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View Full Version : Anyone think we should go for Vince Carter if we can get him cheap?



JordansBulls
06-26-2008, 05:12 PM
Now that Richard Jefferson is reportedly being traded to the Bucks it is clear the Nets are in rebuilding mode. Should we make a pitch for Vince Carter if we can get him for cheap and if nothing goes down tonight for us in trades?

Like trading Hughes, Gordon and the 2nd rounder for him?


Lineup
PG Rose/Hinrich
SG Vince Carter/Thabo
SF Deng/Nocioni
PF Gooden/Tyrus
C Noah/Gray

KH12
06-26-2008, 05:13 PM
It'll cost more than that.

pooriejay
06-26-2008, 05:14 PM
Much more. Maybe Hughes' deal is appealing to them because of when it ends, but I think Tyrus or another young player would have to be involved.

I'm not really into it.

Briggurlacher
06-26-2008, 05:14 PM
Now that Richard Jefferson is reportedly being traded to the Bucks it is clear the Nets are in rebuilding mode. Should we make a pitch for Vince Carter if we can get him for cheap and if nothing goes down tonight for us in trades?

Like trading Hughes, Duhon and the 2nd rounder for him?


Lineup
PG Rose/Hinrich
SG Vince Carter/Thabo/Gordon
SF Deng/Nocioni
PF Gooden/Tyrus
C Noah/Gray

It wouldbasically be like trading for JO.. Do you want a guy that will be hurt for ~40% of the year, even if we can get him cheap?

I would LOVE to dump Hughes if we could, but I dont even think its worth it to bring in one of the most injury prone people on earth.

abe_froman
06-26-2008, 05:15 PM
i'd rather hold onto hughes and use that money to get a better sg(wade,jj)in 10

JordansBulls
06-26-2008, 05:18 PM
i'd rather hold onto hughes and use that money to get a better sg(wade,jj)in 10

that's why I am saying if nothing else happens for us tonight.

Giving up Hughes, Duhon and the 2nd round pick is virtually giving up nothing. Even if Vince is hurt, we really don't lose any value in getting him for that package.

kozelkid
06-26-2008, 05:19 PM
no the slighest.
he has a big contract and I'd rather see sef or gordon take the minutes at sg than this bum. he isnt going to offer this team much within the next 2 years anyway.

pooriejay
06-26-2008, 05:19 PM
It wouldbasically be like trading for JO.. Do you want a guy that will be hurt for ~40% of the year, even if we can get him cheap?

I would LOVE to dump Hughes if we could, but I dont even think its worth it to bring in one of the most injury prone people on earth.

Again, not a guy I would really refer to as injury prone. He's averaged 70 games a season in his 10 seasons at 38 min./game.

It's just that he's owed $67M over the next 4 years. Sure he'll score 20 and get to the FT line, but is he worth it for that kind of a dough and a young player?

... No.

abe_froman
06-26-2008, 05:20 PM
no the slighest.
he has a big contract and I'd rather see sef or gordon take the minutes at sg than this bum. he isnt going to offer this team much within the next 2 years anyway.

why? it's not like gordon and sef will do much for us either and if we sign ben for the long term,that sinks any hope of a run 2+ years from now

kozelkid
06-26-2008, 05:22 PM
why? it's not like gordon and sef will do much for us either and if we sign ben for the long term,that sinks any hope of a run 2+ years from now

who says?
give gordon top sixth man money (8-9mil) and sef imo can be a very good player. He already has great defense, very athletic and shows great work ethic. I think he will come in and be great for the bulls next season.

JordansBulls
06-26-2008, 05:22 PM
no the slighest.
he has a big contract and I'd rather see sef or gordon take the minutes at sg than this bum. he isnt going to offer this team much within the next 2 years anyway.

If we get any other guard, Gordon is gone no matter what. The guy complains when he doesn't start, how long do you think he would put up being the 6th man and knowing he won't start?

kozelkid
06-26-2008, 05:24 PM
If we get any other guard, Gordon is gone no matter what. The guy complains when he doesn't start, how long do you think he would put up being the 6th man and knowing he won't start?

again, maybe he will finally realize his role because not too many teams will go for him and give him starter money. if they do... well **** him, if not, he will have to settle for sixth man.

abe_froman
06-26-2008, 05:29 PM
again, maybe he will finally realize his role because not too many teams will go for him and give him starter money. if they do... well **** him, if not, he will have to settle for sixth man.

he isn't,in his last interview he said he didn't regret not taking the deal.i'd do a qo or what you said,but not what he's looking for

BullsFan_1
06-26-2008, 05:34 PM
If there was any chance we get him that cheap, it would be a no-brainer...but he wont go that cheaply.

JordansBulls
06-26-2008, 05:39 PM
Vince Carter last year averaged 21 ppg/ 6 rpg/ 5 apg on 46% FG and 36% 3 pt

He will be 32 in January.

And he will make the following:

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_jersey.htm

In '08-09 = 15.2 Million = 32 years old
In '09-10 = 16.3 Million = 33 years old
In '10-11 = 17.3 Million = 34 years old
In '11-12 (Team Option) = 18 million = 35 years old

KingKoopa
06-26-2008, 05:40 PM
I say if Gordon deal doesn't work out. We could go after Vince Carter. But without a low post presence. We can't put the load on his back. Carter has fallen out of stardom. I see him as a number 2 option now. He needs another star behind him. All championships won were by.
Garnett and Pierce
Duncan and Parker
Oneal and Wade
Rasheed Wallace and Billups
Thats how you win titles.

kozelkid
06-26-2008, 05:41 PM
he isn't,in his last interview he said he didn't regret not taking the deal.i'd do a qo or what you said,but not what he's looking for

see I think he's a winner. i think he wants to win so much that he will saccrifice a little to be able to play on a great team. he knows that whoever bulls draft is FOR REAL! I think he may saccrifice. maybe not, but again this FA there isnt any other team except philly that have cap to sign him... I have a feeling philly wont take him, if they do, again whatever, go for barbosa. he's a cheap sixth man who is still one of the best. can you imagine him and rose in transition, 2 fastest plaeyrs in the nba lol.

BullsFan_1
06-26-2008, 05:41 PM
Vince Carter last year averaged 21 ppg/ 6 rpg/ 5 apg on 46% FG and 36% 3 pt

He will be 32 in January.

And he will make the following:

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_jersey.htm

In '08-09 = 15.2 Million = 32 years old
In '09-10 = 16.3 Million = 33 years old
In '10-11 = 17.3 Million = 34 years old
In '11-12 (Team Option) = 18 million = 35 years old

Whoa...**** that then...

nolin
06-26-2008, 05:43 PM
Now that Richard Jefferson is reportedly being traded to the Bucks it is clear the Nets are in rebuilding mode. Should we make a pitch for Vince Carter if we can get him for cheap and if nothing goes down tonight for us in trades?

Like trading Hughes, Duhon and the 2nd rounder for him?


Lineup
PG Rose/Hinrich
SG Vince Carter/Thabo/Gordon
SF Deng/Nocioni
PF Gooden/Tyrus
C Noah/Gray


Yeah this trade make a lot of since. Hughes contract expires in 2 years. Nets can then go after james and wade

Davisayan
06-26-2008, 05:50 PM
If the bulls can't get rid of hinrich and nocs contract for expiring contracts or 2 year contracts then i'd do a trade of hinrich and noc for vince and their 1st.

abe_froman
06-26-2008, 05:53 PM
see I think he's a winner. i think he wants to win so much that he will saccrifice a little to be able to play on a great team. he knows that whoever bulls draft is FOR REAL! I think he may saccrifice. maybe not, but again this FA there isnt any other team except philly that have cap to sign him... I have a feeling philly wont take him, if they do, again whatever, go for barbosa. he's a cheap sixth man who is still one of the best. can you imagine him and rose in transition, 2 fastest plaeyrs in the nba lol.

well this will make you like ben lot less(haha) but he really wants beasley(said in the interview).though i do agree that wouldn't be bad but not ideal,but since we aren't gonna compete for awhile i wouldn't sink us with ben over other,better options that should come available

cubsbullsbears
06-26-2008, 06:04 PM
do you guys no what your talking about, vc has been healthy over the last three years so he is no longer injury prone and u must b crazy to not want a go to guy since we havent had one since jordan, but carter seems to have no heart so theres no way pax will go after him

mschmidt64
06-26-2008, 06:10 PM
Now that Richard Jefferson is reportedly being traded to the Bucks it is clear the Nets are in rebuilding mode. Should we make a pitch for Vince Carter if we can get him for cheap and if nothing goes down tonight for us in trades?

Like trading Hughes, Duhon and the 2nd rounder for him?


Lineup
PG Rose/Hinrich
SG Vince Carter/Thabo/Gordon
SF Deng/Nocioni
PF Gooden/Tyrus
C Noah/Gray


I could be talked into it.

Then I'd look to move Hinrich and Gooden for a scoring PF.

KeNtUcKyGrEeN
06-26-2008, 06:19 PM
Trade Nocioni, hinrich, and gordon for carter and a 2009 first rounder!

mschmidt64
06-26-2008, 06:19 PM
I say if Gordon deal doesn't work out. We could go after Vince Carter. But without a low post presence. We can't put the load on his back. Carter has fallen out of stardom. I see him as a number 2 option now. He needs another star behind him. All championships won were by.
Garnett and Pierce
Duncan and Parker
Oneal and Wade
Rasheed Wallace and Billups
Thats how you win titles.


Rose would be another star. Probably enough to get us a 4 seed or so, which is what everyone here seems content with getting.

MassoDio
06-26-2008, 06:36 PM
The simple answer....no.....

But I would rather have him than Gordon, or Hughes if that was my choice.

MGB
06-26-2008, 06:53 PM
Idk, getting VC would basically kill any chance of us getting anything big during The Offseason of 10 and if we're drafting Rose, we're not going to be winning right away, couple years, yes, but not this year.

I'd be happy with Playoffs this year. 2010 will be when Rose is really emerging into a Star and those other stars are going to want to play with him, in the same way a lot of guys would probably give a nut to play with Chris Paul or Williams right now. I think you need to plan around something like that.

kingbrentg
06-26-2008, 06:56 PM
I want no part of Carter.

JordansBulls
06-26-2008, 07:36 PM
I could be talked into it.

Then I'd look to move Hinrich and Gooden for a scoring PF.

I'm quite sure Gordon would be moved for sure if we got Vince.

mschmidt64
06-26-2008, 07:39 PM
I'm quite sure Gordon would be moved for sure if we got Vince.

He'd have to be sign and traded though.

I'd almost rather let him walk.

shaq32
06-26-2008, 09:29 PM
at this point i dont think any trade is happening tonight

JordansBulls
06-26-2008, 10:22 PM
at this point i dont think any trade is happening tonight

You never know.

Soop
06-26-2008, 10:46 PM
I would love to get Vince on board. :drool:

Blue Tiger
06-27-2008, 12:51 AM
Now that Richard Jefferson is reportedly being traded to the Bucks it is clear the Nets are in rebuilding mode. Should we make a pitch for Vince Carter if we can get him for cheap and if nothing goes down tonight for us in trades?

Like trading Hughes, Duhon and the 2nd rounder for him?


Lineup
PG Rose/Hinrich
SG Vince Carter/Thabo/Gordon
SF Deng/Nocioni
PF Gooden/Tyrus
C Noah/Gray

That do sound like a smart trade for us because the Nets are in a rebuilding situation and if this smart idea trade of yours becomes a reality the Bulls will have a superstar(Vince Carter) and the Bulls just will need 1 or 2 more superstar(s) to become a Championship contender.

