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View Full Version : The End of an Era for the Mavs and Suns?



Duiz
04-30-2008, 09:48 AM
After both teams were among the West top teams for the past 4 seasons, neither have accomplished anything despite being powerhouses. The firings of Avery Johnson and Mike D'Antoni may very well be on the verge. So have we seen it come to an end?

For the Suns, I really don't know what they could do. They have no trade assets besides Barbosa and the Hawks pick their owner is cheap and their GM is a self proclaimed "idiot".

The Mavs on the other hand, do have assets, but they gave up their biggest one for an aging player (like the Suns did). It's possible the Howard and Terry might both be move to help restructure the roster.

Also...we might see the end of the Pistons if they fail to reach the finals. But that's for another discussion.

Gone are the days of The Mavs-Suns reign in the west and now are the times for Lakers, Hornets and Jazz.

stawka
04-30-2008, 09:57 AM
Buddy i know you're new to these forums, but please...

Seventh King
04-30-2008, 10:03 AM
After both teams were among the West top teams for the past 4 seasons, neither have accomplished anything despite being powerhouses. The firings of Avery Johnson and Mike D'Antoni may very well be on the verge. So have we seen it come to an end?

For the Suns, I really don't know what they could do. They have no trade assets besides Barbosa and the Hawks pick their owner is cheap and their GM is a self proclaimed "idiot".

The Mavs on the other hand, do have assets, but they gave up their biggest one for an aging player (like the Suns did). It's possible the Howard and Terry might both be move to help restructure the roster.

Also...we might see the end of the Pistons if they fail to reach the finals. But that's for another discussion.

Gone are the days of The Mavs-Suns reign in the west and now are the times for Lakers, Hornets and Jazz.

Dude, when did Kerr call himself an idiot?

DQL
04-30-2008, 12:11 PM
The end of an era means the beginning of a new one. I hope they will get better

40oz
04-30-2008, 02:11 PM
if cuban quits acting like he knows more about basketball then the pro's do they'll be competitive. but, my wifes suns are scewed, that owner is not willing to spend the money, they'll have to fight to get to playoffs...

CowboysKB24
04-30-2008, 02:12 PM
I don't think so at all. Just got new teams with those trades give them one more season and see how it goes. Also they both need help in the paint and need another guy to help out on defense. No inside presence on defensive end. Let's wait and see what the off-season brings us. Mavs need help off the bench.

BlondeBomber41
04-30-2008, 02:27 PM
Not at all. The Mavs are still relatively young with Dirk and Howard being under 30 and Terry just over 30. They have pieces to play with like Stack and Kidds expiring contracts and the MLE. Mavericks management has shown to be the most creative in the league in finding ways to bring in talent through trade like they did with Terry, Jamison, Stack/Harris, Dampier, Antoine Walker etc. Some teams will be shopping players this year, and the Mavs will be in the hunt. There is no blowup.

Nash is still playing at an MVP level with good pieces around Amare. They will come back next year and be in contention just like they were this year. They lost 4-1 to San Antonio but the series was alot closer than that.

junion
04-30-2008, 02:31 PM
They're not done, both teams have good players... I think they just need a new coach, and a couple tweaks with players. and they'll be playoff contenders, but not sure about automatic championship contenders.

JordansBulls
04-30-2008, 04:52 PM
Both teams have to make changes in order to win, especially coaching.

Epic89
04-30-2008, 04:55 PM
I think that if you give the Suns another year to gel with Shaq, Amare continues to play out of his mind, and if they get a good coach to replace D'antoni (assuming he leaves), I think the Suns could stick around and stay relevant.

I don't know what's up with the Mavs though; they were lucky to make the postseason in the first place, their PG just got owned by a younger and more agile one, and their starting small-forward is a dip**** with questionable intelligence, priorities, and character. I don't know about them.

It certainly won't be easy; the Spurs, Lakers, and Jazz are the new class of the West, the Hornets and Rockets look like playoff stables for years to come, and the Warriors, Blazers, and Kings could all threaten for the postseason next year. Not gonna be easy.

AllTheWay
04-30-2008, 05:49 PM
I think that if you give the Suns another year to gel with Shaq, Amare continues to play out of his mind, and if they get a good coach to replace D'antoni (assuming he leaves), I think the Suns could stick around and stay relevant.

I don't know what's up with the Mavs though; they were lucky to make the postseason in the first place, their PG just got owned by a younger and more agile one, and their starting small-forward is a dip**** with questionable intelligence, priorities, and character. I don't know about them.

