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4cubs
06-27-2008, 05:13 PM
Lee must be leading the league in hitting into double plays.

It's becoming a serious rally killing problem. You only get so many opportunities.

captainatheism
06-27-2008, 05:16 PM
Well this title was misleading.

ChiCubs54
06-27-2008, 05:19 PM
Lee has grounded into 19 DP's this year.

redwhitenblue
06-27-2008, 05:21 PM
4cubs continues to prove he seriously just hates Derrek Lee

Yet to see a thread made on the other slumping individuals of the Cubs...last time you made a Lee thread he went on a nice 2 week tear

Tbomb9887
06-27-2008, 05:22 PM
ya its gettin bad with him. hes having a really uguly month.

Your Name Here
06-27-2008, 05:22 PM
4cubs continues to prove he seriously just hates Derrek Lee

Yet to see a thread made on the other slumping individuals of the Cubs...last time you made a Lee thread he went on a nice 2 week tear

I think he hates all Cubs.


And he still hasn't answered my question in his all-star thread.

mawp
06-27-2008, 05:23 PM
I'm telling you, I think DLee fornicated with one of 4cubs' family member.

This hatred is amusing.

Cullksinikers
06-27-2008, 05:26 PM
It's wierd how 4cubs hates D-Lee and he claims to be from Sacramento. Go figure.

BDawk4Prez
06-27-2008, 05:28 PM
I just traded Lee for Cueto and zambrano today.........

Cullksinikers
06-27-2008, 05:29 PM
Derrek Lee is just being a headcase. I think he's just thinking too much at the plate. If he RELAXES he can return to the player he was at the start of the season.

shrek
06-27-2008, 05:31 PM
close this ****ing thread... what's the point of talking about it?

redwhitenblue
06-27-2008, 05:31 PM
Derrek Lee is just being a headcase. I think he's just thinking too much at the plate. If he RELAXES he can return to the player he was at the start of the season.
The player he was at the start of the season is basically impossible, he's done that one year (2005) and even then he cooled off at the end

Lee is still a .350/.500/.850 player while "sucking" by some people's standards, I only wish the rest of our team would suck a little

Iain
06-27-2008, 05:41 PM
close this ****ing thread... what's the point of talking about it?

Better watch out! Here come the thought police!!!

Cullksinikers
06-27-2008, 05:48 PM
The player he was at the start of the season is basically impossible, he's done that one year (2005) and even then he cooled off at the end

Lee is still a .350/.500/.850 player while "sucking" by some people's standards, I only wish the rest of our team would suck a little

He can hit over .300 though if he relaxes.

WorldChamps1908
06-27-2008, 05:48 PM
Im a huge DLEE fan, but man his DPs are getting out of hand...

redwhitenblue
06-27-2008, 05:52 PM
He can hit over .300 though if he relaxes.
Sure, and Edmonds can run faster if he was younger

Some things are tough to control and take time, he's still hitting well

poodski
06-27-2008, 05:55 PM
Dlee actually does lead the league in DPs.

I was surprised.

redwhitenblue
06-27-2008, 05:59 PM
Dlee actually does lead the league in DPs.

I was surprised.
It was mentioned about 3 times on the telecast today so far

as said, he's always hit quite a few DP's, but this is the first time with the Cubs he has guys hitting in front of him who actually get on base, so the number is obviously going to rise

Cullksinikers
06-27-2008, 06:00 PM
I don't even want to say the words Derrek or Lee for awhile.

poodski
06-27-2008, 06:07 PM
It was mentioned about 3 times on the telecast today so far

as said, he's always hit quite a few DP's, but this is the first time with the Cubs he has guys hitting in front of him who actually get on base, so the number is obviously going to rise

Ah. I really havent been paying much attention to the game. Its on just doing other things.

My bad on missing it.

And yeah I really couldnt care less about his DPs.

Buckwheat
06-27-2008, 06:10 PM
You might as well let it go..

What do you suggest we do? Trade him so we can start Hoffpauir?

Cullksinikers
06-27-2008, 06:27 PM
You might as well let it go..

What do you suggest we do? Trade him so we can start Hoffpauir?

D-Lee you get= DOUBLE PLAYS

Hoffpauir you get= STRIKEOUTS

I'd rather have Derrek Lee because when he's on he's amazuing, he just needs to get on.

4cubs
06-27-2008, 06:29 PM
4cubs continues to prove he seriously just hates Derrek Lee

Yet to see a thread made on the other slumping individuals of the Cubs...last time you made a Lee thread he went on a nice 2 week tearRWB, I don't hate Lee. As I said before, he is my favorite Cub. He's a classy, nice guy. A lot of the time he plays great baseball.

However, the DPs are hurting the team.

Someone confirmed he actually LEADS THE LEAGUE in hitting into DPs. This means he is statistically the worst player in the league in this category. If it is only the NL he is leading, then 374 of 375 hit into less. If it is all of baseball, 749 of 750 hit into less.

I don't think this qualifies as picking on someone if the facts back it up.

If my threads keep prompting Lee to go on 2 week tears, I'll keep making them.

4cubs
06-27-2008, 06:48 PM
I think he hates all Cubs.


And he still hasn't answered my question in his all-star thread.I hate all Cubs that hurt the team and like all Cubs that help the team.

This means I end up hating (and liking) every Cub multiple times throughout each season.

As for the answer in the all star thread; I gave it to you in post 19 (you just didn't like the answer). On why Theriot should make the all star team: "I'm not saying Theriot should start, but he has been one of the biggest catalysts on the team with the best record in baseball. That should count for something." PS - Hanley should start.

Jilly Bohnson
06-27-2008, 06:50 PM
RWB, I don't hate Lee. As I said before, he is my favorite Cub. He's a classy, nice guy. A lot of the time he plays great baseball.

However, the DPs are hurting the team.

