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fly boy
07-01-2008, 08:19 PM
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From:Hoopsworld.com

It's no secret the Denver Nuggets need a point guard heading into next season, and league sources continue to point to Kirk Hinrich as the man Denver is targeting. Armed with a future first round draft pick courtesy of the Charlotte Bobcats, expect the Nuggets and the Bulls to continue discussing a potential deal.
The question remains whether or not the Bulls would be interested in taking back either Nene or Marcus Camby, one of which would likely have to be included for a deal to get done. It's always possible the Nuggets could look at getting a third team involved as well, but that's much easier to talk about hypothetically than it is to put into practice.

If a deal for Hinrich can't be worked out, another possibility is Shaun Livingston. Most NBA observers have seen the gruesome tape of Livingston tearing everything a human possibly could in his knee, and there remains great doubt as to whether or not he'll ever return to full-strength as evidenced by the Clippers' decision not to tender him a qualifying offer.

That said, Livingston could be just the player the Nuggets need. He's a 6-foot-7 point guard who would be able to defend opposing shooting guards therefore making him a nice complement to Allen Iverson on the defensive end of the floor. The 22-year-old is a solid player offensively who has no problem playing the role of playmaker as opposed to scorer. He's also a guy Nugget fans might remember as being the best player on the court for extended stretches during the Clippers' 2006 playoff victory over Denver.

Perhaps most important given Denver's current salary cap situation, Livingston could likely be signed for a very reasonable price. Of course, all of this is dependent on whether or not he's ready to contribute at a high level next season, which according to multiple league sources is still a very big if.

Livingston is the classic example of a potential high-risk, high-reward free agent play. If he regains his form he could be the long-term answer the Nuggets are looking for at the point. If not, Denver could end up being forced to start a point guard better suited to be a backup as we saw most of last season.

Hinrich remains option number one for the Nuggets. Unrestricted free agent Chris Duhon is a player who has been on the Nuggets' radar since last offseason and remains a possibility as well. However, if the team can't get a deal done for either Hinrich or Duhon, Livingston could be the next best available option.

fly boy
07-01-2008, 08:49 PM
i think it can work out well if shaun livingston can get help from da trainers like k-mart did..he'll be a beast watch n mark my words

avsman05
07-01-2008, 09:07 PM
if they cant get chauncey or hinrich im all for this. maybe hinrich and livingston would be a good tandum as well.

DJiC
07-01-2008, 09:21 PM
why not have billups or hinrich and then have shaun off the bench with the clipps getting bdavis he seems pretty expendable at this point for them....and even though hes coming off a injury where he might as well have had his leg ripped off...imo he can still ball

Afridi786
07-01-2008, 09:33 PM
They declined his option, he's a free agent.

ivyleague1
07-01-2008, 09:49 PM
Is He Healthy ? Get Him !!!!

golden_nugget
07-01-2008, 10:04 PM
a 6-7 point guard would be perfect for us right now

DJiC
07-01-2008, 10:27 PM
whether he's healthy or not i think we should take a chance on him..i think he'll surprise some of us when he is ready to make that comeback, yet he will be reserved about driving, dunking, etc. due to that mental thinking about that leg

avsman05
07-01-2008, 11:01 PM
we have melo ai and kmart for that even though kmart isnt kmart of old. but we have enuf of that we need a floor general and perimeter d.

mgthompson
07-01-2008, 11:27 PM
Forget about his injured past....afterall "Nuggets" are very fragile anyway.........


Honestly he would be great if he could stay healthy.

kylem4711
07-01-2008, 11:32 PM
for how much though? because if you were thinking dirt cheap, then the clippers would probably do that too. i was hoping they would get him back for like 2 mill a year

Crunchy12489
07-01-2008, 11:46 PM
Attention.

George Karl and the rest of the Denver Nuggets' Front Office.

Make this deal now.

Please.

Your last offseason "transactions" if you would call them that, haven't been that great. Do us a favor and redeem this organization.

PULL THE TRIGGER! WAIVE CARTER! KOUBA + CARTER ISN'T ON THE PAYROLL, LIVINGSTON IN PLACE!

