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View Full Version : Question for all the Rose backers.



DabullsDabearsD
06-20-2008, 07:38 PM
What #'s would Beasley have to put up next year for you to regret the Bulls not taking him?

97'bulls
06-20-2008, 07:43 PM
twenty and ten, but it depends how Rose plays. If Rose put up like twenties and like atleast 8 assists I'd still be happy.

playanomor
06-20-2008, 07:46 PM
What kinda numbers would he have to put up?? 50 Wins.

ChitownbullsBG7
06-20-2008, 07:49 PM
Doesnt matter. Judgement cant be made until both hit their prime. Now if The Heat or whatever team he goes to WINS a TITLE, their may be regret. But ive said here i think that he is a 18 and 8 guy right off the bat, but that doesnt mean he will have the right impact on a team.

Rose will put up 14 and 6 in his first year but he will make his teammates better with him.

You said in another thread that coaches said Beasley was a good leader. Then how come he didnt get his team involved. Kobe said it best during an interview with Stephen A. Smith during the playoffs, i finally found out how to be a true leader and get my teammates involved". He didnt want to share his secret about how but thats his problem. Look at LBJ, He has perhaps the worse team ever to ever reach the Finals.

Want to know how he did it? He got his teammates confident by defering to them to start out games and then he would take over in the spots that he HAD to.

Beasley NEVER looked for his teammates and never looked to better them. Ask Kobe and he will tell you that isnt a true leader.

THEbigO
06-20-2008, 07:50 PM
youd only "still be happy" if rose put up points in the 20s and 8 assists? id be ecstatic. beasely would have to put up more than 20 and 10 for me to regret it if those are the numbers rose has. problem with this question is you cant regret the pick for at least a few years. look at chris paul. he was good as a rookie but hit that next level this year.

ATOMICBULL
06-20-2008, 07:53 PM
Beasleys team was terrible were talking about kansas St they had one other guy in Walker! Jay williams put up the same numbers that rose put up in his freshamn year and he stayed 2 more years to develope he Avg 9 , 4 and 2 for the bulls so i think your expectations of Rose are little to high!

97'bulls
06-20-2008, 08:02 PM
youd only "still be happy" if rose put up points in the 20s and 8 assists? id be ecstatic. beasely would have to put up more than 20 and 10 for me to regret it if those are the numbers rose has. problem with this question is you cant regret the pick for at least a few years. look at chris paul. he was good as a rookie but hit that next level this year.

Lebron wasn't extremely good in his rookie season.

Derrick_Rose
06-20-2008, 08:05 PM
LBJ averaged 20 his rookie year if I'm not mistaken. My question is, why would we want Mike Beasley, who is 6'7'', when we already have Lu, who is 6'9'', Tyrus, who is 6'10'', and Joakim, who is 7'0 or 6'11''. Beasley is a slasher that we already have in Deng. BRING ROSE HOME!

97'bulls
06-20-2008, 08:11 PM
LBJ averaged 20 his rookie year if I'm not mistaken. My question is, why would we want Mike Beasley, who is 6'7'', when we already have Lu, who is 6'9'', Tyrus, who is 6'10'', and Joakim, who is 7'0 or 6'11''. Beasley is a slasher that we already have in Deng. BRING ROSE HOME!

Yes he did average twenty... All I'm saying is that he didn't have a historic rookie year. I will say though that Beasely will be a major matchup problem in the years to come. I just think the Rose is too good to pass up.

kozelkid
06-20-2008, 08:14 PM
What #'s would Beasley have to put up next year for you to regret the Bulls not taking him?

the funny thing is you think that it's all about instant impact. IT'S NOT! I am rose fan, but I think that beasley will have a better rookie season, however, I am also nto going to be stupid enough to say beasley will get "30ppg/15reb", or rose will get 30ppg/15apg.
On to the rookie season. IDC what numbers beas, puts up, I wouldnt care. Beas will have good numbers like I said, but honestly I dont expect much of a change from him from then on out. Rose, on the other hand will go through a longer 2-3 month transition period, before he starts out good.
I imagine beasley getting something around 18-20ppg/7-9rpg. it also depends what position he plays on and if he does play on the heat, I dont think he would necessary have THAT flashy kind of stats since they already have wade, who he has to share the ball with. But those numbers look realistic to me. I think rose will have first 2-3 months where he will average something around 14ppg/5-6ast. I think by end of the season he will have something around 18ppg/8ast, and in the end average out to around 16ppg/7ast. Again, he is going through a harder transition so to be fair, I wont be making any judgement on who is the better pick until year 4, since again rose's transition will be longer and tougher, playing a much tougher position. but in the long run I still think rose will be the better player and have a career average alone the lines of 20-22ppg/10-12apg, while beasley will probably have something along the lines of 22-24ppg/8-10rpg. The rebounds will definitly be questionable because if he is a SF, he wont be getting 10 for sure, but even as a PF, I dont see him becoming that good of a rebounder, he seems to remind me ALOT of amare, a guy who can score a crapload but not a very good defender, who wont get you a crapload of rebounds. Only thing he has on amare is a far better range, but at the same time, his post presence wont be nearly as good.
In the end of the day I take rose, because while beasley may average more ppg, rose will definitly get far more of his teammates involed which equals another +24-30 points, not to mention rose is very much compared to kidd so I can also see him getting around 4-7rpg in his career average

DeShaun Brown
06-20-2008, 08:34 PM
It not only depends on Roses numbers but also the effect he has on the other players around him. I like them both but I just think that the current defensive rules would greatly benefit Rose. That's why so many other PGs are having the success they are having.

ABTY7
06-20-2008, 08:45 PM
Derrick Rose 1st year projections: 11.7 pts, 6.9 asst, 4.8 rebs

Michael Beasley 1st year projections: 20.8 pts, 8.6 rebs, 3.1 asst

... Those numbers are realistic projections based off of- 1.) the talent surrounding both players, 2.) the fact that NBA PG's never 'dominate' their rookie year and 3.)Comparable players rookie year production (Paul, Kidd for Rose)(Glenn Robinson/Derrick Coleman for Beasley)

Most likely Beasley will max out at about 25 pts/10 rebs/4 asst (pretty close to Glenn Robinson's max production- more rebounds however) whereas Rose will most likely max out at 18 pts/10 asst/6 rebs (more offensive verison of Kidd's max)

All that being said, Beasley really couldn't do anything his rookie year for me to feel disappointed- we're in a true Win-win situation...

