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BallerzDream
07-03-2008, 01:20 AM
From your standpoint, who is more important to this team?

Crunchy12489
07-03-2008, 01:24 AM
This is probably the hardest question I've been asked all day.

Yao can get you a triple double, whereas McGrady usually can get a double double.

Triple Double > Double Double.

Yao. He's the focus of the franchise anyway.

SC1211
07-03-2008, 01:29 AM
Yao, 100%, hands down.

BallerzDream
07-03-2008, 01:30 AM
This is probably the hardest question I've been asked all day.

Yao can get you a triple double, whereas McGrady usually can get a double double.

Triple Double > Double Double.

Yao. He's the focus of the franchise anyway.


According to my research, Yao has never achieved a triple double. That reverses your answer.

Ballah0liC1
07-03-2008, 02:02 AM
yao triple double :clap:, for tmac what do u call 10 pts 10 rebs and 10 ast I think thats a triple double which tmac can get

OUfan4life15
07-03-2008, 03:06 AM
Tmac hasn't put up alot of triple doubles, but he's has quite a few games where he's been at 20pts 10asst and like 9 reb, and Yao has had how many? None? I think their both equally as important though, they aren't going to anything with just one, it's gonna take both of them.

Chronz
07-03-2008, 05:00 AM
This thread has gotten dumb, what do triple doubles and double doubles have anything to do with this. And seriously isnt this a question like 4 years old?

Crunchy12489
07-03-2008, 05:02 AM
According to my research, Yao has never achieved a triple double. That reverses your answer.

Did I say he got one? I said he COULD.

But he could easily get it... I mean damn he has T-Mac on his team..

What's 10 points and 10 boards to Yao? A breeze.

Both could get triple doubles, but because of Yao's height, shot, rebounding, and blocking, he gets the favor. I mean a guy who put Shaq to sleep is considered a beast in my book.

t-mac1nukka
07-03-2008, 02:41 PM
hahahahahahahahaha yao a triple double?!?! how can you say he could get a triple double when hes never had one? tmac has gotten em, though not very often, its still more than yao ever has. so you sir are 100% wrong!!!

tmacs 1 triple double with the rockets > yaos 0 triple doubles.

Jpripper88
07-03-2008, 03:04 PM
Did I say he got one? I said he COULD.

But he could easily get it... I mean damn he has T-Mac on his team..

What's 10 points and 10 boards to Yao? A breeze.

Both could get triple doubles, but because of Yao's height, shot, rebounding, and blocking, he gets the favor. I mean a guy who put Shaq to sleep is considered a beast in my book.

1997? 1996?

JordansBulls
07-03-2008, 04:08 PM
Yao, you need a big man that can score and rebound in the post.

mightybosstone
07-03-2008, 04:17 PM
This thread has gotten dumb, what do triple doubles and double doubles have anything to do with this. And seriously isnt this a question like 4 years old?

Haha.... I was about to say the same thing. I actually think this is a legitimate question but what the **** do triple doubles have to do with it?

I actually think they are on par with one another and I don't value one over the other, but if I did have to chose one, I'd probably go with McGrady because of his ability to distribute the ball and score at will. Also, Yao's injuries the last 3 seasons have kind of put him on my **** list right now...

Jay22Redd
07-03-2008, 04:59 PM
Id have to say T-Mac, he's the one that is leading the team

tmacsc2
07-03-2008, 05:58 PM
Yao, you need a big man that can score and rebound in the post.

No way yao could not have carried this team without T-mac in fact i think the rockets are well below .500 win percentage when playing without T-mac.....and well above .500 without yao.....T-mac knows how to get you into the playoffs and yao doesnt know how to yet.

TMAC111
07-03-2008, 06:15 PM
ok so i love Yao and TMAC but here are some numbers for yal Yao in 06-07 season played 48 games mcgrady 71, there record was 51-33 with mcgrady in the linup not bad but here in season 05-06 mcgrady played 47 and Yao 57 rockets record was 34-48 oa playing more games not many but enough and this year the 22 game win streak Yao played for only what 10 of those games so i guess would be MCGRADY

Rox07
07-03-2008, 06:43 PM
No way yao could not have carried this team without T-mac in fact i think the rockets are well below .500 win percentage when playing without T-mac.....and well above .500 without yao.....T-mac knows how to get you into the playoffs and yao doesnt know how to yet.