BooCain
06-27-2008, 01:46 PM
I think they could get now with a trade involving Hughes and Sefolosha and a future 2nd rd pick could get it done.

97'bulls
06-27-2008, 02:03 PM
No because this is Rose's team now. Let him grow, bringing in VC would stunt his growth.

uptownfan
06-27-2008, 02:17 PM
No I would hold off, we should try to pursue brand because the Clippers really need a PG and they would be interested in Hinrich

infinity2152
06-27-2008, 07:18 PM
If the bulls can't get rid of hinrich and nocs contract for expiring contracts or 2 year contracts then i'd do a trade of hinrich and noc for vince and their 1st.

This is probably the most reasonable trade, Vince is 31, he's not dead. Lots of NBA guards play till their late 30's, and we won't be able to get a better starting SG. He's been healthier the last few years and will probably be a 20+pt scorer for at least 3-4 more. After what we paid Wallace and we're paying Hughes, I'd do it, though I would prefer to give them Hughes, Noc and next years 1st. hopefully, we won't be a lottery team next year, and I don't see them adding another rookie next year unless they make LOTS of trades.
Rose
carter
Deng
Thomas
Noah Now that's a line-up with some athletes!!!

JordansBulls
06-27-2008, 07:34 PM
This is probably the most reasonable trade, Vince is 31, he's not dead. Lots of NBA guards play till their late 30's, and we won't be able to get a better starting SG. He's been healthier the last few years and will probably be a 20+pt scorer for at least 3-4 more. After what we paid Wallace and we're paying Hughes, I'd do it, though I would prefer to give them Hughes, Noc and next years 1st. hopefully, we won't be a lottery team next year, and I don't see them adding another rookie next year unless they make LOTS of trades.
Rose
carter
Deng
Thomas
Noah Now that's a line-up with some athletes!!!


Wow that team would be fun to watch. We would score like 120 points a night and give up 118.

DeShaun Brown
06-27-2008, 08:22 PM
I think the Bulls should definitely explore other options before we look at Cater.

JordansBulls
06-28-2008, 12:33 PM
The Nets may seem to be in the process of blowing up their roster, but if they truly wanted to experience a true demolition job, they had their chance Wednesday night.

As they were putting some of the finishing touches on the Richard Jefferson-Yi Jianlian deal, the Nets received a call from the Cleveland Cavaliers, who offered them Wally Szczerbiak and his expiring, $13.2 million salary for Vince Carter.

According to two Eastern Conference executives, who asked for anonymity so as not to spill Rod Thorn's secrets, the Nets considered it -- but not for very long.

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2008/06/carter_staying_after_cavs_offe.html

Are you kidding me? If that is what he is going for, then why not just offer Gordon and Hughes for him?

Seriously we would have a go to scorer that we have needed and a much bigger guard.

This lineup would be good.
PG Rose/Hinrich/Duhon
SG Carter/Thabo
SF Deng/Nocioni
PF Gooden/Tyrus
C Noah/Gray

On top of that, we could offer Hinrich for Camby and then our lineup would be:

This lineup would be good.
PG Rose/Duhon
SG Carter/Thabo
SF Deng/Nocioni
PF Gooden/Tyrus
C Camby/Noah/Gray

I'd take that lineup for the next 2-3 years.

nolin
06-28-2008, 01:19 PM
http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2008/06/carter_staying_after_cavs_offe.html

Are you kidding me? If that is what he is going for, then why not just offer Gordon and Hughes for him?

Seriously we would have a go to scorer that we have needed and a much bigger guard.

This lineup would be good.
PG Rose/Hinrich/Duhon
SG Carter/Thabo
SF Deng/Nocioni
PF Gooden/Tyrus
C Noah/Gray



On top of that, we could offer Hinrich for Camby and then our lineup would be:

This lineup would be good.
PG Rose/Duhon
SG Carter/Thabo
SF Deng/Nocioni
PF Gooden/Tyrus
C Camby/Noah/Gray

I'd take that lineup for the next 2-3 years.

Camby is garbage. And if we take carter's contract we wont be able to get any big name FA in 2010. Your logic on trades is the worst i've ever seen.

JordansBulls
06-28-2008, 01:49 PM
Camby is garbage. And if we take carter's contract we wont be able to get any big name FA in 2010. Your logic on trades is the worst i've ever seen.

Once again, I don't get this big deal about the 2010 FA. How do you know any of those guys will come to Chicago? We will be just wasting time for no reason when we could be getting better now.
The same thing was said when Duncan and Mcgrady were coming off the books, but they resigned and didn't come here. The same with Kobe in 2004. Yeah it may seem like a good idea to wait, but really the only guy we could possibly get is Wade and if Miami is doing well he won't come here.

kozelkid
06-28-2008, 01:57 PM
Once again, I don't get this big deal about the 2010 FA. How do you know any of those guys will come to Chicago? We will be just wasting time for no reason when we could be getting better now.
The same thing was said when Duncan and Mcgrady were coming off the books, but they resigned and didn't come here. The same with Kobe in 2004. Yeah it may seem like a good idea to wait, but really the only guy we could possibly get is Wade and if Miami is doing well he won't come here.

great! :rolleyes:
so let's take garbage, declining stars who only take playing time away from the young players who ACTUALLY have a future with our team.
I cant believe you of all people are actually saying it's unrealistic to sign free agents in 2010 when you actually still believe that wade or melo can actually become a bull...
point is jb, we all want to win, but patience is better than doing a major screw job like phoenix and dallas already did...

JordansBulls
06-28-2008, 02:03 PM
great! :rolleyes:
so let's take garbage, declining stars who only take playing time away from the young players who ACTUALLY have a future with our team.
I cant believe you of all people are actually saying it's unrealistic to sign free agents in 2010 when you actually still believe that wade or melo can actually become a bull...
point is jb, we all want to win, but patience is better than doing a major screw job like phoenix and dallas already did...

We have been building for 10 years already and made it out of the first round once. We have had high draft picks and all we here is let these guys grow. That time is over, we need to get better now.
And trading Hughes a player we don't even want and Gordon a player we would allow to walk for a guy that is a star and gets you 21/6/5 on 46% is a pretty good idea.

kozelkid
06-28-2008, 02:10 PM
We have been building for 10 years already and made it out of the first round once. We have had high draft picks and all we here is let these guys grow. That time is over, we need to get better now.
And trading Hughes a player we don't even want and Gordon a player we would allow to walk for a guy that is a star and gets you 21/6/5 on 46% is a pretty good idea.

no it's a terrible idea. people told you that in this forum and the other forum. for starters, in these last 10 years, when exactly did we get a franchise player like rose. keep in mind we had a monkey as our gm when we had brand, and williams got in a freak accident.
And here's why it's a terrible idea, with carter you stunt thabo's growth even more, AND you have his crappy contract over 2011.
Seriously, you are the only person who actually wants to crap away our good future, in hopes of maybe 1-2 good seasons where we will be a 5th seed at best. Are you honeslty that impatient that you rather see a few winning seasons now, and be mediocre for awhiel later?

nolin
06-28-2008, 02:15 PM
We have been building for 10 years already and made it out of the first round once. We have had high draft picks and all we here is let these guys grow. That time is over, we need to get better now.
And trading Hughes a player we don't even want and Gordon a player we would allow to walk for a guy that is a star and gets you 21/6/5 on 46% is a pretty good idea.

Vince carter has 3 more solid years in him. Carter was good in his younger days cause he was explosive, and now hes lost just about all of that.

JordansBulls
06-28-2008, 02:24 PM
Vince carter has 3 more solid years in him. Carter was good in his younger days cause he was explosive, and now hes lost just about all of that.

I'll take those 3 years of him.

DaBullsFan
06-28-2008, 03:16 PM
I was thinking about this last night, why not Vince He has about 3 good years left like most of you have said and by then Thabo would be ready to be a starter so we could use vince as that game changing player for 3 years as thabo gains more and more confidence in his game. Even with Vince here Thabo would still get his time and he can continue to work on his game so in 3years he would be ready to be that starting sg that we thought he could be when we drafted him. so i was thinking about how could we get him while not losing a step with our team. Then i thought of this 3 team trade with N.J-Chi-L.A.C.

N.J. Gets:
-Larry Hueghs
-cattino mobley
-Drew gooden
-Chi 2009 1st round pick
Reason-N.J gets even more moneyfor the 2010 offseason with the expiring contracts of Hughes and Mobley plus they get another draft pick to rebuild their team

Chi gets:
-Vince Carter
-Nened Kristic
-Brevon Knight
Reason-Chicago gets their allstar that would work great with the new addition of Derrick Rose plus we get a young pf/c that has a very good low post game let a lone the addition of a vet point guard to help out with Rose. Hinrich would have been great to keep but he is just to expensive to be a back up along with this trade i would like to see one with N.O. exchanging Ben gorden with Mike james and Hilton Armstrong maybe even N.O.'s 2009 1st as well

L.A. Clippers Get:
-Kirk Hinrich
-Stromile Swift
Reason-L.A. has been looking for a point guard for awhile now and they get one with hinrich to go along with their young building team. plus they don't even have to include Magette or Brand which makes it even better for them. L.A. alos takes on joe Smiths 5,205,000 that the bulls owed him

This leaving our bulls team with a lineup of:

Pg-Rose/James/Knight
Sg-Carter/Sefolosha
Sf-Deng/Nocioni
Pf-Kristic/Thomas
C-Noah/Armstrong/Gray

I know this is long but tell me what you think...

ChitownbullsBG7
06-28-2008, 03:22 PM
that actually not that bad. But i really dont want VC contract. ID rather take the chance in 2010 FA. If we land nobody in 2010, i would be ok because we still have a crapload of cap room to be creative.

kozelkid
06-28-2008, 03:24 PM
that actually not that bad. But i really dont want VC contract. ID rather take the chance in 2010 FA. If we land nobody in 2010, i would be ok because we still have a crapload of cap room to be creative.

thing is by 2010, even if we dont land anyone, we still have to give extensions to thabo and tt
however if that deal is done, then I want noci out as well so thabo can get plenty of PT behind vince and deng, then I would like the deal...

JordansBulls
06-28-2008, 04:24 PM
I was thinking about this last night, why not Vince He has about 3 good years left like most of you have said and by then Thabo would be ready to be a starter so we could use vince as that game changing player for 3 years as thabo gains more and more confidence in his game. Even with Vince here Thabo would still get his time and he can continue to work on his game so in 3years he would be ready to be that starting sg that we thought he could be when we drafted him. so i was thinking about how could we get him while not losing a step with our team. Then i thought of this 3 team trade with N.J-Chi-L.A.C.

N.J. Gets:
-Larry Hueghs
-cattino mobley
-Drew gooden
-Chi 2009 1st round pick
Reason-N.J gets even more moneyfor the 2010 offseason with the expiring contracts of Hughes and Mobley plus they get another draft pick to rebuild their team

Chi gets:
-Vince Carter
-Nened Kristic
-Brevon Knight
Reason-Chicago gets their allstar that would work great with the new addition of Derrick Rose plus we get a young pf/c that has a very good low post game let a lone the addition of a vet point guard to help out with Rose. Hinrich would have been great to keep but he is just to expensive to be a back up along with this trade i would like to see one with N.O. exchanging Ben gorden with Mike james and Hilton Armstrong maybe even N.O.'s 2009 1st as well

L.A. Clippers Get:
-Kirk Hinrich
-Stromile Swift
Reason-L.A. has been looking for a point guard for awhile now and they get one with hinrich to go along with their young building team. plus they don't even have to include Magette or Brand which makes it even better for them. L.A. alos takes on joe Smiths 5,205,000 that the bulls owed him

This leaving our bulls team with a lineup of:

Pg-Rose/James/Knight
Sg-Carter/Sefolosha
Sf-Deng/Nocioni
Pf-Kristic/Thomas
C-Noah/Armstrong/Gray

I know this is long but tell me what you think...

