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REGular
07-01-2008, 12:23 PM
How would the following trade look to you guys?

1) Chris Volstad/Ryan Tucker (one or the other, not both)
2) Robert Andino (SS/2B, catch his game right now with Uggla sidelined, has 4 hits in 10 AB in 3 games)
3 & 4) 2 lower level pitching prospects (Perhaps Rick VandenHurk & Eulogio De La Cruz)

Thanks for listening.

Jpripper88
07-01-2008, 06:46 PM
Personally I wouldn't like that because none of those guys are prospects except for Volstad/Tucker. The rest are throw ins that are guys who don't have much upside. As much as I don't trust the Indians drafting I would rather take the picks than that trade offer.

erich72
07-01-2008, 07:08 PM
Personally I wouldn't like that because none of those guys are prospects except for Volstad/Tucker. The rest are throw ins that are guys who don't have much upside. As much as I don't trust the Indians drafting I would rather take the picks than that trade offer.

ditto on that.

Tragedy
07-01-2008, 07:23 PM
Andino? As the second "big" man in this deal? Seriously?

A big fat no. And on top of that, the Marlins won't entertain C.C., because they know he's not going to be on the team passed September/October. They're not exactly the type of team that seems interested in trading prospects (It would take more than that to get C.C., of course) to bring in a rent-a-player.

IndiansFan337
07-01-2008, 11:23 PM
That's not realistic at all. And I don't think Florida will bid on him anyway since they know that they'll have absolutely no chance of signing him long term.

I do think CC would love to get sent to the NL though, if he is dealt. He loves to hit. And the guy can rake. He might win the Silver Slugger.....But then again, he might tear a hamstring trying to get down the first abse line if he has to do that too often.... :shrug:

REGular
07-02-2008, 11:51 AM
Personally I wouldn't like that because none of those guys are prospects except for Volstad/Tucker. The rest are throw ins that are guys who don't have much upside.

Let's say the deal was altered to include either:

Option A -
1) Anibal Sanchez OR Sergio Mitre (2 young starters who have already demonstrated that they can play in the big leagues when healthy)
2) One of Volstad/Tucker/Gaby Hernandez (stud prospect)
3) Robert Andino (A solid defensive middle infielder who will never get a chance to be promoted behind Hanley & Uggla. He has 4 hits in 13 AB (.307) in the 4 games since Uggla went down with injury)
4) One of De La Cruz/VandenHurk/Badenhop (lower level prospect with ceilings of various heights)

Option B -
1 & 2) Pick 2 out of Volstad/Tucker/Hernadez
3) see above
4) see above


Andino? As the second "big" man in this deal? Seriously?

Fair enough. As I said above though, Andino was our MI prospect until we ended up dealing Beckett for Hanley & found Uggla in the Rule 5 Draft.

He's playing now with Uggla out, I think they're show-casing him specifically for the Indians.


And on top of that, the Marlins won't entertain C.C., because they know he's not going to be on the team passed September/October. They're not exactly the type of team that seems interested in trading prospects to bring in a rent-a-player.

That line of thinking is false.
The Marlin's front office has stated and demonstrated that when they believe the Marlins are in a position to make a serious push for the playoffs they will make whatever moves necessary to make that happen.

In 2003 the Fish traded Adrian Gonzalez for Ugueth Urbina. In retrospect trading away that talent for a closer seems awfully lopsided. However, that was a crucial piece missing from that team and with that addition the Marlins won it all.

This year we need help in the rotation. We're a game out of first in the division and our starters have an ERA over 5! They have Josh Johnson coming back next week but I don't believe he will be enough.

The Marlin's leadership knows that they will not re-sign CC for next season and beyond but they won't care, we have a loaded rotation for years to come (Olsen, Johnson, Miller, Nolasco, Sanchez, Mitre and then prospects Volstad, Tucker, Hernandez).

