the rockets were better without Yao obviously a. doesn't watch the rockets, and b. has a very limited knowledge of Basketball

grega1976
07-04-2008, 10:57 PM
Is Tim Duncan considered a center?

usually not, if he were it would be
Duncan
Yao
Howard

PrymaL
07-04-2008, 10:59 PM
Look at the whole season?
PPG Yao +1.3
Reb Howard +3.4
ast Yao +1
Blks Howard +0.13
Fg% Howard +9%
Ft% Yao +25%
Looks pretty even to me

Umm are you forgetting that Yao got injured?

The83rdWonder
07-04-2008, 11:09 PM
Is Tim Duncan considered a center?

Supposedly he "shouldn't", but he plays a decent chunk of time at the 5.

Packersfan
07-04-2008, 11:09 PM
yao could be the best but there are health issues and although he does perform better than d.howard when they play each other...its hard 2 say no to a 22yr old beast, owning all the other centers in the league.

grega1976
07-04-2008, 11:13 PM
Umm are you forgetting that Yao got injured?

Umm and? I don't understand what that has to do with anything.. he played both games vs Orlando and dominated Howard... Yao's health wasn't the question.. and I believe I said in one of my posts that WHEN HEALTHY Yao is much better than Howard..especially head to head.... just look at the stats.

grega1976
07-04-2008, 11:14 PM
yao could be the best but there are health issues and although he does perform better than d.howard when they play each other...its hard 2 say no to a 22yr old beast, owning all the other centers in the league.

would you agree then that when Healthy Yao is better than Howard?

astrosmaniac
07-04-2008, 11:16 PM
Dwight will be better than Yao, but right now hes not. he gets more board and can dunk. yao can shoot, pass, and has better post mover. right now yao is better, but dwight will be better in a couple years

Packersfan
07-04-2008, 11:17 PM
yea i agree that when healthy, yao is better than howard.

Chi-Town Finest
07-04-2008, 11:18 PM
Since we really cant say Timmy then I got Howard and Yao pretty much even, Howard doesnt have the offensive skills as Yao and Yao lacks the athleticism and defense that Howard brings.

rhino17
07-04-2008, 11:21 PM
heade to head its not even close, howard may be a better rebounder, but the better player is Yao

onelove_05
07-04-2008, 11:22 PM
Timmy D is the best plain and simple. Say what you want to say but if your 7-feet or above and part of the "Twin Towers" duo, you are a center.

You can't be the best unless your on the court. Yao may look like the best center on paper but I would take Dwight Howard or Tyson Chandler any day of the week for their defense alone.

$KnicksAndKobe$
07-04-2008, 11:23 PM
Yao is a much better offensive player then Dwight

astrosmaniac
07-04-2008, 11:34 PM
If Yao is sooo good then why did Houston play better without him ............
They didn't. record wise they had a better winning percentage because they rode the winning streak without him. after the streak they were slightly over .500 without Yao. You obviously dont know basketball or the rockets

Howard is a better overall player then yao. Howard>>>Yao.
Wrong again. Dwight is a beast on the boards and he can dunk. i think it was something like over 30% of his FG were on dunks. To be the best Center in the league, you have to do more than dunl.

You took 15 minutes out of you night to look that up didn't you? Does that matter? Look at the whole season. Howard IS clearly better.
look at the whole season. he isn't anywhere close to "obviously" better:
22.0 PPG 10.8 RPG 2.3 APG
20.7 PPG 14.2 RPG 1.3 APG

Yao had more points. Dwight had more rebounds. Yao has more assists and Yao can shoot besides dunking. Anyone who says Dwight>>>Yao, has never seen Yao play more than 1 game

*Superman*
07-04-2008, 11:37 PM
Trust me, when you can get rattled and thrown off your game when Scot Pollard is on you, you're not the best center in the league. Howard has some work to do if he wants to be considered the best.

Yao is tops, when he's healthy. The Rockets would have been facing the Celtics in the Finals if Yao wasn't injured.

What are u smoking? Do you think the Rockets are better than the Lakers with Yao healthy? Damn your crazy. The Lakers :guns: the Rockets.

Strumpy
07-04-2008, 11:42 PM
Amare played Center before Shaq was traded. He still plays a load of time at center. Is he counted as one?

Anyway, Howard is the best center in the NBA

Statik1
07-04-2008, 11:42 PM
I thought us Laker fans were serious homers but damn are these Rocket fans love the smell of their own **** serious homers lol

And the only come back I have heard out of them is "You dont know basketball" Oh you dont watch the Rockets do you!"

Matter of fact no I dont not in my market nor did I pick up NBA ticket so I could watch them. Its all great that the Rockets do good in the regular season but until you guys can prove something in the playoffs then you can open you small minded mouths...

And at this point plz scroll to the top of the page and notice the vote is a 2:1 ratio..... 11:44 est


Oh and ......... http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/06/10/2004469893.jpg I EAT THE ROCKETS HOPES FOR LUNCH

superkegger
07-04-2008, 11:44 PM
yao may be the most skilled, but I'll take dwight howard if I need a center

crew158
07-04-2008, 11:45 PM
Howard is in another league defensively, doesnt get hurt all the time like Yao, and runs the floor. Houston played much better Without Yao

grega1976
07-05-2008, 12:04 AM
I thought us Laker fans were serious homers but damn are these Rocket fans love the smell of their own **** serious homers lol

And the only come back I have heard out of them is "You dont know basketball" Oh you dont watch the Rockets do you!"

Matter of fact no I dont not in my market nor did I pick up NBA ticket so I could watch them. Its all great that the Rockets do good in the regular season but until you guys can prove something in the playoffs then you can open you small minded mouths...
And at this point plz scroll to the top of the page and notice the vote is a 2:1 ratio..... 11:44 est
Oh and ......... http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/06/10/2004469893.jpg I EAT THE ROCKETS HOPES FOR LUNCH

I don't see you putting up any defense to your argument except the vote of a bunch of people on a thread posted on some NBA forum.. Where are your stats that back up your opinion? Does Howard have better Head to Head numbers? No Does Howard have better Season Numbers? NO Better Career numbers? No
as far as the playoffs HOLY ****IN **** the Magic won a playoff series in the Leastern Conference.. Wow that is ****ing amazing... get the **** out of here with that.. there are 2 good teams in the east compaired to 8-10 good teams in the west..

grega1976
07-05-2008, 12:09 AM
What are u smoking? Do you think the Rockets are better than the Lakers with Yao healthy? Damn your crazy. The Lakers :guns: the Rockets.

I think it would be pretty close.. Rockets match up good with lakers, and they won the season series 2:1 over LA

cmellofan15
07-05-2008, 12:18 AM
definitly... NOT

stawka
07-05-2008, 12:20 AM
I'm sick of people saying "Yao has post moves and Dwight hasn't". I'm sorry, but Dwight is quicker then any Center, and puts more fear in EVERYONE's eyes compared to Yao.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GeYn7_Djfas

Not bad for a guy that has no post moves... Post MOVES - not post fadeaways! I'd love to see Yao pull off a move like that. Howard>any Center in the league, and i'll put him in top-3 big men in the league behind KG and Duncan and on par with Amare.

ramz.n
07-05-2008, 12:31 AM
offensively- Yao
defensively- Camby
overall- Howard

Chi-Town Finest
07-05-2008, 12:38 AM
I'm sick of people saying "Yao has post moves and Dwight hasn't". I'm sorry, but Dwight is quicker then any Center, and puts more fear in EVERYONE's eyes compared to Yao.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GeYn7_Djfas

Not bad for a guy that has no post moves... Post MOVES - not post fadeaways! I'd love to see Yao pull off a move like that. Howard>any Center in the league, and i'll put him in top-3 big men in the league behind KG and Duncan and on par with Amare.
Look I understand your love for Howard and it's understandable but if you tell me that Yao has no post moves other than fadeaway's I would have to say you dont watch any other team but our own. Howard is good offensively and much better than Yao in other areas but offense is not one of them yet. Yao has a hook shot, a nice lil quick spin, a up & under move and im not even a Rocket fan. Im not saying Howard is not better but im not saying he is. Yao clearly has advantages on Howard as well as Howard on Yao. Offense goes to Yao, sorry.

29$JerZ
07-05-2008, 12:42 AM
I'll say this about Yao, Out of all the 7ft and Taller Players who have ever played in the NBA , he is one of the Few who use it to his advantage. I say Yao is The Best Center in the NBA for the reason he uses his size the Best and is a great offensive weapon.

Wade3
07-05-2008, 12:44 AM
Howard>Yao

grega1976
07-05-2008, 12:48 AM
I'm sick of people saying "Yao has post moves and Dwight hasn't". I'm sorry, but Dwight is quicker then any Center, and puts more fear in EVERYONE's eyes compared to Yao.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GeYn7_Djfas

Not bad for a guy that has no post moves... Post MOVES - not post fadeaways! I'd love to see Yao pull off a move like that. Howard>any Center in the league, and i'll put him in top-3 big men in the league behind KG and Duncan and on par with Amare.

amazingly this was on the same page you originally sent me to..http://youtube.com/watch?v=9fgEiDY8b5w&feature=related
doesn't look like a post fadeaway to me.. oh and they're both against the same defender.. just thought it was a little Ironic since you happened to put that you'd like to see Yao do something like that..

WSUJJ
07-05-2008, 12:50 AM
1 Dwight
2 Shaq
3 Andrew bogut

Joshtd1
07-05-2008, 12:52 AM
Whoever said they would take Chandler or Dwight over Yao just because of their D is really overrating those guy's D.

They are good shotblockers, but man to man they aren't that great. Dwight is solid, but he always bites on a lot of fakes and isn't smart when I see him play man to man D. Chandler is pretty weak, and is similar to Camby on D..great weak side shot blockers, but too thin to really guard the down low bangers.

grega1976
07-05-2008, 12:55 AM
1 Dwight
2 Shaq
3 Andrew bogut

Bogut:eyebrow:
Shaq.. maybe 3-4yrs ago..

Hurricane Chise
07-05-2008, 01:42 AM
Until Dwight Howard develops some type of offensive post game Yao Ming is the best center in the NBA.



That being said the Center is an endangered species in this league, the only legitimately good centers I can think of are Yao, Dwight, Bynum, and Sheed (who plays out of position). Chris Kayman (sp?), Sam Dalembert (not sure if he's a PF) and Brandon Haywood are serviceable too in my opinion.

Packersfan
07-05-2008, 02:18 AM
1 Dwight
2 Shaq
3 Andrew bogut

UR CRAZY. shaq is a shade of his former self, bogut....get serious.

FOBolous
07-05-2008, 02:21 AM
no D.Howard is all i got to say, when he wants too, he wont let you come into his lane.

you know why? cause he's mad at everyone else cause no1 else will let him get into the lane...he takes out his anger and frustration on the defensive end. poor guy...his aggressiveness on defense is just a mask to cover up the sad little boy deep insde who can't score no matter what he does.