Not a bad deal but who is James?

ChitownbullsBG7
06-28-2008, 04:51 PM
Mike James. Wow how dont you know who he is. Oh i forgot you probably dont know players who arnt washed up all stars or Superstars we dont have a chance of getting.

Turtle55
06-28-2008, 04:53 PM
Mike James. Wow how dont you know who he is. Oh i forgot you probably dont know players who arnt washed up all stars or Superstars we dont have a chance of getting.

The trade doesn't involve the team that has Mike James (NO) and you don't explain how we get him unless I overlooked it.

ChitownbullsBG7
06-28-2008, 04:56 PM
it wasnt my trade idea so you have to ask whoever did it.

ChitownbullsBG7
06-28-2008, 04:56 PM
Oh and you missed how we got him.

Turtle55
06-28-2008, 04:58 PM
It doesn't say, I like James but for Gooden or someone if we get a legit big for Hinrich.

ChitownbullsBG7
06-28-2008, 05:02 PM
Yes it does, read one more time, VERY SLOWLY.

Turtle55
06-28-2008, 05:23 PM
Yes it does, read one more time, VERY SLOWLY.

OK, got it. I never read posts that are that long I just skim them.

JordansBulls
06-28-2008, 06:07 PM
The trade doesn't involve the team that has Mike James (NO) and you don't explain how we get him unless I overlooked it.

:nod:

ChitownbullsBG7
06-28-2008, 06:13 PM
Haha again read DaBullsFan post and youu will see it if you actually read it.

infinity2152
06-28-2008, 06:15 PM
Not getting Carter to save future cap room is stupid. First off, there are NO shooting guards available even close to VC, and we need to start winning now. second, if we use Hughes in the trade, that helps the cap situation. We have so many young good players, you can't play 12 guys every night. WE HAVE to take a couple of good players and trade for a star. His contract is over in 2011, if he has 3 good years he'll play out his contract. And half the teams in the league are clearing cap for 2010, so those contracts are going to be murderous and the teams that don't spend will have room in 2011. Are we going to sign somebody to a $20 mill/yr contract in Chicago??

infinity2152
06-28-2008, 06:17 PM
Can ANYONE name a SG BETTER than VC And is available? At a lower price?

ChitownbullsBG7
06-28-2008, 06:18 PM
Yeah because we can win with VC now because he did so much better with the Nets who had a better team.

ChitownbullsBG7
06-28-2008, 06:18 PM
T-Mac is better. Id take Hamilton because he can score and play D.

infinity2152
06-28-2008, 06:23 PM
I was thinking about this last night, why not Vince He has about 3 good years left like most of you have said and by then Thabo would be ready to be a starter so we could use vince as that game changing player for 3 years as thabo gains more and more confidence in his game. Even with Vince here Thabo would still get his time and he can continue to work on his game so in 3years he would be ready to be that starting sg that we thought he could be when we drafted him. so i was thinking about how could we get him while not losing a step with our team. Then i thought of this 3 team trade with N.J-Chi-L.A.C.

N.J. Gets:
-Larry Hueghs
-cattino mobley
-Drew gooden
-Chi 2009 1st round pick
Reason-N.J gets even more moneyfor the 2010 offseason with the expiring contracts of Hughes and Mobley plus they get another draft pick to rebuild their team

Chi gets:
-Vince Carter
-Nened Kristic
-Brevon Knight
Reason-Chicago gets their allstar that would work great with the new addition of Derrick Rose plus we get a young pf/c that has a very good low post game let a lone the addition of a vet point guard to help out with Rose. Hinrich would have been great to keep but he is just to expensive to be a back up along with this trade i would like to see one with N.O. exchanging Ben gorden with Mike james and Hilton Armstrong maybe even N.O.'s 2009 1st as well

L.A. Clippers Get:
-Kirk Hinrich
-Stromile Swift
Reason-L.A. has been looking for a point guard for awhile now and they get one with hinrich to go along with their young building team. plus they don't even have to include Magette or Brand which makes it even better for them. L.A. alos takes on joe Smiths 5,205,000 that the bulls owed him

This leaving our bulls team with a lineup of:

Pg-Rose/James/Knight
Sg-Carter/Sefolosha
Sf-Deng/Nocioni
Pf-Kristic/Thomas
C-Noah/Armstrong/Gray

I know this is long but tell me what you think...

This would clear Hinrich, Hughes and Gooden off our cap (Make up for VC), give us a promising young center in Kristic, and a good backup big in Armstrong. Do this deal in a heartbeat. And for those people screaming about cap space, the Grizzlies, TWolves and Sonics look great after clearing cap, don't they? :) Shouldn't building a team be at least MOSTLY about winning games. Chicago is a big enough market, we can pay the luxury tax if we're winning anyway. The franchise would definitely make that back.

nolin
06-28-2008, 06:27 PM
Can ANYONE name a SG BETTER than VC And is available? At a lower price?

yeah thabo and gordon. Thabo is a good defender. Gordon can come off the bench and avg 20.

infinity2152
06-28-2008, 06:30 PM
Yeah because we can win with VC now because he did so much better with the Nets who had a better team.

How do the Nets have a better team?? A PG who just got there and was injured, no starting PF really, an average Center, all they really had was VC and Jefferson, and that's not even close to as good as our team. Plus, there are plenty of good players on underperforming teams. by your logic, KG was garbage most of his career because of what the T-Wolves did. Amazing how the first year he was traded, he got a ring.

infinity2152
06-28-2008, 06:32 PM
yeah thabo and gordon. Thabo is a good defender. Gordon can come off the bench and avg 20.

Thabo and Gordon are better than Vince Carter?? Okay, you win. I give up.

ChitownbullsBG7
06-28-2008, 06:43 PM
How do the Nets have a better team?? A PG who just got there and was injured, no starting PF really, an average Center, all they really had was VC and Jefferson, and that's not even close to as good as our team. Plus, there are plenty of good players on underperforming teams. by your logic, KG was garbage most of his career because of what the T-Wolves did. Amazing how the first year he was traded, he got a ring.


Ever since he has ben there he has had Kidd and RJ. We dont have anyone close to the level of Kidd and RJ. Also he had Kristic, Magloire, Nachbar(who was just as good as Noc and Gordon in the 6th man role),Collins(just like Ben Wallace), Boone, Marcus Williams, Mikki Moore, Eddi House. VC has had talent to work with but he isnt a guy to take his team to the next level.

Hell the Nets were a better team before they traded for him.


When did KG ever have anybody? Marbury and Cassell arnt even close to Kidd's level and no disrespect but Sprewell is no Richard Jefferson. On top of that they made it to the conf. Finals and then the Wolves dismantled that team.

infinity2152
06-28-2008, 06:54 PM
Ever since he has ben there he has had Kidd and RJ. We dont have anyone close to the level of Kidd and RJ. Also he had Kristic, Magloire, Nachbar(who was just as good as Noc and Gordon in the 6th man role),Collins(just like Ben Wallace), Boone, Marcus Williams, Mikki Moore, Eddi House. VC has had talent to work with but he isnt a guy to take his team to the next level.

Hell the Nets were a better team before they traded for him.


When did KG ever have anybody? Marbury and Cassell arnt even close to Kidd's level and no disrespect but Sprewell is no Richard Jefferson. On top of that they made it to the conf. Finals and then the Wolves dismantled that team.

Okay I said I was done but here goes. New Jersey has won a lot of games because of VC, and you all are talking like they won 15 games last year. We've seen how much Kidd has left, and Jefferson just got traded for Yi and scraps, so that let's you know what they feel about him. Nachbar is not as good as Gordon or Noc, Collins has never done anything worth mentioning, they had no low post scorers either. And i'm not claiming VC is as good as KG, or that Cassell and Sprewell are as good as RJ and Kidd, but they have been all-stars and the point is there are very few SG's you would claim make their team better. People forget what SG's are supposed to do. If everybody does their job, VC would be great but they had 3 starters and Nachbar to count on and that was it. We have like 10 players better than everyone else on that team, if you swap Harris for Kidd. Obviously, they felt low post is an issue, or they wouldn't have traded jefferson. Now when they lose because they traded their best defender, that'll be Vince's fault too, right? When your SG avgs 20 a night on a good fg%, somebody else is not doing their job if you're losing.

ChitownbullsBG7
06-28-2008, 07:05 PM
yeah we should trade for Jamaal Crawford to because he is a 20/6/6 guy also. No, wait we should trade for Randolph because he is a 18 and 10 guy.

Its not all about STATS. They traded for VC to get them over the hump. That didnt work, hell they got worse. Maybe if your boy Carter played D he would be wanted but he doesnt. Also if our team is so much better than how come the sorry *** nets (no offense) have been sticking it to us for the last couple of years. It was because of Kidd, RJ, and that dam Mikki moore. Carter isnt the player he use to be.

He gets his stats up because he plays like Kobe one half of the season then he turns around the other half and plays like Kidd(offensively) the next. He was never a guy who you could win with. He is known to be a quitter.

Like i said before our guards, T-mac, and Hamilton are all better options. BG7 gives us VC numbers offensively and Thabo does 100% better defensively and gives us the assist and rebounds of Vince.

JordansBulls
07-11-2008, 11:51 AM
From reading the post on Doug's interview with Paxson

Interview (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Summer-League-Chat-with-John-Paxson-2959/)


Doug Thonus: How do you approach the 2010 free agency year given that it's the best year for free agents in the dawn of restricted free agency?

John Paxson: In an ideal world, you would like to be a really good team and clear cap space at the same time. I do feel if we choose to go that direction that we'd have the opportunity to do it. At that time Larry Hughes deal comes off for us, and we have some pieces we could move into expiring deals if we chose to. But that's not on our mind right now, I know a lot of teams are in that situation, but you do a disservice to everybody if that's your stated goal because it doesn't always work out. You may not be able to get one of those guys who's a top player in the league.


I think it is clear that Paxson knows that a lot of guys will be free agents in 2010 but he also knows that he more than likely will not be able to get any of them.
With that in mind and the rumors of the Nets being interested in Nocioni. I think if we could trade Nocioni and Hughes for Vince Carter that would be outstanding for us.

It gives us this lineup

rose/kirk
vc/ben
deng/thabo
gooden/tt
noah/gray

And then if we wanted maybe trade Kirk for Camby if need be. Or better yet we could trade Hinrich and Noah for Okafor. which would give us a lineup of:

rose/FA
vc/ben
deng/thabo
gooden/tt
Okafor/gray

Edit: Brought this up because didn't want to start another thread on the same thing and it isn't that old.

kozelkid
07-11-2008, 11:56 AM
From reading the post on Doug's interview with Paxson

Interview (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Summer-League-Chat-with-John-Paxson-2959/)



I think it is clear that Paxson knows that a lot of guys will be free agents in 2010 but he also knows that he more than likely will not be able to get any of them.
With that in mind and the rumors of the Nets being interested in Nocioni. I think if we could trade Nocioni and Hughes for Vince Carter that would be outstanding for us.

It gives us this lineup

rose/kirk
vc/ben
deng/thabo
gooden/tt
noah/gray

And then if we wanted maybe trade Kirk for Camby if need be.