Heading into 2003 the Fish paid Pudge $10,000,000 in a one-year deal. They will spend the money when they believe they have the chance. And I think this year they are starting to believe.

Jpripper88
07-02-2008, 12:12 PM
If it had Tucker and Volstad it would be a possibility, but I just don't think they match up well with the Indians. The Indians first and foremost need big league hitters. To be honest I don't see any in the Marlins system. As much as you may like to think Andino being your top MI prospect before Hanley means something, it doesn't. Right now (and even then really) he was just a marginal prospect and I doubt he could be more than a decent MI backup. Even though I don't think particularly highly of Josh Rodriguez, he is a better prospect than Andino.

There just anything that makes sense for the teams to match up with.

REGular
07-02-2008, 12:15 PM
Oh ok, I figured first and foremost the Indians were looking for pitching depth. And I am aware that they also have trouble at 2nd base. So I thought plugging in some pitching prospects, and taking a flyer on Andino could work out.

CC is gone, and I thought I heard that Byrd would be gone too after this year.

IndiansFan337
07-02-2008, 06:01 PM
Oh ok, I figured first and foremost the Indians were looking for pitching depth. And I am aware that they also have trouble at 2nd base. So I thought plugging in some pitching prospects, and taking a flyer on Andino could work out.

CC is gone, and I thought I heard that Byrd would be gone too after this year.

Yes, they both are F/A's after this year.

We do need help at second base. But we aren't going to trade away a proven stud in CC for someone who may pan out. We want sure or almost sure-things in return. We don't need anymore question marks. We already have way too many of those in our system.

REGular
07-02-2008, 11:59 PM
You will trade CC away. The only question is how much will you get in return. If the team is clearly not going anywhere by the trade deadline then there is absolutely no reason to hold on to the guy.

Getting anything would be better than getting nothing at the end of the year.

Is it definite that he will not be re-signing with the club?

Jpripper88
07-03-2008, 12:18 AM
You will trade CC away. The only question is how much will you get in return. If the team is clearly not going anywhere by the trade deadline then there is absolutely no reason to hold on to the guy.

Getting anything would be better than getting nothing at the end of the year.

Is it definite that he will not be re-signing with the club?

Well they would get a 1st and supplemental 1st. That is one thing a lot of people are forgetting when they devaluing the return for CC if he gets traded. Even if the team that trades for him can't re-sign him they still get those compensation picks. It makes it much less of a blow to their system.

IndiansFan337
07-03-2008, 09:01 AM
Is it definite that he will not be re-signing with the club?

No, it is just speculation.

Tragedy
07-03-2008, 11:18 AM
That line of thinking is false.
The Marlin's front office has stated and demonstrated that when they believe the Marlins are in a position to make a serious push for the playoffs they will make whatever moves necessary to make that happen.

In 2003 the Fish traded Adrian Gonzalez for Ugueth Urbina. In retrospect trading away that talent for a closer seems awfully lopsided. However, that was a crucial piece missing from that team and with that addition the Marlins won it all.

This year we need help in the rotation. We're a game out of first in the division and our starters have an ERA over 5! They have Josh Johnson coming back next week but I don't believe he will be enough.

The Marlin's leadership knows that they will not re-sign CC for next season and beyond but they won't care, we have a loaded rotation for years to come (Olsen, Johnson, Miller, Nolasco, Sanchez, Mitre and then prospects Volstad, Tucker, Hernandez).

Heading into 2003 the Fish paid Pudge $10,000,000 in a one-year deal. They will spend the money when they believe they have the chance. And I think this year they are starting to believe.
I understand everything you're saying. I wasn't trying to say that "The Marlins have never and will never trade away a prospect for a rental player". However, the magnitude of a C.C. trade is something I never would believe the Marlins to be apart of, unless he were signed for at least another season.

If they're going to make a run for the World Series THIS year (It's very likely that they will), they'll go after a smaller pitcher worth less, but will help the team regardless. A guy like Paul Byrd is the first name that comes to my mind.

fishfan79
07-03-2008, 11:43 AM
I dont see us making a move for a front line starter we cant sign, the price isnt worth the expected gains the team is built for next year not this year anyways.