SeoulBeatz
07-05-2008, 02:26 AM
yeah dwight really cant score, only 20.7 ppg...


Dwight is better than Yao.


basically every houston fan has come to this forum and said Yao is better... which is fine... everyone is a homer in some way or another.

but to the rest of the world?

Dwight>Yao....sorry

FOBolous
07-05-2008, 02:32 AM
yeah dwight really cant score, only 20.7 ppg...


Dwight is better than Yao.


basically every houston fan has come to this forum and said Yao is better... which is fine... everyone is a homer in some way or another.

but to the rest of the world?

Dwight>Yao....sorry

you know very well that Howard has no post moves.

plus not everyone who's defending Yao are Rocket fans.

seriously guys..think about it...on one hand, you have a player who can play on both end of the court...on the other hand, you have a player who can only play on one end of the court. who would you rather have?

not only that...Yao beats Howard every time they go head to head.

and yall know what else separates Dwight Howard and Yao? Yao can carry the team and Howard can't...Yao can carry the offense...can dwight? no. Yao can carry the team by himself...can Dwight? no. He can't even play on one end of the court much less carry the whole game by himself. The Magic probably couldn't win if both Tokoglu and Reshard Lewis got injured but the Rockets can still win if Tmac is injured. That's the difference between Dwight Howard and Yao...Yao can carry a team filled with role players to Ws without the help of another star player but Dwight Howard can't.

who knows? maybe Howard will get better and learn how to play on both end of the court one day...maybe after Howard learns how to play offensively...he can finally beat Yao in a head to head match up... but until than...Yao is better than Dwight Howard. 'nuff said.

_Sn1P3r_
07-05-2008, 09:26 AM
I'd rather take Dwight.

raptors_516
07-05-2008, 10:44 AM
dwight

stawka
07-05-2008, 11:01 AM
you know why? cause he's mad at everyone else cause no1 else will let him get into the lane...he takes out his anger and frustration on the defensive end. poor guy...his aggressiveness on defense is just a mask to cover up the sad little boy deep insde who can't score no matter what he does.

LMFAO!!!!! Post of the year. Dwight cant get in the lane? HAHAHA wow. 20PPG all from mid-range as a Center? No buddy, this aint Yao - it's Dwight we're talking about. All his points are either off dunks/hook shots or free throw's, not 15ft turn around fadeaway's

TMAC94
07-05-2008, 11:06 AM
Yao can dunk but dwight can dunk better, rebound and block, but offenisvly yao is better. alot better so id take yao, yao gets 20 and 10 but he takes better shots, and can actually hit a turnaround jumper if he needs too, he doesnt always go threw people and dunk.

bonafide1091
07-05-2008, 11:14 AM
dwight. howard.

TMAC94
07-05-2008, 11:27 AM
yao. MING

Vidball
07-05-2008, 11:34 AM
Yao has post moves but DHoward still shoots about 10% better than him from the field---thats huge. Howard grabs way more boards, is a better defender, is more athletic, and he stays healthy. He's better than Yao is right now and the gap will widen with each season. He is on the verge of being on a title contender--I don't think Yao will ever make the Finals...he and TMac are both made of glass.

marques724
07-05-2008, 11:37 AM
If you are not considering Duncan a center go with Howard

Vidball
07-05-2008, 11:40 AM
I just looked up their games played...Howard has played more games in the past 2 seasons than Yao has played in the past 3. Howard has never missed a game while Yao has been missing almost 40% of the season consistently.
And if Duncan in considered a center, he is definitely above Yao as well.

Statik1
07-05-2008, 12:43 PM
I just looked up their games played...Howard has played more games in the past 2 seasons than Yao has played in the past 3. Howard has never missed a game while Yao has been missing almost 40% of the season consistently.
And if Duncan in considered a center, he is definitely above Yao as well.

Verry good point! Thats why I laugh when the Yao fan boys on here post his stats and say ohhhh thats proof well the less games you play the better chance you have of keeping you average higher........... nuff said

fredv
07-05-2008, 12:49 PM
I prefere Howard as a star because he is fun to watch and yeah he did that superman dunk. Well great for him.

Now if your talking about who is the better pro and best Center, not showman. I'd have to go with Yao.

Ragun
07-05-2008, 12:49 PM
No he isnt.

Redbull
07-05-2008, 02:26 PM
It's hard to say, You can't go wrong with either Howard or Yao. Also Amare depending on if you count him as center.

Teeboy1487
07-05-2008, 02:30 PM
Best offensive center right now.

QuaLiThADoN
07-05-2008, 02:53 PM
no way is this guy the best if i was that tall i'd score 60ppg damn.... no way he is the best i got to go with D12

Nets fan 93
07-05-2008, 03:03 PM
lol he is banned.
anyway Yao. He has post moves while D12 doesnt. He has a J while d12 doesnt. He can shoot free throws while D12 cant.

Vidball
07-05-2008, 04:39 PM
^^All of those things you mentioned are offensive #'s, and even with those #'s, Yao only averages 1 more ppg and he shots 9% worse from the field. DHowards freak-athleticism more than makes up for his lack of a post game.

sanfranfan1210
07-05-2008, 06:43 PM
No

mweb08
07-05-2008, 06:53 PM
Duncan and Howard are better, and yes, Duncan is a center.

hockeypro68
07-05-2008, 07:10 PM
Dwight Howard plain and simple. And he's going to get even better. :speechless:

grega1976
07-05-2008, 07:16 PM
Verry good point! Thats why I laugh when the Yao fan boys on here post his stats and say ohhhh thats proof well the less games you play the better chance you have of keeping you average higher........... nuff said

The less games you play the more one bad game hurts you.. it works both ways.. You probably scored really well in Math huh..

Vidball
07-05-2008, 07:33 PM
The less games you play on a consistent basis, the more injury prone you are--you probably blew through doctorate school with no problems.

Vidball
07-05-2008, 07:41 PM
would you agree then that when Healthy Yao is better than Howard?

For the last 3 seasons Yao has been injured for 40% of the games that were played. Why does every other stat matter to you except that one? I would much rather have DHoward for 82 games than Yao for 50.

stevefrancis
07-05-2008, 07:48 PM
dwight howard isnt really a center because he has no low post game. most of his points are from jumping over his defender and dunking on them. yao ming scores most of his points with post moves and using his feet to move. and dwight howard would be a power foward on any other team. same with amare who played center but got switched to power foward because a real center in shaq came. tim duncan is the best center. cant say yao because hes too injury prone.

Gasolis#1option
07-05-2008, 10:29 PM
Yao = Dwight

Kdirt
07-05-2008, 10:45 PM
Id rather have Amare than Yao's injury prone *****. He missed so many games the last 2 seasons.

grega1976
07-05-2008, 10:49 PM
The less games you play on a consistent basis, the more injury prone you are--you probably blew through doctorate school with no problems.

That makes absolutely no sense.. We weren't discussing his injuries.. It's called reading comprehension, you should try it sometime..Yao has missed alot of games the past couple of years, but I would be willing to bet that he plays 70+ games this year.. His injuries aren't the type that are chronic.. his first 3 seasons he missed 2 games.. Over the last 3yrs he's had a few tough breaks..He had an infection in his toe that required surgery, a freak incident where he broke his leg, and a stress fracture.. The stress fracture somewhat worries me due to his size, however he's had alot of time for it to heal.. If anyone would like to place a bet on 70+ games let me know, we can work something out...

grega1976
07-05-2008, 10:53 PM
Id rather have Amare than Yao's injury prone *****. He missed so many games the last 2 seasons.

Both players rookie seasons were 02-03, Yao has played in 404games, Amare 381...

Dashtary
07-05-2008, 11:03 PM
Noo.. Yao is tall but he is too clumsy, he isnt built, like a guy like garnett or howard

grega1976
07-05-2008, 11:06 PM
For the last 3 seasons Yao has been injured for 40% of the games that were played. Why does every other stat matter to you except that one? I would much rather have DHoward for 82 games than Yao for 50.

Bill Walton is considered 1 of the 50 greatest players in NBA history, he's also a hall of famer and he missed 43% of his games over his 10 yr career.

grega1976
07-05-2008, 11:17 PM
Noo.. Yao is tall but he is too clumsy, he isnt built, like a guy like garnett or howard

If you consider Garnett built than I'm ****in Schwarzeneggeresque!!!! Howard is a big mother ****er, but Garnett is skinny as ****!! Howard has huge shoulders, but small skinny legs. Yao has a skinny upper body but HUGE legs..

I'm so bored I figured out how much each of them ways per inch in height.. I thought Howard would for sure be most, but here is how it goes...
Yao 3.44lbs/in height
Howard 3.19lbs/in height
KG 2.54lbs/in height

Dashtary
07-05-2008, 11:21 PM
i meant like how howard is pretty muscular and built, kind of like garnett. There is a difference between bein tall and big like yao and strong like d-howard

heyhey06
07-05-2008, 11:27 PM
1.Dwight howard







Everyone else


Dat true:clap:

heyhey06
07-05-2008, 11:29 PM
Duncan and Howard are better, and yes, Duncan is a center.

Go Spurs Go Duncan is A PF

TMAC94
07-05-2008, 11:39 PM
Yao Ming is better dwight howard.

grega1976
07-05-2008, 11:45 PM
Yao Ming is better dwight howard.

Just so you know you picked Howard on my thread I started earlier with stats and no names

TMAC94
07-05-2008, 11:50 PM
Just so you know you picked Howard on my thread I started earlier with stats and no names



yes i no

vorn29
07-05-2008, 11:59 PM
Shaq owns Yao still...

top 3

Dwight
Shaq
Yao


Next year, maybe Bynum's in that list

kntresistheheat
07-06-2008, 12:14 AM
Dwight howard without a doubt, and our possible future best Center would be Oden and Bynum?????? I see Yao retiring in about 3-5yrs for some reason really big guys like him and foreign dont last in the nba.....(Example) Manute bol, gheorghe muresan, shawn bradley.....But obviously Yao is better than all of them!


I hope you dont mean all-time????

grega1976
07-06-2008, 12:53 AM
Dwight howard without a doubt, and our possible future best Center would be Oden and Bynum?????? I see Yao retiring in about 3-5yrs for some reason really big guys like him and foreign dont last in the nba.....(Example) Manute bol, gheorghe muresan, shawn bradley.....But obviously Yao is better than all of them!


I hope you dont mean all-time????

Bradley wasn't foreign, he's mormon, but not foreign.