It certainly won't be easy; the Spurs, Lakers, and Jazz are the new class of the West, the Hornets and Rockets look like playoff stables for years to come, and the Warriors, Blazers, and Kings could all threaten for the postseason next year. Not gonna be easy.

your sig is off the mutha****in hook

lakers4sho
04-30-2008, 05:49 PM
Suns need a coach who plays his bench, and Dallas needs a young guard that can jumpstart the team (coincidence...I think NOT!)

t-wolves4ever
04-30-2008, 06:10 PM
the twolves will get avery quote me

-PRIMETIME-
04-30-2008, 06:13 PM
for the Mavs I would say yes...

they just fired thier coach about 5 minutes after the game ended...

they may make the playoffs next year, but it will be a different team getting there...

madiaz3
04-30-2008, 06:16 PM
This is probably a season that marks the end of Western dominance. I don't think we'll be seeing eight 50 win teams in one conference next season. Everything peaked so fast, and it will end just as quickly.

lakers4sho
04-30-2008, 06:22 PM
This is probably a season that marks the end of Western dominance. I don't think we'll be seeing eight 50 win teams in one conference next season. Everything peaked so fast, and it will end just as quickly.

disagree. All 8 teams right now are still capable of winning 50 games, plus you gotta add Golden State and Portland to that list. 10 teams with 50+ wins fighting for a playoff spot. That's pretty intense :smoking:

daeth
05-01-2008, 02:40 PM
The Phoenix Suns had their chance to take a stand, to defend their home court, to justify their bold mid-season trade for Shaquille O'Neal, to show why this group and this system should continue.

But we know what happened on the game against San Antonio.

Instead they fell, fast and hard, looking less like a cohesive unit and more like a mismatched collection of parts that the San Antonio Spurs easily dismantled, 115-99, in Game 3. The Suns never found something to stand by or stand on, and thus moved a step closer to extinction.

Is there still some hope for the Suns?

PHX-SOXFAN
05-01-2008, 02:46 PM
little late for game 3 discussion, now that the series went 5 and is over, huh?

Which banned lakerfan are you again?

Mallpha
05-01-2008, 03:00 PM
I asume by hope you mena do all those veterans on Suns still got a chance to get a ring, well 1-2 year window max for this core of players but to be really sure about that we need to see them play under new coach if things will look bad than they just should concentrate on keepign Amare and finding some young talented players that could benefit from Nash Shaq Hill presence

40oz
05-01-2008, 03:16 PM
I asume by hope you mena do all those veterans on Suns still got a chance to get a ring, well 1-2 year window max for this core of players but to be really sure about that we need to see them play under new coach if things will look bad than they just should concentrate on keepign Amare and finding some young talented players that could benefit from Nash Shaq Hill presence

exactly...

superkegger
05-01-2008, 03:24 PM
little late for game 3 discussion, now that the series went 5 and is over, huh?

Which banned lakerfan are you again?

HAHA. Nice

Tony_Starks
05-01-2008, 05:06 PM
Is there still hope for the Suns? No.

Nash is broke down or if you want to be fair breaking down. Same for Shaq. Same for Hill. They refused to give props to Joe Johnson and Marion and lost them both. Very arrogant move considering both of these guys are in the prime of their careers. They tried the quick fix bandaid of acquiring Shaq and we all saw what happened.

In short they gave up on a really good team too quick and now will be stuck in salary cap hell for a couple of years and then total rebuild.

JordansBulls
05-01-2008, 05:06 PM
This is how the Mavs have done over the years.

2007-08 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 51 31 .622 4 Lost Western Conference First Round

2006-07 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 67 15 .817 1 Lost Western Conference First Round

2005-06 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 60 22 .732 2 Lost Finals

2004-05 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 58 24 .707 2 Lost Western Conference Semifinals

2003-04 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 52 30 .634 3 Lost Western Conference First Round

2002-03 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 60 22 .732 1 Lost Western Conference Finals

2001-02 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 57 25 .695 2 Lost Western Conference Semifinals

2000-01 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 53 29 .646 2 Lost Western Conference Semifinals


That team won 51+ games for 8 years in a row.




Here is the Suns:

2007-08 NBA Phoenix Suns* 55 27 .671 2 Lost Western Conference First Round

2006-07 NBA Phoenix Suns* 61 21 .744 1 Lost Western Conference Semifinals

2005-06 NBA Phoenix Suns* 54 28 .659 1 Lost Western Conference Finals

2004-05 NBA Phoenix Suns* 62 20 .756 1 Lost Western Conference Finals


They won 54+ games the last 4 years.


Until both teams start winning less than 51 games I say they are still in the mix.

gcoll
05-01-2008, 05:24 PM
They refused to give props to Joe Johnson and Marion and lost them both.
Not sure what that means. I am not sure what "props" Marion wanted. He was the highest paid player on the team.

About the Suns in general. I'd say they got a legit shot next year. After that...doesn't look good. 1 year, probably. 2 year, possibly though doubtful. 3 year, no. That's the current window.

