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View Full Version : Jason Bay!!! More Than Just Forum Talk



laxman1017
06-26-2008, 07:01 PM
Alright guys...this is from Mlbtraderumor.com....I have tried to get this movement going on the forum....and most people have been on board. It is now more than just JM and I talking this up....read below:

"The Braves have shifted their focus from starting pitching to an impact bat in left field. Stark suggests Raul Ibanez, Jason Bay, and Xavier Nady would make sense. Matt Holliday would be too costly; Adam Dunn is not mentioned"

#16-McCann-#16
06-26-2008, 07:55 PM
i say we try 2 get grady sizemore....he is everything we need..leadoff,power,speed,and awesome defense

laxman1017
06-26-2008, 08:17 PM
Alright guys...Sizemore is great....but on this post I don't just want to be lobbing out dream trades. I have run down a few times why I think Bay is our best option....if you want someone else, then tell me WHY and HOW. What is their contract situation, who would we give, why would they want those players, and then how long do we control this player...and how do they fit into our long-term plans. No dream trades....or crazy "sign Barry Bonds" comments :)

Atl_Takeover
06-26-2008, 08:19 PM
I really dont think we have the players to get Jason Bay....I really like Raul Ibanez even though he is not having a great year we may be albe to get him without giving up too much.

CrippledRam
06-26-2008, 09:03 PM
I say Bay #1, Nady #2, Ibanez #3.

nps6724
06-26-2008, 10:20 PM
All it says is we are looking for a LF bat. Bay, Holliday, Ibanez, and Nady are suggestions from the author, nothing more.

jmtapia
06-27-2008, 12:36 AM
i say we try 2 get grady sizemore....he is everything we need..leadoff,power,speed,and awesome defense

no way we get Sizemore....not even worth trying.

robdizzle3
06-27-2008, 12:37 AM
Very true nps but if it were true I think we do have the pieces togo and get him and I bet he would love to come here like everyone else does.Nady would also be my second pick and he would come cheap as well.I want us to have someone that is gonna play well but we dont know if Ibanez will so I would probably pass on him unless he comes cheap

jmtapia
06-27-2008, 12:39 AM
I really dont think we have the players to get Jason Bay....I really like Raul Ibanez even though he is not having a great year we may be albe to get him without giving up too much.

why would we...we have two great trade chips in BJ and Lilli and we have pitching and OF prospects to die for. We definelty have the MLB ready players or prospects to make this deal happen.

The question is do we have the GM to make this deal??????

jmtapia
06-27-2008, 12:44 AM
All it says is we are looking for a LF bat. Bay, Holliday, Ibanez, and Nady are suggestions from the author, nothing more.

well exactly the players he mentioned are the players most rumored so its fair territory to believe the braves are inquiring about these players.

Humongo
06-27-2008, 01:22 AM
Raul!!!

jmtapia
06-27-2008, 01:36 AM
^^^why bc you want to get rid of him?????

bigmj
06-27-2008, 08:13 AM
I like Jason Bay, and at 29 he is still young enough to be in a Braves uniform for more than a few years.
But my draw-back to him is his batting average, power production, rbi's have dropped significantly over the past couple seasons. Though this years numbers are projected out as an increase.
Maybe it is playing in Pittsburgh, maybe he is on the decline...though he would still be an upgrade to our current left field situation.

lavell12
06-27-2008, 09:07 AM
i say we try 2 get grady sizemore....he is everything we need..leadoff,power,speed,and awesome defense

we have the next sizemore and he is starting to tear it up at Missippii, hitting over .350 in his last 15 games.

lavell12
06-27-2008, 09:09 AM
I like Jason Bay, and at 29 he is still young enough to be in a Braves uniform for more than a few years.
But my draw-back to him is his batting average, power production, rbi's have dropped significantly over the past couple seasons. Though this years numbers are projected out as an increase.
Maybe it is playing in Pittsburgh, maybe he is on the decline...though he would still be an upgrade to our current left field situation.

i'd do bay if we sign him long term even if it means giving up on teixeira b/c bay will be cheaper.

CrippledRam
06-27-2008, 10:57 AM
i'd do bay if we sign him long term even if it means giving up on teixeira b/c bay will be cheaper.

We can easily afford both.

tomno00
06-27-2008, 11:20 AM
we need to get bay on this team, we need a legit LF if we want to make the playoffs this year

rtgthree
06-27-2008, 11:24 AM
Alright guys...this is from Mlbtraderumor.com....I have tried to get this movement going on the forum....and most people have been on board. It is now more than just JM and I talking this up....read below:

"The Braves have shifted their focus from starting pitching to an impact bat in left field. Stark suggests Raul Ibanez, Jason Bay, and Xavier Nady would make sense. Matt Holliday would be too costly; Adam Dunn is not mentioned"

All three of those (Ibanez, Bay, Nady) would be worthwhile choices.

Ibanez isn't really an "impact bat", and he's a liability on defense. But he's still a solid if unspectacular hitter and will cost the least of the three, perhaps by far. The other plus in my mind is that he will be a free agent after this season, which means he'll bring at least one if not two picks for the '09 draft, where we will already have about five or six picks in the first round.

Bay is the big name on this list, and he's backing up that reputation with a pretty monster year in Pittsburgh. His knees appear to be fully recovered, though that will remain a concern for him. His contract is friendly as well (he's due $7.5MM in 2009 before he becomes a free agent). The only downside here is that he will be the most expensive of the three to acquire.

