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JermanJaysFan
05-11-2008, 02:35 PM
We all know he is a fantastic player. Franchise guy, he has put the team on his back. He has the potential to sustain a great career in the NBA- great shooting range, great quickness, and can take it to the rack and therefore the free throw line, where he shoots a good percentage. But I hope he isn't satisfied yet. I think that there are a few elements of his game that could be patched up and help to make him truly elite. Maybe this is through the use of a bigman coach, I don't know. But here are a couple things I think he could add to his arsenal:

1) A skyhook. Bosh already has a nice little kind of running hook, but I think a skyhook that he could use a bit further from the basket would be a good tool to add. Help him shoot over bigger defenders.

2) 3-pt range. We've seen him shoot a couple, he has the ability to shoot out there. I don't want him camping out there, but the ability to knock down the open trey would make him a more dynamic scorer.

Any other insights about things he could add to his game? I want to make sure that everyone knows that I am not knocking CB4, just making a couple simple suggestions.

ink
05-11-2008, 02:39 PM
Great thread idea JJF! He definitely isn't satisfied yet. With some other talent around him, I bet we would see improvements. I'd like to see him improve his defence and his passing out of double teams. Coach could also help a lot by drawing up more plays for him to move the ball faster to and out of the double team. He just can't hang onto it for so long. When this team moves the ball they are a joy to behold.

JermanJaysFan
05-11-2008, 02:46 PM
Yeah, we all talk about a big man coach for Bargs, but it would be beneficial for CB4 too. When you look at the type of progress Dwight has had with Ewing helping helping him out, you'd think Bosh could do the same. He was already an established NBAer before Ewing was brought in, but the training has reaally helped. Some of Dwights improvements are likely due to his pure athleticism, but he was able to increase his scoring and rebouding by a good bit this year while the team has added a scorer in Lewis and an improved Hedo who would be taking posessions away from him. You see Ewing taking notes on Dwight the whole game through, and talking to him right away at timeouts. Bosh doesn't have an incredible number of holes in his game, but one guy looking out for him could really help.

More shats!
05-11-2008, 02:50 PM
I think Bosh needs to start working on his post game and back to the basket moves.I know he is skinny and dosent have the strenght to back down bigger defenders but teams win with players that play with there back to the basket not taking jumpers from the perimiter.He needs a go to move on the post that no one can guard.I think he show some new moves this year that look Hakeem like(I remember one he did vs Milwaukee late this year,it was "Dream" like).

JermanJaysFan
05-11-2008, 03:01 PM
I think Bosh needs to start working on his post game and back to the basket moves.I know he is skinny and dosent have the strenght to back down bigger defenders but teams win with players that play with there back to the basket not taking jumpers from the perimiter.He needs a go to move on the post that no one can guard.I think he show some new moves this year that look Hakeem like(I remember one he did vs Milwaukee late this year,it was "Dream" like).

Thats part of the reason I suggested the sky hook. If he can ever get it down anywhere close to the likes of these guys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTOX467D6PY), he will be pretty close to unstoppable.

mjt20mik
05-11-2008, 03:04 PM
In my opinion, I think a guy like Sabonis would be a great tutor for Bargnani as well as Bosh. Sabonis is known to be one of the best international players in this league, and I think his experience as well as gritt would be able to help further both of these players game.

JaysAddict43
05-11-2008, 03:05 PM
god..kareem's skyhook is so amazing..

JermanJaysFan
05-11-2008, 03:17 PM
Great thread idea JJF!

Glad you like it Ink. I know I haven't been as active on this board as I would like to be, what with this being grade 12 and the school year winding down, I am finding myself quite busy. But I was cultivating for quite a while yesterday, giving me some time to ruminate on all things Raptors, and voila. The seat of a tractor is a great place to lose yourself in your thoughts.

JermanJaysFan
05-11-2008, 03:18 PM
god..kareem's skyhook is so amazing..

:drool: I know. Don't tell me you cant see Bosh shooting those, though.

B2B
05-11-2008, 03:29 PM
DEFENCE :clap: DEFENCE :clap: I can't help but notice you're improving Bosh's already impressive offensive arsenal with a hook which would be nice but his true weakness is his strength and defence.

