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The Claw
02-29-2008, 10:36 PM
I will officially start this thread.

This coach does not know how to adapt to different situations. He is very slow in reacting to different offenses. His defensive rotations is terrible especially against wing players of opposing teams. Let me count: Magette, Lebron, Kobe, Crawford, Barbosa.

He has a very long leash on TJ but very short on his most consistent players - Moon and Calderon.

He motivates and yells but thats all he can offer, in close game situations, he is a very poor tactician. After every timeout, its either a turnover or a clock running out.

I am done.

nstojic
02-29-2008, 10:47 PM
i know, how many uncontested shots did dunleavy make?!@?! gee sam, dirk and lebron did that do you.. you'd think by now he'd know how to double a hot shooter... haha loser.. go shot another ford commercial

nads83
02-29-2008, 11:00 PM
oh oh can i start the "trade the 7 foot jumpshooting pretty boy who couldnt grab a rebound if it hit off the front end of the rim and roled right to him, but its ok cuz he has nice hair and his eyebrows are perfectly shaped so it dosnt matter that hes pretty worthless at the defensive end.", thread?

B2B
02-29-2008, 11:04 PM
oh oh can i start the "trade the 7 foot jumpshooting pretty boy who couldnt grab a rebound if it hit off the front end of the rim and roled right to him, but its ok cuz he has nice hair and his eyebrows are perfectly shaped so it dosnt matter that hes pretty worthless at the defensive end.", thread?

I hope you're reffering to someone other than Bargs because he was one of the few positives tonight

Dol-Fan
02-29-2008, 11:08 PM
oh oh can i start the "trade the 7 foot jumpshooting pretty boy who couldnt grab a rebound if it hit off the front end of the rim and roled right to him, but its ok cuz he has nice hair and his eyebrows are perfectly shaped so it dosnt matter that hes pretty worthless at the defensive end.", thread?

didn't Bargs grab 9 boards tonight ? And I think he's been playing a lot better defensively lately. What he needs to do is control the amount of threes he attempts.

And about Sam, you dont think he is telling his boys to get up on these guys ? Maybe Moon and Parker are just ****ty defenders ? There is no way that a coach could see wing players go off on his team and NOT realize something.

I'm beginning to realize that our problem isn't Bargs at all, or Sam, it is our lack of talent at EITHER wing position. You can get by with one so-so player at the wing (either Moon OR Parker) but there is no way that you can get by with two so-so players. We need a game changing player.

nads83
02-29-2008, 11:19 PM
I hope you're reffering to someone other than Bargs because he was one of the few positives tonight

id prefer a legit 5. not one that has no impact in a game defensively. and definatly not one that decides to rebound 1 out of every 10 games. no thanks. bargs had a good scoring game...nothing else. no...bargs was no factor defensively, no one was.

nads83
02-29-2008, 11:24 PM
didn't Bargs grab 9 boards tonight ? And I think he's been playing a lot better defensively lately. What he needs to do is control the amount of threes he attempts.

And about Sam, you dont think he is telling his boys to get up on these guys ? Maybe Moon and Parker are just ****ty defenders ? There is no way that a coach could see wing players go off on his team and NOT realize something.

I'm beginning to realize that our problem isn't Bargs at all, or Sam, it is our lack of talent at EITHER wing position. You can get by with one so-so player at the wing (either Moon OR Parker) but there is no way that you can get by with two so-so players. We need a game changing player.

weve been saying that repeatedly. an allstar caliber sf and a decent big away from being an elite.
kirilenko and varejao in the offseaon would do the trick and they wouldnt be too difficult to obtain

Bob_at_york
02-29-2008, 11:24 PM
id prefer a legit 5. not one that has no impact in a game defensively. and definatly not one that decides to rebound 1 out of every 10 games. no thanks. bargs had a good scoring game...nothing else. no...bargs was no factor defensively, no one was.

we are getting away from the topic of this thread but i have to ask: Are you kidding me? He grabbed 9 rebounds and drew 3 offensive fouls in one quarter. When guys are blowing by your wing players, it is kindof tough to play defence on a speeding wing player coming at you.

The Claw
02-29-2008, 11:27 PM
Bargnani is not the problem of this team and please start another thread on Bargs.

nads83
02-29-2008, 11:35 PM
we are getting away from the topic of this thread but i have to ask: Are you kidding me? He grabbed 9 rebounds and drew 3 offensive fouls in one quarter. When guys are blowing by your wing players, it is kindof tough to play defence on a speeding wing player coming at you.

oh plz. bargs has one game where he isnt entirely useless and everyone thinks he isnt a glaring weak point in the lineup. as for sam...he has the best suits money can buy. his suits are just stunning. you cant fire a coach who dresses so well. it dosnt matter if he can coach or not (he cant)...the man dresses well and he has great sideburns.

B2B
02-29-2008, 11:35 PM
didn't Bargs grab 9 boards tonight ? And I think he's been playing a lot better defensively lately. What he needs to do is control the amount of threes he attempts.

And about Sam, you dont think he is telling his boys to get up on these guys ? Maybe Moon and Parker are just ****ty defenders ? There is no way that a coach could see wing players go off on his team and NOT realize something.

I'm beginning to realize that our problem isn't Bargs at all, or Sam, it is our lack of talent at EITHER wing position. You can get by with one so-so player at the wing (either Moon OR Parker) but there is no way that you can get by with two so-so players. We need a game changing player.

Moon, Parker and Delfino r considered our better defenders. Sam's substitutions tonight indicated he had no idea how to matchup his players to what the Pacers were putting on the floor. He was badly out coached tonight. Pacers were running layup drills all night. You would think after a poor showing in Indiana Sam would've been more prepared but we looked even worst. It's either Sam had no answers or r players suck. If our players don't suck Sam should be replaced it's one or the other.

nstojic
02-29-2008, 11:37 PM
weve been saying that repeatedly. an allstar caliber sf and a decent big away from being an elite.
kirilenko and varejao in the offseaon would do the trick and they wouldnt be too difficult to obtain

yah, you're bang on! i think we could get kirilenko for graham, martin, gherardini, and two of colangelo's suites.. and the cavs would definately give us varejao for baston, a metropass, and 2 spritezone tickets to a game of their choosing... get lost!

nads83
02-29-2008, 11:40 PM
a work of art how he just stands there with his arms folded. stunning. raps could be blowing a 30 pt lead...and sam will jus stand there. statuesque. godlike. fire him? thats just blasphemy

Durant is hype
02-29-2008, 11:43 PM
Sam got out coached.

nads83
02-29-2008, 11:46 PM
yah, you're bang on! i think we could get kirilenko for graham, martin, gherardini, and two of colangelo's suites.. and the cavs would definately give us varejao for baston, a metropass, and 2 spritezone tickets to a game of their choosing... get lost!

get lost? im not a computer thug, so i wont respond wrecklessly. but lets try to be mature when you address me next time.

nstojic
02-29-2008, 11:49 PM
get lost? im not a computer thug, so i wont respond wrecklessly. but lets try to be mature when you address me next time.

you're right, but its just anger/frustration and the lack of common sense in your original post

WaterBoy24
02-29-2008, 11:49 PM
I've said it millions of times,how many times I have 2 say it,Sam is not the problem,and his not the best technical coach,but sam isn't playing out there,his not playing sg/sf,they don't play good defense...
Blow by....Blow by...Blow by...especially jamario....
Jamario moon the hooneymoon is over,time 2 put him on the bench....
This team needs swingman,who can play D and score,rebound,block...
Next year u got 2 get swingman,Josh Smith would be nice.

nstojic
02-29-2008, 11:52 PM
I've said it millions of times,how many times I have 2 say it,Sam is not the problem,and his not the best technical coach,but sam isn't playing out there,his not playing sg/sf,they don't play good defense...
Blow by....Blow by...Blow by...especially jamario....
Jamario moon the hooneymoon is over,time 2 put him on the bench....
This team needs swingman,who can play D and score...
Next year u got 2 get swingman,Josh Smith would be nice.

FTW, moon would not start on the other playoff teams... I honestly believe he lets them blow by most of the time because he's fallen in love with that block from behind, when the guy thinks he's gone around him and left him in his dust... but that's not how you play D in the nba.. that flashy **** works with the globetrotters

nads83
02-29-2008, 11:55 PM
you're right, but its just anger/frustration and the lack of common sense in your original post

common sense? lol. it wouldnt be that hard to get varejao here. i dont know why you think that is so farfetched.

B2B
02-29-2008, 11:57 PM
I've said it millions of times,how many times I have 2 say it,Sam is not the problem,and his not the best technical coach,but sam isn't playing out there,his not playing sg/sf,they don't play good defense...
Blow by....Blow by...Blow by...especially jamario....
Jamario moon the hooneymoon is over,time 2 put him on the bench....
This team needs swingman,who can play D and score,rebound,block...
Next year u got 2 get swingman,Josh Smith would be nice.

If a player allows his man to blow by over and over and no adjustment is made who's at fault is it the player or the coach?. Its called a missmatch and Indiana's coached owned Mitchell.

nads83
02-29-2008, 11:59 PM
I've said it millions of times,how many times I have 2 say it,Sam is not the problem,and his not the best technical coach,but sam isn't playing out there,his not playing sg/sf,they don't play good defense...
Blow by....Blow by...Blow by...especially jamario....
Jamario moon the hooneymoon is over,time 2 put him on the bench....
This team needs swingman,who can play D and score,rebound,block...
Next year u got 2 get swingman,Josh Smith would be nice.

smith would be the perfect fit. dont see it happening tho. 1 consistant swingman would be enuf. along with a decent big. id like to see moon come off the bench, i think he would respond very well

nstojic
03-01-2008, 12:00 AM
common sense? lol. it wouldnt be that hard to get varejao here. i dont know why you think that is so farfetched.

? what/who do we have that has cleveland kicking down our door to give us varejao?

nads83
03-01-2008, 12:03 AM
cant blame the coach/players entirely. hard to coach a jumpshooting team to be cosistanly good defenders.

nads83
03-01-2008, 12:07 AM
? what/who do we have that has cleveland kicking down our door to give us varejao?

varejao isnt exactly happy in clev. not to mention wallace and smith will be taking time away from him now. clev has an abundance of big men. what they lack is shooting. they lack that even more now with hughes gone. wally sucks.

kapono
2nd rd pick

for

varejao

kapono would be absolutly deadly with james
helps both teams. they would do it. we would do it

nstojic
03-01-2008, 12:27 AM
varejao isnt exactly happy in clev. not to mention wallace and smith will be taking time away from him now. clev has an abundance of big men. what they lack is shooting. they lack that even more now with hughes gone. wally sucks.

kapono
2nd rd pick

for

varejao

kapono would be absolutly deadly with james
helps both teams. they would do it. we would do it

smith expires at the end of the season, they'll hang on to varajeo.. after this season, kapono's gonna be regarded as a 3 specialist who doesn't shoot'em much

Bob_at_york
03-01-2008, 01:01 AM
smith expires at the end of the season, they'll hang on to varajeo.. after this season, kapono's gonna be regarded as a 3 specialist who doesn't shoot'em much

I originally thought Joe expired too but I checked earlier in the week, he is signed through next season.