Nady is an interesting pick, in that he seems to have taken a huge step forward this year. He walked 23 times in 470 plate appearances last year. This year he's already walked 21 times in just 274 PAs. That's paid dividends not only in OBP, but also in power (he's being more selective and driving more pitches). It's sort of unlikely that he's making any kind of leap at age 29, but the improvement may mean that he's got some upside and is a little underrated. The risk is that the Pirates ask too much for him because he's having a career year so far, and then he comes to Atlanta and returns to his usual ways, which make him an excellent bench guy but not really a great everyday player. He's got two or three more years of arbitration, so he's also fairly controllable, despite his age.

Grady Sizemore is out of the question for those who are wondering. Cleveland has no interest in dealing him. And yes, we do have the minor-league talent to get any of these deals done.

Here's my concern though: I'm not sure the acquisition of a left fielder fixes our offensive woes. Frenchy is killing us in right field, but getting Jason Bay doesn't solve that problem for us (because we all know Cox will run Francoeur out there every day until he can't hold a bat anymore). Kotsay will be back soon to take over in center again, and he'll provide a lot more stability than Gregor Blanco. On top of all that, Brandon Jones is finally showing off his talent. Personally, I think he was sort of bored at AAA, which led to the poor performance. Obviously there's a month yet before the trade deadline, but I sure hope they give BJ a chance to win the job. I have no problem with an outfield of B. Jones, Kotsay and now-that-I-have-contacts-I-can-hit-at-night Francoeur.

lavell12
06-27-2008, 01:13 PM
Here is my offer:

Brent Lillbridge, Gorsky Hernandez, and Cody Johnson.

Brandon Jones has been talked about but he is only rated high b/c he is in the mlb while Hernandez has much more of an upside and the Pirates are going to be looking for that but for the Braves we already have Schafer and Heyward as OF futrue. Lillibridge is a decent prospect and the Pirates had him before and Cody Johnson has the raw skills so maybe him.

I don't want to give away either Hanson or Rouhbough but if either must go it is Roughbough.

I'd go with this lineup for the rest of the season.

1 Kotsay CF
2 Escobar SS
3 Jones 3B
4 Teixeira 1B
5 McCann C
6 Bay LF
7 Johnson 2B
8 Francoeur RF

With maybe johnson and kotsay switching.

tomno00
06-27-2008, 01:14 PM
how can you be "sort of bored" at AAA when your one shot away from making the big leagues? that just doesnt make sense to me... bj got off the a hot start, but he will tail off just like blanco has done. we have plenty of unnessesary chips that we can trade away, so i think we should at least take a shot of one of those 3

tomno00
06-27-2008, 01:16 PM
Here is my offer:

Brent Lillbridge, Gorsky Hernandez, and Cody Johnson.

Brandon Jones has been talked about but he is only rated high b/c he is in the mlb while Hernandez has much more of an upside and the Pirates are going to be looking for that but for the Braves we already have Schafer and Heyward as OF futrue. Lillibridge is a decent prospect and the Pirates had him before and Cody Johnson has the raw skills so maybe him.

I don't want to give away either Hanson or Rouhbough but if either must go it is Roughbough.

I'd go with this lineup for the rest of the season.

1 Kotsay CF
2 Escobar SS
3 Jones 3B
4 Teixeira 1B
5 McCann C
6 Bay LF
7 Johnson 2B
8 Francoeur RF

With maybe johnson and kotsay switching.


i would not trade gorsky for sure... im tired of not having a leadoff hitter.

Bravesman11
06-27-2008, 01:30 PM
i would not trade gorsky for sure... im tired of not having a leadoff hitter.

So are the Pirates. That sounds like a package they would be interested in.

laxman1017
06-27-2008, 01:31 PM
Level12, I like the way you are thinking....I am fine with the guys you mentioned, but the Pirates may not be. B.Jones and Clint Sammons can be thrown into that mix as guys that are pretty expendable, and I'm sure there are a few guys with "upside" that the braves could package as well. Bottom line is there is PLENTY of options to let the Pirates take their pick.

RTG, to respond to your comment....I agree, the Bay aquisition may not solve all of our problems...but it sure as hell helps. You can also use it to go to Tex and tell him that we are commited to winning, and by signing him and Tex....they are the core we want to build around. I think a 2008/2009 lineup of:

Jordan
Esco
Chipper
Tex
Bay
Mccann
Frenchy
Kelly

Is as good of a lineup we can ask for, with giving up the least. That is a mixture of old guys and young guys....then we use what money we have left from liberty to get pitching....and we'll talk about that after the Bay deal goes down. I agree with you, we have the pieces...but I think it definately makes us a better team, and now is the time to get this guy, when he is 29

rtgthree
06-27-2008, 05:35 PM
laxman, a Jason Bay acquisition has absolutely ZERO bearing on Mark Teixeira's decision to resign. His choice is based on exactly one thing...money. And acquiring Jason Bay actually probably takes away money that we could potentially offer Tex rather than helping the situation. It doesn't matter anyway, as Tex will leave following this season regardless.

The other thing is that you claim that a Bay acquisition "sure as hell helps". In a way, I am going to have to disagree on that point. Will Jason Bay make the offense better? Definitely, just like Mark Teixeira did last year. But ultimately, Tex's acquisition (in the context of last year) made absolutely no difference because we didn't make the playoffs. This is a pretty lame-sounding analogy, but it works: Getting to the playoffs is like running a marathon. Bay would certainly get us closer to 26 miles, but he won't get us all the way. And in baseball, no one cares that you tried unless you actually finish the race. So what would happen is that you'd wind up sacrificing a bunch of young talent so that you could make it 23 miles instead of 18. But that still isn't good enough. See my point?

tomno, it's very possible for players to get "bored" in the minor leagues. They're like smart kids in school who get C's because they just aren't being challenged. It happens. Maybe it doesn't make sense to YOU, but for these guys that are super-talented and have been hyped their whole lives, it's not a stretch to believe that they get disinterested at times.