DJiC
07-02-2008, 12:05 AM
theres no need to waive carter if his contract is up anyways....we should sign livingston,trade atkins/camby/s&t najera/maybe ai for 1.banger in the middle 2.defensive sg 3.backup pg

DenButsu
07-02-2008, 12:48 AM
I edited the thread title because there's nothing concrete to suggest the Nuggets are actually targeting Livingston - it's just speculation by some dude at hoopsworld, which is pretty much on the same level as speculation by you or me - an educated guess by a basketball fan.


I'm pretty strongly against picking up Livingston unless he's only going to cost us like $1.5 million. I have zero confidence in his recovery. I think it's really possible that his injury was career ending. Picking him up at any price is taking a huge risk. He might be worth it if the price is cheap - but only then, especially since any additional player's price is double for us since we're in the luxury tax. But then again...


Clippers Decline Livingston

WMBD/WYZZ-TV - LOS ANGELES -- Former Peoria Central All-American Shaun Livingston appears headed out of Los Angeles.

The Clippers, who made Livingston the fourth overall selection in the 2004 NBA draft, declined to extend the guard a qualifying contract offer Tuesday. Livingston, 22, becomes an unrestricted free agent.

Livingston is still recovering from a gruesome knee injury suffered nearly 17 months ago that kept him sidelined all of last season. He tore the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL), the posterior cruciate ligament (PCL), and sprained his medial collateral ligament (MCL) in a game against Charlotte on February 26, 2007.

1. I'm not a doctor, but it sounds to me like he shredded just about everything there was in his knee that he could possibly shred

2. He hasn't played AT ALL in a year and a half - do you really want to pin our hopes on an AC/Chucky upgrade on this guy? Even if has shown great potential as a player, how is that not completely offset by his injury risk? Do we really want another Nene/Chucky type chronic injury case on our roster?

3. He was the Clips' first round, #4 draft pick, and they didn't even extend him a cheapass QO. So even they are not willing to take a risk on their own project. So, why should we?

DenButsu
07-02-2008, 12:50 AM
And just so it's clear, I do agree with all the reasons everyone here has stated for liking him, if he's actually able to play. It's just that my doubt about that is so strong that I have close to zero hope that he could ever deliver that game that he previously showed the potential for delivering.

DJiC
07-02-2008, 01:00 AM
den you have to remember we took a chance on kmart after he had like what 3 knee surgeries? he didnt play in the 06-07 season after the first game, he didnt play most of the 05-06 season so thats like 2 years....yet come 07-08 he shows signs of the old kmart....livingston would be perfect, hes a WHOLE lot cheaper than martin especially since he knows his value is down due to the injury...were also taking a chance on nene who didnt play this year or most of last year either so as far as injuries go our track record shows that we take chances on guys who are injury prone and im more than sure if livingston plays for us he'll be a whole lot better than any guy we can find out there this offseason that is signable without trading

DenButsu
07-02-2008, 01:21 AM
I understand what you're saying. And as I said before, if the price tag is really cheap, I'd probably be willing to take the risk.

But I don't think the K-Mart comparison really holds. Like AI, K is just an absolute freak of nature - he's truly a unique physical specimen. How many players in the league could have recovered from that surgery and shown up to training camp at 3% body fat? He's a rare breed. But more importantly than that, even, is the nature of the injuries themselves. If I remember correctly (and I may not), he had some "floating cartilage" or something like that in his knee that was the cause of the last surgery.

Livingston absolutely, completely, devastatingly just got his knee ripped up into total pulp. I think it must be among the severest injuries in the history of the league - again, I'm not a doctor, but I don't think that's an exaggeration. I think he really may never play again in the NBA. One more shot and out.

There are all kinds of very solid reasons to love the prospect of a 6'7" point guard who can do what he does. But if he really could, would the Clippers be letting him walk in the first place? I highly doubt it. And if he can't play, obviously, all that potential goes right down the crapper.

DJiC
07-02-2008, 01:38 AM
livingston injury is serious especially since it was 3 of the CL's in his leg...like daunte culpepper when he was with the minn. vikings (NFL) he tore his ACL, MCL, PCL very serious but he is somewhat making a comeback even though NFL is more physical than the NBA so it should be easier for him to make a comeback....i dont think 3% body fat is healthy from what i have learned, but ya livingston from what i have seen during clipper games where they show his rehab...he seems to be mobile enough to play for us esp since he wont have to drive to the whole much....i was surprised the clippers didnt offer him anything since they dont really have a pg to backup bdavis

DenButsu
07-02-2008, 01:57 AM
I was only referring to the body fat % as an indicator that he maintained an amazing level of fitness in spite of being unable to move around on his feet for so long. After going through that process, most people would put on some poundage.

