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np6526
07-02-2008, 02:40 PM
I've seen his name pop up so much in recent discussions in our search for a slasher issue and I'm sick of it. Has everyone forgotten what this guy did to our team? Obviously he was each and everyone of ours favorite Raptor, whether you admit it or not, everyone had a piece of them die as a Raptor fan when he was traded for New Jersey's garbage (which isn't tough to find in NJ --that's a landfill reference by the way :D). We got absolutely NOTHING in return for him (aside for allowing Bosh to develop as a superstar) because of the way he handled the situation; he is a complete classless human being in my mind. He's never won anything in his professional career, and I cannot wait to see how he handles his current situation in New Jersey. Karma anyone? :cheers:

I just want to hear what other Raps fans have to say about this, because honestly I'd rather watch VC cry in a Nets jersey than have his name being called out by the P.A announcer at the Air Canada Centre as apart of our starting lineup.

Sure he's still a good player, but getting VC back is like getting back with an ex-girlfriend that ****ed your best friend, twice.

Let me know what you guys think?

(Also I presently live in North Carolina and everyone here LOVES VC, so any sort of VC bashing would be very nice to hear :D)

Mile High Champ
07-02-2008, 02:49 PM
I agree with what you said in almost every way. He is not the answer to the raps problems, I dont want to see his 13 million per year for 5 years anywhere near our team.

JermanJaysFan
07-02-2008, 02:55 PM
I don't want him back. Unless, that is, he comes back bearing full repentance and is accepting of a steep paycut and aknowledges a far more reduced role, and a willingness to attack the basket with full intensity. But I don't see that happening, so I don't see him coming back.

But, since you brought up the manner in which he left the Raptors, the thing I was most upset about was Alonzo Mourning. I was happy to see Vince go, but the way Mourning pussed out of playing in TO and went on to win with Miami pissed me right off. Although "classless human being" is far, far too strong a word to describe anyone, I think that kind of label more correctly applies to Mourning.

Musical Tempo
07-02-2008, 02:56 PM
Karma can come and slap this thread in the face....

If he sticks out till 2010 and Lebron ends up on the New Jersey roster as they become Brooklyn (whatever). He possible could be on a championsihp calibur team.

If he had a lower contract I wouldn't mind taking him on Toronto but he doesnt and he wont so who cares where he ends up. T-mac, Vince, Francis, Marbury, Artest, and so many more where born Superstars but not Winners. Either they change their attitude and take pay cuts play with younger guys who have promise of a Championship title or they disappaer into oblivion with no trophies/rings to show off when they are 40+

B2B
07-02-2008, 02:59 PM
I've seen his name pop up so much in recent discussions in our search for a slasher issue and I'm sick of it. Has everyone forgotten what this guy did to our team? Obviously he was each and everyone of ours favorite Raptor, whether you admit it or not, everyone had a piece of them die as a Raptor fan when he was traded for New Jersey's garbage (which isn't tough to find in NJ --that's a landfill reference by the way :D). We got absolutely NOTHING in return for him (aside for allowing Bosh to develop as a superstar) because of the way he handled the situation; he is a complete classless human being in my mind. He's never won anything in his professional career, and I cannot wait to see how he handles his current situation in New Jersey. Karma anyone? :cheers:

I just want to hear what other Raps fans have to say about this, because honestly I'd rather watch VC cry in a Nets jersey than have his name being called out by the P.A announcer at the Air Canada Centre as apart of our starting lineup.

Sure he's still a good player, but getting VC back is like getting back with an ex-girlfriend that ****ed your best friend, twice.

Let me know what you guys think?

(Also I presently live in North Carolina and everyone here LOVES VC, so any sort of VC bashing would be very nice to hear :D)

Me being a major proponent of advocating the return of "Air Canada" I will be the first to give you my take. It's like Mile High said this is basketball not dating if Vince comes back and we're winning I don't care how many of my ex girls he ****ed because they were all hoes to begin with :D ya hearin' meh. What Vince did may not be forgiveable for some but the added dimension he would bring to this team which is driving & creating from the wing is too great to ignore over past issues as what he brings to the table is what we lack the most. Couple that with his availability and I say why not?.