But even if that's not the case, don't even try to attempt a comparison between Blanco and Jones. They aren't even in the same league as far as talent goes. Blanco has never really been a "prospect" per se, and even the BEST of projections pegged him to be a fourth outfielder (and it looks like that's exactly what he'll be). Jones, on the other hand, has been on the prospect radar for a couple years now, ranking high in the Braves system every step of the way. There is absolutely NO doubt that he has the potential to be a solid if unspectacular everyday left fielder who can pop 20-25 homers a year and swipe at least that many bags. Now he probably won't hit .310/.356/.476 all year long, but there's little reason to believe he's inevitably going to wilt in a major role like Blanco has. I'm not totally opposed to giving up Jones in the right deal, but I hardly think he has to be disposed of.

Personally, I'm in favor of trading for pitching (perhaps a starter and a reliever) and letting BJ take over in left field. I'm not sold on Jurrjens, Campillo, Reyes and Morton ALL keeping up their performance, and I also don't know that Mike Gonzalez is much more than a setup man at this point. With Rafael Soriano out indefinitely, I think we have more use for a closer than a left fielder.

laxman1017
06-27-2008, 05:56 PM
Well that is the point I guess, discussion. Almost everyone on here is in agreement that our offense needs help....now, and in the future. Jason Bay unquestionably fixes that immediately. If you are thinking that Brandon Jones is going to be a legit outfielder....he probably will.....be EXACTLY he same middle-of-the-road talent we have right now. If you are ok with that....then fine. No question on your point that we need pitching...but my point is that we have a about $50 million dollar available at season's end. Jason Bay fits for NUMEROUS reasons. His contract is 100% reasonable, as long as when we trade him...we sign him to an extension. That makes it a long tearm solution for us....therefore (to use your maration analogy) we take a swig of water to get some fresh legs, and make a push for the finish line. BUT even if we come up short at the finish line....we have put in the training and have the stamina to win the NEXT RACE. Trading away players who are blocked...and possibly will ROT in the minors, like Sammons, Lilly, or B.Jones himself....is good baseball, and what mid-market teams need to do to be competitive. I would never think to go after a guy like Manny Ramirez, or someone who is towards the end of their career.....but for Jason Bay. It makes sense, as he is a proven gamer that has flown under the radar a little bit...keeping his cost relatively low for the return.

To your other point....it may not have one to do with the other if we sign Jason Bay. But I think going to Tex and making it known you want him in our future is smart. All this "no contract talk during the year" is crap. We need to switch our thinking if we want this guy.....which it is not guaranteed that we do. BUT resigning him for 20mil....paying our arbirtation guys...and dealing for Bay and signing him to an extension....is still within our budget, possible with prospects, and in my oppinion......a smart and logical use of prospects that are at the height of their value, and at a low for the braves in terms of usefullness (with Esco, BMac, and B.Jones just being flat out mediocre)

And maybe Tex is gone after this year....he probably is....but don't just write it off until you hear people lobbing out bids. 3 months ago no one said Giambi would resign...and now it looks like he just might. A lot can change....but a trade for Jason Bay, and a run for the playoffs, might make it a little harder to just chase the dollars

And lastly...on pitching. I agree that I don't believe all of those guys (JJ, Campillo, ect.) will keep up their performance. But right now, our pitching has been pretty decent. Our LF play has not been (or RF for that matter)....make the Bay deal, and then see how the starting pitching shakes out. Then in the off-season address the need with the left over money. That is my opinion as well. Gonzo and Sori are fine in the billpen WHEN HEALTHY...give it some time....I wouldn't just to a move on that front.

rtgthree
06-27-2008, 06:16 PM
I don't disagree for a half-second that our offense needs help now, but there's no need for help in the future, with Gorkys Hernandez, Jordan Schafer and Jason Heyward looking like they could easily be baseball's best outfield by about 2011. If you're putting Brandon Jones' ceiling equal to the guys we're using now (Gregor Blanco, Josh Anderson, Greg Norton), you are gravely mistaken. Jones is probably a middle-of-the-road outfielder, an everyday player but not an All-Star. Blanco, Anderson and Norton aren't anywhere CLOSE to "middle-of-the-road". They're barely even replacement-level. There's nothing replacement-level about a 20/20 left fielder.

Trading for Bay is a win-now move, and we need pitching NOW if we want to be in win-now mode. So addressing the rotation at season's end when you have all this free cash doesn't work. You need pitching help immediately if you want the Bay acquisition to mean anything at all. Then you're even going so far as to assume that Bay is going to sign some kind of extension, which is shaky at best. He may be just like Teixeira and want to hit the free agent market. If you trade for him, you have to assume that he will be a Brave for 2008 and 2009 and no further.

There's nothing wrong with trading blocked prospects, but here's the thing. Sammons has no trade value (maybe you haven't looked at his AAA stats lately). Brent Lillibridge is nominally blocked, but there's still a chance that he's the better long-term player than Yunel Escobar and trading him now would be selling low. And Jones is hardly blocked...we don't have anyone else to take over left field. I don't know where you get the idea that his cost will be low either. If he's truly on the market, there will be plenty of bidders for his services and he's cheap enough that the Bucs don't have to trade him.\

As for Tex, the "no contract talk during the year" is Tex's decision, not that of the Braves' front office. The last thing he wants is to preempt the bidding war that's bound to take place this winter. He wants to test the waters and the Braves are going to drown. So the Yankees might resign Giambi, but that still leaves the Orioles, Angels, Dodgers, and Mets. And who says the Bronx Bombers don't have the money for BOTH Giambi and Tex?!

So it totally depends on what the final price is, but there is just as much chance that a potential acquisition of Jason Bay is dumb as there is that it is smart.

