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nstojic
04-04-2008, 08:39 AM
it begins..

last night, Purcey: (W) 6 IP, 2 H, 2 BB, 7 SO on 90 pitches. Lind: 1/4, 1 HR, 1 RBI

Snider(Dunedin Advanced A-Ball): came in to pinch hit, walked and stole a base

goin to the opener tonight!!!!!

torontosports10
04-04-2008, 09:41 AM
hmm i thought i read that Snider was starting at AA ball and why is he pinch hitting also.. Good to see Purcey have a good game tho

nstojic
04-05-2008, 11:47 AM
last night, for the Lansing Lugnuts: SS Kevin Ahrens (1st round pick last year) 4/5, 2 rbi, LF Yohermyn Chavez (diamond in rough) 4/5, SP Kyle Ginley 6ip 7h 4so...

more on Chavez here
"Yohermyn Chavez, OF
Remember this name, if you can pronounce it. The 19-year-old may appear to have backpedaled, going from the Appalachian League (where he hit .276 at age 17) in 2006 to the Gulf Coast League (where he batted .301 with six homers). But remember, the Jays changed their short-season affiliation ladder, so it was more of a lateral move for the Venezuelan teen.

Chavez has all the tools and is an outstanding athlete about whom the Jays are understandably excited.

"He's a great kid, a tremendously hard worker with great size and great tools," Scott said. "If he'd grown up in the States, he probably would have been a football player." from http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080229&content_id=353052&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp

Twitchy
04-05-2008, 12:10 PM
Justin Jackson's been on absolute fire so far. 4/7, 4 R, one 2B, 4:4 K:BB, 571/667/714....

Arencibia - 1/8 with a HR

Ahrens - 5/9, one 2B, 2 RBI

Tolisano is 1/8 with a 2B and 2 RBI...

Mixed results from the 07 draft class (in 2 games though...). But really glad to see Ahrens & Jackson hitting the ball early.

nstojic
04-05-2008, 12:30 PM
Justin Jackson's been on absolute fire so far. 4/7, 4 R, one 2B, 4:4 K:BB, 571/667/714....

Arencibia - 1/8 with a HR

Ahrens - 5/9, one 2B, 2 RBI

Tolisano is 1/8 with a 2B and 2 RBI...

Mixed results from the 07 draft class (in 2 games though...). But really glad to see Ahrens & Jackson hitting the ball early.

good to see him hit, they project him as the future 3B after Rolen... Jackson has the tools, he just has to fill out, 6'2" 175lbs

Halladay
04-05-2008, 12:42 PM
The thing is with Jackson, he's not projected to do much with the bat. "They" say he's a complete wild card who will be more of a defensive shortstop with little power although I do agree with the above post, he needs to fill out his frame, he has alot of room to add muscle-175 lbs at 6'2 is very skinny. It's nice to see some success for these guys, they were all good picks. How's Eiland doing though? I have high expectation for him, he could end up being the best of that 07' class.

nstojic
04-05-2008, 12:44 PM
Here's an interesting read about Brett Cecil, the Jays are trying to convert him to a SP from a bullpen guy but either way, i hope he lives up to his potential... watched him pitch in the spring and he's got the make-up of a nasty pitcher with some swagger to his game.. fans love that personality

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080404&content_id=380502&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp

Twitchy
04-05-2008, 12:47 PM
The thing is with Jackson, he's not projected to do much with the bat. "They" say he's a complete wild card who will be more of a defensive shortstop with little power although I do agree with the above post, he needs to fill out his frame, he has alot of room to add muscle-175 lbs at 6'2 is very skinny. It's nice to see some success for these guys, they were all good picks. How's Eiland doing though? I have high expectation for him, he could end up being the best of that 07' class.

I remember hearing Jackson put on 15 pounds of muscle this year. The other thing is that most scouts view him as being a high risk high reward guy - most scouts say he could be one of the steals of the 07 draft because he could have an amazing bat. Right now it's all defense, but he's got a pretty high ceiling offensively too.

Eiland is in extended spring training...I don't think that's a good thing :(.

Halladay
04-05-2008, 12:55 PM
I remember hearing Jackson put on 15 pounds of muscle this year. The other thing is that most scouts view him as being a high risk high reward guy - most scouts say he could be one of the steals of the 07 draft because he could have an amazing bat. Right now it's all defense, but he's got a pretty high ceiling offensively too.

Eiland is in extended spring training...I don't think that's a good thing :(.

I agree about Jackson. He really is one of those prototypical high school high risk high reward picks. I guess it comes with the territory of drafting high schoolers. That's definitely not good news about Eiland, last I heard of him was that he was still struggling a bit with a hamstring or quad injury or something like that. Mind you, that was probably 10 months or so ago. The good thing is, Eiland, like Ahrens, Jackson, Tolisano are all very raw and very young, I don't expect any of these guys in the majors for atleast another 3 years which gives them alot of time to mature and develope. The only exception might be Tolisano-Gibbons spoke highly of him in ST.

nstojic
04-05-2008, 12:59 PM
The thing is with Jackson, he's not projected to do much with the bat. "They" say he's a complete wild card who will be more of a defensive shortstop with little power although I do agree with the above post, he needs to fill out his frame, he has alot of room to add muscle-175 lbs at 6'2 is very skinny. It's nice to see some success for these guys, they were all good picks. How's Eiland doing though? I have high expectation for him, he could end up being the best of that 07' class.

as far as Jackson, hey... they said Rios would have a hard time developing power but oftentimes, it's a crapshoot

Eiland is nowhere to be seen, he's not on a the roster at AAA, AA, A(advanced), or A ball..... they might put him on the Auburn Doubledays roster.. they have a shortened season and it caters to the players from the draft.. it allows them to come in from their school seasons and start a short season of pro ball... cecil, ahrens, jackson went there last year... Eiland played for the Gulf Coast Jays last year, another short season, he had 38/176, .216 avg, .315 obp, 1 hr, 14 rbi, 16 sb, being a lefty corner outfielder at 6'2" 200lbs he's worth following

Halladay
04-05-2008, 01:04 PM
Yeah but Jackson isn't the same size as Rios. Rios' frame is built for power where as Jacksons really isn't. Im a little disappointed to hear about Eiland, he really could be the best player we got from the draft. Eiland, like Jackson,(the experts say) will never put up power numbers but he's suppose to be a great athlete who chose baseball over football and you can tell by how many steals he got last year.

jrice9
04-05-2008, 02:23 PM
I have high expectations for jackson,hopefully he could emerge as the starting shortstop by 010,011 playing some great d and hopefully developing a bat

bomber0104
04-05-2008, 06:55 PM
Yeah Jackson is pretty tiny

jrice9
04-05-2008, 07:00 PM
Who is he more like izturis or young?

nstojic
04-05-2008, 07:38 PM
Ahrens with a 2/5 day batting in 3 runs... would like to see him take more walks, in time.. .500 hitter at this point, call him up!!!!! lol psych! good for him though and good for the jays... for the first time in a looooong while, i'm interested in their prospects and want to see them succeed... especially purcey and romero, moreso romero cause we could've had Troy T but took ricky instead

nstojic
04-05-2008, 07:45 PM
Who is he more like izturis or young?

that's tough, his ceiling could probably be jeter-esque... here's more on him
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/events/draft_report/y2007/index.jsp?mc=jackson

http://www.brewerfan.net/ViewAmateurPlayerProfile.do?playerId=670&draftId=5

jrice9
04-05-2008, 08:16 PM
Jeter isnt a good fielder though probabally more like st.louis renteria type player

nstojic
04-05-2008, 08:34 PM
a moment ago, snider hits his first homerun, solo shot... armando benitez comes in for an inning and strikes out the side...

nstojic
04-05-2008, 08:36 PM
Jeter isnt a good fielder though probabally more like st.louis renteria type player

haha, i'd be happy with anything resembling those two.. in a few years, ahrens at third, jackson at short, hill the vet at second, first base?

jrice9
04-05-2008, 08:41 PM
snyder? or lind?

nstojic
04-05-2008, 08:52 PM
snyder? or lind?

right right right, forgot... unless they trade lind, he may end there cause his defense in LF is mediocre at best... Snider will probably end up as the DH but him at 1st reminds me of jim thome for some reason, similar build but shorter

jrice9
04-05-2008, 08:55 PM
Either that or one of the lf 1b or dh spots will have to be brought in via free agency

nstojic
04-05-2008, 08:59 PM
Either that or one of the lf 1b or dh spots will have to be brought in via free agency

yah, that's true... if AJ opts out i think they should spend that money on LF... I wonder what holes they'll be drafting for this year... probably evenly split between pitching and position players... maybe JP will just take the best player available, regardless of position...

jrice9
04-05-2008, 09:24 PM
If Aj opts out I make a run at a top pitcher to have a dominant rotation

WillRain
04-05-2008, 09:53 PM
yah, that's true... if AJ opts out i think they should spend that money on LF... I wonder what holes they'll be drafting for this year... probably evenly split between pitching and position players... maybe JP will just take the best player available, regardless of position...

No.

SS or, less likely, C

LF is FAR less a hole in '09 than SS and C

Same for the proposition of signing a pitcher.

that's madness when a #4 like Silva gets 8 figures.

We HAVE a denominate rotation, and when AJ opts out Purcey, more than likely, can step right in. Might spend a small amount on competition at #5, or look into trading for a neglected guy like Sean Marshall but DO NOT throw twice too much money for a half-assed guy.

jrice9
04-05-2008, 11:05 PM
Fine but the shortstop future is jackson right? so a shorterm future will either be eckstein for a couple more years or a big name guy like renteria or another small namer. The catching position will either be handed to a prospect or sign a small name guy like barajas

nstojic
04-05-2008, 11:25 PM
Fine but the shortstop future is jackson right? so a shorterm future will either be eckstein for a couple more years or a big name guy like renteria or another small namer. The catching position will either be handed to a prospect or sign a small name guy like barajas

the catching, they're hoping to bridge the gap to arencibia... a future platoon could be arencibia/jeroloman or diaz in place of one of those... i don't see thigpen anywhere, i haven't bought into his potential... one guy i'm glad to see somewhere else is Kevin Cash, got a close look at him friday night and that guy will never hit....

WillRain
04-06-2008, 12:34 AM
Fine but the shortstop future is jackson right? so a shorterm future will either be eckstein for a couple more years or a big name guy like renteria or another small namer. The catching position will either be handed to a prospect or sign a small name guy like barajas

No one has higher hopes for Jackson than me but it would be foolish to not assume at least a three year gap between Eckstien and jackson and that means, in my mind, big $$$ to Furcal, Rentiria, or Cabrera are better spent than big $$$ to a mediocre pitcher who only needs to be third or fourth best on your team.

There isn't a big money catcher this coming of season unless Johjima hits the market, so I tend to think SS will soak up the money from Burnett and more.

Reminder to all: once you figure in contracted raises and assume all free agents depart, the net salary in play is about 6.5 million.

so if we sign a SS better than Eckstien or Lopez, we will have to riase the payroll. Ditto if we sign a pitcher that's anything more than a "risk/reward" signing.