Nugget Tony
07-02-2008, 03:11 AM
hmmmm...I wouldnt mind seeing Livingston on our roster.....I think that might be the best route to go....if healthy......

Just dont want to give up too much to get Hinrich or Billups.....

Even tho Camby has absoulutely no O.....Im not sure we can trade him...I keep looking at our options if we do trade Camby for Hinrich....were screwed at C...becasue up to this point Nene has proven to be unreliable....

Im just ready for some ballin......hurry up NFL...and NBA.....cuz the MLB sux ***....

AIMelo=KillaDUO
07-02-2008, 05:23 AM
yea im pretty sick of baseball as well.

I would really want livingston to come to Denver, we could have a deadly starting 5.

Does anyone know if we could get Livingston and Artest.. while keeping AI, Melo, JR, and Nene?

Broncs4Life
07-02-2008, 09:28 AM
I edited the thread title because there's nothing concrete to suggest the Nuggets are actually targeting Livingston - it's just speculation by some dude at hoopsworld, which is pretty much on the same level as speculation by you or me - an educated guess by a basketball fan.


I'm pretty strongly against picking up Livingston unless he's only going to cost us like $1.5 million. I have zero confidence in his recovery. I think it's really possible that his injury was career ending. Picking him up at any price is taking a huge risk. He might be worth it if the price is cheap - but only then, especially since any additional player's price is double for us since we're in the luxury tax. But then again...



1. I'm not a doctor, but it sounds to me like he shredded just about everything there was in his knee that he could possibly shred

2. He hasn't played AT ALL in a year and a half - do you really want to pin our hopes on an AC/Chucky upgrade on this guy? Even if has shown great potential as a player, how is that not completely offset by his injury risk? Do we really want another Nene/Chucky type chronic injury case on our roster?

3. He was the Clips' first round, #4 draft pick, and they didn't even extend him a cheapass QO. So even they are not willing to take a risk on their own project. So, why should we?


Well said. I'm sorry but I don't see that taking a risk to sign a guy who destroyed his knee is a good move. The guy suffered a terrible injury and he may not be the same player he once was. We are basing him coming here on what we saw pre injury. He was explosive, quick, etc...well that was before his knee got put through a meat grinder. When I was in high school, I played basketball and had a very similar injury, tore the ACL, PCL, MCL, meniscus and dislocated my kneecap. I was told that my days of playing basketball were over. Granted I wasn't playing professionally, but I still busted my butt just to be able to walk normally again & it was a long road filled with physical therapy and a lot of pain. I couldn't run, jump or even think about basketball for almost 2 years. I can now play for short bursts, but have to wear a massive brace to keep my knee from folding like an accordian.
We don't know how this injury is going to affect him or what the long lasting physical limitations are going to be. I say Denver should pass on him & focus on getting Hinrich or another PG.

mgthompson
07-02-2008, 09:45 AM
We are definitely always after the people just because of their names.

{Sarcasm}Can u imagine:

Livingston
AI
Melo
KMart
Camby

lol. {/Sarcasm}

Instead of always trying to get the best names on the market, lets try and get solid role players that will compliment what we already have.

Wait.....I remember saying this last year..:smoking:

DJiC
07-02-2008, 09:57 AM
well pargo is a role player that were targeting...hinrich is not a role player....so are you saying we should stop trying to get hinrich? and livingston is a role player

C-Dub
07-02-2008, 11:17 AM
i think livingston would be a good pickup for less than 2 mil a year, and for a backup who wont play like long stretches, he would be good for that kind of playing cuz of that knee, that way he isnt depended on as much and he can take more time to strengthen it back. im pretty sure the Pistons arent thinking about trading with G.S. anymore now that Davis aint there, so offer like camby and Kleiza or something for Chauncey or work out that deal for Hinrich, either way, the PG problem could be solved and then we would have to move NENE to start and would probably have to find a more reliable C to start besides him...

mgthompson
07-02-2008, 12:20 PM
well pargo is a role player that were targeting...hinrich is not a role player....so are you saying we should stop trying to get hinrich? and livingston is a role player

No. I think we should not go after Livingston. We should stop go after high risk/high reward players and make more sound decisions.