BravesBackOnTop
06-27-2008, 06:45 PM
Trading for Bay is a win-now move, and we need pitching NOW if we want to be in win-now mode. So addressing the rotation at season's end when you have all this free cash doesn't work. You need pitching help immediately if you want the Bay acquisition to mean anything at all. Then you're even going so far as to assume that Bay is going to sign some kind of extension, which is shaky at best. He may be just like Teixeira and want to hit the free agent market. If you trade for him, you have to assume that he will be a Brave for 2008 and 2009 and no further.

How can you say we need pitching help??? Our pitching is doing fine and impressing alot of people. Our offense is to blame for our poor start. The bullpen can be blamed for blowing a lot of games but we arent scoring much in games anyways. Not the starting pitching though.

David O'Brien points out


That’s why it’s so surprising, even amazing, to see the Braves with a league-best 3.69 ERA today, and their injury-ravaged rotation with a league-best 3.88 ERA. Even the depleted bullpen, without Rafael Soriano and Peter Moylan, ranks third in the NL with a 3.37 ERA. People, the Braves have the best ERA in the NL, with a starting rotation currently combrised of Tim Hudson and guys named Jo-Jo, Jorge, Jair and Charlie. If anyone had told you that was possible in February, you’d have asked what they were smoking — or told them to go watch more Euro2008 “football.”

The pitchers are performing. I say we get that bat now and immediately. We NEED another power bat anyways. AS much as I love chipper, we cannot count on him to be there through the long stretch coming up. And we CANNOT do it without a bat like chippers. Not going to happen unless Jeff starts hitting like he can and McCann keeps going. We got to pray for no more injuries to anyone else too if he's down. So, we need to get another bat. Point Blank. Maybe we can do it without a bat, but we got to stop waiting and act. The braves want to WIN now. Why do you think we traded all those prospects away to the rangers for Tex? We arent going to let that go to waste and Wren is going to do what it takes to make this team even better so we can get to the playoffs. Hopefully he's smart about it.

robdizzle3
06-27-2008, 07:09 PM
We may need to get a bullpen arm right along with gettin Bay or Nady because we need someone to set-up Gonzo and right now we dont have a sure answer and we are gonna need one down the stretch when the race gets tighter

THE_FLASH_21
06-27-2008, 08:19 PM
The other plus in my mind is that he will be a free agent after this season, which means he'll bring at least one if not two picks for the '09 draft, where we will already have about five or six picks in the first round.

.

REALLY????? 5 or 6 picks in the 1st round?? WHY???

lavell12
06-27-2008, 08:40 PM
We may need to get a bullpen arm right along with gettin Bay or Nady because we need someone to set-up Gonzo and right now we dont have a sure answer and we are gonna need one down the stretch when the race gets tighter

i def agree

jmtapia
06-27-2008, 09:42 PM
Here is my offer:

Brent Lillbridge, Gorsky Hernandez, and Cody Johnson.

Brandon Jones has been talked about but he is only rated high b/c he is in the mlb while Hernandez has much more of an upside and the Pirates are going to be looking for that but for the Braves we already have Schafer and Heyward as OF futrue. Lillibridge is a decent prospect and the Pirates had him before and Cody Johnson has the raw skills so maybe him.

I don't want to give away either Hanson or Rouhbough but if either must go it is Roughbough.

I'd go with this lineup for the rest of the season.

1 Kotsay CF
2 Escobar SS
3 Jones 3B
4 Teixeira 1B
5 McCann C
6 Bay LF
7 Johnson 2B
8 Francoeur RF

With maybe johnson and kotsay switching.

Im 100% against trading Gorkys. We finally get a dynamic player that can lead off, steal bases, play the OF and is coming around with power. I dont see the Braves packaging Gorkys until they are sure that Schafer will pan out the way they expect him too.

Cody has no trade value at the moment. He strikes out in about 50% of his AB in ROME. The Pirates are also going to want pitching. More then likely they take either one of Morton, Hanson, CR or Locke. I also see the Pirates going after Mejia, Hicks or Owings.

A trade with them would most likely include BJ and Liili to start. BJ could take Bays spot in the OF.

Saltyfan
06-27-2008, 11:28 PM
Gorky is off limits. He is the future in Center. I think Schafer will be moved to left when Gorkys comes up. Till then Schafer will be center field.
Gorkys, Schafer, Heyward will one day be the best in Baseball.

jmtapia
06-27-2008, 11:39 PM
^^^I think Schafer will play CF in the future. Gorkys will start in LF/RF. Schafer is a wizard out in CF and a gold glover in the future.

Saltyfan
06-27-2008, 11:48 PM
^^^I think Schafer will play CF in the future. Gorkys will start in LF/RF. Schafer is a wizard out in CF and a gold glover in the future.
Really. I just figured with Gorkys speed he would be CF. Either way. it is going to be really nice. They are huge upgrade over.
BJ, Blanco/Kotsay,Francoeur.

jmtapia
06-27-2008, 11:54 PM
^^^yeah but Schafer is a stud in CF. Gorkys is a dynamic player with star potential but i think Schafer is better in terms of Defense.

Frenchy is 23 and has a ton more potential and natural talent then Gorkys or Schafer. Give him time. In a couple years people will be begging that we keep him.

robdizzle3
06-28-2008, 12:15 AM
^ I think we should and are going to kee him because of his upside and the fact that he is only 23 and has been producing greatly for the past two years but this is justnot his year as of late

THE_FLASH_21
06-28-2008, 10:50 AM
^^^yeah but Schafer is a stud in CF. Gorkys is a dynamic player with star potential but i think Schafer is better in terms of Defense.

Frenchy is 23 and has a ton more potential and natural talent then Gorkys or Schafer. Give him time. In a couple years people will be begging that we keep him.

