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blams
06-20-2008, 01:20 AM
Marmol or Linebrink?

its not even close really.

k's dont say if a pitcher is good, AT ALL.

however, earned runs are a great way to tell.

overall linebrinks stats are MUCH better, and he has better control.

it is hilarious how 80 percent of people will likely still take marmol.

THIS IS STILL MY OPINION BEFORE LAST NIGHTS GAMES.

redwhitenblue
06-20-2008, 01:24 AM
Marmol or Linebrink?

its not even close really.

k's dont say if a pitcher is good, AT ALL.

however, earned runs are a great way to tell.

overall linebrinks stats are MUCH better, and he has better control.

it is hilarious how 80 percent of people will likely still take marmol.

THIS IS STILL MY OPINION BEFORE LAST NIGHTS GAMES.
Further proof, we need a ban for stupidity


K's don't matter, but relievers ERA does:pity:

brandonalama refuses to learn the basics of baseball

I'd also like to point out the slight bait in the poll, but since there's no way to report it I'll do it here




Can we also ban for bringing up threads that already exist?

Your Name Here
06-20-2008, 01:33 AM
k's dont say if a pitcher is good, AT ALL.

So the ability to make hitters miss the ball isn't a factor in deciding if a pitcher is good?

That's an interesting way too look at things, I guess.

Boozerguy47
06-20-2008, 01:40 AM
I love Brandon Morrow for my crappy Mariners (he is closing now w/ Putz on the DL). Past 9 innings he has given up this...

-1 walk
-1 hit
-0 runs
-15 strikeouts

For the year his ERA is about 0.85...

redwhitenblue
06-20-2008, 01:43 AM
I love Brandon Morrow for my crappy Mariners (he is closing now w/ Putz on the DL). Past 9 innings he has given up this...

-1 walk
-1 hit
-0 runs
-15 strikeouts

For the year his ERA is about 0.85...
What, brandonalama hasn't heard of anything outside of Chicago, only Chicago teams in this, Marmol, Linebrink, Jenks or Wood






All I've heard is good about Morrow, I may look deeper into his history soon

blams
06-20-2008, 01:50 AM
What, brandonalama hasn't heard of anything outside of Chicago, only Chicago teams in this, Marmol, Linebrink, Jenks or Wood






All I've heard is good about Morrow, I may look deeper into his history soon

i actually know of pretty much everyone in the mlb, i was just too lazy

redwhitenblue
06-20-2008, 01:51 AM
i actually know of pretty much everyone in the mlb, i was just too lazy.

stop being a douche u ****ing "tattle tale"

did i hurt your feelings

go home and die u dirtbag.
If you knew of everyone in the MLB, then you wouldn't think O-Cab is an allstar...and you would list a few more great set up men outside of Chicago

blams
06-20-2008, 01:54 AM
If you knew of everyone in the MLB, then you wouldn't think O-Cab is an allstar...and you would list a few more great set up men outside of Chicago

just so u know im not a jerk, i just got pissed for a second there.

ocab isnt an allstar, but he certainly is above average at the least.

he will likely end up near 300, and is a gold glover still.

no chance he sucks.

redwhitenblue
06-20-2008, 01:55 AM
just so u know im not a jerk, i just got pissed for a second there.

ocab isnt an allstar, but he certainly is above average at the least.

he will likely end up near 300, and is a gold glover still.

no chance he sucks.
He sucks, and sucks hard

He's not above average, his 86 OPS+ shows that

His glove is good, I'm not sure it's GG and that doesn't make him above average overall with his horrible hitting

blams
06-20-2008, 01:56 AM
If you knew of everyone in the MLB, then you wouldn't think O-Cab is an allstar...and you would list a few more great set up men outside of Chicago

can u edit ur quote so everyone doesnt see how i overreacted like a little girl?

thanks.

:o

JDIsMyGod23
06-20-2008, 02:17 AM
We had this thread, what? Like 2 weeks ago. Interesting timing after Marmol's first blow-up.