LittleBosh
03-01-2008, 01:20 AM
If a player allows his man to blow by over and over and no adjustment is made who's at fault is it the player or the coach?. Its called a missmatch and Indiana's coached owned Mitchell.

Mitchell's coaching was horrible all night long. I thought he made a major mistake going small against that decimated Indy ball club. I couldn't watch our "agile" lineup with Joey at centre and AP at PF, so I had to turn the TV off briefly. Playing Jose and Ford together for THAT long was bizarre to say the least, the Indy is no Wizards to match their athleticism and there was no constant full court pressure to withstand. It also appeared that somehow their no name backcourt ate ours for breakfast. And if Sam is thought of as a good motivator for this team, the only players he managed to encourage with his heroics were Indiana's.

Dragan
03-01-2008, 01:29 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. somone plz kill this thread, or make it the official fire the coach thread. there are like 50 of them.

Dragan
03-01-2008, 03:04 AM
oh oh can i start the "trade the 7 foot jumpshooting pretty boy who couldnt grab a rebound if it hit off the front end of the rim and roled right to him, but its ok cuz he has nice hair and his eyebrows are perfectly shaped so it dosnt matter that hes pretty worthless at the defensive end.", thread?

Brags had 9 rebounds today. can we trade you? LOL and fire teh Claw? Im sorry if im pissing ppl of here i really do apologise. But ppl have to take it easy. Do you think ppl on the San Antonio board were screaming to fire Popovic and trade Dunken after we beat them at home?? or the same thing with chris paul and the coach in NO when we beat them? No, so stop trashing the coach adn the players whenever we loose a game. Its becoming so boring.

The Claw
03-01-2008, 03:37 AM
Brags had 9 rebounds today. can we trade you? LOL and fire teh Claw? Im sorry if im pissing ppl of here i really do apologise. But ppl have to take it easy. Do you think ppl on the San Antonio board were screaming to fire Popovic and trade Dunken after we beat them at home?? or the same thing with chris paul and the coach in NO when we beat them? No, so stop trashing the coach adn the players whenever we loose a game. Its becoming so boring.

Dude, firing me is of no use for the raps, it will not result to wins for the raps.
Firing you though for grounds of poor in spelling and grammar maybe valid.

Btw... where are you from? Czechoslovakia? I spelled it for you just in case you want to copy it and paste it.

LOL...3 NBA championship, theres no way for Spurs fans to create a thread to Fire Pop after losing to the Raptors at home.

Sam? there will always be a thread for him to get fired, why? BECAUSE HE SUCK !!!

huidogg
03-01-2008, 05:29 AM
hahahaha, well, we can add some raptors dancers in the deal, tat way we can secure varejao along with baston, metropass and 2 sprite zone tickets!

LD V2.0
03-01-2008, 09:31 AM
Here's an idea, why not just open up the Fire Sam Mitchell thread from last year? That thread is a grave yard of horrible predictions and over reactions. This one will be the same.


I will officially start this thread.

This coach does not know how to adapt to different situations. He is very slow in reacting to different offenses. His defensive rotations is terrible especially against wing players of opposing teams. Let me count: Magette, Lebron, Kobe, Crawford, Barbosa, and tonight - Dunleavy.

He has a very long leech on TJ but very short on his most consistent players - Moon and Calderon.

He motivates and yells but thats all he can offer, in close game situations, he is a very poor tactician. After every timeout, its either a turnover or a clock running out.

I am done.


Fire Sam Mitchell with less than a half season left? During an important playoff run where they're fighting for a strong seed? Have the team take a big hit to the books? Who do you suggest they hire?

- I rarely see a 24 second violation by the Raptors and they're one of the top teams in terms of not turning the ball over.
- TJ just came back from a long absence where he thought his career was over.
- You need strong defenders to have good defensive rotations. Outside Parker, Moon and Delfino who do they have?


Sam? there will always be a thread for him to get fired, why? BECAUSE HE SUCK !!!

There will always be a Fire Sam thread because most Raptors fans are Leafs fans. That explains it all right there.

the life
03-01-2008, 11:00 AM
If you ask me Sam is a bad coach plain and simple. He is bad for so many reasons. But he is a likeable person. He is really nice and good of a person and people are deceived by his good and sincere nature. But make no mistake to like a person doesn’t mean to like a coach. Phil Jackson is not a very nice person, he is a stiff, but he is for sure a good coach. Butch Carter was not a very nice person but he was definitely a good coach. He got the best from VC. He made him half man half amazing. Sam is just not a good coach but people tend to forget how bad he is because he is very nice. If you ask me he could be my friend but I will not hire him to coach my team. Not a single player traded from here had nice things to say about Coach Sam. This tells me something. VC was always speaking high about Butch Carter even years after he was fired. A good coach gets the respect from the players, because players are pros and know to appreciate another pro. Sam is just a nice person that tries hard but has no clue about coaching.

JaysFan87
03-01-2008, 11:04 AM
id prefer a legit 5. not one that has no impact in a game defensively. and definatly not one that decides to rebound 1 out of every 10 games. no thanks. bargs had a good scoring game...nothing else. no...bargs was no factor defensively, no one was.

yes i completely agree with you. WE should all just give up on Bargs. I mean seriously he is 23, in his sophomore year and in a completely different league. One would think a person like this should be scoring like 20 ppg and grabbing 10reb per game. He is a total wash and doesn’t deserve the chance to possible get better playing in a new league with different types of players. Since we are at it, what’s up with his nickname, I mean come on "Bargs"??? That potential could be the worst nickname or short form ever. That along with Bargnani himself should be deported out of here so that another team who can pick him up so that he can become a star and beat us every time we play him. Cause really, who doesn’t want to get beat by a former number 1 who got run out of town because he wasn’t an MVP in his second year in a new league.

JaysFan87
03-01-2008, 11:09 AM
common sense? lol. it wouldnt be that hard to get varejao here. i dont know why you think that is so farfetched.

from a cavs perspective, even if for some reason they decided to trade him (why they would trade him is beyond me) , who exactly would u be willing to give up for him???

JaysFan87
03-01-2008, 11:18 AM
varejao isnt exactly happy in clev. not to mention wallace and smith will be taking time away from him now. clev has an abundance of big men. what they lack is shooting. they lack that even more now with hughes gone. wally sucks.

kapono
2nd rd pick

for

varejao

kapono would be absolutly deadly with james
helps both teams. they would do it. we would do it



smith is a FA after this year so if they somehow get it into their heads that they wanna trade varejao (again i don’t see why) then they would be left with only 2 big men (Z, Wallace) which means they would need to draft a big man (you prolly cant get a good enough big man where they are going to be drafting) or would need to go with a FA. ANd considering that they have cost certainty right now with their bigs why would they give up varejao to pay the inflationary cost of a big man???


and as for the trade..its great u think they would accept that trade (I think they wont) but even if they did u help fill the supposed hole u think Bargnani presents while opening another at the 3. Why you would rather see extended minutes for graham is beyond me....

JaysFan87
03-01-2008, 11:19 AM
I originally thought Joe expired too but I checked earlier in the week, he is signed through next season.

he does expire
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/cleveland.htm

Bramaca
03-01-2008, 11:59 AM
he does expire
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/cleveland.htm

That link that you just gave shows that he is signed through next season with a player option for another year.

Bramaca
03-01-2008, 12:02 PM
As for Mitchell, I'm not a big fan of his and don't think he is a great coach. But there is no use firing him unless they know exactly who is going to replace him.

B2B
03-01-2008, 12:34 PM
"we talked about getting up on guys, communicating on defense, keeping people in front of us and they just drove by us," Raps head coach Sam Mitchell said.

It got so out of hand defensively that Mitchell went to an all-point guard backcourt of Jose Calderon and T.J. Ford, not necessarily for the speed they could provide offensively but for their defensive skills. And seeing how neither is anything close to a lock-down defender, that was a huge gamble for Mitchell.

"We were trying to put some people in the game who had a chance to keep somebody in front of them, that was it," Mitchell said.

"We were just getting beat at almost every spot. It's tough when they swing the ball and at every spot they're beating you off the dribble. You come and help and then they hit a three.

That's the best you can say :bla:"they just drove by us" It's your job to stop that. If you r saying our players r **** then I'll wait till next year.

Wait wait wait :shrug:I thought Jose was a poor defender for his own natural position not to mention SG. A backcourt PG 6' and SG 6' 3" you put in to play defence. **** man I thought he did that for offence.:pity:

Mitchell rotated so many players I don't know how they would ever find a rythm. Like I said in the game thread I thought he was going to sub someone in from row 1 section 12:badidea:. He gave none a chance to get hot. He was flat out guessing and hoping. That's why he had to gamble, he was depending on luck and the hope that one of his players would get hot and bail him out.

"that was it" Sam said. That was it. Thats all the solution Sam had for what happened last night. Keep your man in front of you Daaaaa thats all I got, win this one for me.:drunk::puke::faint:

Mitchell go sell your **** on someone else, I aint buyin' it.:mad:

AFlagRules
03-01-2008, 12:42 PM
Why don't we fire everyone. Why don't we just flop the franchise?

Hmm...let me point out a similar situation.

Miami Heat - HOF Coach. Franchise player in DWade. Shawn Marion is better then the 2nd best player on the Raptors. Yet they only managed to win 11 games all year, and 2 of like 7 with Marion. You don't hear the "Fire Riley Chants".

You guys need to stfu when we lose ONE fricken game. Jesus christ its getting annoying. Bargnani has a bad game, and were ready to cut his head off. Mitchell screws up a couple of times and were ready to fire him. This team is 7 games over .500. Thats a lot better then more then half of the league.

Mitchell has to work with what hes got. And he has a HORRENDOUS man to man defensive team. When you lose a guy like Bosh in the middle, its hard to do much of anything and adjust in game.

I read earlier that someone said that Moon/Calderon are our most consistent guys.

1. Moon is garbage. Hes like a rock sponge. He doesn't do anything of what Mitchell says, and hes the softest player on the team. Hes got the worst if not one of the worst shots on the team, and he shoots more then most players.

2. Calderon played 41 minutes last night. And since Ford came back, hes been in a slump.


Can you guys go 1 loss, without chanting "Fire the Coach?"

The Claw
03-01-2008, 12:43 PM
LD, yes you are right, I do admit that it is a knee jerk reaction to fire Sam at this point of the season. It can wait. The raptors just officially hired Lucas to be their consultant, hey maybe he will be a good fit, he is definitely a motivator AND he is a good x's and O's coach.