We could probably add a Michael Barrett behind the plate for that with some to spare, but not we'd have to go cheap elsewhere. Still, I think for a Furcal type we could see the payroll increased, especially if we are as successful in 2008 as i think we will be.

nstojic
04-06-2008, 12:35 AM
heads up folks, BJ Ryan pitched an inning in saturdays Dunedin game, gave up one hit.. that's all.. no walks no K's.. should get something to read on how he felt, soon...

jrice9
04-06-2008, 07:41 AM
No one has higher hopes for Jackson than me but it would be foolish to not assume at least a three year gap between Eckstien and jackson and that means, in my mind, big $$$ to Furcal, Rentiria, or Cabrera are better spent than big $$$ to a mediocre pitcher who only needs to be third or fourth best on your team.

There isn't a big money catcher this coming of season unless Johjima hits the market, so I tend to think SS will soak up the money from Burnett and more.

Reminder to all: once you figure in contracted raises and assume all free agents depart, the net salary in play is about 6.5 million.

so if we sign a SS better than Eckstien or Lopez, we will have to riase the payroll. Ditto if we sign a pitcher that's anything more than a "risk/reward" signing.

We could probably add a Michael Barrett behind the plate for that with some to spare, but not we'd have to go cheap elsewhere. Still, I think for a Furcal type we could see the payroll increased, especially if we are as successful in 2008 as i think we will be.
Uncle Ted may raise the payroll slightley allowing it to be even more.

Plat
04-06-2008, 08:58 AM
Do the Jays have any prospects that have a very good chance of becoming a perrenial all star?

Halladay
04-06-2008, 09:05 AM
^^We have a bunch of specs that could be all-stars. Tolisano, Jackson, Ahrens, Eiland, Purcey,Snider,Cecil, Romero...all these guys could be great but most are teenagers still. Most of them are still atleast 3 or 4 years away from making the club minus Snider and Purcey.

Roy31
04-06-2008, 01:00 PM
Or we could do what seems like most teams are doing now a days. Bring them up early. But were a good team we dont need a rookie in the lineup that is going to bat around .200 ...

Halladay
04-06-2008, 02:07 PM
The only position prospect we have that's ready to come up now is Lind and I don't think he's even considered a prospect anymore. Basically, all our position prospects are very far away from being with the big club. I have no idea what the deal is with Thigpen and Diaz. Is Thigpen even considered a part of the future anymore? What's his role? JP isn't very high on him anymore.

Roy31
04-06-2008, 04:15 PM
I think the main 'young' guys we should look at playing and I use that term loosely are Brandon League, Adam Lind, and Thigpen. Shouldn't give up on these guys.

Plat
04-06-2008, 04:52 PM
I was wondering because I look at the top 100 or 150 prospects and there is usually just TWO Jay's prospects on there, kinda scary isnt it?

nstojic
04-06-2008, 05:37 PM
I think the main 'young' guys we should look at playing and I use that term loosely are Brandon League, Adam Lind, and Thigpen. Shouldn't give up on these guys.

speaking of which, 3 for 4 today with a couple of rib-eyes... batting .385 so far with a .471 OBP and 1 HR 4 RBI....

nstojic
04-06-2008, 05:40 PM
disappointing first start for ricky romero (AA) today... stats here http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Romero%20%28L%2C%200-1%29&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=460069

looking for big things from this guy... JP would love for him to be the 2 guy one day

nstojic
04-06-2008, 05:44 PM
today at advanced A-ball, one of our cuban pitching prospects... Kenny Rodriguez pitched a rain-shortened 6 innings, allowing 1 hit, no walks, 7 K's... nice, it'd be nice to have a decent cuban prospect of our own for once...

nstojic
04-06-2008, 05:47 PM
that venezualen outfield prospect i was talking about, Yohermyn Chavez... 2 HR's 5 RBI's in a game today for Lansing (A-ball, team with jackson, ahrens)
hitting .471, 8 for 17

Roy31
04-06-2008, 05:50 PM
impressive.

Plat
04-06-2008, 05:59 PM
how old is this chavez guy?

nstojic
04-06-2008, 06:31 PM
how old is this chavez guy?

turned 19 a few months ago
http://www.lansinglugnuts.com/the_team/2008_players/chavez.html

Oilslick18
04-06-2008, 08:07 PM
Plus...Ahrens is hitting .500 after 4 games with the same team. lansing is dominating early this year with a bunch of potent bats.

nstojic
04-06-2008, 08:41 PM
Plus...Ahrens is hitting .500 after 4 games with the same team. lansing is dominating early this year with a bunch of potent bats.

if all those guys stay there, that team will mash the ball all year

nstojic
04-06-2008, 08:47 PM
the AA offence looks the weakest right now... (A) has ahrens, jackson, tolisano, and chavez.... (advanced A) has snider, arencibia, emaus.. (AAA) has lind, diaz, thigpen, cannon, adams, santos, inglett.... that leaves (AA).. weak hitting.. patterson, kratz, jeroloman... not much else...

WillRain
04-06-2008, 09:28 PM
I was wondering because I look at the top 100 or 150 prospects and there is usually just TWO Jay's prospects on there, kinda scary isnt it?

When you consider that once you get out of the top 30 or so prospects it's a virtual crap shoot who succeeds anyway (something between 15 and 20% on average turn out to be players worthy of having been a "top prospect) it really isn't that huge a think, IMHO.

nstojic
04-08-2008, 01:43 AM
about the cuban pitcher i mentioned earlier
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080406&content_id=381213&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp

tuck25
04-08-2008, 02:32 AM
about the cuban pitcher i mentioned earlier
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080406&content_id=381213&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp

Hmmm very interesting, never heard of this guy.

bomber0104
04-08-2008, 04:53 PM
seems like a lot of good news early

jrice9
04-08-2008, 05:02 PM
Is this cuban guy have the stuff or smarts to be a major leaguer?

bidi_nash
04-08-2008, 06:37 PM
about the cuban pitcher i mentioned earlier
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080406&content_id=381213&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp

Its nice to see weve got some pitchin besides the mlb

WillRain
04-08-2008, 07:23 PM
wrong thread lol

jrice9
04-08-2008, 07:24 PM
Its nice to see weve got some pitchin besides the mlb
I agree but the real names you should focus on are cecil,romero, and purcey

nstojic
04-08-2008, 08:28 PM
speaking of purcey, he started tonights game for the skychiefs... went 6 innings, gave up 2 runs, struck out 7... back-to-back solid starts to start the season... sick of watching AJ have it, then lose it, then have it, then lose it, then injure himself... maybe halfway through we trade AJ for a LF and bring in Purcey, bump mcgowan and marcum to 2 and 3, leave litcsh at 5...

jrice9
04-08-2008, 08:59 PM
trade aj for some good spects and a solid pitcher like a 4 and then go out and sign bonds

fatkev78
04-09-2008, 10:41 AM
Purcey's #'s so far:

1 Win, 0 Losses, 1.50 ERA, 12 IP, 8 Hits, 2 ER, 0 HR, 4BB, 14 K's, .186 BAA

It's only 12 innings, but WoW!

Halladay
04-09-2008, 03:16 PM
I heard an interesting analysis the other day on the Score I believe I was watching. They mentioned that they went down to the Dominican, Cuba and a few other Latin American countries and noticed how bad the fields are and how especially brutal the infields are and they came to the conclusion that this is why we see so many great young infielders come from Latin countries. You look around the league and although a small percentage of the league is Latin American, most of the players a very,very good. It got me thinking, why have the Blue Jays essentially given up on scouting Latin players? They've had success finding Latin players before and I don't see any more of a risk signing a Latin player as oppose to an American or Canadian player. You can even see it in our farm system today; with Diaz and Chavez along with a few others, the few Latin players we've signed are turning out to be better prospects then some of our recent first round picks. You can even look around the league and see how many great Latin players they're are-Pujols, Rios, Delgado, J.Reyes, Hanley Ramirez, Ortiz, Man-Ram, Soriano, Santana, Liriano, The Molina brothers, Ordonez, Carmona etc etc etc.

nstojic
04-09-2008, 04:04 PM
I heard an interesting analysis the other day on the Score I believe I was watching. They mentioned that they went down to the Dominican, Cuba and a few other Latin American countries and noticed who bad the fields are and how especially brutal the infields are and they came to the conclusion that this is why we see so many great young infielders come from Latin countries. You look around the league and although a small percentage of the league is Latin American, most of the players a very,very good. It got me thinking, why have the Blue Jays essentially given up on scouting Latin players? They've had success finding Latin players before and I don't see any more of a risk signing a Latin player as oppose to an American or Canadian player. You can even see it in our farm system today; with Diaz and Chavez along with a few others, the few Latin players we've signed are turning out to be better prospects then some of our recent first round picks. You can even look around the league and see how many great Latin players they're are-Pujols, Rios, Delgado, J.Reyes, Hanley Ramirez, Ortiz, Man-Ram, Soriano, Santana, Liriano, The Molina brothers, Ordonez, Carmona etc etc etc.

i agree.. there's not many but the ones here are, for the most part, pretty good players... plus, with all those people, how can china not produce better talent?

nstojic
04-10-2008, 05:10 PM
lind 4 for 4 today.. so far the stats are: 13 for 29 .448 .448 avg, .522 obp, 2 hr, 9 rbi,

he's old enough, bring him up, let him develop...

Oilslick18
04-10-2008, 06:12 PM
lind 4 for 4 today.. so far the stats are: 13 for 29 .448 .448 avg, .522 obp, 2 hr, 9 rbi,

he's old enough, bring him up, let him develop...

Couldn't agree more...would fit in beautifully in the #2 hole and better defence than Stairs.

nstojic
04-10-2008, 06:42 PM
Couldn't agree more...would fit in beautifully in the #2 hole and better defence than Stairs.

i know, they're ****ing around too much with this guy... he's not getting any younger, what's he gonna learn from hitting .350+ down at AAA, stairs and stewart are just band-aids... at least lind has yet to reach his potential... he can learn the hard way, by playing everyday at the major league level

WillRain
04-10-2008, 07:17 PM
Couldn't agree more...would fit in beautifully in the #2 hole and better defence than Stairs.

Said it in the other thread but I'll say it here too for this conversation -

We do need Lind up (but it'll prob be another month or more before the Jays agree with us at least - but we do NOT need him in the 2.

We already have, when Rolen comes back, more top-of-the-order hitters than we can accommodate. There's no way a guy like Hill needs to be the #8 so that an inexperienced kid can hit second. Rolen or Hill at #2 and Lind at #8 where there's less pressure.

jrice9
04-10-2008, 07:26 PM
I agree when he reaches the majors we have to ease him into the order 8,9 hole to start

nstojic
04-12-2008, 08:37 PM
what we've allll been waiting for.. ricky romero with a good start today, didn't pick up the W but the line: 8 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 5 K.... keep it going!!! hopefully, him and purcey have awesome seasons, realize their potential.. and next years rotation is halladay, mcgowan, marcum, purcey, romero!!! trade litcsh and some prospects for SS help....

con_artist
04-12-2008, 08:53 PM
what we've allll been waiting for.. ricky romero with a good start today, didn't pick up the W but the line: 8 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 5 K.... keep it going!!! hopefully, him and purcey have awesome seasons, realize their potential.. and next years rotation is halladay, mcgowan, marcum, purcey, romero!!! trade litcsh and some prospects for SS help....

yeah, hopefully he can prove that taking him over tulowitzki wasnt one of the biggest mistakes ever

nstojic
04-12-2008, 09:22 PM
yeah, hopefully he can prove that taking him over tulowitzki wasnt one of the biggest mistakes ever

tulowitzki would have been amazing for us... we needed a shortstop too.. stupid russ adams, ruined it.. he's soooo the joey graham of the jays hahaha... just as aj burnett is the TJ ford of the jays, expensive, injury prone, given that aj has reached his ceiling and tj, argueably, has yet to do that... both guys are sooo inconsistant

WillRain
04-12-2008, 10:18 PM
yeah, hopefully he can prove that taking him over tulowitzki wasnt one of the biggest mistakes ever

With all due respect to Tulo, it's not even close...it's not even JP's biggest (that would be Adams taken with Kazmir, Swisher, Hamels, Franceour, Cain, and others were still on the board.

