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View Full Version : David Price or Clayton Kershaw?



C1Bman88
05-06-2008, 12:44 AM
Which pitcher do you think will have the better career?

CAIN=FUTURE
05-06-2008, 12:48 AM
I hate the Dodgers so David Price. And unfortanly Kershaw has to pitch against the Giants more. I basicaly dont know much about either except Price is really good and was the #1 pick overall, and Kershaw is a douch bag Dodger with one nasty curveball. And because I dont know much about either I base my pick off how gay the Dodgers are.

PhillyUD26
05-06-2008, 12:52 AM
I think it has to be David Price, even though I love Kershaw. I think both will be great pitchers, but Price can hit 99, and has a great slider. Also Price went through college, and I think he will be able to have a quicker impact because of that.
Its a good comparison though.

D.P. Master
05-06-2008, 01:18 AM
I think it has to be David Price, even though I love Kershaw. I think both will be great pitchers, but Price can hit 99, and has a great slider. Also Price went through college, and I think he will be able to have a quicker impact because of that.
Its a good comparison though.

We're talking careers though...so since Kershaw didn't have to go to college, he will enter the bigs more polished, at a younger age than Price will.

PhillyUD26
05-06-2008, 01:32 AM
We're talking careers though...so since Kershaw didn't have to go to college, he will enter the bigs more polished, at a younger age than Price will.

Yea the age difference does favor Kershaw cause he will probably have more years in the majors cause of it. But I think that college pitchers can have an impact quicker once they get into the big leagues. Players like Papelbon and Andrew Miller, who came in the year they were drafted and pitched well for their clubs. I'm not saying that Price will come in this year, cause I don't think he will...but next year when he comes in, I think he will have a great success right away.

I think its really close, because its probably the two best LH pitching prospects in the game right now.

xander
05-06-2008, 12:08 PM
Good thread. I'm gonna go for Price on this one even though we know a little more about Kershaw. Price has electric stuff, and I just see better things coming out of him.

con_artist
05-06-2008, 04:28 PM
Good comparison, im gonna say price cuz i think he can live up to being a number one overall pick but it could easily go either way

CAIN=FUTURE
05-06-2008, 10:17 PM
We're talking careers though...so since Kershaw didn't have to go to college, he will enter the bigs more polished, at a younger age than Price will.

I dont know if that really makes a difference. Look at Cain, he came out of H.S. and Lincecum out of College. They are both really good, and they both got drafted at different levels of education. The only difference is that you get a better education in college.

Btw im not trying to take anything away from either player.

D.P. Master
05-06-2008, 10:24 PM
I dont know if that really makes a difference. Look at Cain, he came out of H.S. and Lincecum out of College. They are both really good, and they both got drafted at different levels of education. The only difference is that you get a better education in college.

Btw im not trying to take anything away from either player.

You sort of proved my point...Cain is a more polished pitcher than Lincecum at this time despite the record. Not only that, he's younger than Lincecum and already has two years of MLB experience on him.

CAIN=FUTURE
05-06-2008, 10:31 PM
You sort of proved my point...Cain is a more polished pitcher than Lincecum at this time despite the record. Not only that, he's younger than Lincecum and already has two years of MLB experience on him.

Thats true, but I was saying down the line in their carrers it wont make a difference.

lincecum=future
05-06-2008, 11:33 PM
The two best young lefty prospects in the minors IMO. Unfortunately I will say Clayton Kershaw. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Tragedy
05-06-2008, 11:35 PM
It's so difficult to predict prospects, as, for all we know, one or both of these guys could end up never even making it to the majors (Doubtful, but wouldn't be the first time).

With that said, I'll take Kershaw, but each, if they can reach full potential, should have great careers.

CAIN=FUTURE
05-07-2008, 12:30 AM
The two best young lefty prospects in the minors IMO. Unfortunately I will say Clayton Kershaw. Hopefully I'm wrong.

I hope your really wrong!

McJoe
05-07-2008, 04:05 PM
this is a really good thread but what else do you expect from the prospect guru C1B

from what ive seen and heard Price is absolutely scary...hell be up probably to start the next season and already be dominating and in spring training he struck out 3 major leaguers and YANKEES not just three scrubs but 3 starters for the yankees i believe. Kid is the real deal and is gonna be absolutely scary...a LOCK for next years rookie of the year IMO

and from what ive heard from Kershaw lately he is having some problems in AA or wherever he is...and while he is still gonna have a great career...i still woudlve given him up for Santana and the Dodgers probably shouldve

Celts22
05-07-2008, 04:08 PM
Im going with Kershaw since Price is going to be playing for the Rays for a while and will have to constantly face the yankees, Red Sox, blue jays, indians, tigers & angels, 6 very good offensive teams in the AL.