For your point that the raptors rarely see a 24 second violation and they are one of the top two teams in the leagues, i dont refute that. What I am saying though is that after EVERY TIME OUT (especially after the opposing team making a run), after Sam's spill to his players and after using that useless drawing board of his, the raptors always commit a turnover or the clock runs out. So whats the purpose of that time out? Does Sam design a play? Does he really? LOL

Sam have to utilize his players , maybe designing a defensive scheme to stop "HOT WINGS". Delfino, Moon and AP are decent defenders. Against Barbosa, Crawford, Dunleavy, Magette, so many times by Lebron and Kobe, all these players scored 35 or better against us. Its pathetic.

AFlagRules
03-01-2008, 12:49 PM
LD, yes you are right, I do admit that it is a knee jerk reaction to fire Sam at this point of the season. It can wait. The raptors just officially hired Lucas to be their consultant, hey maybe he will be a good fit, he is definitely a motivator AND he is a good x's and O's coach.

For your point that the raptors rarely see a 24 second violation and they are one of the top two teams in the leagues, i dont refute that. What I am saying though is that after EVERY TIME OUT (especially after the opposing team making a run), after Sam's spill to his players and after using that useless drawing board of his, the raptors always commit a turnover or the clock runs out. So whats the purpose of that time out? Does Sam design a play? Does he really? LOL

Sam have to utilize his players , maybe designing a defensive scheme to stop "HOT WINGS". Delfino, Moon and AP are decent defenders. Against Barbosa, Crawford, Dunleavy, Magette, so many times by Lebron and Kobe, all these players scored 35 or better against us. Its pathetic.

You mentioned how Kobe and LeBron always go off on us. Who don't they go off on?

Dunleavy in his last 5 games, shooting 50% and scoring 26 PPG.
Maggette torched every team he played that week.
Crawford is the only bright spot on the Knicks.

B2B
03-01-2008, 12:50 PM
Why don't we fire everyone. Why don't we just flop the franchise?

Hmm...let me point out a similar situation.

Miami Heat - HOF Coach. Franchise player in DWade. Shawn Marion is better then the 2nd best player on the Raptors. Yet they only managed to win 11 games all year, and 2 of like 7 with Marion. You don't hear the "Fire Riley Chants".

You guys need to stfu when we lose ONE fricken game. Jesus christ its getting annoying. Bargnani has a bad game, and were ready to cut his head off. Mitchell screws up a couple of times and were ready to fire him. This team is 7 games over .500. Thats a lot better then more then half of the league.

Mitchell has to work with what hes got. And he has a HORRENDOUS man to man defensive team. When you lose a guy like Bosh in the middle, its hard to do much of anything and adjust in game.

I read earlier that someone said that Moon/Calderon are our most consistent guys.

1. Moon is garbage. Hes like a rock sponge. He doesn't do anything of what Mitchell says, and hes the softest player on the team. Hes got the worst if not one of the worst shots on the team, and he shoots more then most players.

2. Calderon played 41 minutes last night. And since Ford came back, hes been in a slump.


Can you guys go 1 loss, without chanting "Fire the Coach?"

Who the **** is you?. I would like to see you tell me that to my face.

AFlagRules
03-01-2008, 12:54 PM
Who the **** is you?. I would like to see you tell me that to my face.

Haha. OH KNOES! Its an E-BULLY!

B2B
03-01-2008, 12:57 PM
Haha. OH KNOES! Its an E-BULLY!

Isn't that what you just did by telling everyone to stfu.

jrice9
03-01-2008, 01:00 PM
b2b chill all of you need to chill look how great ts team is doing you guys are swallowing greed remember the bad years remember them

The Claw
03-01-2008, 01:01 PM
Let me compare the Raptors vs. New Orleans and Utah.

Both NO and Utah are in the toughest conference. NO's record now is 39-18 (21 games above 500) and Utah's record is 37-22(15 games above 500).
The Raptors are 32-25(7 games above 500).

NO and Utah have very good PG, Raptors have 2.
NO and Utah have a very good PF, Raptors have one also.
NO and Utah have wing 3 point shooters, Raptors have tons of them.

So whats the difference???

NO and Utah have great motivators and excellent tacticians who both know how to utilize their players on both ends of the court.
Raptors have a screamer and the worst tactician who cant win close games.

The Claw
03-01-2008, 01:02 PM
Why don't we fire everyone. Why don't we just flop the franchise?

Hmm...let me point out a similar situation.

Miami Heat - HOF Coach. Franchise player in DWade. Shawn Marion is better then the 2nd best player on the Raptors. Yet they only managed to win 11 games all year, and 2 of like 7 with Marion. You don't hear the "Fire Riley Chants".

You guys need to stfu when we lose ONE fricken game. Jesus christ its getting annoying. Bargnani has a bad game, and were ready to cut his head off. Mitchell screws up a couple of times and were ready to fire him. This team is 7 games over .500. Thats a lot better then more then half of the league.

Mitchell has to work with what hes got. And he has a HORRENDOUS man to man defensive team. When you lose a guy like Bosh in the middle, its hard to do much of anything and adjust in game.

I read earlier that someone said that Moon/Calderon are our most consistent guys.

1. Moon is garbage. Hes like a rock sponge. He doesn't do anything of what Mitchell says, and hes the softest player on the team. Hes got the worst if not one of the worst shots on the team, and he shoots more then most players.

2. Calderon played 41 minutes last night. And since Ford came back, hes been in a slump.


Can you guys go 1 loss, without chanting "Fire the Coach?"


relax dont get too emotional and defensive.

gbus
03-01-2008, 01:13 PM
Let me compare the Raptors vs. New Orleans and Utah.

Both NO and Utah are in the toughest conference. NO's record now is 39-18 (21 games above 500) and Utah's record is 37-22(15 games above 500).
The Raptors are 32-25(7 games above 500).

NO and Utah have very good PG, Raptors have 2.
NO and Utah have a very good PF, Raptors have one also.
NO and Utah have wing 3 point shooters, Raptors have tons of them.

So whats the difference???

NO and Utah have great motivators and excellent tacticians who both know how to utilize their players on both ends of the court.
Raptors have a screamer and the worst tactician who cant win close games.

I'll give you Jerry Sloan, one of the best ever, but Byron Scott? I like him too, but his X's and O's reputation is just as bad, if not worst then Sam Mitchell's. Do you know anything about Scott?

B2B
03-01-2008, 01:16 PM
Stan Van Gundy

jrice9
03-01-2008, 01:17 PM
another question if we fire sam who do we hire? an answers boys?

jrice9
03-01-2008, 01:17 PM
Stan Van Gundy
did u answer my question before i asked it? wtf

B2B
03-01-2008, 01:19 PM
did u answer my question before i asked it? wtf

I'm just that damn good :eyebrow:

jrice9
03-01-2008, 01:29 PM
lol who else could be a candidate,I personally think we could look into some college coaches as assistants who would ultimatelky replace same

LD V2.0
03-01-2008, 02:01 PM
LD, yes you are right, I do admit that it is a knee jerk reaction to fire Sam at this point of the season. It can wait. The raptors just officially hired Lucas to be their consultant, hey maybe he will be a good fit, he is definitely a motivator AND he is a good x's and O's coach.

So let me get this straight. You fire the coach of the year and bring in a guy who you don't know for sure would be a fit with this team. Great logic.


Stan Van Gundy

Orlando Magic.


I'm just that damn good :eyebrow:

Bramaca
03-01-2008, 02:07 PM
lol who else could be a candidate,I personally think we could look into some college coaches as assistants who would ultimatelky replace same

Sam's technically in charge of who his assistants are so I don't think he would take to kindly to hiring and training someone to replace him. BC has a say and probably could force someone in there but evenso that is a dirty move.

JaysFan87
03-01-2008, 02:08 PM
That link that you just gave shows that he is signed through next season with a player option for another year.

if u read the post i quoted it was to in reference to joe smith's contract...

B2B
03-01-2008, 02:17 PM
So let me get this straight. You fire the coach of the year and bring in a guy who you don't know for sure would be a fit with this team. Great logic.



Orlando Magic.

You're right to fire Sam now is bad timing. Your also right I ment to say Jeff Van Gundy the brother the one who coached the knicks. Keep trying I'm enjoying the challenge and yes i'm just that good.:eyebrow:

Bramaca
03-01-2008, 02:36 PM
if u read the post i quoted it was to in reference to joe smith's contract...

Sorry, for some reason I thought that Bob had shortened Varajeo's name to "joe".

clehmun
03-01-2008, 02:58 PM
the day we win a championship, our coach WILL NOT be sam... he just doesn't have what it takes as a coach.
but there's no point of firing him now. we're still years away from contending, give him one or two more years if y'all like.
but i won't be surprised if BC replaces him this offseason. he was close to firing sam last year until he got the coach of the year.

ink
03-01-2008, 03:41 PM
I've been avoiding this thread because I don't want to blast it. Let's just say there's no point in letting a guy who has done this much for the team go until 1. the Raps truly have the talent to contend, and 2. he's proven that he can't keep up with their development. Obviously he has shortcomings, but he also has pluses. If his players develop and he does not, then he will be replaced. IMO he's a transitional coach: a very important part of the development of a team. I don't like everything he does, but there's no way people can deny that he brings something positive to this team.

HoopsMachine
03-01-2008, 03:43 PM
Let me compare the Raptors vs. New Orleans and Utah.

Both NO and Utah are in the toughest conference. NO's record now is 39-18 (21 games above 500) and Utah's record is 37-22(15 games above 500).
The Raptors are 32-25(7 games above 500).

NO and Utah have very good PG, Raptors have 2.
NO and Utah have a very good PF, Raptors have one also.
NO and Utah have wing 3 point shooters, Raptors have tons of them.

So whats the difference???

NO and Utah have great motivators and excellent tacticians who both know how to utilize their players on both ends of the court.
Raptors have a screamer and the worst tactician who cant win close games.

Those are bad comparisons and simply a poor justification for why Sam is a terrible coach... don't get me wrong I also think he needs work on areas of his coaching but comparing our team to 2 superior teams player wise and staffing wise and isolate the coach as the difference maker is nuts.

First of all Chris Paul and Deron Williams are better playmakers, better scorers, and most importantly better defenders then our PG's.

Also New Orleans has a center in Chandler who does what is needed from that position which is block/alter shots and grabs boards... Utah doesn't have this strength but they have a lockdown defender in Krilenko and Memhet who is a solid rebounder and has size to bang with opposing centers and make them work in the post.

Lastly, how long has Jerry Sloan been in the league coaching? Now compare that to the 4 measly seasons Smitch has been coaching in which two of those four years were rebuilding efforts in vain.

But the key difference is that both those clubs can play on both ends of the court, offense AND defense.