Some other interesting first round choices (since the Jays have existed):

1977: Bill Gullickson #2, Paul Molitor #3
1978: Cal Ripkin #48 (Jays took Mosbey at #2 and Tim Thompson at #28
1979: Jays take C Jay Schroder at #3, Andy Van Slyke - #6, Tim Wallach - #10
1980: Jays picked twice before Dan Pleasc went at #41 (both failed to make the majors) - useless trivia: Both Kelly Gruber (#10) and John Gibbons (#24) were first rounders in 1980
1981: Langston at #35 and Viola at #37 after two wasted Jays picks.
1982: Here's a contender for "worst ever" - at least worst ever by the jays, and keep in mind this is the vaunted Pat Gillick in charge:
#2 Jays - Augie Schmidt
#5 Mets - Dwight Gooden

1983: or maybe this one...
#9 Jays - Matt Stark
#19 Red Sox - Some guy named Clemens

1984: Maddux - #31, Glavine - #47
1985: White Sox took Kurt Brown at 5, Bonds went #6; Jays take Greg David at #25, Randy Johnson goes #36
1986: nothing worth mentioning here
1987: Jays took Alex Sanchez at #17, Craig Biggio went 22, Albert Belle 47

Kinda getting bored with that, so lets look at Gillick's record - Top 10 picks each year produced these players worth noticing:
1978 - Mosbey (1) Steib (5)
1979: Nobody
1980: Nobody
1981: Cerutti (1)
1982: Wells (2), Keys (3), Borders (6)
1983: Glenallen Hill (9)
1984: Myers (3)
1985: Nobody
1986: Hentgen (5)
1987: D. Bell (2), Timlin (5)
1988: Sprauge (1), Weathers (3)
1989: Olerud (3)
1990: Karsay (1)
1991: Green (1)
1992: Stewart (1)
1993: Carpenter (1)
1994: Nobody

18 impact players in 17 years.

From a guy considered one of the great GMs and for a team that ran of 11 straight winning seasons.

Remember that the next time you obsess over draft picks.

nstojic
04-12-2008, 10:53 PM
With all due respect to Tulo, it's not even close...it's not even JP's biggest (that would be Adams taken with Kazmir, Swisher, Hamels, Franceour, Cain, and others were still on the board.


yah, i did a summary on here, somewhere, of JP's 5 or 6 drafts.. we missed tons of guys... the russ adams one was probably the worst of JP's tenure... hindsight is always 20/20... especially the baseball draft... soooo many rounds.. i'd say hockey is up there too, in regards to being a crapchute! anyway, on a different topic.. can't wait to get scott back at 3B so we can start 'rolen'... get it? 'rolen'? yah, you get it, :rimshot:

con_artist
04-12-2008, 11:12 PM
Alright, it wasnt the biggest mistake ever but i always remember it because i know we were scouting tulo and he got taken the pick after ours

blujaysrock
04-13-2008, 01:51 PM
Robinzon Diaz! call him up, he doing very well and is alot better than zaun ,, well it dont take much to be better than zaun.

jrice9
04-13-2008, 02:01 PM
Zaun is underrated and their really is no room for diaz unless we designate either barajas or zaun for assignment which they wont do. BTW what are diaz's stats

con_artist
04-13-2008, 02:03 PM
Zaun is underrated and their really is no room for diaz unless we designate either barajas or zaun for assignment which they wont do. BTW what are diaz's stats

zaun is heavily underrated and i would like to see diaz (http://www.baseballamerica.com/statistics/players/cards/?pl_id=82796) play more games before we call him up

jrice9
04-13-2008, 02:09 PM
I agree and his career minor stats http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=3955 havnt been that good since 03. He has played lots of games and will get a chance at the job next year

JaysFan87
04-13-2008, 02:40 PM
Robinzon Diaz! call him up, he doing very well and is alot better than zaun ,, well it dont take much to be better than zaun.

He seems like a good hitter but he doesn't nearly walk enough.....

i love his hitting so far this year...a .435 AVg is amazing and has hit at or above 300 for most of his minor league career, however he has never had an OBP of higher than .350 since he was in rookie ball.

if he learns to become a little more patient then he will be a very good major leaguer for a long time.....

WillRain
04-13-2008, 04:18 PM
Take a gander, if you haven't already, at 23 year old AA second baseman Scott Campbell who's got a SMOKIN line of...

.517 - .517 - .724 - 1.241 in his first 29 AB and only has 2 K.

Who IS this guy? He hails from New Zealand, and went to Gonzaga but did ANYONE see this coming?

I know, it's early and small sample size and all that....still, one to watch.

Halladay
04-13-2008, 05:57 PM
Oh man Im so sick of hearing about Tulo. Take him out of Coors and see how he does. If your going to be mad about anything be mad about giving up on Michael Young.

JaysFan87
04-13-2008, 05:58 PM
Oh man Im so sick of hearing about Tulo. Take him out of Coors and see how he does. If your going to be mad about anything be mad about giving up on Michael Young.

agreed, i would be more upset losing someone we had rather then someone we never drafted.....

nstojic
04-13-2008, 06:35 PM
Take a gander, if you haven't already, at 23 year old AA second baseman Scott Campbell who's got a SMOKIN line of...

.517 - .517 - .724 - 1.241 in his first 29 AB and only has 2 K.

Who IS this guy? He hails from New Zealand, and went to Gonzaga but did ANYONE see this coming?

I know, it's early and small sample size and all that....still, one to watch.

he was 3 for 4 today... up to .545

nstojic
04-13-2008, 06:36 PM
purcey with another strong 7 innings today, he's now 2-0.... get burnett outta here...

T.O. Fan
04-14-2008, 08:45 AM
Don't get too high on DP yet. He started strong last year too. Though his start is very encouraging.

Adam Lind is ripping it up in AAA as well.

Another interesting prospect is Johermyn Chavez at A Lansing.

tuck25
04-14-2008, 01:22 PM
Robinzon Diaz! call him up, he doing very well and is alot better than zaun ,, well it dont take much to be better than zaun.

:laugh: I totally agree, put in Barajas, Bring up someone, doesn't really matter who, and Shoot Zaun.

tuck25
04-14-2008, 01:28 PM
Oh man Im so sick of hearing about Tulo. Take him out of Coors and see how he does. If your going to be mad about anything be mad about giving up on Michael Young.

You are so right. Get over someone we never had, and so far this year Tulo is looking so hot, .187AVG i think. Maybe, like lots of rookies he is done. Remember Hinske's rookie year, then what, Pop up to the infield.(but he is OK so far with TB). Now Michael Young, yep missed that one.****

Halladay
04-14-2008, 05:17 PM
Yeah and JP traded Young for Loaiza. At the time it probably didn't seem like a bad trade, obviously now it seems horrible. It's one thing to get mad about a player we gave up, it's another thing to get worked up about a player we never drafted. How many teams passed on Tulo? Hell, how many teams passed on Albert Pujols? The list goes on...the draft is a crapshoot, we all know this.

con_artist
04-14-2008, 07:28 PM
Yeah and JP traded Young for Loaiza. At the time it probably didn't seem like a bad trade, obviously now it seems horrible. It's one thing to get mad about a player we gave up, it's another thing to get worked up about a player we never drafted. How many teams passed on Tulo? Hell, how many teams passed on Albert Pujols? The list goes on...the draft is a crapshoot, we all know this.

Loaiza was especially horrible cuz the year after we let him go, he came second in CY voting and had the only good year of his career, it looked like we made a big mistake but now he sucks again and i find it ironic that doc beat him for the CY

T.O. Fan
04-15-2008, 04:08 PM
Yeah and JP traded Young for Loaiza. At the time it probably didn't seem like a bad trade, obviously now it seems horrible. It's one thing to get mad about a player we gave up, it's another thing to get worked up about a player we never drafted. How many teams passed on Tulo? Hell, how many teams passed on Albert Pujols? The list goes on...the draft is a crapshoot, we all know this.

I am pretty sure that it was Gord Ash that shipped Young to the Rangers for Loaiza.

Halladay
04-15-2008, 04:25 PM
I am pretty sure that it was Gord Ash that shipped Young to the Rangers for Loaiza.

You actually might be right. If I remember correctly, they traded Young in the year 2000 and JP became GM in what, 2001? Either way, that trade was awful.

JaysFan87
04-15-2008, 04:52 PM
Yupp!!
it was ash who sent him to texas

July 19, 2000: Traded by the Toronto Blue Jays with Darwin Cubillan to the Texas Rangers for Esteban Loaiza

http://www.baseball-reference.com/y/youngmi02.shtml

nstojic
04-15-2008, 10:35 PM
that Kyle Ginley kid i was talking about from last years draft.. he's at A ball.. had a good game tonight, 6.2 IP, 8 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 10 K's.... on the season, he's 2-0, 1.53 ERA, 17.2 IP, 3 ER, 3 BB, 21 K... keep the prospects coming, Snider hit a HR tonight, JP arencibia hit one too in the same game... he's hitting .300 with 3 HR and 11 RBI's to this point...

JaysFan87
04-15-2008, 10:41 PM
lind went 3-5 tonight with a homer improving his AVG to .391 and adding to his HR and RBI totals - 18 hits 3 HR and 13 RBi in 46 AB

WillRain
04-15-2008, 11:10 PM
I think that the minor league pitching is setting up good for promotions later.

At some point Purcey comes up for AJ's usual summer break, Romero to AAA, Cecil/Rodruigez to AA, Ginley to Duniden....

I really hope that all these hot starts can continue and lead to a real re-evaluation of the quality of our system by the end of the year.

WillRain
04-15-2008, 11:18 PM
could someone hook me up with the link for these "tonight's game" stats you guys cite?

bomber0104
04-15-2008, 11:32 PM
minorleaguebaseball.com has everything

nstojic
04-15-2008, 11:43 PM
lind went 3-5 tonight with a homer improving his AVG to .391 and adding to his HR and RBI totals - 18 hits 3 HR and 13 RBi in 46 AB

they just want him to win an MVP down at AAA like he did at AA... THEN, maybe... he can come up and be our last bench guy:horse:

nstojic
04-15-2008, 11:45 PM
I think that the minor league pitching is setting up good for promotions later.

At some point Purcey comes up for AJ's usual summer break, Romero to AAA, Cecil/Rodruigez to AA, Ginley to Duniden....

I really hope that all these hot starts can continue and lead to a real re-evaluation of the quality of our system by the end of the year.

:laugh::cheers:

WillRain
04-16-2008, 12:00 AM
I'm now officially on the LIND NOW! Bandwagon. I love ya Shannon but yer yesterday, we need to get busy with tomorrow.

Halladay
04-16-2008, 01:04 AM
Nice to see Arencebia is doing well. Im probably the biggest hater of that pick on this forum. Also, how is Eiland doing?