To me the past is the past if he can move forward I can move forward "I don't give a ****" I want to win and at all cost. ****way with my ex, I'll find a next shorty.

fatkev78
07-02-2008, 03:01 PM
Just no......I'm not gonna waste my time writing any more than that.

Fion
07-02-2008, 03:03 PM
i dont want him back, simply bc i dont want to boo a player on my own team.

baileybwoy
07-02-2008, 03:24 PM
He fits the team like a glove and he woud be a perfect addition at a cheap price. And I never want him to play for us again.

bigtony989
07-02-2008, 03:48 PM
just wait a little bit because he wont be dunking in the dirty bird anymore

AK-50
07-02-2008, 08:50 PM
don't need him waste of talent and i surely wouldn't welcome him back with open arms i don't think any real fan would

ramz.n
07-02-2008, 11:16 PM
lol if he ever came back..i would add a clause to his deal ..stop being a B****

argo
07-02-2008, 11:35 PM
I've seen his name pop up so much in recent discussions in our search for a slasher issue and I'm sick of it. Has everyone forgotten what this guy did to our team? Obviously he was each and everyone of ours favorite Raptor, whether you admit it or not, everyone had a piece of them die as a Raptor fan when he was traded for New Jersey's garbage (which isn't tough to find in NJ --that's a landfill reference by the way :D). We got absolutely NOTHING in return for him (aside for allowing Bosh to develop as a superstar) because of the way he handled the situation; he is a complete classless human being in my mind. He's never won anything in his professional career, and I cannot wait to see how he handles his current situation in New Jersey. Karma anyone? :cheers:

I just want to hear what other Raps fans have to say about this, because honestly I'd rather watch VC cry in a Nets jersey than have his name being called out by the P.A announcer at the Air Canada Centre as apart of our starting lineup.

Sure he's still a good player, but getting VC back is like getting back with an ex-girlfriend that ****ed your best friend, twice.

Let me know what you guys think?

(Also I presently live in North Carolina and everyone here LOVES VC, so any sort of VC bashing would be very nice to hear :D)
first of all, we can't afford him, and wouldn't pay him that much if we could.. second, he's not the slasher he used to be- injuries etc made him settle for more ouside jumpers.. third, who wants a guy that only tries when he feels like it?
on the other hand, maybe he's grown up a bit? i think he got sick of all the pressure he was under here and wanted to play with guys who could share the load. don't forget, a lot of these guys are kids when they're in their prime, and don't always have the best guidance. but going back to the first point, we can't afford him and that's ok by me.

intrepid1983
07-03-2008, 12:15 AM
I still respect Vince Carter, like Chuck Swirsky said, he put Air Canada on the map, stop being so vengeful and whiny, it's over with. Stop hating on VC, he's actually done more than any other raptor has done so far, so stop complaining. He was good when he was in Toronto, he gave his best years to us, and I respect that. For those of you who don't respect him, grow up, tell me who's done more for the raptors than he has. Yeah he left in an inappropriate way, but he's given us far more than he took from us, so I don't see why we just don't forgive and forget?

B2B
07-03-2008, 12:23 AM
I still respect Vince Carter, like Chuck Swirsky said, he put Air Canada on the map, stop being so vengeful and whiny, it's over with. Stop hating on VC, he's actually done more than any other raptor has done so far, so stop complaining. He was good when he was in Toronto, he gave his best years to us, and I respect that. For those of you who don't respect him, grow up, tell me who's done more for the raptors than he has. Yeah he left in an inappropriate way, but he's given us far more than he took from us, so I don't see why we just don't forgive and forget?

