PDA

View Full Version : New Rules of the Election 2008 Forum



DenButsu
05-21-2008, 02:22 AM
This Election 2008 Forum has gone through some better cycles and some worse cycles, but especially in the past month or so the worse ones have been really, really bad.

This is going to change, starting right now.

So please take notice.

THE NEW RULES OF THE ELECTION 2008 FORUM

1. Moderation will be stricter in here than in the rest of PSD

---What does this mean specifically? We reserve the right to edit, delete and close threads and posts as we see fit. Period. Is this censorship? Yes. Am I happy about this? No. But it's reached a point where it's necessary. Some examples of things that could get deleted or edited:
"All Republicans are _________________s."
"All Democrats are _________________s."
"All atheists are _________________s."
"All Christians are _________________s."
...I think you get the drift. Blanket generalized insults of groups of people that could (and likely do) include people who post here will not be permitted.
For example.

2. All the rules of PSD still apply as well

---What does this mean specifically? Don't insult other posters, attack them, bait, flame, troll, etc. Don't engage in disruptive behavior. Regarding comments like the examples given above that may not in and of themselves "technically" break any normal PSD rules, well, stuff like that won't automatically get you infractions/bans. If it's deemed unacceptable for this forum, and edited/deleted/etc., you'll be advised as to why, and warned not to do it again. So no big surprises are going to land on your head. But after that, if you do it again, infractions/bans are on the table as options.

3. You're on Crossfire

---What does THAT mean?!? Okay, well of course you're not really on TV. But think of it as if you were on CNN. You're Paul Begala. You're Tucker Carlson. Think about how those talking heads on TV constantly battle it out every day without resorting to name calling (you are an idiot, ******, moron, etc.) or debasing the opinion of the other (that is stupid, idiotic, ********, etc.), but actually making their cases based on the ISSUES and the POINTS they are debating. And think about the kinds of things they might say that would cause 100,000 angry e-mails to be sent to CNN or cause them to get fired. Those are the same kinds of things that will get you infractions and bans.

4. Respect rules supreme in the Election 2008 Forum

---People type things in forums they'd never say face to face to other people. We expect everyone here to communicate with each other as if we were all sitting in the same room at the same table having a calm, respectable, reasonable conversation in reasonable tones of voice. There's a guy in the Nuggets forum who really doesn't like Obama. I'm an Obama supporter. The important thing is that we're both Nuggets fans. So let's all try to keep these things in perspective.

------------------------



Just so it's clear, this is something that Wrigley (who is conservative) and I (who am liberal) have consulted together on, and agree on. So this is a PSD thing, not a political thing, and as such it's not about taking any sides. It's only about maintaining a level of discourse in here that requires all posters to be respectful of each other and each other's beliefs, no matter how strongly you disagree with them. It is time for us to hold ourselves to a higher standard.

And let me just say that this includes me (and the other mods) as well. I have not been perfect about these things up to this point. But from now on I will certainly try to be as close to that as I can.


Thanks in advance for trying to do the same. :clap:

DenButsu
05-21-2008, 01:19 PM
Tomorrow (later today for most of you) I'm going through the currently active threads and cleaning house.

A lot of you are still posting crap you shouldn't be.

This is your chance, right now, to go back and edit your own posts before I come through with the mop. So read the above post again and take it to heart.

Thank you.

DenButsu
05-21-2008, 09:23 PM
Just to be clear about this (especially since I got a pm asking me about it):

I'm sorry, but I did NOT mean you have to go back through all your posts you ever made here, or even a full week of them or anything.

When I said "active threads" I should have been more specific and said "active threads and the recent posts in them".


Don't worry, everyone. The point of this is not to crack heads. Things are getting stricter in here now, but part of the reason I wanted you guys to edit your own (RECENT - say last day or two) posts is that I wanted to see where your own understanding of things is at compared to ours (the mods'), and take some time to get the differences between the two clarified.

So don't expect infractions/bans for things you said 2 days or a week ago or anything. What you can probably expect is that posts will get edited and that you could get a pm or two telling you which posts they were and why they were edited.

The point here is not to do anything unfair to all the posters here, and I'll promise to do my best to avoid doing that.

The point IS:

There are a lot of "kids" of all ages here (some apparently even older than me :rolleyes: ) at PSD, which is totally fine. And there are lots of places here for kids to play, like the games forum, the GD forum and, really, the sports forums as well. But the Election 2008 Forum is going to be the "Grown Ups Table" from here on out, and if you want to sit here, you're going to be expected to behave like an adult. And the first step in making this happen is to clarify exactly what this means. And the best way to do that is by way of illustrating examples to everyone of what ISN'T appropriate.

