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View Full Version : Allen Iverson sticks with the Nuggets.



Crunchy12489
06-20-2008, 08:40 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_9649955

Check it out.

Looks like all of you Allen Iverson haters have to put up with him for one more year. DAMN!

DJiC
06-20-2008, 08:49 PM
im not a ai hater i just dont think hes right for our team

Crunchy12489
06-20-2008, 08:50 PM
im not a ai hater i just dont think hes right for our team

Then that statement wasn't thrown at you.

SUNDUNDIDIT
06-20-2008, 09:11 PM
Thats great...Now we just need a good PG, or try getting J.R. to really fill the position out himself...I have a strong feeling, J.R. is going to flourish....I know lots of this site might disagree with tryin to convert him onto the starting floor, but I actually think J.R. has more then the potential to uphold the position and really take flight with this team, THIS YEAR!!!


We need to get rid of Camby...He just stands around...He doesn't know how to work the paint....I can't recall a time, when I actually seen Camby postup with his back against a defender and maker a move....I really can't...We need that type of center....Or maybe we do need an authentic PG, and not try takin chances with J.R. at starter??? Or just go with Anthony Carter again????:confused:

avsman05
06-20-2008, 09:14 PM
Allen Iverson is one of the best players in the league and im glad hes staying with us i just wish it was for less money. so we will have 1 more year of 1 and done. But after that watch out we will have some money to go get some good role players and more defensive minded players.

Crunchy12489
06-20-2008, 09:15 PM
Get rid of Camby? No. I agree he can't score a bucket to save his life, but he's doing all the dirty work this team refuses to do. If you ask me, I think he and Steven Hunter should switch out.

Really, Camby can score dude. It's just someone has to set him up. Tyson Chandler is walking in Marcus Camby's footsteps. Tyson Chandler can't create himself a shot, nor can Camby. The PG is the one who should make his team better and distribute the ball to Camby when he's wide open or he has a better position on his man. We have no point guard, that's why you see Camby blowing layups and bricking shots. No one is setting him up correctly. He also needs to come in strong.

Camby can dunk, I don't care what any of you say. I saw what he did to Doug Christie and boy, did he shock me. Camby can throw down monster jams but he refuses to for this team. Why? I have no idea.

Why does Karl keep a 7 footer benched all game? You just don't do that. HES 7 FEET TALL.

K-Mart comes in too soft and/or shoots that sissy shot of his that never seems to land.

Our post game is indeed terrible. We have no players with that back-to-basket ability. I mean, we do have Nene, but when do you see him playing? He spends most of his life in the hospital or on the sideline because of injuries.

Crunchy12489
06-20-2008, 09:24 PM
I have a strong feeling, J.R. is going to flourish....I know lots of this site might disagree with tryin to convert him onto the starting floor

I agree with all of this.

I'm for starting JR Smith.

Kleiza would be one hell of a sixth man.

SUNDUNDIDIT
06-20-2008, 09:27 PM
Get rid of Camby? No. I agree he can't score a bucket to save his life, but he's doing all the dirty work this team refuses to do. If you ask me, I think he and Steven Hunter should switch out.

Really, Camby can score dude. It's just someone has to set him up. Tyson Chandler is walking in Marcus Camby's footsteps. Tyson Chandler can't create himself a shot, nor can Camby. The PG is the one who should make his team better and distribute the ball to Camby when he's wide open or he has a better position on his man. We have no point guard, that's why you see Camby blowing layups and bricking shots. No one is setting him up correctly.

Why does Karl bench a 7 footer? You just don't do that. HES 7 FEET TALL.

K-Mart comes in too soft and/or shoots that sissy shot of his that never seems to land.

Our post game is indeed terrible. We have no players with that back-to-basket ability. I mean, we do have Nene, but when do you see him playing? He spends most of his life in the hospital or on the sideline because of injuries.


Camby only good at blocks tho...That necessarily don't result, as a complete dynamic to being a great defender, even tho he gets acclaim as great defender for doing so!! Not to mention, he makes all defensive teams, primarily because of his blocks....


Championship teams don't have centers that just settle for jump shots and halfway layups, they have centers that post their back on a defender, and create double teams on themselves to open up for the scorers....Refer to Kevin Garnett,Tim Duncan,Shaq, even Prince lanky skinny ***, and even Ben Wallace during many instances....