JaysFan87
04-16-2008, 01:13 AM
i realize that if someone young is tearing up the minors the way lind is then you shoudl do everything in ur power to bring him up....but logically how do u bring him up???

u committed to take only 12 pitchers so u ont send any of the bullpen guys down for lind
then u have thomas rios, wells, overbay, Hill, Eck, Scutaro, Zaun and barajas who are not going anywhere..
so thats leaves at most 4 spots in the lineup where u might have some options but....

More than likely Stairs isn't going anywhere
Ditto with Mac

Down to 2 spots left

Stew, Inglett,

Now conceivable u can if u like bring up Lind for Inglett but that leaves u with 5 capable outfielders plus u then have to make room for Rolen when he comes of the DL.

Realistically i dont see Lind coming up here unless one fo two things happen

1. An injury happens and that player is out for a significant time period of time.
or
2. The team as a whole is slumpping to a point where they need a shake up.


Other than that i dont see anyway he comes up here. if the team is continuing to win and fight with the yankees and red soxs then there is no reason to upset the balance in teh clubhouse. On the other hand if the team is struggling then Lind could be the youngin that lights a fuse underneath the vets....

nstojic
04-16-2008, 04:01 PM
^^ i agree that we're trying to be a top contending club and those clubs generally don't have young 'rookie' type guys starting but I feel lind should be starting in LF ahead of stairs and stewart.... let him hit 9th....

nstojic
04-16-2008, 04:38 PM
Nice to see Arencebia is doing well. Im probably the biggest hater of that pick on this forum. Also, how is Eiland doing?

I'm not sure what they're doing with him, he's not on any of their minor league rosters... maybe they'll play him in the gulf coast league again (the short season) with the '08 draft picks...

WillRain
04-16-2008, 06:28 PM
He's at extended ST waiting for the short season to start...not sure if that's an injury thing or what.

WillRain
04-16-2008, 07:21 PM
Realistically i dont see Lind coming up here unless one fo two things happen

1. An injury happens and that player is out for a significant time period of time.
or
2. The team as a whole is slumpping to a point where they need a shake up.


Other than that i dont see anyway he comes up here. if the team is continuing to win and fight with the yankees and red soxs then there is no reason to upset the balance in teh clubhouse. On the other hand if the team is struggling then Lind could be the youngin that lights a fuse underneath the vets....

I agree with your analysis except to add:

3. Stewart struggles so badly to stay over .700 that the team eventually "cuts bait" on him and calls up lind (and it would take most of half a season for them to do that I think)

4. the team finds a convenient opportunity to trade Stewart to a team who (by virtue of injuries presumably) finds themselves shorthanded.

WillRain
04-16-2008, 07:22 PM
^^ i agree that we're trying to be a top contending club and those clubs generally don't have young 'rookie' type guys starting but I feel lind should be starting in LF ahead of stairs and stewart.... let him hit 9th....

Starting, yes I agree, but not hitting second. Hill is our #2 and Lind should be in a low pressure spot like #8.

nstojic
04-16-2008, 11:09 PM
Starting, yes I agree, but not hitting second. Hill is our #2 and Lind should be in a low pressure spot like #8.

i agree, that's hill's to lose.... guys like lind, you conceal at the end of the order and leave the bigger names 1-6... like the yankees do with melky

JaysFan87
04-16-2008, 11:36 PM
not to alarm anyone but Lind went 0-4 tonight with 2 strikeouts...that in itself is not that bad considering his start but its worth noting that it was against a lefty which has always been the knock on him....

JaysFan87
04-16-2008, 11:37 PM
in the same game league pitched 1.2 innings and struck out 2 and walking only one...

WillRain
04-17-2008, 03:24 AM
My Man Justin Jackson went 4 for 5 tonight with a double and a triple to run his line to:

.311 - .446 - .511 - .958

:clap:

jrice9
04-17-2008, 10:16 AM
what league is jackson in right now?

Halladay
04-17-2008, 04:48 PM
Nice. Jackson is the SS of the future. I think he's playing A-ball at the moment, he's only 18 or 19 so he shouldn't be in a league higher then double AA.

bomber0104
04-19-2008, 12:49 AM
I guess i'll do the minors update since no one has done it for a while.

AAA- Syracuse won their fourth in a row improving to 9-7 on the season. Russ Adams playing right field, hit his 3rd HR of the season and is batting .292. Not much good news from AAA. Thigpen is batting .180 and League allowed 2 ER in one inning of work. It also looks like Coats is done batting .077.

Lind did not play but his line remains .360 AVG, 3HR, 13 RBIs.


AA New Hamphsire are having a terrible year with a record at 3-11. The only bright spoit on the team is 2B Campbell from New zealand. He had 3 hits in tnoight's game and is batting .458 on the season. Seth Overbey pitched 2 innings in relief striking out 4 while lowering his ERA to 1.35.

A- Advanced Dunedin have managed to remain in first place with a 9-6 record despite a a 3 game loosing streak. Chacin took the last loss allowing 6 runs 3 earned in 5+ innings increasing his ERA to a terrible 8.49 (safe to say he is done). Snider went 0 for 2 and is only batting .268 for the year. Arencibia went 0-4 and is batting .250.

Snider's line is .268 AVG, 3 HR, 5 RBI. The scary part is that he has struck out 21 times in only 58 AB (more than third of times) while only walking 5 times. OUCH!!!

A Lansing have lost 3 in a row and are now 8-7 on the season.
Notable lines:
Jackson SS--- 1-4, R, batting .321
Ahrens 3B--- 2-4, R, batting .282
Tolisano--- 0-4, batting .231
Chavez--- 0-3, batting .294

DH and 1B Manuel Rodriguez has been a suprise batting .417 with 2HR and 17 RBIs. He is leading the Midwest league in AVG and RBIs.

Roy31
04-19-2008, 01:05 PM
I hope Russ Adams never sees the light of day in our outfield.

nstojic
04-19-2008, 04:07 PM
I guess i'll do the minors update since no one has done it for a while.


sorry, my car got broken into and my wallet was stolen along with some other stuff... been a pain getting everything back to normal... i'll be back on top of this soon

bomber0104
04-19-2008, 07:30 PM
sorry, my car got broken into and my wallet was stolen along with some other stuff... been a pain getting everything back to normal... i'll be back on top of this soon

I got no problem doing this when I got time

jrice9
04-19-2008, 11:38 PM
I hope snydercan get to aaa or at least aa by the end of the year

WillRain
04-20-2008, 12:53 AM
Names you may recognize and some you may not . . .

Adam Lind:
.360 - .411 - .640 - 1.051


Russ Adams last 10 games:
.343 - .477 - .564 - 1.041 (35 AB)
Overall:
.288 - .422 - .528 - .960

(Since Mighty Joe is on hand, not to mention Scooter, there's no opportunity here but he might hit well enough t convince some other team he has value as a throw in to a trade at some point)

Scott Campbell - Still rollin' at AA-
.460 - .509 - .580 - 1.089

Former Cub Prospect Brian Dopirak (playing LF tonight) in Dunedin-
.404 - .483 - .596 - 1.079 (52 AB)

If we start looking at this guy as an OF and not just a 1B, we may have to start taking him kinda seriously...)

Jackson (I know you know but I never get tired of singing his praises) -
.328 - .435 - .534 - .969 (58 ab)
still just 19 years old.

Raul Barron (22 y.o.) 3B in lansing:
.521 - .545 - .688 - 1.233 (32 ab)

Johermyn Chavez (19 y.o.)
.309 - .406 - .509 - .915

temper27
04-20-2008, 01:15 AM
It is dissapointing that Thigpen has been doing so poorly lately. Atleast Diaz seems to be doing well. Very happy Lind is doing well.

Adams in the OF? He will have a tougher time cracking the team in the OF in the future then he already had in the IF probably. Or maybe this is part of the plan to make him the super-utility sub who can play both IF and OF in desperation to find a spot for him on the team somehow in the future?

nstojic
04-20-2008, 01:29 AM
It is dissapointing that Thigpen has been doing so poorly lately. Atleast Diaz seems to be doing well. Very happy Lind is doing well.

Adams in the OF? He will have a tougher time cracking the team in the OF in the future then he already had in the IF probably. Or maybe this is part of the plan to make him the super-utility sub who can play both IF and OF in desperation to find a spot for him on the team somehow in the future?

as much as i dislike adams, the jays've learned that you can't give up on first rounders... we gave up on young and texas is sure glad we did eh?

temper27
04-20-2008, 01:43 AM
as much as i dislike adams, the jays've learned that you can't give up on first rounders... we gave up on young and texas is sure glad we did eh?

Yeah I agree. I think that is why they seem to be trying anything they can think of with him now.

WillRain
04-20-2008, 01:51 AM
Adams' versatility can only increase his marginal trade value - I'd already rather have him on the team as everyone's pal Buck Coats but there really isn't room for either of them.

But he might be the difference maker if you were trading say Frasor for something he might work his reputation back to the point he'd be considered to have some "throw in" value.

Diaz did start hot but over the last 3-4 games he's begun to cool. I don't know what to make of Thigpen, I think he's decided that the team doesn't believe in him any longer and his play reflects that.

WillRain
04-20-2008, 01:53 AM
as much as i dislike adams, the jays've learned that you can't give up on first rounders... we gave up on young and texas is sure glad we did eh?

I don't think the team "gave up on" Young, they just thought they had something in Lopez and made a dumb deal.

nstojic
04-20-2008, 07:16 PM
so, rolen goes 0 for 3... snider hits his 4th HR and arencibia hits his 4th HR.. the interesting guy is the closer at dunedin... Zach Dials 6 SV so far, 7 IP, 5 H, 1 BB, 9 K.. 1.29 era

jrice9
04-21-2008, 10:22 AM
how is cecil and romero doing?

WillRain
04-21-2008, 02:54 PM
Cecil is still pitching short starts of 2-3 innings...but doing well.

Romero is up and down, bad start > great start > poor start...

nstojic
04-21-2008, 08:31 PM
UPDATES!!!!!!

Lind back! went 2 for 4.. batting .370 now, call'im up!

League today: 2 IP, 2 ER, 3 BB, 1 K.. what happened to this guy?!?!

Snider is at AA now!!!!! first game today went 1 for 3 with a run scored... i hope they're not rushing this guy, he hit .279 at dunedin (Advanced A ball)...

no rolen today at dunedin, even though they said they'd let him play 3 straight games, odd.... negative response to playing yesterday? possibly...

WillRain
04-22-2008, 12:23 AM
Take note of the other romero!


Davis Romero, recovering from TJ surgery, is now sporting a 1.54 ERA after 4 starts and opposing hitters are hitting .111 off him.


Kyle Ginley worked another 5 innings without an earned run tonight lowering his ERA to 1.19

JaysFan87
04-22-2008, 12:31 AM
a guy going under the radar for some reason is Overbey..
he flew through the ranks last year going form Lansing to dunedin, to New Hampshire.

he struggled slightly last year at AA but it looks like he has regained his form....

6 G
9.2IP
10 SO
.93 WHIP

JaysFan87
04-22-2008, 12:34 AM
unknown commodity Scott Campbell continues to impress
his line reads
.444/.500/.566 in 15 games and 54 AB

Halladay
04-22-2008, 12:37 AM
Where's Eiland:cry:

JaysFan87
04-22-2008, 12:41 AM
extended spring training.....

Halladay
04-22-2008, 12:43 AM
Man oh man, Im still so high on Eiland and he's done nothing to really show us anything.