TMAC94
07-06-2008, 09:32 AM
yao is a better shooter, passer(assits) and i reckon he has better bball IQ.
dwight rebounds and blocks and dunks.

if anyone disagres about the shooting look at this http://www.nba.com/hotspots/



oh btw rihann has a blooddy mullet! sorry watching channel.

pimpunleashed
07-06-2008, 10:03 AM
no D.Howard is

michaellui11
07-06-2008, 10:12 AM
1=yao
2=howard

Gilbert>TheRest
07-06-2008, 10:30 AM
dwight

HouRealCoach
07-06-2008, 10:43 AM
Yao beats Dwight anyday

NoSense
07-06-2008, 11:32 AM
No he's not, actually there is not one C in the NBA that isn't the #1 IMO...I mean they all have flaws, even D How, not Shaq type yet...

wissportsfan
07-06-2008, 03:16 PM
I'd have to say Howard is better than Yao.

PackCrewBuckBad
07-06-2008, 03:33 PM
Shaq owns Yao still...

top 3

Dwight
Shaq
Yao


Next year, maybe Bynum's in that list

:pity:

JordansBulls
07-06-2008, 10:51 PM
I think Dwight is the best in the league now.

dawgsfan_45
07-06-2008, 11:07 PM
Yao is absolutely the 2nd best center in the league. Dwight is the best.

Vidball
07-06-2008, 11:10 PM
Bill Walton is considered 1 of the 50 greatest players in NBA history, he's also a hall of famer and he missed 43% of his games over his 10 yr career.

He also has an MVP to his name and a couple of rings. So? Yao hasn't even gotten out of the first round.

Afridi786
07-06-2008, 11:15 PM
Yao is better overall.

grega1976
07-06-2008, 11:29 PM
He also has an MVP to his name and a couple of rings. So? Yao hasn't even gotten out of the first round.

so how can you hold Yao's injuries against him when the Association honors one of the most if not the most injury prone player in its history.. His mvp year he only played 58 games.. and his stats suck.. if you compare stats side by side Yao's crush Walton's.. Championships don't make great players, and Walton didn't win by himself (obviously, since he was never on the court). The truth is the Rockets have never put a championship team around Yao.. all they have is McGrady, and don't get me started on what an over rated ****ty volume shooting ball hogging piece of **** he is.. IMHO alot of people have problems with Yao, or won't say he's better than Howard because he's not flashy, and he's not black..

FOBolous
07-06-2008, 11:31 PM
so how can you hold Yao's injuries against him when the Association honors one of the most if not the most injury prone player in its history.. His mvp year he only played 58 games.. and his stats suck.. if you compare stats side by side Yao's crush Walton's.. Championships don't make great players, and Walton didn't win by himself (obviously, since he was never on the court). The truth is the Rockets have never put a championship team around Yao.. all they have is McGrady, and don't get me started on what an over rated ****ty volume shooting ball hogging piece of **** he is.. IMHO alot of people have problems with Yao, or won't say he's better than Howard because he's not flashy, and he's not black..

:clap:

*Superman*
07-06-2008, 11:36 PM
What you really have to ask yourself is who you would have on your team. Dwight who can score, but is still raw, plays good D,is really athletic and can rebound, or Yao who has post moves and can rebound, and that is about it.
Also Yao is injury prone and has reached his potential and Dwight has a lot of upside.

Dwight clearly wins. And I am damn sure most of the GMs would rather have Dwight on their team.

stawka
07-06-2008, 11:39 PM
What you really have to ask yourself is who you would have on your team. Dwight who can score, but is still raw, plays good D,is really athletic and can rebound, or Yao who has post moves and can rebound, and that is about it.
Also Yao is injury prone and has reached his potential and Dwight has a lot of upside.

Dwight clearly wins. And I am damn sure most of the GMs would rather have Dwight on their team.

:clap:

*Superman*
07-06-2008, 11:41 PM
so how can you hold Yao's injuries against him when the Association honors one of the most if not the most injury prone player in its history.. His mvp year he only played 58 games.. and his stats suck.. if you compare stats side by side Yao's crush Walton's.. Championships don't make great players, and Walton didn't win by himself (obviously, since he was never on the court). The truth is the Rockets have never put a championship team around Yao.. all they have is McGrady, and don't get me started on what an over rated ****ty volume shooting ball hogging piece of **** he is.. IMHO alot of people have problems with Yao, or won't say he's better than Howard because he's not flashy, and he's not black..

Maybe if he was, he wouldn't be so damn soft.

grega1976
07-06-2008, 11:44 PM
Maybe if he was, he wouldn't be so damn soft.

I guaranty he would shoot more freethrows if he was.. Even if you think he is not as good as Howard you have to admit he's a legit superstar, yet he gets less respect from the refs than alot of rookies.. again probably because he's Chinese..

*Superman*
07-06-2008, 11:49 PM
I guaranty he would shoot more freethrows if he was.. Even if you think he is not as good as Howard you have to admit he's a legit superstar, yet he gets less respect from the refs than alot of rookies.. again probably because he's Chinese..

LOL. I have nothing against Yao and would love him on my team and I know for a fact that he is a Superstar. IMO, Dwight is just too much to pass up.

stawka
07-06-2008, 11:53 PM
I guaranty he would shoot more freethrows if he was.. Even if you think he is not as good as Howard you have to admit he's a legit superstar, yet he gets less respect from the refs than alot of rookies.. again probably because he's Chinese..

Dude I think you're bringing racism into it more then anyone else. Yao IS a Superstar and anyone would admit it. But he IS NOT Dwight Howard. Dwight is young, athletic, strong and hasn't even reached his peak. The only thing Yao gets too much of because of his race, is the All-Star voting and that's it.

Great center's have always had it tough because of their size. You cant say "Yao would shoot more free-throw's" and give random hypothetical situations, because at the end of the day, Yao/Shaq/Dwight/Amare etc. all have the ref's against them - especially when it comes to calls involving fouls.

dRa1niNg_ 3s
07-07-2008, 12:08 AM
What you really have to ask yourself is who you would have on your team. Dwight who can score, but is still raw, plays good D,is really athletic and can rebound, or Yao who has post moves and can rebound, and that is about it.
Also Yao is injury prone and has reached his potential and Dwight has a lot of upside.

Dwight clearly wins. And I am damn sure most of the GMs would rather have Dwight on their team.

That is were u are completely wrong not only is Yao more productive than Dwight, but he brings in way more money!!! Basketball is a business and the Rockets are banking because of Yao. Oh and another thing most of Orlando's offense is through the 3 pointer, they live and die by the three instead of using Dwight's weak offensive game. All he basically does is put back dunks which is impressive but he cant be a go to guy in the crunch, Orlando's go to guy in the crunch was Hedo Turkoglu LMFAO!!!

stawka
07-07-2008, 12:13 AM
And how's that funny? What part of what you just said made you LYFAO? The fact that Turkoglu is their go-to guy in the end? Is that a bad thing?

dRa1niNg_ 3s
07-07-2008, 12:23 AM
And how's that funny? What part of what you just said made you LYFAO? The fact that Turkoglu is their go-to guy in the end? Is that a bad thing?

It just proves that Yao is better if Howard was truly a better more dominant center shoudnt he be able to take over game when it mattered? Yao can take the double and triple teams and still take over game, i really dont watch the Magic play only when they play on national tv and from what i see, all they do is swing the ball around till they get a three point shot.

*Superman*
07-07-2008, 12:26 AM
That is were u are completely wrong not only is Yao more productive than Dwight, but he brings in way more money!!! Basketball is a business and the Rockets are banking because of Yao. Oh and another thing most of Orlando's offense is through the 3 pointer, they live and die by the three instead of using Dwight's weak offensive game. All he basically does is put back dunks which is impressive but he cant be a go to guy in the crunch, Orlando's go to guy in the crunch was Hedo Turkoglu LMFAO!!!

First off, this has nothing to do about money, just skill. I can already tell that you are an ignorant Rockets fan. Anyway Dwight would be getting paid more than Yao except he hasn't been in the league as long as Yao so he cannot. You can't be talking about how the team plays because this is a player to player debate.

Also if you think that Hedo is garbage, just take a look at your roster, you will find garbage everywhere. At least we have a 3rd option on offense who proved to be better than anyone thought.

By the way those are some gay *** rhymes, you should take that off.

stawka
07-07-2008, 12:29 AM
It just proves that Yao is better if Howard was truly a better more dominant center shoudnt he be able to take over game when it mattered? Yao can take the double and triple teams and still take over game, i really dont watch the Magic play only when they play on national tv and from what i see, all they do is swing the ball around till they get a three point shot.

You just proved you either don't watch much NBA, or you are extremely biased. So Dwight isn't a dominant center because he doesn't take over a game when it matters - in the dying minutes? That must mean.... Shaq is and always has been a team cancer, and is and was far from dominant. Shaq has to be TAKEN OUT of a game in the final minutes. Judging by your standards, Yao's prime?Dwight now>Shaq's prime. Good job :clap:

FOBolous
07-07-2008, 12:40 AM
First off, this has nothing to do about money, just skill. I can already tell that you are an ignorant Rockets fan. Anyway Dwight would be getting paid more than Yao except he hasn't been in the league as long as Yao so he cannot. You can't be talking about how the team plays because this is a player to player debate.

Also if you think that Hedo is garbage, just take a look at your roster, you will find garbage everywhere. At least we have a 3rd option on offense who proved to be better than anyone thought.

By the way those are some gay *** rhymes, you should take that off.

who's more ignorant? a guy who sticks up for a player who can only play on one end of the court or the guy who sticks up for a player who can play on both end of the court? and seriously...Howard supporters shouldn't be calling Yao supporters "ignorant" when one of your fellow Howard supporter open admit that he rarely...if ever...watch Yao and the Rockets play. how can you say one player is better than the other when you never watch both players play?

yall know what else is different between Yao and Howard? oppossing teams create defensive schemes just to shut Yao down...they actually try to shut Yao down. when you watch the games...you often see Yao gets double and tripled teams...and on some occasion...you see the whole team swarms him right when he catches the ball. How bout Howard? do opposing teams worry about Howard before the game? do they create defensive schemes specifically designed to shut Howard down? Do you see opposing players ready do double or triple team Howard right when he catches the ball?

and what dRa1niNg_ 3s is trying to say that if you put Hedo and Yao together...there is no doubt that the offense will start with Yao. But with Hedo and Howard...the offense starts with Hedo. I don't think he's trying to say Turkoglu is a bad player...he's just trying to say Dwight Howard is a bad player ;)

Chaudhry
07-07-2008, 12:42 AM
i think people are taking howard's potential into consideration... for a question like this you have to create a scenario such that only the now matter... ie... imagine you only have one season to win... and injuries are not a factor... in that case i think yao would be the safer bet... ofcourse if you factor in injuries and potential its dwight.... but howard doesn't even have a hook shot... atleast shaq had that... from what i've seen from howards range is less then 1 foot from the basket...

Vidball
07-07-2008, 12:44 AM
Yao averaged 1 more point a game but shot 9% less than Howard from the field...Yao has a better post game/more range, but Howard's athleticism more than makes up for that.