Kyben36
06-20-2008, 08:52 PM
Paul put up 8 assist and 17 point average his rok Year and Wlliams put up 10 points per game and 4.5 assist. Williams did not have a spectacular rok year but still turned out great. I dont think any stats will make me regret geting rid of Hinrich and trading in for rose and there is one other stat I would like to bring up. Nash averaged 3.3 points a game his rok year with 2 assist per game. I do not think rokie year stats matter. I just want to see Rose Get better.

canigetawitness
06-20-2008, 09:06 PM
What kinda numbers would he have to put up?? 50 Wins.

Right on! The only stat that matters.

TrueFan23
06-20-2008, 09:23 PM
a triple double

mschmidt64
06-20-2008, 11:09 PM
LBJ averaged 20 his rookie year if I'm not mistaken. My question is, why would we want Mike Beasley, who is 6'7'', when we already have Lu, who is 6'9'', Tyrus, who is 6'10'', and Joakim, who is 7'0 or 6'11''. Beasley is a slasher that we already have in Deng. BRING ROSE HOME!

Uh, because Beasley is better than any of them.

That being said, I have no problem with Rose, but it's like saying why would we want Rose when we have Hinrich.

BullsNumber1Fan
06-20-2008, 11:58 PM
Here's something that also hasn't been brought up, Derrick Rose avg 20.8 ppg 6.5 rpg 6.0 apg in the tournament in which they should have won the National Championship! You can't tell me that is not good!

Swish-Cab-Ob
06-21-2008, 12:08 AM
I think that Rose will average around 13 points, 3 rebounds, and 6 assists his rookie year. It's going to take sometime for him to develop I think.

ABTY7
06-21-2008, 12:09 AM
Here's something that also hasn't been brought up, Derrick Rose avg 20.8 ppg 6.5 rpg 6.0 apg in the tournament in which they should have won the National Championship! You can't tell me that is not good!

It's wonderful- however that shouldn't have any affect on if we pick him or Beasley- and in fact it won't...

iidestined
06-21-2008, 12:22 AM
The only number I care about are the number of wins the bulls have with Rose running the show.

BigBallinman
06-21-2008, 12:31 AM
Paul put up 8 assist and 17 point average his rok Year and Wlliams put up 10 points per game and 4.5 assist. Williams did not have a spectacular rok year but still turned out great. I dont think any stats will make me regret geting rid of Hinrich and trading in for rose and there is one other stat I would like to bring up. Nash averaged 3.3 points a game his rok year with 2 assist per game. I do not think rokie year stats matter. I just want to see Rose Get better.

BLAH BLAH,I'm tired of people talking about D.Will and Paul when Rose's name comes up,were talking about the best 2 point guards in the league,I love rose's game but he is not the same type of point guard that those 2 are,please people stop with the comparisons there aren't any,rose is more of a scoring point guard as in Marbury or steve francis,thats what your going to get a marbury or francis not a D.Will or Chris Paul!!!!!!!

The Smurf
06-21-2008, 12:31 AM
Derrick Rose 1st year projections: 11.7 pts, 6.9 asst, 4.8 rebs

Michael Beasley 1st year projections: 20.8 pts, 8.6 rebs, 3.1 asst

... Those numbers are realistic projections based off of- 1.) the talent surrounding both players, 2.) the fact that NBA PG's never 'dominate' their rookie year and 3.)Comparable players rookie year production (Paul, Kidd for Rose)(Glenn Robinson/Derrick Coleman for Beasley)

Most likely Beasley will max out at about 25 pts/10 rebs/4 asst (pretty close to Glenn Robinson's max production- more rebounds however) whereas Rose will most likely max out at 18 pts/10 asst/6 rebs (more offensive verison of Kidd's max)

All that being said, Beasley really couldn't do anything his rookie year for me to feel disappointed- we're in a true Win-win situation...



I agree with everything you have said, but I take exception to you using tduncanspeaks' mail order bride's photo on this website. Stats mean almost nothing rookie year. beasley will put up better numbers. The question is, who makes the Bulls better??? I am not sure. Up until a couple of weeks ago I was sold on Rose, but I feel like Beasley might be one of those special talents who shouldnt be passed on/ The Bulls are in a great position, as long as Hinrich is gone.

Smurf knows karate, I am a yellow belt.

JordansBulls
06-21-2008, 12:36 AM
What #'s would Beasley have to put up next year for you to regret the Bulls not taking him?

I did a thread like this a few weeks back and most agreed that Beasley would have the better numbers in his rookie year.

BigBallinman
06-21-2008, 12:44 AM
Uh, because Beasley is better than any of them.

That being said, I have no problem with Rose, but it's like saying why would we want Rose when we have Hinrich.

We invested too much in Hinrich,unless there is a draft day trade that includes Hinrich you can bet the farm that Beasley will be the pick,which is what I'm betting on ,all this Rose staying home is just media hype,I like rose's game but with the current roster he is not needed as much as Beasley,I believe that Hinrich will rebound from his poor season last year as will deng,and if you add a dependable low post scorer like beasley into the mix that would be the bulls best move,and who said you have to be 10 feet tall to score in the post,hell elton brand is 6'8 and I didn't hear all this undersized stuff,and most of you want him back and he is the same size as beasley.

kozelkid
06-21-2008, 12:45 AM
We invested too much in Hinrich,unless there is a draft day trade that includes Hinrich you can bet the farm that Beasley will be the pick,which is what I'm betting on ,all this Rose staying home is just media hype,I like rose's game but with the current roster he is not needed as much as Beasley,I believe that Hinrich will rebound from his poor season last year as will deng,and if you add a dependable low post scorer like beasley into the mix that would be the bulls best move,and who said you have to be 10 feet tall to score in the post,hell elton brand is 6'8 and I didn't hear all this undersized stuff,and most of you want him back and he is the same size as beasley.

clearly you are not the one who reads the news.
dude, at this point, it's almost set that rose is the pick. get over it.