DES
07-02-2008, 12:36 PM
yea im pretty sick of baseball as well.

I would really want livingston to come to Denver, we could have a deadly starting 5.

Does anyone know if we could get Livingston and Artest.. while keeping AI, Melo, JR, and Nene?
why would you keep nene? hes been injury prone...and clips let livingston hit fa because they are not willing to pay him 5 mil for his injured knee..if anything..he will be in our summer league and we will go from there..but it makes sense for shaun to be in denver with his playmaking skills, he and melo are a great tandem

C-Dub
07-02-2008, 02:04 PM
u mean could be...

kenny922
07-02-2008, 03:00 PM
i dont care what none of u say i want livingston as are point but i wouldent mind gettin a nice back up like hinrich or pargo


this is why i want livingston look at this

http://youtube.com/watch?v=T_QQXQh_6nI

DJiC
07-02-2008, 03:11 PM
ok lets put it this way would you rather have livingston as the pg/sg or would you rather have anthony carter? i know his knee is a concern but wasnt martins knee a concern several years back? and nene's constant injury year in and year out? how bout camby? we have a track record of taking chances on injury prone players why not take a chance on a guy whose only 20 something along with only 1 serious injury his entire life? seriously guys k'mon carter or livingston

fly boy
07-02-2008, 03:42 PM
ill take livingston anyday..even though he had the injury r medical/training staff can get him back to old and thats a plus so i say we go after him..and guys it really is carter or livingson you choose

DJiC
07-02-2008, 03:46 PM
thank you for agreeing with me...seriously if we got martin somewhat back to his old self imagine if we got to work on livingston? seriously livingston would help us tremendously also if we can get artest maybe trade ai/camby/kleiza for like brad miller/artest/kenny thomas? that would be sick miller is a whole lot bigger than camby and i guess i wouldnt mind having him....livingston/artest/melo/martin/miller backup atkins/smith/weems/thomas/hunter

Crunchy12489
07-02-2008, 03:56 PM
thank you for agreeing with me...seriously if we got martin somewhat back to his old self imagine if we got to work on livingston? seriously livingston would help us tremendously also if we can get artest maybe trade ai/camby/kleiza for like brad miller/artest/kenny thomas? that would be sick miller is a whole lot bigger than camby and i guess i wouldnt mind having him....livingston/artest/melo/martin/miller backup atkins/smith/weems/thomas/hunter

GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD. WE AREN'T TRADING AI. HE SAID HE WANTS TO STAY. THE PLAYERS IN THE LOCKER ROOM WANT HIM TO STAY. GEORGE KARL WANTS HIM TO STAY. GET OVER IT.

God dude, if I see one more trade package from you with AI in it I'm going to explode.

Now Kleiza and Camby might actually go somewhere. I hope not... Atleast keep Kleiza

And what's this fetish you have with the Kings? F--- the kings!

Artest is cancer... I can't believe you'd rather have Artest on a team than AI/Melo/K-Mart.

This guy is worse than all 3.

Why can't you at least pick a better option? Such as Shawn Marion. Please stop rambling on about the Kings. Their team is sh-tty, and here you are trying to bring in sh-t to Denver.

Go to the Kings forum.

SUNDUNDIDIT
07-02-2008, 05:27 PM
thank you for agreeing with me...seriously if we got martin somewhat back to his old self imagine if we got to work on livingston? seriously livingston would help us tremendously also if we can get artest maybe trade ai/camby/kleiza for like brad miller/artest/kenny thomas? that would be sick miller is a whole lot bigger than camby and i guess i wouldnt mind having him....livingston/artest/melo/martin/miller backup atkins/smith/weems/thomas/hunter



Please, that makes us a worse team...We can do good with Artest, but why in the hell, would you want a roster of kings and a clipper, when the teams haven't done anything with these players???