FOBolous
07-07-2008, 12:44 AM
i think people are taking howard's potential into consideration... for a question like this you have to create a scenario such that only the now matter... ie... imagine you only have one season to win... and injuries are not a factor... in that case i think yao would be the safer bet... ofcourse if you factor in injuries and potential its dwight.... but howard doesn't even have a hook shot... atleast shaq had that... from what i've seen from howards range is less then 1 foot from the basket...

good post...short and sweet :clap:

Lakersfan2483
07-07-2008, 12:45 AM
D. Howard gets the nod over Yao, who is a top 5 center in his own right.

FOBolous
07-07-2008, 12:46 AM
D. Howard gets the nod over Yao, who is a top 5 center in his own right.

yet Yao beats Howard everytime they play head to head. yup...Howard is definitely better than Yao :rolleyes:

Vidball
07-07-2008, 12:49 AM
Howard has played more games in the past 2 season than Yao has in the past 3--Howard's offensive numbers are on par with Yao's, but Howard has way better D. yup...Yao is better than Howard :D

Afridi786
07-07-2008, 12:51 AM
how sad is it that a center who has no moves is putting up 20+ ppg these days.

bctgg27
07-07-2008, 12:53 AM
its all dwight

*Superman*
07-07-2008, 01:01 AM
who's more ignorant? a guy who sticks up for a player who can only play on one end of the court or the guy who sticks up for a player who can play on both end of the court? and seriously...Howard supporters shouldn't be calling Yao supporters "ignorant" when one of your fellow Howard supporter open admit that he rarely...if ever...watch Yao and the Rockets play. how can you say one player is better than the other when you never watch both players play?

yall know what else is different between Yao and Howard? oppossing teams create defensive schemes just to shut Yao down...they actually try to shut Yao down. when you watch the games...you often see Yao gets double and tripled teams...and on some occasion...you see the whole team swarms him right when he catches the ball. How bout Howard? do opposing teams worry about Howard before the game? do they create defensive schemes specifically designed to shut Howard down? Do you see opposing players ready do double or triple team Howard right when he catches the ball?

and what dRa1niNg_ 3s is trying to say that if you put Hedo and Yao together...there is no doubt that the offense will start with Yao. But with Hedo and Howard...the offense starts with Hedo. I don't think he's trying to say Turkoglu is a bad player...he's just trying to say Dwight Howard is a bad player ;)

Sorry, I forgot ALL Rockets fans are ignorant. If you think that Dwight has No offensive game, your crazy and i shouldn't be talking to you. I didn't know that scoring 20 ppg meant you had no offensive game. So what if it is all dunks or put backs. That is harder than a 7"6 man hitting a shot of the glass.

And if you think that they don't try to shut down Howard, then i can already tell that you haven't seen him play. They do double and triple team Howard cause when he gets in the paint its over.

Can Yao do this? Clutch for u http://youtube.com/watch?v=T6EHymC25RM

Vidball
07-07-2008, 01:02 AM
yet Yao beats Howard everytime they play head to head. yup...Howard is definitely better than Yao :rolleyes:

They were 1-1 last season and in the first game Yao was only 7of18 from the field.

*Superman*
07-07-2008, 01:05 AM
yet Yao beats Howard everytime they play head to head. yup...Howard is definitely better than Yao :rolleyes:

Who cares? This isn't the "Is Yao better than Dwight when they play head to head" thread. This is for who is the better player.

FOBolous
07-07-2008, 01:07 AM
Can Yao do this? Clutch for u http://youtube.com/watch?v=T6EHymC25RM

oh no! someone's busting out with a youtube link!!! :speechless: time to bust out with mine: http://youtube.com/watch?v=RtRssX5PmYs&feature=related

bet Howard can't do this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=9RcXFyoDKdA or this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bVGGcrUUSJ0 or 2/3 of the things in this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=uT_8E-0HMoA

:laugh2: seriously man...youtube videos mean nothing. you having to use a youtube video to support your stance shows how weak your stance is.

*Superman*
07-07-2008, 01:07 AM
Howard has played more games in the past 2 season than Yao has in the past 3--Howard's offensive numbers are on par with Yao's, but Howard has way better D. yup...Yao is better than Howard :D

Thanks for breaking it down to them. Get it through your head Yao dick suckers.

*Superman*
07-07-2008, 01:11 AM
oh no! someone's busting out with a youtube link!!! :speechless: time to bust out with mine: http://youtube.com/watch?v=RtRssX5PmYs&feature=related

bet Howard can't do this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=9RcXFyoDKdA or this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bVGGcrUUSJ0 or 2/3 of the things in this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=uT_8E-0HMoA

:laugh2: seriously man...youtube videos mean nothing. you having to use a youtube video to support your stance shows how weak your stance is.

Its nice that you support Yao cause your both ****ing chinese MFs.

Vidball
07-07-2008, 01:12 AM
^Great, here we go...I'm going to bed.

FOBolous
07-07-2008, 01:22 AM
Sorry, I forgot ALL Rockets fans are ignorant. If you think that Dwight has No offensive game, your crazy and i shouldn't be talking to you. I didn't know that scoring 20 ppg meant you had no offensive game. So what if it is all dunks or put backs. That is harder than a 7"6 man hitting a shot of the glass.

And if you think that they don't try to shut down Howard, then i can already tell that you haven't seen him play. They do double and triple team Howard cause when he gets in the paint its over.

as for the offensive #s...there are times when #s means a lot and there are times when #s means very little. like how Zach Randolph is a 20/10 player but he's not anywhere close to being one of the top 10 big men in the NBA.

in the case of Howard's offensive #s...they mean very little cause they mostly comes from put backs and dunks...not from him being the anchor of the offense having to continuously carry his team on his back offensively and having to always fight through double teams and triple teams and against defenses specifically designed to stop him. so in essence...Yao's 22 ppg has more impact on the game than Howard's 20 ppg because Yao's 22 ppg comes from him having to carry the team...just like how i can say Hedo Turkoglu's 19 ppg has more impact than Howard's 20 ppg because Hedo Turkoglu controls much of the Magic's offense. if either Turkoglu or Yao has a bad game...their respective team's chance of winning significantly becomes less. If Howard has a bad game offensively...it's ok and the Magic still has a good chance of winning the game.

and that is never more evident in Howard's 4 pts game against Cleveland...despite the fact that Howard only scored 4 pts...Orlando still got a pretty solid win. That is also evident in Howard's 9 pts game against Portland....apparently a combo of Aldridge and Pryzbilla was too much for the great Dwight Howard to handle so he scored only 9 points. but despite only getting 9 points from Dwight Howard...the magic still got a pretty solid win beating the Blazers by more than 10 points.

you see what i mean? Howard's 20 ppg doesn't have nearly as much impact on the game as much as Yao's 22 ppg and Hedo's 19 ppg.

FOBolous
07-07-2008, 01:23 AM
Its nice that you support Yao cause your both ****ing chinese MFs.

i'm sorry the fact that i'm chinese offends you. there's nothing i can do about that fact but i promise you...despite the fact that I'm chinese...i'm actually a pretty good person. I hope one day you'll find it in your heart to accept me and my race and be able to judge me not by the color of my skin but by the contents of my character.

stawka
07-07-2008, 01:25 AM
oh no! someone's busting out with a youtube link!!! :speechless: time to bust out with mine: http://youtube.com/watch?v=RtRssX5PmYs&feature=related

bet Howard can't do this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=9RcXFyoDKdA or this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bVGGcrUUSJ0 or 2/3 of the things in this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=uT_8E-0HMoA

:laugh2: seriously man...youtube videos mean nothing. you having to use a youtube video to support your stance shows how weak your stance is.

You ran through the whole of youtube to find Yao highlights, and that's the best you could find HAHAHAHA:clap:

You found 1 thing that Yao did against Dwight. How about this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lPQa49vLJ78

And lets not forget... If you really want someone to start posting Youtube things, i'm sure there is A LOT more Dwight Howard clips worth watching then Yao ones.

I find it funny that everyone is saying Dwight any day except Rockets fans. Biased much?!

stawka
07-07-2008, 01:27 AM
And now you're saying the Magic don't need Dwight to score much to win. 22-game winning streak comes to mind when you say that.

FOBolous
07-07-2008, 01:28 AM
You ran through the whole of youtube to find Yao highlights, and that's the best you could find HAHAHAHA:clap:

You found 1 thing that Yao did against Dwight. How about this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lPQa49vLJ78

And lets not forget... If you really want someone to start posting Youtube things, i'm sure there is A LOT more Dwight Howard clips worth watching then Yao ones.

I find it funny that everyone is saying Dwight any day except Rockets fans. Biased much?!

i actually didn't try very hard to find those videos...those videos were video links on the side of the video that was originally posted by *Superman12*

and i don't think you understood the point of my post...the whole point of my post was to show how stupid it is to try to use youtube videos to support your stance and how resorting those videos shows how weak your stance is.

and if you look through the thread...not everyone who supports Yao are Rockets' fans. plus i don't even think there's 39 active Rockets fan who frequents the main NBA forum. I don't even think there's 20 active Rockets fans in the Rockets' team forum itself.

stawka
07-07-2008, 01:31 AM
I'm just going through the Rockets website to find out how many of the 22-win games were without Yao and stumbled across a couple of box scores during the win-streak.
http://www.nba.com/games/20080201/HOUIND/boxscore.html
http://www.nba.com/games/20080224/CHIHOU/boxscore.html

All i'm trying to say is, some of the "Rockets fans" arguments are weak.

Dwight has no inside game - Which is why he is averaging 20PPG on a higher FG%

The Magic team doesn't need Dwight to win - Whereas the Rockets won 10 straight without Yao, and even while Yao was playing during that winning streak, he had a few extremely poor shooting games

Third of all - race has nothing to do with it. I don't care if he's black, white, Chinese or Turkish. If he is deserving, then that's all there is to it. The only thing I DON'T like that comes with Yao's race, is the amount of All-Star votes he gets... That's all!

FOBolous
07-07-2008, 01:42 AM
I'm just going through the Rockets website to find out how many of the 22-win games were without Yao and stumbled across a couple of box scores during the win-streak.
http://www.nba.com/games/20080201/HOUIND/boxscore.html
http://www.nba.com/games/20080224/CHIHOU/boxscore.html

Yao's "bad" 17 points in the game against Indiana was saved by Landry's freak 24 points game.

Yao's bad 12 points game against the Bulls was saved by the fact that everyone else on the team happen to play good during that game. The Rockets has 7 players in double figures during that game.

but if you compare the number of games won by the Magic despite Howard's bad offensive games to the number of games the Rockets lost because of Yao's bad offensive game...you'll see the big discrepancy.

plus what are you trying to prove anyways? that i'm wrong? that Yao's offensive numbers having very little impact on the results of the game? All star players have a bad games...but sometime teams are still able to win despite the fact that their #1 scoring option had a bad game because some other role player step up and have a freak-ishly good game. like this game right here: http://www.nba.com/games/20080205/LALNJN/boxscore.html Kobe Bryant had a TERRIBLE game and only scored 6 points but the Lakers were able to win anyways despite that because of the freak 28 points scored by Derek Fisher that day. just like how Landry had a freak 24 points game against Indiana when Yao had a "bad" 17 points game.