Someone confirmed he actually LEADS THE LEAGUE in hitting into DPs. This means he is statistically the worst player in the league in this category. If it is only the NL he is leading, then 374 of 375 hit into less. If it is all of baseball, 749 of 750 hit into less.

I don't think this qualifies as picking on someone if the facts back it up.

If my threads keep prompting Lee to go on 2 week tears, I'll keep making them.

YOu can't honestly expect us to believe that when every time he goes into an extended slump you make a thread complaining bout it, and half the time come up with a bad nickname for him in the title?

bullcubbear23
06-27-2008, 06:52 PM
He has sucked it up the whole month and yes he is a rally killer

No i dont hate him but its true he is ina major slump

mawp
06-27-2008, 06:54 PM
I don't see how one day you can hate somebody and then the next day you love them. That kind of thinking leads me to only one thing: Bandwagon fan.

Seriously, you either like a player or you don't, and if your feelings do change, they shouldn't change from day to day.

cubswoo
06-27-2008, 06:55 PM
Please type in the word double play in the future. I was afraid I was going to see a pornographic picture when clicking on this thread. dp means something totally different in the porn world. And if you don't know what it means please by all means don't let your girlfriend talk you into one unless you want to touch ball sacks with another dude and your woman to be a total ****.

4cubs
06-27-2008, 07:14 PM
4cubs continues to prove he seriously just hates Derrek Lee

Yet to see a thread made on the other slumping individuals of the Cubs...last time you made a Lee thread he went on a nice 2 week tearYou've been around a while. Check old threads for Michael Barrett, Corey Patterson, and Sammy Sosa. I did plenty of slamming.

4cubs
06-27-2008, 07:27 PM
YOu can't honestly expect us to believe that when every time he goes into an extended slump you make a thread complaining bout it, and half the time come up with a bad nickname for him in the title?I've had 2 threads with a nickname for Lee:

Derrek 'Ofer' Lee
Derrek 'DP' Lee

If half the time they are bad nicknames, which is the good one and which is the bad?

captainatheism
06-27-2008, 07:29 PM
I've had 2 threads with a nickname for Lee:

Derrek 'Ofer' Lee
Derrek 'DP' Lee

If half the time they are bad nicknames, which is the good one and which is the bad?

DP Lee would be a good porn name, so I'll say that's the good one.


Did you just say you complained about Sammy Sosa?

yearofthecub
06-27-2008, 07:38 PM
The DP's today from Lee really hurt us on multiple occassions. Who knows what would have transpired if he hadn't killed that rally in third. That being said though, he's a good player, and we need to cut him some slack. I think most everybody on the Cubs is hurt and/or tired right now after this assault of a first half that they've had. They should be better after the all star break and better still after the trade deadline. Slumps happen for every team, it's staying out of extended slumps that will win us the division.

CubsRule08
06-27-2008, 07:40 PM
Please type in the word double play in the future. I was afraid I was going to see a pornographic picture when clicking on this thread. dp means something totally different in the porn world. And if you don't know what it means please by all means don't let your girlfriend talk you into one unless you want to touch ball sacks with another dude and your woman to be a total ****.

:laugh: i definitely know what the porn world's "DP" means :D

Randall Simon
06-27-2008, 08:00 PM
I love DLee but when he is up with the bases loaded I actually cring. He is the anti-clutch right now. I think he needs another day off, or at least Lou threatening one. Last time that happened was in Houston and he went 3/4 or something.

CubsGirl
06-27-2008, 08:19 PM
Do you get some sort of freaky pleasure out of people making fun of your poor judgment?

Your Name Here
06-27-2008, 09:22 PM
As for the answer in the all star thread; I gave it to you in post 19 (you just didn't like the answer). On why Theriot should make the all star team: "I'm not saying Theriot should start, but he has been one of the biggest catalysts on the team with the best record in baseball. That should count for something." PS - Hanley should start.

That wasn't an answer then, and it's not an answer now.

AlwaysNextYear
06-27-2008, 10:09 PM
D lee is not clutch at all, he will come up with runners on take pitches for strikes get down in the count and be at the mercy of the pitcher and often times he does not come through, however without looking at any stats but juss off top of my head memory i would say derosa hits into more double plays than anyone on this team. he is a notorious double play hitter.

Jilly Bohnson
06-27-2008, 10:51 PM
I've had 2 threads with a nickname for Lee:

Derrek 'Ofer' Lee
Derrek 'DP' Lee

If half the time they are bad nicknames, which is the good one and which is the bad?

No, I was saying that half the time you make a thread bashing Lee, you come up with a bad nickname for him and stick it in the title. Both of those nicknames suck.

cubsbears1225
06-27-2008, 10:54 PM
how many homeruns does he have with men on?4 or 5?

AndyDufresne
06-27-2008, 11:10 PM
No, I was saying that half the time you make a thread bashing Lee, you come up with a bad nickname for him and stick it in the title. Both of those nicknames suck.

:laugh2::laugh::laugh2:

Seriously though, we lost today's game because we gave up 10 runs, not because Lee hit into 2 DPs.

Swish-Cab-Ob
06-27-2008, 11:12 PM
Guys, c'mon give Lee a break, he's a great hitter, hell he's got 48 RBI's, not to metion his glove is perfect.

cubswoo
06-27-2008, 11:14 PM
Nah, it is lightly ripped.

what is?

testicles
06-27-2008, 11:16 PM
Lee's glove

redwhitenblue
06-28-2008, 12:03 AM
RWB, I don't hate Lee. As I said before, he is my favorite Cub. He's a classy, nice guy. A lot of the time he plays great baseball.

However, the DPs are hurting the team.

Someone confirmed he actually LEADS THE LEAGUE in hitting into DPs. This means he is statistically the worst player in the league in this category. If it is only the NL he is leading, then 374 of 375 hit into less. If it is all of baseball, 749 of 750 hit into less.

I don't think this qualifies as picking on someone if the facts back it up.