So look at what you've written recently, think about whether your comments are actually cool, respectful and basically in accordance with the guidelines I laid out above - or not. And you think they're not, fix them. And then we can clarify the gaps between our expectations and your understandings, and hopefully from there on out we can get this forum going in a better, more mature, more quality direction without too much of a hassle.


Please feel free to ask if you have any questions. I'll open this up for a while so you can do that.

DenButsu
05-22-2008, 10:51 AM
Okay, everyone, first of all thank you to all of you who went back through and edited your own posts. I saw that a lot of you did, and I appreciate it. Please just try to do real-time editing of your posting in a similar fashion. It will make your life, the mods' lives, and this forum as a whole run much more smoothly.

Okay, now a bunch of you are about to get pms regarding the cleanup I just did editing a whole lot of posts.

No infractions were given for any of it, including things like fairly personal insults that you would usually get infractions for.

Why?

I want there to be a new start here, and to do that just wipe the slate clean, explaning what isn't cutting it so it's all nice and clear. Then, from here on out, everybody can be absolutely sure of what lines to avoid crossing.

The pms I send contain the original quoted post (unedited) and below it, a link to the edited post. Please compare what is there now to what was originally written to see what the problem was. Any questions, please pm me or ask here in this thread.


One thing I did in cleaning up was edit profanity. What was there was not "that bad", and normally would not get you into trouble. But here in the election forum, things are already on enough of an edge without throwing fuel on any flames. So please avoid using profanity in spite of the fact that the filter is there. Be your own filter. It will help to keep the discussions level headed and reasonable.


Okay, in addition to the profanity, here are some of the things I deleted, and why they're not okay:

1.
"Most Republicans/Obama supporters/McCain supporters/Democrats/Christians/Immigrants/Muslims...
...think _________."
...are _________s."
...do/don't ____________."

Problem: BLANKET GENERALIZED INSULTS/SMEARS/DISTORTIONS/ACCUSATIONS


2.
One-liner wise-crack comments that make no point.

Problem: BAITING AND INSULTING FOR NO REASON OTHER THAN SPITE
If you don't have a legit point to make, don't post.


3.
Dismissing others' posts as "stupid", "bull****", "********", etc.

Problem: BASICALY PERSONAL INSULTS VIA INSULTING THE POST RATHER THAN THE POSTER
If you disagree, do it politely and respectfully and explain why.
If you think another person's post is false or factually inaccurate (intentionally or not), don't call them a liar or call it BS. Explain - CALMLY - why you believe it to be untrue, and BACK IT UP.


Pretty basic stuff here, folks.

As Judge Reinhold said in Fast Times at Ridgemont High:


Learn it, know it, Live it.

DenButsu
05-31-2008, 10:25 AM
Last weekend I deleted a thread titled "Republicans" that was someone from the left baiting/insulting the right.

Just now I deleted another thread ("best reason to vote for McCain") that was doing the exact same thing but posted by someone from the right baiting/insulting the left.

This type of behavior will automatically result in infractions and, if repeated, bans. So if you have any doubts or questions about where the lines are drawn, it's time for you to go to the top of this thread and read the whole thing.

Also, insults have started becoming more frequent again.

I've given a few "infraction warnings" (= not full infractions) for these, but that's over. If I see any more insulting posts you WILL get an infraction or ban.


If people can't post here respectfully and as adults, then there's absolutely no point in allowing this forum to go on existing, as it will be just a constant degeneration into flame wars.

FanofCubs
05-31-2008, 10:29 AM
Put the real rule up.

you can only post anti conservative anti McCain things.

Dare say anything about Obama or liberals it will be deleted.

I think we need to have 2 mods on here. One conservative and one liberal.

DenButsu
05-31-2008, 10:35 AM
Put the real rule up.

you can only post anti conservative anti McCain things.

Dare say anything about Obama or liberals it will be deleted.

I think we need to have 2 mods on here. One conservative and one liberal.

We do have a conservative mod in here. And he's my "boss" so to speak. Pretty much the head admin of the site. And if he feels I was wrong in assessing your post as inflammatory and disruptive, then he'll back you up.

Look down the forum, though, and you'll see a thread called "Republicans" that I deleted because it was baiting Republicans.

And you'll see other threads that have been heavily edited and/or closed where the edits and closings were done on people posting from the left.


Hell, I'm not perfect and I don't claim to be. But creating inflammatory threads with angry tones will get you infractions and bans, regardless of where you are on the political spectrum, something that is backed up by the facts of who has received infractions and bans in here, both liberals and conservatives alike.