+1 well said. :clap:

koreancabbage
07-03-2008, 12:50 AM
+2 now lol VC was the shiet back in the latelate 90's and the early 2000's until injuries and jumpers knee was like a cold virus. Toronto was nothing till VC got here. He put us on the map, got us national televised games, the talk of the NBA, and a rapidly growing fan base BECAUSE of Carter. people came to see Carter and with that, Toronto.

justafan
07-03-2008, 12:51 AM
I second that

Mile High Champ
07-03-2008, 09:31 AM
Wow wow, look at all the vince carter love on this board, gotta say it makes me sick. Im not one to debate that he was not the one that made the franchise and brought it up from nothing. I know he was the reason why the raps took off. That is not the deabate here at all and many of you are missing that. The debate is about if you would want him back after the way he left toronto. That is what is being discussed. My answer is firmly no. Why would things change if he came here a second time? Would he quit on the team and find reasons not to play hard each night, perhaps some excuses like "my knee is bothering me" or whatever BS he has used over the years.

Why is he the answer? Our defense as a team is anything but great, Sure it gets better with O'neal but we are still not very strong on the defensive end of the floor, particulary at the wing position. What would Carter bring from the standpoint? perhaps a defender who is often lazy and only tries to play defense when he feels its appropriate. If you add a slashing wing player to the team, you have to add a player that can at least be a good defender for us at that spot. Also did anyone stop and think about how Vince would take to a trade in toronto? how would he feel about fighting for shots with O'neal and Bosh? These are legit questions, Vince has always liked being the player the offense is played through, he doesnt like being the leader but he likes being the guy on the offesnive end of the floor. Plus most raptor fans would rip on MLSE for bringing him back, of course people dont forget the things raptor fans chanted at VC when he came back or the signs they made. Here are some of the ones I loved (off-topic but fun).

"VinSanity? No! VinSissy!!!"
"Half Man, Half Effort."
"On the front the shirts said "Half Man, Half Season" and on the back "Make decisions without your mother."

My other concern is the 4 years at 13 million a year left on his contract. Its one thing to only have 2 years left but 4 is just a big price tag to swallow. I would rather not invest that much money in an aging wing player at that long term price tag. I just personally dont see Vince Carter as the answer to any of our problems either aside from upgrading the SG spot. Plus as I mentioned before, I dont know if MLSE could swallow and put behind the whole Vince fiasco and nor could the fans. At the end of the day, Toronto does not need Vince Carter anymore, We have Bosh, O'neal and Calderon. No need to dig into the past tor try and relive some moderate glory the raps experienced under VC.

bartlett2266
07-03-2008, 09:48 AM
If he had a hugh apology and admitted he stopped trying and he wants to make up for i would consider it we really need help out of the sg/sf position he would fit perfect especially as a 2nd or 3rd option

lukeem21
07-03-2008, 10:19 AM
Vince is not the answer... vince clearly does not have the heart of a champion... we've got two players that should be right around 20ppg in Bosh and Oneal, we've got a lot an array of players that can spread the floor... if we need to bring in a perimeter player it should be someone that will slash without fear (hasnt been vince for a long time) and play real hard nosed defence (never was vince)

I'd take Mickael Pietrus over Vince Carter right now... I doubt we can land him with the MLE

But

Oneal.... Bargnani... Jawai
Bosh...... Hump
Moon..... Pietrus
Parker..... Graham.... Delfino?
Calderon.... Ukic

This way we still have good depth and stay younger healthier and less cowardly

Raptors27
07-03-2008, 10:37 AM
NO Vince Carter, he is not even close to the answer. He offers nothing we need.

B2B
07-03-2008, 11:57 AM
I'm taken back by some of your comment's. I can understand the reason you dislike Carter. You can hate him all you want but don't let you're hatred cloud your judgement. Anyone telling me Carter is not better than Parker,Moon, & Graham is just rediculous, even without the so called heart your taking about. I would take a heartless Vince over all three of those player's any day of the week.

Lukeem said: Vince clearly does not have the heart of a champion

I will not argue this point but we do not need him to be a leader, all we need from Vince is to create for himself and put points on the board, give the Raps another dimension to their game. Leave the leadership to Bosh & O'Neal.