*Superman*
07-07-2008, 01:43 AM
i'm sorry the fact that i'm chinese offends you. there's nothing i can do about that fact but i promise you...despite the fact that I'm chinese...i'm actually a pretty good person. I hope one day you'll find it in your heart to accept me and my race and be able to judge me not by the color of my skin but by the contents of my character.

Look man, I shouldn't have posted that and I realize that was messed up of me. IMO i think D-12 is better and you think Yao is better, we can leave it at that.

stawka
07-07-2008, 01:46 AM
Why are you putting " around the word bad? He did have a bad game. He scored 17 points on 4-12 shooting. That isn't bad? Especially for a Center, who has such a flawless post game lol, and it was against Foster for God's sake!

I'm not saying Yao is a bad player. I'm just saying some of the facts Rockets fans are providing work both ways. Read my above post

FOBolous
07-07-2008, 01:53 AM
All i'm trying to say is, some of the "Rockets fans" arguments are weak.

Dwight has no inside game - Which is why he is averaging 20PPG on a higher FG%



i already explained to you that sometimes #s don't tell the whole story...and Howard's 20 ppg is an example where #s don't mean much...just like how Zach Randolph is a 20/10 player but he's nowhere close to being one of the top 10 big men in the NBA.

but just in case my original post was too complicated for you to understand...let me simplify it for you. Is Hedo Turkoglu more important to Orlando's offense or is Howard more important? the answer is Hedo Turkoglu. With that in mind...who's the better offensive player? Hedo Turkoglu or Yao Ming? Who would you rather be the anchor of your offense? Hedo Turkoglu or Yao Ming?

'nuff said.


The Magic team doesn't need Dwight to win - Whereas the Rockets won 10 straight without Yao, and even while Yao was playing during that winning streak, he had a few extremely poor shooting games


The Rockets' were able to win 10 straight w/o Yao because all of the Rockets' role palyers were playing out of their mind. Rafer Alston was playing like an All-Star...so was Scola (a rookie) and Landry (also a rookie). Our role players overachieved. That brings us to another thing that differentiates Yao from Howard...the intangibles. If you follow the Rockets...you'll know that Yao was the player that sparked the 22 winning game streak and that he was the player that got our role players to play like they did...another poster from the Rockets forum can explain this better than me:


Yao turned this team around single-handedly last year. It's funny how the T-Mac fanboys forget about his horrible and selfish play before he got injured last December. He was ruining the Adelman offense with his horrible decision-making. Finally, he got injured, and the system clicked. He rode in on Yao's coattails to continue the streak, but it was YAO who started it.

stawka
07-07-2008, 01:56 AM
OK. Lets just both quit because it's obvious we're two stubborn people and will stick firmly by our beliefs. I cant be bothered continuing and getting nowhere. I'll let you battle it out with 95% of the other NBA fans who say Howard is better. Peace :)

FOBolous
07-07-2008, 01:57 AM
OK. Lets just both quit because it's obvious we're two stubborn people and will stick firmly by our beliefs. I cant be bothered continuing and getting nowhere. I'll let you battle it out with 95% of the other NBA fans who say Howard is better. Peace :)

uh huh...

before you quit though...can you respond to this part of my post:


but just in case my original post was too complicated for you to understand...let me simplify it for you. Is Hedo Turkoglu more important to Orlando's offense or is Howard more important? the answer is Hedo Turkoglu. With that in mind...who's the better offensive player? Hedo Turkoglu or Yao Ming? Who would you rather be the anchor of your offense? Hedo Turkoglu or Yao Ming?

'nuff said.

:p

*Superman*
07-07-2008, 02:04 AM
You can't compare the 2 because Yao is a C and Turk is a SF. IMO would take Hedo because he can shoot the 3 and can drive it in compared to Yao's inside game.

FOBolous
07-07-2008, 02:08 AM
You can't compare the 2 because Yao is a C and Turk is a SF. IMO would take Hedo because he can shoot the 3 and can drive it in compared to Yao's inside game.

i'm not comparing the two players...i'm comparing their impact on the game offensively and ultimately comparing Yao to Howard proving Yao's superiority over Howard. I don't know if that concept is too hard to understand or if i'm not explaining myself clear enough.

*Superman*
07-07-2008, 02:29 AM
i'm not comparing the two players...i'm comparing their impact on the game offensively and ultimately comparing Yao to Howard proving Yao's superiority over Howard. I don't know if that concept is too hard to understand or if i'm not explaining myself clear enough.

Look, Dwight is just as important to the Magic as Yao is to the Rockets. You can't say D-12 points aren't necessary because if you take that out then we lose just about every game. Look at what happened when we VS Detroit in the playoffs. They shut down Howard and we only managed to win one game.

And yes is would take Hedo for the offensive anchor because Yao doesn't shoot 3's, to make it more clearer for you.

TMAC94
07-07-2008, 02:45 AM
at the moment yao is better but in years too come dwight will be better, he'll learn a better post game and be alot better in his peak then yao is in his, but as for now yao is better

NYK All the Way
07-07-2008, 02:46 AM
D Howards a beast but yao has a much more developed post game. A healthy yao is better than a healthy dwight, so the answer is yes.

TMAC94
07-07-2008, 02:50 AM
D Howards a beast but yao has a much more developed post game. A healthy yao is better than a healthy dwight, so the answer is yes.



exactly, it dwight develops his post game he will be better than yao.

Chronz
07-07-2008, 02:57 AM
Look, Dwight is just as important to the Magic as Yao is to the Rockets. You can't say D-12 points aren't necessary because if you take that out then we lose just about every game. Look at what happened when we VS Detroit in the playoffs. They shut down Howard and we only managed to win one game.

And yes is would take Hedo for the offensive anchor because Yao doesn't shoot 3's, to make it more clearer for you.

Ima come off sounding like a dick but I mean no disrespect and Im being completely honest when I say this, you may as well create a new screen name, this post here just about eliminates any chance you had at sustaining basketball credibility. No one will take you seriously if your stance on Yao Ming vs Hedo ****ing turkoglu is towards the guy from Turkey

FOBolous
07-07-2008, 03:02 AM
D Howards a beast but yao has a much more developed post game. A healthy yao is better than a healthy dwight, so the answer is yes.

agreed...Yao is better at this point and time but who knows? 2 or 3 years down the road...when Howard develops more and improve his offensive game...this guy is going to be a absolute unstoppable monster. I see HOF potential in him.

*Superman*
07-07-2008, 03:03 AM
Ima come off sounding like a dick but I mean no disrespect and Im being completely honest when I say this, you may as well create a new screen name, this post here just about eliminates any chance you had at sustaining basketball credibility. No one will take you seriously if your stance on Yao Ming vs Hedo ****ing turkoglu is towards the guy from Turkey

I know what u are thinking about but thats not what i mean. He said who's offensive game is more important and i said Hedo cause he shoots 3's and drives it in and Yao only has the post. Thats why i said you can't compare the two on offense.
If you thought that i meant that Hedo is better than Yao, you got me totally wrong.

*Superman*
07-07-2008, 03:04 AM
agreed...Yao is better at this point and time but who knows? 2 or 3 years down the road...when Howard develops more and improve his offensive game...this guy is going to be a absolute unstoppable monster. I see HOF potential in him.

I agree that Yao's post game is polished and Dwight is still raw at the age of 22.

FOBolous
07-07-2008, 03:10 AM
I agree that Yao's post game is polished and Dwight is still raw at the age of 22.

which means...at this point and time...Yao is the best center in the NBA. You said it yourself...Yao is more polished as oppose to Howard who has yet to learn many MANY things. glad you finally join my side :D




yall like how i led *Superman12* into saying that Yao is the best center in the NBA? :p

stawka
07-07-2008, 03:13 AM
Superman12.. Just give up man. He's as stubborn as you are, and this thread will get you nowhere. Just let it go. Let the players speak for themselves come season-time.

Don't get yourself an infraction and/or ban for nothing.

Someone lock the thread up!

FOBolous
07-07-2008, 03:14 AM
Superman12.. Just give up man. He's as stubborn as you are, and this thread will get you nowhere. Just let it go. Let the players speak for themselves come season-time.

Don't get yourself an infraction and/or ban for nothing.

Someone lock the thread up!

:)

*Superman*
07-07-2008, 03:15 AM
which means...at this point and time...Yao is the best center in the NBA. You said it yourself...Yao is more polished as oppose to Howard who has yet to learn many MANY things. glad you finally join my side :D




yall like how i led *Superman12* into saying that Yao is the best center in the NBA? :p

I just said its more polished... but i still like Howard.LOL

*Superman*
07-07-2008, 03:16 AM
Superman12.. Just give up man. He's as stubborn as you are, and this thread will get you nowhere. Just let it go. Let the players speak for themselves come season-time.

Don't get yourself an infraction and/or ban for nothing.

Someone lock the thread up!:

LOL, I wish i could. I'm so addicted now to argue with him.

The Yao VS. Dwight battle will never end... Damn i need to go to sleep. Peace Out

*Superman*
07-07-2008, 03:19 AM
FOBolous who would you rather have on your team for the future? And no its not a trick question.

dRa1niNg_ 3s
07-07-2008, 06:28 PM
First off, this has nothing to do about money, just skill. I can already tell that you are an ignorant Rockets fan. Anyway Dwight would be getting paid more than Yao except he hasn't been in the league as long as Yao so he cannot. You can't be talking about how the team plays because this is a player to player debate.

Also if you think that Hedo is garbage, just take a look at your roster, you will find garbage everywhere. At least we have a 3rd option on offense who proved to be better than anyone thought.

By the way those are some gay *** rhymes, you should take that off.

Dam, kid take it easy its only a friendly argument, but the point is Yao Ming is better RIGHT NOW!! yes Dwight Howard will eventually be better than Yao but for the time being Yao owns Dwight.

dRa1niNg_ 3s
07-07-2008, 06:31 PM
You just proved you either don't watch much NBA, or you are extremely biased. So Dwight isn't a dominant center because he doesn't take over a game when it matters - in the dying minutes? That must mean.... Shaq is and always has been a team cancer, and is and was far from dominant. Shaq has to be TAKEN OUT of a game in the final minutes. Judging by your standards, Yao's prime?Dwight now>Shaq's prime. Good job :clap:

Dude trust me i know more basketball than you, and yeah in that case it doesnt work out because Shaq like Dwight Howard sucks at FT's unlike Yao who is the BEST on the team on the stripe. Your team's star player is supposed to shine bright at the end of games and Dwight seems to shy away from that unlike Yao.

stawka
07-07-2008, 08:45 PM
You didn't answer me! If i'm going by your word, Yao>Dwight now>Shaq's prime, because Shaq is useless in the dying minutes of a game. It's pretty funny considering Shaq was named one of the 50 greatest players EVER in what, his third season?