If my threads keep prompting Lee to go on 2 week tears, I'll keep making them.
His DP's aren't hurting the team as much as his .850 OPS and great defense compared to his replacement would hurt the team

AlwaysNextYear
06-28-2008, 12:18 AM
does this testicles person know hes banned or is he just be a d**k and continuing to post?

Your Name Here
06-28-2008, 12:48 AM
D lee is not clutch at all, he will come up with runners on take pitches for strikes get down in the count and be at the mercy of the pitcher and often times he does not come through, however without looking at any stats but juss off top of my head memory i would say derosa hits into more double plays than anyone on this team. he is a notorious double play hitter.

Of course he's not. Nobody is, because "clutch" doesn't exist.

AlwaysNextYear
06-28-2008, 01:53 AM
Of course he's not. Nobody is, because "clutch" doesn't exist.

im not gonna take the bait on this one, so ill simply say "whatever you say man, whatever you say."

windycityD
06-28-2008, 07:33 AM
Of course he's not. Nobody is, because "clutch" doesn't exist.

Yet another aspect of the game that's way debatable between the lines, both qualitatively and quantitatively.

Clutch can certainly be argued by one's BA w/ men in scoring position, particularly with two outs. Is "clutch" a fail safe, ironclad stat? No.

Lee is having a truly distracted and distracting year if you ask me. I think one could readily argue the guy we saw in April and early May may have been abducted by aliens and needs to beam back to earth a bit as soon as he can. He just looks like a guy who has little to no fire right now compared to "that guy."

But, of all the worries within this team, he's certainly not at the top of my personal list.

cubswoo
06-28-2008, 10:55 AM
Of course he's not. Nobody is, because "clutch" doesn't exist.

Please elaborate
What is it am "Every bat is equally important" little league coach philosophy?

Cubsfan23
06-28-2008, 11:30 AM
Look guys, say what you want. Get pissed at what you want but understand that as much you want to drink the cub koolaid and defend any player at all cost, Lee is grounding into way to many double plays. Thats the end of it. If you dont want to talk about it and get mad at people for stating it then you are just being that cubs fan that sox fans always talk about. The one that is always cheering on the player that is struggling and always has an excuse for all cubs players. I love DLEE and I want him to be our first baseman. The fact of the matter is Lou needs to do his job and figure out why Lee is having problems with men on base with these DP's. From what I see, he is trying to pull low and away breaking balls and its causing him to hit it to the short stop. He needs to lay off the pitch a little better. I dont claim to be a coach but this is just my observation.

P.S. Its ok to be upset at a player that is not named Ryan Theriot that plays for the Cubs LOL

CubsFanBudMan74
06-28-2008, 11:33 AM
love the guy but dahm 19 double plays is a cause for concern coming from your 3 hitter

redwhitenblue
06-28-2008, 11:35 AM
Look guys, say what you want. Get pissed at what you want but understand that as much you want to drink the cub koolaid and defend any player at all cost, Lee is grounding into way to many double plays. Thats the end of it. If you dont want to talk about it and get mad at people for stating it then you are just being that cubs fan that sox fans always talk about. The one that is always cheering on the player that is struggling and always has an excuse for all cubs players. I love DLEE and I want him to be our first baseman. The fact of the matter is Lou needs to do his job and figure out why Lee is having problems with men on base with these DP's. From what I see, he is trying to pull low and away breaking balls and its causing him to hit it to the short stop. He needs to lay off the pitch a little better. I dont claim to be a coach but this is just my observation.

P.S. Its ok to be upset at a player that is not named Ryan Theriot that plays for the Cubs LOL
And stupid people need to recognize the facts of the matter that have been stated and stop being so damn ignorant

Fact: Lee has always hit quite a few DP balls
Fact: Since Lee has been our 3 hitter, we have had **** leadoff and 2 hitter OBP's
Fact: Putting a much better leadoff/2 hitter OBP in front of him makes it inevitable the DP's will increase

It's common freaking knowledge he will have a lot of DP's, it's no shock, he's not hitting the DP ball any more than normal, it's just for the first time in his Cubs career the guys are on base in front of him more

CubsFanBudMan74
06-28-2008, 11:47 AM
And stupid people need to recognize the facts of the matter that have been stated and stop being so damn ignorant

Fact: Lee has always hit quite a few DP ballsFact: Since Lee has been our 3 hitter, we have had **** leadoff and 2 hitter OBP's
Fact: Putting a much better leadoff/2 hitter OBP in front of him makes it inevitable the DP's will increase

It's common freaking knowledge he will have a lot of DP's, it's no shock, he's not hitting the DP ball any more than normal, it's just for the first time in his Cubs career the guys are on base in front of him more

his career high is 18

19 dps half way thru season is pretty dahm high

redwhitenblue
06-28-2008, 11:58 AM
his career high is 18

19 dps half way thru season is pretty dahm high
Consider the OBP increase from past 1-2 combos in front of him


He's probably hitting them at a little higher rate, but not ridiculously higher, his chances have increased so dramatically this year however

Str1fe5
06-28-2008, 12:15 PM
Consider the OBP increase from past 1-2 combos in front of him


He's probably hitting them at a little higher rate, but not ridiculously higher, his chances have increased so dramatically this year however

That can't possibly make up for it entirely, though. Being on pace for more than twice as many GIDP's is not made up by ~.45 more average obp in front of him. That doesn't make any sense. His OBP is way down this year, so its not like he's just grounding out up the middle at the same rate and there just happens to be men being forced at second along they way more often.

bullcubbear23
06-28-2008, 12:35 PM
his career high is 18

19 dps half way thru season is pretty dahm high
and we arent even to the all-star break yet d-lee needs to be benched at least every once in a while like theriot and ramirez

CubsFanBudMan74
06-28-2008, 12:46 PM
and we arent even to the all-star break yet d-lee needs to be benched at least every once in a while like theriot and ramirez

i myself think he should be moved down the order and move rammy to 3rd

4cubs
06-28-2008, 08:45 PM
Lee had a good game today. Let's hope he has found his batting eye again.

