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Denverb2b
06-26-2008, 11:56 AM
Rumor is out around a few forums that a package which may include Kapono and Bargnani and other parts may be headed to Miami for Marion. This doesnt seem to match up salary wise but who knows what they got planned, I do know through media articles that Toronto wants Marion.

argo
06-26-2008, 11:58 AM
I love this idea, as long as we don't have to throw in AP

AFlagRules
06-26-2008, 11:59 AM
MARION-BOSH-O'NEAL

Calderon+Parker....


Nuff said..



I bought a Bargnani jersey a year ago though :(

VinceIsASally
06-26-2008, 12:00 PM
In a heartbeat I would make this deal. We would be beyond scary offensively and defensively with JO and Marion. I love it. Love how active BC is. He's changed the whole culture in Toronto has a place where players want to be. No chance we could have got any all-star caliber players prior to him being here. Financially though, we would need more then these two to match Marion's salary. Kapono and Bargs make approx. $11 between the two of them and Marion is at $17 mil.

DaoudS
06-26-2008, 12:01 PM
i will jizz my pants if that happens

B2B
06-26-2008, 12:04 PM
In a heartbeat I would make this deal. We would be beyond scary offensively and defensively with JO and Marion. I love it. Love how active BC is. He's changed the whole culture in Toronto has a place where players want to be. No chance we could have got any all-star caliber players prior to him being here. Financially though, we would need more then these two to match Marion's salary.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2987~2010~635~510&teams=14~14~14~28&te=&cash=

JaysAddict43
06-26-2008, 12:07 PM
omg.. WOW !

what's genious about this move is that raptors are not financialyl screwed for years to come
we can probably sign vet's with MLE
New big three? HM..
As well..it shows B.C. can amend his mistakes and address the change rihgt away :)

Raptors27
06-26-2008, 12:07 PM
if we trade for marion, its leaves us Bosh, Calderon, O'Neal, Marion, Delfino, Graham, Ukic, Humphries. 8 players and we would only have the MLE and vet-minimum to sign players which equals a bad bench.

Denverb2b
06-26-2008, 12:07 PM
bargnani-kapono-graham-hump for Marion

works in the trade checker, thats about all i see that could work, so we would have some filling in the gaps to do after the trade if it were to happen

Raptors27
06-26-2008, 12:08 PM
But don't get me wrong i would love to have marion i just think we would be giving up too much.

Acekicker123
06-26-2008, 12:08 PM
Is there a link somewhere for this? Even just one to another forum discussing it?

Denverb2b
06-26-2008, 12:09 PM
if we trade for marion, its leaves us Bosh, Calderon, O'Neal, Marion, Delfino, Graham, Ukic, Humphries. 8 players and we would only have the MLE and vet-minimum to sign players which equals a bad bench.

The theory would be to follow what Boston did, get a big three in place and fill in the gaps with solid role players that just want to win a championship and will play for the minimum salary.

You dont win championships with bench players, in the playoffs its your starters who decide games and get the bulk of the minutes

Denverb2b
06-26-2008, 12:10 PM
Is there a link somewhere for this? Even just one to another forum discussing it?

http://basketball.******.com/src_wiretap_archives/53205/20080626/raptors_pacers_and_clippers_interested_in_marion/

here is the link of the interest and a long time ****** member put forth the names involved in the rumor through his source who works for mlse

Raptors27
06-26-2008, 12:10 PM
yeah but with no bench you dont make the playoffs..lol

Raptors27
06-26-2008, 12:12 PM
i think i would rather trade for Jefferson, less money which means saving a player..but Marion would be awesome along side Bosh and O'neal on teh D.

Denverb2b
06-26-2008, 12:12 PM
bargnani-kapono-graham-hump for Marion

works in the trade checker, thats about all i see that could work, so we would have some filling in the gaps to do after the trade if it were to happen

So if this takes place we would be left with

JO-Rasho if he is bought out and resigned as rumored
Bosh-?
Marion-Moon
AP-Delfino
Jose-Ukic if signed

Fill in the rest with decent low salary players who want to win the ring

LittleBosh
06-26-2008, 12:13 PM
BC will have to trade away his mistake while it's marginally doable. There's no telling whether Bargnani's value will be any higher in February. Marion would have to be signed to at least 3 year extension in order for us not to lose him for nothing. Although I haven't been a huge fan of his, he would certainly upgrade our front court, albeit at an exorbitant price.

Acekicker123
06-26-2008, 12:16 PM
if we trade for marion, its leaves us Bosh, Calderon, O'Neal, Marion, Delfino, Graham, Ukic, Humphries. 8 players and we would only have the MLE and vet-minimum to sign players which equals a bad bench.

You forgot about Moon.

Use the MLE to sign a very good sixth man, or two solid role players.

Use the 2nd round pick to draft a solid late rotation big man.

Sign NBDL leading rebounder Rod Benson to be the 3rd string backup big.

Use the VM to get guys like Anthony Carter, Brian Skinner, Kenny Thomas, etc.

And with 4 stars playing 30-35 minutes a night, you won't have much need for a bench.

The Celtics did just fine.

Ragun
06-26-2008, 12:17 PM
Omg...i want to do someone!

Raptors27
06-26-2008, 12:20 PM
You forgot about Moon.

Use the MLE to sign a very good sixth man, or two solid role players.

Use the 2nd round pick to draft a solid late rotation big man.

Sign NBDL leading rebounder Rod Benson to be the 3rd string backup big.

Use the VM to get guys like Anthony Carter, Brian Skinner, Kenny Thomas, etc.

And with 4 stars playing 30-35 minutes a night, you won't have much need for a bench.

The Celtics did just fine.

yeah i noticed once i had wrote it i forgot Moon, but yeah you made some good points and i think it could work out and rasho might be back if the buy him out.

O'neal 35mpg
Bosh 38mpg
Marion 36mpg
Delfino 28mpg
Calderon 34mpg

doesnt leave much time for a bench

Dragan
06-26-2008, 12:22 PM
yeah ok, now we are in lala land. Rumors that ppl start on this thread are not real rumors, just wishfull tinking. and that link does not work.