I mean K.G. wasn't always standin on top of the pain, waitin for a wide opened shot...He would go and try and muscle his way to the basket....

I've watched almost every nuggets game the last two seasons, and I mean, ALL OF THEM, and I haven't observed Camby do these techniques!! Camby reminds me of Mr. Glass, he tried avoiding gettin touched, and it's a downfall that really screws up our team...

Camby never positions himself to get a ball to where he can get his "back-to-basket" post up game...

But I agree, we need a PG that can do more, then get the ball to camby on special needs...But we need a center who is not afraid of getting hurt, and that has meet on him, like a NENE type of player...If NENE is healthy, that would be a great jumpstart for us, and Cmaby may work out, so lemme refrain.

I mean when it comes to goin one on one with a Ga

avsman05
06-20-2008, 09:29 PM
Ya our lineup should be

PG-AI
SG-JR
SF-Melo
PF-KMART
C-Camby

SUNDUNDIDIT
06-20-2008, 09:29 PM
I agree with all of this.

I'm for starting JR Smith.

Kleiza would be one hell of a sixth man.



Yes kind sir....I do believe J.R. has it in him..And I also kind of agree with you on Kenyon, he hasn't showed signs of being a dominant force....He has performed very badly in all the playoff appearences, and I have doubts about him, even tho I like the old KENYON, who was fierce.

Crunchy12489
06-20-2008, 09:30 PM
Camby only good at blocks tho...That necessarily don't result, as a complete dynamic to being a great defender, even tho he gets acclaim as great defender for doing so!! Not to mention, he makes all defensive teams, primarily because of his blocks....


Championship teams don't have centers that just settle for jump shots and halfway layups, they have centers that post their back on a defender, and create double teams on themselves to open up for the scorers....Refer to Kevin Garnett,Tim Duncan,Shaq, even Prince lanky skinny ***, and even Ben Wallace during many instances....

I mean K.G. wasn't always standin on top of the pain, waitin for a wide opened shot...He would go and try and muscle his way to the basket....

I've watched almost every nuggets game the last two seasons, and I mean, ALL OF THEM, and I haven't observed Camby do these techniques!! Camby reminds me of Mr. Glass, he tried avoiding gettin touched, and it's a downfall that really screws up our team...

Camby never positions himself to get a ball to where he can get his "back-to-basket" post up game...

But I agree, we need a PG that can do more, then get the ball to camby on special needs...But we need a center who is not afraid of getting hurt, and that has meet on him, like a NENE type of player...If NENE is healthy, that would be a great jumpstart for us, and Cmaby may work out, so lemme refrain.

I mean when it comes to goin one on one with a Ga

All of this is true.

What makes it hard for Allen Iverson and Carmelo Anthony to score 30+ a night consistently, is because they are the main focuses of attention. They are being held extremely hard because the defender knows they won't dish it out, they are going to force the shot. No one else on the squad can actually produce. That's why you see AI and Melo forcing retarted shots and shooting bad FG %es.

That, and the fact that we have no one else on the team that can finish (besides JR at times and Kleiza at times, only because they are young).

We have no post game! NONE. NADA. ZILCH.

C-Dub
06-20-2008, 09:49 PM
id like to start JR too, but if we get a PG it aint happening. If we tossed Camby while we can then we could move AI to point and start Smith and try to get like a better pick or like Artest or someone who would actually play D and spread the floor for us, but I think Kleiza and Camby should be traded, Najera helps sometimes and his 3's are kinda getting better. We could probably get a major player for and or a good draft pick for our pick, Camby and Kleiza...

Crunchy12489
06-20-2008, 09:52 PM
It would hurt me to see Camby and Kleiza moved :(

I think Camby is staying. Kleiza has been in trade talks and the deal could have went down for Artest this year.

You have to give up a little to gain much more.

DenButsu
06-21-2008, 02:18 AM
Then that statement wasn't thrown at you.

I know. It was thrown at me.

But you can ask any of the longtime posters in this forum who have seen what I've had to say for years, and they'll vouch for me that I'm no AI hater.

