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View Full Version : Which Cubs DESERVE to be All Stars?



4cubs
06-26-2008, 04:22 PM
Cubs fans are voting like mad for Cubs players to make the all star team.

Setting aside loyalty, which Cubs objectively deserve to make the team?

My votes are for:

Theriot
Ramirez
Dempster
Marmol


Fukudome, Soto, and Soriano are having good years, but there are guys having better years at their positions.

Wrigleyboy25
06-26-2008, 04:23 PM
Zambrano
Dempster
Marmol
Ramirez

Your Name Here
06-26-2008, 04:25 PM
If you are going to rule out those 3 because others are having better years at their positions, then why do you have Theriot in your list?

behindmydesk
06-26-2008, 04:25 PM
I vote no for all star threads.

BornAYankee23
06-26-2008, 04:27 PM
Based off of a discussion/argument I had last night...

Who legitimately deserves to go over Soto and Theriot?

Jilly Bohnson
06-26-2008, 04:27 PM
No one deserves to start as a position player, but Ramirez, Soto and maybe Fukudome should be reserves, and Dempster, Z, Marmol, and Wood should probably all make it as pitchers.

Jilly Bohnson
06-26-2008, 04:29 PM
Based off of a discussion/argument I had last night...

Who legitimately deserves to go over Soto and Theriot?

Soto's slowed down a lot, McCann and Martin have both been better. I believe they take 3 catchers though so Soto should go as a reserve.

And at SS HanRam should be starting.

Your Name Here
06-26-2008, 04:30 PM
Based off of a discussion/argument I had last night...

Who legitimately deserves to go over Soto and Theriot?

Over Soto, there's really only one possibility. McCann. But it's real close.


Over Theriot, there's at least 3. Hanley, Reyes, and Tejada are all FAR above Theriot in terms of deservingness.

BornAYankee23
06-26-2008, 04:31 PM
Soto's slowed down a lot, McCann and Martin have both been better. I believe they take 3 catchers though so Soto should go as a reserve.

And at SS HanRam should be starting.

Thank you...


That's the exact argument I tried making...but was in the minority big time. I had to come home drunk and look up Sotos numbers because these fools really had me thinking he was having a HOF type year or something...

Cubs Fan 4Ever
06-26-2008, 04:31 PM
Fukudome...Soto....Ramirez...Demp....Z .....MArmol...Wood

BornAYankee23
06-26-2008, 04:33 PM
Over Soto, there's really only one possibility. McCann. But it's real close.


Over Theriot, there's at least 3. Hanley, Reyes, and Tejada are all FAR above Theriot in terms of deservingness.

I made an argument for Martin over Soto, but didn't have enough stats handy to really decide between them.

You are right though, it's really close at the C position.

Your Name Here
06-26-2008, 04:36 PM
I made an argument for Martin over Soto, but didn't have enough stats handy to really decide between them.

You are right though, it's really close at the C position.

Between Soto/Martin, unless you have a particular loyalty to one of the teams (such I as do) it really depends which side of the OBP/SLG thing you come down on. Martin's got 40 points of OBP on Soto, but Soto's got 65 points of SLG on Martin.

monkey balls
06-26-2008, 04:37 PM
Ramirez
Possibly Lee
Soto
Wood
Dempster
Z
Marmol

Jilly Bohnson
06-26-2008, 04:38 PM
Thank you...


That's the exact argument I tried making...but was in the minority big time. I had to come home drunk and look up Sotos numbers because these fools really had me thinking he was having a HOF type year or something...

Soto WAS having a HOF type year for the first two months, but he's had a rough June and Martin and McCann have passed him.

Your Name Here
06-26-2008, 04:46 PM
Soto WAS having a HOF type year for the first two months, but he's had a rough June and Martin and McCann have passed him.

I disagree about Martin, but McCann has crept past him.

monkey balls
06-26-2008, 05:26 PM
Soto WAS having a HOF type year for the first two months, but he's had a rough June and Martin and McCann have passed him.

I think it's all my fault I bought his jersey May 31st and since then no gooda at the plate. I think I might have to return it.

cubswoo
06-26-2008, 05:27 PM
I'm not a fan of making someone an all star over a hot start and a good first couple of months. I like to look at career and second half of last year as well as how they are doing right now.
To say that Theriot deserves to be an all star is absurd. He's having a great year but he is far from one of the top 3 shortstops in the NL

ChiCubs54
06-26-2008, 06:35 PM
Wood
Marmol
Zambrano
Dempster
Ramirez
Soto

4cubs
06-26-2008, 06:40 PM
I'm not a fan of making someone an all star over a hot start and a good first couple of months. I like to look at career and second half of last year as well as how they are doing right now.
To say that Theriot deserves to be an all star is absurd. He's having a great year but he is far from one of the top 3 shortstops in the NLWhat is supposed to be looked at for THIS year's all star team?