Darwinist
06-28-2008, 09:10 PM
Good thing Lou didn't sit and rest Lee today, he had a real nice 5-5. Anyways, I took a look at the league leaders for gidp the last few years. Nice list of names. Pujols, Tejada, C.Lee, Atkins, Overbay, A.Gonzalez. It made me wonder why so many good players would lead the league in that stat. Could it be that they all bat in the middle of the line up and have guys that get on base in front of them?

Cubsfan23
06-28-2008, 10:39 PM
And stupid people need to recognize the facts of the matter that have been stated and stop being so damn ignorant

Fact: Lee has always hit quite a few DP balls
Fact: Since Lee has been our 3 hitter, we have had **** leadoff and 2 hitter OBP's
Fact: Putting a much better leadoff/2 hitter OBP in front of him makes it inevitable the DP's will increase

It's common freaking knowledge he will have a lot of DP's, it's no shock, he's not hitting the DP ball any more than normal, it's just for the first time in his Cubs career the guys are on base in front of him more

First off I dont know who you are calling stupid people but you need to relax a little bit there killer...

Fact: Lee has always hit quite a few DP balls - IT DONT MAKE IT RIGHT!!! ITS LIKE SAYING SORIANO STRIKES OUT A LOT SO ITS OK WHEN HE DOES. IM NOT OK WITH THAT.
Fact: Since Lee has been our 3 hitter, we have had **** leadoff and 2 hitter OBP's - NOT THIS YEAR AND NOW HE IS KILLING US WHEN WE FINALLY HAVE GOOD ONES. AND I WOULD NOT CALL OUR LEADOFF POSITION A GREAT OBP. SORIAN'S HAS BEEN NOTHING TO WRITE HOME ABOUT. WHEN HE WAS HURT THE FIRST TIME REED JOHNSON DID NOT HAVE A GREAT OBP BATTING IN THE ONE SPOT.
Fact: Putting a much better leadoff/2 hitter OBP in front of him makes it inevitable the DP's will increase - TRUE BUT HE IS DOUBLING HIS CAREER HIGH. THAT IS A SIGN FOR CONCERN. HE HAS BEEN KILLING RALLYS.

This being said he had a great game today lets home he can keep that up and lay off the outside breaking ball or atleast send them out towards right field instead of pulling it.

The Good Docta'
06-29-2008, 02:35 AM
Ripping on D-Lee is short-sighted and misguided IMO

Cubsfan23
06-29-2008, 12:55 PM
Well you can call it ripping on him I am just stating the facts. He leads baseball in double plays. Thats it. I am not saying he sucks. I am not saying we need to replace him. He is one of the reasons why we win a lot of the time. The fact is he grounds in a lot of double plays and his OBP is a little low this year for his potential. The power numbers are coming back so thats good. I love D Lee but he has his problems. I will point out all his good points a long with his bad. No player is protected from criticism now and again. Im just stating facts.

I hate cub fans that feel like they are betraying there team if they get upset with the way a player plays. It's why other citys make fun of cub fans.

WOwolfOL
06-29-2008, 09:08 PM
He's already set a career high this year.

ggross
06-30-2008, 05:11 PM
With all these new men getting on base in front of him this year, it's too bad his RBIs aren't doubling the way his DP totals are.

Cullksinikers
06-30-2008, 05:13 PM
The guy went 5-5 a couple days ago. Give the man a break. Yes he's grounded into a bunch of douple plays this year, but he can play very well, and that 5-5 was no luck. Derrek Lee has a ton of skill, and if he didn't, he wouldn't be the 1st basemen for the best team in the National League.

Cullksinikers
06-30-2008, 05:19 PM
If Derrek relaxes and clears his mind, has fun, and not think about his slump he'll be the hitter he was at the beginning of the year. If he does that, he'll be the hitter we all thought could be the NL MVP earlier this year. He's going through a slump and he'll come out of it. Derrek Lee is too good of a player to struggle consistently for a long period of time. He'll come out of it trust me, and he comes up with huge hits sometimes, and saves runs with his gold glove defense. Derrek Lee is not the biggest of the Cubs' problems.

4cubs
06-30-2008, 06:09 PM
Well you can call it ripping on him I am just stating the facts. He leads baseball in double plays. Thats it. I am not saying he sucks. I am not saying we need to replace him. He is one of the reasons why we win a lot of the time. The fact is he grounds in a lot of double plays and his OBP is a little low this year for his potential. The power numbers are coming back so thats good. I love D Lee but he has his problems. I will point out all his good points a long with his bad. No player is protected from criticism now and again. Im just stating facts.

I hate cub fans that feel like they are betraying there team if they get upset with the way a player plays. It's why other citys make fun of cub fans.
Well put. Good perspective.

Darwinist
06-30-2008, 10:35 PM
Well you can call it ripping on him I am just stating the facts. He leads baseball in double plays. Thats it. I am not saying he sucks. I am not saying we need to replace him. He is one of the reasons why we win a lot of the time. The fact is he grounds in a lot of double plays and his OBP is a little low this year for his potential. The power numbers are coming back so thats good. I love D Lee but he has his problems. I will point out all his good points a long with his bad. No player is protected from criticism now and again. Im just stating facts.

I hate cub fans that feel like they are betraying there team if they get upset with the way a player plays. It's why other citys make fun of cub fans.

Interesting post. If all you are doing is pointing out he has been grounding into a lot of dps, then what exactly did you expect people to say? It is a fact he leads mlb in dps.

We can sit here and dissect every player, but we don't. We only really criticize players that can/should be replaced. I could go on about Ramirez not hustling, and Soriano missing flyballs, but I won't because no one in their right mind would take them out of the lineup. The same applies to Lee. I'm not saying their untouchable, but what do you really expect people to say besides "yes, he does lead the league". Because no rational person would bench him more than occasionally.