Jilly Bohnson
05-07-2008, 05:13 PM
this is a really good thread but what else do you expect from the prospect guru C1B

from what ive seen and heard Price is absolutely scary...hell be up probably to start the next season and already be dominating and in spring training he struck out 3 major leaguers and YANKEES not just three scrubs but 3 starters for the yankees i believe. Kid is the real deal and is gonna be absolutely scary...a LOCK for next years rookie of the year IMO

and from what ive heard from Kershaw lately he is having some problems in AA or wherever he is...and while he is still gonna have a great career...i still woudlve given him up for Santana and the Dodgers probably shouldve

You heard wrong, 1.11 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, 36 Ks, 23 Hs, 11 BBs in 32 IP. That's dominance.

I'm going to take Price on this one, because from the sounds of it he has significantly better control. Both guys have outstanding stuff, though it sounds like Kershaw's is a little better, so I'm going to have to side with Price due to his control advantage.

C1Bman88
05-08-2008, 12:24 AM
I picked Price.

Most of that is just wishful thinking, I have to admit. I think Kershaw has the better pure stuff, but I have far more faith in Price's control- and he's supposed to have an outstanding personality.

In my opinion, Kershaw has more upside- but Price is more of a sure thing. I'd love to watch them duel, that's for sure.

Jilly Bohnson
05-08-2008, 02:38 AM
I picked Price.

Most of that is just wishful thinking, I have to admit. I think Kershaw has the better pure stuff, but I have far more faith in Price's control- and he's supposed to have an outstanding personality.

In my opinion, Kershaw has more upside- but Price is more of a sure thing. I'd love to watch them duel, that's for sure.

As a Cubs fan, I kind of dumbed it down in my head like this. Kershaw is Kerry Wood, Price is Mark Prior. Kershaw/Wood has the ridiculous stuff, we're talking a guy that can K 11 or 12 per 9 innings, however they're prone to being wild. Price/Prior have very good stuff, but also very good control. They will strike out a little over a guy per inning, but you don't have to worry about them walking 100 guys a year too. So for that fact I'm going to take Price.

GHGHCP
05-08-2008, 11:26 AM
Kershaw should have a better career because Price has had shoulder problems in the past. Also I've never seen a top prospect list rate Price higher then Kershaw (or even Price in the top ten).

C1Bman88
05-09-2008, 12:16 AM
Kershaw should have a better career because Price has had shoulder problems in the past. Also I've never seen a top prospect list rate Price higher then Kershaw (or even Price in the top ten).

I'm not sure if there's really much behind that. Price didn't even have a chance to pitch last year, and that always has something to do with the voting.

We can find a similar situation here- who is more likely to have the better career, Homer Bailey or Rick Porcello? Bailey was rated higher on both Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus' Top Prospects lists, but I can't think of many who would take Bailey over Porcello as a prospect.

Interesting point about the shoulder, but I don't know if we can really see that as a cause for concern. Kershaw really hasn't pitched enough yet for us to know if he'll have any injury problems.

GHGHCP
05-09-2008, 01:10 AM
I'm not sure if there's really much behind that. Price didn't even have a chance to pitch last year, and that always has something to do with the voting.

We can find a similar situation here- who is more likely to have the better career, Homer Bailey or Rick Porcello? Bailey was rated higher on both Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus' Top Prospects lists, but I can't think of many who would take Bailey over Porcello as a prospect.

Interesting point about the shoulder, but I don't know if we can really see that as a cause for concern. Kershaw really hasn't pitched enough yet for us to know if he'll have any injury problems.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/news/top50/y2008/

Kershaw 4th
Price 11th

Just looking at Kershaw's size and his mechanics no one can say he will have injuries problems more then any other pitcher, if anything he would be less of an injury risk because of my reasons listed. Price on the other hand has had arm trouble already (elbow not shoulder as I stated before), for that reason alone you gotta go with Kershaw. I mean come on he was injured TWICE this spring training alone.

And to your question about Bailey and Porcello, I don't think that is fair comparing the two right now as Porcello is a different animal with him being drafted so recently (wish the Dodgers spent the extra cash sigh..) and he is still rated pretty high. When Kershaw was drafted he wasn't rated in the top 10 (or top lefty even in our farm system till Elbert got injured) but I'm sure when they make the next top prospects list he might break top ten.

C1Bman88
05-09-2008, 01:24 AM
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/news/top50/y2008/

Kershaw 4th
Price 11th

Just looking at Kershaw's size and his mechanics no one can say he will have injuries problems more then any other pitcher, if anything he would be less of an injury risk because of my reasons listed. Price on the other hand has had arm trouble already, for that reason alone you gotta go with Kershaw.