Yeah i'm in the camp to keep Frenchy....

braves790
06-28-2008, 12:11 PM
I'm in the camp with trading his ***** ***!

Bravesman11
06-28-2008, 01:01 PM
^^^yeah but Schafer is a stud in CF. Gorkys is a dynamic player with star potential but i think Schafer is better in terms of Defense.

Frenchy is 23 and has a ton more potential and natural talent then Gorkys or Schafer. Give him time. In a couple years people will be begging that we keep him.

I hate that word, potential. Francoeur has shown that can hit near .300 and he has shown he can hit near 30 HR, but he's not producing either of them. How exactly is he going to be better in a couple of years? What is it he is going to do that makes him stinking up right field RIGHT NOW worth it?

rtgthree
06-28-2008, 02:17 PM
How can you say we need pitching help??? Our pitching is doing fine and impressing alot of people. Our offense is to blame for our poor start. The bullpen can be blamed for blowing a lot of games but we arent scoring much in games anyways. Not the starting pitching though.

David O'Brien points out



The pitchers are performing. I say we get that bat now and immediately. We NEED another power bat anyways. AS much as I love chipper, we cannot count on him to be there through the long stretch coming up. And we CANNOT do it without a bat like chippers. Not going to happen unless Jeff starts hitting like he can and McCann keeps going. We got to pray for no more injuries to anyone else too if he's down. So, we need to get another bat. Point Blank. Maybe we can do it without a bat, but we got to stop waiting and act. The braves want to WIN now. Why do you think we traded all those prospects away to the rangers for Tex? We arent going to let that go to waste and Wren is going to do what it takes to make this team even better so we can get to the playoffs. Hopefully he's smart about it.

Yeah, the pitchers are performing. But you don't really think that junkballer Jorge Campillo is going to keep his 3.15 ERA all season, do you? Morton, Jurrjens and Reyes are all rookies, and they're all prone to poor streaks at any time (just like any other young player). If we truly want to be big-time contenders, another starting pitcher would really help.

Also, this idea that the Braves "need to stop waiting and act" doesn't really fly. Nothing is going to get done this minute...all the dealing gets done much closer to the trade deadline. All the teams that are selling are going to wait as long as they can to get as many possible bidders involved. It isn't the Braves who are waiting around to make the deal they need to make.

Finally, I'm not saying we don't need a power bat, because that would be great. But I don't think that a power bat alone is going to get the job done. The pitching is going to need some bolstering before it's all said and done.

jmtapia
06-28-2008, 02:55 PM
I hate that word, potential. Francoeur has shown that can hit near .300 and he has shown he can hit near 30 HR, but he's not producing either of them. How exactly is he going to be better in a couple of years? What is it he is going to do that makes him stinking up right field RIGHT NOW worth it?

Its called AGE. usually players get better with age. Frenchy is just 24. His prime is at least 3 years from now. Other OF like him are struggling as well, check Young, Hermedia, Pence and others.

We just need to be patient. He will turn it around he just needs to get over the mental blocks. Sports are based on potential. Players get drafter based on this principal. Not every one pans out. But in Frenchy's case producing on pace for 40+ 2B, 20 HR and 100 RBIs make me feel comfortable bc once he figures things out he will be a monster at the plate.

Sure he will never have an OBP higher then .350 but i expect his SLG to get a lot better. Frenchy has proven he can hit for power (29 HR) he can hit for average (.300+) last year...and IMO he will prove again he can get over this hump and have a great 2nd half.

Bravefan29
06-28-2008, 03:27 PM
What about sending some prospects to the Cardinals for say Rick Ankiel and Mitchell Boggs(who is from Georgia) or maybe a Brad Thompson, we could get a Left Fielder who has shown to be a good producer since he stopped pitching in 2004 and he is fairly cheap and the same age as Bay.
Ankiel has a somewhat low average but TP could probably help with that has 14 Homers with 35 RBI's. I would think this could definitely help the Braves, what does everyone think He could be a much cheaper option then really anyone else I have heard here...thoughts.

jmtapia
06-28-2008, 03:44 PM
I'm in the camp with trading his ***** ***!

and thats bc you have very little knowledge about a players development and trade value.

jmtapia
06-28-2008, 03:47 PM
What about sending some prospects to the Cardinals for say Rick Ankiel and Mitchell Boggs(who is from Georgia) or maybe a Brad Thompson, we could get a Left Fielder who has shown to be a good producer since he stopped pitching in 2004 and he is fairly cheap and the same age as Bay.
Ankiel has a somewhat low average but TP could probably help with that has 14 Homers with 35 RBI's. I would think this could definitely help the Braves, what does everyone think He could be a much cheaper option then really anyone else I have heard here...thoughts.

TP hasnt been able to help Frenchy whom is 4 years younger....Ankiel seems like a great talent but not sure that he feels our needs we need someone that will immediately make our team better, i doubt Annkiel would do that.

serGeant
06-28-2008, 05:49 PM
I think Bay since he is signed through next year at about $7.5 million (relatively affordable considering Teixeira will get $16-20 a year). Atlanta will need a middle of the order hitter and I'd hate to see them overpay someone like Adam Dunn or Pat Burrell or Bobby Abreu in the offseason. It would take a lot to get Bay, so I could see Nady being the more cost-effective target via trade. I say even if ATL is out of contention by the deadline, move for Bay (for next year) then move Teixeira to restock prospects. Make it feel as much like a Teixeira-for-Bay trade as possible so we're not throwing off a bunch of young talent again.

jmtapia
06-28-2008, 06:26 PM
I think Bay since he is signed through next year at about $7.5 million (relatively affordable considering Teixeira will get $16-20 a year). Atlanta will need a middle of the order hitter and I'd hate to see them overpay someone like Adam Dunn or Pat Burrell or Bobby Abreu in the offseason. It would take a lot to get Bay, so I could see Nady being the more cost-effective target via trade. I say even if ATL is out of contention by the deadline, move for Bay (for next year) then move Teixeira to restock prospects. Make it feel as much like a Teixeira-for-Bay trade as possible so we're not throwing off a bunch of young talent again.