If the NBA were to make a 100 greatest players now, Yao wouldn't even be in the list. Your logic is pathetic, and the fact that you believe your own BS amazes me

chisoxfan620
07-07-2008, 09:00 PM
hell no!!

Jacob Kelley
07-07-2008, 09:23 PM
dwight howard is one dimensional. can he shoot? no can he dribble? no can he dunk? yes
like honetsly the dwight howard bandwagon is getting so big. his sumperman dunk want that great, in comparision to vince carters slam dunk competition? or jason richardson?

Vidball
07-07-2008, 09:26 PM
No way Yao is better...the guy is fragile and is soft defensively.
Would ANYBODY take Yao's 07-08 season over Dwight's? Anybody take a 1st round exit while you are sitting the pine with a stress fracture (after missing about 30 games) over Howard's 82 games played leading his team into the 2nd round? Anybody? I would take Howard's 07-08 season over Yao's 100% of the time. I would also take Howard next season over Yao. Howard grows by leaps and bounds every year, and every year its the same old story with Yao.

Vidball
07-07-2008, 09:28 PM
dwight howard is one dimensional. can he shoot? no can he dribble? no can he dunk? yes
like honetsly the dwight howard bandwagon is getting so big. his sumperman dunk want that great, in comparision to vince carters slam dunk competition? or jason richardson?

Howard led the league in dunks...should he shy away from that? Is there a higher percentage shot out there? Would Yao like to dunk on people consistently the way Dwight does? Would Yao like to shoot 9% better from the field than he does right now? Bad argument. Plus defensively Dwight>>>Yao.

NBABALLERHOLLER
07-07-2008, 09:57 PM
Dwight Howard is number one right now. He can still improve his defense. Yao is a close second. Shaq at his best was great, but come on. Heard of hack a Shaq? Even Mourning played center better in the Heat's championship year.

eagles520
07-07-2008, 09:58 PM
i think a lot of you are forgetting the teams that they play for. howard is better considering his surrounding cast. t mac is considered to be one of the best sg in the game. on the other hand you have howard is the number one option on a good but not great team

PRETTY BIRD
07-07-2008, 10:00 PM
yao is number 2...but this is why his not #1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9efsJwJxYEk

agobbi17
07-07-2008, 10:07 PM
Well once again. Yao wins every matchup against Dwight Howard.... that proves hes better right there.

goku
07-07-2008, 10:25 PM
yao is better offensively and clutch

t-mac1nukka
07-07-2008, 10:57 PM
dwight howard is one dimensional. can he shoot? no can he dribble? no can he dunk? yes
like honetsly the dwight howard bandwagon is getting so big. his sumperman dunk want that great, in comparision to vince carters slam dunk competition? or jason richardson?

superman dunk wasnt even a dunk!!!!!!!!!

t-mac1nukka
07-07-2008, 11:03 PM
Howard led the league in dunks...should he shy away from that? Is there a higher percentage shot out there? Would Yao like to dunk on people consistently the way Dwight does? Would Yao like to shoot 9% better from the field than he does right now? Bad argument. Plus, offensively Dwight>>>Yao.

hahahahahaha...this is a serious conversation; quit joking around bro.

there are about two people in the league with a worse jumper than howard. shaq and shaquille oneal. of all the things you pick out to say howard is better at its offense?? haha. like someone already said hes the number one option on their team and his ppg are very similar to yaos!! yao has a number of moves whereas howard has how many right now?? howard is a better rebounder. i dont know of much more id say hes clearly better at.

JordansBulls
07-07-2008, 11:19 PM
yao is better offensively and clutch

Where did you get that Yao was clutch from?

Care to explain?

nolin
07-07-2008, 11:38 PM
Yao is Garbage. He has trouble staying healthy and if he was so great he would get that weak rockets team out of the 1st rd of the playoffs. Next year will be the end of the TMac Yao experiment!

Chronz
07-07-2008, 11:40 PM
I know what u are thinking about but thats not what i mean. He said who's offensive game is more important and i said Hedo cause he shoots 3's and drives it in and Yao only has the post. Thats why i said you can't compare the two on offense.
If you thought that i meant that Hedo is better than Yao, you got me totally wrong.
You can compare anyone on offense its really not that difficult the trick is understanding the context of the players offense. Saying Hedo is more important on offense is better than saying hes a better player overall but the term important is subjective. I dont know what you mean by more important, if your saying Hedo is a better offensive player than Yao then its still pretty absurd.

Finding post players who can not only finish plays at an efficient rate but create them in bunches is by far the hardest role to fill. Players like Turkoglu are a dime a dozen, heck the Magic got 2 of them and if they have their way with Maggette they'll have 3.

Shooting 3's is only beneficial if you make enough of them, if your saying Hedo's 3PT shot makes him a better offensive player than Yao then I have to disagree. Yao is so much better at getting to the line than Hedo that any advantage gained from 3pters is negated.

goku
07-07-2008, 11:44 PM
Where did you get that Yao was clutch from?

Care to explain?

who can u go to in tight games that can make freethrows if fouled

grega1976
07-07-2008, 11:47 PM
Yao is Garbage. He has trouble staying healthy and if he was so great he would get that weak rockets team out of the 1st rd of the playoffs. Next year will be the end of the TMac Yao experiment!

congrats, you have no credibility now..

*Superman*
07-08-2008, 12:08 AM
dwight howard is one dimensional. can he shoot? no can he dribble? no can he dunk? yes
like honetsly the dwight howard bandwagon is getting so big. his sumperman dunk want that great, in comparision to vince carters slam dunk competition? or jason richardson?

I'm sure you were having a hell of a time when it was coming on, and by the way that has nothing to do with this.

Vidball
07-08-2008, 12:11 AM
hahahahahaha...this is a serious conversation; quit joking around bro.

there are about two people in the league with a worse jumper than howard. shaq and shaquille oneal. of all the things you pick out to say howard is better at its offense?? haha. like someone already said hes the number one option on their team and his ppg are very similar to yaos!! yao has a number of moves whereas howard has how many right now?? howard is a better rebounder. i dont know of much more id say hes clearly better at.

Lol...that is ridiculous...typo. I meant defensively. lol.
BUT...Howard is better on defense, he's better at getting to the rim, he's a better team-defender, he's better at cleaning up others trash around the rim, he's more durable, he's more athletic, etc. etc. There are clearly a lot of things Howard is better at.
Yao has a better offensive arsenal (though Howards athleticism pretty much cancels that out--thats why Howard shoots such a higher fg %), and Yao is better at the charity stripe.

Vidball
07-08-2008, 12:14 AM
Well once again. Yao wins every matchup against Dwight Howard.... that proves hes better right there.

They played twice last season...Dwight outplayed him in the first game, Yao outplayed him in the second. What are you talking about?

koreancabbage
07-08-2008, 12:20 AM
HOW IS HOWARD BETTER THAN YAO?
being more athletic makes him better?
come on!
Howard is more mobile in terms of getting to the ball but other than that, Yao's got more skills than Howard OVERALL. Yao- better passer and better shooter- isn't what this game is all about? and he rebounds! doesn't have to do THAT much on offense b/c of TMac but when he gets his touches, he's effective.

Vidball
07-08-2008, 12:20 AM
No way Yao is better...the guy is fragile and is soft defensively.
Would ANYBODY take Yao's 07-08 season over Dwight's? Anybody take a 1st round exit while you are sitting the pine with a stress fracture (after missing about 30 games) over Howard's 82 games played leading his team into the 2nd round? Anybody? I would take Howard's 07-08 season over Yao's 100% of the time. I would also take Howard next season over Yao. Howard grows by leaps and bounds every year, and every year its the same old story with Yao.

ANYBODY???

*Superman*
07-08-2008, 12:26 AM
hahahahahaha...this is a serious conversation; quit joking around bro.

there are about two people in the league with a worse jumper than howard. shaq and shaquille oneal. of all the things you pick out to say howard is better at its offense?? haha. like someone already said hes the number one option on their team and his ppg are very similar to yaos!! yao has a number of moves whereas howard has how many right now?? howard is a better rebounder. i dont know of much more id say hes clearly better at.

Come on bro, you get serious silly. He doesn't have many moves, but still he manages to get his 20ppg. And the amazing thing is that even though his offense is raw, he puts up the same numbers as Yao. So what if his points come from dunks and put backs. Is that illegal in the NBA now. So the only thing that Yao had to back him up is his offense and now thats gone. Now, Dwight is more athletic, a better defender, better rebounder, younger, non-injury prone, and is a hell of a lot stronger than Yao.
I forgot that in Yao's column you can put softer than Shawn Bradley.:speechless:

*Superman*
07-08-2008, 12:28 AM
ANYBODY???

Surely not me.

PRETTY BIRD
07-08-2008, 12:31 AM
yao is number 2...but this is why his not #1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9efsJwJxYEk

thats great!

Vidball
07-08-2008, 12:32 AM
yao is number 2...but this is why his not #1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9efsJwJxYEk

That really has me pumped up for next season!!! In 3 or 4 years Howard, Drew and Oden will be the only centers people are talking about.

*Superman*
07-08-2008, 12:32 AM
HOW IS HOWARD BETTER THAN YAO?
being more athletic makes him better?
come on!
Howard is more mobile in terms of getting to the ball but other than that, Yao's got more skills than Howard OVERALL. Yao- better passer and better shooter- isn't what this game is all about? and he rebounds! doesn't have to do THAT much on offense b/c of TMac but when he gets his touches, he's effective.

Yea haven't you seen that work in the NBA. While Yao will goes for the softest lay up ever and eventually results in getting blocked, you can see Dwight flying over everyone and dunking that **** home. You should watch more Magic games.:D

Chronz
07-08-2008, 12:40 AM
ANYBODY???
Of course you take the guy who can play in the playoffs but thats not the question being raised, its about whos the better player not whos better at staying healthy.

*Superman*
07-08-2008, 12:48 AM
Of course you take the guy who can play in the playoffs but thats not the question being raised, its about whos the better player not whos better at staying healthy.

You have to take that into consideration though because you can't say that Yao is better than Dwight when he doesn't even play. And i don't want to hear that "when healthy" BS.

*Superman*
07-08-2008, 12:52 AM
The only reason that Tmac wanted to go to the Rockets is so he could play with a big man. Say like Kobe and Shaq and how they won several rings together. How come Yao hasn't even helped Tmac get out of the 1st round? Shows his domiance.