The Claw
05-11-2008, 03:41 PM
CB4 should improve his passing skills, should not hold the ball too long and be reactive quickly to double teams and recognize the open teammate.

But in this context, the team needs that slasher who cuts down the lane when CB4 gets doubled. I remember a game when CB4 was doubled and he was like waving his arm for AP to drive to the basket. AP and Delfino can be those guys but not as consistent.

CB4 will be an elite PF we hope for if he gets surrounded with a pass first PG, a slasher, a spot-up outside shooter, and an offensive rebounding machine.

A perfect world for all Raps fans.

BC make it happen !!!

ink
05-11-2008, 04:17 PM
Glad you like it Ink. I know I haven't been as active on this board as I would like to be, what with this being grade 12 and the school year winding down, I am finding myself quite busy. But I was cultivating for quite a while yesterday, giving me some time to ruminate on all things Raptors, and voila. The seat of a tractor is a great place to lose yourself in your thoughts.

Haha. When you said "cultivating" I thought you getting all metaphorical on us. You were actually cultivating on a tractor. :) Planting time north of Toronto?

JermanJaysFan
05-11-2008, 04:26 PM
Haha. When you said "cultivating" I thought you getting all metaphorical on us. You were actually cultivating on a tractor. :) Planting time north of Toronto?

Haha that would be a weird metaphor. And yes it is.

star
05-11-2008, 05:15 PM
CB is a terrific PF.
He can get to the line - amazing free throw shooter.
He has range and can drive and finish.

I think the biggest thing he needs to be able to do is:

1. Speed up his desicions es. on a double team or a kick out. With the 3pt weapons and the fact that he is ungaurdable by what seems like 75% of his oppenents he should be getting guys like Kapono tones of looks.

2. Stop being the main guy in the high screen and roll. (this is more coaching i guess?)

Let Andrea be the screen and popper (thus the opposing big comes out) Option 1 - andrea shoots,
Option 2 - Calderon drives and kicks (kapono)
Option 3 - Hit Bosh under the net
Option 4 - BOSH needs to set a off the ball down screen for (delfino/parker)

- actually thats what he can improve on - he doesnt set enough screens for his wings. The whole team doesnt - they do 1 in a play - but great teams have 2 - 3 screens (off ball) per offensive set.

Ramon Nivar
05-11-2008, 05:26 PM
I have to completely disagree on 3 Point range. I don't think he needs it or should get it. It would be best for him to work on his size and defense before getting more offense.

Halladay
05-11-2008, 05:28 PM
Bosh is the last guy on this team that needs to work on his game.

ink
05-11-2008, 05:30 PM
Bosh is the last guy on this team that needs to work on his game.

I bet Kobe, Garnett, and Lebron work on their games. Why should he be any different? :p I know he's the best on the Raptors by far but I'd be surprised if there's an elite player that doesn't work on his game.

KJK
05-11-2008, 05:43 PM
Personally, I'd like to see him work on his ball handling. He seems to lose/turn the ball over too much, especially when he's backing a defender down. He looks almost out of control with his dribbling at times.

JermanJaysFan
05-11-2008, 05:43 PM
I have to completely disagree on 3 Point range. I don't think he needs it or should get it. It would be best for him to work on his size and defense before getting more offense.

I need to make it clear that I don't want him shooting many threes. But I want it to be something that a defender has to be thinking about.


On another note, after one Dwight Howard goaltend in the playoffs, Chuck and Leo discussed a strategy that I beleive UCLA used in the Kareem days- block the first shot of the game, no matter what. Don't care if its a goaltend, just block the first shot. Do you guys think that that strategy has any place in the NBA, or more importantly, for the Raptors? It definitely sets the tone for the game.

B2B
05-11-2008, 06:33 PM
Definition of a PF - the one of the two forwards whose function is primarily defensive and who is therefore usually the stronger and larger.