CaptainCool79
06-20-2008, 02:26 AM
I personally would take marmol but i really like the guy. To me your setup guy and closer shouldnt even get the ball in play (dont take it literally). I think those two guys should consistently get K's.

brandonwarne52
06-20-2008, 02:32 AM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/n/neshepa01.shtml

iam brett favre
06-20-2008, 02:37 AM
Other: Veras. (when he becomes one)

PhillyUD26
06-20-2008, 02:51 AM
can u edit ur quote so everyone doesnt see how i overreacted like a little girl?

thanks.

:o

WTF???

You are such a girl :pity:

LA412
06-20-2008, 03:20 AM
okajima

giantspwn
06-20-2008, 03:27 AM
Keichi Yabu :D

belliard is god
06-20-2008, 07:39 AM
pat neshek

deeznutz
06-20-2008, 10:09 AM
I've always liked watching Scot Shields pitch despite being a Yanks fan and him always shutting us down out of the pen. When he's on, he's absolutely filthy.

BrianWestKins
06-20-2008, 01:11 PM
Dan Wheeler has been dominant this year.

yaowowrocket11
06-20-2008, 01:14 PM
I'll take Brandon Morrow as well.

hizpcstr
06-20-2008, 01:14 PM
I think the thread title should be changed to: Who is the better set up man Marmol or Linebrink?

blams
06-20-2008, 01:34 PM
WTF???

You are such a girl :pity:

i was joking/jk

go sox

KGJ24
06-20-2008, 01:42 PM
I like the veras comment, second of all Rafael Betancourt is by far the best set-up man baseball has to offer,
Honorable Mention:
Scott Shields, Marmol, Morrow, Veras, Mike Gonzalez, and Tom Gordon

MaZin420
06-20-2008, 01:46 PM
I like the veras comment, second of all Rafael Betancourt is by far the best set-up man baseball has to offer,
Honorable Mention:
Scott Shields, Marmol, Morrow, Veras, Mike Gonzalez, and Tom Gordon

How you figure that, by his stellar 6.12 era?

brandonwarne52
06-20-2008, 01:48 PM
I like the veras comment, second of all Rafael Betancourt is by far the best set-up man baseball has to offer,
Honorable Mention:
Scott Shields, Marmol, Morrow, Veras, Mike Gonzalez, and Tom Gordon

In what year?

Tom Gordon is terrible, too. Mike Gonzalez has thrown a total of 18 innings the last 2 seasons.

Wrigleyboy25
06-20-2008, 05:26 PM
Well, Cubs showed up for Marmol's side today beating Linebrink.

redwhitenblue
06-20-2008, 05:28 PM
Well, Cubs showed up for Marmol's side today beating Linebrink.
Was it 1 pitch, 1 HR, 1 L

Your Name Here
06-20-2008, 05:50 PM
Was it 1 pitch, 1 HR, 1 L

With an ERA and WHIP of http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1294/d245777abca64ece2d5d7cavc0.png.

Kinsm
06-20-2008, 05:54 PM
Jared Burton is turning into one of the better setup men in the league, but not yet.

My vote's for Shields even though Marmol & Linebrink are having better years. Would have voted for Joba if he hadn't been moved to SP, Downs/Neshek/Okajima/Broxton/Bell have been or are all good too.

D-Amazins
06-20-2008, 08:36 PM
Scot Shields is the best SU man and has been for the past few years.

nygiants242
06-20-2008, 08:46 PM
^WTF? how is he better than marmol this year

CarniifeX
06-20-2008, 11:33 PM
I like how there are only 3 options when it says "Best setup man in MLB". I am pretty sure there are 30 teams in baseball, not 2 setup men. If you want to compare those 2, make a different comparison. Nice poll champ.

CarniifeX
06-20-2008, 11:38 PM
^WTF? how is he better than marmol this year

Because Scot Shields has had only 4 outings in which he has given up a run, compared to Marmol's 8. Not that other stats mean anything, but this is not just because I am an Angels fan, but Shields has been the most reliable Setup Men in MLB the past few years.

CarniifeX
06-20-2008, 11:45 PM
Was it 1 pitch, 1 HR, 1 L

Something like that......then a "God dammit!"

CHC/LAL Fan
06-21-2008, 12:17 AM
Marmol!!!