Thats the thing though. If we acquire Bay it would be foolish to trade Tex. IF we get Bay its to make a 2nd half surge. IF anything we let Tex walk and we get a couple draft picks. Which they way we scout may be even worth the same as a Tex trade.

Bravesman11
06-28-2008, 06:35 PM
Its called AGE. usually players get better with age. Frenchy is just 24. His prime is at least 3 years from now. Other OF like him are struggling as well, check Young, Hermedia, Pence and others.

We just need to be patient. He will turn it around he just needs to get over the mental blocks. Sports are based on potential. Players get drafter based on this principal. Not every one pans out. But in Frenchy's case producing on pace for 40+ 2B, 20 HR and 100 RBIs make me feel comfortable bc once he figures things out he will be a monster at the plate.

Sure he will never have an OBP higher then .350 but i expect his SLG to get a lot better. Frenchy has proven he can hit for power (29 HR) he can hit for average (.300+) last year...and IMO he will prove again he can get over this hump and have a great 2nd half.

You can play the "age" card and the "he's not into his prime" card all you want. But that getting older does not make your average grow or your ability to recognize balls better. And prime usually only increases your power numbers, so what, add five more to his eight? Will five more home runs in 2012 make this all worth it? Based on what he's shown, he CAN hit .300 or hit 30, but he's NOT. He's not executing. And don't try to compare Francoeur to those guys again, NPS and I both told you why Francoeur is not like them due to the fact he's played FAR more than all of those players, so he should becontributing his normal production, not in a sophomore slump. Besides, Young is not slumping, Hermedia is still on pace for career highs, and Pence is also still on pace to set career highs, and this is only his second season in the majors.

No, I don't have to be patient. He's not helping us, bench him. Put someone in who can help us right now. Francoeur is WAY past the point of reaching his potential. He's reached as high as he can in both power and average, but is accomplishing neither, why isn't he, tell me? True, players get drafted based on potential, but what measures their potential? Just the way they look? No, it's what they've done in high school or college. So in reality, potential doesn't exist, it's knowledge of what they've done before. So Francoeur SHOULD be on pace to hit .300 AND hit 30 HR, but isn't doing either, that's what makes this situation bad. And just because you TELL me Francouer is going to figure it out doesn't comfort me at all. He has to prove it.

jmtapia
06-28-2008, 06:38 PM
You can play the "age" card and the "he's not into his prime" card all you want. But that getting older does not make your average grow or your ability to recognize balls better. And prime usually only increases your power numbers, so what, add five more to his eight? Will five more home runs in 2012 make this all worth it? Based on what he's shown, he CAN hit .300 or hit 30, but he's NOT. He's not executing. And don't try to compare Francoeur to those guys again, NPS and I both told you why Francoeur is not like them due to the fact he's played FAR more than all of those players, so he should becontributing his normal production, not in a sophomore slump. Besides, Young is not slumping, Hermedia is still on pace for career highs, and Pence is also still on pace to set career highs, and this is only his second season in the majors.

No, I don't have to be patient. He's not helping us, bench him. Put someone in who can help us right now. Francoeur is WAY past the point of reaching his potential. He's reached as high as he can in both power and average, but is accomplishing neither, why isn't he, tell me? True, players get drafted based on potential, but what measures their potential? Just the way they look? No, it's what they've done in high school or college. So in reality, potential doesn't exist, it's knowledge of what they've done before. So Francoeur SHOULD be on pace to hit .300 AND hit 30 HR, but isn't doing either, that's what makes this situation bad. And just because you TELL me Francouer is going to figure it out doesn't comfort me at all. He has to prove it.

Ok lets bench him and have an OF of BJ/Blanco/Norton.......?????? Give me a break. He is our best chance out there, we can only hope he gets going, for all our sakes.

And i will play the "23 year old" card because i truly believe his struggles are due to his age. He will learn and he will mature. In my case i will give him some time and thus provide myself with comfort and others could keep blowing off steam.

Bravesman11
06-28-2008, 07:00 PM
Ok lets bench him and have an OF of BJ/Blanco/Norton.......?????? Give me a break. He is our best chance out there, we can only hope he gets going, for all our sakes.

And i will play the "23 year old" card because i truly believe his struggles are due to his age. He will learn and he will mature. In my case i will give him some time and thus provide myself with comfort and others could keep blowing off steam.

Kotsay's coming back very soon. Blanco/Kotsay/Jones. ALL of those guys are doing better than Francoeur in their own respect (even though Francoeur has had far more opportunities).

His struggles are not due to his age. He's proven he's done better at younger ages, so you can't say he's going to get there. He's already BEEN there. He should STILL be there. The reason he's not producing now is because he's not letting anyone help him. He goes up there with the same approach every at-bat and comes away with the same result, just expecting it to change. Albert Einstein calls that insanity.

CrippledRam
07-08-2008, 06:09 PM
If the Pirates opt to trade Jack Wilson, they might increase their interest in Brent Lillibridge, who they sent to the Braves last year in the Adam LaRoche trade. For Bay, the Braves would likely have to include another Major League-ready player like Brandon Jones, who is targeted to play left field next year if another outfielder isn't acquired.

http://trades.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/07/will_demands_decrease.html

Bay for Lilli and BJ? I'd do that yesterday. Too bad Bay would likely cost more and probably won't be traded.

jmtapia
07-08-2008, 06:11 PM
Lilli, BJ, and Diamond......for Bay. LETS DO IT.