97'bulls
06-21-2008, 12:47 AM
We invested too much in Hinrich,unless there is a draft day trade that includes Hinrich you can bet the farm that Beasley will be the pick,which is what I'm betting on ,all this Rose staying home is just media hype,I like rose's game but with the current roster he is not needed as much as Beasley,I believe that Hinrich will rebound from his poor season last year as will deng,and if you add a dependable low post scorer like beasley into the mix that would be the bulls best move,and who said you have to be 10 feet tall to score in the post,hell elton brand is 6'8 and I didn't hear all this undersized stuff,and most of you want him back and he is the same size as beasley.

I agree with you on everything... However I think if we lose Gordon and draft Rose things will still work out. We might even be able to keep BG and get rid of Deng. I think its pretty much a concensus that we all wanna get rid of hughes but nobody will take him. Beasley is like a perfect fit for this team... But Rose shows just too much promise to pass up. Plus with Rose we'll be better in NBA 2K9. :)

BigBallinman
06-21-2008, 12:48 AM
clearly you are not the one who reads the news.
dude, at this point, it's almost set that rose is the pick. get over it.

what news are you reading can those people tell the future.if they can please let me know next weeks lottery numbers

kozelkid
06-21-2008, 12:52 AM
what news are you reading can those people tell the future.if they can please let me know next weeks lottery numbers

umm you know
the fact that rose didnt even want to go to miami's workouts, or that he broke into a sudden state of blissfullness, or that now every analyst thinks that rose is the pick.
again get over it, we all know you love beas, but he is as good as a heat

BigBallinman
06-21-2008, 12:56 AM
I agree with you on everything... However I think if we lose Gordon and draft Rose things will still work out. We might even be able to keep BG and get rid of Deng. I think its pretty much a concensus that we all wanna get rid of hughes but nobody will take him. Beasley is like a perfect fit for this team... But Rose shows just too much promise to pass up. Plus with Rose we'll be better in NBA 2K9. :)

Rose show's a lot of promise but him and hinrich together will not work,beasley will give instant success,I think rose will take some time by that time beasley will already be a all star,to me it's almost like what more could this kid have done he had one of the most remarkable seasons in a very long time not just by a freshmen.

BigBallinman
06-21-2008, 12:57 AM
umm you know
the fact that rose didnt even want to go to miami's workouts, or that he broke into a sudden state of blissfullness, or that now every analyst thinks that rose is the pick.
again get over it, we all know you love beas, but he is as good as a heat

man I hope your on the forum come draft night for me to throw it up in your face.

97'bulls
06-21-2008, 01:00 AM
Rose show's a lot of promise but him and hinrich together will not work,beasley will give instant success,I think rose will take some time by that time beasley will already be a all star,to me it's almost like what more could this kid have done he had one of the most remarkable seasons in a very long time not just by a freshmen.

I agree that Beasely would bring instant success. But why would Rose and Kirk not work together. It to me seems like it would work fabulously.

kozelkid
06-21-2008, 01:05 AM
man I hope your on the forum come draft night for me to throw it up in your face.

lol, how about loser banned for 3 days?

kozelkid
06-21-2008, 01:07 AM
Rose show's a lot of promise but him and hinrich together will not work,beasley will give instant success,I think rose will take some time by that time beasley will already be a all star,to me it's almost like what more could this kid have done he had one of the most remarkable seasons in a very long time not just by a freshmen.

maybe because adding beas to this core wont get you to the championship. It's pretty clear this team needs more than one potential allstar to get to a championship.
bulls are going to rebuild and rose is the perfect player to start a dynasty

BigBallinman
06-21-2008, 01:10 AM
I agree that Beasely would bring instant success. But why would Rose and Kirk not work together. It to me seems like it would work fabulously.

I dont think kirk would cut it as a 2 guard,he's a point guard he just had a bad season,heck just a couple of years ago he was part of the national team now people view him as a scrub of a point guard I think hinrich would do well enough for us to stay at that position beasley is a bigger need if there aren't any moves made which we can't depend on,hinirich plays his postion better than our bigs play there position that is why i believe that beasley is needed more because there were a few of the bulls players that had a bad season last year but i believe that hinrich will be the one that has a lot to prove come next year.

BigBallinman
06-21-2008, 01:14 AM
lol, how about loser banned for 3 days?

Your on,don't get me wrong I like roses game but I'm telling you he will not be the one that the bulls take,by the way rose is showing up in miami

kozelkid
06-21-2008, 01:16 AM
Your on,don't get me wrong I like roses game but I'm telling you he will not be the one that the bulls take,by the way rose is showing up in miami

to show respect, duh. he didnt want to at firs though.
see, I dont have a problem with you in general, but some of you beas fans are SO cocky, when it's pretty obvious at this point that rose is the pick. I mean that's why almost all the anaylsts and fans in this forum are now turning to rose.
you are going to have to face it, they need to rebuild and rose will be that beginning.

LayZbone
06-21-2008, 01:22 AM
Doesnt matter. Judgement cant be made until both hit their prime. Now if The Heat or whatever team he goes to WINS a TITLE, their may be regret. But ive said here i think that he is a 18 and 8 guy right off the bat, but that doesnt mean he will have the right impact on a team.

Rose will put up 14 and 6 in his first year but he will make his teammates better with him.

You said in another thread that coaches said Beasley was a good leader. Then how come he didnt get his team involved. Kobe said it best during an interview with Stephen A. Smith during the playoffs, i finally found out how to be a true leader and get my teammates involved". He didnt want to share his secret about how but thats his problem. Look at LBJ, He has perhaps the worse team ever to ever reach the Finals.

Want to know how he did it? He got his teammates confident by defering to them to start out games and then he would take over in the spots that he HAD to.

