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moneyball
07-02-2008, 11:39 AM
Is anyone else getting tired of the Hansen saga? I hope he can be packaged in a trade while he may still have some value. Seeing him come in to games in the 8th inning inspires no confidence. There always seems to be a walk, wid pitch and a run in his appearances. In defense of Tito on this one there is currently no one else I am comfortable with as 8th inning guy either. Hope the FO can find one at deadline.

ThreeIfBaerga
07-02-2008, 11:51 AM
Considering what this kid has had to go through (being rush to the majors, having his delivery overhauled, riding the shuttle for years, finally being allowed to go back to his natural delivery and almost immediately getting thrust into a set-up role), I'd say give him a chance. He's still real young and you've got to be drooling about that slider.

RedSoxtober
07-02-2008, 11:53 AM
8BB/9IP in his last 10 appearances does not inspire a lot of confidence that's for sure. Neither does a 1.50 overall whip.

'Course MDC is no better. Once again he coughed up the hit that scored the run in the 8th and his streaky performance is once again running the wrong way.

RedSoxtober
07-02-2008, 11:58 AM
Considering what this kid has had to go through (being rush to the majors, having his delivery overhauled, riding the shuttle for years, finally being allowed to go back to his natural delivery and almost immediately getting thrust into a set-up role), I'd say give him a chance. He's still real young and you've got to be drooling about that slider.

Personally, I'm getting tired of this line. It's a series of excuses now. Yes, he was rushed into MLB. No doubt about that. But now it's a valid question to wonder how long that stands to excuse his inability to pitch at that level.

The rush was 4 games in 2005, 38 in 2006, and none in 2007. Supposedly he'd found his stuff and he's dominated AAA. With almost a year and a half between his MLB stints I believe it's time to pull the plug on the "rushed" excuse. There may be several factors contributing to his ineffectiveness but a few cameos in his first two professional seasons no longer counts among them.

bagwell368
07-02-2008, 12:19 PM
Hansen is good enough to be a ML RP. His slider is good/great, and he can look great. He can look like crap, we all see that.

If we can get a killer lefty for the pen for Hansen and a high prospect, OK. It depends, but to say we must get rid of him no matter what is a bit much. After sitting through Gagne last year and Timlin this year, I don't see the rush.

RedSoxtober
07-02-2008, 12:24 PM
Hansen is good enough to be a ML RP. His slider is good/great, and he can look great. He can look like crap, we all see that.

If we can get a killer lefty for the pen for Hansen and a high prospect, OK. It depends, but to say we must get rid of him no matter what is a bit much. After sitting through Gagne last year and Timlin this year, I don't see the rush.

Who said anything about getting rid of him? I said only that "he was rushed" is no longer an excuse. To keep perpetuating that is to suggest that a kid who had a bad second grade because he got sick and missed some time should be excused for getting D's as a sophomore; at some point it's no longer relevent and I believe that point is now.

His performance in 2008 should stand on its own, not excused or colored by what's happened in his young career. If he pitches well then great. If he pitches poorly then it's not because he was rushed three seasons ago it's because he's not good enough (yet).

Personally I absolutely hate his delivery and wonder how he can repeat it. So far... he's not.

sboyajian
07-02-2008, 12:58 PM
Who said anything about getting rid of him? I said only that "he was rushed" is no longer an excuse. To keep perpetuating that is to suggest that a kid who had a bad second grade because he got sick and missed some time should be excused for getting D's as a sophomore; at some point it's no longer relevent and I believe that point is now.

His performance in 2008 should stand on its own, not excused or colored by what's happened in his young career. If he pitches well then great. If he pitches poorly then it's not because he was rushed three seasons ago it's because he's not good enough (yet).

Personally I absolutely hate his delivery and wonder how he can repeat it. So far... he's not.