Edit: Brought this up because didn't want to start another thread on the same thing and it isn't that old.

what's your crazy love over vince carter?
he isnt that good. he's unbelievably overrated, he's a selfish player and there's a reason why he doesnt win ****. He's basically a cancer in the lockeroom and only takes PT away from our prospects who will actually be part of this team in 2-3 years down the road.
If our team was ready to win now I'd be all for it, but we arent so deal doesnt get us anywhere, in fact it's only worse cause nets are trying to get rid of him FOR A REASON, HIS CONTRACT IS AWFUL. I'd rather trade noci for good expiring contracts so we can get a young GOOD player in 2010.

JordansBulls
07-11-2008, 11:58 AM
what's your crazy love over vince carter?
he isnt that good. he's unbelievably overrated, he's a selfish player and there's a reason why he doesnt win ****. He's basically a cancer in the lockeroom and only takes PT away from our prospects who will actually be part of this team in 2-3 years down the road.
If our team was ready to win now I'd be all for it, but we arent so deal doesnt get us anywhere, in fact it's only worse cause nets are trying to get rid of him FOR A REASON, HIS CONTRACT IS AWFUL. I'd rather trade noci for good expiring contracts so we can get a young GOOD player in 2010.


That's the problem and even Paxson himself said that we more than likely won't get one of those top players in the league. So really we will be waiting 2 years for nothing and making no progress because we would be waiting on these players to sign with us when more than likely none of them will.

kozelkid
07-11-2008, 12:02 PM
That's the problem and even Paxson himself said that we more than likely won't get one of those top players in the league. So really we will be waiting 2 years for nothing and making no progress because we would be waiting on these players to sign with us when more than likely none of them will.

says who?
camby+hughes=21mil expiring, plus gooden(7mil), and if we deal noci 8m or so. we have the cash, we have the market, and a young team in the making with rose, deng, noah, thomas, what isnt there to like for some young superstar.
not to mention would you ratherplay an aging overrated star, or develop thabo and even gordon, each who will in a year contribute MUCH more than carter.
we can very well have 36mil by 2010 if we play our cards right, and honestly would you rather have a joe johnson or a vince carter? dont think that's a hard choice

JordansBulls
07-11-2008, 12:10 PM
says who?
camby+hughes=21mil expiring, plus gooden(7mil), and if we deal noci 8m or so. we have the cash, we have the market, and a young team in the making with rose, deng, noah, thomas, what isnt there to like for some young superstar.
not to mention would you ratherplay an aging overrated star, or develop thabo and even gordon, each who will in a year contribute MUCH more than carter.
we can very well have 36mil by 2010 if we play our cards right, and honestly would you rather have a joe johnson or a vince carter? dont think that's a hard choice

That's the problem again. You are assumming that having the money means these guys will come to us. We had the money back in the day and were in the same situation. Grant Hill, Mcgrady, Duncan, Kidd, Kobe all became free agents and decided to mainly stay with their own teams. Only one who jumped ship was Mcgrady.
I don't like the idea of waiting 2 years in hope of getting someone like Joe Johnson who I might add is not as good as Vince Carter when we could get Vince Carter now and for cheaper.

Besides the only reason the nets want to trade or may want to is because they are the team more than likely to get Lebron in 2010 with his close friendship with Jay Z.


Here is how Vince Carter measured up with Joe Johnson last season.

Vince vs JJ (http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=cartevi01&y1=2008&p2=johnsjo02&y2=2008)

Vince
21.3 ppg / 6 rpg / 5.1 apg / 1.2 spg / 0.4 bpg / 45.6% fg / 35.9% 3pt / 81.6% ft / 55% TS / 18.8 PER / 38.9 mpg


JJ
21.7 ppg / 4.5 rpg / 5.8 apg / 1.0 spg / 0.2 bpg / 43.2% fg / 38.1% 3pt / 83.4% ft / 53.5% TS / 17.3 PER / 40.8 mpg

So yeah, VC was better.

kozelkid
07-11-2008, 12:13 PM
That's the problem again. You are assumming that having the money means these guys will come to us. We had the money back in the day and were in the same situation. Grant Hill, Mcgrady, Duncan, Kidd, Kobe all became free agents and decided to mainly stay with their own teams. Only one who jumped ship was Mcgrady.
I don't like the idea of waiting 2 years in hope of getting someone like Joe Johnson who I might add is not as good as Vince Carter when we could get Vince Carter now and for cheaper.

Besides the only reason the nets want to trade or may want to is because they are the team more than likely to get Lebron in 2010 with his close friendship with Jay Z.

(a) our team then was trash what player would want to come in and play with eddie robinson and company?
(b) our gm was krause enough said.
(c) vince carter better nto be on this team whether we win out in 2010 or not because as I said I gaurentee thabo and gordon can give much more in terms of productioni than vince carter can.

JordansBulls
07-11-2008, 12:23 PM
(a) our team then was trash what player would want to come in and play with eddie robinson and company?
(b) our gm was krause enough said.
(c) vince carter better nto be on this team whether we win out in 2010 or not because as I said I gaurentee thabo and gordon can give much more in terms of productioni than vince carter can.

Our GM Krause was responsible for us putting together a dynasty. He was the one who decided to trade Olden Polynice for a guy no one ever heard in Pippen and Pippen played with MJ and became one of the greatest players ever.
Don't put this on Krause. 6 Titles as the GM is enough for him not to get the blame for making a few errors later on.

You mention what Gordon and Thabo can give in production or JJ, but look at Vince Carter's playoffs numbers vs JJ or Gordon's and then we can talk.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsjo02.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cartevi01.html

As a matter of fact, here it is.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/encyc/Player.jsp

VC is top 10 in playoff ppg all time.

kozelkid
07-11-2008, 12:27 PM
Our GM Krause was responsible for us putting together a dynasty. He was the one who decided to trade Olden Polynice for a guy no one ever heard in Pippen and Pippen played with MJ and became one of the greatest players ever.
Don't put this on Krause. 6 Titles as the GM is enough for him not to get the blame for making a few errors later on.

You mention what Gordon and Thabo can give in production or JJ, but look at Vince Carter's playoffs numbers vs JJ or Gordon's and then we can talk.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsjo02.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cartevi01.html

As a matter of fact, here it is.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/encyc/Player.jsp

VC is top 10 in playoff ppg all time.

except vc did that 2-3 years younger. meanign he's getting worse and worse. also gordona nd thabo are getting better. you are living in the past that's your problem. what a player has doen 2-3 years ago, isnt going to do it now.

Deng's Rose
07-11-2008, 12:28 PM
Ummmm Jordans Bulls, JJ and Gordon are just getting their feet under them. VC hasnt done anything but quit on his team and never led his team to crap. The think is the Nets were better before VC got there.

JordansBulls
07-11-2008, 12:30 PM
except vc did that 2-3 years younger. meanign he's getting worse and worse. also gordona nd thabo are getting better. you are living in the past that's your problem. what a player has doen 2-3 years ago, isnt going to do it now.

The past. You are acting like Vince is 35 years old. In case you haven't noticed he, Pierce and Dirk all came in the league together and have a good 3-4 all stars years left in them. In fact, Gordon will only be as good as Carter about 4 years from now if that.

Vince is 31 and has next year and the next 2-3 seasons to be at a superstar level.

kozelkid
07-11-2008, 12:33 PM
The past. You are acting like Vince is 35 years old. In case you haven't noticed he, Pierce and Dirk all came in the league together and have a good 3-4 all stars years left in them. In fact, Gordon will only be as good as Carter about 4 years from now if that.

Vince is 31 and has next year and the next 2-3 seasons to be at a superstar level.

superstar level? LMFAO. he isnt even allstar, he averaged hardly 21ppg, he had a team with kidd and RJ and still couldnt do ****, and you call him a superstar lmfao :laugh:
and difference between vc and dirk and pierce, is that vince carter depended completely on athleticism while the other 2 didnt. not to mention I dont want pierce or dirk either because again they are going to be at least 33-34 when bulls are ready to compete, thus making them worthless overrated players again. we just made the same mistkae with wallace, yet you want to do it again with carter :rolleyes:

JordansBulls
07-11-2008, 12:35 PM
Ummmm Jordans Bulls, JJ and Gordon are just getting their feet under them. VC hasnt done anything but quit on his team and never led his team to crap. The think is the Nets were better before VC got there.

The nets were good in 2002 and 2003 when Kmart was around and part of 2004. When Kmart left that team hit rock bottom. It wasn't until Vince came to the team that they made the playoffs in 2005.
He averaged 27/8/6 and 2 in the playoffs that year and then 30/7/5 the next year.

The Nets were 34-23 with VC in 2005 and without him they were 8-17.

ackar
07-11-2008, 12:39 PM
I say give a 2nd round pick for VC and that is all if we can dump Hughes contract all the better.

kozelkid
07-11-2008, 12:39 PM
The nets were good in 2002 and 2003 when Kmart was around and part of 2004. When Kmart left that team hit rock bottom. It wasn't until Vince came to the team that they made the playoffs in 2005.
He averaged 27/8/6 and 2 in the playoffs that year and then 30/7/5 the next year.

The Nets were 34-23 with VC in 2005 and without him they were 8-17.

again, they had a team of kidd/carter/rj, if carter is indeed a "superstar" there should be no reason for them to not be dominating.
fact is carter is a borderline allstar at this point. and while that's good, you said it best when you said 2-3 seasons left. meaning, we wont be ready to compete for next 2-3 years anyway, and after that he will suck anyway and be a waste on this team.
I'd rather develop young prospects who actualyl will be part of this team down the road and help this team win then someone who can make you a little happy now with maybe 4 extra wins this season.
not to mention, I'd rather take a chance at getting a true star in 2010 who will ahve a future on this team than vince carter who will be the next ben wallace by 2010
again, stop looking at the past, this isnt the same vince carter and it will only get worse

JordansBulls
07-11-2008, 12:40 PM
superstar level? LMFAO. he isnt even allstar, he averaged hardly 21ppg, he had a team with kidd and RJ and still couldnt do ****, and you call him a superstar lmfao :laugh:
and difference between vc and dirk and pierce, is that vince carter depended completely on athleticism while the other 2 didnt. not to mention I dont want pierce or dirk either because again they are going to be at least 33-34 when bulls are ready to compete, thus making them worthless overrated players again. we just made the same mistkae with wallace, yet you want to do it again with carter :rolleyes:

Let me ask you something.

Do you consider Pippen a superstar or allstar?

Because he has only had one season in his career where he averaged more than 21 ppg and he had Hakeem and Barkley as well and they lost in the 1st round, but I guess it means he wasn't a star nor them right?
And that is with the team that you need, built around dominant big men.

You seem to forget that you aren't going to win in this league without a guy who can score in the post and that is what the nets were missing. Hell Kobe had two guys who could score in the post and rebound and didn't win it all.

Also the only duo that ever worked built around guys who played the PG, SG or SF position that worked well was MJ and Pippen.

I'll be back later gotta make an errand.

97'bulls
07-11-2008, 12:44 PM
NO, Rose won;t reach his potential

Seventh King
07-11-2008, 12:45 PM
It all depends on what VC's price would be. I would want Hughe's contract involved at the very least, and NJ isn't going to want that.

kozelkid
07-11-2008, 12:46 PM
Let me ask you something.

Do you consider Pippen a superstar or allstar?

Because he has only had one season in his career where he averaged more than 21 ppg and he had Hakeem and Barkley as well and they lost in the 1st round, but I guess it means he wasn't a star nor them right?
And that is with the team that you need, built around dominant big men.

You seem to forget that you aren't going to win in this league without a guy who can score in the post and that is what the nets were missing. Hell Kobe had two guys who could score in the post and rebound and didn't win it all.