Beasley NEVER looked for his teammates and never looked to better them. Ask Kobe and he will tell you that isnt a true leader.

good thing the heat already have a leader.

BigBallinman
06-21-2008, 01:24 AM
to show respect, duh. he didnt want to at firs though.
see, I dont have a problem with you in general, but some of you beas fans are SO cocky, when it's pretty obvious at this point that rose is the pick. I mean that's why almost all the anaylsts and fans in this forum are now turning to rose.
you are going to have to face it, they need to rebuild and rose will be that beginning.

Lets get it straight I'm a bulls fan not a beasley fan or a rose fan,i just believe that beasley will be the one that the bulls take,i think all of this rose stuff is just media hype but in the end the bulls will take the better player in which i believe is beasley he proved it to the world the entire season not just the ncaa's rose wasn't even mentioned as a possible 1 pick till the ncaa's.

kozelkid
06-21-2008, 01:28 AM
Lets get it straight I'm a bulls fan not a beasley fan or a rose fan,i just believe that beasley will be the one that the bulls take,i think all of this rose stuff is just media hype but in the end the bulls will take the better player in which i believe is beasley he proved it to the world the entire season not just the ncaa's rose wasn't even mentioned as a possible 1 pick till the ncaa's.

what amazes this is that people think beasley will be the better pick because of only one season. I mean seriously, havent you guys ever realized that it usually takes a longer transition for pgs than forwards. yet, by the end of the year, rose was posting better stats because he started getting used to it and the fact that he dominated the tourney shows he can take the higher level of competition while beasley actually played pretty poorly against the better big man in the league.

LayZbone
06-21-2008, 01:31 AM
what amazes this is that people think beasley will be the better pick because of only one season. I mean seriously, havent you guys ever realized that it usually takes a longer transition for pgs than forwards. yet, by the end of the year, rose was posting better stats because he started getting used to it and the fact that he dominated the tourney shows he can take the higher level of competition while beasley actually played pretty poorly against the better big man in the league.

i've never seen so many people split 50-50 between 2 guys...i think this is even bigger than oden-durant.

BigBallinman
06-21-2008, 01:38 AM
i've never seen so many people split 50-50 between 2 guys...i think this is even bigger than oden-durant.

That's what the media wants it brings excitement to the draft especially with rose being a hometown kid,but the pick will be beasley trust me on this.

BullsNumber1Fan
06-21-2008, 01:39 AM
^^I agree. I think it'll end up like last year though when the Bulls choose someone who can anchor the team for 10-12 years and not just a scorer. Oden and Rose can be anchors for a team, where as Durant and Beasley are scorers but Beasley is just a little more talented overall IMO. They don't play a position where you can build a dyansty around them(Small Foward).

kozelkid
06-21-2008, 01:39 AM
i've never seen so many people split 50-50 between 2 guys...i think this is even bigger than oden-durant.

ya.. but oden was a pretty obvious pick.
i thought the 04 1+2 was very close? between okafor and dwight, dont really remember though...
I think for the most part people have been high on beasley, but ever since the tourney when rose destroyed 3 of best backcourts (kansas, texas, ucla), lot of heads began to turn and rightfully so.
I think being chicago has alot to do with it. had it been say... seattle, there would have been much debate since they could use a PF and could use a pg... though i think rose would fit better for them since durant and beasley, 2 dynamic scorers, wouldnt like sharing :D

kozelkid
06-21-2008, 01:41 AM
^^I agree. I think it'll end up like last year though when the Bulls choose someone who can anchor the team for 10-12 years and not just a scorer. Oden and Rose can be anchors for a team, where as Durant and Beasley are scorers but Beasley is just a little more talented overall IMO. They don't play a position where you can build a dyansty around(Small Foward).

exactly, id love beasley as a player on our team, but now way as our anchor or leader. he has zero leadership qualities, and just doesnt play like an anchor like you said..
therefore rose is probably the better pick, if bulls look to rebuild and even if they werent, beasley would still be leader, which isnt a good idea...
and and with the number #1 overall pick in the 2008 draft, the bulls select, memphis pg, DERRICK ROSE

LayZbone
06-21-2008, 01:45 AM
exactly, id love beasley as a player on our team, but now way as our anchor or leader. he has zero leadership qualities, and just doesnt play like an anchor like you said..
therefore rose is probably the better pick, if bulls look to rebuild and even if they werent, beasley would still be leader, which isnt a good idea...
and and with the number #1 overall pick in the 2008 draft, the bulls select, memphis pg, DERRICK ROSE

yeah chicago has a lot of good players, but no stars. miami has 2 (wade and marion). wade is already a great leader, so miami might be the better fit for beasley. he can focus on putting up 20/10.

BullsNumber1Fan
06-21-2008, 01:46 AM
I wish we could have them both but I want someone who could lead this team WHEN they make a deep run in the playoffs some time soon like what Paul, Williams did with their teams.

BigBallinman
06-21-2008, 01:47 AM
ya.. but oden was a pretty obvious pick.
i thought the 04 1+2 was very close? between okafor and dwight, dont really remember though...
I think for the most part people have been high on beasley, but ever since the tourney when rose destroyed 3 of best backcourts (kansas, texas, ucla), lot of heads began to turn and rightfully so.
I think being chicago has alot to do with it. had it been say... seattle, there would have been much debate since they could use a PF and could use a pg... though i think rose would fit better for them since durant and beasley, 2 dynamic scorers, wouldnt like sharing :D

This is no different than last year when oden's name was thrown around all year as the number 1 pick then all of a sudden durant's name got thrown into the mix,the media doesn't want a one man race and that is why rose's name is being thrown into the mix he is the durant of last year but in the end the results will be the same.