Vidball
07-08-2008, 12:52 AM
So durability isn't figured in then? Since when? Isn't that one of the things that made Karl Malone so great??? If you created a perfect world and Yao were as durable as Howard, this might be a different conversation--but if we are gonna create a fantasy-land where Yao doesn't get injured, we might as well create a world where Howard can shoot the 3-ball too.
Who's better...the guy that averages 22ppg, 10.8rpg is better from the line, and has a better offensive arsenal but is soft and misses about 40% of the games played
OR
the guy that averages 20.7ppg, 14.2rpg, shoots 9% better from the field, is way better at getting to the rim (led the NBA in dunks by a mile), cleans up better around the rim, is a superior defender, has never missed a game in his career, and actually knows what it feels like to win a playoff series?

dre1990
07-08-2008, 12:53 AM
no and save all these ****ing rockets threads for the rockets forum were getting like 3 a day

*Superman*
07-08-2008, 12:57 AM
So durability isn't figured in then? Since when? Isn't that one of the things that made Karl Malone so great??? If you created a perfect world and Yao were as durable as Howard, this might be a different conversation--but if we are gonna create a fantasy-land where Yao doesn't get injured, we might as well create a world where Howard can shoot the 3-ball too.
Who's better...the guy that averages 22ppg, 10.8rpg is better from the line, and has a better offensive arsenal but is soft and misses about 40% of the games played
OR
the guy that averages 20.7ppg, 14.2rpg, shoots 9% better from the field, is way better at getting to the rim (led the NBA in dunks by a mile), cleans up better around the rim, is a superior defender, has never missed a game in his career, and actually knows what it feels like to win a playoff series?

Damn bro, your killing these Yao lovers.lol
The poll isn't lying either.

Chronz
07-08-2008, 01:09 AM
You have to take that into consideration though because you can't say that Yao is better than Dwight when he doesn't even play. And i don't want to hear that "when healthy" BS.

Not if the question being raised is who is the better player. When both are on the court, Yao is superior.

But hey if your proud that Dwight is only the best center in the league when Yao is on the sidelines so be it, congrats on Dwight winning by default. I have no problem saying Dwight is the healthier center, but make no mistake about it Yao will continue to be the better basketball player

tallboy12321
07-08-2008, 01:14 AM
If I wanted a center for 1 game tomorrow. Completely healthy, I would probably take Yao. Do I think he is the best? No. I think he is tied for 1st, but I think it is a tough argument to say that Howard isn't right on his tail, or past it... One player is going up, up and away, and Yao's body only has so much longer playing at such a high level.

*Superman*
07-08-2008, 01:17 AM
Not if the question being raised is who is the better player. When both are on the court, Yao is superior.

But hey if your proud that Dwight is only the best center in the league when Yao is on the sidelines so be it, congrats on Dwight winning by default. I have no problem saying Dwight is the healthier center, but make no mistake about it Yao will continue to be the better basketball player

I don't see how he will get any better when he is sitting on the bench the whole time. Maybe a better spectator than Dwight and then maybe he can become the next Steven A. Smith. or at least dream about that too.

Chronz
07-08-2008, 01:17 AM
So durability isn't figured in then? Since when?
No because you cant predict injuries, you can only judge a players impact when hes playing. If you know for a fact (You dont) that Yao gos down before the playoffs every year then yea Dwight is the better option, but if your asking whos the better basketball player its Yao.


Isn't that one of the things that made Karl Malone so great???
You know what made Malone really great, his play on the court. Put it this way, would you rather have Shaq for 70% of the games + playoffs and win a title, or Malone for all 100% and lose in the playoffs?


If you created a perfect world and Yao were as durable as Howard, this might be a different conversation--but if we are gonna create a fantasy-land where Yao doesn't get injured, we might as well create a world where Howard can shoot the 3-ball too.

LMAO, yes because Yao has NEVER shown the ability to stay healthy and Dwight has shown all the potential in the world of making a 3pt shot. Get out of here with that man.


Who's better...the guy that averages 22ppg, 10.8rpg is better from the line, and has a better offensive arsenal but is soft and misses about 40% of the games played
OR
the guy that averages 20.7ppg, 14.2rpg, shoots 9% better from the field, is way better at getting to the rim (led the NBA in dunks by a mile), cleans up better around the rim, is a superior defender, has never missed a game in his career, and actually knows what it feels like to win a playoff series?

Dwight had the better season no doubt about it. But Ill take the guy whos the better player, which is Yao.

Chronz
07-08-2008, 01:20 AM
I don't see how he will get any better when he is sitting on the bench the whole time. Maybe a better spectator than Dwight and then maybe he can become the next Steven A. Smith.
Can you tell me tomarrows lotto numbers while your at it ..................... whats that .................. no you cant? ................ thats ****ing BS man I hate you, why dont you use your predictive powers for good, like getting me a mansion, I swear Ill invite you over every day.

*Superman*
07-08-2008, 01:28 AM
He's injury prone and that doesn't go away. Thats all i am trying to say. Sure the numbers are 1, 25, 36, 38, 39 and 41.

FOBolous
07-08-2008, 01:50 AM
man i thought we settled the this debate two days ago

Chronz
07-08-2008, 02:35 AM
He's injury prone and that doesn't go away. Thats all i am trying to say. Sure the numbers are 1, 25, 36, 38, 39 and 41.
Zydrunas Ilgauskas

Look him up, it can be done and it will be done. Yao just has to change certain aspects of his training regime, management has to minimize the wear and tear on his body.

PS What numbers are these: 1, 25, 36, 38, 39 and 41

Im not getting the joke

Chronz
07-08-2008, 02:39 AM
man i thought we settled the this debate two days ago

I never even knew it was a debate, I mean I knew it was getting close to being a comparison but not one you can truly justify until Dwight starts having atleast more than one, truly great season at Yao's level. Yao's best season totally demolishes Dwights.

I dont know why you guys are so surprised by this, Yao is entering his prime while Dwight is still several years away from his. Well unless he never learns any skills, at which point he will lose plenty of his effectiveness due to lost athletic ability.

heyhey06
07-08-2008, 03:51 AM
you know why? cause he's mad at everyone else cause no1 else will let him get into the lane...he takes out his anger and frustration on the defensive end. poor guy...his aggressiveness on defense is just a mask to cover up the sad little boy deep insde who can't score no matter what he does.

Well they also say Houston is a good team so go figure.

FOBolous
07-08-2008, 04:03 AM
Well they also say Houston is a good team so go figure.

teams don't finish with a record good enough to be 4th in the ultra competitive Western Conference two years in a row by luck you know.

Crunchy12489
07-08-2008, 04:05 AM
teams don't finish with a record good enough to be 4th in the ultra competitive Western Conference two years in a row by luck you know.

Not to mention 23-0 isn't luck either.

stawka
07-08-2008, 04:11 AM
Too much arguing here man. We settled this yesterday. Everyone just shut up and that's it. Yao fans will say Yao is the best, NBA fans will say Dwight is the best - we're not gonna get anywhere. If the results on the voting wont settle it (which it should), wait for the upcoming season till they start playing again, then we'll talk!

FOBolous
07-08-2008, 04:14 AM
Too much arguing here man. We settled this yesterday. Everyone just shut up and that's it. Yao fans will say Yao is the best, NBA fans will say Dwight is the best - we're not gonna get anywhere. If the results on the voting wont settle it (which it should), wait for the upcoming season till they start playing again, then we'll talk!

no..we settled the fact that not everyone who voted for Yao in the ballot aren't all Rockets fan. There's not even 20 active Rockets fan in the main Rockets forum and even less Rockets fan active in the main NBA forum...how can there be 48 Rockets fan voting in this ballot. why do you keep insisting only Rockets fan think Yao is the best center in the NBA? :confused:

we also settled the fact that Yao is better than Dwight Howard RIGHT NOW but Yao's dominance of Howard will definetly be challenged 2 or 3 years down the road when Howard learns more and improve a little more.

freedas
07-08-2008, 05:37 AM
I think so.

no dwight howard by far

TMAC94
07-08-2008, 06:29 AM
Yao Ming is the best centre in the NBA today.

in years to come Dwight Howard will be.

Tblaze
07-08-2008, 07:01 AM
Yao: 22 ppg 10,8 rpg in 55 games
Howard: 18,9 ppg 15,8 rpg in 82 games

I'd pick Dwight you know ;)

J-Relo
07-08-2008, 07:20 AM
Yao: 22 ppg 10,8 rpg in 55 games
Howard: 18,9 ppg 15,8 rpg in 82 games

I'd pick Dwight you know ;)

where the heck you got those stats lol ;D

stats of 07/08 regular season:

YAO: 22,0 ppg on 50.7%, 10,8 rpg, 2.3 ast, 0,4 stl and 2 blk in 55 games
Howard: 20,7 ppg on 59.9%, 14,2 rpg, 1.3 ast, 0,9 stl and 2.2 blk in 82 games.

Yao isn't the best Center. Next year - maybe, but not now...

Crunchy12489
07-08-2008, 07:34 AM
where the heck you got those stats lol ;D

stats of 07/08 regular season:

YAO: 22,0 ppg on 50.7%, 10,8 rpg, 2.3 ast, 0,4 stl and 2 blk in 55 games
Howard: 20,7 ppg on 59.9%, 14,2 rpg, 1.3 ast, 0,9 stl and 2.2 blk in 82 games.

Yao isn't the best Center. Next year - maybe, but not now...

Oooooooooo.

:rimshot:

Well, sometimes the stats kind of mislead you.

Even though Dwight has more points this season, Yao can score better than Dwight.

Yao can A) Shoot a jumper, B) Dunk, C) Lay up, D) Hookshot

Whereas Dwight usually just gets set up very nicely by a point guard for him to just either dunk or lay it up. Dwight has no jumper what so ever.

I saw Dwight in the playoffs and he was terrible. The pistons put Maxiell (undersized PF) against him... Dwight was having an offensive breakdown... Maxiell was blocking him, making him force dumb shots, and he wasn't giving the 7 footer any space to work with... Yao would draw a dozen fouls on Maxiell, or he would just simply outscore Maxiell...

But as far as consistency goes, Dwight has that on lock.

TMAC94
07-08-2008, 08:10 AM
Oooooooooo.

:rimshot:

Well, sometimes the stats kind of mislead you.

Even though Dwight has more points this season, Yao can score better than Dwight.

Yao can A) Shoot a jumper, B) Dunk, C) Lay up, D) Hookshot

Whereas Dwight usually just gets set up very nicely by a point guard for him to just either dunk or lay it up. Dwight has no jumper what so ever.

I saw Dwight in the playoffs and he was terrible. The pistons put Maxiell (undersized PF) against him... Dwight was having an offensive breakdown... Maxiell was blocking him, making him force dumb shots, and he wasn't giving the 7 footer any space to work with... Yao would draw a dozen fouls on Maxiell, or he would just simply outscore Maxiell...

But as far as consistency goes, Dwight has that on lock.


exactly.