A power forward is one of the larger players on the court. They are usually expected to be aggressive pursuing rebounds (Bosh does this) and score most of their points on the low post (no more than six feet (2 m) from the basket), as opposed to taking jump shots from farther away (Bosh does this). Power forwards can be imposing presences on defense, but they usually defer to the center for blocking shots and general intimidation(Definitely not Bargs). In the NBA, a typical power forward is between 6'9" and 7'0" (2.06 to 2.13 m) in height and 240 to 260 pounds (108 to 118 kg) in weight, and is often asked to play center in specific game situations or when a particular team lacks a taller player. The quintessential power forwards in the game today are Tim Duncan of the San Antonio Spurs, and Kevin Garnett of the Boston Celtics

Definition of a SF - the one of the two forwards whose function is primarily to score and who is therefore usually quicker and more agile

Small forwards are primarily responsible for scoring points and also often as secondary or tertiary rebounders behind the power forwards and centers, although a few who play as point forwards have considerable passing responsibilities(Bosh is not bad but could be better). Many small forwards in professional basketball, however, are prolific scorers. The styles with which small forwards amass their points vary widely, as some players at the position like the Hornets' Peja Stojaković are very accurate straight up shooters, while others like the Sacramento Kings' Ron Artest prefer to "bang inside", initiate and/or not shy away from physical contact with opposing players, while others are primarily slashers such as Carmelo Anthony. One common thread between all kinds of small forwards is an ability to "get to the line", (Bosh does this)that is have opposing players called for committing shooting fouls against them, as fouls are frequently called on the defense when offensive players "take the ball hard" to the basket, that is, aggressively attempt post-up plays, lay-ups, or slam dunks. Therefore, accurate foul shooting is an imperative skill for small forwards many of whom record a large portion of their points from the foul line.(Bosh does this)

By these definition's of position Bosh is a hybrid of PF/SF He boards like a PF but scores like a small forward.

Bargs + Bosh r both hybrid SF's playing the C and PF position respectively it's of no surprise that against prototypical PF's and C's we struggle because of lack of size and back to the basket game.

Reason neither can play SF is because they lack the athleticism and speed.

Defense is often a major priority for small forwards, who are often counted on using their athleticism and size as defensive advantages. Many small forwards are excellent defensive players including current NBA player Ron Artest, who is generally regarded as one of the best defensive players in the league today. Shawn Marion of the Miami Heat and Tayshaun Prince of the Detroit Pistons who with their length and athleticism are able to guard any position on the floor and are often called upon to do so. Bruce Bowen of the San Antonio Spurs, while not a star offensive player, is a masterful and tenacious defender, both on the perimeter and closer to the hoop. Former small forwards known for their defensive abilities include Scottie Pippen, one of the best one-on-one defenders in the NBA for most of his career.

TO Fan
05-11-2008, 06:56 PM
Hahaha. nice. I think he should improve on D.

GCOOKIE7
05-11-2008, 09:26 PM
all i can say is Bosh is a Puse. he needs get get stronger because he takes it to the basket to get fouled, not to finish.

JermanJaysFan
05-11-2008, 10:45 PM
all i can say is Bosh is a Puse. he needs get get stronger because he takes it to the basket to get fouled, not to finish.
No, hes not. If he was, we wouldn't get to the line 8.something times per game. You saw him taking it to the rim as a sign of weakness, when really its not. If Bosh is a ***** for taking it to the rack as much as he does, then you must have some really awful term for the rest of the Raptors squad.

Oh, and welcome it PSD GCOOKIE!

Bob_at_york
05-12-2008, 11:22 AM
No, hes not. If he was, we wouldn't get to the line 8.something times per game. You saw him taking it to the rim as a sign of weakness, when really its not. If Bosh is a ***** for taking it to the rack as much as he does, then you must have some really awful term for the rest of the Raptors squad.

Oh, and welcome it PSD GCOOKIE!

I agree, a ***** wouldn't even try to talk the ball inside because they would be too afraid of getting hurt.

_Sn1P3r_
05-14-2008, 07:16 PM
Bosh definitely needs to get stronger. In the playoffs, Dwight would just body him to get to the basket. Also, i think he could work on his passing ability a bit. He faces a lot of double teams so his court vision and passing could find the open man cutting or on the wing. For example, Pau Gasol for a big man is a really good passer.

aman_13
05-14-2008, 10:11 PM
Chris Bosh is certainly going to work on his game to get better. He even said that he will ask his teamates and coaches on what he should improve on and how he could get better. He also knows the importance of getting stronger, he said that he is really going to work on his strength and also his conditioning.

the red dragon
05-14-2008, 10:46 PM
all i can say is Bosh is a Puse. he needs get get stronger because he takes it to the basket to get fouled, not to finish.