I think he was referring to this:


Is anyone else getting tired of the Hansen saga? I hope he can be packaged in a trade while he may still have some value. Seeing him come in to games in the 8th inning inspires no confidence. There always seems to be a walk, wid pitch and a run in his appearances. In defense of Tito on this one there is currently no one else I am comfortable with as 8th inning guy either. Hope the FO can find one at deadline.

Wake's Fastball
07-02-2008, 06:40 PM
As a disclaimer every time I post about Hansen, I'm probably one of his few ardent supporters, and I'm somewhat biased as such. He might have been, on the whole, our most effective reliever last month, and given that he's still a very young player (24), there's no reason to think that he's not capable of getting better. He's really turned a corner this year, and while he's certainly looked shaky at times, it's been as a result of missing the plate, rather than getting hit as has been the case in the past. He's got a remarkably low BAA, and I'm convinced he's certainly on the right track to being a very good reliever.

RedSoxRok34
07-02-2008, 11:14 PM
there's no doubting the stuff MDC and hansen have, but the problem is they need to be able to locate their pitches, and that's not an ability that comes overnight.

agreed tho, we need to find a reliable 8th inning guy

KmB728
07-02-2008, 11:17 PM
We need to make a trade deadline move, forget about getting a bat in the lineup we need a bullpen

ManRam
07-02-2008, 11:19 PM
I'm a Hansen supporter. Kid has amazing stuff. Once he can harness it, he'll be amazing. One of the nastiest sliders I've ever seen.

I just posted this in another thread...

"Hansen, prior to tonight, has blown a grand total of one game this year. He has lost two games, but the last one was on May 17th. He's been fine lately, prior to tonight. Manny has blown two games, and lost two games. Both had great Junes (sub 3 ERAs). Hell, Manny gave up a run in only one of his last 15 starts!

Let's not pin all the blame on them. Blame them for tonight, but not for our season."

He's struggled at times, but been brilliant at others. Hansen isn't why we're getting swept by the Rays. There are bigger problems.

yaowowrocket11
07-02-2008, 11:19 PM
I was sick of Hansen a while ago. He has no future in the MLB. Nothing he does is special besides his slider if he ever gets his control down. The whole bullpen is getting ridiculous.

bosox1899
07-03-2008, 12:03 AM
I was sick of Hansen a while ago. He has no future in the MLB. Nothing he does is special besides his slider if he ever gets his control down. The whole bullpen is getting ridiculous.

hansen looks so goofy, if he didnt have a 97-99 mph fastball and that slider which he can barely locate anyhow hed never would have made it out of AA anyways...delcarmen is almost just as bad and after seeing today he seems lazy, he let bartlett i think? steal third on him without even paying a second of attention and then he freezes then realizes he needs to run to first on a groundball by akinori...heres a list of things red sox management/fo needs to do (some prob wont happen obviously):

1. Put Varitek on the DL or anything to get him out for a while

2. Get rid of Lugo, I know this has been brought up a million times, but the guy has no baseball smarts, shown by the interference call when Ellsbury was running, why did lugo evne bother that costs us a run and prob the game since we lost by 1 run

3. rebuild the whole bullpen with the exception of Paps, Aardsma, Oki (maybe) and Lopez, within the farm, we have some good young pitchers in AAA and AA, why not give em a try it couldnt be worse than delcarmen and hansen right now

4. get another power bat, we have plenty of speed but little pop with ortiz out, it would be awesome to get Dunn or even Griffey but seems kind of unlikely so anyone who can hit home runs while not striking out every time would be a big lift.

Come on theo make something happen, out of those 4 im really hoping for 2 and/or 3

Tragedy
07-03-2008, 12:07 AM
I was sick of Hansen a while ago. He has no future in the MLB. Nothing he does is special besides his slider if he ever gets his control down. The whole bullpen is getting ridiculous.
Oh, lets not go that far now.

Hansen still has a TON of upside. That slider, when on, is downright filthy. When you add his high 90's fastball that sometimes is located, he can be a GREAT reliever.