On a side note I wanted to add-on to a key point that Ink mentioned earlier... judge the man when he has the talent to compete for a Championship, it's not that we lack talent, we have plenty, but it's too much in the same area of offense which is primarily shooting and not enough in vital areas such as rebounding and defending.

juno
03-01-2008, 05:10 PM
I'm of the belief about coaching that the best coaches take the least amount to work with and do well with it. Examples are the Rockies last year in baseball, the Hurricane winning it all in hockey, Pittsburgh or Baltimore in football. Personally I never thought Bowman was a great coach, I thought he coached great teams, like Riley, Torre, Sather, or Jackson. Now don't get me wrong these are all hall of fame coaches. I always was more impressed with what coaches can do with very little talent (such as Cowher or Nelson). Two examples of great coaches with bad teams were Brown with the Knicks and Jackson with the Lakers last year(year before) both teams stunk, so I asked if they were such great coaches why did their teams stink.

Sam was given a good team, by BCol, not great. Did Sam bring this average team to a higher level, did he sink it into the abyss like the Knicks. I think he is keeping the plane flying but not soaring and not dropping. His record judges that. I can complain about his ridiculous rotations that kill the rhythm and confidence of the team, or his constant shouting and barking at his players, his bench favoritism, his lack of plays or defensive strategy (LOL I think I just did). Maybe he'll get better players, he probably will, but I always watch for the coach that can take the good and make it great. Sadly I don't think it is Sam. Hopefully BC finds a coach that can take good and make it great.

BALLER R
03-01-2008, 05:41 PM
when does sams contract expire

juno
03-01-2008, 05:50 PM
when does sams contract expire

3 more years

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/story/2007/05/22/mitchell-contract.html?ref=rss

BALLER R
03-01-2008, 06:01 PM
unless this team goes downhill i think sam will be here until his contract expires

LD V2.0
03-01-2008, 06:02 PM
I've been avoiding this thread because I don't want to blast it. Let's just say there's no point in letting a guy who has done this much for the team go until 1. the Raps truly have the talent to contend, and 2. he's proven that he can't keep up with their development. Obviously he has shortcomings, but he also has pluses. If his players develop and he does not, then he will be replaced. IMO he's a transitional coach: a very important part of the development of a team. I don't like everything he does, but there's no way people can deny that he brings something positive to this team.

I don't think Sam is the coach that leads them to a championship but their time to contend isn't quite here yet and the right replacement coach isn't available. If they make the switch now its for somebody who doesn't fit or for someone who is going to be a risk. If thats the case then why not stick with Sam until the time is right?

ink
03-01-2008, 06:18 PM
I don't think Sam is the coach that leads them to a championship but their time to contend isn't quite here yet and the right replacement coach isn't available. If they make the switch now its for somebody who doesn't fit or for someone who is going to be a risk. If thats the case then why not stick with Sam until the time is right?

IMO that's exactly what BC is doing. Plus, if Sam develops as a coach while his team progresses and BC doesn't have to replace him, then it's a bonus.

dirtybird
03-01-2008, 06:47 PM
- I rarely see a 24 second violation by the Raptors and they're one of the top teams in terms of not turning the ball over.


The reason that they don't turn the ball over much is because they pretty much only take jumpshots. It's hard to turn the ball over if that is what you do over 80% of the time.

As for firing Sam, it's probably too early to be talking about that, but I'm sure that BC is carefully evaluating him. Personally, I would have loved to see Rudy T running this team. I'm kind of surprised he never got back into coaching.

LD V2.0
03-01-2008, 07:02 PM
Actually a jump shooting team like the Raptors move the ball so much. They make so many passes and it leads them being more prone to turn the ball over.

dirtybird
03-01-2008, 09:07 PM
Actually a jump shooting team like the Raptors move the ball so much. They make so many passes and it leads them being more prone to turn the ball over.

Not really. The thing that leads to a much higher rate of TO's is driving to the rim. There are so many more things that could go wrong dribbling than passing.

Dragan
03-01-2008, 11:17 PM
Dude, firing me is of no use for the raps, it will not result to wins for the raps.
Firing you though for grounds of poor in spelling and grammar maybe valid.

Btw... where are you from? Czechoslovakia? I spelled it for you just in case you want to copy it and paste it.

LOL...3 NBA championship, theres no way for Spurs fans to create a thread to Fire Pop after losing to the Raptors at home.

Sam? there will always be a thread for him to get fired, why? BECAUSE HE SUCK !!!

HAHAHAHAH. no im not from Czechoslovakia.

BTW you mean “Because he sucks” and not “Because he suck”. Look if you have nothing better to say other than to insult people here then don’t post here.

And no there is no reason for us to fire Sam, we got beat and we got beat bad, but does that justify firing Sam, No. You can’t expect this team to be consistent and a contender after turning the corner a year ago. The reason we lost last night was not because of Sam, but because this team is inexperienced. The problem with TO fans is that they want everything right away, after one decent season they expect their teams to roll over everybody, well that aint happening. Look at Larry Brown when he coached the Nicks 2 or 3 years ago, they were horrible, but the talent was there. Is he a Bad Coach? No, but NY sucked because the players played bad. A coach can do so much, he can only tell the players what to do, and not do it for them. SO if you are going to start a fire Sam thread then start a fire BC thread too for not bringing in a few all-stars right away.

nads83
03-01-2008, 11:49 PM
2 words...Gordon Bombay

LD V2.0
03-02-2008, 11:05 AM
Quack? Quack? Quack? Naw, I'm not feelin' it.


You're right to fire Sam now is bad timing. Your also right I ment to say Jeff Van Gundy the brother the one who coached the knicks. Keep trying I'm enjoying the challenge and yes i'm just that good.:eyebrow:

Jeff is a walk the ball up the court kind of coach and thats not what Brian Colangelo wants and thats not the kind of personnel he has on the roster. I believe the tempo of the Raptors is only going to increase as the level of talent and athleticism increases over the years.

dirtybird
03-02-2008, 01:03 PM
Jeff is a walk the ball up the court kind of coach and thats not what Brian Colangelo wants and thats not the kind of personnel he has on the roster. I believe the tempo of the Raptors is only going to increase as the level of talent and athleticism increases over the years.

The Raptors are basically a walk the ball up the court team right now. They're the 4th lowest in terms of pace factor. I meant to point this out before, but they're experience in playing half court basketball will help them in the playoffs. It's one of the few positives they'll have in the postseason.

LD V2.0
03-02-2008, 05:32 PM
That won't matter in a two or three years down the road when they're revved up. A GM doesn't change his philosophy over night. Especially from night to day.

Dragan
03-02-2008, 06:52 PM
2 words...Gordon Bombay

He's good, but i would not mind having Tony D'Amato, maybe turn Brags in to a superstar sooner than later. :p

Halladay
03-02-2008, 06:53 PM
Gordon Bombay would be a godsend.

The Claw
03-02-2008, 08:08 PM
Pathetic Leafs fans.

The Claw
03-02-2008, 08:17 PM
HAHAHAHAH. no im not from Czechoslovakia.

BTW you mean “Because he sucks” and not “Because he suck”. Look if you have nothing better to say other than to insult people here then don’t post here.
And no there is no reason for us to fire Sam, we got beat and we got beat bad, but does that justify firing Sam, No. You can’t expect this team to be consistent and a contender after turning the corner a year ago. The reason we lost last night was not because of Sam, but because this team is inexperienced. The problem with TO fans is that they want everything right away, after one decent season they expect their teams to roll over everybody, well that aint happening. Look at Larry Brown when he coached the Nicks 2 or 3 years ago, they were horrible, but the talent was there. Is he a Bad Coach? No, but NY sucked because the players played bad. A coach can do so much, he can only tell the players what to do, and not do it for them. SO if you are going to start a fire Sam thread then start a fire BC thread too for not bringing in a few all-stars right away.


What comes around goes around.

Experience? I am pretty sure you mean the coach, LOL. He lacks experience and knowledge. LOL

LD V2.0
03-02-2008, 08:37 PM
What comes around goes around.

Experience? I am pretty sure you mean the coach, LOL. He lacks experience and knowledge. LOL

He has lots of experience and knowledge. His final years playing, before he became an assistant, he worked with KG a lot. KG gives Sam credit to helping him get to where he is today. Sam was like a player coach in his final days in the league.

The Claw
03-02-2008, 08:51 PM
He has lots of experience and knowledge. His final years playing, before he became an assistant, he worked with KG a lot. KG gives Sam credit to helping him get to where he is today. Sam was like a player coach in his final days in the league.

Sam is a great motivator, I do believe that.

He can be a good school counselor for all those high school kids.

But as a tactician, strategist and a team coach, HE LACKS KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE.

LD V2.0
03-02-2008, 09:13 PM
He has knowledge, he's been in the league for decades. Experience running the show, he lacks but he's gaining that now and he's improved across the board in leaps and bounds from year one.

The Claw
03-02-2008, 09:17 PM
He has knowledge, he's been in the league for decades. Experience running the show, he lacks but he's gaining that now and he's improved across the board in leaps and bounds from year one.

Maybe thats true but do you think he will be able to help this growing team in the long run. I dont think so.

Eventually his screaming will fall into deaf ears and his team will tune him out.

This team maybe this off season needs an experienced and established coach
that will command discipline and respect as this team aims for the ultimate price.

LD V2.0
03-02-2008, 09:27 PM
Sam has discipline and respect so just where are you going with this? You call what he does "screaming"? The man is a calm lake without a ripple compared to year one. He seems to be aggressive when the situation calls for it.

The Claw
03-02-2008, 09:33 PM
Where is the discipline and respect?

Sam continuously screams at jamario to not settle for jumpshots and drive the ball to the basket, what does Jamario and the rest of his teammates do after the screaming?

The Claw
03-02-2008, 09:36 PM
Just like teenagers and just like some of the posters here, screaming will work at first but eventually nobody pays attention.

The Claw
03-02-2008, 09:44 PM
What would you rather have for a Leader of a company?

A motivator or a strategist?

If you have already good character personnel (just like what the raptors have in abundance) they may not need a motivator on the sideline but someone who is an excellent strategist for the org. to succeed.

Bob_at_york
03-02-2008, 09:45 PM
He has knowledge, he's been in the league for decades. Experience running the show, he lacks but he's gaining that now and he's improved across the board in leaps and bounds from year one.
I haven't seen much improvement in the Xs and Os which is what i have always ripped him for.

LD V2.0
03-03-2008, 12:26 AM
No he hasn't but he's improved by leaps in bounds in terms of handling his players.

As for Jamario, well, you can't put a gun to his head and tell him to slash. Some guys just aren't willing to commit. Look at when Vince went to Jersey. At first he attacked and he was great but he went back to his old self fairly soon.

the red dragon
03-03-2008, 02:55 AM
Yeeeeah theys need to fire big Sam
he dont know how to use the pieces BC gave him
1. he runs no plays to get Kapono 3s
2. we dont get enough points in the paint and he refuses to use the DUNKING MACHINE known as Baston

LD V2.0
03-03-2008, 10:22 AM
lol, yeah because we all know Baston has shown countless times that he's a force in this league. :rolleyes:

He's more like a towel holding machine.

the life
03-03-2008, 10:59 AM
lol, yeah because we all know Baston has shown countless times that he's a force in this league. :rolleyes:

He's more like a towel holding machine.

raps should release him. they have another comparable big body anyway.