YES! Blaine Harrington's abitity to throw down is very B-class. I wouldnt even mind trading him. If Melo is on the block no reason why Bosh should be an untouchable.

and he needs to come up with something more original than his own version of "the Lebrons" nike ad campaign

JermanJaysFan
05-14-2008, 11:35 PM
YES! Blaine Harrington's abitity to throw down is very B-class. I wouldnt even mind trading him. If Melo is on the block no reason why Bosh should be an untouchable.
and he needs to come up with something more original than his own version of "the Lebrons" nike ad campaign

I wouldn do Melo/Bosh. Big men are harded to come by, and Bosh is our franchise. You don't deal franchise guys for marginal talent upgrades, and certainly not for downgrades in character.

B2B
05-14-2008, 11:50 PM
I agree

Bosh > Melo for us because we already lack a front court presence. Now if we could pick up a decent PF who plays defence then I would be all for a Bosh for Melo trade.

the red dragon
05-15-2008, 12:24 AM
I wasnt saying trade Bosh for Melo exactly, just saying Bosh shouldnt be sacreligious to trade him.
Bosh was really just a rebound relationship from Vince. He was at the right place at the right time. Vince didnt want toronto/Canada, so we transfered the dumped love to Bosh. Bosh even admits it. No coincidence he got voted All Star year after. Hes good at rebounding but nothing special after that.

JermanJaysFan
05-15-2008, 08:14 AM
I wasnt saying trade Bosh for Melo exactly, just saying Bosh shouldnt be sacreligious to trade him.
Bosh was really just a rebound relationship from Vince. He was at the right place at the right time. Vince didnt want toronto/Canada, so we transfered the dumped love to Bosh. Bosh even admits it. No coincidence he got voted All Star year after. Hes good at rebounding but nothing special after that.
Wow...
The guy can put up 22 PPG on nearly 50% shooting...he must be good at something other than rebounding.

Oh, and can you show me where Bosh says he is a "rebound relationship"? Because I think Chris is very wrong if he ever said that...

GCOOKIE7
08-05-2008, 07:48 PM
hmmmmm Bosh is good at rebounding?

_Sn1P3r_
08-05-2008, 08:30 PM
I say he's decent. ^^^

He has some nights where he just rebounds like there's no tomorrow but his boards will probably be limited this season.

The Wise 1
08-05-2008, 08:56 PM
I really dont see Chris improving a lot in any one area. I think he has pretty much maxed his talent out. I dont see him ever having a respectable back to the basket game for the simple reason of his lack of size/bulk/strength. I dont see him ever being an above average post defender either, for the reason stated above.

With that being said, I would like to see a improvement in his decision making, passing and blocking/altering shots. IMO I think he will improve those areas with time. I believe he was already on his way with the blocking/altering shots area but declined last year. With Oneal coming on board, I believe we will see Chris average around 1.8 or higher BPG. With the two other areas, I believe they will come with time and experience.

iHop
08-05-2008, 09:44 PM
I dun think its a good idea tellin Bosh to shoot more 3s we have nuff shooters on the team already

deaner
08-05-2008, 09:49 PM
I really dont see Chris improving a lot in any one area. I think he has pretty much maxed his talent out. I dont see him ever having a respectable back to the basket game for the simple reason of his lack of size/bulk/strength. I dont see him ever being an above average post defender either, for the reason stated above.

With that being said, I would like to see a improvement in his decision making, passing and blocking/altering shots. IMO I think he will improve those areas with time. I believe he was already on his way with the blocking/altering shots area but declined last year. With Oneal coming on board, I believe we will see Chris average around 1.8 or higher BPG. With the two other areas, I believe they will come with time and experience.

I agree but... Bosh will have probably the second most physical defender this year due to JO. That factor alone should give CB4 some new space without factoring in the decrease in double teams he will see. His game may not improve that much, but the competition he faces this year will most certainly give him a boost. Also, the time with the USA team should be good for him. (if he doesn't get injured or physically burnt out) We should see him firing on all cylinders on day one of camp.

The raps have 3 PF with complimentary skills:

CB4 with his finesse
JO physically dominant
and Bargs with his shooting ( a guy like me can dream right?)