And to your question about Bailey and Porcello, I don't think that is fair comparing the two right now as Porcello is a different animal with him being drafted so recently (wish the Dodgers spent the extra cash sigh..) and he is still rated pretty high. When Kershaw was drafted he wasn't rated in the top 10 (or top lefty even in our farm system till Elbert got injured) but I'm sure when they make the next top prospects list he might break top ten.

Pointing out the Minor League Baseball site's list doesn't really help. Nobody in their right mind would place Adam Miller, for example, 10th. Or even putting a pitcher like Carlos Carrasco in the top 50. Or putting Ian Kennedy in the top 30. Kershaw hasn't pitched long enough to determine if he's going to experience arm troubles or any other type of injury. Mark Prior was well-noted for his perfect mechanics, yet he still fell apart. You cannot make the assumption, either, that Price will fall apart.

As for Porcello and Bailey not being a fair comparison . . .can't the same be said for Price? He was just drafted as well. And he has yet to throw a professional inning. Yet he's still rated in the top 15 for pretty much every listing. The point still stands.

GHGHCP
05-09-2008, 11:11 AM
Pointing out the Minor League Baseball site's list doesn't really help. Nobody in their right mind would place Adam Miller, for example, 10th. Or even putting a pitcher like Carlos Carrasco in the top 50. Or putting Ian Kennedy in the top 30. Kershaw hasn't pitched long enough to determine if he's going to experience arm troubles or any other type of injury. Mark Prior was well-noted for his perfect mechanics, yet he still fell apart. You cannot make the assumption, either, that Price will fall apart.

As for Porcello and Bailey not being a fair comparison . . .can't the same be said for Price? He was just drafted as well. And he has yet to throw a professional inning. Yet he's still rated in the top 15 for pretty much every listing. The point still stands.

It is funny you bring up Prior (a collage pitcher) when talking about Price (another collage pitcher). Why do you think more and more teams want to draft high school pitchers with high potential and good arms rather then the collage guys who are a little more polished? It has to do with the coaches of those collage kids, if you're an ace in a must win game more times then not the coach could care less about your arm and future as he wants to win NOW making his program more renowned and in turn getting him (and the school) more cash in the long run. As we have seen time and time again kids coming out of collage with arm trouble (like Price) due to over use.

In conclusion we have a kid from high school with high potential, good arm, great size and great mechanics against a kid from collage with high potential and great mechanics that seems to be overworked (from his collage days) with already two arm injuries. You might think its unfair, I just call that common sense. Already being injured twice in this spring training alone doesn't bother you?

C1Bman88
05-09-2008, 12:57 PM
No, I'm not bothered by it one bit. I don't think it's an indication that he's going to be injury prone throughout his career, nor do I think that you can rightfully assume that Kershaw will never have arm troubles. By the way, Price's injuries were forearm and elbow related, which were both strains. He had shoulder stiffness.

He's 3 years older than Kershaw- how can you assume that Kershaw won't face the same "problems" at that age? You said that Price had great mechanics, yet you still consider him "injury prone." But you can't make that statement without admitting that the same could very well hold true for Kershaw, and since it seems that's how you're basing your entire judgment of the two pitchers, it makes your preference somewhat questionable. Clayton simply hasn't been pitching long enough to consider him injury prone or not, even with "great mechanics"- because Price has those as well.

If you said "I think Clayton will have the better career because I think he has better stuff and I like his upside more," then I could definitely agree with you on those points. But pointing to prospect lists and insignificant setbacks are not reasons to pick Kershaw over Price.

GHGHCP
05-09-2008, 01:24 PM
No, I'm not bothered by it one bit. I don't think it's an indication that he's going to be injury prone throughout his career, nor do I think that you can rightfully assume that Kershaw will never have arm troubles. By the way, Price's injuries were forearm and elbow related, which were both strains. He had shoulder stiffness.

He's 3 years older than Kershaw- how can you assume that Kershaw won't face the same "problems" at that age? You said that Price had great mechanics, yet you still consider him "injury prone." But you can't make that statement without admitting that the same could very well hold true for Kershaw, and since it seems that's how you're basing your entire judgment of the two pitchers, it makes your preference somewhat questionable. Clayton simply hasn't been pitching long enough to consider him injury prone or not, even with "great mechanics"- because Price has those as well.

If you said "I think Clayton will have the better career because I think he has better stuff and I like his upside more," then I could definitely agree with you on those points. But pointing to prospect lists and insignificant setbacks are not reasons to pick Kershaw over Price.