Bob_at_york
03-03-2008, 11:38 AM
raps should release him. they have another comparable big body anyway.

That would be a waste of money. He is worth something to us on the court (even if Sam disagrees with me) and as a trade chip.

juno
03-03-2008, 10:05 PM
Alright, my question is now, if he is fired what would English or Triano bring to the table. Are either what this team needs? Thoughts?

B2B
03-04-2008, 12:24 AM
Alright, my question is now, if he is fired what would English or Triano bring to the table. Are either what this team needs? Thoughts?

If sam is fired it should be for a significant upgrade not a lateral move. Triano is an x and o coach but how much experience does he have?. We want an experienced coach to bring more structure and stability.

juno
03-04-2008, 12:40 AM
If sam is fired it should be for a significant upgrade not a lateral move. Triano is an x and o coach but how much experience does he have?. We want an experienced coach to bring more structure and stability.

I agree, my concern was if it occurred this season, what would happen. However, I don't think BC would do it mid-season, unless the tailspin continues. I do think that sometime in the near future Triano is going to be a good coach, with who I don't know. I don't want the next coach to be a retread like Brown but an upcoming star like Mike Budenholzer, or maybe Triano.

dirtybird
03-04-2008, 12:41 AM
I think that Sam will get this year and next to make significant progress. If he gets replaced, I have been a advocating getting Rudy T with the Raptors. The Raptors would have to pay a pretty penny to get him, but it would be worth it.

nads83
03-04-2008, 12:42 AM
rick carlisle

nads83
03-04-2008, 12:42 AM
cito gaston?

nads83
03-04-2008, 12:43 AM
in all honesty. i like sam tho. i say we get some rebounders for him and then decide weather he can coach or not. has to hard with NO inside presence. NONE

juno
03-04-2008, 01:22 AM
in all honesty. i like sam tho. i say we get some rebounders for him and then decide weather he can coach or not. has to hard with NO inside presence. NONE

I wonder, as I agree with your quote, if BC is using the same approach to Toronto as he did with Phoenix, Phoenix is a great system but was not a championship system with him. I hope he changes his thinking and brings in a rebounder and a better 2 and 3. I do believe he has given Sam a lot to work with so far and I don't think Sam has does much with the pieces he was given. Maybe BC will get better players, he probably will, but I always want a coach that can take the good and make it great. I don't think it is Sam. I agree with Carlisle and especially RudyT. I also would like Cito back as the Jays Manager (another thread).

LD V2.0
03-04-2008, 08:53 AM
I wonder, as I agree with your quote, if BC is using the same approach to Toronto as he did with Phoenix, Phoenix is a great system but was not a championship system with him. I hope he changes his thinking and brings in a rebounder and a better 2 and 3. I do believe he has given Sam a lot to work with so far and I don't think Sam has does much with the pieces he was given. Maybe BC will get better players, he probably will, but I always want a coach that can take the good and make it great. I don't think it is Sam. I agree with Carlisle and especially RudyT. I also would like Cito back as the Jays Manager (another thread).

Dude do you realize how hard it is to just make the finals in the west? Since 2000 its been dominated by Lakers and Spurs dynasties. If the Suns were in the east they'd have made it multiple times because they were so much better than most of those duds who came out of the east over the last seven years. Look at that roster and tell me thats not a nice collection of talent that can do everything.

gbus
03-04-2008, 06:18 PM
Dude do you realize how hard it is to just make the finals in the west? Since 2000 its been dominated by Lakers and Spurs dynasties. If the Suns were in the east they'd have made it multiple times because they were so much better than most of those duds who came out of the east over the last seven years. Look at that roster and tell me thats not a nice collection of talent that can do everything.

Not to mention, and someone correct me if i'm wrong, Phoenix always had a legit big to pop up off the bench and bang inside. Kurt Thomas was there, one year anyways, maybe two, my memory is a little sketchy with this. Point is, BC brought Thomas in, or i think he did, can someone clarify?

the red dragon
03-04-2008, 08:57 PM
lol, yeah because we all know Baston has shown countless times that he's a force in this league. :rolleyes:

He's more like a towel holding machine.

Check him before you wreck him, he's a BC gem like Diaw. The brotha just needs playing time. Im not from the Gaza strip but dunking is all he knew when he was in Macabi. FG% higher than afro man in the NBA. Good roll player cause Bosh is feminine in gettin to the basket. Peep his style on youtube and Im sure he will be a force in your heart!:rolleyes:

The Claw
03-04-2008, 10:19 PM
The Campaign is still on !!! :clap::clap::clap:

The Claw
03-04-2008, 10:32 PM
Very delayed reaction to mismatches on both ends of the court especially on defense. What a genius.

B2B
03-04-2008, 10:44 PM
Very delayed reaction to mismatches on both ends of the court especially on defense. What a genius.

Unfortunately your wasting your breath. Sam's post game comments will consist of him blaming the players for their lack of effort because everyone knows he had nothing to do with the loss.

The Claw
03-04-2008, 10:51 PM
QUOTE=B2B;4518271]Unfortunately your wasting your breath. Sam's post game comments will consist of him blaming the players for their lack of effort because everyone knows he had nothing to do with the loss.[/QUOTE]

:pity::pity::pity::pity::pity:

The Claw
03-04-2008, 10:52 PM
Unfortunately your wasting your breath. Sam's post game comments will consist of him blaming the players for their lack of effort because everyone knows he had nothing to do with the loss.


:pity::pity::pity::pity::pity:

Sn1ch_Turna
03-04-2008, 11:18 PM
Fire Sam and hire Larry Brown - hes shown in Detroit his ability to take role players and turn them into champions

Bob_at_york
03-05-2008, 12:15 AM
Fire Sam and hire Larry Brown - hes shown in Detroit his ability to take role players and turn them into champions

I don't think Brown is the answer. He doesn't like young players and some people also thinks he doesn't like European players. I am not sure about the last part but he just isn't right. I like the suggestion of Rick earlier, I also wouldn't mind JVG.

Sn1ch_Turna
03-05-2008, 12:40 AM
and some people also thinks he doesn't like European players.


EGG-xactly

arsenalfan87
03-05-2008, 09:49 AM
Fire Sam and hire Larry Brown - hes shown in Detroit his ability to take role players and turn them into champions

Ok first...look what happened when Larry Brown went to New York. The guy has no class. you would thank a guy of his calaber would make something of the francise but he didnt do ****. Raptor fans should respect Sam because he should take alot of credit as to where exactly the Raptors are right now. Yea Colangelo made the acquisitions but you need a coach to guide the players. His philiosophy works best. You dont need coaches who always play their best player regardless of how well they play and their value. His system works well and will continue to work. Its respectable and all the lower-class players work hard to get more minutes and eventually produce. Here's an example...you think Chris Humphries would be able to prove himself and play well under Larry Brown? Hell no.

JaysFan87
03-05-2008, 10:15 AM
Ok first...look what happened when Larry Brown went to New York. The guy has no class. you would thank a guy of his calaber would make something of the francise but he didnt do ****. Raptor fans should respect Sam because he should take alot of credit as to where exactly the Raptors are right now. Yea Colangelo made the acquisitions but you need a coach to guide the players. His philiosophy works best. You dont need coaches who always play their best player regardless of how well they play and their value. His system works well and will continue to work. Its respectable and all the lower-class players work hard to get more minutes and eventually produce. Here's an example...you think Chris Humphries would be able to prove himself and play well under Larry Brown? Hell no.

Welcome to PSD……

I don’t know about that man....Larry brown is a HOF coach for a reason. He has won many things on many levels so to dismiss him as a coach is unfair. However u do have a point to say that Sam deserves some credit for taking the team to where it is now but if he is not the coach to take the team to the next level then we should be looking to replace him. This decision lies with BC but unless we have a drastic slide out of the playoffs or something like that then i am going to assume that sam will be around next year regardless of our playoff success. He signed him to a 3 year contract last off-season so I doubt he will “cut bait” so soon….

arsenalfan87
03-05-2008, 10:19 AM
Welcome to PSD……

I don’t know about that man....Larry brown is a HOF coach for a reason. He has won many things on many levels so to dismiss him as a coach is unfair. However u do have a point to say that Sam deserves some credit for taking the team to where it is now but if he is not the coach to take the team to the next level then we should be looking to replace him. This decision lies with BC but unless we have a drastic slide out of the playoffs or something like that then i am going to assume that sam will be around next year regardless of our playoff success. He signed him to a 3 year contract last off-season so I doubt he will “cut bait” so soon….

Ya I agree with you. Brown was a HOF coach but realistically look at the type of teams he coached. And when he was faced with an actual modern day challenge with the Knicks what did he accomplish. but ya this post season is gonna be the true test with Sam. Im predicting us to go two rounds but with the East getting stronger many question if we could actually go that far. We will see though. best of luck to the raps!

JaysFan87
03-05-2008, 10:28 AM
Ya I agree with you. Brown was a HOF coach but realistically look at the type of teams he coached. And when he was faced with an actual modern day challenge with the Knicks what did he accomplish. but ya this post season is gonna be the true test with Sam. Im predicting us to go two rounds but with the East getting stronger many question if we could actually go that far. We will see though. best of luck to the raps!

i see where your coming from but u cant fault him for being on good teams. He coaches whoever he is given and to that he has done an amazing job. Coaching the knicks now OR at any time in the past 5 years would be challenging for any coach. The knick team could be one of the most dysfunctional team ever. Too many egos and too many players playing the same position. (really who needs 5 SG's on one team???). Personally i don’t think the best coach ever would have been able to coach the knicks to any success whatsoever. Not even Phil Jackson himself. And if u look back at all the great coaches in NBA history most of them were hard nose coaches that were tough on their players. So brown comes from the same mold as the rest of the great coaches.

But as for sam, like i said b4 he will be back next year for sure unless the team slides out of the playoff picture this year.

maxgraham
03-05-2008, 10:46 AM
anyone who leaves ford in that long while he's playing that selfishly needs to be questioned...

LD V2.0
03-05-2008, 11:12 AM
Check him before you wreck him, he's a BC gem like Diaw. The brotha just needs playing time. Im not from the Gaza strip but dunking is all he knew when he was in Macabi. FG% higher than afro man in the NBA. Good roll player cause Bosh is feminine in gettin to the basket. Peep his style on youtube and Im sure he will be a force in your heart!:rolleyes:

I know him. I saw the clips from overseas, I saw him in the limited action he got on a depleted Pacers roster, I saw him the first time around in limited action on a depleted Raptors roster and I've seen what he's done this year for Toronto in limited action? Boris Diaw? Yeah, maybe in Europe but not in North America. Here, he's a scrub at the end of the bench who can't even bench out Hump and Joey for junk time. Its funny how this amazing Diaw-like player could never find his way off the bench everywhere he's been in the league including here...TWICE.