Its very hard to compare two different players that play different positions. Tmac is a sg who handles the ball and can take it in at times. For yao he doesn't have really man options, just post up or shoot.

BallerzDream
07-03-2008, 07:37 PM
I've made this thread to disprove the reality that our fans mirror. If a person is in more favor of Yao, by default his answer would be Ming. However, the numbers and facts prove the following; there is more success with McGrady in the lineup rather than Ming.

grega1976
07-03-2008, 08:26 PM
I've made this thread to disprove the reality that our fans mirror. If a person is in more favor of Yao, by default his answer would be Ming. However, the numbers and facts prove the following; there is more success with McGrady in the lineup rather than Ming.

what you fail to realize is there are 5-10 people who could step in and do what TMac does.. there is only 1 other C in the league who compares to Yao (Dwight Howard) and Yao usually dominates him..

DontNOMuch
07-03-2008, 08:33 PM
I'm sure if we had a good backup for Mcgrady, we wouldn't do as bad when he was out. Like last season, we did much better when Mcgrady was out in comparison to previous season, because he had Bonzi.

BallerzDream
07-03-2008, 09:55 PM
what you fail to realize is there are 5-10 people who could step in and do what TMac does.. there is only 1 other C in the league who compares to Yao (Dwight Howard) and Yao usually dominates him..

What you "failed to realize" is that your comment has nothing to do with my question to this topic; "Who is more valuable to our team". I don't think being the best Center in the league intergrates with my post.

BallerzDream
07-03-2008, 09:58 PM
I'm sure if we had a good backup for Mcgrady, we wouldn't do as bad when he was out. Like last season, we did much better when Mcgrady was out in comparison to previous season, because he had Bonzi.

Oh great! A rocket launched comment against yourself. Would you mind telling me to who was Yao's backup when he was out of the lineup? When you get the answer, somehow associate it with what you stated earlier.

FOBolous
07-03-2008, 10:00 PM
this is a stupid thread. Obviously this thread is created by disgruntled Tmac fan boys who are mad at the fact that the majority of the world thinks Yao is more important to the team than Tmac. I'm sorry guys...no matter how much threads you make to express your man crush on Tmac...no matter how much posts you make expressing you love Tmac...you'll never change the fact that the 99% of the world will choose Yao over Tmac. The only people that would choose Tmac over Yao is well...you guys...the fan boys. Hey...truths hurt.'



and i love how you fan boys try to say Yao can't carry the team when he's the one that led the Rockets out of its losing way last year after Tmac got injured...for all the love Tmac get for being a "good distributer" i low how he couldn't get our role players involved like Yao did.

BallerzDream
07-03-2008, 10:13 PM
this is a stupid thread. Obviously this thread is created by disgruntled Tmac fan boys who are mad at the fact that the majority of the world thinks Yao is more important to the team than Tmac. I'm sorry guys...no matter how much threads you make to express your man crush on Tmac...no matter how much posts you make expressing you love Tmac...you'll never change the fact that the 99% of the world will choose Yao over Tmac. The only people that would choose Tmac over Yao is well...you guys...the fan boys. Hey...truths hurt.'



and i love how you fan boys try to say Yao can't carry the team when he's the one that led the Rockets out of its losing way last year after Tmac got injured...for all the love Tmac get for being a "good distributer" i low how he couldn't get our role players involved like Yao did.

You are very much right about one thing; truth hurts. I have based my statements with nothing but truth.

99% huh? Where are you geting these numbers. Too much confidence is lethal.

t-mac1nukka
07-03-2008, 10:28 PM
i guess you guys are right...id much rather have yao and his losing record without tmac than tmac with his winning record without yao. FAB you call us fan boys because we pick tmac over yao. we can just as easily call you a yao fan boy.

on another note...im all for having both of them as being equally important for future success. 3 straight years of injuries...surely odds are on our side that they dont get hurt again right?!? i sure hope so.

i cant wait for the day where we can stop having these yao/tmac debates. i understand forums are for debating and what not...but some of these topics are getting beat to death.

FOBolous
07-03-2008, 10:28 PM
You are very much right about one thing; truth hurts. I have based my statements with nothing but truth.