(I suspect that the only one who would disagree is ivyleague, with his unconditional, he-can-do-no-wrong, blind Iverson love :p j/k ivy, butcha know I'm right)

I'm not a hater of AI, Melo, Camby, or anyone else on the Nuggets.

But nobody is above criticism, and nobody is above reproach. And that includes Iverson.

I'm not a hater, but I won't be his apologist either. (Or Melo's for that matter. You won't find any posts of mine anyplace defending his DUI or defending his weak defense).

Before you start trying to define me as an AI hater, you should actually take the time to understand what it is I'm talking about.

I'm actually an AI fan. And a Melo fan. But far, far above either, I'm a NUGGETS FAN.

You're trying to oversimplify my position. You're trying to claim that because I think we've reached a point where it might be best for the Denver Nuggets that they part ways with AI, that I'm an AI hater. And my true feelings are very different from that. You haven't been posting here too long, and you don't know me, which is fine, but don't be so quick to judge.

When we first got Iverson, I was totally jazzed about it. And my excitement about the success that I thought his arrival would bring to the team continued for a long time. I love the player that AI is, the guts, the passion, the intensity. He always brings it, to the extent he can. I respect the hell out of him for sure.

And I will add this: For a lot of the lack of success, I do blame George Karl above anyone else. I think he failed to properly utilize Iverson to his best abilities, and the entire roster to their best abilities for that matter.



BUT HERE IS THE ULTIMATE, BEDROCK, BOTTOM LINE TRUTH ABOUT IVERSON ON THE NUGGETS:

HE HAS TO PLAY POINT GUARD FOR THIS TO WORK


Why? Well, the two main reasons are:

1. The Nuggets win more than 90% of their games when Iverson gets 10 or more assists, and he's much, much, much, much, MUCH more likely to get 10 or more assists if he's playing the point. And,

2. It's practically impossible to find a point guard who can play alongside Iverson. PGs are short, almost across the board and, like AI, unable to defend the league's shooting guards. And in the event we can find a pg who can play some defense (like Carter could, minimally), he can't shoot 3s and spread the floor.


Okay, fine. I've already made my case for AI playing the point before. Here's the thread I made about it last summer (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133970&highlight=iverson) (in which, for what it's worth, yours truly, this so-called "AI hater", was defending Iverson's distribution skills and saying he was better at it than Andre Miller).

Now, the real question to me is, why doesn't AI play point guard? Whose fault is that?

Well, I'd say it's party Karl's and it's party Iverson's. Iverson for stubbornly refusing to adapt his game to a more distributive role, instead falling into his old "hero mode" (has to do everything himself) ways. And Karl's for not only letting him get away with that, but actually encouraging it, pandering to it, saying things publicly like he can't really tell AI how to play because he's "not that kind of player". WTF, George, you're the goddamned coach, you're being paid millions of dollars EXACTLY because you're expected to tell your players how you need them to play for the best benefit of the team's success. Yes, if I had my way, Karl would be out the door real quick. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen, though. And I don't believe Karl for a milisecond when he say's he's going to just start coaching better next season. If he could, he'd have done so already by now.

So where does that leave us, then? With AI continuing to dominate the ball. With Karl continuing to run separate isos for AI and Melo, without them playing coordinated team ball together. With a wide open gaping hole in our pg-sg-sf defense. In the exact same damn win-lots-of-regular-season-games-but-lose-in-the-first-round hell we've been in for the last 5 years - and which Iverson was supposed to bail us out of, but didn't.


Now make no mistake, I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong about this. But the past 1 1/2 seasons have done little except to squash my hope and confirm my skepticism about what the Nuggets organization can accomplish with the AI-Melo duo. I've come to believe it must be broken up. And rebuilding (or partially rebuilding) a franchise around a player who will be 36 years old in three years is absolutely, completely, totally 100% INSANE.

So Melo's the keeper, and it's nothing personal against AI.

Fortunately for you, it looks like the FO is gonna give him another chance. I hope he proves me wrong.

But at the beginning of last season, he promised us he was going to prove the doubters wrong (http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_7236925).

And all we got when it was all said and done was another huge disappointment - once again. So I won't be believing the hype until they can be proving otherwise.

Crunchy12489
06-21-2008, 05:11 AM
I know. It was thrown at me.

But you can ask any of the longtime posters in this forum who have seen what I've had to say for years, and they'll vouch for me that I'm no AI hater.

(I suspect that the only one who would disagree is ivyleague, with his unconditional, he-can-do-no-wrong, blind Iverson love :p j/k ivy, butcha know I'm right)

I'm not a hater of AI, Melo, Camby, or anyone else on the Nuggets.

But nobody is above criticism, and nobody is above reproach. And that includes Iverson.

I'm not a hater, but I won't be his apologist either. (Or Melo's for that matter. You won't find any posts of mine anyplace defending his DUI or defending his weak defense).

Before you start trying to define me as an AI hater, you should actually take the time to understand what it is I'm talking about.

I'm actually an AI fan. And a Melo fan. But far, far above either, I'm a NUGGETS FAN.

You're trying to oversimplify my position. You're trying to claim that because I think we've reached a point where it might be best for the Denver Nuggets that they part ways with AI, that I'm an AI hater. And my true feelings are very different from that. You haven't been posting here too long, and you don't know me, which is fine, but don't be so quick to judge.

When we first got Iverson, I was totally jazzed about it. And my excitement about the success that I thought his arrival would bring to the team continued for a long time. I love the player that AI is, the guts, the passion, the intensity. He always brings it, to the extent he can. I respect the hell out of him for sure.

And I will add this: For a lot of the lack of success, I do blame George Karl above anyone else. I think he failed to properly utilize Iverson to his best abilities, and the entire roster to their best abilities for that matter.



BUT HERE IS THE ULTIMATE, BEDROCK, BOTTOM LINE TRUTH ABOUT IVERSON ON THE NUGGETS:

HE HAS TO PLAY POINT GUARD FOR THIS TO WORK


Why? Well, the two main reasons are:

1. The Nuggets win more than 90% of their games when Iverson gets 10 or more assists, and he's much, much, much, much, MUCH more likely to get 10 or more assists if he's playing the point. And,

2. It's practically impossible to find a point guard who can play alongside Iverson. PGs are short, almost across the board and, like AI, unable to defend the league's shooting guards. And in the event we can find a pg who can play some defense (like Carter could, minimally), he can't shoot 3s and spread the floor.


Okay, fine. I've already made my case for AI playing the point before. Here's the thread I made about it last summer (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133970&highlight=iverson) (in which, for what it's worth, yours truly, this so-called "AI hater", was defending Iverson's distribution skills and saying he was better at it than Andre Miller).

Now, the real question to me is, why doesn't AI play point guard? Whose fault is that?

Well, I'd say it's party Karl's and it's party Iverson's. Iverson for stubbornly refusing to adapt his game to a more distributive role, instead falling into his old "hero mode" (has to do everything himself) ways. And Karl's for not only letting him get away with that, but actually encouraging it, pandering to it, saying things publicly like he can't really tell AI how to play because he's "not that kind of player". WTF, George, you're the goddamned coach, you're being paid millions of dollars EXACTLY because you're expected to tell your players how you need them to play for the best benefit of the team's success. Yes, if I had my way, Karl would be out the door real quick. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen, though. And I don't believe Karl for a milisecond when he say's he's going to just start coaching better next season. If he could, he'd have done so already by now.

So where does that leave us, then? With AI continuing to dominate the ball. With Karl continuing to run separate isos for AI and Melo, without them playing coordinated team ball together. With a wide open gaping hole in our pg-sg-sf defense. In the exact same damn win-lots-of-regular-season-games-but-lose-in-the-first-round hell we've been in for the last 5 years - and which Iverson was supposed to bail us out of, but didn't.


Now make no mistake, I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong about this. But the past 1 1/2 seasons have done little except to squash my hope and confirm my skepticism about what the Nuggets organization can accomplish with the AI-Melo duo. I've come to believe it must be broken up. And rebuilding (or partially rebuilding) a franchise around a player who will be 36 years old in three years is absolutely, completely, totally 100% INSANE.

So Melo's the keeper, and it's nothing personal against AI.

Fortunately for you, it looks like the FO is gonna give him another chance. I hope he proves me wrong.

But at the beginning of last season, he promised us he was going to prove the doubters wrong (http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_7236925).

And all we got when it was all said and done was another huge disappointment - once again. So I won't be believing the hype until they can be proving otherwise.

You know whats funny.

It wasn't meant to be thrown at you.

Hah.

I said that for those who really couldn't stand him and was anticipating so badly for him to leave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GuIVsf4YxE&feature=related

One minute Denver fans like him, when we lose games Denver fans want to throw him out.

That's the only reason why I'm pissed. I feel the same way about Camby too. Camby is one of my favorite centers in the league, although he can't score for nothing. I'm defending AI AND Camby. Let's get this straight now.

Watch that video and look at 4:20. That shows me he still got PLENTY left in the tank. He made a nice dish off the steal too.

Is it just me? I notice when he goes to the basket and comes around the other side, he always has a man open. It's like the defense thinks hes going to score but it's an easy assist. He needs to use this much more often!

You know why we are a DANGEROUS team? Look at 5:58. That's why we are dangerous. If Carmelo would race down the court with AI in transition WHO KNOWS what seed we will be next year! JR Smith loves to run when AI has the ball in transition because he knows AI will pass to him.

I'm not defending Allen Iverson because he's one of my favorite players, I'm defending an athlete who plays every night like his last and his competitiveness is extremely fierce. Why get rid of a guy who pours THAT MUCH SWEAT into his jersey in probably the most important game all season long and THEN the Nuggets come out victorious? You see, you can't be shady with ANY player from your favorite team. If the players think Allen Iverson was the problem, then why in the hell do they want him back so damn badly?

I can't wait till next year!!!! It's Allen Iverson's last year of contract, George Karl SAYS he's making changes, and Carmelo has to bounce back HUGE from what he pulled this postseason. Hell, all of them do. That's why I think we are going to be a DAMN good team next season. Chucky Atkins also said he will finally get the chance to "push AI's buttons" because he will be running point. We'll see. Hopefully AI is running point next season but I doubt that.

Here's one more video that why I think we should keep Camby too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ268aMM50Q

Check that video out. Notice how AI took his first shot in the third quarter and still managed to drop 33 points, 7 rebounds, and 7 assists. Melo might be the franchise man, but AI should really be the leader. Chucky Atkins even said we have a leadership issue. YOU CANT HAVE A TRI-CAPTAIN TEAM!

Back to Camby, you just have to SET HIM UP. Check out :47. He can score if you know how to set him up. Hopefully the whole roster looked at the positive things they did and use it to their arsenal much more next year.

AI drew a TRIPLE team. A TRIPLE TEAM! He can pass to 2 wide open players if he drives every time!

DenButsu
06-21-2008, 06:34 AM
Okay, Crunchy, sorry if I was wrong but first of all the only reason I thought that was directed at me was because you said this to me in the other thread:




Judging by your comments, I would take you as a "hater".

Anyhow, I'm not worried about that much, except I don't want you or anyone else to think I'm just trying to bash AI, because that's totally not the case. I'm just not a true believer in the AI-Melo pairing as a legitimate championship stragegy anymore. And I don't completely blame either of them for that. I just think the combination has proven to be less compatible than I'd hoped it could become. Which is a real bummer for me to say. Because I do think it could have worked if everyone had worked harder at making it happen, and had a clearer vision (and a better team building strategy) for making it happen. Karl and the FO are more to blame, in my eyes, than either Melo or AI. But I hope that all of them work together to prove me wrong if they're all back next season, I really do.


I watched the videos you linked to, and I completely understand what you're saying. I love the Nuggets' fast break game. But come playoff time, we can't rely on that stuff. We have to be able to run a legit halfcourt offense as well. So, in response, to your vid links, here's another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDjAygeisHc

A similar montage could be made, of course, of Melo settling for jumpers. But the bottom line is that we have no overreaching offensive scheme that encompasses all five players on the floor right now. And part of the reason for that is that Melo operates somewhat independently. And part of the reason for that is Karl's lame coaching. But a lot of the reason for it is that AI is running around dribbling all the time and not pick-and-rolls, screen-and-rolls or, generally speaking identifiable set plays are being run whatsoever. This is part of the reason why I think if he stays he needs to spend more time at point, and Karl needs to tell him more specifically what to do. Having the point take it up the floor and give it to AI tends to result in an unfocused, chaotic approach.