Chicago657
06-21-2008, 03:12 AM
Until someone shows me a better stat for judging relievers (some sabermetric BP created or something, is VORP for pitchers good?) I will use WHIP.
Whip before last appearance
Marmol- .72
Linebrink- .86
Marmols is a hell of a lot better. Marmol wasn't himself his last appearance and neither was Linebrink so I took them out. If anyone wants to *****, post last appearance, Marmol whip=.80 and Linebrink=.90

Marmols ability to come in with no outs and and bases loaded and then completely shut them down is so valuable. He bridges from the starter to the close with ease.

Marmol also has close to 20 IP on Linebrink. Until Marmol gets injured from overuse, he is much more valueable since he can use that .80 whip a lot more often.

ny sucks
06-21-2008, 03:18 AM
I wanna be a homer and say okajima, but i can't even say that. I'd have to say "other" Sheilds, like mentioned has been the best for a time now, marmol is probably second.

redwhitenblue
06-21-2008, 03:21 AM
Shields is underrated, not only is he a solid WHIP/K/ERA setup man, he had a 4 year stretch where he led all relievers in W's...another reason I picked him up for my fantasy team a few years ago:)

Yendil
06-21-2008, 03:51 AM
i like morrow, 20 IPs, 2 ER's both from a HR, 30 k's, 7 walks, i would take him and his 100mph fastball over marmol and linebrink. But i also like shields. so ummm shields and morrow are my votes.

crowdawg239
06-21-2008, 09:34 AM
I'd have to give a tie.

To Latroy Hawkins and Kyle Farnsworth.

DamnGoat
06-21-2008, 12:59 PM
If you're going to be a homer then that's fine, name your thread "Who's the better setup many b/t Marmol and Linebrink?"

But if it's "Best setup man in MLB..." then you better mention guys like Dan Wheeler, Taylor Buchholz, Scot Shields, Heath Bell, Brandon Morrow and others.

Ramon Nivar
06-21-2008, 01:00 PM
Taylor Buchholz.

brandonwarne52
06-21-2008, 04:12 PM
Taylor Buchholz? Are you kidding me?

L-MiLLZ44
06-21-2008, 04:30 PM
i'd say scott sheilds, marmol is filthy also

I thought Jonathan Broxton was going to have a huge year but he has had some hiccups this year

Cubsfan1433
06-21-2008, 06:04 PM
If its between marmol and linebrink,

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230659

I smell my bat
06-21-2008, 11:58 PM
No. Neshek deserves it, too bad he got injured.

goldglove212
06-22-2008, 07:36 PM
I'd have to give a tie.

To Latroy Hawkins and Kyle Farnsworth.

your crazy its heilman/timlin :eyebrow:

Boozerguy47
07-02-2008, 05:50 PM
I love Brandon Morrow. Another inning pitched, another three strike-outs.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8002

Nothing like a WHIP at 0.86, a batting average against him of .149, an ERA of 0.74 and averaging 13 Ks per 9 innings.

Yankees213
07-02-2008, 06:04 PM
Marmol or Linebrink?

its not even close really.

k's dont say if a pitcher is good, AT ALL.

however, earned runs are a great way to tell.

overall linebrinks stats are MUCH better, and he has better control.

it is hilarious how 80 percent of people will likely still take marmol.

THIS IS STILL MY OPINION BEFORE LAST NIGHTS GAMES.

I don't think stats are a great way to judge relievers, especially non-closers. You sorta have to watch them everyday to know just how good or bad they are in my opinion.

Cub_StuckinSTL
07-02-2008, 06:50 PM
I don't think stats are a great way to judge relievers, especially non-closers. You sorta have to watch them everyday to know just how good or bad they are in my opinion.

Eh check WHIP, K/9, K:BB ratios is what I look at. I wish I knew a place to find % of inherited runners left on but I guess Holds is the closest you get to that.

Malone for Pres
07-02-2008, 07:14 PM
Eh check WHIP, K/9, K:BB ratios is what I look at. I wish I knew a place to find % of inherited runners left on but I guess Holds is the closest you get to that.