Basketball is a buisness and if Carter can help us win I'm all for it but doesn't mean I have to like the individual. ****way with Vince I want to win.

Mile High Champ
07-03-2008, 01:17 PM
I'm taken back by some of your comment's. I can understand the reason you dislike Carter. You can hate him all you want but don't let you're hatred cloud your judgement. Anyone telling me Carter is not better than Parker,Moon, & Graham is just rediculous, even without the so called heart your taking about. I would take a heartless Vince over all three of those player's any day of the week.

Lukeem said: Vince clearly does not have the heart of a champion

I will not argue this point but we do not need him to be a leader, all we need from Vince is to create for himself and put points on the board, give the Raps another dimension to their game. Leave the leadership to Bosh & O'Neal.

Basketball is a buisness and if Carter can help us win I'm all for it but doesn't mean I have to like the individual. ****way with Vince I want to win.


But there are many concerns here regarding his role with the raptors. I mentioned a few and you didnt respond to any of them, they do have merit. Carter just aint the answer.

pebloemer
07-03-2008, 01:49 PM
I'm taken back by some of your comment's. I can understand the reason you dislike Carter. You can hate him all you want but don't let you're hatred cloud your judgement. Anyone telling me Carter is not better than Parker,Moon, & Graham is just rediculous, even without the so called heart your taking about. I would take a heartless Vince over all three of those player's any day of the week.

Lukeem said: Vince clearly does not have the heart of a champion

I will not argue this point but we do not need him to be a leader, all we need from Vince is to create for himself and put points on the board, give the Raps another dimension to their game. Leave the leadership to Bosh & O'Neal.

Basketball is a buisness and if Carter can help us win I'm all for it but doesn't mean I have to like the individual. ****way with Vince I want to win.

For a player who we only need points from, 4 more years at 13 million is quite a bit. Has us eating a lot of salary for a long time. In two years Bosh and Oneal's contracts expires, if they hit the road, we are stuck rebuilding with a crybaby and a big contract. His inconsistency with defense is also a big concern for a team needing to improve defense.

I would not want to take that big of a risk landing a player with a big contract just for a one or two season window. There are far too many red flags that come with the idea for two few advantages.

Raptors27
07-03-2008, 02:04 PM
I don't hate Carter, he just isn't what we need. He's Lazy and only tries sometimes.

B2B
07-03-2008, 02:44 PM
For a player who we only need points from, 4 more years at 13 million is quite a bit. Has us eating a lot of salary for a long time. In two years Bosh and Oneal's contracts expires, if they hit the road, we are stuck rebuilding with a crybaby and a big contract. His inconsistency with defense is also a big concern for a team needing to improve defense.

I would not want to take that big of a risk landing a player with a big contract just for a one or two season window. There are far too many red flags that come with the idea for two few advantages.

As it stands as of today Carter's ability at SG would make us contenders in my opinion that's the reality of it.

If you want to play the what if game and try to fortell the future and it's outlook and say Carter will waste away. Here's my crystal ball

Calderon is signed for 5ys
Carter is signed for 5ys
?
?
?

When O"neal Becomes a free agents in the summer of 2010 it's 23 mil off the books. With the shortened bench and the lesser players signed this year our salary would be around 40 mil give or take a mil or 2. Assuming the cap would be set around 58 mil roughly we would have around 16 - 18 mil to offer a free agent if we choose not to resign O'Neal This of course if Bosh picks up his option.

Calderon 8mil
Carter 13 mil
?
Bosh
O'Neal assuming he worked out is resigned 13 mil

Summer 2010 when O'Neal comes off the books

Unrestricted free agents

PP
Tracy Mcgrady
Caron Butler
Boozer
Rip

Let's say for arguments sake we resign O'Neal for less. We go into the summer of 2011 when Bosh is an unrestricted free agent with a lineup of

Calderon 8 mil
Carter 13 mil
?
?
O'Neal 13 mil assuming he signed for less

Summer 2011 when Bosh is a free agent if he didn't opt out in 2010

Unrestricted free agents

Garnett -
Lebron -
Josh Howard -
Prince -
Yao -
Kobe Bryant -
Jefferson -
Redd -
Amare Stoudamire -
Bosh -

+ some good young players not listed

Of course I cannot state our course of action but I brought this up to show you that we have options & with BC shortening the bench their will be more money to aqcuire better talent via free agency as we will have several players signed to the minimum or less.