I can't wait till the first time Sam puts the line-up of:

Jose
Adams
Bargs
Bosh
JO

onto the floor! If they could gel, that would be very entertaining ball.

The Wise 1
08-05-2008, 10:16 PM
I agree but... Bosh will have probably the second most physical defender this year due to JO. That factor alone should give CB4 some new space without factoring in the decrease in double teams he will see. His game may not improve that much, but the competition he faces this year will most certainly give him a boost. Also, the time with the USA team should be good for him. (if he doesn't get injured or physically burnt out) We should see him firing on all cylinders on day one of camp.

The raps have 3 PF with complimentary skills:

CB4 with his finesse
JO physically dominant
and Bargs with his shooting ( a guy like me can dream right?)

I can't wait till the first time Sam puts the line-up of:

Jose
Adams
Bargs
Bosh
JO

onto the floor! If they could gel, that would be very entertaining ball.

What do you mean by the bolded part? IMO he plays better when he has a bigger guy on him, offensively speaking. I agree with the rest of the paragraph though.

Also, can you please tell me the difference between Kapono at the 3 and Andrea at the 3? There both defensive liabilities but Kapono is the smarter player and the better shooter. He also moves really well off the ball, compared to Andrea camping at the 3 point line waiting for someone to set him up for a open 3 so he can shoot it at a clip of 36%. Theres really nothing he brings to the SF spot other then average shooting. Every other skill is below average for a SF. This isnt really directed at you, but more towards the Andrea at the 3 supporters. So to you all, I ask you, why do you think Andrea would be a good fit at the 3?

Completely random but I almost **** myself when I found this out. I had no clue about his rebounding averages in the playoffs. A whopping 1.4 RPG. That is inexcusable.

GCOOKIE7
08-05-2008, 11:53 PM
Get some muscles Bosh you *****

lukeem21
08-06-2008, 12:00 AM
bosh is lacking a post up game compared to most elite pfs, but this is not where he could improve the most... his advantage is being quicker then most pfs and he has decent range... so even if he had a post up game his go to moves would still be 15 feet out

so while he could improve on a post up game i think being a consistent defender would be more beneficial... this means being more aggressive with boxing out and working on both his one on one defense and help side...

-he averages a decent number of rebounds but he has the potential to average over 11 a game if he learns to be more of a hawk, working the angles, boxing out and boxing in

-he is weaker then many pfs so he can get backed in and give up good position while being posted up... he needs to learn how to mix up the pressure, throwing big men off balance, not letting them get their feet set and make solid moves, which forces turn overs and just does not allow big men to be comforatble moving to the net... for the most part now he just tries to push back and that predicatble defense is easy to play against when you are stronger then him

-he should average more blocks, having JO should help him here cause with Bosh, Oneal and Moon floating around the opposing offences will not know which shoulder to look over... but he still should be there quicker on the help side then he has been and not even necessarily blocking a lot more shots but at least challenging them and being a presence

argo
08-06-2008, 12:15 AM
Great thread idea JJF! He definitely isn't satisfied yet. With some other talent around him, I bet we would see improvements. I'd like to see him improve his defence and his passing out of double teams. Coach could also help a lot by drawing up more plays for him to move the ball faster to and out of the double team. He just can't hang onto it for so long. When this team moves the ball they are a joy to behold.

I agree, he could improve his defense and passing out of double teams - we can always improve somewhere. Maybe add some more muscle/ toughness. Love his competitiveness.

deaner
08-06-2008, 12:32 PM
What do you mean by the bolded part? IMO he plays better when he has a bigger guy on him, offensively speaking. I agree with the rest of the paragraph though.

Also, can you please tell me the difference between Kapono at the 3 and Andrea at the 3? There both defensive liabilities but Kapono is the smarter player and the better shooter. He also moves really well off the ball, compared to Andrea camping at the 3 point line waiting for someone to set him up for a open 3 so he can shoot it at a clip of 36%. Theres really nothing he brings to the SF spot other then average shooting. Every other skill is below average for a SF. This isnt really directed at you, but more towards the Andrea at the 3 supporters. So to you all, I ask you, why do you think Andrea would be a good fit at the 3?

Completely random but I almost **** myself when I found this out. I had no clue about his rebounding averages in the playoffs. A whopping 1.4 RPG. That is inexcusable.