It's in the ESPN stat log.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=28486

That's for Marmol. Under the second box of Misc. Pitching it's IR (Inherited Runners) and IS (Inherited Runners Scored).

Marmol's IS% as of 7/02: 12.5%

Linebrink's : 20%

Percentages are a little misleading though, as Marmol has had many more inherited runners than Linebrick.

blams
07-02-2008, 07:18 PM
ha i made the poll too biased, although i think it is clear now that linebrink is better than marmol.

the_lazy_man
07-02-2008, 07:29 PM
What about scott downs? He may of given up that awful home run to sexson yesterday, but 26 innings without an earned run should garner some respect to being argubly the best set up man in the majors well at least one of them

blams
07-02-2008, 07:40 PM
What about scott downs? He may of given up that awful home run to sexson yesterday, but 26 innings without an earned run should garner some respect to being argubly the best set up man in the majors well at least one of them

putting only 2 players (from chicago nonetheless) was a big mistake. lol.

redwhitenblue
07-02-2008, 07:52 PM
ha i made the poll too biased, although i think it is clear now that linebrink is better than marmol.
How do you figure? (besides your overwhelming ignorance and bias)

As just shown
Marmol IR 24, IRS 3 (12.5% scored), .87 WHIP, 66 K, 21 BB, 47 IP, 21 holds
Linebrink IR 10 IRS 2 (20% scored), .79 WHIP, 29 K, 6 BB, 34 IP, 19 holds

Marmol just had a bad week about 1 week ago-so I'm sure you're just loving that, but to think Linebrink won't have a bad week is ignoring his entire history...even with Marmol's bad week he's better at stranding runners and can get the K much much easier...I'd call it a push as is (mostly because Linebrink is scarcely used compared to Marmol)

The A Team
07-02-2008, 10:34 PM
Way to offer 2 options...

dodgers07champs
07-02-2008, 11:04 PM
Morrow is better than both.

R. Johnson#3
07-02-2008, 11:47 PM
What about scott downs? He may of given up that awful home run to sexson yesterday, but 26 innings without an earned run should garner some respect to being argubly the best set up man in the majors well at least one of them

:clap:

Scott Downs didn't allow a run for all of May and June. As said before, he went 26 innings without giving up a run. Also, in those 26 innings he gave up 14 hits and 8 walks. He also had 21 strikeouts.

Downs may be impressive but Brandon Morrow is the winner here. Scott Downs is a strong candidate for second though.

Boozerguy47
07-03-2008, 01:06 AM
Morrow is better than both.

:clap::clap: Morrow is great. Picked up his 5th save in 5 chances since JJ Putz has been hurt. Let's lower that ERA and batting average against him.

FriarFanatic
07-03-2008, 01:36 AM
i'll probly get called a homer for this but i think that heath bell is a very good set up man for my padres. he's solid day in and day out i mean when we actually have a lead he keeps it....then hoffy blows it

but seriously i think he is a great set up man

blams
07-03-2008, 01:56 AM
How do you figure? (besides your overwhelming ignorance and bias)

As just shown
Marmol IR 24, IRS 3 (12.5% scored), .87 WHIP, 66 K, 21 BB, 47 IP, 21 holds
Linebrink IR 10 IRS 2 (20% scored), .79 WHIP, 29 K, 6 BB, 34 IP, 19 holds

Marmol just had a bad week about 1 week ago-so I'm sure you're just loving that, but to think Linebrink won't have a bad week is ignoring his entire history...even with Marmol's bad week he's better at stranding runners and can get the K much much easier...I'd call it a push as is (mostly because Linebrink is scarcely used compared to Marmol)

push, fair enough

srhorioles
07-03-2008, 11:16 AM
I love how no one has mentioned jim johnson...i know im an oriole fan and he may not be the best be is definitely in the mix...

46.1 IP 6ER 1.17 ERA .95 WHIP

AlexGordon4
07-03-2008, 11:49 AM
I think that neshek is the best setup man befor he got hurt this year

BRADY4MVP
07-03-2008, 12:18 PM
with lefties obv. being in great demand, what about that Thornton guy from the White Sox. I saw a game this weekend where he came in throwing mid to high 90s and was blowing everyone away. I dont know his stats exactly, but from what I saw that guy is legit......