Also the only duo that ever worked built around guys who played the PG, SG or SF position that worked well was MJ and Pippen.

I'll be back later gotta make an errand.

pippen also was one of the best defenders ever, pippen also was a great passing sf, pippen also got those numbers playing alongside one of the best scorers of all time. vince carter wasnt even the leading scorer on his team and he wasnt competiting against any jordan.
carter doesnt play defense, he gives up, he has an awful attitude, frankyl cant see hwo you can compare the 2, because carter's strength is scoring and he isnt even that good at that while some of pippen's strengths arent even shown through stats like, again, his great lockdown defense.

I agree we need a great post player, so where does carter come from? I'd rather save that money for that 2010 player that can be amare or bosh, especially if tyrus busts.
but again why waste on carter, when he screws the 2010 plan, screws the young players on our team who will get better and will likely actually be big part of this team UNLIKE carter who is going to decline cause he is near the end of his prime. Just doenst make sense why you want him so much. If you expect the numbers you presented me, you will be VERY dissappointed.

JordansBulls
07-11-2008, 02:30 PM
pippen also was one of the best defenders ever, pippen also was a great passing sf, pippen also got those numbers playing alongside one of the best scorers of all time. vince carter wasnt even the leading scorer on his team and he wasnt competiting against any jordan.
carter doesnt play defense, he gives up, he has an awful attitude, frankyl cant see hwo you can compare the 2, because carter's strength is scoring and he isnt even that good at that while some of pippen's strengths arent even shown through stats like, again, his great lockdown defense.

I agree we need a great post player, so where does carter come from? I'd rather save that money for that 2010 player that can be amare or bosh, especially if tyrus busts.
but again why waste on carter, when he screws the 2010 plan, screws the young players on our team who will get better and will likely actually be big part of this team UNLIKE carter who is going to decline cause he is near the end of his prime. Just doenst make sense why you want him so much. If you expect the numbers you presented me, you will be VERY dissappointed.

That's not what you said, you said a 21 ppg guy was not a superstar. I could also add that Duncan didn't average 21 ppg nor did Garnett, but I'm sure those guys count as superstars even top 3 players.

As for your other argument, let's think about the 2010 plan for a moment. What happens when we get none of those big time free agents, then what?

Then we have to continue to have the same players on our team and be a mediocore team for years. We could turn virtually into the Clippers or Twolves if that happens.

I also like how you mentioned in an earlier post about Joe Johnson.
Talking about someone who is overrated that is the guy who is seriously overrated.

The guy basically got a 5 year deal for 70 million at the time which was like 14 million a year and was never a star at the time. If he wanted that much when he wasn't really that good imagine how much he would wont in 2010? Guy would want at least 18-20 million a year.

I also found it funny when you mentioned Joe Johnson, but yet you say guys like Arenas, Melo, Carter, Iverson are overrated and then you freaking mention Joe Johnson as the piece that we could possibly get in 2010.
:laugh:
LMAO

VivaLaShark
07-11-2008, 04:37 PM
^ He is right If everyone is getting ready for signing big names in 2010 then what are the chances the Bulls get anyone at all. Then we are stuck with the left overs and have been in a rebuilding phase for essentially all of 20 years by then

Pran Raznor
07-11-2008, 04:57 PM
Vince Carter is a left over

IndyFan
07-11-2008, 07:50 PM
i think the bulls should go after vince carter. that would insure the pacers being above them in the standings for the next 5 yrs. :laugh2: vince is the angel of darkness. where ever he goes, bad thing happen. :hide: the bulls front office would have to be insane to go after carter. :crazy:

that said, i hope they do. :D

:)

Turtle55
07-11-2008, 08:58 PM
Why would we want a player who admittedly quit on the Raptors when they struggled? He has no heart, he is the same as Zach Randolph in my opinion. Only Randolph at least brings some youth with him.

JordansBulls
07-11-2008, 09:19 PM
Why would we want a player who admittedly quit on the Raptors when they struggled? He has no heart, he is the same as Zach Randolph in my opinion. Only Randolph at least brings some youth with him.

He quit on the Raptors big deal. He ain't going to quit on us. Besides T-mac mentioned he quit on the Magic, but still people want him.

The he has no heart is a myth. Iverson himself said that Vince Carter is one of the players that has the biggest heart in the league.

Turtle55
07-11-2008, 09:24 PM
He quit on the Raptors big deal. He ain't going to quit on us. Besides T-mac mentioned he quit on the Magic, but still people want him.

The he has no heart is a myth. Iverson himself said that Vince Carter is one of the players that has the biggest heart in the league.

How can you possibly say he won't quit on us? I also would prefer not to add Tmac either, maybe quitting runs in the family. I really don't think Iverson's statement changes everything we've seen from him. Did you not notice the Nets were in the finals and yearly contenders until they added Carter?

JordansBulls
07-11-2008, 09:33 PM
How can you possibly say he won't quit on us? I also would prefer not to add Tmac either, maybe quitting runs in the family. I really don't think Iverson's statement changes everything we've seen from him. Did you not notice the Nets were in the finals and yearly contenders until they added Carter?

Again, the Nets lost in the 2nd round in 2004 and they lost Kmart which meant they had no scoring in the paint. The next year in 2005 the Nets started 8-17 and then they traded for Vince and they went 34-23 to get into the playoffs.

Turtle55
07-11-2008, 09:37 PM
Again, the Nets lost in the 2nd round in 2004 and they lost Kmart which meant they had no scoring in the paint. The next year in 2005 the Nets started 8-17 and then they traded for Vince and they went 34-23 to get into the playoffs.

Look I understand that you are a big Carter fan, I've gathered that from your posts. I just wouldn't touch him if I had the choice. I thought giving him that huge contract was a huge mistake for NJ. I think he's a shot forcer who stops the ball and also an entire offense much the same way Zach Randolph does just from the sg spot instead of pf.

JordansBulls
07-11-2008, 09:39 PM
Look I understand that you are a big Carter fan, I've gathered that from your posts. I just wouldn't touch him if I had the choice. I thought giving him that huge contract was a huge mistake for NJ. I think he's a shot forcer who stops the ball and also an entire offense much the same way Zach Randolph does just from the sg spot instead of pf.

Vince Carter and Zach Randolph are no where near comparable. Zach Randolph has he ever even been to the playoffs? Has he ever carried a team their?

Deng's Rose
07-11-2008, 09:39 PM
He does but you have to admit that when his head is on straight and he has it going, he is as dangerous as they come.

With that said, he usually only plays on a high level for half of a season.

Deng's Rose
07-11-2008, 09:40 PM
Vince Carter and Zach Randolph are no where near comparable. Zach Randolph has he ever even been to the playoffs? Has he ever carried a team their?

Whoa there buddy who and where has Carter carried a team in the last 4 or 5 years? :rolleyes:

JordansBulls
07-11-2008, 09:41 PM
Whoa there buddy who and where has Carter carried a team in the last 4 or 5 years? :rolleyes:

Futher than Mcgrady or Melo has and the same distance as where Brand has taken a team.

Deng's Rose
07-11-2008, 09:48 PM
Ok but also look at what conference they are in. I mean hell we made it to the second round just a year ago in the weaker conference.

Melo was on a 50+ win team who just happens to have a harder route to the playoffs while you can make it in the East by winning what? 35 games?.......

Neways. If both Yao and Tracy ould stay healthy than that will be a hard to to get rid of. TMAC CARRIED his team to 20+ straight wins. He also SINGLE HANDEDLY sent the UTAH series to 7.

Turtle55
07-11-2008, 09:50 PM
Vince Carter and Zach Randolph are no where near comparable. Zach Randolph has he ever even been to the playoffs? Has he ever carried a team their?

Vince Carter hasn't carried NJ anywhere, Kidd was their best player by far. He had a good run with Toronto into the second round when he was young but that was before he became a jumpshooter and lost his heart. TMac and Melo are guys that I'm not a big fan of anyways, Brand has been to the second round before which is as far as Carter's ever been.

JordansBulls
07-11-2008, 11:20 PM
Vince Carter hasn't carried NJ anywhere, Kidd was their best player by far. He had a good run with Toronto into the second round when he was young but that was before he became a jumpshooter and lost his heart. TMac and Melo are guys that I'm not a big fan of anyways, Brand has been to the second round before which is as far as Carter's ever been.

:laugh:

Carter averaged 30/7/5 in the playoffs in 2006 when they got to the 2nd round and 27/8/6 in 2005. Now tell me, what did Kidd do?

Turtle55
07-11-2008, 11:32 PM
:laugh:

Carter averaged 30/7/5 in the playoffs in 2006 when they got to the 2nd round and 27/8/6 in 2005. Now tell me, what did Kidd do?

Control the offense, run the team, defend the other team's best perimeter player. But laugh it up because you're just all about stats.

JordansBulls
07-11-2008, 11:41 PM
Control the offense, run the team, defend the other team's best perimeter player. But laugh it up because you're just all about stats.

And shoot under 40% (in fact 37% with 12 ppg)

Turtle55
07-11-2008, 11:50 PM
I'm really excited to see what a Carter led team can do in Jersey this year. This should be really entertaining. About 20 wins is my guess.

Chicagofaithful
07-12-2008, 12:08 AM
both of you.. we're all bulls fans here... can't we just coexist? Who cares about a player that we won't go after anyway?

Turtle55
07-12-2008, 12:13 AM
both of you.. we're all bulls fans here... can't we just coexist? Who cares about a player that we won't go after anyway?

How dare you be a voice of reason in the middle of the night? You're right it's just there are certain players that I just absolutely don't like and Carter's one of them. I am confident we will never go after him and could not be happier about that. You are right though we are both Bulls fans, and I am seemingly one of the few who agree with jordansbulls that we should try to be competitive now and keep our young core in tact. We just disagree about which players can make that happen.

Kouki_Monstah
07-12-2008, 12:50 AM
i agree. keeping our young core is crucial. excluding this year, we've made the playoffs with young cores. If we can keep those guys, we'll be doing more than making the playoffs.

JordansBulls
07-12-2008, 07:44 AM
i agree. keeping our young core is crucial. excluding this year, we've made the playoffs with young cores. If we can keep those guys, we'll be doing more than making the playoffs.

The east is a whole lot better now and we haven't changed our game. We are still a jumpshooting team.

Turtle55
07-12-2008, 11:44 AM
The east is a whole lot better now and we haven't changed our game. We are still a jumpshooting team.

But we have changed in the fact that we can penetrate and create now. Adding any one on one perimeter players that take the touches away from our young guys just doesn't seem like a good fit to me.

JordansBulls
07-12-2008, 12:17 PM
But we have changed in the fact that we can penetrate and create now. Adding any one on one perimeter players that take the touches away from our young guys just doesn't seem like a good fit to me.

That doesn't offset how much better the conference has gotten though.

JordansBulls
07-12-2008, 12:24 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Carter



In the 2005-06 NBA season, he co-led the Nets to 49 wins, an Atlantic Division title, and the number three seed in the playoffs, while averaging 24.2 points, 5.8 rebounds, and 4.3 assists per game. He led the Nets to the second round of the playoffs before losing to the eventual NBA champions Miami Heat in five games. Carter averaged 29.6 points, 7.0 rebounds and 5.3 assists in 11 playoff games.

Deng's Rose
07-12-2008, 12:28 PM
You dont know if that is going to make anyone better though. You assume. JO will probably miss half of the season. Brand and IGGY might not gel and they still dont have a shooter. The Bucks, you cant say they are better because all they did was become the Nets.

The fact of the matter is, you are basing all of this on possibilty for 3 teams that made moves. 2 of them were in the playoffs and another was just a year or two removed from them.