Doc Fluty
06-19-2008, 03:15 PM
Some examples of things that could get deleted or edited:
"All Republicans are _________________s."
"All Democrats are _________________s."
"All atheists are _________________s."
"All Christians are _________________s."
...I think you get the drift. Blanket generalized insults of groups of people that could (and likely do) include people who post here will not be permitted.

Hippies are still ok to rag on right?

I mean no one cares what an lesbian and old guys with pony tails thinks right?

lol.. ok i am just kidding... kinda

ChiTownSports
06-19-2008, 04:47 PM
Hippies are still ok to rag on right?

I mean no one cares what an lesbian and old guys with pony tails thinks right?

lol.. ok i am just kidding... kinda

:pity:

I think we SHOULD ban all anti-hippy statements. :up:

DenButsu
06-19-2008, 07:54 PM
Hippies are still ok to rag on right?

I mean no one cares what an lesbian and old guys with pony tails thinks right?

lol.. ok i am just kidding... kinda

Hippies will go gatecrasher on you and retaliate.


Just kidding... kinda.


(You can ask your hippie co-workers to explain the "gatecrasher" reference to you). :cool:

DenButsu
06-21-2008, 08:31 AM
About that recent thread that got closed:

Thanks to all of you who pointed out the rules and didn't take the bait. I appreciate it. And just a reminder, please report posts/threads like that. There will always be stretches of time when no mods are in here watching this forum, but there aren't too many times when no mods at all are around to catch reported posts.

DenButsu
07-18-2008, 05:53 AM
Does anybody see a pattern emerging on the front page of the Election Center 2008 forum?

For current and future reference: It looks like this. (http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5190/electionforumze0.png)


If you have any questions about why this is happening, you need to do no more than go back to the top post of this thread and read through it. It's all clear.


We seem to go in these cycles where people "get it" for a while, and things are mostly cool, but then things get worse again. Unfortunately, we're at one of those points where things are getting worse again.


From right now forward I and the other mods here are going to be getting stricter again about enforcing the rules and standards of this forum so we can get it back on a more positive track. So play nice, everybody, and don't get yourselves into trouble.

Thank you - D

Shieldsz
07-24-2008, 01:23 AM
Denbutsu is the mayne :cheer:

YOU MOD THIS FORUM.. now you know why you have a fanclub :D

DenButsu
07-24-2008, 05:20 AM
Denbutsu is the mayne :cheer:

YOU MOD THIS FORUM.. now you know why you have a fanclub :D

:laugh2: Thanks .... but all those guys are NBA guys, not political junkie types. I'm pretty sure they just all love reading really, really, really long posts about why Melo isn't as bad as everybody thinks he is.

DenButsu
09-28-2008, 10:10 PM
My apologies if anybody was offended/angry/upset/shocked/confused/etc. about my massive thread merging yesterday.

I take full blame/responsibility/credit/accountability for this action.

I alone chose to do it, without consulting any other mods. So if you have a problem with it, then your problem is with me and not any of the other mods here. It was strictly a unilateral action on my part.

Why?

Hard to explain without getting into some stuff that wouldn't be appropriate for me to share here (if other parties involved wish to discuss it, they're welcome to, but I'm not going to drag anybody else into what really was ultimately my own action).


In very simplistic terms, think of the last month in here as a political drinking binge. A rampant bar hopping from the Democratic Convention to the Palin pick to the Republican Convention to the negative advertising battles to the economic crisis to the pre-debate drama to the debate itself... then after passing out face down on the bar, the forgotten taxi ride home.

And then yesterday I woke up feeling sick - call it a political hangover, if you will. And if you've ever had a really nasty hangover, then you probably know that sometimes the only way that you're gonna get to feeling better is if you purge the toxins from the night before. So that's what I did. I made the election forum stick its finger down its throat, so that it could make a new start.


I know this explanation will not be satisfactory for most of you, and I'm sorry about that. But please be patient. In about 9 hours, all these redirects will expire and it will look normal in here again.

I guess my main hope from here on out is that instead of people worrying about who has posted what threads in the past, we can focus on the threads that are being posted now, and deal with them on individual bases as they arise. I hope this makes sense to all of you on some level.

Sorry for the mess. I only made it in an attempt to clean the place up.
D

FlyersPhanatic9
09-28-2008, 11:24 PM
My apologies if anybody was offended/angry/upset/shocked/confused/etc. about my massive thread merging yesterday.

I take full blame/responsibility/credit/accountability for this action.


Loving the /'s Den... no worries buddy, you are doing a fine job in here. Everyone has one of those days.