Do you reward someone who is only playing average but had a good last season or career or is just popular?

For all practical purposes, other than pitchers, popularity unfortunately decides the team. A bunch of loyal fans in a big city (like Chicago) can get someone on the team that may not deserve to be there. Conversely, a small market team may have deserving players but not the votes.

As for Theriot, he may equate to a "one hit wonder" in music. A band that only has one good song that ever tops the charts. However, you can't take anything away from that song. I'm not saying Theriot should start, but he has been one of the biggest catalysts on the team with the best record in baseball. That should count for something.

Your Name Here
06-26-2008, 07:17 PM
As for Theriot, he may equate to a "one hit wonder" in music. A band that only has one good song that ever tops the charts. However, you can't take anything away from that song. I'm not saying Theriot should start, but he has been one of the biggest catalysts on the team with the best record in baseball. That should count for something.

I ask you again....


If you are going to rule out those 3 because others are having better years at their positions, then why do you have Theriot in your list?

Jilly Bohnson
06-26-2008, 09:52 PM
I disagree about Martin, but McCann has crept past him.

I'd take 40 points of OBP over 60 points of SLG personally, plus Martin plays in a pitchers park while Wrigley's sort of neutral. Plus they're both great defenders so defense is a wash. Looking at it objectively I'd have to give a narrow edge to Martin, although I do think Soto should make it as the third catcher.

Milnertime
06-26-2008, 10:03 PM
I'd take 40 points of OBP over 60 points of SLG personally, plus Martin plays in a pitchers park while Wrigley's sort of neutral. Plus they're both great defenders so defense is a wash. Looking at it objectively I'd have to give a narrow edge to Martin, although I do think Soto should make it as the third catcher.
SLG does correlate better, however.

McCann, Soto, and Martin all deserve to go. McCann deserves to start.

Also, Aramis deserves a spot behind Chipper.

cubsbears1225
06-26-2008, 10:03 PM
Wood
Marmol (maybe)
Dempster
Zambrano (maybe)
Ramirez
Soto
Theriot (maybe)

Jilly Bohnson
06-26-2008, 10:14 PM
SLG does correlate better, however.

McCann, Soto, and Martin all deserve to go. McCann deserves to start.

Also, Aramis deserves a spot behind Chipper.

My understanding was that OBP was worth 1.8 times as much as SLG, so 60 points of SLG would be worth slightly less than 40 points of OBP. I could be wrong, but that's what my understanding/reasoning was. Although I'm pretty sure that they take 3 catchers, so as long as those three are the ones that go I'm happy.

And Aram definitely deserves a spot. Obviously Chipper has to start, but Aram has been much better than any other NL 3b. He's even been a good bit better than Wright.

redwhitenblue
06-26-2008, 11:27 PM
My understanding was that OBP was worth 1.8 times as much as SLG, so 60 points of SLG would be worth slightly less than 40 points of OBP. I could be wrong, but that's what my understanding/reasoning was. Although I'm pretty sure that they take 3 catchers, so as long as those three are the ones that go I'm happy.

And Aram definitely deserves a spot. Obviously Chipper has to start, but Aram has been much better than any other NL 3b. He's even been a good bit better than Wright.
That's too plain of a way to look at it
OBP itself is not any more valuable than SLG

In terms of correlation to runs, 1.8*OBP+SLG is better than simple OBP+SLG

Either way, Martin's porn stache eliminates him from consideration

CubsRule08
06-27-2008, 12:59 AM
Cubs fans are voting like mad for Cubs players to make the all star team.

Setting aside loyalty, which Cubs objectively deserve to make the team?

My votes are for:

Theriot
Ramirez
Dempster
Marmol


Fukudome, Soto, and Soriano are having good years, but there are guys having better years at their positions.

WHAT??? You would rather take Theriot over Soto? :pity:

Weebs11
06-27-2008, 04:18 AM
Dempster
Wood
Soto
Ramirez

Those are the the most deserving of the players. I think Marmol, Zambrano, Fukudome, Theriot, Soriano (if healthy) and even DeRosa could be backups on the team, however. If Hurdle decides to go with three second basemen, I think DeRo would make it behind Utley and Uggla. Most of the top-caliber NL shortstops aren't having particularly great years, although I'd still say Hanley, Reyes and Tejada deserve to be there over Theriot. Don't be shocked to see Fukudome being voted into the AS game every year as one of the top one or two OFs for the same reason Ichiro is every year.

WCF23
06-27-2008, 10:45 AM
Wood
Dempster
Ramirez
Soto

Theriot has no business competing for a spot in a game that is either going to have Hanley or Tajada as a starter. There should not be a Cub starter in the game, but I would say Soto is the closest to being the best at his position in the NL so maybe him. I would much rather be the best team in the NL than the team with the most players in the all-star game. It just means the Cubs are a great team and not a bunch of superstars, and great teams win championships.