JaysFan87
04-22-2008, 12:45 AM
the man is still only 19, the wait and see approach seems to fit...

Halladay
04-22-2008, 12:48 AM
He has a ton of potential, he might be the most toolsy guy we've drafted in a while. I realize he's still a teenager but I'd atleast like to see some kind of improvement. I wonder if that leg injury he suffered a few years ago is still bothering him.

nstojic
04-22-2008, 07:57 AM
um, did no one read my post? SNIDER is in AA now!!!!! good? bad?

JaysFan87
04-22-2008, 08:01 AM
i saw it.....its too early to tell.....in a couple of weeks we will have an idea if it is a smart move...

jrice9
04-22-2008, 08:19 AM
he needed more of a challenge imo this may be a bit early buut i persoanlly think they want him in aaa by he end of the year and possible a septembre cll up

nstojic
04-22-2008, 09:24 AM
he needed more of a challenge imo this may be a bit early buut i persoanlly think they want him in aaa by he end of the year and possible a septembre cll up

yah but he wasn't exactly tearing it up in dunedin... .279 .333 .557 .891, 17 of 61, 4 HR, 7 RBI, 5 2B, only 5 BB's that puts him on pace for approx 53-55 BB's... not exactly an on-base machine...

jrice9
04-22-2008, 09:30 AM
really nice slugging my view is with an ops over 800 at any level promote hum after a good amount of games. his obp might increase at different levels as obp does not really have to do with different levels f ptiching if his average stays the same

nstojic
04-22-2008, 11:31 AM
really nice slugging my view is with an ops over 800 at any level promote hum after a good amount of games. his obp might increase at different levels as obp does not really have to do with different levels f ptiching if his average stays the same

this guy's a top 20 prospect, i guess i just expected better for some reason

jrice9
04-22-2008, 11:46 AM
an almost 900 ops is dominating the kid is ike what 19 and if he keeps this pace up to the majors he will be a 30-40 homerun kind who is a beter hitter than both wells and rios. his obp need work though

bomber0104
04-22-2008, 03:31 PM
Too early for that move. He has a terrible BB/K ratio. Something like 5/27

WillRain
04-22-2008, 07:13 PM
this guy's a top 20 prospect, i guess i just expected better for some reason

two words are relevant here:

Three.
Weeks.

bomber0104
04-23-2008, 01:10 AM
Lind with another 2-4 with 2 RBI's. Looks like someone is itching for a callup

jrice9
04-23-2008, 09:08 AM
nice btw will we send inglett (my favourite minor leaguer who is curently a jay cuz he is a nice guy)
down put scutero and mac at third till rolen comes back

JaysFan87
04-23-2008, 10:19 AM
nice btw will we send inglett (my favourite minor leaguer who is curently a jay cuz he is a nice guy)
down put scutero and mac at third till rolen comes back

its likely that Inglett will be sent down when Rolen gets back with the team and Diaz down for LIND. Originally it was supposed to be Lind but he had a stiff neck....

jrice9
04-23-2008, 10:27 AM
hmmm send diaz down for lind as soon as lind is healthy which he is

WillRain
04-23-2008, 09:37 PM
Ricky Romero continues his zig-zag pattern, pitching five innings of one run ball tonight.

JaysFan87
04-23-2008, 09:43 PM
Purcey seemed to have control problems tonight....

6IP 5 hits 4BB 9 SO but only 2 ER

JaysFan87
04-23-2008, 09:44 PM
snider had a 1-3 night with a walk....

JaysFan87
04-23-2008, 09:47 PM
and ifit means anyting...chacin went 6 innings allowing 2 runs on 8 hits while striking out 2

bomber0104
04-23-2008, 09:53 PM
and ifit means anyting...chacin went 6 innings allowing 2 runs on 8 hits while striking out 2

Its sad how far this guy has fallen

nstojic
04-23-2008, 11:56 PM
and ifit means anyting...chacin went 6 innings allowing 2 runs on 8 hits while striking out 2

lol, it doesn't... i never had much faith in that guy to begin with, he's a non-factor IMO

Halladay
04-24-2008, 02:37 AM
Chacin is pretty much completely worthless at this point. I know he's recovering from surgery but he hasn't done squat for years now. Im not even sure If he's considered a 'throw in' in a trade. He's basically our pitching version of Russ Adams.

bomber0104
04-24-2008, 11:30 PM
AAA--- Syracuse won their game 4-2. Lind had on pinch hit AB and got a hit.

AA---Snider went 0-3 with 2 k and 1 BB in a new Hamphshire loss. Overbey pitched 2.1 innings allowing 1 ER

Advanced-A--- Cecil started the game and went 3 innings allowing no runs while striking out 5. Arencibia went 1-4 with a run as Duneiden beat top prospect Rick Parcello 3-1.

A--- I'm not sure who this guy is but he continues to rake in the minors. Manuel Rodriguez is batting .438 with 2 HR, 20 RBI in only 16 Games.

nstojic
04-26-2008, 12:22 AM
really nice slugging my view is with an ops over 800 at any level promote hum after a good amount of games. his obp might increase at different levels as obp does not really have to do with different levels f ptiching if his average stays the same

so yah, so far this move is not working out... after tonight, he's 3 for 18... that's .167... his OBP is like .260 something... why did they have to **** with him...

JaysFan87
04-26-2008, 01:21 AM
so yah, so far this move is not working out... after tonight, he's 3 for 18... that's .167... his OBP is like .260 something... why did they have to **** with him...

umm what has it been???
a week since his promotion?? i think u need to relax, people who make those decisions are there for a reason....

nstojic
04-26-2008, 04:30 AM
umm what has it been???
a week since his promotion?? i think u need to relax, people who make those decisions are there for a reason....

yah, but like JP.. they sometimes they shouldn't be

JaysFan87
04-26-2008, 10:05 AM
yah, but like JP.. they sometimes they shouldn't be

but with that in mind they must have the smarts to be where they are and we don't considering where we are....

jrice9
04-26-2008, 11:07 AM
AAA--- Syracuse won their game 4-2. Lind had on pinch hit AB and got a hit.

AA---Snider went 0-3 with 2 k and 1 BB in a new Hamphshire loss. Overbey pitched 2.1 innings allowing 1 ER

Advanced-A--- Cecil started the game and went 3 innings allowing no runs while striking out 5. Arencibia went 1-4 with a run as Duneiden beat top prospect Rick Parcello 3-1.

A--- I'm not sure who this guy is but he continues to rake in the minors. Manuel Rodriguez is batting .438 with 2 HR, 20 RBI in only 16 Games.
why does cecil et such low innings

bomber0104
04-26-2008, 01:12 PM
why does cecil et such low innings

I pretty sure he was injured at the end of spring training so the Jays are trying to ease him into the rotation.

jrice9
04-26-2008, 01:36 PM
okay didnt know that

Halladay
04-26-2008, 04:28 PM
I pretty sure he was injured at the end of spring training so the Jays are trying to ease him into the rotation.

No I don't think it was because of an injury, I think it was because Cecil is a closer they're converting into a starter. You can't just take a guy who's used to pitching one inning a game and make him go 6/7/8 innings. They're trying to "stretch out his arm" so to speak.

bomber0104
04-26-2008, 06:31 PM
No I don't think it was because of an injury, I think it was because Cecil is a closer they're converting into a starter. You can't just take a guy who's used to pitching one inning a game and make him go 6/7/8 innings. They're trying to "stretch out his arm" so to speak.

I'm very positive that I read something about the injury after spring training. Your point is well taken except for the fact that he was a starter last year pitching 5 and 6 innings every game.

I'm pretty sure that the fact that he is a former reliever has something to do with him taking longer to stretch than regular starters after his injury.

WillRain
04-27-2008, 07:19 PM
Unheralded "nobody" Raul Barron continues to be SSSSmokin! at Lansing, he played SS 5 games in a row (Is Jackson hurt?) now sports a line of -

.426 .436 .556 .992

Another Lansing "non-prospect named Manny Rodriguez (1B/DH) sports this line:

.421 .436 .671 1.107
*****

Kyle Ginley now has a 0.89 ERA after last night, with 5 BB and 30 K in 30.1 IP
Nathan Staner threw 7 shutout innings today to drive his ERA down to 1.29 and he has a 4/26 BB/K ratio.

Then there's Kenny Rodruigez, the Cuba refugee in Dunedin who's given up 10 earned runs, but half of those in one outing. He has a 3.33 ERA but apart from that one awful start, it's 1.99. he has a 5/24 BB/K ratio in 27 IP and a .240 OBA overall.

****
Ryan Patterson went 4 for 4 today with a pair of doubles to run his line to
.313 .351 .493 .844

over the last ten games he's hitting .405.
I could get interested in seeing him spend the second half in Syracuse.

In fact, there seem to be several candidates throughout our system for aggressive promotion if they stay hot.

Besides those already mentioned (some a touch old for their level) there's former Cubs hot prospect Brian Dopirak who's 24 yo in Dunedin, he has a .350 BA and a .935 OPS. If he continues to slug and Kruzer continues to struggle in AA, then I think the Jays ought to push him and other guys who are perhaps a hair old for their levels along and see what they do.

And theirs Cody Crowell, a 22 year old lefty reliever at Lansing who has 17 K in 7.2 IP he has a 2.35 ERA and opposing hitters are hitting just .179 off him;

Or his teammate Edger Estranga, another 22 yo lefty who has yet to give up a run or walk a batter while posting 15 K in 15 IP and allowing a .125 OBA;

Zaunnie
04-27-2008, 07:32 PM
Whatever happened to Zack Jackson? He was our top prospect several years back and he was part of the Overbay trade

JaysFan87
04-27-2008, 07:45 PM
Whatever happened to Zack Jackson? He was our top prospect several years back and he was part of the Overbay trade

Thoroughly unimpressive...

2006 he had a stint with the brewers with a line reading
8 Games
7GS
2-2
ERA 5.40
ERA+ 84
WHIP 1.60

his minor league numbers were not that impressive either

06- 4.12 ERA 1.40 WHIP
07- 4.46 ERA 1.46 WHIP
08- 8.89 ERA 1.94 WHIP



not to write him off completely because he is still kinda young but if he doesn't show anything this year(he hasn't yet so i really don't think he will) he will be moved to the "bust" bin at ur local walmart.....

bomber0104
04-27-2008, 08:49 PM
Snider 0-4 today with 4 k. Ouch!!!!. I knew he was gonna struggle with k's in AA like he did in A. He has 16 K in 25 AB and is batting .120 which is awful for a top prospect.

Ricky Romero pitched 3 innings while striking out 4. I think his IP was low because there were rain delays.

Rodriguez is another player than I have kept my eye on. he is batting .421 with 2 HR and 23 RBI's in 19 Games

nstojic
04-27-2008, 10:00 PM
Snider 0-4 today with 4 k. Ouch!!!!. I knew he was gonna struggle with k's in AA like he did in A. He has 16 K in 25 AB and is batting .120 which is awful for a top prospect.

Ricky Romero pitched 3 innings while striking out 4. I think his IP was low because there were rain delays.