Every other team in the East are getting better by growth as a team and you cant honestly say that we are a team that our record showed.

So no we arnt as bad as most wants us to be. Its just that yall let one bad year go to yall head.

Kind of reminds me of Kobe last year.

nolin
07-12-2008, 12:28 PM
:laugh:

Carter averaged 30/7/5 in the playoffs in 2006 when they got to the 2nd round and 27/8/6 in 2005. Now tell me, what did Kidd do?

How about we trade tyrus,gordon, and thabo for carter?

BigLebowski
07-12-2008, 12:45 PM
How about we trade tyrus,gordon, and thabo for carter?

How about you stop posting on this site? That is the worst idea i've ever heard. Why would we trade Tyrus and Thabo who have the chance of becoming rising stars in this league and Gordon who is arguably the best 6th man in the league for a washed up Vince Carter who will only take time away from our other young prospects.

But for real man was that serious?

JordansBulls
07-12-2008, 12:49 PM
How about we trade tyrus,gordon, and thabo for carter?

I'd do Hughes and Gordon is enough or Nocioni and Hughes.

KH12
07-12-2008, 12:54 PM
New Jersey doesn't want or need any more SFs, they just signed Najera and Jarvis Hayes.

nolin
07-12-2008, 01:20 PM
How about you stop posting on this site? That is the worst idea i've ever heard. Why would we trade Tyrus and Thabo who have the chance of becoming rising stars in this league and Gordon who is arguably the best 6th man in the league for a washed up Vince Carter who will only take time away from our other young prospects.

But for real man was that serious?

No it was a joke for JB who loves 2 of the most overrated players in the league Carter, and Anthony!

Turtle55
07-12-2008, 01:25 PM
You dont know if that is going to make anyone better though. You assume. JO will probably miss half of the season. Brand and IGGY might not gel and they still dont have a shooter. The Bucks, you cant say they are better because all they did was become the Nets.

The fact of the matter is, you are basing all of this on possibilty for 3 teams that made moves. 2 of them were in the playoffs and another was just a year or two removed from them.

Every other team in the East are getting better by growth as a team and you cant honestly say that we are a team that our record showed.

So no we arnt as bad as most wants us to be. Its just that yall let one bad year go to yall head.

Kind of reminds me of Kobe last year.

EXACTLY!

BigLebowski
07-12-2008, 01:40 PM
No it was a joke for JB who loves 2 of the most overrated players in the league Carter, and Anthony!

Haha yea I bet it was...:bs:

Chitowns Finest
07-12-2008, 03:41 PM
Vince Carter would upgrade over Ben Gordan

JordansBulls
07-12-2008, 06:03 PM
Vince Carter would upgrade over Ben Gordan

:clap::clap:

ATOMICBULL
07-12-2008, 06:32 PM
No because this is Rose's team now. Let him grow, bringing in VC would stunt his growth.

LOL THIS IS NOT ROSE'S TEAM HES A 19 YEAR OLD KID WHO WAS OUT PERFORMED IN THE SUMMER LEAGUE BY EVERY NOTABLE GUARD PICKED BEHIND HIM MAYBE HIS KNEE HINDERED HIS PERFORMANCE I DUNNO TIME WILL TELL BUT HE WONT BE OUR STARTING PG WHEN THE SEASON STARTS SO ITS NOT HIS TEAM YET IN 2 OR 3 YEARS MAYBE!

IndyFan
07-12-2008, 06:56 PM
Vince Carter would upgrade over Ben Gordan

this is more an argument for not resigning gordon than it is an argument for getting vince. carter is taller than gordon. but that is the extent of his virtues.

:)

tduncanspeaks
07-12-2008, 07:03 PM
No Thanks
The man has a gifted game but is not a winner

Pran Raznor
07-12-2008, 07:13 PM
Vince Carter = Isaiah Rider (on the court)

JordansBulls
07-12-2008, 07:25 PM
Vince Carter = Isaiah Rider (on the court)

You have got to be kidding me?

Vince beat Rider in every category
Vince vs Isiah (http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=cartevi01&y1=2008&p2=rideris01&y2=2002)



In fact although not as good of a player, Vince's numbers rival Kobe's.

Vince vs Kobe (http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=cartevi01&y1=2008&p3=bryanko01&y3=2008)

Deng's Rose
07-12-2008, 08:43 PM
Your not understanding though. No one is saying Vince Carter isnt a good player but he isnt a player to take us to the next level. If we bring him in, it hurts us financially and there is No One on the market to bring in to help him.

He couldnt get it done with Kidd and Jefferson and Miki Moore and Kristic.

No way he gets it done with Rose, Deng, TT, and Noah.

It would be a waste of a trade just to say we have a former allstar.

Chitowns Finest
07-13-2008, 12:14 AM
Gordan won't take us to the "Next Level" either

D. Rose will!

JordansBulls
07-13-2008, 09:35 AM
No it was a joke for JB who loves 2 of the most overrated players in the league Carter, and Anthony!

And Rose isn't?

Deng's Rose
07-13-2008, 10:02 AM
no, no more than every other top 2 picks in every single draft.

JordansBulls
07-13-2008, 01:16 PM
no, no more than every other top 2 picks in every single draft.

People said they wouldn't even trade him in a package for a top 5 player in the league in Wade. How is that overrating a guy who has never played a NBA game yet?

BigLebowski
07-13-2008, 01:53 PM
And Rose isn't?

What are you even trying to get at? It sounds like you get a hardon for Melo and Carter but were living in the real world. Not your Nba live minded league, Your probably still hoping to get Kobe in a bulls uniform aren't you? Rose is our point guard, if he isnt the future of the organization than we would of drafted for points (Beasley) over leadership. And people PLEASE PLEASE quit bringing up Rose's play in summer league. ITS SUMMER LEAGUE!!! Get real

Deng's Rose
07-13-2008, 01:58 PM
People said they wouldn't even trade him in a package for a top 5 player in the league in Wade. How is that overrating a guy who has never played a NBA game yet?

It isnt that people WOULDNT do it; it is that most people are more realistic than you in knowing that you dont trade the #1 pick. Do you seriously think that if Boston landed the #1 pick last year that they would have KG,Ray, or even PP?

That is the thing point blank. You just dont trade the #1 pick. Thats just a consenses because the #1 or #2 are suppose to be the SUPERSTARS out of the draft. Sure you have exceptions to the rule but still your not going to see that #1 pick traded.

Look at football, Randy Moss was probably the best Wide Reicever in football and he was only worth a 4th round pick.

I mean yes Wade is great but their is no need to give up the number 1 for him.

Also if we used your logic, why would Miami do it? Then they are doing the same thing you are calling us out on doing.

Overating is like what alot of people do with Gordon by saying if we trade him we wont be able to score. Hello, i mean we have scored without him befor, i men the guy isnt even consistent.They also dont realize that we have to get something in return if we trade him.

Thats overrating a guy. Not wanting to keep you first overall pick which is hard to get in the first place.

JordansBulls
07-13-2008, 02:32 PM
What are you even trying to get at? It sounds like you get a hardon for Melo and Carter but were living in the real world. Not your Nba live minded league, Your probably still hoping to get Kobe in a bulls uniform aren't you? Rose is our point guard, if he isnt the future of the organization than we would of drafted for points (Beasley) over leadership. And people PLEASE PLEASE quit bringing up Rose's play in summer league. ITS SUMMER LEAGUE!!! Get real



It isnt that people WOULDNT do it; it is that most people are more realistic than you in knowing that you dont trade the #1 pick. Do you seriously think that if Boston landed the #1 pick last year that they would have KG,Ray, or even PP?

That is the thing point blank. You just dont trade the #1 pick. Thats just a consenses because the #1 or #2 are suppose to be the SUPERSTARS out of the draft. Sure you have exceptions to the rule but still your not going to see that #1 pick traded.

Look at football, Randy Moss was probably the best Wide Reicever in football and he was only worth a 4th round pick.

I mean yes Wade is great but their is no need to give up the number 1 for him.

Also if we used your logic, why would Miami do it? Then they are doing the same thing you are calling us out on doing.

Overating is like what alot of people do with Gordon by saying if we trade him we wont be able to score. Hello, i mean we have scored without him befor, i men the guy isnt even consistent.They also dont realize that we have to get something in return if we trade him.

Thats overrating a guy. Not wanting to keep you first overall pick which is hard to get in the first place.



This question was asked a few times before

#1 pick what would you trade it for (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224880&highlight=Wade)


Would you trade the #1 pick for Dwyane Wade (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224509&highlight=Wade)

In the last one over 70% say they wouldn't trade the pick for Wade.

Deng's Rose
07-13-2008, 02:39 PM
yes EXACTLY, the PICK is what you dont give up. If we had the 4th pick and Rose fell to us, you would hear people say trade the STEAL for WADE. There is a difference. The number 1 pick just about outweighs everybody. The only 5 people i can see it being traded for is CP3,LBJ, Duncan,Kobe, or Dwight.

BigLebowski
07-13-2008, 02:40 PM
I never said anything about trading our 1st for Wade. So wherever your coming from right now has nothing to do with me. I'm just saying this isnt NBA live and our starting line up cant be Rose/Carter/Melo/Amare/ Howard. And it is about time all of you start getting happy with Rose/Gordon/ Deng/ Tyrus/ Noah

JordansBulls
07-13-2008, 02:45 PM
yes EXACTLY, the PICK is what you dont give up. If we had the 4th pick and Rose fell to us, you would hear people say trade the STEAL for WADE. There is a difference. The number 1 pick just about outweighs everybody. The only 5 people i can see it being traded for is CP3,LBJ, Duncan,Kobe, or Dwight.

You guys just have a lot of lofty expecatations for this Rose guy. Give me a guy who has proven he can lead a team when it matters most, not one who when favorite loses a 9 point lead in the last 2 minutes of a championship game and loses the game. It wasn't all on him, but the star has to get blame for that.

Deng's Rose
07-13-2008, 02:51 PM
ok so when LBJ was the first pick would you have traded him away for KG. I mean you dont just trade that pick. Their is a reason why it hasnt happened.

BigLebowski
07-13-2008, 02:52 PM
You guys just have a lot of lofty expecatations for this Rose guy

This Rose guy????? are you even a Bulls fan? This Rose kid should be embraced my man.

Turtle55
07-13-2008, 03:31 PM
I agree that you don't trade the number 1 pick. I can't remember it ever happening other than Orlando trading Webber for Penny. Most dynasties are built around players you draft yourself.

kozelkid
07-13-2008, 09:23 PM
That's not what you said, you said a 21 ppg guy was not a superstar. I could also add that Duncan didn't average 21 ppg nor did Garnett, but I'm sure those guys count as superstars even top 3 players.

As for your other argument, let's think about the 2010 plan for a moment. What happens when we get none of those big time free agents, then what?

Then we have to continue to have the same players on our team and be a mediocore team for years. We could turn virtually into the Clippers or Twolves if that happens.

I also like how you mentioned in an earlier post about Joe Johnson.
Talking about someone who is overrated that is the guy who is seriously overrated.

The guy basically got a 5 year deal for 70 million at the time which was like 14 million a year and was never a star at the time. If he wanted that much when he wasn't really that good imagine how much he would wont in 2010? Guy would want at least 18-20 million a year.