VinceIsASally
06-26-2008, 12:23 PM
I don't know if I like this potential deal or Bargnani and Parker or Kapono for Rip Hamilton. I like the deal with Rip I think. His salary is actually less then what it could be and is very manageable for the quality of player he is. He is a proven winner who is mentally tough and has been through the trenches before and would be a great leader. Marion is a great player but has never been a great teammate and has complained about wanting the spotlight and to be the man. I just don't like that type of attitude. The only way three star player's can co-exist is when they all realize the need to sacrifice for the good of the team. Rip has done this is whole career. Plus we don't have to give up our entire bench for him. We get to keep either Parker or Kapono who are key role players.

B2B
06-26-2008, 12:27 PM
So if this takes place we would be left with

JO-Rasho if he is bought out and resigned as rumored
Bosh-?
Marion-Moon
AP-Delfino
Jose-Ukic if signed

Fill in the rest with decent low salary players who want to win the ring

With the recent news that we aqcuired the 41st pick my assumption is it's (Jawai)

O'Neal/Bosh/Hump/Jawai
Bosh/O'Neal/Marion/Hump/Graham
Marion/Moon/Graham
Smith/Delfino/lee or Weaver/Ukic
Calderon/?/Ukic/

We could sign a combo guard for 6mil ?.

I wish we could get J.R Smith for 6mil

I also believe BC was interested in (Courtney Lee, Kyle Weaver) in an aqcuired 2nd round pick.

hades
06-26-2008, 12:29 PM
no link? could be just a rumor then.

but talk about winning NOW if we land marion too

Ragun
06-26-2008, 12:30 PM
Man if this is true, Raptors would be the first team with the Big 4!

Ragun
06-26-2008, 12:31 PM
The Heat already has received overtures from the Raptors, Pacers, Clippers and several other teams regarding Shawn Marion, according to a source.

Marion is seeking the type of lucrative extension Heat President Pat Riley appears reluctant to consider.

Marion became eligible to be traded only after he allowed Tuesday's 6 p.m. opt-out deadline to pass.

Via Sun-Sentinel

Source: ******

Now their is a rumor that...

Elton Brand and #7 to Miami for Marion and #2.


Miami is reportedly considering sending the No. 2 pick and Shawn Marion to the Los Angeles Clippers for No. 7 and Elton Brand.

Source: ******

B2B
06-26-2008, 12:38 PM
What's smart about Signing Marion is if O'Neal gets hurt Bosh would play centre and Marion would play PF giving moon back his starting SF spot

Bosh
Marion
Moon
Delfino
Calderon

Still a good team if O'neal goes down.

Denverb2b
06-26-2008, 12:38 PM
yeah ok, now we are in lala land. Rumors that ppl start on this thread are not real rumors, just wishfull tinking. and that link does not work.

Its on the wiretap at real gm and it was la la land wishful thinking that landed boston Garnett and Allen to match with Pierce to wasnt it?

D.Pumps
06-26-2008, 12:39 PM
Mario can still opt out of his deal and renogotiate. Which i think would be a must if this deal was to work. Plus Marion and Colangelo are close so possible we get him for a discount. 13, 14 million.

D.Pumps
06-26-2008, 12:41 PM
IF so That means adding Graham is enough so

C-O'Neal
PF-Bosh Humphries
SF- Marion Moon
PG- Calderon Ukic
SG- Parker Delfino

Thats not a terrible bench considering we have MLE and Veteran
Plus it's colangelo. Finding something out of nothing is his thing.

I see Delfino moving for a pick.

bartlett2266
06-26-2008, 12:45 PM
I think they should try to go for Barganni and humphries for tayshaun prince
the money works out as well

B2B
06-26-2008, 12:49 PM
If you want to keep Parker the trade would have to be like this

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2987~2759~2433~2010~510&teams=14~14~14~14~28&te=&cash=

Down side is we would lose more front court depth & have 2 roster spots to fill aposed to one if we trade Parker insted.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2987~2010~635~510&teams=14~14~14~28&te=&cash=

O'Neal/?/?
Bosh/Marion/?
Marion/Moon
Parker/Delfino
Calderon/Ukic

B2B
06-26-2008, 12:50 PM
I think they should try to go for Barganni and humphries for tayshaun prince
the money works out as well

BC did mention Prince & Rip were the 2 players he liked from Detroit. It's a possibility

Dragan
06-26-2008, 12:50 PM
Its on the wiretap at real gm and it was la la land wishful thinking that landed boston Garnett and Allen to match with Pierce to wasnt it?

it was, and this still is. Is that rumor for trading marion for andrea, parker kapono, or was it for drading TJ? because the heat need a PG. and if that is teh case this rumor is dead.

Denverb2b
06-26-2008, 12:50 PM
The Clippers are now offering Brand + #7 pick for Marion + #2 pick

Denverb2b
06-26-2008, 12:52 PM
it was, and this still is. Is that rumor for trading marion for andrea, parker kapono, or was it for drading TJ? because the heat need a PG. and if that is teh case this rumor is dead.

The heat need more than a pg, rumor isnt dead but no one is saying it will happen either. There is several teams in the hunt for Marion and Toronto is trying.

B2B
06-26-2008, 12:54 PM
it was, and this still is. Is that rumor for trading marion for andrea, parker kapono, or was it for drading TJ? because the heat need a PG. and if that is teh case this rumor is dead.

It's a rumor right now but it's on top of the O'Neal trade though.

VinceIsASally
06-26-2008, 12:59 PM
Get Rip!!!

khanraymond
06-26-2008, 01:01 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-flspheatnote26sbjun26,0,7171482.story

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8283726/Reports:-O'Neal-deal-to-Raptors-not-done-yet


Looks like BC will either add Marion or Rip Hamilton.
Players on Raptor side being dicussed - Kapono, Bragnani, Parker and Humphris - not sure in what combination.

I'm not a big fan of the Marion trade because:
1)he was upset about being the 3rd option in PHX - so what would he do behind O'Neal and Bosh.
2)Toront addressed the Rebounding and Shot blocking - now they need to find a player that can create on the dribble.
3)Marion want an extension - and if he doesn't get it - another VC syndrome.

+ Moon and Delfino at SF isn't as bad as I thought - both produce for what they are paid. Both rebound. Both defend. While both are inconsistant, they really wouldn't have to be, since they are the 5 option on the starting line up (depending on who starts - I like Delfino, since Moon can guard both forward positions at 6'8-6'9).

Thats why Kapono, Bragnani for Hamilton is the trade that I'm feeling. But supposedly Detroit wants a couple future 1st rounders for their rebuilding process - but really, who cares. With Hamilton, Calderon, Bosh and O'Neal, we should be a top team (and late first round picks).

The Big three of Hamilton, Bosh and O'Neal would be comparable to Allen, Pierce and Garnett - maybe not as good, but then again - role players like Calderon, Delfino, Parker, Moon and Humphris + MLE would give the Raptors a better overall team.

ramz.n
06-26-2008, 01:04 PM
You forgot about Moon.

Use the MLE to sign a very good sixth man, or two solid role players.

Use the 2nd round pick to draft a solid late rotation big man.

Sign NBDL leading rebounder Rod Benson to be the 3rd string backup big.

Use the VM to get guys like Anthony Carter, Brian Skinner, Kenny Thomas, etc.

And with 4 stars playing 30-35 minutes a night, you won't have much need for a bench.

The Celtics did just fine.

You make a very good pt...i don't see why there so much hype around Marion...remember JAMARIO MOON...plays same position...just as athletic...he can shoot ( mechanics much better than Marion)..he can rebound..he blocks shots and most importantly he wont cost you 17m..i think we should just stick with Moon, hes only a sophmore next year and forgot hes younger then Marion

Raptors27
06-26-2008, 01:05 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-flspheatnote26sbjun26,0,7171482.story

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8283726/Reports:-O'Neal-deal-to-Raptors-not-done-yet


Looks like BC will either add Marion or Rip Hamilton.
Players on Raptor side being dicussed - Kapono, Bragnani, Parker and Humphris - not sure in what combination.

I'm not a big fan of the Marion trade because:
1)he was upset about being the 3rd option in PHX - so what would he do behind O'Neal and Bosh.
2)Toront addressed the Rebounding and Shot blocking - now they need to find a player that can create on the dribble.
3)Marion want an extension - and if he doesn't get it - another VC syndrome.

+ Moon and Delfino at SF isn't as bad as I thought - both produce for what they are paid. Both rebound. Both defend. While both are inconsistant, they really wouldn't have to be, since they are the 5 option on the starting line up (depending on who starts - I like Delfino, since Moon can guard both forward positions at 6'8-6'9).

Thats why Kapono, Bragnani for Hamilton is the trade that I'm feeling. But supposedly Detroit wants a couple future 1st rounders for their rebuilding process - but really, who cares. With Hamilton, Calderon, Bosh and O'Neal, we should be a top team (and late first round picks).

The Big three of Hamilton, Bosh and O'Neal would be comparable to Allen, Pierce and Garnett - maybe not as good, but then again - role players like Calderon, Delfino, Parker, Moon and Humphris + MLE would give the Raptors a better overall team.

i agree hamilton is the better move for us but i would rather trade parker and bargs and keep kapono.

VinceIsASally
06-26-2008, 01:11 PM
i agree hamilton is the better move for us but i would rather trade parker and bargs and keep kapono.

Either or really. There is no question the deal to make is for Rip. He is the ultimate winner and team player and his salary expires in 09-10 just like JO. He will make 10.5 mil this year and 11.3 in his final year. We move into win now mode but don't sacrifice any part of our future by getting locked into bad contracts. You know exactly what you are getting in Rip. With Marion you have the attitude and a guy who wants an extension worth at least 15 mil a year. No question that the Rip deal is the one to pursue.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2987~635~294&teams=8~8~28&te=&cash=

+ Our first round draft pick next year.

So Bargnani, Parker and our 2009 1st Round Pick
for
Richard Hamilton

B2B
06-26-2008, 01:17 PM
Either or really. There is no question the deal to make is for Rip. He is the ultimate winner and team player and his salary expires in 09-10 just like JO. He will make 10.5 mil this year and 11.3 in his final year. We move into win now mode but don't sacrifice any part of our future by getting locked into bad contracts. You know exactly what you are getting in Rip. With Marion you have the attitude and a guy who wants an extension worth at least 15 mil a year. No question that the Rip deal is the one to pursue.

Rip can't play PF, if O'Neal gets hurt Marion's ability to play PF would come in handy as he would help add more depth to the front court in that aspect whereas Rip cannot. Marion is the better option in my opion because of this.

Acekicker123
06-26-2008, 01:18 PM
Either or really. There is no question the deal to make is for Rip. He is the ultimate winner and team player and his salary expires in 09-10 just like JO. He will make 10.5 mil this year and 11.3 in his final year. We move into win now mode but don't sacrifice any part of our future by getting locked into bad contracts. You know exactly what you are getting in Rip. With Marion you have the attitude and a guy who wants an extension worth at least 15 mil a year. No question that the Rip deal is the one to pursue.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2987~635~294&teams=8~8~28&te=&cash=

+ Our first round draft pick next year.

So Bargnani, Parker and our 2009 1st Round Pick
for
Richard Hamilton

Too much. I'd rather use the MLE to get a decent wing/guard, and just stand pat with our youth.

ramz.n
06-26-2008, 01:20 PM
Um ... i believe we have bosh at pf...o'neal at c..rip cant play c but i dont think marion can as well...unless you go super small

Ragun
06-26-2008, 01:23 PM
I would love Prince in a Raps uniform.

Acekicker123
06-26-2008, 01:25 PM
Bargnani + Graham for Prince?

Probably not enough.

D.Pumps
06-26-2008, 01:28 PM
We're Going to have to trade Bargs and Kapono. So if the difference is adding Joey Graham. It's really no difference at all.

D.Pumps
06-26-2008, 01:30 PM
Adding Marion makes Parker a better player as well.

B2B
06-26-2008, 01:35 PM
Um ... i believe we have bosh at pf...o'neal at c..rip cant play c but i dont think marion can as well...unless you go super small

Marion played PF in Pheonix and Amare played Centre this would be pretty much the equivalent Marion is a PF/SF.

I know Bosh is our PF but with the insuing trades our front court depth would be lacking. Marions ability to handle the PF spot would be a bonus to adding depth to our front court whereas Rip cannot. I'm not suggesting that he play PF but he's insurance to play the position if need be.

If we got Rip and O'Neal got hurt

Bosh
Moon
Kapono
Rip
Calderon

If we got Marion and O'Neal got hurt

Bosh
Marion
Moon
Delfino
Calderon

INSURANCE

ramz.n
06-26-2008, 01:37 PM
but then Marion's extention...O'neal puts us in a great situation in 2010 where the FA market is huge...with Marion..it is unlikely we can go after another super star because we have to resign bosh

B2B
06-26-2008, 01:41 PM
but then Marion's extention...O'neal puts us in a great situation in 2010 where the FA market is huge...with Marion..it is unlikely we can go after another super star because we have to resign bosh

Marion is 16 mil expiring in 09

Unrestricted Free agent class in 09

Brand
Boozer
Odom
Maggette
etc....

If his contract negotiations break down we could either sign & trade or let him walk and sign a free agent. Either way we have options and flexibility.

Mile High Champ
06-26-2008, 01:52 PM
Im actually going insane right now. I mentioned Hamiton and Marion earlier this morning but still would like to see some articles to back it up.

Halladay
06-26-2008, 02:03 PM
It would be a good deal IF Marion would be willing to sign an extension. Trading Bargnani for a one year player would be stupid.

lukeem21
06-26-2008, 02:03 PM
bargnani, kapono, humphries and graham for matrix works

leaving us with an real nice starting 5... but then just moon and delfino comming off the bench and no chance to really draft anyone that can play serious minutes... if BC can make some more Jamrio Moon signings one at pg and one or two in the post then we'd be a DAMN good team...

Shaun Livingston will be a FA but he will probably be too much$

anyways heres a list of FA big men we might be able to pick up
Scott Pollard
Jamal Magloire (come on)
Theo Ratliff
Alonzo Mourning (hahahhhhah)
Melvin Ely
blah blah blah

the more likely scenario is that we end up with the likes of someone like
Jamal Sampson, Marcus Haislip and John Lucas (barring Ukic) and we hope for the best, which could work out great using them as role players but if Oneal goes down, or anyone else, it could go very wrong very fast

khanraymond
06-26-2008, 02:09 PM
Marion is 16 mil expiring in 09

Unrestricted Free agent class in 09

Brand
Boozer
Odom
Maggette
etc....

If his contract negotiations break down we could either sign & trade or let him walk and sign a free agent. Either way we have options and flexibility.

I really don't think you trade based upon the possibility one of your major stars is going to be hurt. And if O'Neal did get hurt, I don't think Bosh is going to start at Centre - thats why you have a bench.

second, the Marion deal would require giving Parker, Kapono and Bragnani just to make it work. That's alot. Granted, the Raptors would have one of the best front line with Marion/Bosh/O'Neal - our backcourt would be weak with only Calderon, Delfino and MLE. Then you have Graham, Moon and Humphris backing up Marion, Bosh and O'Neal - not that great of a back up bench either.

And I think your underestimating one fact. Marion was on a championship calibre team, and whinned his way to the worst team in the league rather than except his role to win a championship. Hamilton has been a top SG for years on one of the best teams for the last 5-6 years. So in Toronto, where there will be diminished roles all around - who is more likely to accept it and try to win championship.

And also - say for example O'Neal did get hurt, and Bosh started playing C and Marion at PF - wasn't Marion upset about being used as a PF? Why is he going to be okay with it in Toronto?

And the discussion better Parker or Kapono - who ever gets trade, the other one will back up Hamilton. So who would you have come off the bench - Parker or Kapono - 1 year vs. 3 years - starter for the last 2 years and a bench player - Mr. MVP vs. Mr.3PT - defensive+40% 3PT vs. no-defense+50% 3PT.

The big question would be - can BC convince Dumars for the 29th pick and include Graham if R. Lopez or Bantom or Jordon drop that far - if he did that I would tattoo BC for Priminster on my left cheek and start handing out flyers.

Fion
06-26-2008, 02:25 PM
I still think he holds onto bargs. IMo this is them calling us not us calling them.

T.O-Fan
06-26-2008, 02:25 PM
i really like kapono he is a solid player i dont like marion he isent the person were looking for mabye someone like gerald wallace or deng some one that is good and there price is not to hiii and if we trade up for one of those guys we save money and players

T.O-Fan
06-26-2008, 02:26 PM
what do you guys think??????

ramz.n
06-26-2008, 02:26 PM
I still think he holds onto bargs. IMo this is them calling us not us calling them.

Agree 100% ..were in a great situation.. i remember when people argued that Ford had no trade value and the raptors couldn't get anythnig ..any how Bargnani is a bust..if this were true ..they wouldn't be in such high demand atm :D

T.O-Fan
06-26-2008, 02:36 PM
like when marion shoots he starts the ball at his knees
hahahahaahahahahahh

Dragan
06-26-2008, 02:37 PM
It's a rumor right now but it's on top of the O'Neal trade though.

id rather go for rip.

B2B
06-26-2008, 02:51 PM
I really don't think you trade based upon the possibility one of your major stars is going to be hurt. And if O'Neal did get hurt, I don't think Bosh is going to start at Centre - thats why you have a bench.

second, the Marion deal would require giving Parker, Kapono and Bragnani just to make it work. That's alot. Granted, the Raptors would have one of the best front line with Marion/Bosh/O'Neal - our backcourt would be weak with only Calderon, Delfino and MLE. Then you have Graham, Moon and Humphris backing up Marion, Bosh and O'Neal - not that great of a back up bench either.

And I think your underestimating one fact. Marion was on a championship calibre team, and whinned his way to the worst team in the league rather than except his role to win a championship. Hamilton has been a top SG for years on one of the best teams for the last 5-6 years. So in Toronto, where there will be diminished roles all around - who is more likely to accept it and try to win championship.

And also - say for example O'Neal did get hurt, and Bosh started playing C and Marion at PF - wasn't Marion upset about being used as a PF? Why is he going to be okay with it in Toronto?

And the discussion better Parker or Kapono - who ever gets trade, the other one will back up Hamilton. So who would you have come off the bench - Parker or Kapono - 1 year vs. 3 years - starter for the last 2 years and a bench player - Mr. MVP vs. Mr.3PT - defensive+40% 3PT vs. no-defense+50% 3PT.

The big question would be - can BC convince Dumars for the 29th pick and include Graham if R. Lopez or Bantom or Jordon drop that far - if he did that I would tattoo BC for Priminster on my left cheek and start handing out flyers.

The trade is not based on that aspect but the fact that Marion can play the PF gives more depth. The more positions a player can play gives more options & depth. Sure our back court would need depth but not as much as if O'neal got injured for our front court.

I'm not forgetting anything BC was Marion's GM before. If BC likes him it's for a reason, who knows Marion better than BC?. The mere fact that BC is interested should tell you something. If his issues as you pointed out is true don't you think that BC knows the man enough to know if it would be a problem.

Mile High Champ
06-26-2008, 02:54 PM
I dont think we have enough salary to get marion. We can get a guy around 10-11 million though. Bargs and parker maybe?

B2B
06-26-2008, 02:58 PM
like when marion shoots he starts the ball at his knees
hahahahaahahahahahh

True he's got an ugly shot but he's one of the best SF defenders in the league. He's second only to Iverson for all time leader in steals, that's even more impressive considering he's a big man and not a guard. This trait shows his hand eye co-ordination, speed, and versatility.

B2B
06-26-2008, 03:00 PM
I dont think we have enough salary to get marion. We can get a guy around 10-11 million though. Bargs and parker maybe?

Jefferson is an option at 12mil with NJ looking to move his contract.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=1006~2987~2759~635&teams=28~17~17~17&te=&cash=

a_sutcliffe
06-26-2008, 03:00 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-flspheatnote26sbjun26,0,7171482.story

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8283726/Reports:-O'Neal-deal-to-Raptors-not-done-yet


Looks like BC will either add Marion or Rip Hamilton.
Players on Raptor side being dicussed - Kapono, Bragnani, Parker and Humphris - not sure in what combination.

I'm not a big fan of the Marion trade because:
1)he was upset about being the 3rd option in PHX - so what would he do behind O'Neal and Bosh.
2)Toront addressed the Rebounding and Shot blocking - now they need to find a player that can create on the dribble.
3)Marion want an extension - and if he doesn't get it - another VC syndrome.


That is a big concern for me. I also can't see him re-signing...especially if he wants to be the go-to guys. But he would be a pretty big expiring contract at the deadline, and we could probably get something good for him.

Mile High Champ
06-26-2008, 03:02 PM
This is from the mock draft at espn. Chad ford said this about the Grizz pick at 28.


The skinny: The Grizzlies are trying to move this pick, but if Hickson is here, they should grab him. They need toughness in the paint, and Hickson has tremendous upside.

This could be an option if we want to get back in the draft.

pebloemer
06-26-2008, 03:03 PM
This is from the mock draft at espn. Chad ford said this about the Grizz pick at 28.This could be an option if we want to get back in the draft.

A very good option at that. With the two workouts and what he brings, Hickson sounds coveted by the raps.

nstojic
06-26-2008, 03:03 PM
marion or rip? i would take rip.. great shooter.. character guy... proved winner.. plus, he expires in 2010.. in line with JO..when the raps wanna dip into FA's

Ramon Nivar
06-26-2008, 03:04 PM
If we could actually grab Marion while also getting O'Neal... :drool: Normally I'm not a huge fan of Marion's game, but in our situation he is exactly what we need.

B2B
06-26-2008, 03:06 PM
This is from the mock draft at espn. Chad ford said this about the Grizz pick at 28.



This could be an option if we want to get back in the draft.

Hickson would be a great pick.

Mile High Champ
06-26-2008, 03:06 PM
Jefferson is an option at 12mil with NJ looking to move his contract.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=1006~2987~2759~635&teams=28~17~17~17&te=&cash=

I wonder if this is going to happen... It would make sense.

Mile High Champ
06-26-2008, 03:07 PM
Its done Jefferson is going the Bucks! for Yi and Simmons!

Fion
06-26-2008, 03:08 PM
between marion or rip? RIP.

marion will be a huge concern for him, hes obviously got locker room issues and gets disgruntled. But this wont happen, they need money to make sure they resign caulderon.

B2B
06-26-2008, 03:13 PM
By the way, this delay also means there are still two weeks for other teams to get in on this trade and make it more than a two-way deal. (With luck, maybe it morphs into one of those indecipherable five-way deals that somehow involve the rights to an international player who was drafted five years ago but never got a sniff of the league. I have visions of Roberto Dueñas and Sergei Lishouk waiting anxiously by the phone to find out their new "team.")

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=Onealtrade-080625

argo
06-26-2008, 03:14 PM
Marion.. gives us exactly what we need - awesome D (can guard almost any position! - remember him guarding Tony Parker in the playoffs?), rebounding + he can knock down 3's

JermanJaysFan
06-26-2008, 08:48 PM
I was thinking about this recent Jefferson trade (Jefferson for Yi and Bobby Simmons), and I think that it potentially signifies that Bargnani isn't going anywhere. Pretty weak conclusion, I know, but if the Nets were willing to deal Jefferson for a young, finesse big like Yi and salary filler, I am sure that they would have come calling about Bargnani as well. Maybe it is too much of a stretch, but just something that crossed my mind.

nstojic
06-26-2008, 09:17 PM
remember guys, we'd have to match almost 18 mil in salary...

Sn1ch_Turna
06-26-2008, 09:30 PM
would love it , but im not buying it until i hear about it from more places then a rumor website

star
06-26-2008, 10:15 PM
wont happen .... we would be closer to getting RIP

possibly even for kapono moon and future 1st

kenzo400
06-26-2008, 11:01 PM
I think Marion is a great player but i don't think he fits in the equation that well. He can clearly play the small forward, but is better suited for the power. Plus this rumour has no validity, its just talk. The smarter thing would have been to get Richard Jefferson, or even now Rip Hamilton. But then again i don't think we have the right pieces to land Rip at this point. While Detroit is offloading their players, they still aren't keen on completly rebuilding. They would not want to take someone like Bargani, and Kapono while being one of the best pure shooters is just a worse version of Rip Hamilton.

AgentViet
06-26-2008, 11:27 PM
I'll give basically anyone outside of Bosh/Calderon for Marion.

Reilly98
06-27-2008, 12:43 AM
if we trade for marion, its leaves us Bosh, Calderon, O'Neal, Marion, Delfino, Graham, Ukic, Humphries. 8 players and we would only have the MLE and vet-minimum to sign players which equals a bad bench.

The deal would be great for the raps because you get that top small forward guy they have been looking for in marion. the deal would work if heat throw in cook who it looks like they want to get rid of, and the raps will have to throw in kapono, bargnani, humphries, graham. they will be left with 10 players in Calderon, Bosh, O'neal, Marion, Parker, Moon, Delfino, ukic, cook, and the guy drafted at 41 in jawai who looks like he plays alot like maxielle, but either way you sign 3 role guys who want to win most likely grab a center,point guard, and a wing or another big guy incase of injury to O'neal or Bosh. Toronto would then become a legitment team to contend for the championship and also would give Bosh hope that raps want to win and help decision in signing back with us in 2010.

D.Pumps
06-27-2008, 01:02 AM
Marion Opts Out Signs a three year deal starting at 12.5 Mil

T.O- Bargnani Kapono Graham
for
Mia- Marion Chalmers

T.O. sign restricted FA J.R. Smith.
Resign Primo Brezec (am i the only one who liked him?)

C-O'Neal Brezec Jawai
PF-Bosh Humphries
SF-Marion Moon
PG-Calderon Ukic Chalmers
SG-Smith Parker.

Boston is

C-Perkins
PF-Garnett Powe
SF-Pierce Scalbrine
PG-Rondo Giddens
SG-Allen Allen

I like our chances. And if we're not aiming for Boston. Why bother playing.

The Claw
06-27-2008, 01:17 AM
I think with Miami taking Beasley, IMO Marion will be reduntant to them.

So this rumor may have legs to it (when there is smoke there is fire)

pauljames
06-27-2008, 01:48 AM
Marion Opts Out Signs a three year deal starting at 12.5 Mil

T.O- Bargnani Kapono Graham
for
Mia- Marion Chalmers

T.O. sign restricted FA J.R. Smith.
Resign Primo Brezec (am i the only one who liked him?)

C-O'Neal Brezec Jawai
PF-Bosh Humphries
SF-Marion Moon
PG-Calderon Ukic Chalmers
SG-Smith Parker.

Boston is

C-Perkins
PF-Garnett Powe
SF-Pierce Scalbrine
PG-Rondo Giddens
SG-Allen Allen

I like our chances. And if we're not aiming for Boston. Why bother playing.

If smith could be more mature that would be such a premium lineup. We need better defence though, some celtic style defence.

reevanson
06-27-2008, 02:14 AM
I really don't know about this trade, I really like Marions game, but if he was unhappy playing with Nash and Amare, in a system that really showcases his game, that makes me a little nervous about locker room chemistry.

carlo4444
06-27-2008, 04:59 AM
link dont work(:?

Fion
06-27-2008, 05:03 AM
this is a stretch. though maybe marion is not happy being there.

Still i think marion doesnt like this and if we get him , we have problems affording caulderon. NO i dont see this trade happening, b4 ford maybe, not now.

TO Fan
06-27-2008, 06:56 AM
Marion Opts Out Signs a three year deal starting at 12.5 Mil

T.O- Bargnani Kapono Graham
for
Mia- Marion Chalmers

T.O. sign restricted FA J.R. Smith.
Resign Primo Brezec (am i the only one who liked him?)

C-O'Neal Brezec Jawai
PF-Bosh Humphries
SF-Marion Moon
PG-Calderon Ukic Chalmers
SG-Smith Parker.

Boston is

C-Perkins
PF-Garnett Powe
SF-Pierce Scalbrine
PG-Rondo Giddens
SG-Allen Allen

I like our chances. And if we're not aiming for Boston. Why bother playing.

Couple things wrong with this.

A. Marion is not opting out of 17m due to him this year. No way in hell.
B. We're losing three players for two, leaving us with no one on the bench.
c. I did a salary cap analysis in one of the other threads and without signing calderon and delfino, we're already a million over salary cap. But we are $9m under LT threshold. I'm guessing that 9 m will go to calderon and delfino.


This means we can't sign players like jr smith or james posey. We need to bring in player in league min or vet minimum...Unless someone restructures a deal.

carlo4444
06-28-2008, 09:10 AM
this will mAKE us a champ contender easy

carlo4444
06-28-2008, 09:24 AM
they will have a big chance to win the title of they get him

Ragun
06-28-2008, 11:12 AM
Raptors should go at JR Smith.

B2B
06-28-2008, 11:32 AM
Raptors should go at JR Smith.

Agree 1000% good suggestion

LittleBosh
06-28-2008, 12:24 PM
I'm not all that excited about the idea of getting Marion. Again, we continue to be in a dire need of a true slashing SF who can create his own shot and get to the line at will. That's not Marion. If anything, he's an undersized PF. Colangelo, with his suddenly scarce trading chips, should go out of his way to go after Maggette via sign and trade. Bundle up Bargs, Kapono and Joey and sign Maggette to a 4 year deal in the neighborhood of $60M. No, I don't want to hear any more bull**** about importance of the Raps cap flexibility going forward and how Colangelo is set to pursue big name FAs in 2010. :bs:
With Maggette and Rasho back:pray:, our roster would appear to be set with no obvious holes in it and, hopefully, the Raps would be able to compete in the East:

PG: Calderon/Ukic/Cheap backup
SG: Parker/Ukic/Cheap backup
SF: Maggette/Moon
PF: Bosh/O'Neal/Hump
C: O'Neal/Rasho/Jawai

michaellui11
06-29-2008, 01:51 AM
funny if kapono went back again

kylem4711
06-29-2008, 04:08 AM
what about maggette for bargnani and kapono?

the trade for marion doesn't work at all.

DaoudS
06-29-2008, 09:48 AM
what about maggette for bargnani and kapono?

the trade for marion doesn't work at all.

even i think thats giving up too much for Maggette, and i can't stand Bargs

Rapthug
06-29-2008, 09:52 AM
Oh my God......why would we want Marion?? He would be a one year rental. He also has that TJ Ford character flaw of sulking when he doesn't get the ball. He'll be the 3rd option and he won't be happy. People are comparing having Bosh, JO, and Marion to Bostons big three......there is zero comparison. The Boston three are all pro's with high character. JO and Marion do not fit that mold. Adding Marion would posion the locker room.

AntwanN21
06-29-2008, 09:53 AM
Well This is what im thinking straight up

Bargnani,Kapono,Future 1st rounder

For

Richard Hamilton

The pistons are looking to rebuild and want good solid young guys.This works financially as well in trade checker.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trademachine?teams=8~28&players=2987~2010~1724&sendto=8~8~28&from=28~28~8&te=na~na~na




Bosh,Oneal,Moon,Hamilton,Calderon

And with Parker backing him up! Im smell Conference Finals!:):cool::clap:

Ragun
06-29-2008, 10:56 AM
Well This is what im thinking straight up

Bargnani,Kapono,Future 1st rounder

For

Richard Hamilton

The pistons are looking to rebuild and want good solid young guys.This works financially as well in trade checker.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trademachine?teams=8~28&players=2987~2010~1724&sendto=8~8~28&from=28~28~8&te=na~na~na




Bosh,Oneal,Moon,Hamilton,Calderon

And with Parker backing him up! Im smell Conference Finals!:):cool::clap:

I would do that deal. We give up a lot but I think its worth it. Calderon and Hamilton back court is just plain scary.

jrice9
06-29-2008, 11:21 AM
I would do that deal. We give up a lot but I think its worth it. Calderon and Hamilton back court is just plain scary.
I am a little worried that rip is past his prime. He also might just be a product of the Pistons system. He is a good option but we would kill our future with that deal and the JO one combined

Ragun
06-29-2008, 11:35 AM
I am a little worried that rip is past his prime. He also might just be a product of the Pistons system. He is a good option but we would kill our future with that deal and the JO one combined

He is a jump shooter. Best in the game along with Kapono. He is realy fit. does he even seem likes hes 30 too you? Look at ray allen. he is the oldest of the big 3. hamilton still has a good 3-5 years on him. he keeps in shape.

D.Pumps
06-29-2008, 12:09 PM
Just Clarify the three thing wrong with Marion for Kapono Bargs and Graham

Lets be real. It's not three for one. It's Two for one. Graham won't do dick here.

Calderon would be our Larry Bird Exception Which i believe makes him exempt from Luxury Tax.

And Delfino isn't coming back.

There u go

ramz.n
06-29-2008, 01:13 PM
Oh my God......why would we want Marion?? He would be a one year rental. He also has that TJ Ford character flaw of sulking when he doesn't get the ball. He'll be the 3rd option and he won't be happy. People are comparing having Bosh, JO, and Marion to Bostons big three......there is zero comparison. The Boston three are all pro's with high character. JO and Marion do not fit that mold. Adding Marion would posion the locker room.

high character...this is bs..Garnett wanted out of Minnesota..Pierce wanted out of Boston..Allen was the only person who felt betrayed by the sonics from the surprising trade..in the Raptors situation..O'neal realized his time as a pacer was done jsut like Garnett..and when they were both traded they appreciated the GM's for trading them to a team that could contend..i doubt pacers fans would boo O'neal because of all the work he has done for that organization and same with Garnett when he was with the wolves.

jaysfan4ever
06-29-2008, 01:14 PM
why get marion when we can probably get childress (RFA) for a much cheaper price money-wise and talent-wise (we could probably do bargnani & graham for childress & prospect). Childress's game fits exactly what we need offensively (a quality slasher to complement our shooters, who's freakishly athletic and takes high pct shots). Defensively, I haven't heard much about him, but someone as athletic as he is should be a good defender. Oh ya and here's the best part, he just turned 25 years old.

Rapthug
06-29-2008, 01:39 PM
Garnett is not a character guy?? You gotta be kidding. Likely the best teammate in the league. Plays all out all the time. He spent forever in Minnie and never came out and said he wanted to be traded. Personally, I bet he wanted to but he didn't declare it like some/most do. Pierce was the same way.....he played on a lot of crappy teams but never said he wanted to be traded. My point in my post was that Marion would be a bad addition....he would be back in the same situation as he was with the Suns where he thought he should be the man. I have my doubts how Bosh and JO will play together as JO is used to the offense being run through him all the time.....I think they'll be fine because of Bosh.....but if you were to add Marion....I dunno.....there are much better fits that would be more of a long term solution. I like Childress....he would be a great addition.

B2B
06-30-2008, 01:06 PM
With an eye toward a 2010 offseason that could include the free-agent likes of LeBron James, Chris Bosh, Kobe Bryant, Amare Stoudemire and his own Dwyane Wade, Heat President Pat Riley does not want to be caught short.

If a max-money free agent should become available in 2010, Riley wants to have the cash sitting on the table.

The reasoning, Riley said, is you can't go into the 2010 offseason telling a top-tier free agent to be patient, that you'll somehow create the cap space then. Further, Wade's opt-out deadline in 2010 is before the start of that summer's free agency. In other words, in June 2010 the Heat has to be able to convince Wade that it will have the resources to at least make a run at buddies such as James and Bosh.

"We're going to 99.9 percent try to create the room and let those players see that we have the room," Riley said of 2010. "Once a player sees that a team has the room, and they may have an opt-out, they see how things can change. If they don't see you have it, and you tell them, 'Well, we're going to get it,' then they don't believe you. They're smarter than that."

"We're going to line up our contracts," he said. "We've got about a half dozen different formats and hypotheticals."

Among those hypotheticals could be a trade of forward Shawn Marion for multiple players. For example, the start of free agency could present an opportunity for a sign-and-trade deal with Golden State for free agents Mickael Pietrus and Andris Biedrins, who would fill multiple needs on a team sorely lacking quality depth.

Riley also has to consider that power forward Udonis Haslem becomes a free agent in that 2010 offseason.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-flspheat30sbjun30,0,3654312.story


To make a long story short Haslem's contract is in line with 2010 Marion's is not. I'm certain Marion will be moved for 2y contracts which the Raps have to offer.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2759~2433~2010~635~510&teams=14~14~14~14~28&te=&cash=

This trade allows BC to retain Bargs.

Toronto trades

Anthony Parker
Salary: $4,350,000 Years Remaining: 2

Jason Kapono
Salary: $5,356,000 Years Remaining: 3

Kris Humphries
Salary: $2,522,913 Years Remaining: 4 Replace Hump with Delfinos 2.7 mil Contract 1y.

Joey Graham
Salary: $1,596,600 Years Remaining: 2

Miami Trades

Shawn Marion
Salary: $16,440,000 Years Remaining: 2

Marion comes off the books prior to 2010 but because he's going to demand max money so he will end up tying up Heat's cap space come 2010

Haslem expires in 2010 which makes him the keeper.

Why Hump can be moved? - Jawai is a similar player. If replaced by Delfino 2.7mil we get to keep another big body plus Delfinos contract is 1y
Why Parker can be moved? - He's aging
Why Graham can be moved? - Nuff said
Why Kapono can be moved? - Riley likes him

O'Neal/Bargs/Jawai/Benson League minimum
Bosh/Bargs/Humphries/Marion
Marion/Moon/Pietrus
JR Smith/Pietrus (MLE)/Ukic/Adams League minimum
Calderon/Ukic/Vet PG Hunter League minimum

We would still need another combo guard but this trade allows Bargs to stay.

Tom Stone
06-30-2008, 01:21 PM
If we put Barg back to his regular spot.... Small Forward , I wan't to keep him..If we plan to use him at Center then trade him....for value

Numbers
06-30-2008, 01:44 PM
Toronto will need to use the MLE to sign Ukic and Jawai and bench fillers.
There would be no money left for the other signings.
Management made the O'Neal trade in part to solidify and shorten the number of rotation players. All these dream deals are just that, dreams.

MLSE will not let BC go into luxury tax terrritory especially when they are anticipating lean times for the Leafs over the next few years.

Next big splash contract wise for the Raptors will be in the 2010 free agent year.
Bosh in his prime, Calderon in his prime, Bargs hopefully over the Soph jinx and in his prime (if not they don't exercise their option), and close to 40 million to spend without going into luxury tax

B2B
06-30-2008, 01:51 PM
New Jersey is in the same position as Miami.

“If we brought back the same group, it wouldn’t give us the opportunity to be the kind of team we wanted to be. We still have a lot of players, a lot of young players who will need time. But it gives us the opportunity and flexibility to accomplish what we want to accomplish.”

In the last four months, Jefferson and Jason Kidd have become ex-Nets, and the team isn’t done adding and subtracting.

Reports circulated that the Nets also considered moving Vince Carter for cap flexibility

Other moves seem to be coming. The Nets still need a backup shooting guard. They likely will continue to shop Marcus Williams, see if they can include Keith Van Horn in a trade and try to utilize some of their other assets — a $3.3 million trade exception

Whatever they do, the summer of 2010 will be in their thoughts.

http://www.northjersey.com/sports/nets/Nets_get_new_faces_and_younger_stronger_up_front.h tml

The Nets have only $36 million earmarked toward player salaries that summer, and the removal of Carter's four-year contract would cut that in half.

This trade also allows us to retain Bargs.

Toronto Trade

Anthony Parker
Salary: $4,350,000 Years Remaining: 2

Jason Kapono
Salary: $5,356,000 Years Remaining: 3

Kris Humphries
Salary: $2,522,913 Years Remaining: 4 Replace with Delfino's 2.7mil 1y

Joey Graham
Salary: $1,596,600 Years Remaining: 2

Nets Trade

Vince Carter
Salary: $13,325,000 Years Remaining: 5

Marcus Williams
Salary: $1,180,200 Years Remaining: 2

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=136~3039~2759~2433~2010~635&teams=28~28~17~17~17~17&te=&cash=

O'Neal/Bargs/Jawai/Benson (LM)
Bosh/O'Neal/Bargs
Artest or Pietrus (MLE)/Carter/Moon/Bargs
Carter/Artest or Pietrus (MLE)/Ukic/Adams (LM)
Calderon/Marcus williams/Ukic

B2B
06-30-2008, 01:59 PM
Toronto will need to use the MLE to sign Ukic and Jawai and bench fillers.
There would be no money left for the other signings.
Management made the O'Neal trade in part to solidify and shorten the number of rotation players. All these dream deals are just that, dreams.

MLSE will not let BC go into luxury tax terrritory especially when they are anticipating lean times for the Leafs over the next few years.

Next big splash contract wise for the Raptors will be in the 2010 free agent year.
Bosh in his prime, Calderon in his prime, Bargs hopefully over the Soph jinx and in his prime (if not they don't exercise their option), and close to 40 million to spend without going into luxury tax

Ukic & Jawai can be signed under the (RE) Rookie exception their salarys won't effect the cap.

Under League Minimum there's no limit to the amount of players you can sign.
Once we get our 10 man rotation we just fill the roster out with the (LM)

Our 10 man Rotation

O'Neal/Bargs
Bosh/Humphries
Marion/Moon
Pietrus (MLE)/Delfino
Calderon/Ukic

We have the MLE (5.5mil) to possibly sign a swing player on top the Carter deal. Artest, if he's willing to take a pay cut to be on a contender and Pietrus come to mind.

Numbers
06-30-2008, 03:11 PM
Ukic & Jawai can be signed under the (RE) Rookie exception their salarys won't effect the cap.

Under League Minimum there's no limit to the amount of players you can sign.
Once we get our 10 man rotation we just fill the roster out with the (LM)

Our 10 man Rotation

O'Neal/Bargs
Bosh/Humphries
Marion/Moon
Pietrus (MLE)/Delfino
Calderon/Ukic

We have the MLE (5.5mil) to possibly sign a swing player on top the Carter deal. Artest, if he's willing to take a pay cut to be on a contender and Pietrus come to mind.


The issue is not the the exceptions that can be used (everything I've read regarding Rookie Exception says that it applies only to first round draft picks and as both Jawai and Ukic are second round picks that would eat up a portion of the MLE ) but it is the issue of the total salary.

The exceptions allow the teams to sign players with no consideration for the cap but they do not allow the teams to avoid the luxury tax threshold.

I think BC has said he can spend up to the tax but must get approval from MLSE board to go over it.

Raptorzz
06-30-2008, 04:06 PM
i wouldn't do this trade. marion isn't that good and we would not be contenders. I would only trade ab if we can get someone like McGrady..thats when we can be contenders not with marion. Seeing that won't happen i would rather go for jefferson instead of marion but hes not available now. Jefferson's salary is good too.


Calderon Parker Jefferson Bosh Oneal.

Raptorzz
06-30-2008, 04:08 PM
OR Barney for Beasley

T.O-Fan
06-30-2008, 04:30 PM
kapono isent going anywhere bc is going to sign him for sure

shatty
12-08-2008, 02:47 PM
i will jizz my pants if that happens
lmao dude

JermanJaysFan
12-08-2008, 02:48 PM
I don't know why this got bumped back up...