Rodriguez is another player than I have kept my eye on. he is batting .421 with 2 HR and 23 RBI's in 19 Games

i said the same thing but got told by jaysfan87 to relax

con_artist
04-27-2008, 10:09 PM
i said the same thing but got told by jaysfan87 to relax

thats because u cant judge someone after 25 ABs, its way too early for that

bomber0104
04-28-2008, 12:33 AM
thats because u cant judge someone after 25 ABs, its way too early for that

the problem is that it has actually been more like a 100 AB at 2 different levels. He has struck out about 40 times in these AB

JaysFan87
04-28-2008, 01:18 AM
i said the same thing but got told by jaysfan87 to relax

im glad ur listening.....:clap:

nstojic
04-28-2008, 09:22 AM
im glad ur listening.....:clap:

STFU, top prospects need to play like top prospects and i'll stand by that... like Lind, leave the guy at one level and let him get fairly dominant at that level before you promote him

Halladay
04-28-2008, 09:38 AM
Problem is, Lind is what, 25 years old? He's had a ton of time in the minors and hasn't panned out the way he people expected. It's simply unfair to expect teenagers to dominate at any level in the minors especially guys who came straight out of high school. I don't care if the guys name is Travis Snider our future all-star or Joe Schmoe, prospects are prospects and it doesn't matter whether baseball america has them as top prospects or not, we just need the system to produce young players and not rush them and put too much pressure on them too early in their careers.

jrice9
04-28-2008, 09:38 AM
your rate snyder is up here in like 013

nstojic
04-28-2008, 11:14 AM
Problem is, Lind is what, 25 years old? He's had a ton of time in the minors and hasn't panned out the way he people expected. It's simply unfair to expect teenagers to dominate at any level in the minors especially guys who came straight out of high school. I don't care if the guys name is Travis Snider our future all-star or Joe Schmoe, prospects are prospects and it doesn't matter whether baseball america has them as top prospects or not, we just need the system to produce young players and not rush them and put too much pressure on them too early in their careers.

that's exactly what i'm saying... leave him for half a season at A-ball.. he's from highschool for **** sake's... now they'll wonder why he's hitting .120 at AA and taking a beating to his confidance... with Lind, they should've given him the LF job last year, he progressed through the system like he was supposed to.. but when that time came to put him in.. they didn't do it consistantly enough and that put him in limbo... star at AAA or platoon at the major league level... personally, i'd rather take Lind starting in LF hitting 8th, 9th... over reed, stewart, stairs platoon.... reed is a decent starter, stewart is not what he used to be, stairs is an ideal DH who can spell overbay at 1st from time to time... if you think Lind is something, let him find it at the major league level, if there was a solid .280, 20 hrs, 80 rbi's over at LF, i'd understand why lind couldn't start but there isn't

nstojic
04-28-2008, 11:17 AM
your rate snyder is up here in like 013

no, not that late... 2010-2011... what does it matter how fast they get up here if they're not producing at the level they are currently at?? sure, bring him up today if he was hitting .400 with 10 hr's already at A ball...

WillRain
04-28-2008, 04:29 PM
STFU, no u

top prospects need to play like top prospects and i'll stand by that...

Thanks so much for settling it straight for us :rolleyes:

On the other hand...

ALL players have slumps sometimes - often slumps that last a month. That includes top prospects. Only a moron gets worried about an all star or a major prospect (with a solid history of kicking the *** of opposing pitchers) over one sub-standard month. And Snider has not a month, but SEVEN GAMES of weak performance. Do I really need to list off the all-star major leaguers who have 3 and 4 times that many at-bats this year sucking in a royal way?

Is it even possible to list all the major leaguers who strung together seven consecutive lousy games, to say nothing of the hot prospects who have?

Here's another clue - the guy has been nursing a sore shoulder all spring and is likely not 100% which is why he is DHing

Here's a third - the transition to a new level - particularly the one from A to AA - is almost always a challenging one and the LAST stat set you need to look at when evaluating a player is his first 50 AB at a new level.

Of course, though, all this is irrelevant and clearly we should be panicking and pointing fingers because a guy who's at a brand new level had seven lousy games, right?


the problem is that it has actually been more like a 100 AB at 2 different levels. He has struck out about 40 times in these AB
He also had an .891 OPS at Dunedin in those 60 AB so it's not remotely the same thing as what's going on in AA. Strikeouts don't mean a damn thing if you are productive offensively.

Hell, 14 K in 61 AB translates to 140 K over a 600 AB season....that's not remotely a worrisome rate for a slugger.

In other words - the discussion is about what's happening in AA and you are clouding the issue unnecessarily, as negativists tend to do.


Problem is, Lind is what, 25 years old? He's had a ton of time in the minors and hasn't panned out the way he people expected

How so?

what were you expecting?

When and where was Lind on the "best prospects in baseball" lists? A helluva a lot of good baseball players arrive in the majors around the age of 24 and go on to have fine, if not hall of fame, careers. Lind is pretty much exactly where he should be based on his minor league career. Yes, he stumbled last year for a couple of very gruesome months. But that's hardly enough to say he "hasn't panned out" unless someone was (unrealistically) expecting a rookie-of-the-year superstar campaign like Ryan Braun's or some such.

There's no reason to be disappointed in Lind's progress.


we just need the system to produce young players and not rush them and put too much pressure on them too early in their careers.

And we are prepared to bash the team for putting too much pressure on the guy based on his first 25 AB after a promotion?

The best prospects need to face challanges, if he's not getting challanged at one level you push them to the next one. That's how it has always worked. If they don't perform at the higher level, you slide them back and try again later. There's nothing at all going on here but the usual obsessively negative blame-the-team-first BS we see at the major league level.

As long as it's been since we have had a top 20 prospect in baseball in our system and leave it to some of you guys to forgo rejoicing in that and anticipating his arrival for knee-jerk depression about 25 lousy at bats.

bomber0104
04-28-2008, 04:51 PM
Hell, 14 K in 61 AB translates to 140 K over a 600 AB season....that's not remotely a worrisome rate for a slugger.



Its actually 22k in 61 AB which translates into 216 SO. No one said that they've given up on him but he should really be in Advanced-A. I liked the way they were advancing him in the beginning.

nstojic
04-28-2008, 05:18 PM
no u
Thanks so much for settling it straight for us :rolleyes:

On the other hand...

ALL players have slumps sometimes - often slumps that last a month. That includes top prospects. Only a moron gets worried about an all star or a major prospect (with a solid history of kicking the *** of opposing pitchers) over one sub-standard month. And Snider has not a month, but SEVEN GAMES of weak performance. Do I really need to list off the all-star major leaguers who have 3 and 4 times that many at-bats this year sucking in a royal way?

Is it even possible to list all the major leaguers who strung together seven consecutive lousy games, to say nothing of the hot prospects who have?

Here's another clue - the guy has been nursing a sore shoulder all spring and is likely not 100% which is why he is DHing

Here's a third - the transition to a new level - particularly the one from A to AA - is almost always a challenging one and the LAST stat set you need to look at when evaluating a player is his first 50 AB at a new level.

Of course, though, all this is irrelevant and clearly we should be panicking and pointing fingers because a guy who's at a brand new level had seven lousy games, right?


He also had an .891 OPS at Dunedin in those 60 AB so it's not remotely the same thing as what's going on in AA. Strikeouts don't mean a damn thing if you are productive offensively.

Hell, 14 K in 61 AB translates to 140 K over a 600 AB season....that's not remotely a worrisome rate for a slugger.

In other words - the discussion is about what's happening in AA and you are clouding the issue unnecessarily, as negativists tend to do.


How so?

what were you expecting?

When and where was Lind on the "best prospects in baseball" lists? A helluva a lot of good baseball players arrive in the majors around the age of 24 and go on to have fine, if not hall of fame, careers. Lind is pretty much exactly where he should be based on his minor league career. Yes, he stumbled last year for a couple of very gruesome months. But that's hardly enough to say he "hasn't panned out" unless someone was (unrealistically) expecting a rookie-of-the-year superstar campaign like Ryan Braun's or some such.

There's no reason to be disappointed in Lind's progress.


And we are prepared to bash the team for putting too much pressure on the guy based on his first 25 AB after a promotion?

The best prospects need to face challanges, if he's not getting challanged at one level you push them to the next one. That's how it has always worked. If they don't perform at the higher level, you slide them back and try again later. There's nothing at all going on here but the usual obsessively negative blame-the-team-first BS we see at the major league level.

As long as it's been since we have had a top 20 prospect in baseball in our system and leave it to some of you guys to forgo rejoicing in that and anticipating his arrival for knee-jerk depression about 25 lousy at bats.

all i'm saying is i would've left him at advanced A-ball.... calm the **** down...

WillRain
04-28-2008, 05:21 PM
The claim that he should have played longer in Dunedin is a perfectly rational "difference of opinion" - I don't think there is a cut and dried "right answer" on that.

But that simple justifiable opinion really doesn't justify some of the remarks made on the subject here.

bomber0104
04-28-2008, 10:23 PM
The claim that he should have played longer in Dunedin is a perfectly rational "difference of opinion" - I don't think there is a cut and dried "right answer" on that.

But that simple justifiable opinion really doesn't justify some of the remarks made on the subject here.

I'm sorry man but your posts are really becoming irritating. Not particularly in this thread but all around the forum

WillRain
04-28-2008, 10:57 PM
^^
Welcome to my world.

nstojic
04-29-2008, 06:11 PM
I'm sorry man but your posts are really becoming irritating. Not particularly in this thread but all around the forum

i agree, i can just picture him in front of his computer at home, foaming at the mouth after his tirade the other day.... telling his grandma, in the other room, that he's fine and it's nothing

JaysFan87
04-29-2008, 06:21 PM
i agree, i can just picture him in front of his computer at home, foaming at the mouth after his tirade the other day.... telling his grandma, in the other room, that he's fine and it's nothing

its funny how some people engage themselves in a sports discussion. The moment someone disagrees and shows that MAYBE they are not looking at the situation correctly they get defensive and go to personal insults without defending their argument.....just an observation....

Twitchy
04-29-2008, 06:26 PM
Ladies let's keep it civil. Let's not get down to silly little nonsensical insults.

Halladay
04-29-2008, 06:26 PM
its funny how some people engage themselves in a sports discussion. The moment someone disagrees and shows that MAYBE they are not looking at the situation correctly they get defensive and go to personal insults without defending their argument.....just an observation....

It's true. It's pretty childish and immature to start with the name calling but welcome to forums! lol. That's just the way it is.

WillRain
04-29-2008, 07:45 PM
i agree, i can just picture him in front of his computer at home, foaming at the mouth after his tirade the other day.... telling his grandma, in the other room, that he's fine and it's nothing

Whatever fantasy gets ya through the night, dude.