BigBallinman
06-21-2008, 01:50 AM
I wish we could have them both but I want someone who could lead this team WHEN they make a deep run in the playoffs some time soon like what Paul, Williams did with their teams.

man will people stop bringing up chris paul and deron williams when rose name comes up,rose is not the same type of player as those 2,marbury or steve francis would be a better comparison.

kozelkid
06-21-2008, 01:51 AM
This is no different than last year when oden's name was thrown around all year as the number 1 pick then all of a sudden durant's name got thrown into the mix,the media doesn't want a one man race and that is why rose's name is being thrown into the mix he is the durant of last year but in the end the results will be the same.

no it's completely different from last year lol. everyone knew durant would never be the pick. rose vs beasley has always been close. yet now finally rose is the obvious pick. obviously pax told something if rose starting talking about all these wonderful things about the bulls right after leading the interview AND after being super careful about being polite to both teams.
rose is the #1 pick, and everyone knows it. he's a pax pick, he has the right attitude that pax loves AND would you think pax would actualyl give up on a young frontcourt that consists of tt, noah, and deng at the forward spots that beasley would play, considering only good news has been heard of them. not to mentino vdn said they will probably be keeping all 3 of them along with thabo and they need a leader (aka rose). again, it's pretty obvious rose is the pick.

BullsNumber1Fan
06-21-2008, 01:51 AM
I never compared them, I just said I hope they can bring them far into the playoffs like they did. READ the post before you reply!!!!!!

kozelkid
06-21-2008, 01:52 AM
man will people stop bringing up chris paul and deron williams when rose name comes up,rose is not the same type of player as those 2,marbury or steve francis would be a better comparison.

except francis is a combo gaurd and if he becomes what marbury could have been, then he will still be on the same level as deron and cp3. dont compare rose to bad gaurds jsut cause you dont want him to be the pick
he is the pick, and their new franchise player:smoking:

BigBallinman
06-21-2008, 01:55 AM
I never compared them, I just said I hope they can bring them far into the playoffs like they did. READ the post before you reply!!!!!!

I read your post, chris paul and deron williams is what people want but what I am saying is we will not get that with rose he is more like marbury and steve francis a athletic scoring point guard, he has not showed me that he can be that kind of leader that chris paul or deron williams is and I've watched him play since he was a sophmore in high school.

BigBallinman
06-21-2008, 01:58 AM
except francis is a combo gaurd and if he becomes what marbury could have been, then he will still be on the same level as deron and cp3. dont compare rose to bad gaurds jsut cause you dont want him to be the pick
he is the pick, and their new franchise player:smoking:

I dont think marbury or francis are bad guards,what I'm saying is rose plays more like those two than he does paul or williams

kozelkid
06-21-2008, 02:00 AM
I dont think marbury or francis are bad guards,what I'm saying is rose plays more like those two than he does paul or williams

he is classified as a pass first pg, unlike either though... his stats are almost identical to paul's and deron'sas freshman (except paul averaged mroe assists less points, while deron averaged less point and assists)
I'd still take a potential marbury over a potential melo.

BigBallinman
06-21-2008, 02:02 AM
no it's completely different from last year lol. everyone knew durant would never be the pick. rose vs beasley has always been close. yet now finally rose is the obvious pick. obviously pax told something if rose starting talking about all these wonderful things about the bulls right after leading the interview AND after being super careful about being polite to both teams.
rose is the #1 pick, and everyone knows it. he's a pax pick, he has the right attitude that pax loves AND would you think pax would actualyl give up on a young frontcourt that consists of tt, noah, and deng at the forward spots that beasley would play, considering only good news has been heard of them. not to mentino vdn said they will probably be keeping all 3 of them along with thabo and they need a leader (aka rose). again, it's pretty obvious rose is the pick.

all just media, rose and beasley is not even really close it is beasley by a landslide you will see come draft day 2 of paxsons closet's friends believe it will be beasley,so you keep listening to the media,the media will steer you wrong every time

BigBallinman
06-21-2008, 02:04 AM
he is classified as a pass first pg, unlike either though... his stats are almost identical to paul's and deron'sas freshman (except paul averaged mroe assists less points, while deron averaged less point and assists)
I'd still take a potential marbury over a potential melo.

wow,people can hate on melo all they want but the guy is a superstar in the league

kozelkid
06-21-2008, 02:06 AM
all just media, rose and beasley is not even really close it is beasley by a landslide you will see come draft day 2 of paxsons closet's friends believe it will be beasley,so you keep listening to the media,the media will steer you wrong every time

:sigh:
god, i am so tired arguing with these delusional beasley fans:rolleyes:. I just cant wait til this draft and see their reastions, now that will be priceless. I am done, this is such a waste of time, considering all the obvious reasons pointing to rose, yet you STILL think it's beasley. I am not even arguing about whose better cause anything can happen, but the fact that rose is goign to be the #1 pick is beyond obvious, and here's your excuse abotu media crap. I bet you would be singing a diffrent tune had it been the opposite. think what you want, but when you cant post following the draft, you'll know why:smoking:

kozelkid
06-21-2008, 02:07 AM
wow,people can hate on melo all they want but the guy is a superstar in the league

some superstar?:rolleyes:
the guy is playing with a future hof AND a dpoy the year annual candidate, and still cant find his way out of the first round :rolleyes:

Blue Tiger
06-21-2008, 02:19 AM
LBJ averaged 20 his rookie year if I'm not mistaken. My question is, why would we want Mike Beasley, who is 6'7'', when we already have Lu, who is 6'9'', Tyrus, who is 6'10'', and Joakim, who is 7'0 or 6'11''. Beasley is a slasher that we already have in Deng. BRING ROSE HOME!