As for Camby, well, AI's in the limelight now, so let's let him enjoy it. :cool: We'll have a long offseason to talk about each player. But for now all I'll do is ask you if you can tell me what I think is wrong with this picture:

Camby's shot selection:

Shot Att. eFG% Ast'd Blk'd Pts
Jump 57% .377 84% 1% 3.5
Close 21% .481 70% 8% 1.6
Dunk 11% .904 85% 1% 1.7
Tips 11% .343 0% 0% 0.6
Inside 43% .560 66% 4% 3.9

Crunchy12489
06-21-2008, 07:16 AM
We had no working strategy throughout the whole season. Looked like they played 81 pick-up games.

But who's fault is that? KARL!

Hmmm... His percentage his better off an assist for him to dunk. But he doesn't get much points off of dunks. His FG% is terrible with his jump shots. CLose range is a little better, but he gets blocked alot and doesn't get many points either. He's not so effective on tips either... He mostly takes jumpshots... That has to come to a stop... NOW!

The reason Camby is playing so terrible is because we don't have any offensive sets, which can all be pointed at Karl for this problem.

Karl has no clue what he's trying to do with this talented team.

DenButsu
06-21-2008, 07:33 AM
We had no working strategy throughout the whole season. Looked like they played 81 pick-up games.

But who's fault is that? KARL!

Hmmm... His percentage his better off an assist for him to dunk. But he doesn't get much points off of dunks. His FG% is terrible with his jump shots. CLose range is a little better, but he gets blocked alot and doesn't get many points either. He's not so effective on tips either... He mostly takes jumpshots... That has to come to a stop... NOW!

The reason Camby is playing so terrible is because we don't have any offensive sets, which can all be pointed at Karl for this problem.

Karl has no clue what he's trying to do with this talented team.

Bingo. :nod:

He doesn't play offense in the paint. He stands around at the top of the key and waits. And I really don't think we can pin that one on Karl. Camby is just a completely non-aggressive player. He doesn't post up. Ever. Another poster recently said something like, "Have you ever seen another starting center in the nba EVER who never posts up?" And I'm thinking: "Nope."

I love what Camby has done for the Nuggets for so many years. He's been a rock for us. But the writing's on the wall for him now; he's gonna get traded. And that's a move I definitely support the FO making - but ONLY, of course, provided that we get value back in return. And we're just going to have to keep our fingers crossed and hope that Nene gets healthy.

C-Dub
06-21-2008, 09:44 AM
Nene is a beast, no matter what happens with Camby, Nene should start center for us next season.Then if we get a bigman in the draft, they can learn how a bigman actually plays. Camby for Billups....or Sheed, has anyone heard anything else on those possible trades?

Crunchy12489
06-21-2008, 10:00 AM
Man if we got Billups, I would be confident to say NBA CHAMPS!

Game_Over
06-21-2008, 03:44 PM
Man if we got Billups, I would be confident to say NBA CHAMPS!

Maybe win a series or two I dunno about Champs..

Crunchy12489
06-21-2008, 05:29 PM
Maybe win a series or two I dunno about Champs..

SCRATCH THAT.

There's no way that Allen Iverson and Chauncey Billups can be successful on one team.

AI holds the ball too much for Chauncey to really shine. Plus you can't have three all-stars (such as themselves) on one team. I mean yeah, the Celtics have it, but we aren't the Celtics. We have alot of egos on this team and i seriously doubt the Chauncey, AI, and Melo thing would work.

It would be nice, but I'm sure it wouldn't work out.

DJiC
06-21-2008, 05:58 PM
how bout instead of finding a star pg we find a freakin star C or PF? cause even if we have allstar sf/sg/pg our pf/c is pathetic i say get a decent PG and get an all star pf or c

Mets4Life101
06-21-2008, 06:57 PM
Iverson is the man! GO NUGGETS!!

Crunchy12489
06-22-2008, 05:57 AM
how bout instead of finding a star pg we find a freakin star C or PF? cause even if we have allstar sf/sg/pg our pf/c is pathetic i say get a decent PG and get an all star pf or c

I agree. We have to have a threat in the paint. We haven't had a threat in the paint for what, 5 years? 6 Years? When Camby came from the Knicks.

BostonFan 53
07-31-2008, 04:52 AM
The playoffs are a very realistic goal for this team. They lost their best defensive player, but added a pretty good player too.