My point being is unless someone disagrees with the thread, there would be no real dialog. Then when someone actually says "so whats your point, Lee's good, leave him alone" you get all weird about it.

Your last paragraph is laughable. Last year all I heard was how we are too hard on our players. (Jones, Patterson, Hawkins) And we drive them away. Now we are being too soft.

Theriot2
06-30-2008, 11:03 PM
He is in a slump, but he isn't the only Cubs player who is in a slump.

4cubs
07-01-2008, 02:36 PM
Interesting post. If all you are doing is pointing out he has been grounding into a lot of dps, then what exactly did you expect people to say? It is a fact he leads mlb in dps.

We can sit here and dissect every player, but we don't. We only really criticize players that can/should be replaced. I could go on about Ramirez not hustling, and Soriano missing flyballs, but I won't because no one in their right mind would take them out of the lineup. The same applies to Lee. I'm not saying their untouchable, but what do you really expect people to say besides "yes, he does lead the league". Because no rational person would bench him more than occasionally.

My point being is unless someone disagrees with the thread, there would be no real dialog. Then when someone actually says "so whats your point, Lee's good, leave him alone" you get all weird about it.

Your last paragraph is laughable. Last year all I heard was how we are too hard on our players. (Jones, Patterson, Hawkins) And we drive them away. Now we are being too soft.
I think this is all that was being asked. Occasionally bench him. He eventually works his way out of slumps, but that's not always the best way to handle it from a team's perspective.

Also, other players are disected too. Incidentally, this year Ramirez does seem to be hustling more.

windycityD
07-01-2008, 02:53 PM
If I had to list a top 5 for this team and concerns therein, D Lee would be around #7.

johnpeck22
07-01-2008, 03:43 PM
He is too streaky for "the man" on the roster - I think if the rest of our line up is clicking - we dont really need him. I know this wont go through - but lee and prospects for Sabathia and Haffner - or just bring up Micha - he was impressive and surprisingly explosive.

Doogolas
07-01-2008, 03:45 PM
He is too streaky for "the man" on the roster - I think if the rest of our line up is clicking - we dont really need him. I know this wont go through - but lee and prospects for Sabathia and Haffner - or just bring up Micha - he was impressive and surprisingly explosive.

... No... and though nothing more needs to be said, I'll say this:

If the rest of ANY lineup is clicking, you don't need any one player. Because everyone else is clicking. If everyone in the Cards lineup is clicking, they don't NEED Pujols... the Phillies don't NEED Chase Utley when everyone else is clicking. The Cubs don't need Soriano or Ramirez when everyone else is clicking, just look at last night!

Lee's glove being gone would be horrible. His bat is good, and he'll be just fine. Calm down!

giventofly
07-01-2008, 03:47 PM
He is too streaky for "the man" on the roster - I think if the rest of our line up is clicking - we dont really need him. I know this wont go through - but lee and prospects for Sabathia and Haffner - or just bring up Micha - he was impressive and surprisingly explosive.
Interesting idea.

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to trading Lee, but the comeback would have to be pretty damn good.

However, I don't think Lee has been streaky at all for the last three years. He's had about one to one and a half bad months each of the last three years or so. For me, trading him wouldn't be because I don't think he's still a great player, but because it may be one of the smartest things we could do.

Doogolas
07-01-2008, 03:50 PM
Interesting idea.

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to trading Lee, but the comeback would have to be pretty damn good.

However, I don't think Lee has been streaky at all for the last three years. He's had about one to one and a half bad months each of the last three years or so. For me, trading him wouldn't be because I don't think he's still a great player, but because it may be one of the smartest things we could do.

If anyone is wondering, here is Lee's line from June 6th-June 28th:
AVG...OBP...SLG...OPS
.347 .425 .507 .932

So really, he hasn't been sucking too much lately.

giventofly
07-01-2008, 03:52 PM
If anyone is wondering, here is Lee's line from June 6th-June 28th:
AVG...OBP...SLG...OPS
.347 .425 .507 .932

So really, he hasn't been sucking too much lately.
I think you're missing my point.

I think Derrek is a fantastic player, the absolute leader of this team. But we could get top of the line value for him, even right now in a "down" year.

However, I do think Lee is going to have a dominant second half.

Doogolas
07-01-2008, 03:59 PM
I think you're missing my point.

I think Derrek is a fantastic player, the absolute leader of this team. But we could get top of the line value for him, even right now in a "down" year.

However, I do think Lee is going to have a dominant second half.

Oh, I didn't say he's untouchable. I was just referring to the post before yours and before mine. I just happen to hit quote on yours because it was most recent. I mean, if you get the right deal, anyone should be traded.

4cubs
07-01-2008, 06:39 PM
Oh, I didn't say he's untouchable. I was just referring to the post before yours and before mine. I just happen to hit quote on yours because it was most recent. I mean, if you get the right deal, anyone should be traded.Except Theriot...

thawv
07-01-2008, 06:51 PM
Lee has grounded into 19 DP's this year.

Which by the way, leads the league. Theriot is tied for seventh, and DeRosa is tied for tenth. Not very productive.

Milnertime
07-02-2008, 03:52 AM
Which by the way, leads the league. Theriot is tied for seventh, and DeRosa is tied for tenth. Not very productive.
452 Runs....Leading the NL. Best record in the NL.

I'd say that's pretty damn productive.

Also, I'm surprised nobody looked this up but Lee's DP rate this year is 12% which is double his DP rate for his career. Before everyone tells me what I already know, I took the amount of DPs divided by ABs with runners on base.

I don't think it's something to be worried about because he's a very good hitter, but I do know he needs to start stepping it up with Aramis and Soriano gone.

croce_99
07-02-2008, 03:54 AM
452 Runs....Leading the NL. Best record in the NL.

I'd say that's pretty damn productive.