Michael is 6'9.

kozelkid
06-21-2008, 02:32 AM
Michael is 6'9.

he's 6'8 1/4 (with shoes). I dont want beasley but the height excuse is pretty weak. he also has a very long armspan. I dont want him to be the number 1 pick for other reasons though

violetuniverse
06-21-2008, 10:02 AM
:sigh:
god, i am so tired arguing with these delusional beasley fans:rolleyes:. I just cant wait til this draft and see their reastions, now that will be priceless. I am done, this is such a waste of time, considering all the obvious reasons pointing to rose, yet you STILL think it's beasley. I am not even arguing about whose better cause anything can happen, but the fact that rose is goign to be the #1 pick is beyond obvious, and here's your excuse abotu media crap. I bet you would be singing a diffrent tune had it been the opposite. think what you want, but when you cant post following the draft, you'll know why:smoking:

i cant wait to see the rose fans if they dont pick him. rose is going to work out w the heat so its not 100% certain that he will be the pick....just because im a beasley fan doesnt make me delusional....i dont go around saying rose fans are delusional...its your choice and not everyone likes the same thing

Ski
06-21-2008, 10:08 AM
violet, just campaign to get both like I am :D. It's hard not to love both players, and you really miss out on a lot by just pulling for one guy.

violetuniverse
06-21-2008, 10:19 AM
lol. id love to get both, but i read in an article that john paxson doesnt want to get younger and i cant see the heat trading #2 for kirk and deng. imo, that would be a steal for us...pax has given no indication he might try to get both

mschmidt64
06-21-2008, 10:26 AM
Michael is 6'9.

Where have you been? He's 6'7 without shoes. It's been all over the news.

violetuniverse
06-21-2008, 10:29 AM
6'7..isnt that with shoes off

ChitownbullsBG7
06-21-2008, 10:32 AM
I feel you on the whole Beasley thing though. Like ive said plenty of times, i will welcome either of them. I mean we were suppose to be drafting JORDAN or LOVE, now we are talking about INSANE ROSE and BEASTLEY Beasley.

IM 52% and 48% towards Rose, but i wouldnt be upset at all if we chose Beasley.

What will be a bummer is that the Heat draft him and get another Championship off of two guys that we should have had!

scandaless2
06-21-2008, 10:39 AM
I feel you on the whole Beasley thing though. Like ive said plenty of times, i will welcome either of them. I mean we were suppose to be drafting JORDAN or LOVE, now we are talking about INSANE ROSE and BEASTLEY Beasley.

IM 52% and 48% towards Rose, but i wouldnt be upset at all if we chose Beasley.

What will be a bummer is that the Heat draft him and get another Championship off of two guys that we should have had!

im about 60% d-rose and 40% b-eazy

97'bulls
06-21-2008, 12:28 PM
I dont think kirk would cut it as a 2 guard,he's a point guard he just had a bad season,heck just a couple of years ago he was part of the national team now people view him as a scrub of a point guard I think hinrich would do well enough for us to stay at that position beasley is a bigger need if there aren't any moves made which we can't depend on,hinirich plays his postion better than our bigs play there position that is why i believe that beasley is needed more because there were a few of the bulls players that had a bad season last year but i believe that hinrich will be the one that has a lot to prove come next year.

I agree with almost everything. It's just that the only people who view Hinrich as a scrub are the Bulls fans on this forum (not all). Most people understand what happened last season and knows that he's better than that. I have very little doubt that he'll have a breakout year next season. But he needs to get the ball to do that. Deng and Gordon can't break fast breaks with pull-up 19 footers.

root21
06-21-2008, 01:03 PM
That's exactly Beasley's problem. He will put up great numbers but he wont be a winner. He wont do WHATEVER IT TAKES TO WIN and Rose will. Beasley's numbers will be better but Charles Barkely had great numbers but never won a title. That is how I see Beasley.

MGB
06-21-2008, 01:26 PM
The stats Beasley would have to put up as a rookie? 6'10" 250 lbs, otherwise, he just contributes to a log-jam at SF.

BullySixChicago
06-22-2008, 12:42 PM
What #'s would Beasley have to put up next year for you to regret the Bulls not taking him?who cares what beasley does? Its important that we get Rose simply because of your statement. That statement says it all his numbers but Rose will help others numbers get better. So if beasley avg 20-10 big deal Rose avg 12 6 and 10 12 points 6 boards and 10 assists who wins rookie of year Rose.

BullySixChicago
06-22-2008, 12:48 PM
I agree with almost everything. It's just that the only people who view Hinrich as a scrub are the Bulls fans on this forum (not all). Most people understand what happened last season and knows that he's better than that. I have very little doubt that he'll have a breakout year next season. But he needs to get the ball to do that. Deng and Gordon can't break fast breaks with pull-up 19 footers.I dont view kirk as a scrub but I also know he about as much a point guard as jerry reinsdorf, kirk is neither a 2 guard either does not have the offensive equipment to be a leader there. One of the big problems with the Bulls was that its players felt that Duhon was a better point than Kirk. Kirk is a decent player but we need a point guard that can break people down and get the pass to people that can score. If you have watched any games Kirk cant break his own mama down. when was the last time you saw kirk take someone to the basket?

robotdevil
06-22-2008, 01:01 PM
I agree with almost everything. It's just that the only people who view Hinrich as a scrub are the Bulls fans on this forum (not all). Most people understand what happened last season and knows that he's better than that. I have very little doubt that he'll have a breakout year next season. But he needs to get the ball to do that. Deng and Gordon can't break fast breaks with pull-up 19 footers.

:mad:

If you only knew how many games I turned off after seeing this happen.

robotdevil
06-22-2008, 01:02 PM
The trashing of kirk is ridiculous.

before last year he was one of the best PGs in the east
now hes the PG equivalent of Jerry Reinsdorf


I dont view kirk as a scrub but I also know he about as much a point guard as jerry reinsdorf, kirk is neither a 2 guard either does not have the offensive equipment to be a leader there. One of the big problems with the Bulls was that its players felt that Duhon was a better point than Kirk. Kirk is a decent player but we need a point guard that can break people down and get the pass to people that can score. If you have watched any games Kirk cant break his own mama down. when was the last time you saw kirk take someone to the basket?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Kirks not the only player who didn't go to the basket. Nobody on this team took it to the basket. A team full of bad jump-shooters is not the fault of one player. Furthermore, Kirk is the only player with a reasonable excuse for not taking it to the hole.

"Hey, I've got to guard guys who are close to half a foot taller than me and 40-50 pounds heavier, which means:
a. I'm dog-tired.
b. I'm in foul trouble.
So charging into the lane isn't going to happen because I don't have the energy, and if I do, I risk getting in even more foul trouble."