B2B
03-05-2008, 11:37 AM
Yeeeeah theys need to fire big Sam
he dont know how to use the pieces BC gave him
1. he runs no plays to get Kapono 3s
2. we dont get enough points in the paint and he refuses to use the DUNKING MACHINE known as Baston

LD this is sarcasm and he's baiting you. Funny thing is you like Sam. The first line alone should give it away.

LD V2.0
03-05-2008, 11:49 AM
Yeah I like Sam but i know he comes with problems. I know he isn't the guy to bring this team a championship and have said it many times. However I've also said many times that right now he's the best option. No one in here has provided a better option. Only "fire him!!!"

Anyway, he's baiting me? Damn, he needs to work on that.

B2B
03-05-2008, 11:57 AM
Yeah I like Sam but i know he comes with problems. I know he isn't the guy to bring this team a championship and have said it many times. However I've also said many times that right now he's the best option. No one in here has provided a better option. Only "fire him!!!"

Anyway, he's baiting me? Damn, he needs to work on that.

I'm not questioning your stance on Sam. Just preventing you from arguing Baston's superstar status.

LD V2.0
03-05-2008, 12:09 PM
There is no argument. He's a dud. The guy didn't say superstar, he said Diaw-like. Maybe he's like Diaw in the fact that they both wear basketball shoes. Anyway, good job umpire.

B2B
03-05-2008, 12:18 PM
There is no argument. He's a dud. The guy didn't say superstar, he said Diaw-like. Maybe he's like Diaw in the fact that they both wear basketball shoes. Anyway, good job umpire.

I'm not sure whether to say no problem or be insulted.

dirtybird
03-05-2008, 01:38 PM
Yeah I like Sam but i know he comes with problems. I know he isn't the guy to bring this team a championship and have said it many times. However I've also said many times that right now he's the best option. No one in here has provided a better option. Only "fire him!!!"

Anyway, he's baiting me? Damn, he needs to work on that.

Sure I have. I suggested Rudy T, although I did say I would give him alittle more time before making the move.

The Claw
03-17-2008, 11:58 PM
This thread has to go with the Get rid of TJ thread.

The Claw
03-18-2008, 12:05 AM
Jeff Van Gundy can be one of the good candidates.

Bob_at_york
03-18-2008, 12:08 AM
Jeff Van Gundy can be one of the good candidates.

I thought the other Mitchell thread was replacing this one because of the poll question. Any ways, I like JVG but I think LD is right, he isn't the right coach for this team. I think Rick Carliale (spelling?) is the better choice.

The Claw
03-18-2008, 12:13 AM
I thought the other Mitchell thread was replacing this one because of the poll question. Any ways, I like JVG but I think LD is right, he isn't the right coach for this team. I think Rick Carliale (spelling?) is the better choice.

Let it be, pls dont delete this thread, we can revive it everytime Sam shows his moronic ways.

Yeah Rick Carlisle maybe better than JVG.

Euro_Fan
03-18-2008, 09:02 AM
How bout the coach that got friend from Chicago... forget his name... he was decent.

But really, i would like an expreianced coach what is it with toronto and getting crap rookie coaches... the only experianced one we had was Wilkins... but he was done and too old.

I wud kill to get Eddie Jordan... i think he outcoached mitchelle in every meeting of the wiz and raps last year. Even the hail mary 3 by peteroson game... we got outcoached, Jordan did all the right things and little tricks, like taking a timeout between freethrows, or putting full court pressure (which raps NEVER do).

Hard to find good coaches that are not locked up, but Rick Adelman is a good example. Just get someone who has had a team with a decent playoff run in the last 5 years instead of mitchell.

Bob_at_york
03-18-2008, 10:39 AM
Let it be, pls dont delete this thread, we can revive it everytime Sam shows his moronic ways..
I am not deleting it, i like it more than the other one. This one has history, I just didn't see the point in bringing it back right now. It makes us have the same conversations in two places at one time (or in TJ's case 6 places at one time). Gets confusing.

Yeah Rick Carlisle maybe better than JVG.
He has gotten closer to winning championships than JVG too.

The Claw
03-23-2008, 06:06 PM
Sam got outcoached AGAIN by his counterpart.

GROUNDS FOR TERMINATION:

1. Poor Game Recognition

2. Failure to design a good play after a timeout

3. Terrible substitution pattern, would leave the player w/ a hot hand on the bench for so long.

As Mr. Trump would normally say ...

YOU ARE FIRED SAM, YOU SHOULD LEAVE THE COURT NOW !!!

WaterBoy24
03-23-2008, 06:27 PM
Sweep.Sweep.Sweep.Sweep.Sweep.Sweep...first round exit...
7th spot is right there for the taking,this is just awful...Detroit...Brutal...
As for Smitch getting fired....Yep, I agree.
And I love Smitch'ssssss explaination every loss....we didn't shoot the ball well...LOL..great explanation...
How about u don't know how 2 coach and execute,your X's and O's are awful...oh yeah u D suck as always...play some zone...another thing I don't like is when the media ask him tough questions,he runs away,walks off the podium...what's with that...

More shats!
03-23-2008, 07:07 PM
Fire sam and sign Jeff Van Gundy!van gundy gat to the finals one time and a bunch of playoffs games he is the kind of coach we need to take the next step.

koreancabbage
03-23-2008, 07:50 PM
man, put our team up like we had at the beginning of the season,
Ford
Nesto
Bosh
Moon
Parker

HoopsMachine
03-25-2008, 10:36 AM
I agree but I think they are keeping TJ on the bench because of his current health issue. As for Bargnani... Im not really sure why he still starts.

LD V2.0
03-25-2008, 11:05 AM
Sam got outcoached AGAIN by his counterpart.

GROUNDS FOR TERMINATION:

1. Poor Game Recognition

2. Failure to design a good play after a timeout

3. Terrible substitution pattern, would leave the player w/ a hot hand on the bench for so long.

As Mr. Trump would normally say ...

YOU ARE FIRED SAM, YOU SHOULD LEAVE THE COURT NOW !!!

Grounds for keeping him
1. Now counting this season he has three years left on his contract. That's around 15 million owed.
2. He's young and inexperienced but improving. Colangelo can right off his deficiencies a lot easier than writing off over 15 million dollars and then on top of that signing another coach who would no doubt be high profiled this time and that means high priced. Something tells me MLSE doesn't jump for joy at the thought of paying a guy over 15 million over the next three seasons to go coach another team in the league.

HoopsMachine
03-25-2008, 11:59 AM
I thought the other Mitchell thread was replacing this one because of the poll question. Any ways, I like JVG but I think LD is right, he isn't the right coach for this team. I think Rick Carliale (spelling?) is the better choice.

Rick Carlisle will probably be taking up the job in Chicago next season...lol not sure what's up with him wanting to coach only central division teams.

LD V2.0
03-25-2008, 12:11 PM
Another chance to ***** slap the "backstabbing" Pistons?

LittleBosh
03-25-2008, 01:22 PM
Grounds for keeping him
1. Now counting this season he has three years left on his contract. That's around 15 million owed.
2. He's young and inexperienced but improving. Colangelo can right off his deficiencies a lot easier than writing off over 15 million dollars and then on top of that signing another coach who would no doubt be high profiled this time and that means high priced. Something tells me MLSE doesn't jump for joy at the thought of paying a guy over 15 million over the next three seasons to go coach another team in the league.

I don't believe Mitchell's contract doesn't contain a good termination for cause clause. And last time I checked, even Larry Brown was eventually forced into some kind of settlement with his contract claims.

HoopsMachine
03-27-2008, 12:09 AM
man, put our team up like we had at the beginning of the season,
Ford
Nesto
Bosh
Moon
Parker

lol looks like they read your suggestion and tried it out =P

The Claw
03-30-2008, 08:00 PM
Another brain cramp night by the COY.

thomas1
03-30-2008, 08:53 PM
I am certainly not a fan of Sam and I think he has many questionable calls, but lately I've started to see that the make up of this year's team doesn't produce results.
We have no body that drives to the basket (except for Bosh), last year we had Mo who did some of that TJ played more games and was in rythem and drove more often.
Kapono is just not fitting well he commits too many fouls/turnovers. Delfion is inconsistent. Bargnani has regressed and Garbo is out.

The Claw
03-30-2008, 08:56 PM
I am certainly not a fan of Sam and I think he has many questionable calls, but lately I've started to see that the make up of this year's team doesn't produce results.
We have no body that drives to the basket (except for Bosh), last year we had Mo who did some of that TJ played more games and was in rythem and drove more often.
Kapono is just not fitting well he commits too many fouls/turnovers. Delfion is inconsistent. Bargnani has regressed and Garbo is out.

That can be an argument, but he can make good use of what he have...

But Sam since he possessed a "play sticky note" and not a "play book", coaches of good teams have figured him out.

Spurred1
03-30-2008, 08:56 PM
Want Avery Johnson?

The Claw
03-30-2008, 08:57 PM
Want Avery Johnson?

No thanks,

We want Carlisle or JVG.

The Claw
04-04-2008, 09:37 PM
Even a mediocre coach(Sam Vincent) who is about to be fired by MJ was able to figure out the Raptors Sam. LOL.

I cant take this anymore.

Zero successful plays after every timeout. PATHETIC !!!

dirtybird
04-05-2008, 10:14 AM
Grounds for keeping him
1. Now counting this season he has three years left on his contract. That's around 15 million owed.
2. He's young and inexperienced but improving. Colangelo can right off his deficiencies a lot easier than writing off over 15 million dollars and then on top of that signing another coach who would no doubt be high profiled this time and that means high priced. Something tells me MLSE doesn't jump for joy at the thought of paying a guy over 15 million over the next three seasons to go coach another team in the league.

So you're telling me that if BC thinks he's got the wrong coach, he'll be willing to waste the next couple years of Bosh's career because he's got a coach with 3 years left on his contract. IMO, if a GM thinks that his coach is not right for his team, he should be replaced IMMEDIATELY. The cost of not doing anything is much worse.

And I hardly think he's improved. In fact what has he improved in? If anything he's regressed. His strength is supposed to be forging team chemistry, which has clearly evaporated to some degree with TJ saying he'd be reluctant to share the PG duties past this season. The defense is worse, with very poor rotations, not closing out on shooters, and just boneheaded plays in general. The rebounding is just as bad. And most importantly, many players have failed to develop this year. Sam should be fired. I don't know who I would replace him with. But, I don't think that Sam could be even a transitional coach. In retrospect, the Raptors really missed out on not pursuing Adelman.

ryestye
04-05-2008, 10:38 AM
I think he has the players very confused on defence. They look confused and indecisive. Now that game in Atlanta, big coaching screw up in my opinion. Why not foul and have them shot two? Why have little TJ on the floor, who I could shoot over, instead of say Joey Graham. If a bigger player is on Bibby at the end, he doesn't make that shot. Why don't you just have all five guys with there feet on the three point line guarding anybody who crosses it instead of screwing around inside the three point line trying to avoid screens and making stupid switches. Aside from Atlanta, Sam is just not making it work.