Tblaze
07-08-2008, 09:16 AM
where the heck you got those stats lol ;D

stats of 07/08 regular season:

YAO: 22,0 ppg on 50.7%, 10,8 rpg, 2.3 ast, 0,4 stl and 2 blk in 55 games
Howard: 20,7 ppg on 59.9%, 14,2 rpg, 1.3 ast, 0,9 stl and 2.2 blk in 82 games.

Yao isn't the best Center. Next year - maybe, but not now...

Ooooh I accidentally picked Howard's playoff stats of this year :$

Vidball
07-08-2008, 11:04 AM
Dwight averages just as many points, is a better defender, is more athletic, more durable, a better finisher, etc. etc. etc.

Dwight had a better season last year and he'll have a better season next year. Does that mean he's better??? Only if you're sane.

End of story.

Crunchy12489
07-08-2008, 11:10 AM
Dwight averages just as many points, is a better defender, is more athletic, more durable, a better finisher, etc. etc. etc.

Dwight had a better season last year and he'll have a better season next year. Does that mean he's better??? Only if you're sane.

End of story.

All I said was he kept it more consistent than Yao. Not to mention he had ample time to keep it consistent. Yao got injured so he didn't really have that chance to boost his stats.

Stop getting all *****y and getting into drama.

Good grief.

Yeah Dwight had a better season.

But I would take Yao over Dwight any day.

Dwight wasn't finishing that strong against the Pistons, let me tell you... I was laughing when I saw Jason Maxiell nearly man-handling his ***...

I love Dwight, but what the hell! JASON MAXIELL? He's so undersized.

Detroit for you.

Vidball
07-08-2008, 11:13 AM
^^Lets compare him to Yao in the playoffs...oh wait :D
btw, Yao averaged 16.5 ppg on 38% shooting from the field against DET (with only 9 boards a game).
Howard averaged 15.2 ppg on 51% shooting with 13.4 rpg against DET in the playoffs.
Which sounds better to you? The DET comparison is a bad one to bring up for all Yao-lovers.

FOBolous
07-08-2008, 11:33 AM
Dwight averages just as many points, is a better defender, is more athletic, more durable, a better finisher, etc. etc. etc.

Dwight had a better season last year and he'll have a better season next year. Does that mean he's better??? Only if you're sane.

End of story.

there are times when #s means a lot and there are times when #s means very little. like how Zach Randolph is a 20/10 player but he's not anywhere close to being one of the top 10 big men in the NBA.

in the case of Howard's offensive #s...they mean very little cause they mostly comes from put backs and dunks...not from him being the anchor of the offense having to continuously carry his team on his back offensively and having to always fight through double teams and triple teams and against defenses specifically designed to stop him. so in essence...Yao's 22 ppg has more impact on the game than Howard's 20 ppg because Yao's 22 ppg comes from him having to carry the team...just like how i can say Hedo Turkoglu's 19 ppg has more impact than Howard's 20 ppg because Hedo Turkoglu controls much of the Magic's offense. if either Turkoglu or Yao has a bad game...their respective team's chance of winning significantly becomes less. If Howard has a bad game offensively...it's ok and the Magic still has a good chance of winning the game.

and that is never more evident in Howard's 4 pts game against Cleveland...despite the fact that Howard only scored 4 pts...Orlando still got a pretty solid win. That is also evident in Howard's 9 pts game against Portland....apparently a combo of Aldridge and Pryzbilla was too much for the great Dwight Howard to handle so he scored only 9 points. but despite only getting 9 points from Dwight Howard...the magic still got a pretty solid win beating the Blazers by more than 10 points.

you see what i mean? Howard's 20 ppg doesn't have nearly as much impact on the game as much as Yao's 22 ppg and Hedo's 19 ppg.

so basically...to simplify everything...Is Hedo Turkoglu more important to Orlando's offense or is Howard more important? the answer is Hedo Turkoglu. With that in mind...who's the better offensive player? Hedo Turkoglu or Yao Ming? Who would you rather be the anchor of your offense? Hedo Turkoglu or Yao Ming?

'nuff said.

Crunchy12489
07-08-2008, 11:40 AM
^^Lets compare him to Yao in the playoffs...oh wait :D
btw, Yao averaged 16.5 ppg on 38% shooting from the field against DET (with only 9 boards a game).
Howard averaged 15.2 ppg on 51% shooting with 13.4 rpg against DET in the playoffs.
Which sounds better to you? The DET comparison is a bad one to bring up for all Yao-lovers.

So what? He had a bad year against them. Can't win em all.

Check out last years stats against the Pistons. (The reason I brought up the past was to show you that Detroit doesn't do that well trying to contain Yao Ming, although they did a nice job this year).. You said it as if Detroit shuts Yao Ming down every time... It's basically the same roster with the addition of Theo Ratliff (a great defender)...

30 Pts, 12 Rebs, and 49% against Detroit last year.

He just didn't keep it consistent.

Dwights stats last year against Detroit.

17.3 Pts, 11 rebs, and 47%.

frizbo72
07-08-2008, 11:58 AM
Dwight H. is the best young center in the league but if im not mistaken Shaq has yet to retire and he owns Yao. He is the best center in the league and it's not even worth the arguement to put Yao in the same sentence as Shaq.

Vidball
07-08-2008, 01:24 PM
First off...the argument that Hedo is the center of the Magics offense is kinda funny--Hedo is a first option BECAUSE of Howard...Howard opens up the game for him by keeping the defense honest. Also, the first option on a team should average quite a few more points than the second option...Yao is the first option and only averages one more point than Howard on much worse shooting. #'s don't mean everything though.

Lets look at the whole package...Howard was named as the center for the All-NBA first team. Yao didn't even make the 2nd team.

'nuff said

Tblaze
07-08-2008, 01:28 PM
First off...the argument that Hedo is the center of the Magics offense is kinda funny--Hedo is a first option BECAUSE of Howard...Howard opens up the game for him by keeping the defense honest. Also, the first option on a team should average quite a few more points than the second option...Yao is the first option and only averages one more point than Howard on much worse shooting. #'s don't mean everything though.

Lets look at the whole package...Howard was named as the center for the All-NBA first team. Yao didn't even make the 2nd team.

'nuff said

:clap: exactly, also nearly all people I see defending yao are Rockets-fans... what a coincidence :rolleyes:

FOBolous
07-08-2008, 01:44 PM
First off...the argument that Hedo is the center of the Magics offense is kinda funny--Hedo is a first option BECAUSE of Howard...Howard opens up the game for him by keeping the defense honest.

i think it's the other way around...if it wasn't for Hedo opening up the game for Howard...Howard won't be able to average the amount of points he averages. C'mon man...you can't look me straight in the eye and tell me that Howard has a post game...and how can a guy with no post game open up the game for everyone else? :confused: that doesn't even make sense.

hey here's something for you to think about...if Hedo and Yao were on the same team...who do you think would be the first option? who do you think would be the anchor of the offense? Yao right? why? but look at Hedo and Dwight Howard? who's the first option? who's the anchor of the offense? Hedo :pity:

on offense:

Yao > Hedo > Dwight Howard



Also, the first option on a team should average quite a few more points than the second option...

Hedo averages one less point than Howard and he's the first option in Orlando. your point? and the fact that Yao is the first option and Howard isn't tells you something doesn't it?



Yao is the first option and only averages one more point than Howard on much worse shooting. #'s don't mean everything though

Yao initiates the offense...does Howard? no. Yao has to create for himself..does Howard? no. Yao has fight through defense specifically designed to stop him...does Howard? no. I don't even think many team even worry about Howard enough to bother to spent time to create a defensive scheme just for him. Yao has to fight through constant double teams and triple teams right when he catches the ball as he tries to create for himself or his teammates...does Howard? no. Howard waits under the goal ready to grab a miss shot missed by one of Orlando's many jump shooters. That's also why Howard shoots a higher percentages...cause most of his points come from put backs and dunks off of misses by Orlando's jump shooters while Yao has to work the ball to create for himself or his teammates.

like i said man...#s don't tell the whole story.


:clap: exactly, also nearly all people I see defending yao are Rockets-fans... what a coincidence :rolleyes:

i said this a million times before and i say it again...there isn't even 20 active Rockets fan in the man Rockets forum...and of those 20 rockets fans...even less participates in the main NBA forum. If only Rockets fan supports Yao...where did the other 2/3 of the votes come from?

IndiansFan337
07-08-2008, 01:54 PM
so basically...to simplify everything...Is Hedo Turkoglu more important to Orlando's offense or is Howard more important? the answer is Hedo Turkoglu. With that in mind...who's the better offensive player? Hedo Turkoglu or Yao Ming? Who would you rather be the anchor of your offense? Hedo Turkoglu or Yao Ming?

Well, we aren't debating which player is more important to his team's offense. We are debating who is the best C. And which one you'd rather have.

Howard is the better all around player, more athletic, better defensively, younger, and does not have the recent string of injuries affecting his body. So I would go with him in a landslide.

JordansBulls
07-08-2008, 01:58 PM
on offense:

Yao > Hedo > Dwight Howard




Yao = 22.0 ppg, 2.3 apg
Overall produces 26.6 ppg
ORTG = 112
TS% = 58.7%
PER = 22.5


Hedo = 19.5 ppg, 5 apg
Overall produces 29.5 ppg
ORTG = 111
TS% = 57.6%
PER = 17.8


Dwight = 20.7 ppg, 1.3 apg
Overall produces 23.3 ppg
ORTG = 113
TS% = 61.9%
PER = 22.9


Remember offense is not just scoring it consists of assists and efficiency as well.

*Superman*
07-08-2008, 02:15 PM
I thought we settled this **** already. They are both hell of players. IMO and about 114 others, Dwight is the best. And about 48 think that Yao is. Just leave it at that........ Dwight is the best.

*Superman*
07-08-2008, 02:19 PM
First off...the argument that Hedo is the center of the Magics offense is kinda funny--Hedo is a first option BECAUSE of Howard...Howard opens up the game for him by keeping the defense honest. Also, the first option on a team should average quite a few more points than the second option...Yao is the first option and only averages one more point than Howard on much worse shooting. #'s don't mean everything though.

Lets look at the whole package...Howard was named as the center for the All-NBA first team. Yao didn't even make the 2nd team.

'nuff said

Good Job, I was getting ready to see if Yao made the All-NBA team cause D-12 did.
Just another reason why D-12 is better.

Vidball
07-08-2008, 02:27 PM
Aren't put-backs and dunks the most efficient way to score??? Is there a better way? How is that a downfall? Shaq got 3 rings leading the league in Dunks as a Laker. Imagine how good the Rockets would be if DHoward were the one under the rim cleaning up all of TMacs jumpers. Houstons offense looked almost as good without Yao...Howard would be an even bigger beast with TMac playing alongside him and this poll would be even more lopsided (if thats possible).