Knuckles
06-27-2008, 10:52 AM
Zambrano
Dempster
Marmol
Soto (used to be a lock now hanging on by a thread)

Jilly Bohnson
06-27-2008, 01:33 PM
That's too plain of a way to look at it
OBP itself is not any more valuable than SLG

In terms of correlation to runs, 1.8*OBP+SLG is better than simple OBP+SLG

Either way, Martin's porn stache eliminates him from consideration

How so? 1.8*OBP+SLG has one of the very highest correlations to runs scored, after EQA and a bunch of super-obscure stats I believe. When looking at them both, which you should always do, you should give OBP more weight, 1.8 times more weight to be exact. That's why Fukudome has a higher EQA and RC/9 and VORP and all that crap than let's say Soriano, even though Soriano has 40 points of OPS on him.

WOwolfOL
06-30-2008, 02:16 AM
Man, Soto hot just his 2nd double of the month today. What a horrible june he's had. He deserves to be an all-star, though, IMO - 2nd behind McCann.

I think ARam, Wood, and Dempster are deserving also, but I agree they shouldn't start.

Your Name Here
06-30-2008, 02:45 AM
Man, Soto hot just his 2nd double of the month today. What a horrible june he's had. He deserves to be an all-star, though, IMO - 2nd behind McCann.

I think ARam, Wood, and Dempster are deserving also, but I agree they shouldn't start.

Yeah, Soto has tailed off something fierce after his scorching start.

I doubt anyone could seriously expect him to continue his 1.048 OPS numbers from April, but his .698 OPS thusfar in June is farther than I thought(hoped) he would fall.

WOwolfOL
06-30-2008, 02:52 AM
He'd at least have a 400 slg with a few doubles lol

bola300
06-30-2008, 08:06 AM
I see another great game for Mr. Worthless. Bases loaded just needing a hit again and swinging at the first pitch after walking the guy in front of him. Keep it up Ronnie, you'll be at .225 or traded sooner than you think. Throw in this boat anchor with any trade we make.

Dfan25
06-30-2008, 02:17 PM
Griffey has past Fukudome and Braun is just 33,000 votes behind Fukudome. To be fair Fukudome and Griffey don't deserve to make it although i voted for Fukudome :pity:

PaceIsTheTrick
06-30-2008, 02:31 PM
Soto, Rammy, Kerry, Z, and Demp. Soriano would have deserved it without the injury. Lee has been good, but Berkman, Pujols, Adrian have been better IMO.

maddog1941
06-30-2008, 03:50 PM
Here's who deserves to go:
Dempster
Z
Wood
Soto
AMRAM
Lee

MLB released current vote tally for NL and here's what it looks like who'll go for position Players:
Soto- leading catchers by 700k votes- STARTER
Soriano- Leading OF- STARTER
Fukudome- has a 28k lead for 3rd starting OF- STARTER
A. RAmirez- 2nd to Jones at 3rd base, but with Chipper on DL- STARTER
DeRosa- 2nd in total for 2B, so he may go
D.LEE- 3rd in total at 1B, he deserves a spot, but may not get one with all the Cubs getting starting nods.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080629&content_id=3030766&vkey=allstar2008&fext=.jsp

Chi-Town Finest
06-30-2008, 03:51 PM
All of em !!!!

maddog1941
06-30-2008, 04:03 PM
Chi-Town,

I've been meaning to ask you, "Who's the girl in your signature? Is that a younger Tyra?"

JMS
07-01-2008, 12:41 PM
Soto
Lee
Dero
Theriot
Rami
Sori
Fuku
Edmonds (since becoming a Cub)
Marmol
Z
Dempster

s2obed
07-01-2008, 01:09 PM
My votes are for:

Soto
Wood
Dempster
and Ramirez.

Soto has slowed down a bit but he should be there. I would have voted for Marmol 3 weeks ago but not now. Z still has a chance but he also missed two starts but he may still go with the 2 or 3 starts he has left before the game.

Blue Tiger
07-03-2008, 02:45 PM
I say Ramirez, Fukudome, Alfonso Sorianno, Derrick Lee and that Zambradio dude that pitches.

4cubs
07-03-2008, 02:48 PM
Chi-Town,

I've been meaning to ask you, "Who's the girl in your signature? Is that a younger Tyra?"
What's my Mom doing in Chi-Town's signature?:cry:

CubsRule08
07-03-2008, 02:50 PM
I say Ramirez, Fukudome, Alfonso Sorianno, Derrick Lee and that Zambradio dude that pitches.

:pity:

CubsRule08
07-03-2008, 02:50 PM
Chi-Town,

I've been meaning to ask you, "Who's the girl in your signature? Is that a younger Tyra?"

No...its an actress...her name is Meagan Good

giventofly
07-03-2008, 02:59 PM
I say Ramirez, Fukudome, Alfonso Sorianno, Derrick Lee and that Zambradio dude that pitches.
:worthy: