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69centers
06-23-2008, 06:32 PM
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/basketball/bal-sp.steele23jun23,0,6833286.column

Now we can all see what he can really do being the back-up to Rondo, starting out from the beginning of training camp and getting to go a full season with the team. And we now know why he didn't play in Game 6. He told Doc to let the rest of the guys enjoy it, and didn't want to go in the game. That's a pretty classy move in my book. Too bad Scal was inactive and couldn't get out there.

K2OB4E
06-23-2008, 07:06 PM
I hope its not with the Celtics.

op12
06-23-2008, 07:14 PM
i think we could use him, especially if house leaves. maybe pruitt will get some pt next year too.

69centers
06-23-2008, 07:15 PM
I hope its not with the Celtics.

Name me a better backup PG you'd want to come here then? One who's got better APG (6) and PPG (16) averages than Cassell.

rufo4100
06-23-2008, 07:17 PM
I'd like to see the Celtics bring in a guy like Earl Watson or even Tyron Lue as a solid backup PG...a solid backup "true" PG who looks to pass first, shoot 2nd. Im not sure I want Cassell back, not sure what else to say besides im just not sure.

K2OB4E
06-23-2008, 07:20 PM
Name me a better backup PG you'd want to come here then? One who's got better APG (6) and PPG (16) averages than Cassell.

Did you not watch the Celtics this year? Every time Sam was in, he didn't run the offense, he looked for his own shot. You realize how little he played during the playoffs? I want a point guard that can run the offense... I haven't looked at the free agent market but there are a lot of good back up point guards out there.

69centers
06-23-2008, 07:27 PM
Please someone try to explain to me how Sam's a shoot first point guard when he's averaging 6 APG for his career? Earl Watson and Tyronn Lue have 4.5 and 3.3 APG averages for their careers.

He's no different from Deron Williams or Chauncey Billups in the respect that these are players who can create their own shots and score, and Sam's made his career on posting up guards and scoring. That's what he does. For him to also be able to put up the assist numbers he consistently has, proves he's not just a shoot first guy.

Also, with a very short PG as your starter (the 6'1" Rondo), it's better to have someone with some size coming off the bench, rather than another 6' or 6'1" guy like Lue or Watson.

CelticTradition
06-23-2008, 07:36 PM
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/basketball/bal-sp.steele23jun23,0,6833286.column

Now we can all see what he can really do being the back-up to Rondo, starting out from the beginning of training camp and getting to go a full season with the team. And we now know why he didn't play in Game 6. He told Doc to let the rest of the guys enjoy it, and didn't want to go in the game. That's a pretty classy move in my book. Too bad Scal was inactive and couldn't get out there.



good to see i was right about that.....way to go sam

K2OB4E
06-23-2008, 08:35 PM
Please someone try to explain to me how Sam's a shoot first point guard when he's averaging 6 APG for his career? Earl Watson and Tyronn Lue have 4.5 and 3.3 APG averages for their careers.

He's no different from Deron Williams or Chauncey Billups in the respect that these are players who can create their own shots and score, and Sam's made his career on posting up guards and scoring. That's what he does. For him to also be able to put up the assist numbers he consistently has, proves he's not just a shoot first guy.

Also, with a very short PG as your starter (the 6'1" Rondo), it's better to have someone with some size coming off the bench, rather than another 6' or 6'1" guy like Lue or Watson.

Did you not watch the Celtics this year guy, he was def a shoot 1st point guard. How many times did he back a man down and shot a fade away? How many times did he come in and our offense fell apart? Why was House coming in before him?

cmoneytakemoney
06-23-2008, 09:08 PM
I'd like to see the Celtics bring in a guy like Earl Watson or even Tyron Lue as a solid backup PG...a solid backup "true" PG who looks to pass first, shoot 2nd. Im not sure I want Cassell back, not sure what else to say besides im just not sure.

I wouldn't quite call Tyronn Lue a solid pass first shoot second PG. He's a shooter with decent passing and defensive skills but, I'd take Earl Watson or Chris Duhon on my team any day over Tyronn Lue. I just think Watson or Duhon make more sense than Cassell. Watson would probably be looking for a decent contract though but, I bet we could get Duhon for the right price and he'd be a perfect backup for Rondo. He can shoot, play defense, has good ballhandling skills and, he's a good passer.

cmoneytakemoney
06-23-2008, 09:14 PM
Please someone try to explain to me how Sam's a shoot first point guard when he's averaging 6 APG for his career? Earl Watson and Tyronn Lue have 4.5 and 3.3 APG averages for their careers.

He's no different from Deron Williams or Chauncey Billups in the respect that these are players who can create their own shots and score, and Sam's made his career on posting up guards and scoring. That's what he does. For him to also be able to put up the assist numbers he consistently has, proves he's not just a shoot first guy.

Also, with a very short PG as your starter (the 6'1" Rondo), it's better to have someone with some size coming off the bench, rather than another 6' or 6'1" guy like Lue or Watson.

Rondo has good size for a PG. He's more like 6' 2" which is better than average size for a PG. There isn't too many 6' 5" PG's in basketball. I think Watson and Duhon are both pretty decent sized PG's also. Watson is 6' 1" and Duhon is 6' 2" I think. I'd take Duhon or Watson over Cassell any day. They're both great defenders which is something that we need coming off the bench because Cassell's defense hurt us a few times in the playoffs. I love Cassell but, I just don't know how effective he can still be at his age and if you can sign a guy like Duhon for a few years for decent money I think you need to do that in a second and let Cassell walk.

69centers
06-23-2008, 09:41 PM
Did you not watch the Celtics this year guy, he was def a shoot 1st point guard. How many times did he back a man down and shot a fade away? How many times did he come in and our offense fell apart? Why was House coming in before him?

Point guards are suppose to take shots when they have them. That was Rondo's undoing this year in the playoffs. He would overpass. I'll take a guy who CAN pass and find the open guy and who CAN also shoot and score. That's Cassell. Backing down a man and fading away with a shot is called posting up, and Sam's done it well his whole career, and there aren't many (if any) backup PG's in the NBA who can do that. Sam can post up just about any opponent's PG in the NBA.

I wouldn't say our offense fell apart that much when he was in there, as a lot of playoff games this year, the team actually came back from a defecit when he was in there, and even in his limited minutes, a lot of games he came out higher on the +/- side than some of the starters.

I highly doubt that Ainge will try to either trade or pay more money for anyone else, with Sam willing to come back and sign for cheap. If Sam's not retiring, I'm sure he's staying with the C's. I'd say our biggest need at this point is a backup center. With Rondo most likely improving again in his 3rd year, and Sam and Pruitt adequate backups at the point, I doubt Ainge even has to give that position any more thought in the coming year.

I'm really surprised anyone is even suggesting anyone else to backup Rondo, when we've got Cassell. He's a starter willing to play backup, and a starter who is 16PPG and 6APG on his career. These other guys everyone mentions won't ever finish with career stats close to Sam. Sam's one of the few backup PG's in the NBA who can jack up 30 on any given night. Heck, I'll take that off the bench for a full season. It wouldn't make sense to want anyone else or to pay more money for someone with less abilities than Sam.

cmoneytakemoney
06-23-2008, 09:49 PM
Point guards are suppose to take shots when they have them. That was Rondo's undoing this year in the playoffs. He would overpass. I'll take a guy who CAN pass and find the open guy and who CAN also shoot and score. That's Cassell.

I wouldn't say our offense fell apart that much when he was in there, as a lot of playoff games this year, the team actually came back from a defecit when he was in there, and even in his limited minutes, a lot of games he came out higher on the +/- side than some of the starters.

I highly doubt that Ainge will try to either trade or pay more money for anyone else, with Sam willing to come back and sign for cheap. If Sam's not retiring, I'm sure he's staying with the C's. I'd say our biggest need at this point is a backup center. With Rondo most likely improving again in his 3rd year, and Sam and Pruitt adequate backups at the point, I doubt Ainge even has to give that position any more thought in the coming year.

I'm really surprised anyone is even suggesting anyone else to backup Rondo, when we've got Cassell. He's a starter willing to play backup, and a starter who is 16PPG and 6APG on his career. These other guys everyone mentions won't ever finish with career stats close to Sam. Sam's one of the few backup PG's in the NBA who can jack up 30 on any given night. Heck, I'll take that off the bench for a full season. It wouldn't make sense to want anyone else or to pay more money for someone with less abilities than Sam.



You don't think Duhon makes more sense than Cassell at this point in Cassell's career considering Duhon is a much better defender and is available for probably pretty cheap money?

69centers
06-23-2008, 09:56 PM
I'd rather have the vet behind Rondo, than someone who's nearly played the same amount of years. Duhon hasn't proved much of anything to me. He's so-so, but I wouldn't call him a better option over Cassell. Cassell's at that point in his career where he can start to tighten up his defense. He's shown it when he came here, and there's no reason to think he can't hold the fort adequately enough when he's on the floor.

When Rondo's off the floor, most of the time the other team's starting PG is as well, so Cassell, who is used to guarding all starting PG's, shouldn't have too much trouble with backups.

Corey
06-23-2008, 09:56 PM
Dont want him back.

Shaiza
06-23-2008, 10:04 PM
Cassell=Payton
except with more class.

Payton thought he was himself of old towards the end of his career as well. I mean he definitely started passing more, but he still looked for his own shot that was not very ummm intelligent.

kylem4711
06-23-2008, 10:06 PM
people that say sam cassell sucks or sam cassell is too old to be in the nba are purely ignorant and do not know any better.

sam cassell brings a confidence and swagger that can be matched by none other. yeah, sometimes it gets him into trouble bc he will just shoot, but what he brings far outweighs his poor shot selection sometimes. He is also the perfect backup for rondo. rondo knows that cassell will never be the starting pg and does not want to be. this will give rondo the opportunity to learn everything cassell had to teach him instead of only trying to be better then the back up pg.

cassell is a proven winner, heck, he even brough my clipper team within 1 shot of the western conf finals.

i am not bitter bc he left us. i only congratulate him for his recent championship and thank him for bringing some respectability to the clippers.

good luck next year celtics. sporting a celtic flag is a hard thing to do here in la, so keep winning.

cmoneytakemoney
06-23-2008, 10:45 PM
Dont want him back.

Corey don't you think Duhon or Watson are better options than Cassell? Sam is way past his prime. Doc had to take Cassell out a bunch of times in the playoffs because he was getting beat so bad on defense and put Rondo back in before he really rested at all. I have no reason to believe Cassell's defense is going to get better considering he never was a good defender and he's just getting older. Watson probably will want good money but, I think we can get Duhon for cheap. There's no way the Bulls are going to resign him even though he's a restricted free agent because they have Hinrich and everybody knows they're taking Rose with the 1st pick. Duhon is a very great on ball defender and can run the team as good as any backup point guard in basketball when Rondo is on the bench. That's the type of guy we need backing up Rondo. What could Sam teach Rondo? They are two totally different types of point guards. If anything Rondo will start to pick up bad habits from Cassell I think.

Corey
06-23-2008, 11:25 PM
Corey don't you think Duhon or Watson are better options than Cassell? Sam is way past his prime. Doc had to take Cassell out a bunch of times in the playoffs because he was getting beat so bad on defense and put Rondo back in before he really rested at all. I have no reason to believe Cassell's defense is going to get better considering he never was a good defender and he's just getting older. Watson probably will want good money but, I think we can get Duhon for cheap. There's no way the Bulls are going to resign him even though he's a restricted free agent because they have Hinrich and everybody knows they're taking Rose with the 1st pick. Duhon is a very great on ball defender and can run the team as good as any backup point guard in basketball when Rondo is on the bench. That's the type of guy we need backing up Rondo. What could Sam teach Rondo? They are two totally different types of point guards. If anything Rondo will start to pick up bad habits from Cassell I think.

I basically agree with everything you said. I've been saying all along that I'd like Duhon as our backup.

69centers
06-24-2008, 12:14 AM
people that say sam cassell sucks or sam cassell is too old to be in the nba are purely ignorant and do not know any better.

sam cassell brings a confidence and swagger that can be matched by none other. yeah, sometimes it gets him into trouble bc he will just shoot, but what he brings far outweighs his poor shot selection sometimes. He is also the perfect backup for rondo. rondo knows that cassell will never be the starting pg and does not want to be. this will give rondo the opportunity to learn everything cassell had to teach him instead of only trying to be better then the back up pg.

cassell is a proven winner, heck, he even brough my clipper team within 1 shot of the western conf finals.

i am not bitter bc he left us. i only congratulate him for his recent championship and thank him for bringing some respectability to the clippers.

good luck next year celtics. sporting a celtic flag is a hard thing to do here in la, so keep winning.

Finally a different perspective for the Sam haters to think about in here! Thanks!

I've gone on and on about how good Sam really is, but no one here likes to believe that or wants to hear it. All they focus on is how he played two minutes in one game, got the ball stolen from him by Rodney Stuckey, and took a seat on the bench. A lot of young fans in here are only basically judging sam on his 17 games with the C's this year, and limited playoff minutes and that's really sad.

The guy averaged just under 5 assists per game and 13 PPG as a starter for the Clippers this year, at 38 years old. There simply isn't a better backup in the league who can put up those numbers. Even throwing out other names is senseless. Do you think Chris Duhon, in his few years in the league, is not thinking about a starting point guard position and just wants to come to a new team and basically say, "I'd like to be a backup the rest of my career."

Sam's stay in Boston wasn't a good judge of his skills as he came in way too late, and Doc utilized his minutes at the end of the regular season very poorly. Neither was his 2 minutes playoff games, or 6 minute playoff games. You take 2-6 minutes out of any star's game and it could look like a complete bust or awful game for that particular time frame. Let's talk about one of the stars of the C's championship run, James Posey, who went stretches at times in the playoffs where he couldn't guard anyone. In fact, I distinctly remember a game where he was horrible for an entire half, and only reprieved himself by hitting a few threes late in the game. Everyone has bad moments. You don't put an entire player in a nutshell by those bad minutes. I don't see anyone calling for Posey to leave, in fact everyone wants to keep him. Well, why are you only judging Sam on his bad minutes and not Posey??

Sam can certainly still play and is the C's best backup option at point for next season. Whether or not the young, and as you say, kylem, "purely ignorant" Celtic fans ever get it is another story.

69centers
06-24-2008, 12:16 AM
Corey don't you think Duhon or Watson are better options than Cassell? Sam is way past his prime. Doc had to take Cassell out a bunch of times in the playoffs because he was getting beat so bad on defense and put Rondo back in before he really rested at all. I have no reason to believe Cassell's defense is going to get better considering he never was a good defender and he's just getting older. Watson probably will want good money but, I think we can get Duhon for cheap. There's no way the Bulls are going to resign him even though he's a restricted free agent because they have Hinrich and everybody knows they're taking Rose with the 1st pick. Duhon is a very great on ball defender and can run the team as good as any backup point guard in basketball when Rondo is on the bench. That's the type of guy we need backing up Rondo. What could Sam teach Rondo? They are two totally different types of point guards. If anything Rondo will start to pick up bad habits from Cassell I think.

:pity: :pity: :pity:

Corey
06-24-2008, 12:21 AM
If you actually watched the games, you'd understand why he doesn't belong on this team. You should stop making excuses for him, because he really isn't someone who thrives on this team.

69centers
06-24-2008, 12:28 AM
If you actually watched the games, you'd understand why he doesn't belong on this team. You should stop making excuses for him, because he really isn't someone who thrives on this team.

We should really give him a chance, to start the year off properly and let him get his minutes and be fully comfortable with the team. If he starts stinking it up after 20 games, I'll be the first to step up and call for his head. However, I think if he gets the chance, I doubt that will happen and he won't disappoint us next year.

Corey
06-24-2008, 12:31 AM
Get the chance? He's 38, he shouldn't need an offseason to get acclimated to a team.

What do you really expect him to do differently after a training camp, anyways? He had a terrible shot selection, he was slow getting up and down the court, he didn't set other players up well, he played absolutely no defense, and he always looked for his shot first.

What of those things do you really expect to change?

69centers
06-24-2008, 12:38 AM
Get the chance? He's 38, he shouldn't need an offseason to get acclimated to a team.

What do you really expect him to do differently after a training camp, anyways? He had a terrible shot selection, he was slow getting up and down the court, he didn't set other players up well, he played absolutely no defense, and he always looked for his shot first.

What of those things do you really expect to change?

In a sense, he played for one team at the end of the regular season, and then two different teams in the playoffs. So in his limited time here, he saw 3 different looks out on the floor.

In the regular season he was out there on the floor with guys like Tony Allen, Eddie House, Leon Powe and Big Baby. In the playoffs, he started to be out there at the end of games with the Big 3, but then later on, usually found himself on the floor with most of the bench and maybe one of the big 3. The guy's essentially never got a chance to play with the outright "team" for any good stretch.

He did play defense and had some key steals in some of the games. All the other flaws you mentioned were not consistently done. He did them here and there, but so doesn't every player at times.

kvrnm
06-24-2008, 12:46 AM
I basically agree with everything you said. I've been saying all along that I'd like Duhon as our backup.

agreed, duhon would be nice

Corey
06-24-2008, 01:00 AM
All the other flaws you mentioned were not consistently done. He did them here and there, but so doesn't every player at times.

Not 38 (going to be 39) year old veterans that are supposed to know the game inside and out. Those are rookie mistakes.

69centers
06-24-2008, 01:07 AM
Not 38 (going to be 39) year old veterans that are supposed to know the game inside and out. Those are rookie mistakes.

And how about Paul Pierce? MVP of the Finals and the 30+ year-old, with 10 years in the league still made a rookie/bonehead turnover in the 4th quarter of EVERY single playoff game this year. You can keep pointing out these reasons why you hate Sam, but I'll keep pointing out comparisons that you're not saying about other Celtics who have done the exact same things you're ragging on Sam about. It just proves you're completely biased and have it in your head that he sucks. Nothing's gonna change that.

Corey
06-24-2008, 01:13 AM
And how about Paul Pierce? MVP of the Finals and the 30+ year-old, with 10 years in the league still made a rookie/bonehead turnover in the 4th quarter of EVERY single playoff game this year. You can keep pointing out these reasons why you hate Sam, but I'll keep pointing out comparisons that you're not saying about other Celtics who have done the exact same things you're ragging on Sam about. It just proves you're completely biased and have it in your head that he sucks. Nothing's gonna change that.

You're comparing Pierce and Cassell?

I'm officially discarding every opinion you have on the subject from here on out, because that's ridiculous.

Get over your man crush on Cassell, he's not a good player anymore.

K2OB4E
06-24-2008, 01:16 AM
Atleast I am not the only one who thinks Cassell shouldnt come back, and there are better options out there,

69centers
06-24-2008, 01:20 AM
Yes, I said Cassell is better than Pierce. Yup, exactly my words.

Maybe if you were paying attention (it's getting late here) you'd know I was comparing your "veteran's should know better and not make rookie mistakes" schtick. If you are going to throw out that Sam's doing stuff veteran's shouldn't do, I threw out that Pierce makes idiotic, rookie turnovers late in almost every game I've seen the guy play in. That doesn't make him a bad player. He's still one of the greatest Celtics and future Hall of Famer.

My point was, that you clearly missed, is that you can't judge someone on their mistakes, but rather on what they can do as a player. You're just never going to get over the fact that Sam can play. 15 different posters could come to this thread and tell you, but you still wouldn't buy it, because you're biased and formed an opinion about the guy in your head that's not going to change.

I don't have a man crush on Sam. I know who he is, know he's a good player, and have been trying to tell that to the non-believers like you. Start knocking other good players on the team, and I'll stick up for them, too.

Faneik
06-24-2008, 06:51 AM
No more Cassell please...He just isn't good anymore...

One veteran PG I'd like to see backing up Rondo is Lindsey Hunter (UFA)...

He's a defensive specialist, and that is what our team is all about...

C-Webb
06-24-2008, 08:55 AM
I don't have a man crush on Sam. I know who he is, know he's a good player, and have been trying to tell that to the non-believers like you. Start knocking other good players on the team, and I'll stick up for them, too.

WOW - 69Centers, in my local circles I have always been the one to justify my Celtic players/ plays to no end (you should have heard my Toine arguments back in the day), but your ability to back Sam Cassell is amazing.

I'll knock PP late in games. He tries the same ball handling moves late in games that he does when the defense isn't all over him. Gets him into trouble all the time. No question I get a little worried when I see him on the perimeter when a double team is coming. That isn't the same argument though. We aren't arguing that Sam just makes mistakes, we are arguing that sam makes mistakes while not playing the PG role at all. The offense runs through PP at the end of games and he is put in those situations. Given he gets that role every close game, I would say he creates more positive plays than turnovers. Sam on the other hand, has been averaging many more negative plays than anything positive.


First off the guy has only been over 6 assists 7 times in his 15 year career. Of those, he has only been over 7 three times. He averaged 7.3 in 2003, and since then has only topped 6 once. He is not an assist machine. On the other hand, he is a career 45% shooter, and only a career 33% three point shooter.

Since we like averages, he played 17 minutes a game this year in Boston, and shot 38% and averaged 2 assists in that time. As he gets another year older why do you think that is going to change or improve. Thats the time a backup player gets. We seem to all admit Cassell doesn't get himself going with that much playing time. That won't change at age 39. The backup PG's role is also to play with many different lineups. Given that Cassell is suppose to be the proven vet, we should not be giving him any excuses for erratic play because he was out with different players. This the NBA, not the playground. A PG should be able to recognize when he is with players where he needs to score, or players where he needs to create offense and pass. I can't even believe that is being argued in Cassell's favor. That is what a PG does.

He is not the right fit in Boston. Another year is not going to change that. If anything he may play less minutes if House is resigned and they both share backup roles. Duhon seems like a better fit to me, because he is a better ballhandler and defender, has always played the backup role, so is not affected coming into the game that way. I am not sold on Duhon's shooting ability, but at least Duhon does not attempt many shots as he looks for offense first.

Jeremy5150
06-24-2008, 10:56 AM
There are certain guys (like Robert Horry) you ALWAYS want on your team, no matter how old they are . Posey will be that kind of player. Fisher, Casell...even if they get up in age...they help you win, either on the court or off. If Horry WANTS to play for your team, you're probably a contendah...HA.

cmoneytakemoney
06-24-2008, 06:14 PM
And how about Paul Pierce? MVP of the Finals and the 30+ year-old, with 10 years in the league still made a rookie/bonehead turnover in the 4th quarter of EVERY single playoff game this year. You can keep pointing out these reasons why you hate Sam, but I'll keep pointing out comparisons that you're not saying about other Celtics who have done the exact same things you're ragging on Sam about. It just proves you're completely biased and have it in your head that he sucks. Nothing's gonna change that.

Yeah but the great things Paul Pierce does outweighs the very few mistakes he makes by a ton. That's not the case with Sam Cassell.

69centers
06-24-2008, 08:10 PM
There are certain guys (like Robert Horry) you ALWAYS want on your team, no matter how old they are . Posey will be that kind of player. Fisher, Casell...even if they get up in age...they help you win, either on the court or off. If Horry WANTS to play for your team, you're probably a contendah...HA.

Thank you. There are other things to the guy than just stats, which of course go down with age. There are always the intangibles. That's 3 of us now in this one thread, who are on Sam's side. It's too bad I'm the only Celtic fan here who knows that. It's a pity that others here can't recognize a good player.

It's basically only the few Celtic fans in this forum who turned on Sam, because of a few bad minutes in some games. Anytime his name comes up in regular NBA forums, no one puts him down like the guys in here are doing. In fact, most people have comments just like the other two in this thread who are backing me up.

Who's backing up Deron Williams at point? Who's backing up Baron Davis? Who's backing up all the premiere point guards in the league? You have none of them with a name or ability of Cassell. It's not often you get a starter who can still start, to come to your team and accept a backup PG role. I can't believe anyone's not in favor of that. There isn't anyone out there who can help us more than Sam at that position, not Duhon, not Hunter, not Watson. Sorry, but anyone else is a downgrade.

Corey
06-24-2008, 08:14 PM
It's basically only the few Celtic fans in this forum who turned on Sam, because of a few bad minutes in some games. Anytime his name comes up in regular NBA forums, no one puts him down like the guys in here are doing. In fact, most people have comments just like the other two in this thread who are backing me up.

What NBA forum are YOU looking at? Just about everyone in the NBA forum thinks he should be calling it quits.

And, I'm pretty sure the Celtics fans that get to watch EVERY game have a bit stronger of an opinion than people who only got to watch them during the playoffs, and read box scores.

69centers
06-25-2008, 12:15 AM
What NBA forum are YOU looking at? Just about everyone in the NBA forum thinks he should be calling it quits.

And, I'm pretty sure the Celtics fans that get to watch EVERY game have a bit stronger of an opinion than people who only got to watch them during the playoffs, and read box scores.

All the other forums I've went and posted anything about Sam in, whether it was the general NBA, or an opponent we were playing in the playoffs, the majority of people were in favor of Cassell and what he can bring to our team. In fact, it only seems to be Celtic fans such as yourself, who haven't seen much of Cassell that are so negative with him. What minutes he's had this year with the Celts is not a true judge of Sam as a player. Judging by what I've seen him do as a player his whole career, and most recently with the Clips, he hasn't been himself this year with the C's. He's definitely been off. I don't think it's his age, or that he's lost it, I feel it's the other reasons I've already mentioned many times here.

Also, if anyone on the West Coast watched even one Clippers game earlier this year, and saw Sam start and play 30+ minutes in a game, that's more than you've ever seen of Sam this year. One 35 minute game where he started is a better judge of who Sam is than the 2 minutes and then 6 minutes playing time he got, in every 4th game the Celtics played.

KiLLaHDiCe12
06-25-2008, 12:21 AM
if he can still play i think as a backup point guard Eric Snow would be perfect for you guys. he is only gonna play one last year if he does play (possible knee problems, void this whole post by me if his knee is in too bad of shape to go another season) and then coach. he's a great team guy and is all about helping young players develop. also he is a hell of a defender still not like in his prime but still way better than average but not elite. faster pg's like parker give him some trouble a little. but he passes first and has no ego. i would love to see you guys get him. perfect for rondo.

K2OB4E
06-25-2008, 12:48 AM
All the other forums I've went and posted anything about Sam in, whether it was the general NBA, or an opponent we were playing in the playoffs, the majority of people were in favor of Cassell and what he can bring to our team. In fact, it only seems to be Celtic fans such as yourself, who haven't seen much of Cassell that are so negative with him. What minutes he's had this year with the Celts is not a true judge of Sam as a player. Judging by what I've seen him do as a player his whole career, and most recently with the Clips, he hasn't been himself this year with the C's. He's definitely been off. I don't think it's his age, or that he's lost it, I feel it's the other reasons I've already mentioned many times here.

Also, if anyone on the West Coast watched even one Clippers game earlier this year, and saw Sam start and play 30+ minutes in a game, that's more than you've ever seen of Sam this year. One 35 minute game where he started is a better judge of who Sam is than the 2 minutes and then 6 minutes playing time he got, in every 4th game the Celtics played.

Seriously did you watch the Celtics after we picked up Cassell? He came down and looked for his shot, thats all he did. Why do you think his playing time went down? He was given chances when he first came here, and it just wasn't working. I like Sam, he just doesn't fit in with the Celtics. The celtics offense runs so much more smoothly when Rondo is in.

In all honesty I remember game threads, when we were glad that House was the first guard off the bench. We were glad when Cassell stayed on the bench. I just don't understand how you can defend him. Much better options out there.

Corey
06-25-2008, 01:20 AM
Also, if anyone on the West Coast watched even one Clippers game earlier this year, and saw Sam start and play 30+ minutes in a game, that's more than you've ever seen of Sam this year. One 35 minute game where he started is a better judge of who Sam is than the 2 minutes and then 6 minutes playing time he got, in every 4th game the Celtics played.

That point is completely invalid. Wanna know why?

..BECAUSE SAM ISN'T PLAYING 35 MINUTES PER GAME HERE.

He's getting small minutes, or no minutes. It doesn't matter how he played for the Clippers. They were a terrible team, and had no offense.

Jeremy5150
06-25-2008, 01:48 AM
Thank you. There are other things to the guy than just stats, which of course go down with age. There are always the intangibles. That's 3 of us now in this one thread, who are on Sam's side. It's too bad I'm the only Celtic fan here who knows that. It's a pity that others here can't recognize a good player.

It's basically only the few Celtic fans in this forum who turned on Sam, because of a few bad minutes in some games. Anytime his name comes up in regular NBA forums, no one puts him down like the guys in here are doing. In fact, most people have comments just like the other two in this thread who are backing me up.

Who's backing up Deron Williams at point? Who's backing up Baron Davis? Who's backing up all the premiere point guards in the league? You have none of them with a name or ability of Cassell. It's not often you get a starter who can still start, to come to your team and accept a backup PG role. I can't believe anyone's not in favor of that. There isn't anyone out there who can help us more than Sam at that position, not Duhon, not Hunter, not Watson. Sorry, but anyone else is a downgrade.

Also, when you get a Sam Cassell, you are not only getting a solid, intelligent backup, you are also getting an assistant coach. Sam makes Rondo better. Rondo GOT better since Sam has been on the Celtics. He can do wonders for Rondo, Pruitt and some of the off-guards too.

Not only that, but being a starting point guard, and then going to backup...it will mess with his rhythm a bit - like a starting pitcher becoming a closer. He doesn't have time to gel with the offense. I have no doubt that Doc TOLD Sam to take shots for a few minutes - just to mess with the opponent's defense a bit. He made some, he missed some, but I have no doubt he followed Doc's instruction.

Corey
06-25-2008, 02:09 AM
Also, when you get a Sam Cassell, you are not only getting a solid, intelligent backup, you are also getting an assistant coach. Sam makes Rondo better. Rondo GOT better since Sam has been on the Celtics. He can do wonders for Rondo, Pruitt and some of the off-guards too.
Sam might want to be a coach one day...But how good of an "assistant coach" can he be, when he doesn't even know his own role when he's on the floor?


I have no doubt that Doc TOLD Sam to take shots for a few minutes - just to mess with the opponent's defense a bit. He made some, he missed some, but I have no doubt he followed Doc's instruction.
Wrong-O (Partially). Doc also fully admitted that Sam was looking for his shot too much, rather than looking to set up other players.

Yea, Sam was supposed to look for his shot, and be a spark off the bench...But he's first and foremost a backup point guard. Not a shooting guard. He has to set other people up to be given a role in the rotation, and he simply wasn't doing that.

69centers
06-25-2008, 10:44 AM
Sam might want to be a coach one day...But how good of an "assistant coach" can he be, when he doesn't even know his own role when he's on the floor?


Wrong-O (Partially). Doc also fully admitted that Sam was looking for his shot too much, rather than looking to set up other players.

Yea, Sam was supposed to look for his shot, and be a spark off the bench...But he's first and foremost a backup point guard. Not a shooting guard. He has to set other people up to be given a role in the rotation, and he simply wasn't doing that.

I definitely agree that in certain situations, Doc was telling Sam to shoot. There were a few games where our offense was horrible in the first quarter, and when Sam came out, he had to try to get something going. That's what scoring point guards do.

And, just like Jeremy said, and like I keep saying, Sam going to backup puts him on the floor with a much less talented group of guys than he was use to all year in LA. Granted, the Clipper starters weren't a menacing bunch, but he came here and was suddenly playing out the rest of the season with 2nd and 3rd options off the bench.

Corey
06-25-2008, 01:38 PM
And, just like Jeremy said, and like I keep saying, Sam going to backup puts him on the floor with a much less talented group of guys than he was use to all year in LA. Granted, the Clipper starters weren't a menacing bunch, but he came here and was suddenly playing out the rest of the season with 2nd and 3rd options off the bench.

And he's going to be doing the same thing next season if he's back. Maybe even with a LESS talented group if Posey and PJ leave. Why do you expect the outcome to be any different?

69centers
06-25-2008, 02:05 PM
And he's going to be doing the same thing next season if he's back. Maybe even with a LESS talented group if Posey and PJ leave. Why do you expect the outcome to be any different?

Because he'll consistently get an even amount of minutes game to game, and be on the floor with similar guys for consecutive games. Sam will be fine starting off the regular season in a regular rotation. If you don't believe me, we'll just have to wait 20 games into the season and see how he's doing. If he stinks it up, he can retire midway through the year, move to Doc's bench coach, and free up a roster spot!

Martin14
06-25-2008, 03:35 PM
Big 3 aside...Sam Cassell is the best player out there for the C's. His pass first mentality, tenacious defense and excellent shooting ability when given the chance makes him what he is. I don't think the guy could miss a shot if you punched him in the face during his release when he's wide open. He's still quick, has great ball handling, makes great decisions, and he has size. Rondo should play backup to Sam until he is done. The young one can really learn alot from him. IMO, Sam Cassell could be a valuable PG to any team for the next 2-3 years. On top of all that, he's handsome as can be and not weird looking at all.

OK - That last line probably gave this away. I was totally kidding about all that. HA. Just wanted to get the 3 (are we at 2 or 3 now?) Sam lovers going for a minute.

Seriously though. I am not a complete hater. The guy was solid in his prime, but now he is nothing more than a poor/mediocre releiver, locker room presence, and provider of some veteran uplifting. He is kind of a bum, honestly. But what can you expect from a 38 (456 in Alien years) year old? I dont know about these Sam fans. What did he do for the Celtics (ON THE COURT) that Eddie money didn't do twice as well? I, like many others would hold my breath whenever #28 entered the game. I wouldn't let it go until Doc took him off the floor. Nothing against the guy personally. He just is not a good player anymore and the backup PG slot that he is hogging should be filled with a more valuable, perhaps younger passing defender.

Jeremy5150
06-25-2008, 07:53 PM
And he's going to be doing the same thing next season if he's back. Maybe even with a LESS talented group if Posey and PJ leave. Why do you expect the outcome to be any different?

He will be more used to where the players like to get the ball and will be more experienced with their timing, reaction time, and other subtleties. I am not a Sam FAN...I just think he has some real qualities to give. He is a winner, smart, and has a teacher's mentality. What more do you want?

69centers
06-25-2008, 08:47 PM
He will be more used to where the players like to get the ball and will be more experienced with their timing, reaction time, and other subtleties. I am not a Sam FAN...I just think he has some real qualities to give. He is a winner, smart, and has a teacher's mentality. What more do you want?

Well put.

Hey, I saw Celtic t-shirts with Sam's name and number on them at Champs sports, if Corey or anyone else are interested. Get 'em before they sell out! :p

Rhyming Rebel
06-26-2008, 08:44 AM
Why does he want to play another year he'll be 78 yrs old

Jeremy5150
06-26-2008, 11:52 AM
Why does he want to play another year he'll be 78 yrs old

Aliens live well past humans

C-Webb
06-26-2008, 01:17 PM
He will be more used to where the players like to get the ball and will be more experienced with their timing, reaction time, and other subtleties. I am not a Sam FAN...I just think he has some real qualities to give. He is a winner, smart, and has a teacher's mentality. What more do you want?

This thread is still going?? It would be nice if Sam knew where players like to get the ball and passed it to them, but THIS JUST IN - Sam is a shoot first PG. How can we still be arguing that suddenly next year he will embrace his role and really excel in 15 minutes a game (hopefully less if House is back).

Why are we mentioning what he did with the clips?? Ya I did watch some Clipper games early in the year, and in LA he played the same way, as a shoot first PG - he has always been a shoot first PG - Even when he averaged 9 assists a game a millenium ago with the Wolves he was still a shoot first PG. Early this year he played 26 minutes a game, averaged 4.5 assists, shot 45% from the field including 25% from the arc. The year before he played 25 minutes a game and shot an abysmal 42% from the field and 29% from behind the arc and again 4.5 assists. These numbers aren't trending in a great direction as he has gotten older, even with decent playing minutes. GIVEN the C's are nothing like the Clips though, nor is the PG role the same at all, it is basically irrelevant other than showing when given a increased scoring repsonsibility, he didn't do much with it. He is not going to get 24 minutes a game in Boston and he plays worse with less playing time.

And who said that rondo was a better player once Sam arrived. Name me one thing that Rondo did different that was improved once Sam arrived that would be the result of Sam I Am????

None of these "For Sam" arguments have any basis, they are just speculation based on who Sam was as a player 5 years ago.

69centers
06-26-2008, 02:14 PM
... And who said that rondo was a better player once Sam arrived. Name me one thing that Rondo did different that was improved once Sam arrived that would be the result of Sam I Am??? ...

The flipside to that is that is something you can't disprove happened. You can't say for sure that Sam didn't help Rondo. I did notice a drop in the really bad forcing issues Rondo had in the regular season. He wouldn't run full steam down the court anymore and make a dumb turnover. I also didn't see him getting swatted from behind on open layups. In fact, that's what Sam excels at and there was one play I distinctly remember this playoffs where Sam had a breakaway and he was able to stop, make a move, and finish at the basket with a defender on him. There's a good argument that Rondo not doing anything like that anymore in the playoffs was a result of Sam's coaching.

bagwell368
06-26-2008, 11:08 PM
his first shot off the bench is usually OK, the more he shoots the worse he gets. Not interested in seeing him back.

Global Celtic
06-27-2008, 03:42 PM
Come on...
Aren't you satisfied with how this season went on?

Bring Sam, PJ, Eddie and Posey back, if possible.
Doc said yesterday he would be pleased if he mantained the exact same team.

C-Webb
06-27-2008, 03:51 PM
The flipside to that is that is something you can't disprove happened. You can't say for sure that Sam didn't help Rondo. I did notice a drop in the really bad forcing issues Rondo had in the regular season. He wouldn't run full steam down the court anymore and make a dumb turnover. I also didn't see him getting swatted from behind on open layups. In fact, that's what Sam excels at and there was one play I distinctly remember this playoffs where Sam had a breakaway and he was able to stop, make a move, and finish at the basket with a defender on him. There's a good argument that Rondo not doing anything like that anymore in the playoffs was a result of Sam's coaching.

R U seriously saying that Rondo learned to not get blocked from behind as much on open layups from Sam? Not getting blocked from behind, or forcing less passes (both of these I honestly didn't notice any difference in by the way, but for arguments sake), for a young player comes from experience.

Maybe your right and forcing less passes came from Sam because he probably said "Rondo, Rondo.. Hey.... why you passing so much when you can shoot first..."

69centers
06-27-2008, 08:05 PM
R U seriously saying that Rondo learned to not get blocked from behind as much on open layups from Sam? Not getting blocked from behind, or forcing less passes (both of these I honestly didn't notice any difference in by the way, but for arguments sake), for a young player comes from experience.

Maybe your right and forcing less passes came from Sam because he probably said "Rondo, Rondo.. Hey.... why you passing so much when you can shoot first..."

If I were, you couldn't disprove it, just as if you said he didn't, I couldn't disprove that. It's all a moot argument. Even though this thread is back and forth, media consensus is not with you, as writers, TV and ESPN guys, were all pointing to Sam contributing to this title, and not one of them have been picking on him since we won.

Corey
06-27-2008, 08:12 PM
If I were, you couldn't disprove it, just as if you said he didn't, I couldn't disprove that. It's all a moot argument. Even though this thread is back and forth, media consensus is not with you, as writers, TV and ESPN guys, were all pointing to Sam contributing to this title, and not one of them have been picking on him since we won.

Hmm, I wonder why he isn't being talked about.

..Maybe because we just won a championship? There's no need for "experts" to talk about his contributions (or lack there of) right now.

69centers
06-27-2008, 08:47 PM
You guys may get your wish of seeing him go. Supposedly he is interested in Denver and his buddy George Karl, who tried to woo him before he signed with us. I am assuming he will try to sign with us first, and if not, Denver's his next choice. He already said he wants to come back and win a 4th ring, and I don't see how he would think he's got a better chance at doing that in Denver. Therefore, I believe he is looking at his next option should he not reach a deal with us.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jun/26/carter-najera-hope-to-remain-with-nuggets/

rufo4100
06-27-2008, 09:37 PM
I think Denver would be a good fit for Cassell. It does appear that he will play again next year and it doesnt look like Boston.

Sports Illustrator
06-28-2008, 01:28 AM
Free-agent point guard Sam Cassell, 38, has told the Rocky Mountain News he's interested in playing one more season and will consider the Nuggets. And there are rumblings that, with Chicago having drafted point guard Derrick Rose with the top pick, Bulls point guard Kirk Hinrich could be on the move, with Denver a possible landing spot.

From Rocky Mountain News (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jun/26/carter-najera-hope-to-remain-with-nuggets/)

69centers
06-28-2008, 09:37 AM
A quote today on bostonherald.com:

"“Sam just didn’t have long enough (to learn the system), but we want him back, too,” Rivers added."

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/2008_06_27_Ainge_again_busy_late/srvc=celt&position=2

I guess I'm not the only one saying he didn't get the time to adjust, as it's coming from his own head coach, who would probably know a tad more about that than anyone else.

ny sucks
06-28-2008, 10:35 AM
Dont want him back.

Same, every time he was in, i was worried about either losing the lead, or us getting blown away. He's just not that good anymore, when he's on he is a good player, but he just can't shoot anymore.

69centers
06-28-2008, 10:42 AM
Sam had more APG and PPG in the playoffs than House, but no one is calling for House to leave? Strange.

Corey
06-28-2008, 10:43 AM
Sam had more APG and PPG in the playoffs than House, but no one is calling for House to leave? Strange.

House isn't a point guard...and he actually excels at something, unlike Cassell.

kylem4711
06-29-2008, 04:25 AM
He will be more used to where the players like to get the ball and will be more experienced with their timing, reaction time, and other subtleties. I am not a Sam FAN...I just think he has some real qualities to give. He is a winner, smart, and has a teacher's mentality. What more do you want?

very well said

kylem4711
06-29-2008, 04:27 AM
House isn't a point guard...and he actually excels at something, unlike Cassell.

what does he excel in? being a streaky nomad of a player?

kylem4711
06-29-2008, 04:29 AM
Sam had more APG and PPG in the playoffs than House, but no one is calling for House to leave? Strange.

got everyone there....

i have to say i agree with everything you say.

sam is a proven winner. PROVEN

yes he is older. so what? he is not trying to be the starter. he is a good solid 15 minutes a game guy.

rufo4100
06-29-2008, 11:05 AM
I have given a lot of thought to the Sam Cassell question the past week and I have come to this conclussion: If he will come here for vet minimum and we cant sign or trade for anybody better than Cassell than I want him back. He did not do well in the playoffs but he played very good in LA before coming here and I think with a full season under his belt in Boston he would do better.

He was also used to being a starter his entire career so getting spot minutes was an adjustment for him. If he had a full season to get used to playing 10 minutes a half I think he'd be better. He also brings a sometimes explosive offense with him and a great attitude and his teamates seem to love him.

Having said all this if we can land a better backup point guard via a trade or free agency that I say do it but if not that I think having Cassell back would be ok.

Corey
06-29-2008, 01:11 PM
but he played very good in LA before coming here and I think with a full season under his belt in Boston he would do better.

Obviously. He was a starting point guard here. He was also the main focal point of his offense when Maggette and Brand were down. Who else was going to score besides him and like, Al Thornton? He had no choice.

Cassell is only good as a starter. He's not going to be a starter here, and his minutes aren't going to be consistent. A training camp isn't going to change that. He might learn the offense better, and understand what he should be doing, but he's always going to be a shoot-first point guard that won't excel in our system.

rufo4100
06-29-2008, 02:20 PM
Obviously. He was a starting point guard here. He was also the main focal point of his offense when Maggette and Brand were down. Who else was going to score besides him and like, Al Thornton? He had no choice.

Cassell is only good as a starter. He's not going to be a starter here, and his minutes aren't going to be consistent. A training camp isn't going to change that. He might learn the offense better, and understand what he should be doing, but he's always going to be a shoot-first point guard that won't excel in our system.


I disagree. We only had a limited chance to see him come off the bench. I think with a more clearly defined spot in the rotation next year Cassell would do better. Training camp would definetly help with this as would an entire season. It cant be easy coming in towards the end of the season and trying to find a spot in the rotation and then having to sit out games and then play and then sit out again. I would like to see the Celts try and make a trade for a better backup PG or try and sign a backup PG that might better fit but as I said earlier if that doesnt happen having him back for an entire season might work to both Cassell's benefit and ours.

Ragun
06-29-2008, 03:36 PM
didnt he say he would like to play for the Nuggets?

69centers
06-30-2008, 12:43 AM
Just as I pointed out earlier in the thread, Doc even stated that Sam didn't have enough time to learn the Celtics' system. If anyone should know best about who is going to fit in where, it's the coach. If Doc says he wants him back, he knows best.

More and more people in this thread are in favor of his returning and knowing what he can bring to this team. It looks like you're in the minority now, Corey.

69centers
06-30-2008, 12:45 AM
didnt he say he would like to play for the Nuggets?

He also said that before leaving the Clippers. The Celtics and Nuggets seem to be the only two teams he wants to play for. I think Boston is still his first choice, and if that doesn't work out, he'll play for Karl in Denver. The above article said he would "consider" the Nuggets.

69centers
07-02-2008, 11:22 AM
"Cassell has said he hopes to play one more season with Boston before becoming an assistant coach with the Celtics in 2009-10."

From: http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/07/02/celtics_extend_offer_to_maggette/?page=2

Corey
07-02-2008, 11:31 AM
Of course he hopes he can come back, we just won a championship.

69centers
07-02-2008, 11:35 AM
I think he likes Doc and the coaching staff a lot, and really wants a place here on the bench after he retires.