There are many scenarios in which can play out but check this possible scenario

With Carter & Calderon the only 2 locked up past 2010

Calderon
Carter

In 2010 We didn't resign O'Neal but we signed Caron Butler

Calderon
Carter
Caron

In 2011 Bosh likes how the team is shaping up. He's gets signed with the LBE after we aquire Amare through free agency

Calderon
Carter
Caron
? Will Bosh resign with the team as is.
Amare

Final product

Calderon
Carter
Caron
Bosh
Amare

To say we will get stuck with Carter is assuming the worst, the point of my post is to show you that the future cannot be told with certainty and for you to say Carter in 4y will be useless is pure assumption. (We do & will have options whether Vince signs or not). If Vince can help us win a championship even if it's for one year I'm all for the signing. How many losing seasons have we had to sit through?. What's a couple more if we stand a chance to win it all.

B2B
07-03-2008, 02:52 PM
I don't hate Carter, he just isn't what we need. He's Lazy and only tries sometimes.

Why don't you talk to Net's fans and ask them what they think of Carter. Carter stoped trying in TO to force management to trade him because they didn't want to not because he didn't want to win.

argo
07-03-2008, 03:53 PM
Why don't you talk to Net's fans and ask them what they think of Carter. Carter stoped trying in TO to force management to trade him because they didn't want to not because he didn't want to win.

woah, a lot of this is hypothetical. carter was dealing with some nagging injuries towards the end of his TO tenure, much of the load was on his young shoulders, his mom was always in his ear telling him what to do, we had questionable management.. there were lots of factors involved.
personally i think it's dumb to boo the guy. he gave a lot to toronto fans, the best years of his career.
sometimes fans get too emotional, like a bitter ex-girlfriend who slanders your good name because she can't get over you leaving her and every other chick you meet thinks you're an *******. lol, not that i would know of course!

Numbers
07-03-2008, 04:39 PM
Fool me once shame on you
Fool me twice shame on me.

There are very few players who have openly admitted to quitting on their team and I would not want to be the GM who brings that player back to the city that he quit on.

It would not be fair to Carter or the team to bring back a player that would divide the fans. Every injury, missed shot or complaint would become a distraction.

The suggestion has public relations fiasco written all over it. MLSE is in the business of pleasing its fans and bringing Carter back does not mean a championship so without a 100% assurance that Toronto wins it all by signing him don't look for VC back in a Raptors uniform.

baileybwoy
07-03-2008, 05:34 PM
woah, a lot of this is hypothetical. carter was dealing with some nagging injuries towards the end of his TO tenure, much of the load was on his young shoulders, his mom was always in his ear telling him what to do, we had questionable management.. there were lots of factors involved.
personally i think it's dumb to boo the guy. he gave a lot to toronto fans, the best years of his career.
sometimes fans get too emotional, like a bitter ex-girlfriend who slanders your good name because she can't get over you leaving her and every other chick you meet thinks you're an *******. lol, not that i would know of course!

No. Its not hypothetical. He openly admitted he wasn't trying for us in an interview like a week after the trade. He's a *****. Thats it.

ramz.n
07-03-2008, 05:35 PM
lol some of you guys are still living in the past, you got to remember hes not the same Vince as when he won the Dunk title or lead the raptors to the playoffs.

_Sn1P3r_
07-03-2008, 05:43 PM
Love this post. And i totally agree, i wouldn't accept him back even if they were paying us.

nads83
07-03-2008, 05:59 PM
id take vince over parker adams and kapono for sure. not at his current price tho. he'd have to take a pay cut and accept 4mil per