LD V2.0
04-05-2008, 11:55 AM
So you're telling me that if BC thinks he's got the wrong coach, he'll be willing to waste the next couple years of Bosh's career because he's got a coach with 3 years left on his contract. IMO, if a GM thinks that his coach is not right for his team, he should be replaced IMMEDIATELY. The cost of not doing anything is much worse.

And I hardly think he's improved. In fact what has he improved in? If anything he's regressed. His strength is supposed to be forging team chemistry, which has clearly evaporated to some degree with TJ saying he'd be reluctant to share the PG duties past this season. The defense is worse, with very poor rotations, not closing out on shooters, and just boneheaded plays in general. The rebounding is just as bad. And most importantly, many players have failed to develop this year. Sam should be fired. I don't know who I would replace him with. But, I don't think that Sam could be even a transitional coach. In retrospect, the Raptors really missed out on not pursuing Adelman.

That would be a great point IF they could contend in the next two seasons but they can't. In the meantime this is the second year in a row Sam is going to be coaching in the playoffs. Its not like Bosh isn't going to get a chance to pick up PT in the playoffs.

You may not like Sam but all signs point to him being here next season. Thats being realistic.

Bricklayer
04-05-2008, 12:04 PM
In Sam's defence, I think the decision to start Bargnani at the beginning was "heavily suggested" by upper management, when it clearly wasn't working. This team had great chemistry last year with Rasho in the starting lineup and Brags coming off the bench. It must be tough to coach when B.C was telling the media every 3 days that he expects Bargs to start this season. Sam has made some mistakes, thats for sure....but I get this over whelming feeling that he's not the one calling all the shots.

LD V2.0
04-05-2008, 12:20 PM
Sam didn't even want to give Bargnani minutes last season and then Colangelo laid down the law.

Bricklayer
04-05-2008, 01:05 PM
B.C is obviously trying to justify Bargs for the #1 pick, which is getting harder and harder to swallow everytime he tries. Sam deffinately has his hands tied here a little bit, tough situation.

B2B
04-05-2008, 01:09 PM
Much like when a coach calls shots for players to execute, same applies for coaches. When the GM calls shot's the coach has to execute the plan of the GM. It's not one mans problem it's all. Who's breaking the chain the GM the coach or the players.

Bricklayer
04-05-2008, 01:17 PM
Much like when a coach calls shots for players to execute, same applies for coaches. When the GM calls shot's the coach has to execute the plan of the GM. It's not one mans problem it's all. Who's breaking the chain the GM the coach or the players.

I agree with what your saying, but I think B.C was making the wrong call when it came to Bargnani. No doubt he's a great GM, but you've got to think if he was to turn back the clock he might make a different selection with that #1 pick.

The Claw
04-05-2008, 09:58 PM
The Reigning Coach of the Year ...

ink
04-05-2008, 10:08 PM
I think it's the roster, although I don't think the coaching is very good.

The Claw
04-05-2008, 10:21 PM
I think it's the roster, although I don't think the coaching is very good.

The experiment by BC to surround Bosh with mediocre players and shooters to load the bench didn't work this season.

I hope he make drastic changes to provide Sam tools to work with and if it still doesnt work then it is time to ...........

FIRE THE COACH !!!

Yepeeeeeeeeee.

WaterBoy24
04-06-2008, 11:37 AM
This guy is just amazing....he is useless,ever since tj ford has come back the team has regress,and the team doesent want 2 play for him anymore....he has given Tj Ford a free ride...and thats why u see other players like...ie..Calderon,Bargnani,Delfino,Kapano,Bosh.. .not putting the effort.
Since Tj Ford has returned they have lost 15 out of 21,yes ppl...lost 15 games....ohh yeah and I love Smitche's media scrum...Quote; were in the playoffs...that's what counts...Unquote..are u kidding me..this guy can't be serious....Ure playing like start of the season,exibition.....dude ull be out in the first round playoffs...swept...anyway whats the point..his useless...just sick of stupidity...and his stupid comericials...get rit of him...

l8tr
04-06-2008, 12:30 PM
This guy is just amazing....he is useless,ever since tj ford has come back the team has regress,and the team doesent want 2 play for him anymore....he has given Tj Ford a free ride...and thats why u see other players like...ie..Calderon,Bargnani,Delfino,Kapano,Bosh.. .not putting the effort.
Since Tj Ford has returned they have lost 15 out of 21,yes ppl...lost 15 games....ohh yeah and I love Smitche's media scrum...Quote; were in the playoffs...that's what counts...Unquote..are u kidding me..this guy can't be serious....Ure playing like start of the season,exibition.....dude ull be out in the first round playoffs...swept...anyway whats the point..his useless...just sick of stupidity...and his stupid comericials...get rit of him...

I totally agree. Everything, from the media to experts for some reason cannot see what a lot of us fans see. That Sam seems to just have close ties with his Milwaukee roots and doesn't want to do anything to change it. I think above everything, deep down, Mitchell is actually a good guy that doesn't want to offend anybody and does what everybody else says. That's why Calderon played ahead of TJ, because TJ said that Calderon should. That's why he listened to Calderon to put TJ ahead of him to start because Mitchell needed to hear it from Calderon. That's why last year Mitchell put in Bargnani, because BC said so (but then we started winning from going 2-8). He's done everything to try and please his players, but that's not what we absolutely need from a good coach. It's just not.

LD V2.0
04-06-2008, 03:21 PM
I think last year's move with Bargnani was more about trying to hold on to his job when at the time it appeared that the new roster wasn't going to get him the extension he wanted.

The Claw
04-06-2008, 04:41 PM
Just like what Frank Thomas did, he changed his helmet.

I think Sam should change something.

LOL

More shats!
04-06-2008, 06:39 PM
Sam needs to play Primoz now.The team is lacking emotion and energy i dont want us to resign him but we need a boost of energy.Primoz may be that guy.

Just saying.

ink
04-06-2008, 06:41 PM
btw speaking of energy ... Linton Johnson's 10 day contract just expired ...


Linton Johnson's 10-day contract expired in the wake of last night's game. Johnson was brought in to, in the words of general manager Bryan Colangelo, "light a fire" under the lineup, but he had played a total of five combined minutes in two games heading into last night.

Source: Star (http://www.thestar.com/Sports/NBA/article/410722)

More shats!
04-06-2008, 06:49 PM
^I think we shoud give another 10 day contract to Linton Johnson.But just one more to see if he can show what he gat.

When he played vs New Orleans i think he did a good job.

rosco
04-06-2008, 08:20 PM
We all know this team can Win, we all know this team has Depth and its been proven. So the question is Why are they losing? What seems to be the problem? To me the players have givin up on Mitchell. Just look at them, there sick of all the bull**** and politics up till now. The players are tuning him out. It's so obvious. When that happens to a team, there's no way a Coach can stay Aboard. Personally, we need an Experienced Coach with History that knows how to utilize his players to there maximum potential and right now that aint happening. Players are regressing but Why? Mitchell is killing these Kids, he's making them Regress. Where 1 game below .500 in the EAST, this is the EAST where talking about. Come on and he says where in the playoffs though. Please he knows nothing about X's and O's, ya Sam's a good mentor and motivator but thats it and thats not working so where screwed right now............

The Claw
04-13-2008, 04:43 PM
Against the Pistons...

This game showcased how good an ASSISTANT COACH Sam is to Flip.

LOL

Zero successful plays after every time out.

He benched Moon(only had 18 minutes), and went small, what a brilliant - :puke: move knowing that his team need a rebounder down low.

Thats why BC on his last interview with Chuck alluded to the fact that some players are under-utilized, obviously referring to his brilliant - :puke: coach.

dirtybird
04-20-2008, 05:24 PM
This quote kind of encapsulates Smitch. In the postgame press conference following the Magic win, Sam goes on to say that "the things that hurt us had nothing to do with the lineup we had on the basketball court."

And here's a next one in response to getting killed in the 1st quarter: "guys, go back and look at that 1st quarter, the 3's that they made, we were there with hands up."

maxgraham
04-20-2008, 06:48 PM
the game changer today was that two mins when sam didnt call a time out (late 3rd early 4th?) and they went on a run, something needed to change, chuck was going on about it... you could see it... and he just let the magic continue their run... :(

Bob_at_york
04-20-2008, 09:52 PM
the game changer today was that two mins when sam didnt call a time out (late 3rd early 4th?) and they went on a run, something needed to change, chuck was going on about it... you could see it... and he just let the magic continue their run... :(

you don't think the first quarter was important?

Bob_at_york
04-20-2008, 09:53 PM
This quote kind of encapsulates Smitch. In the postgame press conference following the Magic win, Sam goes on to say that "the things that hurt us had nothing to do with the lineup we had on the basketball court."
That could be true. I think they would have given up the same looks from the perimeter no matter who he started.

And here's a next one in response to getting killed in the 1st quarter: "guys, go back and look at that 1st quarter, the 3's that they made, we were there with hands up."
I recorded the 1st quarter, I am going to go back and look at it but that is NOT how I remember it.

dirtybird
04-20-2008, 10:35 PM
Interesting what Kapono had to say about Smitch and SVG in the Sun.


Raptors' Jason Kapono is the only player in the series who has been on the benches of both coaches and, while he concedes similarities in the way they come across to the public, he sees two very different coaches.

"Stan is a workaholic," Kapono said. "He's in the gym every day, super early. He's big on film. I guarantee you he knows every play, every option, every wrinkle, every counter we run. Personnel-wise, I guarantee you he can give you all our tendencies and favourite moves. He's very thorough."

Mitchell is regarded as more of a players coach.

"Yeah, Sam will laugh and joke with you, but Stan is all business," Kapono said. "Outside of basketball, away from the gym, he's different. But when you're at the gym, he's there to work. He is disciplined. He's got a lot of rules and that's why some guys like him and some guys don't."

http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Basketball/2008/04/20/5336886-sun.html

clehmun
04-21-2008, 02:26 AM
i think the first quarter was very important... but i honestly knew raptors would come back... first quarter big leads are always hard to hold on to. but then again, the raptors used a lot of energy trying to come back.

sam is just trying to find excuses now... i'd like to see moon trying to defend turkoglu a little bit more...
first quarter, the magic hit 9 of 11 threes... they were mostly wide open.

bosh needs to stop struggling and step up the very next game. last year he needed a few games to figure out the nets defense and/or get going, he can't do that again. i expected him to play well in game 1, but apparently he "wasn't ready" for the defense lewis was playing :pity:

the raptors are capable of winning this series... almost everything that could go wrong went wrong for the raptors tonight.
our best advantage PG play was not there tonight to say the least... and in the 4th quarter we still had a chance...

this team needs a killer instinct... i wish they would trash talk (ie. deshawn stevenson, AI, hawks, etc). take it personal... motivate yourself...
i saw like atleast 2 times where the raptors helped one of the magic players up off the floor after they fell.. this is the NBA playoffs, i don't want sportsmanship award... they need to want to kill the other team!

the life
04-21-2008, 05:44 AM
This was our hope last year against Nets after the first game. Everybody believed that everything that could go wrong went wrong. but then we realise raptors just don't have a playoff type of intensity. we were hoping all series long for a change in intensity. this year the same story. but I know raptors don't have the brain to win a series. sam will never lead us to the promise land.

first game against orlando sam used all the players BC is high about just to save his butt. After that interview where BC talked about players not being used properly sam trys now to please his boss. and moon which is one of sam's favorite players didn't see the court very much.