You trying to make MELO and MARTIN be the only core players to keep???? That ruins chemistry, and we would have to wait for a couple of years to be comptetitive again, with a coach like Karl tryin to build it up....We isn't talkin about no Garnett and Allen trade, you talkin about Brad Miller and Livingston?...Forget Brad Miller, that would be a turn off from the nuggets for me.

Crunchy12489
07-02-2008, 05:54 PM
LOL Miller?

Miller!?!?!?

Wow.

Hang yourself now. (im jk)

But what the hell!!

kenny922
07-02-2008, 06:31 PM
thank you for agreeing with me...seriously if we got martin somewhat back to his old self imagine if we got to work on livingston? seriously livingston would help us tremendously also if we can get artest maybe trade ai/camby/kleiza for like brad miller/artest/kenny thomas? that would be sick miller is a whole lot bigger than camby and i guess i wouldnt mind having him....livingston/artest/melo/martin/miller backup atkins/smith/weems/thomas/hunter

lmao what the hell are u thinking? just for u thinking this u should kill yourself lmfao

roygconner
07-02-2008, 07:18 PM
Livingston would be well worth the risk of a deal around 2 yr. $2 million per. You have to remember that he is 22 and the younger you are the more likely you are to recover from severe injuries.

DJiC
07-02-2008, 07:33 PM
yes artest is a cancer but he plays better defense than melo/ai/martin combined and every team he's been on especially indy has made their defense at the 2/3 spot better honostly who the **** do you want to guard the other teams best sg or sf? ai?melo?martin? well that didnt ****in work did it cause kobe RAPED us in the playoffs when martin was on him......do you know how much marion makes compared to artest? there is a big difference in salary for starters and im sorry if the kings are willing to trade a guy who can play defense ok so if you want to make a trade with the heat for marion so bad who on our team would they want that can match salaries with marion?

roygconner
07-02-2008, 09:14 PM
yes artest is a cancer but he plays better defense than melo/ai/martin combined and every team he's been on especially indy has made their defense at the 2/3 spot better honostly who the **** do you want to guard the other teams best sg or sf? ai?melo?martin? well that didnt ****in work did it cause kobe RAPED us in the playoffs when martin was on him......do you know how much marion makes compared to artest? there is a big difference in salary for starters and im sorry if the kings are willing to trade a guy who can play defense ok so if you want to make a trade with the heat for marion so bad who on our team would they want that can match salaries with marion?

Good points...I have to say that Martin is a good defender though, he was just playing out of position when he was gaurding Kobe. I agree with all of your other points though.

DenButsu
07-02-2008, 09:26 PM
GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD. WE AREN'T TRADING AI. HE SAID HE WANTS TO STAY. THE PLAYERS IN THE LOCKER ROOM WANT HIM TO STAY. GEORGE KARL WANTS HIM TO STAY. GET OVER IT.

I don't think the Nuggets will trade AI, but I do think it's still a very legitimate possibility that they could, provided that a really attractive offer fell in their lap.


yes artest is a cancer but he plays better defense than melo/ai/martin combined

K-Mart is a great defender. He just happens to be sandwiched between two guys who consistently play piss poor one-on-one defense (Melo and Camby). But you can't blame him for not being able to do the work of three people.

DJiC
07-03-2008, 12:10 AM
in all honosty we need to adress the lack of size/depth not just sg but also c....we dont have anyone to bang in the middle, noone that wants to play defense...i mean k'mon even the suns figured out that they need a C in the middle and now theyve slowed down and play halfcourt games...the west is a no-go on the fast pace lets score points and not play D....we need to get a banger in the middle and a guy who can D up the premiere sg/sf in this league, how bout a pg who can be a playmaker...i will give martin his dues but what was karl thinking? honostly a pf on a sg is like asking boykins to gaurd shaq in his prime just not a good thing...again the lack of size and depth kills us and i thought everyone knew defense wins game? not putting up 100pts and then letting the other team score 101

C-Dub
07-03-2008, 12:05 PM
ya crunchman, thanks for saying the AI thing, he aint goin nowwhere. I couldnt stand seeing that either. But hey quick question, if we ended up getting Artest and starting him, then would we actually need to go out and get another PG, cuz AI would have to move to PG and Ron Ron would prolly be SG? I think we could get a good one, such as Livingtson to back AI up though, that would be good for his recovery, not playing as much....making a slow and steady comeback?