Also, I'm surprised nobody looked this up but Lee's DP rate this year is 12% which is double his DP rate for his career. Before everyone tells me what I already know, I took the amount of DPs divided by ABs with runners on base.

I don't think it's something to be worried about because he's a very good hitter, but I do know he needs to start stepping it up with Aramis and Soriano gone.

I kind of find it funny that DLee has more double plays this year already than he did the entire season last year.

Not even the all star break :sigh:
As Bob or someone mentioned in the broadcast....that means people are getting on in front of him, so I guess its not SO bad knowing we have baserunners.

behindmydesk
07-02-2008, 08:53 AM
I kind of find it funny that DLee has more double plays this year already than he did the entire season last year.

Not even the all star break :sigh:
As Bob or someone mentioned in the broadcast....that means people are getting on in front of him, so I guess its not SO bad knowing we have baserunners.

Damn you, I was reading the last page, and then I read the top of your post. I was like um, that could mean we are getting on base more then last year, that's a godo thing. Then you said it. Oh croce in your drunken Iowa state of mind, always one step ahead of me, (one step can me 5 hours)

johnpeck22
07-02-2008, 03:59 PM
... No... and though nothing more needs to be said, I'll say this:

If the rest of ANY lineup is clicking, you don't need any one player. Because everyone else is clicking. If everyone in the Cards lineup is clicking, they don't NEED Pujols... the Phillies don't NEED Chase Utley when everyone else is clicking. The Cubs don't need Soriano or Ramirez when everyone else is clicking, just look at last night!

Lee's glove being gone would be horrible. His bat is good, and he'll be just fine. Calm down!

By clicking - I didnt think u would take it as literal as everyone is hitting 400 with a 700 on base % - maybe if I put it like this it will help - I want C.C. - I look at our offense minus D. Lee, which I agree with u his glove would be missed, and I still see enough fire power to get it done- but we must get pitching and if a guy like Sabathia is around u have to try to get him! I know its not gonna happen just GM dreaming. LOL

4cubs
07-22-2008, 11:45 AM
I just thought I would resurrect this thread after last night's rally killing DP by Lee in the ninth.

Granted Ramirez is in a huge funk, but there was hope in the 9th until Lee did what Lee does best.

croce_99
07-22-2008, 11:56 AM
I just thought I would resurrect this thread after last night's rally killing DP by Lee in the ninth.

Granted Ramirez is in a huge funk, but there was hope in the 9th until Lee did what Lee does best.

Well......I will say thanks for not creating another thread :)

DLee's double play came at the worse time possible, but lets not forget the previous 8 innings of baseball, where we managed an amazing 0 runs.
The entire offense sucked last night.

scubathreefifty
07-22-2008, 12:03 PM
D. Lee, his hitting into DP's are a simple problem. He goes through these dead brain cycles where he continually tries to pull everything, but his only sucess is pulling his own *&%$. As soon as he goes with the ball, his hitting improves dramatically. I guess he has some Corey Patterson genes running through his head.....no HR's no big money!!!

Diehdcubsfan2
07-22-2008, 12:07 PM
I just thought I would resurrect this thread after last night's rally killing DP by Lee in the ninth.

Granted Ramirez is in a huge funk, but there was hope in the 9th until Lee did what Lee does best.

You probably want Lee to hit into a DP so you can tell us how smart you are. Lee did have a 2-0 count and then did swing at a pitch that jammed him inside. I have know idea why he didn't take a strike, and yes, that DP killed any possible hope of coming back.

ALBUNDY
07-22-2008, 01:21 PM
You probably want Lee to hit into a DP so you can tell us how smart you are. Lee did have a 2-0 count and then did swing at a pitch that jammed him inside. I have know idea why he didn't take a strike, and yes, that DP killed any possible hope of coming back.

Opinions. As bad as the Cubs O was last night, should DLee have bunted to move two men into scoring position? That way, you have at least two tries from Aram or Soto to get a single and tie the game and you also stay away from a DP.

Jack_Bauer
07-22-2008, 01:29 PM
Just when you think Derek has cured his double play woes, it rears its ugly head and happens at the worst possibly moment. Just have to come back today and take care of business. We've caught a break we don't have to face micah owings on the mound or at the plate. Get the win tonight and go for the series tomorrow night.

poodski
07-22-2008, 01:31 PM
Just when you think Derek has cured his double play woes, it rears its ugly head and happens at the worst possibly moment. Just have to come back today and take care of business. We've caught a break we don't have to face micah owings on the mound or at the plate. Get the win tonight and go for the series tomorrow night.

I am not sure how we caught a break missing Owings?

He has their worst ERA as a starter and is only hitting for a 710 OPS. While its a good OPS I am not sure if missing him was catching a break.

Diehdcubsfan2
07-22-2008, 01:39 PM
Opinions. As bad as the Cubs O was last night, should DLee have bunted to move two men into scoring position? That way, you have at least two tries from Aram or Soto to get a single and tie the game and you also stay away from a DP.

For a manager its really hard to bunt with your three hitter, Its like taking the bat right out of his hands. Obviously the DP was awful, but you can't go into the at bat assuming it, Lee is to good of a hitter.

Z-Knight
07-22-2008, 02:17 PM
.... Lee is to{o} good of a hitter.

as of when? The last few games I've seen he's either struck out or hit into a DP. History of being good doesn't help us much right now.

Jilly Bohnson
07-22-2008, 02:25 PM
How does this bull**** thread not constitute trolling?

Cullksinikers
07-22-2008, 02:46 PM
How about more threads with concerns for us to get concerned over our good players?

Geovany "K" Soto

Aramis "PO" Ramirez

Jack_Bauer
07-22-2008, 02:48 PM
I am not sure how we caught a break missing Owings?

He has their worst ERA as a starter and is only hitting for a 710 OPS. While its a good OPS I am not sure if missing him was catching a break. That maybe the case but knowing the cubs they'd get shut out by him and he'd throw like cy young

dbrown1225
07-22-2008, 03:07 PM
Have you ever looked at the list of the all-time GIDP leaders? I'm pretty sure half the list is Hall of Fame sluggers.