Braves28Herbs7
07-08-2008, 06:12 PM
Omg yea totally. Please get this trade done. Id love to see our outfield get better. and if we got bay and hopefully frenchy figures out his batting. then yes im excited for after asb

CrippledRam
07-08-2008, 06:54 PM
Doubt this would be nearly enough. We don't even know if the Pirates want Lilli back.

irishfan1582
07-08-2008, 07:04 PM
Whatever it takes, this is a deal that needs to be done. And in my opinion it needs to happen sooner rather then later.

Get Bay now, evaluate the teams performance with him in the lineup over the next two weeks, then decide if there is still a legit shot at making the playoffs. If at that time the Braves feel they are out of the race and have no shot at resigning Tex, begin to build for next season.

jmtapia
07-08-2008, 07:18 PM
Doubt this would be nearly enough. We don't even know if the Pirates want Lilli back.

Reports indicate that the Pirates are looking to trade Jack Wilson to the Dodgers. On mlbtraderumors it indicated they might be interested in Lilli and an MLB ready OF.....

tomno00
07-08-2008, 07:30 PM
well this would help, but im afraid the cubs and brewers will battle it out this year for the nl crown..... braves cant compete with that, especially if they all stay healthy. But im not opposed to getting bay, especially if he's this cheap

BRAVE KID
07-08-2008, 07:30 PM
if that is all it takes do it now, no point waiting. You look around and you see the cubs and brew crew getting it done early, they are already competitors now they are even more dangerous. If we are serious about a play-off run might as well get it done now.

jmtapia
07-08-2008, 07:37 PM
For one im glad we didnt go after either CC or Harden....CC was impossible but we could have gone after Harden. Glad we didnt though bc IMO he wont pitch more the 130 Inning this season.

We need a blockbuster to propel us. We need an OF and another starter. It seems though as if Wren is going to wait till the very end to make a deal. Cant blame him, our division is going no where at the moment, so thats buying him time.

braves790
07-08-2008, 07:41 PM
Get Bay!!

tomno00
07-08-2008, 07:43 PM
yea but what starters are out there that could be better than the ones we have now? i doubt we will be getting any starter, especially with the possibility of hampton and glavine comming back... we should acquire bay and then get rid of tex.... bay can be our bridge to our young guys and we can get barry to play first for us haha

jmtapia
07-08-2008, 08:06 PM
I dont mean junk i mean make a splash.....its harder now that two of the most coveted SP are gone but i believe down the stretch experience wins adn we need at least one more experienced SP.

JakeDelbreezy
07-08-2008, 08:07 PM
I'm not sold on Bay. He had a down year last year. If the goal is to win now then we make a move for a guy like Raul Ibanez. I'm sure I'm going to get bashed for saying that but it kills two birds with one stone. You can have Ibanez for a year and due to his age you don't have to worry about him being their to impede the growth or opportunities for the youngsters. Everybody wants Bay because he seems to be the bigger name. Here is a look at their stats:

Raul Ibanez bats left handed. he has .279 batting average (.300 vs lefties, .272 vs righties) 10 hrs, 52 RBI's..he also has 25 doubles and a .348 Obp

Jason Bay hits right handed .289, 17 hrs, 45 RBI's..he has 20 doubles and a .395 obp (70 k's in 315 ab's). I think the telling stat is this. Bay hits .222 against lefties and .309 against righties.

I also think if we got Ibanez and kept Tex for a run that Ibanez could play first next year if need be....Ibanez due to his age etc would also probably cost less than Bay despite the similar stat lines...

jmtapia
07-08-2008, 08:08 PM
^^^Problem is we need a RH bat not a LH bat. Were stocked with those. I guess you forgot to omitt that Bay has a .395 OBP. Bay has struggled at the 3 hole but has been great at the #4 hole. Hence, next year he becomes our #4 hitter with Tex gone.

JakeDelbreezy
07-08-2008, 08:16 PM
I think the whole lefty righty thing is a little overstated for someone who hits both of them well. If a guy can hit, he can hit. Bay cannot hit lefties, Ibanez can hit righties...you also have to factor in what we would be giving up for one or the other. Sure I want to win now but if there are two guys who are similar and one them cost less...give me the bargain.

jmtapia
07-08-2008, 08:31 PM
I think the whole lefty righty thing is a little overstated for someone who hits both of them well. If a guy can hit, he can hit. Bay cannot hit lefties, Ibanez can hit righties...you also have to factor in what we would be giving up for one or the other. Sure I want to win now but if there are two guys who are similar and one them cost less...give me the bargain.

Id still rather have a RH batter just to give our lineup some balance it has needed all season long.

JakeDelbreezy
07-08-2008, 08:41 PM
I think the most important thing either way (Bay, Ibanez etc) is we get one of the guys sooner rather than later...Reports say Frank Wren is stuck in the middle on whether he is a buyer or a seller...

As far as your earlier post about starting pitching...it's just not out there. We would be hard pressed to find a guy that would be a legit #3 or #4. Randy Wolf, no thx. Maddux...nostalgic but won't win us a pennant. Milwood, Paul Byrd....seems like we had all these guys already, an experienced pitcher would be great...but we don't really need a guy who pitches 5 innings and has a 4 something ERA (Unless it's a bargain, I'm all about bargains)....if the Bravos want to make that push, they need a consistent bat.

CrippledRam
07-08-2008, 08:41 PM
Bay=Beast...Get it done.