I figured I would atick with the all chicago themed poll

Ramon Nivar
07-03-2008, 12:22 PM
Taylor Buchholz? Are you kidding me?

.756 WHIP, 338 ERA+, 15 Holds

No, I am no kidding you.

bartlett2266
07-03-2008, 12:35 PM
Scott Downs isnt to bad either very underrated

IndiansFan337
07-03-2008, 12:49 PM
There are a few elite SU men & then the rest change from year to year.

Rafael Betancourt was arguably the best SU man in MLB last year, now he is terrible & his ERA is above 6(maybe even 7).

Guys that have done it for a long time are the best, IMO. Guys like Linebrink, Shields, etc.

flips333
07-03-2008, 01:03 PM
I have to agree that doing it for a long time is impressive. Cause a guy can have a good year and be the best in the league for a year... doesn't mean they will the following year. So Linebrink and Shields are two guys who are long term set up guys.

There is a problem with this line of thinking is that the best set up guys become closers. So if someone is a long term set up guy it's because he doesn't have the dominant stuff necessary to close.

Swish-Cab-Ob
07-03-2008, 02:02 PM
This year it is Linebrink

McJoe
07-03-2008, 02:14 PM
i dont understand why it is marmol and linebrink

this is the biggest homer/bait poll ive ever seen and just the site of it makes me believe there should be an infraction for SURE for this

its neither...as brandonalama said 'im too lazy' when he talked about his poll so i will also say that im too lazy to bother to look up the fact that 48 people said other and Linebrink has 10 votes

THE_FLASH_21
07-03-2008, 02:23 PM
Dan Wheeler has been dominant this year.

That's my pick as well.... Why did Houston give him up??? They're STUPID!!!

brandonwarne52
07-03-2008, 02:56 PM
.756 WHIP, 338 ERA+, 15 Holds

No, I am no kidding you.

Maybe he should do it for more than 40 innings, first?

Or would we call Dennys Reyes the best MR in 2006?

MrBloop
07-03-2008, 03:18 PM
Mariano will go down as the greatest set up man converted to closer...

food 4 thought.

MrBloop
07-03-2008, 03:19 PM
Well its not Okajima, hahaha

brandonwarne52
07-03-2008, 03:20 PM
Mariano will go down as the greatest set up man converted to closer...

food 4 thought.

He set up for one year to Wetteland. Wow.

cubs92
07-03-2008, 04:40 PM
the last few outings have been rough for him, but marmol was absolutely dominant before then and will probably continue to be again

FriarFanatic
07-03-2008, 06:42 PM
his stuff is phenomenal

JHG722
07-04-2008, 01:25 PM
Morrow is absolutely filthy. If JJ the Putz becomes closer again, Morrow would probably be the best overall set-up man in baseball.

Oh, and gotta throw in some love for Chad the Durbinator 1.58 ERA nearly 2:1 K/BB ratio. 8 ER in 45 2/3 innings :nod:

Tragedy
07-04-2008, 03:51 PM
Rafael Betancourt was arguably the best SU man in MLB last year, now he is terrible & his ERA is above 6(maybe even 7).
Cough Okajima cough.


Mariano will go down as the greatest set up man converted to closer...
LOL. Come on now. What about Joba? He was fantastic for two months last year, and is now a starter. Should he be in the discussion? Just really silly.

flips333
07-12-2008, 10:50 AM
Sometimes career set up men just don't have the stuff to be closers. He's got an era of 9.00 since being made the closer.

Twitchy
07-12-2008, 11:32 AM
Scott Downs has been pretty good this year - 1.69 ERA, 241 ERA+. Might not be the best but he's one of the top lefty SU men in the game and he deserves some recognition.

rriders9
07-13-2008, 12:20 AM
Gotta go with Neshek

Kinsm
07-13-2008, 02:01 AM
someone please close this thread, it's been up for ever.

brandonwarne52
07-13-2008, 02:49 AM
Stop posting in it, then.