99% huh? Where are you geting these numbers. Too much confidence is lethal.

uh huh


i guess you guys are right...id much rather have yao and his losing record without tmac than tmac with his winning record without yao. FAB you call us fan boys because we pick tmac over yao. we can just as easily call you a yao fan boy.

on another note...im all for having both of them as being equally important for future success. 3 straight years of injuries...surely odds are on our side that they dont get hurt again right?!? i sure hope so.

i cant wait for the day where we can stop having these yao/tmac debates. i understand forums are for debating and what not...but some of these topics are getting beat to death.

no...I'm a Rockets fan who realize the fact that Tmac is not longer the player he once was and he'll never be that player again. and because i'm a rockets fan, i want whatever is best for the Rockets...that's why I'm advocating the trading of Tmac while he still has values before it becomes obvious that he's on the decline.

DontNOMuch
07-03-2008, 11:05 PM
Oh great! A rocket launched comment against yourself. Would you mind telling me to who was Yao's backup when he was out of the lineup? When you get the answer, somehow associate it with what you stated earlier.

When Yao was out the past couple of seasons, Mutombo and Howard were stepping up. Look at their stats you will realize that. This season, it was Scola/Landry stepping up. When Mcgrady was out this season, Head and Bonzi were stepping up, perhaps Rafer as well, while the past couple of seasons there was no one.

grega1976
07-03-2008, 11:25 PM
What you "failed to realize" is that your comment has nothing to do with my question to this topic; "Who is more valuable to our team". I don't think being the best Center in the league intergrates with my post.

ok at first I wasn't going to comment on this since I figured you would be intelligent enough to understand that by me saying that TMac was replaceable, and Yao wasn't that I obviously felt Yao was more valuable. However, since my comment was obviously a little over your head I'll just come right out and say it so that we can avoid further confusion.. YAO IS MORE VALUABLE TO THIS TEAM THAN TMAC.. Was that simple enough for you?

t-mac1nukka
07-04-2008, 12:38 AM
how can you say yao is more important though??? nothing has happened since tmac has been here to prove that?

saying that the reason we do better with yao out than tmac out is because others stepped up when yao went out and not when tmac did only further proves that tmac is more valuable. if the team cant step up with tmac proves tmac is valuable.

your arguments are only going against your point.

FOBolous
07-04-2008, 01:15 AM
how can you say yao is more important though??? nothing has happened since tmac has been here to prove that?

saying that the reason we do better with yao out than tmac out is because others stepped up when yao went out and not when tmac did only further proves that tmac is more valuable. if the team cant step up with tmac proves tmac is valuable.

your arguments are only going against your point.

yes. you're right. Tmac is more important. Your lover is more important. He's the best player in the NBA. we all acknowledge the fact that Tmac is more important. we all realize the errors of our ways. how stupid of us to think Tmac isn't the best player in the NBA. are you fan boys happy now?

you know who yall fan boys reminds me of? the guy who started this thread: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239302 i'm glad most of yall stay in the Rockets forum...i don't want yall to go to the NBA forum and embarrass yourselves like Alston2Tmac2Yao's did.

Chronz
07-04-2008, 03:46 AM
His name is KTY but I thought he was defending Yao in that thread, so why do you think he looked stupid?

TMAC111
07-04-2008, 04:06 AM
okay here we go TMAC can get something done with out Yao but Yao cant get anything done with out Tmac we already know what happend with both of them 06-07 playoffs so we really cant say who is better then to go buy the numbers and i have posted them in a previous post so still Tmac is the better player right now

FOBolous
07-04-2008, 05:26 AM
His name is KTY but I thought he was defending Yao in that thread, so why do you think he looked stupid?

I know he was defending Yao but the way he was defending Yao was stupid...all he argument was "yao is great and you're stupid to think otherwise" beyond that...he has nothing. He didn't really have any substance beyond that. That's what a lot of Tmac supporters in the Rockets forum reminds me of. They don't really have any good substance to back up their claims...like the guy above me. Read his post than look me straight into me eyes (figuratively speaking) and tell me he knows what he's talking about. C'mon...Yao can't lead the teams to wins? Our winning streak started with Yao leading the team! we had a big debate in forum about whether Tmac should come back from injury and take over the team again or play as part of the team. Tmac is better "right now?" By "right now" is he implying Yao still has a lot to learn? ummm...ok? and even if that's true...how is Tmac better than Yao "right now" when Yao is out leading scorer? :confused: you see what i mean? i know i'm a little offensive in my responses and that's because i'm annoyed at the stupidity of a lot of the Tmac supporters in the forum.