There is no doubt Bargs struggled last year. But I still think Bargs has more of a complete game than JK. I don't think we can look at percentages alone. JK's stats were mostly against the second unit and we should factor in the attempts Kapono took as well. He does not create his own shot like Bargs can... being 7 ft can do that. I strongly disagree that JK moves well with the ball... dude... he looks like he has cement blocks tied to his shoes!

It will need to be proven, but I believe an: Adams/Barg and Parker/Moon grouping is our best option on most nights. And of the 2 groups... I think the Adams/Bargs has the more potential to do damage.

As for CB4, he has always had the best big defender on him. Teams would choose if the C or PF would be a better match up. They don't have that option any more... the physical big man will be on JO. That should leave Bosh with less pressure on a lot of nights to do his thing.

travesy3
08-06-2008, 12:45 PM
I would like to see Bosh not settle for jump shots so much. I feel like, he always starts games off going to the hoop, gets like 10 points in the first Q, but then stops taking it to the whole. I know he gets to the line a lot, but he needs to take advantage of all the foul calls, and drive even more, I feel like he relies on his jumper, when he should be driving and using his jumper to keep the defense honest. When his shot is off, I think he usually has bad games, when in reality he should just be taking it to the hoop more.

I think Bosh is capable of posting up more, obviously not against guys like Shaq. And with JO, I think Bosh is going to break out even more this year, since he won't always have to defend the biggest/strongest player on the court, a Center, which is something Bosh is not designed to do.

Similar to Amare with Shaq, I see Bosh blowing up when JO is on the floor.

The Wise 1
08-06-2008, 01:25 PM
There is no doubt Bargs struggled last year. But I still think Bargs has more of a complete game than JK. I don't think we can look at percentages alone. JK's stats were mostly against the second unit and we should factor in the attempts Kapono took as well. He does not create his own shot like Bargs can... being 7 ft can do that. I strongly disagree that JK moves well with the ball... dude... he looks like he has cement blocks tied to his shoes!

Your right, we cant look at the percentages alone. IMO it doesnt matter if it was the 2nd or 1st unit they were playing against because they were both (Andrea more so) mainly camping out at the 3 point line and shooting jump shots there teammates made for them. IMO Andrea was shooting mostly open jump shots the whole year. kapono was guarded more tightly and had a hand in his face more often. Again, I think we disagree about Andrea being able to create his own shot. He might (just a little) be able to create his shot a little better then Kapono when he is playing as a 4/5 compared to Kapono at the 3 but IMO playing Andrea at the 3 will completely shut down his "creating his own shot" abilities. He can barely get around 4's and 5's and now you want him to be guarded by players who are quicker, faster and are used to guarding the perimeter? Andrea would be reduced to even more of a 3 point chucker. Also, you misread me, I said kapono moves well off the ball. Using screens and cuts and such, compared to Andrea just standing around the 3 point line waiting to shoot a brick.

rapswin98
08-06-2008, 02:43 PM
i dont think bosh needs 3-point. if he did have some 3-point range it still wouldn't make him a great pf. imo, bosh needs to improve his post game and become much stronger player. most of the time he gets pushed around easily. if he could improve his defense as well that would be great.

mpickup
08-06-2008, 03:48 PM
CB4 should improve his passing skills, should not hold the ball too long and be reactive quickly to double teams and recognize the open teammate.

exactly my observation
plus the strength issue already mentioned

I think 3pt. shooting would be a bad thing to focus more on...stay inside big man!

RapsFan4Life
08-06-2008, 03:54 PM
i dont think he needs to develope a 3point shot, he is an inside killer, he should defineltly carve his game like KG, he needs to
use his shoulders in the post
gain strength for rebounding offsenvise and defensive
get himself involved, some plays he just camps up at the free throw line
work on a shot off the dribble instead of spot up
a hook like hakeem would be increadable
reverse dunk like jamarios
his ball handeling for double teams and post play
keep workin on his 16 foot jump shot, make it better then duncans
verticle jumping for rebounding and finishing at the rim
practice his pick and pop he will be alot of looks like this since no center will leave JO open under the basket like rasho
he also needs to work on his overall stamina .. his heart never falls but sometimes he looks tired to the end of the game, and that is thanks to Dwight, but still stamina is always key