IndiansFan337
07-03-2008, 12:54 PM
I understand everything you're saying. I wasn't trying to say that "The Marlins have never and will never trade away a prospect for a rental player". However, the magnitude of a C.C. trade is something I never would believe the Marlins to be apart of, unless he were signed for at least another season.

If they're going to make a run for the World Series THIS year (It's very likely that they will), they'll go after a smaller pitcher worth less, but will help the team regardless. A guy like Paul Byrd is the first name that comes to my mind.

Well, Byrd can surely be had.

It will be interesting to see which SP is added to our rotation if/when Byrd &/or CC is dealt. Obviously, Carmona will join the rotation when he returns from his injury. But other than that we no longer have anymore SP depth.

Going into this season everyone talked about the depth that Laffey, Sowers, Miller & Lofgren provided for us. No Laffey & Sowers are already in our ML rotation(Although Sowers should not be if there were any better options), Miller is injured, and Lofgren has been demoted! :speechless:

Mouth_For_War
07-03-2008, 01:18 PM
Well, Byrd can surely be had.

It will be interesting to see which SP is added to our rotation if/when Byrd &/or CC is dealt. Obviously, Carmona will join the rotation when he returns from his injury. But other than that we no longer have anymore SP depth.

Going into this season everyone talked about the depth that Laffey, Sowers, Miller & Lofgren provided for us. No Laffey & Sowers are already in our ML rotation(Although Sowers should not be if there were any better options), Miller is injured, and Lofgren has been demoted! :speechless:

David Huff would be a candidate for sure, he's having a good year in the minors, 7-2 overall with a 2.40 ERA. I saw him pitch in Akron earlier this year and he looked really good.

Rich Rundles is having a decent year as well, he's 5-4 with a 3.48 ERA, and was named to the IL All-Star team.

Plus, i'm assuming that if it's C.C. that's going to need replaced in the rotation, the Indians would probably get a high level prospect they feel could fill that spot as well.

Jpripper88
07-03-2008, 02:39 PM
I think there is a good chance that one would come in a trade from CC and the other would be a vet FA or a guy like Elarton. However I would hope that if both CC and Byrd go that Carmona obviously fills one spot and then it is just a vet like Elarton or a FA/AAA Vet because I would like the CC trade focused on young hitters.

Mouth_For_War
07-03-2008, 03:01 PM
I think there is a good chance that one would come in a trade from CC and the other would be a vet FA or a guy like Elarton. However I would hope that if both CC and Byrd go that Carmona obviously fills one spot and then it is just a vet like Elarton or a FA/AAA Vet because I would like the CC trade focused on young hitters.

I would agree 100% about the young hitters, but given the current pitching situation and the lack of depth we now have, and Shapiro's love of young pitching, i'm sure they'll get at least one arm in any deal for Sabathia.

IndiansFan337
07-04-2008, 02:49 AM
I think there is a good chance that one would come in a trade from CC and the other would be a vet FA or a guy like Elarton. However I would hope that if both CC and Byrd go that Carmona obviously fills one spot and then it is just a vet like Elarton or a FA/AAA Vet because I would like the CC trade focused on young hitters.

I don't think Elarton is stretched out enough to go further than 3-4 IP effectively right now. I think we actually have placed him on the restricted list right now?

He would have to get his pitch count up considerably if we were to move him back into the rotation. Since we're rebuilding though, I think we'll go young & try to develop some guys....And keep Elarton in the bullpen for now.

Jpripper88
07-04-2008, 11:56 AM
Sorry guys, I didn't clarify. I was saying a guy LIKE Elarton. A bounce around Vet struggling to hang on. Basically just find a vet that can throw 6 innings and give you (as bad as this sounds) a 5.50-6.00 ERA for the last couple months.