BallerzDream
07-04-2008, 11:26 AM
I know he was defending Yao but the way he was defending Yao was stupid...all he argument was "yao is great and you're stupid to think otherwise" beyond that...he has nothing. He didn't really have any substance beyond that. That's what a lot of Tmac supporters in the Rockets forum reminds me of. They don't really have any good substance to back up their claims...like the guy above me. Read his post than look me straight into me eyes (figuratively speaking) and tell me he knows what he's talking about. C'mon...Yao can't lead the teams to wins? Our winning streak started with Yao leading the team! we had a big debate in forum about whether Tmac should come back from injury and take over the team again or play as part of the team. Tmac is better "right now?" By "right now" is he implying Yao still has a lot to learn? ummm...ok? and even if that's true...how is Tmac better than Yao "right now" when Yao is out leading scorer? :confused: you see what i mean? i know i'm a little offensive in my responses and that's because i'm annoyed at the stupidity of a lot of the Tmac supporters in the forum.

Oh please. Just study your own comments, because I think your reflections and criticism comes from your own writing.

mightybosstone
07-04-2008, 11:35 AM
I know he was defending Yao but the way he was defending Yao was stupid...all he argument was "yao is great and you're stupid to think otherwise" beyond that...he has nothing. He didn't really have any substance beyond that. That's what a lot of Tmac supporters in the Rockets forum reminds me of. They don't really have any good substance to back up their claims...like the guy above me. Read his post than look me straight into me eyes (figuratively speaking) and tell me he knows what he's talking about. C'mon...Yao can't lead the teams to wins? Our winning streak started with Yao leading the team! we had a big debate in forum about whether Tmac should come back from injury and take over the team again or play as part of the team. Tmac is better "right now?" By "right now" is he implying Yao still has a lot to learn? ummm...ok? and even if that's true...how is Tmac better than Yao "right now" when Yao is out leading scorer? :confused: you see what i mean? i know i'm a little offensive in my responses and that's because i'm annoyed at the stupidity of a lot of the Tmac supporters in the forum.

I wouldn't necessarily call myself a T-Mac "supporter". I've bashed him as much as I've praised him, and I've considered trades for him as much as I've turned them down. BUT, I think (unless you're looking from a financial standpoint) that T-Mac has proven time and time again that he's more valuable to this team. I'm not gonna throw out the "record without Yao vs. the record without T-Mac" argument, because we all know those stats.

Consider that, while Yao has beaten Tracy in scoring over the last two years, the two of them score around the same number of PPG. Yao is better at free throws and FG% (which is a given as a post player). But Tracy hits the big shots at the end of big games, can take over and score at will, and leads the team in assists as a 2 guard. It's an even matchup... That's the problem with comparing big men to wing men, you can't access it fairly.

BUT, what you can access is how successful the team is when one of them isn't on the court. Yao has missed a depressingly high 86 games over the last 3 seasons. :speechless: T-Mac has missed his fair share, but never really enough to cause any real damage to the team. When Yao was out, we've been able to fill his position by splitting time between Deke and going small ball, and we've gotten similar results than we get by playing with him. You could argue that its because the Rockets have no real backup for Tracy, but here's the killer question: is it that the Rockets are clueless and just haven't signed a backup, or is it that he's so good at what he does and he logs so many minutes per game (more than Yao) that they have never felt like they needed one and have approached other areas of need first?

To me... thats the sign of an impact player, when the guy logs so many minutes and makes such an impact on a team, that when he's out there's such a gaping hole that its impossible to fill.

SC1211
07-04-2008, 01:08 PM
Yao is more important. Stop looking at the past 3 years, look at LAST YEAR, under ADELMAN's new system, and with our new roster. Yao turned this team around single-handedly last year. It's funny how the T-Mac fanboys forget about his horrible and selfish play before he got injured last December. He was ruining the Adelman offense with his horrible decision-making. Finally, he got injured, and the system clicked. He rode in on Yao's coattails to continue the streak, but it was YAO who started it.