Yes you hate DP's. But if you're leading the league it usually means you're hitting the ball hard with runners on base. And you're on a good team.

Bearscubs4life
07-22-2008, 03:15 PM
Well this title was misleading.

Funny stuff:clap:

Jilly Bohnson
07-22-2008, 03:25 PM
Have you ever looked at the list of the all-time GIDP leaders? I'm pretty sure half the list is Hall of Fame sluggers.

Yes you hate DP's. But if you're leading the league it usually means you're hitting the ball hard with runners on base. And you're on a good team.

Shhhhh....your logic and levelheadedness has no place in a thread this intelligent. BTW, here's the top 20 GIDP leaders from 07:

Carlos Lee
Albert Pujols
Brandon Phillips
Ryan Zimmerman
Matt Holliday
Mark Teahen
Delmon Young
Miguel Tejada
Melvin Mora
Kenji Johjima
Nick Markakis
Manny Ramirez
Chipper Jones
Derek Jeter
Jose Vidro
Paul Konerko
AJ Pierzynski
Michael Young
Orlando Hudson
Aaron Hill

Obviously a DP is a bad thing, but it's often an unfortunate side effect of being a good hitter, much like like striking out a ton.

Diehdcubsfan2
07-22-2008, 03:55 PM
as of when? The last few games I've seen he's either struck out or hit into a DP. History of being good doesn't help us much right now.

Lee is struggling a bit of late, mostly a little before the All-star game. Lets not hop off the wagon because he has hit into a few DP's. Lee is a good hitter and he will produce, and once he does I'm sure everyone will like him again. Also it's not just Lee it's also Ramirez, Fukudome, Soto. They all are struggling, lets not blame it all on Lee. Lee is a good hitter.

Z-Knight
07-22-2008, 03:57 PM
Lee is struggling a bit of late, mostly a little before the All-star game. Lets not hop off the wagon because he has hit into a few DP's. Lee is a good hitter and he will produce, and once he does I'm sure everyone will like him again. Also it's not just Lee it's also Ramirez, Fukudome, Soto. They all are struggling, lets not blame it all on Lee. Lee is a good hitter.

Absolutely, but it just feels like every time he's been on lately with critical situations he's not performed....just an observation and I pray to God it gets fixed soon.

behindmydesk
07-22-2008, 04:17 PM
Shhhhh....your logic and levelheadedness has no place in a thread this intelligent. BTW, here's the top 20 GIDP leaders from 07:

Carlos Lee
Albert Pujols
Brandon Phillips
Ryan Zimmerman
Matt Holliday
Mark Teahen
Delmon Young
Miguel Tejada
Melvin Mora
Kenji Johjima
Nick Markakis
Manny Ramirez
Chipper Jones
Derek Jeter
Jose Vidro
Paul Konerko
AJ Pierzynski
Michael Young
Orlando Hudson
Aaron Hill

Obviously a DP is a bad thing, but it's often an unfortunate side effect of being a good hitter, much like like striking out a ton.

It's also a huge function of having runners on alot when you come up.

captainatheism
07-22-2008, 04:57 PM
Ha. never saw this coming.

redwhitenblue
07-22-2008, 06:36 PM
How does this bull**** thread not constitute trolling?
+1

BUD Bleachers
07-22-2008, 07:08 PM
Whenever you get pissed off at D-Lee for hitting into a DP, just think of all the times he's bailed the Cubs out with great plays at 1B (Web Gems), all the while picking those brutal throws out of the dirt from Theriot and Ramirez on a daily basis.

It'll take the edge off, trust me. The positives far out-weigh the negatives.

croce_99
07-22-2008, 07:20 PM
How does this bull**** thread not constitute trolling?

Trolling:
Messages intended solely to annoy and/or offend other users by going against the clear nature of a board.

Everyone has made a comment about Lee and his Double Plays this year. I don't see it as trolling.

cubsbears1225
07-22-2008, 08:13 PM
How does this bull**** thread not constitute trolling?

Because this is becoming a problem with Lee.

Z-Knight
07-22-2008, 08:31 PM
Whenever you get pissed off at D-Lee for hitting into a DP, just think of all the times he's bailed the Cubs out with great plays at 1B (Web Gems), all the while picking those brutal throws out of the dirt from Theriot and Ramirez on a daily basis.

It'll take the edge off, trust me. The positives far out-weigh the negatives.

VERY GOOD POINT...thank you, I feel a bit better, not much but a bit. I just wish he would return to even half of what he was at the beginning of the season...crap, I wish everyone would return to at least half of what they were so we could start winning again instead of whining again.

Cullksinikers
07-22-2008, 09:06 PM
UH OH, DERREK LEE IS STARTING TONIGHT! HE'S GOING TO GROUND INTO 6 DOUBLE PLAYS AND KILL 4 RALLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY LOU, WHY?!

...................................

Like BUD Bleachers said, he saves runs with his glove, and I think he'll ruen it around, this thread was dead for a week, and then it sprung up again because of D-Lee's DP in the 9th. Quiet D-Lee haters, you know he's good when he's on, and he'll be on very soon.

Jilly Bohnson
07-22-2008, 09:25 PM
Trolling:
Messages intended solely to annoy and/or offend other users by going against the clear nature of a board.

Everyone has made a comment about Lee and his Double Plays this year. I don't see it as trolling.

The bolded part is exactly what this is. He grounds into his first double play in 3 weeks and like clockwork this thread get's bumped and resurrected from the dead. The original thread isn't necessarily trolling if you ask me, but bumping it after 3 weeks sure is. If this were like the thread "Ramirez's Slump" there wouldn't be an issue here, but this is like if someone created a "Wood sucks" thread, and bumped it every time he blew a save and went "Oh gee, look at that, he's sucking again."