I never said he was injury prone and he does have good mechanics like Kershaw, what you are over looking is Price's time in collage which has hurt other pitchers in the past. You can have the size and greatest mechanics in the world, that all goes down the tube if you are overworked. Was Price overworked in his collage days by an over zealous coach (which has happened a lot in and past) that wanted to win now? time will tell but because Price already is showing arm problems it is not a stretch to assume he will be plagued by arm troubles in the future.

How is pointing out prospect list and arm problems NOT a basis to access who will have the better career? we do not all have a magic eight ball. I bring up that prospect list because people will assume that as I'm for Kershaw I will be labeled a homer when that is not the case. You can not look over the fact that after one inning of spring training work Price went down for nearly 2 months with arm trouble, if that is minor then I don't know what to tell you.

Find a prospect list that rates Price higher then Kershaw, do not bring other pitchers that have had shaky starts to base your argument against Kershaw. This is about Kershaw and Price.

C1Bman88
05-09-2008, 05:12 PM
I never said he was injury prone and he does have good mechanics like Kershaw, what you are over looking is Price's time in collage which has hurt other pitchers in the past. You can have the size and greatest mechanics in the world, that all goes down the tube if you are overworked. Was Price overworked in his collage days by an over zealous coach (which has happened a lot in and past) that wanted to win now? time will tell but because Price already is showing arm problems it is not a stretch to assume he will be plagued by arm troubles in the future.

How is pointing out prospect list and arm problems NOT a basis to access who will have the better career? we do not all have a magic eight ball. I bring up that prospect list because people will assume that as I'm for Kershaw I will be labeled a homer when that is not the case. You can not look over the fact that after one inning of spring training work Price went down for nearly 2 months with arm trouble, if that is minor then I don't know what to tell you.

Find a prospect list that rates Price higher then Kershaw, do not bring other pitchers that have had shaky starts to base your argument against Kershaw. This is about Kershaw and Price.

Price threw 69 innings in 2005, 51 in 2006, and 133 in 2007. That large jump in innings pitched was over the course of one year, which explains the shoulder stiffness, and both the elbow and forearm strains. I'm still trying to find information about other leagues he's pitched in between seasons, but I can't find any. Claiming that "Price is already developing arm problems" infers that Price is or will be injury prone. If you give Price ample time to recover (as he has), there is no reason to believe that one season of being overworked will result in an injury-plagued career, when the injuries sustained were minor. They are being very careful with Price, which explains the amount of time he was held out.

My point about prospect lists is simple, so I'll explain it again: Price didn't pitch in the Minors last year, but Kershaw had. If Price had pitched, chances are quite good that he'd be at the exact same slot, if not higher, than Kershaw. Jay Bruce wouldn't be on the top of everyone's prospects lists if he hadn't had such a phenomenal season last year. That's why you can't use a prospect list for accurately comparing these two. Upside doesn't necessarily place you higher than another player- if that was the case, players like Jesus Montero, Carlos Triunfel and Angel Villalona would probably be in the top 10. That's why I brought in the Porcello-Bailey comparison. Price hasn't had the opportunity to prove anything yet, and Kershaw was coming off a dominant year in the Minors.

Again, you can say "I think Kershaw has the better stuff and projects better," and you'll have much more sound reasoning. I understand and respect why you're picking Kershaw (and I'm not calling you a homer), I just don't agree with your particular points. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

GHGHCP
05-09-2008, 05:59 PM
I think Kershaw has better stuff and projects better. :D Anyway good debate and we will just have to agree to disagree. Think Hosmer will drop far enough for the Dodgers to pick him up? :D I can dream can't I~!

C1Bman88
05-09-2008, 06:14 PM
IMO, there's actually a decent chance that Hosmer could drop to 15. But I could see them taking someone like Gerrit Cole, also. Logan White seems to enjoy taking High School pitchers as of late, what with Kershaw in 2006 and Withrow in 2007.

Us Giants fans are hoping for Pedro Alvarez. So you're definitely not alone in having high hopes for this year's draft. :D

GHGHCP
05-09-2008, 06:31 PM
Yeah White does love those high school hurlers but you never know. With our farm filled with decent pitching it really does need a big bat in there. Hosmer would fill in that role nicely.

RedSoxRok34
05-16-2008, 11:45 PM
personally id take kershaw, i think he has better overall arsenal than price. id be happy to take either one, though:D

Lincecum4CY
09-01-2008, 02:43 AM
IMO David Price will have a better career. Not because i hate the dodgers.... just because Price is nastyyyyyy

blujaysrock
09-01-2008, 05:13 PM
David PRice