So sure, the so called "numbers" seem to be on your side, but what you fail to examine is the circumstances. Under Van Gundy, McGrady was the main distributor and ball-handler, and his back-up was Luther Head. Now, he plays off the ball, and he had a much better back-up. Yao has always had adequate back-ups. THAT is why the numbers point that way.

BallerzDream
07-04-2008, 01:26 PM
Yao is more important. Stop looking at the past 3 years, look at LAST YEAR, under ADELMAN's new system, and with our new roster. Yao turned this team around single-handedly last year. It's funny how the T-Mac fanboys forget about his horrible and selfish play before he got injured last December. He was ruining the Adelman offense with his horrible decision-making. Finally, he got injured, and the system clicked. He rode in on Yao's coattails to continue the streak, but it was YAO who started it.

So sure, the so called "numbers" seem to be on your side, but what you fail to examine is the circumstances. Under Van Gundy, McGrady was the main distributor and ball-handler, and his back-up was Luther Head. Now, he plays off the ball, and he had a much better back-up. Yao has always had adequate back-ups. THAT is why the numbers point that way.

What are you serious? You are way above yourself buddy. Abs. nothing in your post is legit. Once again, you are covering yourself with your own BIAS.

BallerzDream
07-04-2008, 01:27 PM
I wouldn't necessarily call myself a T-Mac "supporter". I've bashed him as much as I've praised him, and I've considered trades for him as much as I've turned them down. BUT, I think (unless you're looking from a financial standpoint) that T-Mac has proven time and time again that he's more valuable to this team. I'm not gonna throw out the "record without Yao vs. the record without T-Mac" argument, because we all know those stats.

Consider that, while Yao has beaten Tracy in scoring over the last two years, the two of them score around the same number of PPG. Yao is better at free throws and FG% (which is a given as a post player). But Tracy hits the big shots at the end of big games, can take over and score at will, and leads the team in assists as a 2 guard. It's an even matchup... That's the problem with comparing big men to wing men, you can't access it fairly.

BUT, what you can access is how successful the team is when one of them isn't on the court. Yao has missed a depressingly high 86 games over the last 3 seasons. :speechless: T-Mac has missed his fair share, but never really enough to cause any real damage to the team. When Yao was out, we've been able to fill his position by splitting time between Deke and going small ball, and we've gotten similar results than we get by playing with him. You could argue that its because the Rockets have no real backup for Tracy, but here's the killer question: is it that the Rockets are clueless and just haven't signed a backup, or is it that he's so good at what he does and he logs so many minutes per game (more than Yao) that they have never felt like they needed one and have approached other areas of need first?

To me... thats the sign of an impact player, when the guy logs so many minutes and makes such an impact on a team, that when he's out there's such a gaping hole that its impossible to fill.


Great post. A mere translation of what I stated earlier.

{}
07-04-2008, 03:07 PM
I think some here confuse Memac's alleged value to the team for what is nothing more than having the most dominate role on the team, which I might add, is to the detriment of team success. The ceiling has and always will be 50 wins and a 1st round KO within Tmac dominated system. So unless one is satisified with meaningless regular season success, I fail to see how anyone could mistake Tmac as being more important than Yao.

I can think of a several players that can provide the scoring and playmaking of MeMac: Lebron, Paul Pierce, Joe Johnson, Ginobili, Redd, Kobe...just to name a few.

I can think of a dozen players who do a better job scoring and do so more efficiently without slowing down the offense and igniting the oppositions fast break opportunities.

Who compares with Yao Ming? Duncan had similar post dominace about 6 years ago back when he still had some athleticism and mobility, but he struggles now and has to rely more now on Ginobili and Parker. There simply isn't another post player in the league with Yao's dominance.

D.Howard? Give me a break. The guy is Kevin Willis v2.0. He couldn't score in the post to save his life. He has difficulty defending dominate post scorers. Yao lights him up every time they match up. D.Howard is simply incapable of leading a team to a championship. At best he'll be a great complimentary type player to a superstar. Kinda what Kobe was to Shaq, or Pippen was to MJ. He'll have to ride some coattails to get a ring.