I also found it funny when you mentioned Joe Johnson, but yet you say guys like Arenas, Melo, Carter, Iverson are overrated and then you freaking mention Joe Johnson as the piece that we could possibly get in 2010.
:laugh:
LMAO

ya cause joe johnson unlike carter, melo, arenas, and even iverson, though I never included him and actually would like him. are scoring cancers. joe johnson is your tmac, your poor man's kobe if you will, he is a scoring 2 gaurd who can also dish and make everyone else happy BIG difference. Hell he played pg at times if you even watched him ever play.
And I'd take a carter at age 26 as I said before, I dont want a carter at age 31, who is getting worse and worse, who is overpaid and by the time his production will be needed he will be 34, not smart.
also, paying attention is nice, I said averaging LESS than 21ppg when your strength is scoring, definitly makes you a weak player. duncan and garnett's strength ISNT scoring. their strengths are defense, post play (generally wont be a high scorer in this day and age), and making everyone else on their teams better, that's why they win unlike carter who isnt even good at his biggest strength.
LMAO :laugh: vince carter is OVERRATED, OMGZ he can make cool DUNKS!

97'bulls
07-13-2008, 09:53 PM
yes EXACTLY, the PICK is what you dont give up. If we had the 4th pick and Rose fell to us, you would hear people say trade the STEAL for WADE. There is a difference. The number 1 pick just about outweighs everybody. The only 5 people i can see it being traded for is CP3,LBJ, Duncan,Kobe, or Dwight.

I wouldn't do it for Duncan or kobe

JordansBulls
07-13-2008, 10:48 PM
ya cause joe johnson unlike carter, melo, arenas, and even iverson, though I never included him and actually would like him. are scoring cancers. joe johnson is your tmac, your poor man's kobe if you will, he is a scoring 2 gaurd who can also dish and make everyone else happy BIG difference. Hell he played pg at times if you even watched him ever play.
And I'd take a carter at age 26 as I said before, I dont want a carter at age 31, who is getting worse and worse, who is overpaid and by the time his production will be needed he will be 34, not smart.
also, paying attention is nice, I said averaging LESS than 21ppg when your strength is scoring, definitly makes you a weak player. duncan and garnett's strength ISNT scoring. their strengths are defense, post play (generally wont be a high scorer in this day and age), and making everyone else on their teams better, that's why they win unlike carter who isnt even good at his biggest strength.
LMAO :laugh: vince carter is OVERRATED, OMGZ he can make cool DUNKS!

Let's not forget guys like Jordan and Karl Malone were top players in the league at 35. Jordan was the best in the league at 35 and Malone the next year once MJ left was top 3 at 35.

While I don't think Vince will be top 3 or 5 in this league, his production that he is giving now can last until 34-35 years old.

Deng's Rose
07-13-2008, 10:52 PM
ummmm do you realize your putting VC with athe best player arguably to dine a jersey and another guy who is arguably the best at his position?

kozelkid
07-13-2008, 10:59 PM
Let's not forget guys like Jordan and Karl Malone were top players in the league at 35. Jordan was the best in the league at 35 and Malone the next year once MJ left was top 3 at 35.

While I don't think Vince will be top 3 or 5 in this league, his production that he is giving now can last until 34-35 years old.

first of all, you cant honestly put vince carter alongside karl malone and jordan.
second, jordan also played a heck of a lot less than most players who played til age 35, with the retirements and all.
third, big men last longer than gaurds so comparing malone and carter is like apples and oranges.
fourth, carter is a player who used little actual skill and mostly his godly athleticism. had he actually worked harder as a younger player, he would have been a HOF without a doubt. I'd argue he was one of the most athletic players to ever come in. but he had a not so good work ethic, because of that, he is one who will decline rather early vs players like jordan and kobe who have incredible skill level along with athleticism and therefore can last longer ebcause of it, since athleticism usually leaves by age 30 or so

JordansBulls
07-13-2008, 11:00 PM
ummmm do you realize your putting VC with athe best player arguably to dine a jersey and another guy who is arguably the best at his position?

Yeah that is why I mentioned he could still produce what his own production is at 34-35 which is around 21/6/5 not what MJ or Malone were doing at 35.

Deng's Rose
07-13-2008, 11:04 PM
No because in the next couple of years those springs he calls legs arnt going to be to springy.

Also is Chitownbull said earlier in this thread, YES he is a great talent but he is putting up 22,6,6 one half of the season then the other half he is putting up 16/3/2. We might as well let Larry play the 2 and maybe him returning to an uptempo game he will be the guy he was in Washington.

JordansBulls
07-13-2008, 11:15 PM
No because in the next couple of years those springs he calls legs arnt going to be to springy.

Also is Chitownbull said earlier in this thread, YES he is a great talent but he is putting up 22,6,6 one half of the season then the other half he is putting up 16/3/2. We might as well let Larry play the 2 and maybe him returning to an uptempo game he will be the guy he was in Washington.

Actually his production increased the 2nd half of the season.

Deng's Rose
07-13-2008, 11:19 PM
i didnt say those were his stats. I was just stating he is not consistent. Plus he is old. Id rather stick with Gordon who gives us Carters point and Thabo who gives us Carters intangibles and actually plays defense.

JordansBulls
07-14-2008, 07:37 AM
i didnt say those were his stats. I was just stating he is not consistent. Plus he is old. Id rather stick with Gordon who gives us Carters point and Thabo who gives us Carters intangibles and actually plays defense.

When does Gordon give us Carter's points?


Carter averages 23.8 ppg and Gordon gives 18.0 ppg in the season while in the playoffs Carter averages 25.9 ppg and Gordon 19.0 ppg

Deng's Rose
07-14-2008, 09:17 AM
oh thank you for showing career stats. Vince just had a 21ppg avg this year. Wait didnt Gordon have that last year in 06-07 Oh yes, i think he did.

JordansBulls
07-14-2008, 10:19 AM
oh thank you for showing career stats. Vince just had a 21ppg avg this year. Wait didnt Gordon have that last year in 06-07 Oh yes, i think he did.

Wait, first you say Gordon gives VC's point production and then you use opposite years to prove it. And on top of that you use VC's year where he had another 20+ ppg scorer on the team.

Deng's Rose
07-14-2008, 11:19 AM
oh im sorry then Gordon averaged 18 points and Carter 21 while Carter played atleast 6 more minutes than him. So whats your point.

So what if he had another 20point scorer. He has had good scorers with him EVERY YEAR in JERSEY. Kristic, Moore, and Jefferson also scored with Carter during respective years.

He isnt a better scorer than Gordon all he does is put up crazy layups and doesnt bring anymore Defense to the plate at all.

JordansBulls
07-14-2008, 12:36 PM
oh im sorry then Gordon averaged 18 points and Carter 21 while Carter played atleast 6 more minutes than him. So whats your point.

So what if he had another 20point scorer. He has had good scorers with him EVERY YEAR in JERSEY. Kristic, Moore, and Jefferson also scored with Carter during respective years.

He isnt a better scorer than Gordon all he does is put up crazy layups and doesnt bring anymore Defense to the plate at all.

He isn't a liability on defense like Gordon is and won't get posted up like Gordon. We always have to help out on Gordon which leads to guys being open on the other team and easy buckets.

And people would come to the games for sure to see Vince play over Gordon.

Deng's Rose
07-14-2008, 12:40 PM
Ok yes your right Vince Carter is what we desparately need in order to be a contender. I mean he has been a contender his whole career just about.

JordansBulls
07-14-2008, 12:42 PM
Ok yes your right Vince Carter is what we desparately need in order to be a contender. I mean he has been a contender his whole career just about.

Getting Vince Carter shows that the Bulls organization is about making moves and not being stagnant. If the Bulls don't try to make big moves, then no one will come here in the future if they are trying to win.

Deng's Rose
07-14-2008, 12:47 PM
haha yeah they will. Keep on trying to tell yourself that. Just like the people stopped going to Cubs and Knick games right?

Yeah and making a move for a declining Superstar to put next to a 2 or 3 year working progress means they are trying to win.

Your making NO SENSE.

kozelkid
07-14-2008, 01:59 PM
He isn't a liability on defense like Gordon is and won't get posted up like Gordon. We always have to help out on Gordon which leads to guys being open on the other team and easy buckets.

And people would come to the games for sure to see Vince play over Gordon.

wait you are saying that gordon is a liability on defense but carter isnt, that carter will also bring more fans in? you arent making any sense
(a) bulls are already sold out every game and rose is more than enough help for that
(b)carter is even worse defensively cause he doesnt even care

also how can you say it's tougher for carter to score cause he's competiting against anotehr scorer, he had a HOF pg setting him up for mos tpart of the season, and when he didnt, it was him and jefferson and scrubs sharing the ball. while gordon had to share with deng, hinrich, gooden, hughes, point is vc isnt that much better offensively than gordon NOW. in his prime vc was very good but that's over and he isnt half the player he was then adn wont even be the quarter of the player in 2 years.
in why does a message have to be sent we can win now? cause vince carter isnt by an means that message. every intelligent fan realizes that, especially when we drafted a rookie pg who is expected to take on the reigns of this offense

JordansBulls
07-14-2008, 02:03 PM
haha yeah they will. Keep on trying to tell yourself that. Just like the people stopped going to Cubs and Knick games right?

Yeah and making a move for a declining Superstar to put next to a 2 or 3 year working progress means they are trying to win.

Your making NO SENSE.

Excuse me but didn't Denver do that with Iverson? Or how about the Rockets back in the day getting Pippen? Or last year with the Celtics getting KG?

And what's wrong with trying to win? You rather lose?
:confused:

kozelkid
07-14-2008, 07:09 PM
Excuse me but didn't Denver do that with Iverson? Or how about the Rockets back in the day getting Pippen? Or last year with the Celtics getting KG?

And what's wrong with trying to win? You rather lose?
:confused:

(a)denver had melo who was ready to win by then, and they arent exactly doing great now
(b) celtics and rockets werent a young team when tehy wanted to win, they were ready to win now. like I said before, in 2-3 years when bulls are ready to win now, then they can take a player around 29-31 who may be crucial to win now, but NOW when we clearly dotn have enough to win and carter clearly wont make enough of a difference for that (again, did he for the nets who had a HOF pg and a great sf?), it's kinda a pointless...

Storch
07-14-2008, 10:06 PM
Although the bulls can get carter for cheap... what would that do for the team? it would only ruin the chemistry of the bulls because he's gona assume that its his team. Besides he's getting old, im sure the bulls can land other good players. Maybe prince?

JordansBulls
07-19-2008, 01:28 PM
If we do any deal this is the one that is the most likely to happen where we bring in Vince Carter.

Right now the only guys we could use to get him would be to trade Nocioni and Hughes for him.

kozelkid
07-19-2008, 02:19 PM
If we do any deal this is the one that is the most likely to happen where we bring in Vince Carter.

Right now the only guys we could use to get him would be to trade Nocioni and Hughes for him.

most likely or a realistic deal.
It may be a fair deal (realistic), but it aint at all likely. It would be likely if we even heard one report about carter possibly being traded to the bulls. We didnt, therefore it isnt likely. It's a fair deal, but I dont think there's any chance of it happening cause pax knows it aint good in the longrun, and although he didnt mention really that we a technically rebuilding/retooling, when he drafted rose, it was pretty obvious that he plans on rebuilding and carter isnt exactly a rebuilding piece, so there isnt a chance of any deal for an overhill star, unless they have a nice expiring contract...

Blue Tiger
07-19-2008, 03:05 PM
(a)denver had melo who was ready to win by then, and they arent exactly doing great now
(b) celtics and rockets werent a young team when tehy wanted to win, they were ready to win now. like I said before, in 2-3 years when bulls are ready to win now, then they can take a player around 29-31 who may be crucial to win now, but NOW when we clearly dotn have enough to win and carter clearly wont make enough of a difference for that (again, did he for the nets who had a HOF pg and a great sf?), it's kinda a pointless...