Who am I to judge what stirs your drink?

jrice9
04-29-2008, 07:58 PM
chillout guys no neeed for an internet brawl lol

nstojic
04-29-2008, 10:05 PM
room full of keyboard warriors... nothing new

JaysFan87
04-29-2008, 10:09 PM
^^^^like you??

nstojic
04-29-2008, 10:12 PM
so, while we're all squabbling here and the jays are busy losing 1-0 and wasting another Doc gem... the skychiefs are busy winning 1-0 today on the shoulders of future #2 Purcey... picks up the W today, sick line: 8 IP, 2 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 9 K awesome job of settling down after his last outing...

so, on the season:
3-1, 1.64 ERA, 33 IP, 19 H, 6 ER, 11 BB, 39 K, .168 OPP AVG

nstojic
04-29-2008, 10:13 PM
^^^^like you??

i'm just here to talk sports, not have a fancy av, personalized little quotes, fantasy rosters... etc...gay ****!

nstojic
04-29-2008, 10:15 PM
back to what this all started over, Snider today.. 0 for 3... now batting .107

nstojic
04-29-2008, 10:17 PM
Ricky Romero with another poor outing tonight, 3.1 IP, 7 H, 5 ER, 4 BB, 2 K

JaysFan87
04-29-2008, 10:19 PM
i'm just here to talk sports, not have a fancy av, personalized little quotes, fantasy rosters... etc...gay ****!

really?????


i agree, i can just picture him in front of his computer at home, foaming at the mouth after his tirade the other day.... telling his grandma, in the other room, that he's fine and it's nothing

^^^this does not seem to be someone who actually wants to discuss sports....this to me is someone who has his opinion and doesn't want to listen to anyone else and then *****es and cries when someone disagrees with them....but whatever floats ur boat i guess

nstojic
04-29-2008, 10:34 PM
really?????



^^^this does not seem to be someone who actually wants to discuss sports....this to me is someone who has his opinion and doesn't want to listen to anyone else and then *****es and cries when someone disagrees with them....but whatever floats ur boat i guess

there's disagreeing and then there's being ****ing sarcastic and having an attitude in your words that stems from being some guy at a computer somewhere...

nstojic
04-29-2008, 10:35 PM
^^ an arrogance that comes from having some stupid username and some stupid post count... i'm new to forums and this whole sub-culture stinks...

JaysFan87
04-29-2008, 10:46 PM
^^ an arrogance that comes from having some stupid username and some stupid post count... i'm new to forums and this whole sub-culture stinks...

wtf???????

please tell me when i used the fact that "I have a username" (doesnt everyone have one????) and that i have a post count (doesnt everyone have one???) in any thing i have said. In fact i never said anything against u personally at all. I just said that i would not be rushed to make a judgment on sniders promotion and i would not have a knee jerk reaction to the fact that in 7 games he has struggled. YOU are the one who came out to with the personal attacks and people "hiding" behind their respective computer screens. Considering that this is a forum i dont know what else to do other than give my responses behind a computer screen. If u have developed a new methed of doing this that does not require a keyboard and computer screen then all the power to you. AS for me i am perfectly happy discussing sports on a forum with rational people that dont get offended when people dont agree with them and then go on personal attacks (as mentioned in my previous post) when something does go my way....

nstojic
04-29-2008, 10:50 PM
i never said you mentioned those two things... i'm speculating on what i think drives the tone of the posts for some people... you personally, don't have to tell me to 'relax' about anything... as you eluded to, everyone can give their opinion and nothing more.. haha you started it

nstojic
04-29-2008, 10:51 PM
here, http://youtube.com/watch?v=8kEryR5wj9o&feature=related

JaysFan87
04-29-2008, 11:05 PM
i never said you mentioned those two things... i'm speculating on what i think drives the tone of the posts for some people... you personally, don't have to tell me to 'relax' about anything... as you eluded to, everyone can give their opinion and nothing more.. haha you started it

its great how u take things completely out of context.....but even then whats wrong with the statement???
i told u relax after 7 games at AA....
i told u relax after 25 AB......
i could eb wrong i could be right, i dont profess to know everything and anything about baseball and the development of baseball players. But what i do know is that i would be really hesitant to jump on the decision makers how decided to promote snider to AA this early into his placement in AA. There is always a transition period to a promotion especially going from A to AA. For all intensive purposes it could have been the worst move but we wont know that till after the fact, and you know what they say about hindsight. So yea i dont think my posts or the fact that i have a post count affects what i say and what i say. What i can say is that i know how some of the regular posters feel about certain subjects and how they react, so i knwo generally where they stand so sometime s i make an off the cuff remark that some people would think is rude or misplaced and for that i can understand where ur coming from but to place judgment on me and others who have been here for a while is unfair....

tuck25
04-29-2008, 11:06 PM
nstojic, i have to agree with some of the **** a guy takes for having his own opinion, that may not, heaven forbid, be backed but stats, or their so called Logic. It's an opinion if they don't like it ****im. Baseball isn't played on paper and your just as right as the next guy. I'm not trying to single anyone out, by no means.

nstojic
04-29-2008, 11:07 PM
i didn't like the 'relax' brush off.. you may not have meant it that way but it came across that way... reversed, i would tell you to just give it some more time, see what develops.. because it's only 7, 25, whatever AB's... that's all

nstojic
04-29-2008, 11:10 PM
nstojic, i have to agree with some of the **** a guy takes for having his own opinion, that may not, heaven forbid, be backed but stats, or their so call Logic. It's an opinion if they don't like it ****im. Baseball isn't played on paper and your just as right as the next guy. I'm not trying to single anyone out, by no means.

i know, to me.. it's almost not even about who's right.. not in this thread anyway, i started this just to have a place to post the performance of the minor leaguers.. simple, that b & w.. back to business, does no one care about purcey's filthy day at the park today?

tuck25
04-29-2008, 11:16 PM
i know, to me.. it's almost not even about who's right.. not in this thread anyway, i started this just to have a place to post the performance of the minor leaguers.. simple, that b & w.. back to business, does no one care about purcey's filthy day at the park today?

LOL, that is good, i think if Jesse struggles in the next couple starts they may switch. I think a Lefty would be great in the order anyway, just to give a different look to teams if nothing else.

bomber0104
04-29-2008, 11:26 PM
Wow, I didnt think that this will go that far but this is what happens when u cheer the Jays.

nstojic
04-29-2008, 11:32 PM
Wow, I didnt think that this will go that far but this is what happens when u cheer the Jays.

it's like a clubhouse and when 'we're' winning, everything's great... but after some losses...

JaysFan87
04-30-2008, 01:52 AM
nstojic, i have to agree with some of the **** a guy takes for having his own opinion, that may not, heaven forbid, be backed but stats, or their so called Logic. It's an opinion if they don't like it ****im. Baseball isn't played on paper and your just as right as the next guy. I'm not trying to single anyone out, by no means.

lol..wow people either dont know how to read or dont realize that not everyone is going to agree with you.


i didn't like the 'relax' brush off.. you may not have meant it that way but it came across that way... reversed, i would tell you to just give it some more time, see what develops.. because it's only 7, 25, whatever AB's... that's all

i tried writing it out in terms of the actual facts of it but u still went off so i did the next best thing and told u to relax...jes i didn't know that would hurt u so much...

JaysFan87
04-30-2008, 01:58 AM
so yah, so far this move is not working out... after tonight, he's 3 for 18... that's .167... his OBP is like .260 something... why did they have to **** with him...


umm what has it been???
a week since his promotion?? i think u need to relax, people who make those decisions are there for a reason....


yah, but like JP.. they sometimes they shouldn't be


but with that in mind they must have the smarts to be where they are and we don't considering where we are....


Snider 0-4 today with 4 k. Ouch!!!!. I knew he was gonna struggle with k's in AA like he did in A. He has 16 K in 25 AB and is batting .120 which is awful for a top prospect.

Ricky Romero pitched 3 innings while striking out 4. I think his IP was low because there were rain delays.

Rodriguez is another player than I have kept my eye on. he is batting .421 with 2 HR and 23 RBI's in 19 Games


i said the same thing but got told by jaysfan87 to relax


im glad ur listening.....:clap:


STFU, top prospects need to play like top prospects and i'll stand by that... like Lind, leave the guy at one level and let him get fairly dominant at that level before you promote him

that was the chronologically the series of posts where i "showed my arrogance with a high post count"

im going to guess here but im thinking that the comment that for some reason or another made u waste 3 pages of this thread was the sarcastic responce to this post


i said the same thing but got told by jaysfan87 to relax

with this


im glad ur listening.....:clap:

which then lead to


STFU, top prospects need to play like top prospects and i'll stand by that... like Lind, leave the guy at one level and let him get fairly dominant at that level before you promote him

so basically u ripped on me for telling u to relax on ur assessment on snider after only a week at New Hampshire...

AND IM THE ONE WITH ARROGANCE??????
right.....:rolleyes:

tuck25
04-30-2008, 03:54 AM
](1)lol..wow people either dont know how to read or (2)dont realize that not everyone is going to agree with you[/B].


Well (1), you must be the one who can't read because i don't remember posting it to you, or referring to you.
And (2) I could care less who agrees with me, that including your great wisdom.

Newsflash: I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE THINKS, but I will listen to their opinions ,with out bias, because i like how everyone has different ideas. I have mine that won't change and you have yours, thats fine.
P.S. When you post like you sometimes do you must expect someone to bite back... So just relax, and think with Logic.:eyebrow: LOL

jrice9
04-30-2008, 06:58 AM
define your logic tuck: I am really curious to hear it

nstojic
04-30-2008, 07:29 AM
that was the chronologically the series of posts where i "showed my arrogance with a high post count"

im going to guess here but im thinking that the comment that for some reason or another made u waste 3 pages of this thread was the sarcastic responce to this post



with this



which then lead to



so basically u ripped on me for telling u to relax on ur assessment on snider after only a week at New Hampshire...

AND IM THE ONE WITH ARROGANCE??????
right.....:rolleyes:

again, i was speculating why people on any forum seem to have an arrogant tone to their words... i was speculating FOR MYSELF where that comes from... and yah, reading the chronological order... you tell me to relax, i mention it in a post to someone else, you come back with being glad i'm listening and that ****** *** arrogant clapping..... and i'm the one shooting people down and acting cocky... ??

JaysFan87
04-30-2008, 09:58 AM
Well (1), you must be the one who can't read because i don't remember posting it to you, or referring to you.
And (2) I could care less who agrees with me, that including your great wisdom.

Newsflash: I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE THINKS, but I will listen to their opinions ,with out bias, because i like how everyone has different ideas. I have mine that won't change and you have yours, thats fine.
P.S. When you post like you sometimes do you must expect someone to bite back... So just relax, and think with Logic.:eyebrow: LOL

Well 1) do u think im an idiot and didnt know u were referring to me as one of those guys who didnt agree with u and brought u evidence that u didnt accept?? 2) dito

Logically forums are a place where people with similar/different opinions go and exchange their ideas and discuss them. Yea its great to have an opinion but if ur afraid what I or anyone else thinks then whats the point of being active in a forum other than to just state ur opinion and thats it??

ohh and P.S. when someone has an obvious bias against certain players/managers and makes a somewhat sarcastic statement about them at every single chance, its kinda hard to participate in a critical sports talk.....

JaysFan87
04-30-2008, 10:04 AM
again, i was speculating why people on any forum seem to have an arrogant tone to their words... i was speculating FOR MYSELF where that comes from... and yah, reading the chronological order... you tell me to relax, i mention it in a post to someone else, you come back with being glad i'm listening and that ****** *** arrogant clapping..... and i'm the one shooting people down and acting cocky... ??

LMAO.....:laugh:
wow i didn't think that half serious clapping would hurt u so much...and i also didn't know that i was being cocky although u trying to be a smart *** by saying "JaysFan told me to relax" doesn't put u in the best of light....SO if i was somehow acting cocky then i dont know what to say to u but if i was then maybe u should look at the reason as to why i was before *****ing and complaining....

nstojic
04-30-2008, 10:19 AM
LMAO.....:laugh:
wow i didn't think that half serious clapping would hurt u so much...and i also didn't know that i was being cocky although u trying to be a smart *** by saying "JaysFan told me to relax" doesn't put u in the best of light....SO if i was somehow acting cocky then i dont know what to say to u but if i was then maybe u should look at the reason as to why i was before *****ing and complaining....

dude... :violin::bla::offtopic::pray::yawn::confused: **** off already!!! 'jaysfan told me to relax' is smart *** how?!??