Right now, though, he's simply not a good reliever. He should probably head back to AAA and try and continue working through his annoying mechanical issues. But lets not say he doesn't have a future.

lil'papi
07-04-2008, 08:54 AM
Use his upside to get us someone else with upside. He might just need a change of scenery. Sometimes that wake up call does wonders.
It's not like we haven't given him chances to shine.

Not sure at this point, but it is becoming a hard thought.

Lord Byron 34
07-05-2008, 10:39 PM
They should bring Buchholz back and move Masterson to the bullpen. Or at least try that before they go bring in another Eric Gagne.

BigEric
07-06-2008, 03:03 AM
I hate all relief pitchers that are inconsistant, and that's what he is. The position is meant to be for consistant pitchers, and since he's not one, I say give him the boot.

Raidaz4Life
07-06-2008, 10:23 AM
I say we hang on to the kid.... he has some nasty stuff, his only problem is developing control and hopefully that will come in time. The guy is still young

Tragedy
07-06-2008, 10:38 AM
I hate all relief pitchers that are inconsistant, and that's what he is. The position is meant to be for consistant pitchers, and since he's not one, I say give him the boot.
There are only a handful of relievers in baseball that are actually consistent, though. That's what makes it so difficult to judge how good a bullpen will be from year to year. Two years ago? Our bullpen sucked. Last year? Awesome. This year? Sucks again.

It's just the way it works. There aren't many relievers that have been consistent for 5-10 years.

RedSoxtober
07-06-2008, 05:36 PM
^^^ There are a million examples of guys who can't perform consistently out of the pen, but the most timely one right now is the 2007 saves leader Joe Borowski, who just got DFA'ed (http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080704&content_id=3063152&vkey=news_cle&fext=.jsp&c_id=cle) by the Indians. That kind of inconsistency happens all the time.

BTW, any interest in picking up Borowski for our troubled pen? He might relish the chance to get back to October and might regain some form if not expected to close.

lotti51
07-06-2008, 06:09 PM
i like Borowski, if he can prove to be consistant in non-pressure situations. this would also add another veteran presence to our pen.

lil'papi
07-08-2008, 09:03 AM
No......
........simple really we have better arms now , less use = better pen.
Dicek going 7+ and Beckett getting right would certainly prove beneficial. We need more innings from starters.

We will get Masty for the pen and I am POSITIVE he has a better arm than borowski. I do see him longterm as a starter , but for now to limit innings and pitches thrown he makes perfect sense.;)

scottyc04901
07-11-2008, 09:23 PM
No......
........simple really we have better arms now , less use = better pen.
Dicek going 7+ and Beckett getting right would certainly prove beneficial. We need more innings from starters.

We will get Masty for the pen and I am POSITIVE he has a better arm than borowski. I do see him longterm as a starter , but for now to limit innings and pitches thrown he makes perfect sense.;)

Exactly Masterson will be a great addition to the pen uplifting the pen and hopefully helping to close out the game

Shaiza
07-11-2008, 10:33 PM
I believe Borowski can perform better than Timlin. If we have a chance, I'd say give him a shot.

celticfan
07-11-2008, 11:09 PM
me too

lil'papi
07-12-2008, 09:15 AM
I believe Borowski can perform better than Timlin. If we have a chance, I'd say give him a shot.


boy I'm not so sure? If he was helpful teams would have jumped all over him. Timlin can still hump it. He is throwing 95mph.

Borowski does it with mirrors. One cracked on him this year.;)

Marte peeked my interest. He would help more than Timlin too. lol

TheLogical
07-13-2008, 01:19 AM
I believe Borowski can perform better than Timlin. If we have a chance, I'd say give him a shot.


False, even though Borowski had lots of saves he still blew a ton of them.
Which explains his 5.07 ERA, he's another Gagne for the Sox.
I think Timlin can perform wonders beyond Borowski.

lil'papi
07-13-2008, 09:16 AM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/borowjo01.shtml

Thats one serious drop off......almost arm injury like.