Whats BG's excuse? Dengs?(The injury excuse got a little old) Nocionis? Hughes? Duhon? I love the guy, but even Tyrus settles for too many jumpers.

I've made of mention of this before: Rose's defense in college was good, but he excelled when he could guard guys smaller than him and force them into jumpshots...... Shooting guards in the NBA will not be threatened by Derrick Rose's size. How do we keep him out of foul trouble?

No matter who we draft, its time we either give Thabo some solid minutes, or start looking for a SG that can play some defense and slash to the basket.

Derrick_Rose
06-22-2008, 01:12 PM
Look, the bottom line is that these guys are both going to make a difference for the team, obviously. They both have plenty of reasons why we should draft them, and both have a lot to contribute. Beasley is a scorer, something we thought we had in Deng, and I think drafting Beasley would be saying we're pretty much giving up or trading Lu. We've given Hinrich plenty of time to prove himself, and he's had one good year which was two years ago, and the other 4 have been decent. Rose is a stud, and that's that. You don't come across a guy like this that often, with his amazing quickness, speed, leaping ability, and vision. I can't wait to see either one of these men suit up in a Bulls uniform, and it would be very nice if we could get both :)

Turtle55
06-22-2008, 01:33 PM
I feel you on the whole Beasley thing though. Like ive said plenty of times, i will welcome either of them. I mean we were suppose to be drafting JORDAN or LOVE, now we are talking about INSANE ROSE and BEASTLEY Beasley.

IM 52% and 48% towards Rose, but i wouldnt be upset at all if we chose Beasley.

What will be a bummer is that the Heat draft him and get another Championship off of two guys that we should have had!

I'm about the same. Either one will be great. There's no need for people to get hateful just because some people prefer Beasley (not you, others) there have been zero indications from Paxson on who he is picking. All of us who like both players will tell you that. It's people that are sold on one guy that are warping his comments or actions to support their pick.

Turtle55
06-22-2008, 01:37 PM
That's exactly Beasley's problem. He will put up great numbers but he wont be a winner. He wont do WHATEVER IT TAKES TO WIN and Rose will. Beasley's numbers will be better but Charles Barkely had great numbers but never won a title. That is how I see Beasley.

How could you possibly know that? I agree with Barkley comparisons but how could anyone know he won't do anything he can to win?

Chi-Town Finest
06-22-2008, 01:41 PM
Its a win, win, lose, lose situation because if u take Rose u get a star pure point guard who gives the team an identity that it hasnt had for years but you lose a highly skilled scoring and rebound machine. If you choose Beasely you get that scorer we desperately need but we still wont have anybody who can run a team and get the ball in the right postition so that kinda sucks. I say do everything you can to secure both of em, if that means blowing the team up, so be it because Rose & Beasely is a far better building block than anything we have now. From what ive heard Pax hasnt even made a inquiry about another draft pick in the first round, wtf is up with that?

Turtle55
06-22-2008, 01:42 PM
Its a win, win, lose, lose situation because if u take Rose u get a star pure point guard who gives the team an identity that it hasnt had for years but you lose a highly skilled scoring and rebound machine. If you choose Beasely you get that scorer we desperately need but we still wont have anybody who can run a team and get the ball in the right postition so that kinda sucks. I say do everything you can to secure both of em, if that means blowing the team up, so be it because Rose & Beasely is a far better building block than anything we have now. From what ive heard Pax hasnt even made a inquiry about another draft pick in the first round, wtf is up with that?

I like Rose but don't think there's any major post scorers available. If Beasley is the pick then I think Ford makes some sense.

ChitownbullsBG7
06-22-2008, 01:44 PM
No Ford is one injury away from an early retirement. I love the kids heart but no way do i risk that.

Chi-Town Finest
06-22-2008, 02:03 PM
Yeah, I wouldnt trust Ford for health reasons and the Beard has been servicable, he put up all-star numbers when he came over and then there is Brand, Jamison, J.Oneal, all who might be available and Thomas who is still on the team and is said to have had a great off season workout so far.

Turtle55
06-22-2008, 02:05 PM
Yeah, I wouldnt trust Ford for health reasons and the Beard has been servicable, he put up all-star numbers when he came over and then there is Brand, Jamison, J.Oneal, all who might be available and Thomas who is still on the team and is said to have had a great off season workout so far.

I don't think Brand is as available as people in this forum seem to believe, Oneal is just as much of an injury risk as Ford. I like Jamison but he's 31 years old, no room to grow with a rookie point.

Turtle55
06-22-2008, 02:06 PM
I do understand and at some level agree with your concerns about Ford though.

ChitownbullsBG7
06-22-2008, 03:19 PM
The difference between JO and Ford is their contracts. JO is 1 more year and i belive ford has 3.

Turtle55
06-22-2008, 04:59 PM
The difference between JO and Ford is their contracts. JO is 1 more year and i belive ford has 3.

Completely true but Ford's is only 8 million. If we trade for Ford we're doing it for the player, if we trade for Oneal we are doing it for the cap room. I thought Oneal expired in 2010, but either way I make the same point.

ChitownbullsBG7
06-22-2008, 11:19 PM
maybe it is 2 years. Yeah it does, it ends the same as Hughes.

phen0m
06-23-2008, 01:36 AM
35/17/5

irishbullceltic
06-23-2008, 02:22 AM
The Bulls need Beasley more than Rose. Rose may be the better overall player in the future, but Beasley would be pretty much as talented as Rose; and getting Beasley would give the Bulls their low post scorer. He may be 6"8, but he can post up and make atheletic shots. If the bulls get Rose, then they better trade Hinrich for a good power forward; but knowing Paxson he won't make the trades that the Bulls need. If the Bulls get Beasley, then this is the Bulls line up
PG- Hinrich: he will be a solid captain-type point guard.
SG- Hughes: I want Hughes to start so that Gordon will have more rest in the 4th, so Gordon can make the big shots. Gordon takes too many shots when he plays a lot of minutes; but when he plays the right amount, he can be a great role player
SF- Deng: Going to be a great SF. Not superstar great, but close.
PF- Beasley: Finaly get the Bulls what they are looking for, which will make Hinrich's job a lot easier
C- Noah: solid center. Not that great, but gets the boards and the defensive plays.