JaysFan87
04-30-2008, 10:37 AM
dude... :violin::bla::offtopic::pray::yawn::confused: **** off already!!! 'jaysfan told me to relax' is smart *** how?!??

ur kidding urself if actually believe that...but w/e i have wasted enough time on u....if ur so emotional over the fact that i told u to relax then i don't know what to say to u....

nstojic
04-30-2008, 11:18 AM
i don't like you :D wasted enough time on me? arrogant goof

JaysFan87
04-30-2008, 01:19 PM
i don't like you :D wasted enough time on me? arrogant goof

yeah....now u got it....how do u like that for arrogance???

tuck25
04-30-2008, 02:16 PM
Well 1) do u think im an idiot and didnt know u were referring to me as one of those guys who didnt agree with u and brought u evidence that u didnt accept?? 2) dito

Logically forums are a place where people with similar/different opinions go and exchange their ideas and discuss them. Yea its great to have an opinion but if ur afraid what I or anyone else thinks then whats the point of being active in a forum other than to just state ur opinion and thats it??

ohh and P.S. when someone has an obvious bias against certain players/managers and makes a somewhat sarcastic statement about them at every single chance, its kinda hard to participate in a critical sports talk.....

What evidence did i not accept, that Zaun is a horrible catcher, because HE IS. He is more that likely the best hitter right now, which doesn't say much, and runners run on him steady. Anyway :sigh:

LOL Well #1 I wasn't talking about you, at all, or as the post says, singling anyone out, that includes you.
and (2) I agree with but it does seem to me that you should read some of your own post again, because when someone doesn't agree with you for what ever reason, then you make posts like relax, or do the research, or something else in context that that they are wrong and your right. If im taking you wrong then sorry but thats the way you and some others (see not only you) come off to me in the posts.
Anyway enough of this ****, it's a prospects forum, on to the NEWS. Anyone here how Diaz did after being sent down ????

tuck25
04-30-2008, 02:17 PM
define your logic tuck: I am really curious to hear it

aahh... what was that again.:confused:

nstojic
04-30-2008, 02:27 PM
LOL Well #1 I wasn't talking about you, at all, or as the post says, singling anyone out, that includes you.
and (2) I agree with but it does seem to me that you should read some of your own post again, because when someone doesn't agree with you for what ever reason, then you make posts like relax, or do the research, or something else in context that that they are wrong and your right. If im taking you wrong then sorry but thats the way you and some others (see not only you) come off to me in the posts.
Anyway enough of this ****, it's a prospects forum, on to the NEWS. Anyone here how Diaz did after being sent down ????

not good, since going back down.. he's 1 for 9 in 3 games... that 1 is a single...

Halladay
04-30-2008, 02:35 PM
Jaysfan and Nstojic are the new Russ Adams and Aaron Hill.

JaysFan87
04-30-2008, 02:48 PM
shotgun aaron hill......:D

JaysFan87
04-30-2008, 02:50 PM
What evidence did i not accept, that Zaun is a horrible catcher, because HE IS. He is more that likely the best hitter right now, which doesn't say much, and runners run on him steady. Anyway :sigh:

LOL Well #1 I wasn't talking about you, at all, or as the post says, singling anyone out, that includes you.
and (2) I agree with but it does seem to me that you should read some of your own post again, because when someone doesn't agree with you for what ever reason, then you make posts like relax, or do the research, or something else in context that that they are wrong and your right. If im taking you wrong then sorry but thats the way you and some others (see not only you) come off to me in the posts.
Anyway enough of this ****, it's a prospects forum, on to the NEWS. Anyone here how Diaz did after being sent down ????


really???? didnt know, IF YOU CAN some how show me a post where i was unable to accept ur argument then go ahead but i really doubt that...

Halladay
04-30-2008, 03:06 PM
http://www.queerty.com/queer/blue%20jays%20gay%20wedding.jpeg

JaysFan87
04-30-2008, 03:20 PM
lol..i remember that...those were the good ole days where no one expected anything from us...

Halladay
04-30-2008, 03:22 PM
lol..i remember that...those were the good ole days where no one expected anything from us...

And still, nobody expects anything from us!

JaysFan87
04-30-2008, 03:31 PM
And still, nobody expects anything from us!

I think everyone expects more from us (the Blue Jays) and is an adjustment for these guys cause for teh core of the team none of them have really been in playoff or division races in their career...is still disappointing nonetheless...

bomber0104
04-30-2008, 03:41 PM
I think all of you should relax and enjoy the ride that is watching the Jays

JaysFan87
04-30-2008, 03:47 PM
I think all of you should relax and enjoy the ride that is watching the Jays

apparently u are arrogant in some peoples mind "relax" means that you think ur above everyone...just thought i would let u know... :smoking:

fatkev78
04-30-2008, 04:05 PM
lol..i remember that...those were the good ole days where no one expected anything from us...

What? That was only 2 years ago and we had just signed AJ, BJ and traded for Overbay.

Anyway, it was great to see a bounce back game of sorts from Purcey. Hopefully Snider can start swinging the stick like he can in AA soon.

JaysFan87
04-30-2008, 04:59 PM
What? That was only 2 years ago and we had just signed AJ, BJ and traded for Overbay.


it was a joke that clearly went right over ur head....lol

fatkev78
04-30-2008, 05:14 PM
^ohhhhh........good one.

JaysFan87
04-30-2008, 05:14 PM
^ohhhhh........good one.

thank you:clap:;)

WillRain
04-30-2008, 05:37 PM
What evidence did i not accept, that Zaun is a horrible catcher, because HE IS.

This is an opinion which you are certainly entitled to. It is not, however, "logic".

You wave aside those who cite stats to rebut your claim but the very essence of "logic" is a critical and unbiased look at facts which we are certain of and statistics are facts.

That is not to say that one cannot get an impression, maybe even an accurate one, that a given player is lazy, or arrogant, or wilts in the clutch, or whatever.

But subjective impressions are, by definition, NOT logic....even if they are, in point of fact, accurate.

That said, you have a pretty good attitude about disagreement and you are NOT the subject of the rest of this post.


*******************************


Others on the board - and this is something our touchy new guy seems to not grasp but since by his own admission he is new to this type of forum it's understandable - always have the right to disagree and to express how and why they disagree.

Likewise, we all have the right to take the argument presented by others as seriously or as lightly as we think they deserve.

If a man tells me Zaun is a horrible hitting catcher and I can look at objective statistical evidence to see otherwise, I am entitled to dismiss that claim and not obliged to do so gently. Any more than I would be obliged to take seriously the man who claims Zaun is not a good offensive catcher because he has facial hair.

The new guy has a problem that goes beyond his opinion of the Jays or of the posters on this forum - if he can't handle a bit of arrogance in the responses he gets, then he needs to go back to playing video games or whatever it was he was doing before he joined his first forum.

Because what he is seeing here is SOP on any forum on the net. There will ALWAYS be someone who answers you a bit less gently than your refined sensibilities might have wanted. I learned the same lesson when I first started posting to internet forums and I suspect a lot of others did too. This is not the Lady's Weekly Sewing Circle & Bridge Club.

If your opinions and positions can't stand the scrutiny and rebuttal of those who disagree - often sharply worded - then this is not a venue where you will be happy. So either stay and be pissed off all the time, or move the **** along.

Either way, quit yer cryin - you sound like a little girl.

JaysFan87
04-30-2008, 05:47 PM
^^^Well said.....:clap:

WillRain
04-30-2008, 06:07 PM
I think all of you should relax and enjoy the ride that is watching the Jays

If I may make the observation - often you don't seem to be enjoying it much.

bomber0104
04-30-2008, 06:41 PM
If I may make the observation - often you don't seem to be enjoying it much.

getting frustrated is a part of the enjoyment that comes with being a sports fan

tuck25
04-30-2008, 07:26 PM
WillRain, :cheers:

bomber0104
04-30-2008, 10:18 PM
Snider finally get a hit and goes 1-3. Cecil pitched 3 innings allwoing 4 runs 3 of them earned

nstojic
05-01-2008, 06:03 AM
apparently u are arrogant in some peoples mind "relax" means that you think ur above everyone...just thought i would let u know... :smoking:

:no: see the finger?

Halladay
05-01-2008, 08:20 AM
Please please please can we go a week without discussing whether Zaun is good or not:cry:. If you think he sucks then there's probably nothing anyone can say to convince you otherwise. Same deal if you think he's good. Although it's much easier to say he's not very good...

JaysFan87
05-01-2008, 10:32 PM
on a good note.........Snider went 1-5 and had his first HR in AA today in a blowout win for New Hampshire.....however in the other 4 ABs he struck out....maybe he is slowly turning the corner....slowly.....

bomber0104
05-01-2008, 11:13 PM
on a good note.........Snider went 1-5 and had his first HR in AA today in a blowout win for New Hampshire.....however in the other 4 ABs he struck out....maybe he is slowly turning the corner....slowly.....

Same issue again

WillRain
05-01-2008, 11:50 PM
Robby Diaz is 1 for 14 since returning to AAA
****
During his current hitting streak, Travis Snider is hitting .250 but he has a .400 OBP and a .625 SLG precentage....that's a 1.025 OPS!!!!

;)in 8 AB;)

For the record, if he is out of his opening slump (this is just so we have a low point to refer back to) he was 3/29 with 6 BB and 18 K
****
Ryan Patterson is en fuego with a 1.220 OPS over his last 10 games (41 AB) and has an overall OPS of .889

Guy might be in line to be our next Reed Johnson (albeit right handed)
****
Justin Jackson was back tonight after 10 days on the sidelines, he went 1/4. Here's hoping he picks right up where he left off.
****
Kevin Ahrens is at .351 over the last 10 games with a 1.009 OPS - .309, .850 overall.
****
Kyle Ginley once again kicked considerable *** tonight, his ERA through 6 starts now stands at 1.24, but his string of 20+ scoreless innings was snapped.
****
Cody Crowell - left handed reliever in Lansing - now has 21 K in 9.2 IP

JaysFan87
05-02-2008, 01:03 AM
Same issue again

sometimes u have to fail to succeed....

he has had a hit in each of the last two games....

WillRain
05-02-2008, 04:28 PM
Someone on our blog mentioned an interview with him (no link) in N.H> which said he had developed a hole in his swing because of the hurting elbow. Not sure if we want to complain that he was rushed into action or whatever but, if true, it counters the notion that he can't handle AA pitching.

bomber0104
05-02-2008, 09:54 PM
Snider 1-4 with 2k.

Cecil got called to AA btw and I believe he lost his first start allowing 3 runs in 3 innings.

WillRain
05-04-2008, 04:43 PM
Justin "The Next Big Thing" Jackson went 3 for 4 today with a double and a triple.
:dance:
Kid can't get here soon enough...

Halladay
05-04-2008, 05:02 PM
Jackson is in single A isn't he?

Halladay
05-04-2008, 05:28 PM
When is the draft? Like, what day does it start? I was going to make a thread about it but I figured I could just post the question in here. mymlbdraft.com(Mock draft) has us drafting at pick 17 drafting Isaac Galloway, a high school outfielder out of Rancho Cucamonga, California.