Tony_Starks
05-01-2008, 05:59 PM
Not sure what that means. I am not sure what "props" Marion wanted. He was the highest paid player on the team.

About the Suns in general. I'd say they got a legit shot next year. After that...doesn't look good. 1 year, probably. 2 year, possibly though doubtful. 3 year, no. That's the current window.


The props he didn't get was by dangling him as trade bait every year. The hardest working player on the team, and a allstar's constantly on the trading block while Nash and Stoudamire are untouchable. They also refused to talk contract extension and when he asked for a huge extension pre-camp Steve Kerr literally said "Only KG and Tim Duncan deserve that kind of money." Thats when he demanded the trade.

They didn't give Johnson his props by trying to low ball him on re-negotiating his contract. He asked them to simply give him a offer and they refused. They basically said tell us what everyone else is offering and we'll counter. Which basically means they were only willing to pay what another team would pay him instead of just offering what they thought he was worth. He pretty much said screw it ship me to ATL.

Not to mention the Kurt Thomas debacle. What's ironic is they would be soooo cheap with these guys and yet blow their wad on a washed up Shaq. :confused:

Fayzon10
05-01-2008, 06:21 PM
Dude, when did Kerr call himself an idiot?
dude, Kerr did say after the Shaq trade that if it doesn't work out he would be seen as an idiot...

JordansBulls
05-01-2008, 06:23 PM
Joe Johnson wanted to go somewhere where he could be the primary star and Marion didn't want to be the 3rd star on the team.

-PRIMETIME-
05-01-2008, 06:45 PM
This is how the Mavs have done over the years.

2007-08 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 51 31 .622 4 Lost Western Conference First Round

2006-07 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 67 15 .817 1 Lost Western Conference First Round

2005-06 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 60 22 .732 2 Lost Finals

2004-05 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 58 24 .707 2 Lost Western Conference Semifinals

2003-04 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 52 30 .634 3 Lost Western Conference First Round

2002-03 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 60 22 .732 1 Lost Western Conference Finals

2001-02 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 57 25 .695 2 Lost Western Conference Semifinals

2000-01 NBA Dallas Mavericks* 53 29 .646 2 Lost Western Conference Semifinals


That team won 51+ games for 8 years in a row.




Here is the Suns:

2007-08 NBA Phoenix Suns* 55 27 .671 2 Lost Western Conference First Round

2006-07 NBA Phoenix Suns* 61 21 .744 1 Lost Western Conference Semifinals

2005-06 NBA Phoenix Suns* 54 28 .659 1 Lost Western Conference Finals

2004-05 NBA Phoenix Suns* 62 20 .756 1 Lost Western Conference Finals


They won 54+ games the last 4 years.


Until both teams start winning less than 51 games I say they are still in the mix.

good post

and also a great achievement by Cuban and the Mavs for staying contenders for so long...

Gilbert>TheRest
05-01-2008, 07:13 PM
it had to end sooner or later

G-Funk
05-01-2008, 07:22 PM
Lakers, Hornets, Rockets, Jazz & Portland are going to be much stronger while teams like Spurs, Mavs and Suns will be declining due to age. That does not mean they wont make the playoffs but the window keeps getting smaller & tougher to win a ring.

Tony_Starks
05-01-2008, 07:23 PM
Joe Johnson wanted to go somewhere where he could be the primary star and Marion didn't want to be the 3rd star on the team.


You sound like Steve Kerr. Since when do teams trade players because of what the players want? Players make trade demands all the time. Teams trade because of what THEY want.

JordansBulls
07-23-2008, 06:12 PM
Mavs and Suns can still compete if they they get one more piece but it will be much more difficult for either team in the west nowadays. Mavs need a defensive perimeter guy and the Suns need to avoid the Spurs.

king4day
07-23-2008, 06:16 PM
Wow, talk about an old thread being brought back.
I think they will both compete this year but can't say either are favorites to win it all (or even reach the finals).
If the Mavs don't do anything more in terms of FA or trades, than they might be in more trouble if they don't gel better. I don't get why they spent so much on Diop. He's a good center but not a midlevel guy.
If the Suns didn't get Barnes, I'd say they would be just as low. If they get a backup PG then they should be OK in terms of competing this season.

JordansBulls
07-23-2008, 06:18 PM
Wow, talk about an old thread being brought back.
I think they will both compete this year but can't say either are favorites to win it all (or even reach the finals).
If the Mavs don't do anything more in terms of FA or trades, than they might be in more trouble if they don't gel better. I don't get why they spent so much on Diop. He's a good center but not a midlevel guy.
If the Suns didn't get Barnes, I'd say they would be just as low. If they get a backup PG then they should be OK in terms of competing this season.

lol

I didn't even recognize it.

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