The Bulls should get Beasley instead of Rose. Otherwise things would be too hard to fix for Paxson.

abe_froman
06-23-2008, 02:29 AM
The Bulls need Beasley more than Rose. Rose may be the better overall player in the future, but Beasley would be pretty much as talented as Rose; and getting Beasley would give the Bulls their low post scorer. He may be 6"8, but he can post up and make atheletic shots. If the bulls get Rose, then they better trade Hinrich for a good power forward; but knowing Paxson he won't make the trades that the Bulls need. If the Bulls get Beasley, then this is the Bulls line up
PG- Hinrich: he will be a solid captain-type point guard.
SG- Hughes: I want Hughes to start so that Gordon will have more rest in the 4th, so Gordon can make the big shots. Gordon takes too many shots when he plays a lot of minutes; but when he plays the right amount, he can be a great role player
SF- Deng: Going to be a great SF. Not superstar great, but close.
PF- Beasley: Finaly get the Bulls what they are looking for, which will make Hinrich's job a lot easier
C- Noah: solid center. Not that great, but gets the boards and the defensive plays.

The Bulls should get Beasley instead of Rose. Otherwise things would be too hard to fix for Paxson.

so you want the lesser player according to you:confused:

irishbullceltic
06-23-2008, 02:30 AM
I totally agree with you. I mentioned doing that like a month ago, and I heard Kendall Gill mention that to Paxson a week ago. Like what Kendall says, you probably have to trade three guys on the bulls for the 2nd pick in the draft. Maybe the Bulls could give up Tyrus, Kirk, and Hughes for the pick. Then the Bulls would get the pick and some scrubs who can match up with the Bulls salaries.

toovey107
06-23-2008, 02:32 AM
i believe beasley will be a great scorer but i def. see him as a SF to begin his career at least.
im not sure hes going to be able to score at will in the post like he did in college and i know he will have struggles guarding multiple PF in the east


i think rose has to be the pick

irishbullceltic
06-23-2008, 02:37 AM
so you want the lesser player according to you:confused:


Rose may be better, but Beasley will make the Bulls better; unless Paxson gets Rose and trades Hinrich for a good power forward

ChitownbullsBG7
06-23-2008, 08:28 AM
Pf an Sf were our 2 best positions last year. We dont need that position. Gooden put uo allstar numbers and TT is said to be coming along great. Deng and Noc are a great Sf duo.

We need more efficient point guards. Pg was our weakest position. It just so happen that the top 2 guys in this draft play the point and forward positions. Many scouts have said they think Rose has a better upside and is a LEADER. Hell they said Riley might not want him because he will only be good under certain circumstances.

Rose needs to be our pick. Not saying i will be mad if we got Beasley. Look at it this way, if we go the Beasley route, we dont really have any trade assets. We have 1 guard that can be traded, Gooden, and maybe Noc. No way does that land us a good point.

jtlive2006
06-23-2008, 10:28 AM
Pf an Sf were our 2 best positions last year. We dont need that position. Gooden put uo allstar numbers and TT is said to be coming along great. Deng and Noc are a great Sf duo.

We need more efficient point guards. Pg was our weakest position. It just so happen that the top 2 guys in this draft play the point and forward positions. Many scouts have said they think Rose has a better upside and is a LEADER. Hell they said Riley might not want him because he will only be good under certain circumstances.

Rose needs to be our pick. Not saying i will be mad if we got Beasley. Look at it this way, if we go the Beasley route, we dont really have any trade assets. We have 1 guard that can be traded, Gooden, and maybe Noc. No way does that land us a good point.

EXACTLY

irishbullceltic
07-13-2008, 05:27 AM
Pf an Sf were our 2 best positions last year. We dont need that position. Gooden put uo allstar numbers and TT is said to be coming along great. Deng and Noc are a great Sf duo.

We need more efficient point guards. Pg was our weakest position. It just so happen that the top 2 guys in this draft play the point and forward positions. Many scouts have said they think Rose has a better upside and is a LEADER. Hell they said Riley might not want him because he will only be good under certain circumstances.

Rose needs to be our pick. Not saying i will be mad if we got Beasley. Look at it this way, if we go the Beasley route, we dont really have any trade assets. We have 1 guard that can be traded, Gooden, and maybe Noc. No way does that land us a good point.


I usually agree with what you have to say, but I not sure that I can agree with you in this decession. TT is not the answer to the PF position. The Bull's staff said that TT should be really good last season. He didn't look that great to me last season. Every year is suppose to be the year for TT, but it never happens. Gooden is a solid bench player, but not that great of a PF.

Without Rose, I think that the pg position still isn't the weakest position. If we didn't get Rose, Then we would have a good point who just had an off season, Hinrich, and we would of signed a free agent point guard who can play decent when Hinrich needs to sit on the bench. That's all we need for the pg position.

At first I thought getting Rose for Beasley wasn't that big of a deal, but now I'm getting a little nervous. I thought paxson was going to be able to make a move to get a good PF; but it seems like he doesn't want to because he thinks that TT is going to be great, just like all the other years.

If TT isn't going to be good like the Bulls are saying that he is, we are in big trouble.

irishbullceltic
07-13-2008, 05:29 AM
I dont think kirk would cut it as a 2 guard,he's a point guard he just had a bad season,heck just a couple of years ago he was part of the national team now people view him as a scrub of a point guard I think hinrich would do well enough for us to stay at that position beasley is a bigger need if there aren't any moves made which we can't depend on,hinirich plays his postion better than our bigs play there position that is why i believe that beasley is needed more because there were a few of the bulls players that had a bad season last year but i believe that hinrich will be the one that has a lot to prove come next year.


You know what you are talking about!

irishbullceltic
07-13-2008, 05:43 AM
I said "I usually agree with what you have to say, but I not sure that I can agree with you in this decession," because I thought that Chitownsfinest made the comment. That's the guy who knows what he is talking about.