That does make sense and it made me change my mind of trying to pursue Vine Carter. Vince did had a a great point guard witch was Jason Kidd and Thomas Jefferson has a good small forward. Him coming to the Bulls would fvcl< everything up, on the Bulls team he would be working with Derrick Rose has the point guard and a good small forward with Luol Deng. If he didn't do nothing with the Nets, he'll definatly do nothing with the Bulls and he's getting old so that's a double negative impact right there.

infinity2152
07-19-2008, 08:39 PM
What did he not do with J-Kidd and jefferson? He averaged like 25 and 6bds, and was a good finisher all year. the Nets problems were obviously not with Carter in the nets management minds, since he's the last man standing after the HOF pg and great SF. we need to make more changes, but who says this team can't win now? We pick up Vince, re-sign Deng and BG, and add a quality big, we should win a LOT of games in the East. Gordon gives you 20 pts a night of the bench, Derrick Rose should help, Deng and Tyrus are getting better, and we have like 4 head coaches on our coaching staff now, unlike the interim asst coach we had last year. VC gives us at least 20 pts starting on a team that ALWAYS needs scoring. Hughes and Noc for VC, and let Sefalosha play back-up SF. He's 6'7, I think. Let's us keep Hinrich too, because Rose wont play 30 mins a game, I think. And BG may not complain about coming off the bench behind Vince Carter. I dont blame him for being p**sd about coming behind Hughes and Sefalosha.

PG: Hinrich/Rose
SG: Vince Carter/BG
SF: Deng/Sefalosha/Nichols
PF: Thomas/Gooden
C: Noah/Gray/FA signing

The team comes together, we can go pretty far now.

kozelkid
07-19-2008, 08:47 PM
What did he not do with J-Kidd and jefferson? He averaged like 25 and 6bds, and was a good finisher all year. the Nets problems were obviously not with Carter in the nets management minds, since he's the last man standing after the HOF pg and great SF. we need to make more changes, but who says this team can't win now? We pick up Vince, re-sign Deng and BG, and add a quality big, we should win a LOT of games in the East. Gordon gives you 20 pts a night of the bench, Derrick Rose should help, Deng and Tyrus are getting better, and we have like 4 head coaches on our coaching staff now, unlike the interim asst coach we had last year. VC gives us at least 20 pts starting on a team that ALWAYS needs scoring. Hughes and Noc for VC, and let Sefalosha play back-up SF. He's 6'7, I think. Let's us keep Hinrich too, because Rose wont play 30 mins a game, I think. And BG may not complain about coming off the bench behind Vince Carter. I dont blame him for being p**sd about coming behind Hughes and Sefalosha.

PG: Hinrich/Rose
SG: Vince Carter/BG
SF: Deng/Sefalosha/Nichols
PF: Thomas/Gooden
C: Noah/Gray/FA signing

The team comes together, we can go pretty far now.

getting 25ppg doesnt make you great, arenas had over that and he's an allstar at best. and those days of vince's are far behind him. he was once good but he isnt anymore. they dealt their hof pg and sf because they were actually able to be dealt cause teams actually were willing to take them. thought about that? vince is "undealable" because he has a large contract that overpasses the magical 2010. he is overrated as can be, selfish player, and will only stunt the growth of sef. absolutely no reason to get him.

infinity2152
07-19-2008, 08:57 PM
Now Vince Carter is untradable?? It's amazing how almost every "untradable" player gets traded! Now, because you don't like VC, Obviously, there are plenty of other fans who wouldn't mind adding a 20+ pt scorer. You seriously think Kidd's contract was better than Carters? Hell, after J-Kidd left, the Nets payed better with Carter than the Mav's did with Kidd. And Arenas just got $111 mill. and was offered $127 mill. We should all be that bad.

infinity2152
07-19-2008, 08:59 PM
Plus, if Noc is moved, Sefalosha will back up Deng. With hughes and Noc traded for Vince, Sef's minutes will probably go up, not down.

infinity2152
07-19-2008, 09:02 PM
He also avg'd 6 assts a game, any of our shooting guards doing that? He's can't be as selfish as people say, and avg 6 assts on a non-playoff team, WITH J-kidd there most of the season.

kozelkid
07-19-2008, 09:09 PM
Now Vince Carter is untradable?? It's amazing how almost every "untradable" player gets traded! Now, because you don't like VC, Obviously, there are plenty of other fans who wouldn't mind adding a 20+ pt scorer. You seriously think Kidd's contract was better than Carters? Hell, after J-Kidd left, the Nets payed better with Carter than the Mav's did with Kidd. And Arenas just got $111 mill. and was offered $127 mill. We should all be that bad.

except kidd's is expiring this year, while vc's is expiring in 2011. a 20+pt scorer? a selfish scorer who makes his team worse because he cares about scoring more than the team winning. so what if team's overrate arenas, maybe there's a reason wizards did better without him. there are PLENTY of teams who did stupid things, his deal was worth that rashard lewis's if possible. funny how people cant learn their lessons after the whole wallace fiasco.


Plus, if Noc is moved, Sefalosha will back up Deng. With hughes and Noc traded for Vince, Sef's minutes will probably go up, not down..

I am for moving noci, but adding vc and where do you get minutes for thabo? vc and and deng both will demand over 30+mpg. now if you dump noci for expirings and simply buy out hughes or banish him to tim thomas land, then thabo will get FAR more playing time.


He also avg'd 6 assts a game, any of our shooting guards doing that? He's can't be as selfish as people say, and avg 6 assts on a non-playoff team, WITH J-kidd there most of the season.

that doesnt mean ****. tinsley also averaged over 8apg, and so did marbury(back when he was younger) and they are 2 of the most selfish players in teh league


ADDED: also when i say untradeable, i dont mean nets dont want to trade him cause they would love him, I mean he's untradeable cause no team is stupid enough to take him

infinity2152
07-19-2008, 10:44 PM
Tinsley and Marbury are pgs, much easier to get assists than when you're playing with Kidd. Anybody who gets 6 assists playing with Kidd can't be that selfish. he had more assts last year than 80% of the sg's in the league. And he played 39 min/gm last year, he's hardly washed up. We don't all have to get players with expiring contracts either. He's only 31, if we trade pieces to get him, I hope we have him at least till 2011. And he wouldn't play more minutes than Hughes and Noc combined for last year, he'd probably get 30-35 mins a game with the Bulls. How many minutes did Hughes and Noc combine for? And we were a good defensive team BEFORE we got Wallace, we are not a good offensive team before Carter. he fills a scoring need much more than Wallace filled a defensive need.

kozelkid
07-19-2008, 11:01 PM
Tinsley and Marbury are pgs, much easier to get assists than when you're playing with Kidd. Anybody who gets 6 assists playing with Kidd can't be that selfish. he had more assts last year than 80% of the sg's in the league. And he played 39 min/gm last year, he's hardly washed up.

(a) ya so getting more assists than 80% sgs clearly has alot to do with getting more pt than 90% of them as you stated. Also where did you get 6apg, he never had 6apg in his whole career, he barely had 5 this season. He also handled the ball ALOT more than you think and playing almost 40mpg you'd expect more assists either way.

(b) he has a seaosn or 2 to be a 20ppg type player. hell, he wasnt the leading scorer on his team and his team only had 2 options, him and RJ, if he was truly good he would have quite a bit more ppg. point is he decline like no other and will continue to do so.


We don't all have to get players with expiring contracts either. He's only 31, if we trade pieces to get him, I hope we have him at least till 2011.

like I said, he has already greatly decline, with less scoring options this season, his scoring dropped 4ppg, doesnt look good. you know why he's declining at 31 already, beause he is a plaeyr who greatly depanded on athleticism. Players who greatly depend on athleticism decline MUCh earlier since athleticism leaves at a much earlier age. He also is EXTREMELY inconsistent. look at his month splits, he makes gordon look the most consistent player in the league.


And he wouldn't play more minutes than Hughes and Noc combined for last year, he'd probably get 30-35 mins a game with the Bulls. How many minutes did Hughes and Noc combine for?

last year we also didnt have rose who would take more minutes, meaning hinrich and gordon(assuming we keep both which seems more and more likely we will), will take more minutes at sg. Also i dont even want noci cause he wont have much of a future with this team being (28). he is also overpaid and incosistent and I hope he's traded for expirings for 2010/ draft picks. Hughes I think will be banished to tim thomas land or even bought up. so ya he will take a crapload of min from gordon and hinrich who i think we will probably keep and deng and thabo.



And we were a good defensive team BEFORE we got Wallace, we are not a good offensive team before Carter. he fills a scoring need much more than Wallace filled a defensive need.

carter will make this team marginally better offensively and only for 2 seasons at most really.

also he hurt the 2010 plan ALOT. here you got a piece of junk paid 17mil or so in 2010, and you know he wont be part of your future anyway, so instead of having a nice 17mil or so to spend on a player we will need for the future and have much better production than vc at that point (potentially joe johnson, amare, bosh to name a few), we wont because vc and his crap contract will be here and we wont be able to build a team because 2011 FA is crap and we lose a great chance at picking a great piece in 2010.

Tyrus Thomas
07-19-2008, 11:06 PM
Tinsley and Marbury are pgs, much easier to get assists than when you're playing with Kidd. Anybody who gets 6 assists playing with Kidd can't be that selfish. he had more assts last year than 80% of the sg's in the league. And he played 39 min/gm last year, he's hardly washed up. We don't all have to get players with expiring contracts either. He's only 31, if we trade pieces to get him, I hope we have him at least till 2011. And he wouldn't play more minutes than Hughes and Noc combined for last year, he'd probably get 30-35 mins a game with the Bulls. How many minutes did Hughes and Noc combine for? And we were a good defensive team BEFORE we got Wallace, we are not a good offensive team before Carter. he fills a scoring need much more than Wallace filled a defensive need.

Yes but watching SC isnt going to help you. If you watch the Nets play, whenever VC gets the ball, everybody stops moving because he becomes a one man offense. Yes he gets assist but their the ones where he hits his big men in the lane.

Not that its bad but he get most of his assist in one quarter. There is a reason that both Kidd and Jefferson were traded and VC was not. If VC ever played as a 5 man offense ALL the time, he would be unstoppable. But no, he thinks that he can be Kobe or LBJ.

JordansBulls
07-20-2008, 09:41 AM
What did he not do with J-Kidd and jefferson? He averaged like 25 and 6bds, and was a good finisher all year. the Nets problems were obviously not with Carter in the nets management minds, since he's the last man standing after the HOF pg and great SF. we need to make more changes, but who says this team can't win now? We pick up Vince, re-sign Deng and BG, and add a quality big, we should win a LOT of games in the East. Gordon gives you 20 pts a night of the bench, Derrick Rose should help, Deng and Tyrus are getting better, and we have like 4 head coaches on our coaching staff now, unlike the interim asst coach we had last year. VC gives us at least 20 pts starting on a team that ALWAYS needs scoring. Hughes and Noc for VC, and let Sefalosha play back-up SF. He's 6'7, I think. Let's us keep Hinrich too, because Rose wont play 30 mins a game, I think. And BG may not complain about coming off the bench behind Vince Carter. I dont blame him for being p**sd about coming behind Hughes and Sefalosha.

PG: Hinrich/Rose
SG: Vince Carter/BG
SF: Deng/Sefalosha/Nichols
PF: Thomas/Gooden
C: Noah/Gray/FA signing

The team comes together, we can go pretty far now.

Exactly and he was getting like 27/8/6 and then 30/7/5 in the playoffs with the Nets