...bottom line is Yao is the most dominate player in the league. Give him 20 shots a game and he'd easily average over 30ppg. IMO, MeMac is holding Yao and the rest of the team back. MeMac is simply a loser down to the inner core, from a character standpoint down to his HS level understanding of basketball in general. I'll reiterate Magic Johnson's sentiment, it's time to TRADE TMAC and let Yao run the show!

Chronz
07-04-2008, 03:56 PM
I know he was defending Yao but the way he was defending Yao was stupid...all he argument was "yao is great and you're stupid to think otherwise" beyond that...he has nothing. He didn't really have any substance beyond that. That's what a lot of Tmac supporters in the Rockets forum reminds me of. They don't really have any good substance to back up their claims...like the guy above me. Read his post than look me straight into me eyes (figuratively speaking) and tell me he knows what he's talking about. C'mon...Yao can't lead the teams to wins? Our winning streak started with Yao leading the team! we had a big debate in forum about whether Tmac should come back from injury and take over the team again or play as part of the team. Tmac is better "right now?" By "right now" is he implying Yao still has a lot to learn? ummm...ok? and even if that's true...how is Tmac better than Yao "right now" when Yao is out leading scorer? :confused: you see what i mean? i know i'm a little offensive in my responses and that's because i'm annoyed at the stupidity of a lot of the Tmac supporters in the forum.

Did you read the giant essay he posted in that very same thread though? I agree I dont like the way he backs his stuff up but that was the hardest Ive ever seen him try and your still clowning on him.

SC1211
07-04-2008, 11:44 PM
What are you serious? You are way above yourself buddy. Abs. nothing in your post is legit. Once again, you are covering yourself with your own BIAS.

Wow, I'm glad you refuted my points. Great job.

By the way, unless you're too slow, that was sarcasm.

Ballah0liC1
07-05-2008, 12:59 PM
plain And Simple They Both Are Important Dont U Guys Get Tired Of Arguing Whos Better, Does It Matter They Are Both Houston Rockets So Support Both, Holy **** Im Glad I Havent Been On This Thread In A Month Its The Same Crap

Ballah0liC1
07-05-2008, 01:03 PM
I think some here confuse Memac's alleged value to the team for what is nothing more than having the most dominate role on the team, which I might add, is to the detriment of team success. The ceiling has and always will be 50 wins and a 1st round KO within Tmac dominated system. So unless one is satisified with meaningless regular season success, I fail to see how anyone could mistake Tmac as being more important than Yao.

I can think of a several players that can provide the scoring and playmaking of MeMac: Lebron, Paul Pierce, Joe Johnson, Ginobili, Redd, Kobe...just to name a few.

I can think of a dozen players who do a better job scoring and do so more efficiently without slowing down the offense and igniting the oppositions fast break opportunities.

Who compares with Yao Ming? Duncan had similar post dominace about 6 years ago back when he still had some athleticism and mobility, but he struggles now and has to rely more now on Ginobili and Parker. There simply isn't another post player in the league with Yao's dominance.

D.Howard? Give me a break. The guy is Kevin Willis v2.0. He couldn't score in the post to save his life. He has difficulty defending dominate post scorers. Yao lights him up every time they match up. D.Howard is simply incapable of leading a team to a championship. At best he'll be a great complimentary type player to a superstar. Kinda what Kobe was to Shaq, or Pippen was to MJ. He'll have to ride some coattails to get a ring.

...bottom line is Yao is the most dominate player in the league. Give him 20 shots a game and he'd easily average over 30ppg. IMO, MeMac is holding Yao and the rest of the team back. MeMac is simply a loser down to the inner core, from a character standpoint down to his HS level understanding of basketball in general. I'll reiterate Magic Johnson's sentiment, it's time to TRADE TMAC and let Yao run the show!

Why dont u reiterate what magic and barkley said during the playoffs about tmac

{}
07-05-2008, 01:14 PM
[/B]

Why dont u reiterate what magic and barkley said during the playoffs about tmac

I'm guessing they talked about how admirably he did without Yao and how he was Houston's only chance, basically the standard diplomatic 'Dont blame Tmac' BS response.

Former NBA players are well aware of the criticism players go through. Don't mistake sorrow toward Tmac for adding another 1st round defeat to his legacy as being anything more than that. :rolleyes:

You don't criticise a person at their funeral, do you?