Lady's Man
07-08-2008, 08:42 PM
hell yea, we need to get this mo fo... then we need to lock up that big boi tex... chipp, tex, bay... mmhmm i like the sound of dat... Then we need to get that mo fo franceour to heat up.. That boi killin us fo real. Need to tell those boys that be making those baseballs to put a big *** $$$ sign on them balls. Then his eyes will really light up.

braves790
07-08-2008, 09:08 PM
hell yea, we need to get this mo fo... then we need to lock up that big boi tex... chipp, tex, bay... mmhmm i like the sound of dat... Then we need to get that mo fo franceour to heat up.. That boi killin us fo real. Need to tell those boys that be making those baseballs to put a big *** $$$ sign on them balls. Then his eyes will really light up.

No offense but what the hell does that mean?

sniglewhat
07-08-2008, 09:45 PM
its means... we really need bay, then we need to try to sign Teixeira to long term deal. Wow, Chipper, Tex, Bay in the middle of the lineup? That sounds good. If only Jeff Francouer could break out of his slump, he is killing us right now. We should get MLB to put huge dollar signs on all the balls, then maybe Francouer will be able to hit the ball.

CrippledRam
07-08-2008, 09:58 PM
its means... we really need bay, then we need to try to sign Teixeira to long term deal. Wow, Chipper, Tex, Bay in the middle of the lineup? That sounds good. If only Jeff Francouer could break out of his slump, he is killing us right now. We should get MLB to put huge dollar signs on all the balls, then maybe Francouer will be able to hit the ball.

Don't forget McCann.

Coach100
07-08-2008, 10:36 PM
Lilli and Jones for Bay....SOLD! Even if the Braves fell out of the race they could try and trade Tex in a few weeks for a good, young arm for the future. And still have Jones, McCann, Bay, Frenchy for next year.

jmtapia
07-09-2008, 12:30 AM
Dont forget Heyward in 1B for 2009....:worthy:

Chipper
07-09-2008, 12:38 AM
Dont forget Heyward in 1B for 2009....:worthy:

Maybe, but I doubt he starts next year. I could see us signing Tex to a one year deal for him to "up his value" but I doubt it happens. A more likely signing is "Robert Fick" like player to manage for a year or so.

jmtapia
07-09-2008, 12:41 AM
Maybe, but I doubt he starts next year. I could see us signing Tex to a one year deal for him to "up his value" but I doubt it happens. A more likely signing is "Robert Fick" like player to manage for a year or so.

Fick had that weird play at first that left a bad taste in the managers mouth...

Lady's Man
07-09-2008, 01:45 AM
its means... we really need bay, then we need to try to sign Teixeira to long term deal. Wow, Chipper, Tex, Bay in the middle of the lineup? That sounds good. If only Jeff Francouer could break out of his slump, he is killing us right now. We should get MLB to put huge dollar signs on all the balls, then maybe Francouer will be able to hit the ball.


well said playa.... now if only the braves will snap out of their ***** mode and actually step us and get us a lf

braves790
07-09-2008, 09:33 AM
There you go Lady's Man you said something I can actually understand :dance:

lavell12
07-09-2008, 09:35 AM
I think these last four games before the break will decide if the Braves go after someone like Bay.

BravesFever
07-09-2008, 10:40 AM
I think you can forget about ibanez. I cant see the braves wanting him unless he is dirt cheap. Ibanez isnt good on defense

ugafan
07-09-2008, 10:49 AM
Ladys man, youre embarrasing us Braves fans, don't go declaring the Braves to be in the world series, we're fourth in our own division, you make us look like Giant and Cub fans, but on the issue at hand Bay would be a very good addition but if we don't add a solid starting pitcher I font think we're going anywhere, Hudson is inconsistent, Jurrjens is just sick, Reyes is okay but after that is a question mark, Morton isn't ready to be as good as he can be, we need to trade for or sign a good starter, preferrably a lefty

JakeDelbreezy
07-09-2008, 12:30 PM
I think you can forget about ibanez. I cant see the braves wanting him unless he is dirt cheap. Ibanez isnt good on defense

It's not like we're running gold glovers out there as it is. And the whole point about getting Ibanez over Bay is the fact he will be much cheaper. The fact is the stats don't lie Bay isn't that much better offensively than Ibanez right now. Sure Ibanez will be out of the league in a couple of year while Bay will still be playing, but in the here and now there's not much difference and if we're talking about winning now..then that's what matters. I think some people are down on Ibanez b/c he plays on the west coast and no one ever sees him play.

braves790
07-09-2008, 12:49 PM
I just had a thought about A.J. Burnett. Yes I know he can be a rental after this season and he's inconsistent but what if we can do a deal centered around Tyler Flowers for Burnett?

redwhiteandblue
07-09-2008, 01:10 PM
I just had a thought about A.J. Burnett. Yes I know he can be a rental after this season and he's inconsistent but what if we can do a deal centered around Tyler Flowers for Burnett?

Depends, in this scenario, whats the plan on Tex? I mean if you make it serious about re-signing him, then perhaps. Reading around on here some people have high expectations on Flowers and the way he's progressing. So if he's going to be logjammed, then do it. It brings in someone to strengthen the staff for a run at it. If we don't re-sign Texiera I say no. For one, if were not going to he may be traded. And if we trade him and don't get some sort of 1B replacement we could use any 'spects we could to hope one turns out to be a more then adequate replacement at 1B.

braves790
07-09-2008, 01:20 PM
^^Flower's catching this season and that's where he's going to stay because he has way more value that way! And our 1B of the look's be Frederick Freeman (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Freeman%20%201B&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=518692). He's having an awesome season so therefore if Tex doesn't resign then Freeman is the 1B of the future. So that makes Flowers expandable.

BravesFever
07-09-2008, 01:53 PM
I would not pencil in freeman to 1B just yet. Kala Kaaihue looked to be the future 1B when he was in A ball.

braves790
07-09-2008, 02:44 PM
Your right BravesFever but Freeman is a different hitter that KK anyhows!