Z-Knight
07-22-2008, 11:26 PM
Brewer Trolls.....I wish they'd stick to their own loser forum.

Brewersin08
07-22-2008, 11:57 PM
QUOTE=Z-Knight;5966385]Brewer Trolls.....I wish they'd stick to their own loser forum.[/QUOTE]

:moon:[

hoggin88
07-23-2008, 12:52 AM
Brewersin08, touche man. There's just no comeback for a mooning smiley face. Congratulations.

And I'm personally alright with the fact that DLee is batting .348 this month with a .403 OBP. It's just a little better than his .234 and .269 in May. Despite the dp's, I think we can officially get off the .301 hitting, gold glove 1B's back.

4cubs
07-23-2008, 01:49 PM
The bolded part is exactly what this is. He grounds into his first double play in 3 weeks and like clockwork this thread get's bumped and resurrected from the dead. The original thread isn't necessarily trolling if you ask me, but bumping it after 3 weeks sure is. If this were like the thread "Ramirez's Slump" there wouldn't be an issue here, but this is like if someone created a "Wood sucks" thread, and bumped it every time he blew a save and went "Oh gee, look at that, he's sucking again."The thread wasn't created to annoy anyone. The thread may annoy you, but Lee's DPs annoy me as a fan.

Although it might technically be 3 weeks between DPs (I'm taking your word for this), there was a week off for the all star break.

He did it again last night after your response.

Lee IS NOT the only problem the Cubs are having now. Ramirez and Soto are flailing badly. We didn't lose last night by one run either, but momentum and attitude can change when a rally is killed by the DP.

The players must also be thinking 'here we go again' when it happens.

Your Name Here
07-23-2008, 01:58 PM
Although it might technically be 3 weeks between DPs (I'm taking your word for this), there was a week off for the all star break.

4 days = 1 week.


I love Nu Math.

Cub_StuckinSTL
07-23-2008, 02:02 PM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229710

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135487

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111216

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21657

Why do you hate him?

mawp
07-23-2008, 02:12 PM
I'm telling you, DLee must have fornicated with one of his family members. Probably his mother or sister.

hoggin88
07-23-2008, 02:24 PM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229710

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135487

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111216

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21657

Why do you hate him?

Wow, judging from those links - he really does hate D Lee. You'd think there would be better things to worry about from time to time...

Cullksinikers
07-23-2008, 11:47 PM
Hmm did you see that really long double play in the left center bleachers in the 1st inning?

CubsRule08
07-23-2008, 11:47 PM
Hmm did you see that really long double play in the left center bleachers in the 1st inning?

If he keeps that up, we should trade him :D

4cubs
07-29-2008, 01:19 AM
Congratulations to Lee for coming up with the big bases loaded hit tonight against the Brewers in the 9th.

He did, however, choke as per normal earlier with the bases loaded. He hit a sure inning ending double play if not for the poor throw of Ricky Weeks bailing him out. We scored 2 runs instead of inning over.

This could have (and should have) ended with a much different result.

Maybe his 9th inning heroics will be the turning point of his DP troubles. I sure hope so.

mawp
07-29-2008, 09:30 AM
Game winning RBI in National League:

12 - Princess Fielder
11 - DP Lee, and 6-8 others

cubswoo
07-29-2008, 10:16 AM
Good hitters ground into double plays it's a fact.
Career GIDP leaders
1. Cal Ripken Jr 350
2. Hank Aaron 328
3. Carl Yastrzemski 323
4. Dave Winfield 319
5. Eddie Murray 316

Hopefully Derrek can ground into some more double plays. He's have a good shot at the hall of fame.

Jilly Bohnson
07-29-2008, 12:28 PM
Oh my god, we're now bumping this thread for "near double plays" too, what's next, any time he hits a ground ball with men on base?

behindmydesk
07-29-2008, 12:40 PM
Heck yea Jilly. Wait till he hits a fly ball, with men on base, and it doesn't go out.

ggross
07-29-2008, 12:43 PM
Heck yea Jilly. Wait till he hits a fly ball, with men on base, and it doesn't go out.

Or worse yet, if the caught fly is then thrown to home to double up a tagging runner. That would be just like that choker, DLee to do that.

Jilly Bohnson
07-29-2008, 12:45 PM
If he bumps this thread for a strikeout-throwout DP or for a "Should be a sac fly but the OFer made an amazing throw" DP I think I might go ballistic.

Edit: Damn, ggross beat me to it.

Cullksinikers
07-29-2008, 01:42 PM
Because of Reed Johnson's hustle, things worked out. If teams put the ball in play, good things will happen. The Cubs got a break on that play. By the way, Lee helped us get a win in the top of the 9th with that RBI double.

BDawk4Prez
07-29-2008, 04:28 PM
Because of Reed Johnson's hustle, things worked out. If teams put the ball in play, good things will happen. The Cubs got a break on that play. By the way, Lee helped us get a win in the top of the 9th with that RBI double.

Yeah , but he still sucks....... :DLOL

Cullksinikers
07-29-2008, 04:49 PM
Yeah , but he still sucks....... :DLOL

Any guy who is a gold glover and a clutch hitter is bad in my books. :rolleyes:

BDawk4Prez
07-29-2008, 04:52 PM
Any guy who is a gold glover and a clutch hitter is bad in my books. :rolleyes:

I agree, who needs that type of stigma in the clubhouse.

mawp
07-29-2008, 04:52 PM
I wish this thread would just ****ing die@!

Jilly Bohnson
07-29-2008, 10:30 PM
That groundout Lee had in the 9th would have been a double play if there was a guy on first base. What a piece of ****.

Cub_StuckinSTL
07-29-2008, 10:50 PM
That groundout Lee had in the 9th would have been a double play if there was a guy on first base. What a piece of ****.

JB why? I mean come on now :p

giventofly
07-29-2008, 11:10 PM
This really doesn't need to be open anymore.