LittleBosh
04-21-2008, 03:48 PM
If the Raptors lose out in Round 1, that's expected. But if the Raptors lose without putting up much of a battle, Mitchell's future will undoubtedly be discussed. It's clear Bryan Colangelo, the impatient general manager, won't sit still and watch this team decline. That isn't his way. Which puts Mitchell on the firing line for the second year in a row.

Mitchell is coaching for his job (http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists/Simmons/2008/04/20/5339226-sun.html)

RaptorFan89
04-23-2008, 08:54 AM
What was Sam thinking! 9 seconds on the clock down by one and thats the play he runs, its time to go to the hole and get contact not a 18ft shoot.We needed one point to extend the game, which at that point was going our way! WoW! I always like Sam but I have to question that play!

Bob_at_york
04-23-2008, 09:33 AM
What was Sam thinking! 9 seconds on the clock down by one and thats the play he runs, its time to go to the hole and get contact not a 18ft shoot.We needed one point to extend the game, which at that point was going our way! WoW! I always like Sam but I have to question that play!

I don't think it would have worked. I think Howard would have blocked Bosh and would have gotten the benefit of the doubt when it comes to contact. It would have been a better play than the one they ran but I would have liked to see a play run for somebody else:

1) Maybe they should have put Rasho on the court.

2) Maybe they should have run the AP off a screen play.

LD V2.0
04-23-2008, 09:36 AM
The ball shouldn't have gone to Bosh for the final play. A lot of guys had hot hands and Dwight was on Bosh.

dirtybird
04-23-2008, 09:42 AM
The ball shouldn't have gone to Bosh for the final play. A lot of guys had hot hands and Dwight was on Bosh.

I don't have a problem giving the ball to Bosh, but he should have been closer to the basket and driving. CB4 could always take a pull up 10ft jumper if it was anything. A long range jumper with your star player most likely gassed, didn't seem like the smartest play. 10 sec was more than enough time to get a good look.

And if that's a 15ft open jumper like Doug Smith is suggesting in his blog I must have been watching the wrong game. IMO, I would have been fine if they did the same play where Howard should have been called for the foul. They might have missed the contact the first time, but it's not likely to happen twice in a row.

LD V2.0
04-23-2008, 09:44 AM
Naw, Dwight backed off him to prevent the drive. He knew his reach and vertical could compensate for it and it did. Bosh's shot was noticeably affected by Dwight and if he tried to drive I think he would have got his *** stuffed.

Bob_at_york
04-23-2008, 09:57 AM
I don't have a problem giving the ball to Bosh, but he should have been closer to the basket and driving. CB4 could always take a pull up 10ft jumper if it was anything. A long range jumper with your star player most likely gassed, didn't seem like the smartest play. 10 sec was more than enough time to get a good look..
I agree Bosh was gassed and that was why the shot was a bad one.

And if that's a 15ft open jumper like Doug Smith is suggesting in his blog I must have been watching the wrong game. IMO, I would have been fine if they did the same play where Howard should have been called for the foul. They might have missed the contact the first time, but it's not likely to happen twice in a row.
Actually I think it would be likely that it would be ignored a second time. They didn't miss it, refs don't like deciding games like that.

Bob_at_york
04-23-2008, 11:37 AM
I find the last paragraph very interesting and telling when it comes to BC:

Bryan Colangelo, the Raptors president and general manager, spent some time defending Mitchell to various media types before the game.

He said, essentially, that Mitchell had absorbed far too much heat for the Game 1 loss; that Bosh's call-out of the coaching strategy was a product of frustration with the loss, not with the coach; that speculation about the coach's future was unfair.

Points taken, albeit with salt. It's humourous to hear NBA general managers gripe about the media's penchant for speculation on the job security of coaches. The speculation only exists because NBA GMs, on the whole, treat coaches as disposable.

Colangelo, for instance, employed six different sideline walkers during his decade-plus tenure as Phoenix Suns GM. He engineered a head-coaching shakeup, on average, about every couple of seasons. That's not to say Mitchell, who has coached for four seasons in Toronto, a little more than two on Colangelo's watch, is about to get fired. That's just to say the media's not so much stirring the pot as reading the trend.

Link: http://www.thestar.com/Sports/NBA/article/417376

dirtybird
04-23-2008, 01:34 PM
I don't think that you can honestly expect Colangelo to say anything else. If he does, he's creating a distraction for his already fragile team and undermining the coach.

WaterBoy24
04-28-2008, 10:23 PM
Fire Sam......
Out coached again....toronto is lucki they didn't get swept by orlando...
Anyway like I was preaching the whole year...Sam and Tj Ford...gotta go...
For the love of god I can't watch Tj ford drible..drible..drible..and through ball away...and Smitch famous media scrums saying...ohhhh we didn't shoot the ball well...ohhhh we get out rebound by every team...ohhh every single swingman kills us...Enough of Sam...
Time for a change..new coach,new ideas,new system,new players...

The Claw
04-28-2008, 10:27 PM
I told you Bob, this thread will last until Sam gets fired, lol. Thanks for not deleting it.

9 million is the number to either fire sam or not, BC has to contemplate its all worth it.

The Claw
04-28-2008, 10:30 PM
Fire Sam......
Out coached again....toronto is lucki they didn't get swept by orlando...
Anyway like I was preaching the whole year...Sam and Tj Ford...gotta go...
For the love of god I can't watch Tj ford drible..drible..drible..and through ball away...and Smitch famous media scrums saying...ohhhh we didn't shoot the ball well...ohhhh we get out rebound by every team...ohhh every single swingman kills us...Enough of Sam...
Time for a change..new coach,new ideas,new system,new players...

lol

WaterBoy24
04-28-2008, 10:36 PM
9 million..reallii..that's craziii for him,but if sam get's fired and say another team want's him,doesent the team have 2 eat the contract,buyout...something like that..
Ure gonna have 2 fire him..his not a fit for this team...

dirtybird
04-28-2008, 10:42 PM
I told you Bob, this thread will last until Sam gets fired, lol. Thanks for not deleting it.

9 million is the number to either fire sam or not, BC has to contemplate its all worth it.

That $9M is a sunk cost. BC needs to evaluate whether Sam can coach and more importantly can develop it's players. Can some of these flaws be solved by hiring a defensive guru and handing him the keys because alot of these problems are in halfcourt D.

My position is that they should fire Smitch. The main reason is because I don't think that he's doing the job to develop it's young players. I have not seen them improve in the fundamentals of rebounding, defense, and a habit of settling for contested jumpers. These are skills that must be learnt ASAP. I could deal with the bad coaching if I saw progress in those areas, but they haven't.

The Claw
04-28-2008, 11:15 PM
With the earnings MLE gained these two home playoff games roughly I think around 12 million, it will offset that 9 million they owe Sam if they buy him out.

canzano55
04-28-2008, 11:26 PM
From a rational point of view its unlikely that MLE will sanction a Sam buyout because 9 million is just way to much.

Lets give Smitch a roster that he can work with while complimenting his old school fundamentals and if he can't produce than next season we fire him.

The Claw
11-07-2008, 10:42 PM
Its about time to revive this thread !!!

Bob_at_york
11-07-2008, 10:44 PM
how did you find this one? Claw I know this is your baby but maybe you can add to the current one right here: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289919

The Claw
11-07-2008, 10:49 PM
how did you find this one? Claw I know this is your baby but maybe you can add to the current one right here: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289919

This thread has a sentimental value to me. :)

The Claw
11-07-2008, 10:55 PM
Anyway, can someone help me understand why the team is not applying what Sam has been constantly

preaching : Defense.

Are they just basically ignoring Sam? or Sam's defensive scheme is purely useless?

Transition defense and perimeter defense are still the weakness of this team.

LD V2.0
11-08-2008, 12:31 AM
Naw, Dwight backed off him to prevent the drive. He knew his reach and vertical could compensate for it and it did. Bosh's shot was noticeably affected by Dwight and if he tried to drive I think he would have got his *** stuffed.

Haha, damn this is old. I thought somebody had taken over my account until I looked at the date of this.

airjuice
11-08-2008, 05:23 AM
Excellent thread to bring back!

Claw, I 100% agree with you on this subject. Sam Mitchell is NOT the coach to take us to the next level. The same defensive mishaps keep happening again and again. I remember I told a friend after the Philly game if they give up that many open looks from downtown to a team that can shoot, they would have lost that game. But no, they were praised for giving up only 34% shooting to a team that can't shoot. O'neal is doing his part, BUT he can't do it alone. He can't guard everyone and can't rebound every ball by himself. Whatever coach Micthell is teaching in practice about defense is not working. The worst thing that happen to this team is when he won coach of the year. BC couldn't let him go after he won the award (because of BC efforts to boot) because he'd look like a fool firing the Coach of the Year. This team is still too soft, but O'neal and now Bosh are the only toughness the team has. I believe Mitchell's on a short leash here. He has all the tools to succeed and if this team goes for a early nose dive, I wouldn't be surprised to see a change made. Saunders is available. I would really like to see a coach with some real experience and a proven track winner. I'm soooo tired of watching this team make the same mistakes night after night, year after year. Guys scrambling around on defense not picking up there man, unneeded double teams on players that only need single coverage, thus leaving perimeter shooters wide open. okay, enough. Let me get off this soap box. :mad:

LD V2.0
11-08-2008, 05:44 PM
I think everyone agrees that Sam is an average coach at best. The thing is the team itself might not be ready to go to the next level until after the summer of 2010. The summer of 2010 is the most important time period of this Raptors franchise.

I've thought about this a lot today what I've been working here from home. Colangelo needs to get Bosh an elite coach by that time. I think he needs to wait for that coach to come along. If that coach is there this summer then selling the buyout will be easier. If not then we're probably waiting another year.

This "any coach but Sam" mentality which has been getting popular over the past two seasons isn't practical or realistic.

Halladay
11-08-2008, 06:16 PM
The problem is, how many good coaches are out their at this point? I mean, obviously there's going to be coaches available at any given time but I don't see who's even a potential suitor for this team.

Mirza Delibasic
11-08-2008, 06:25 PM
The problem is, how many good coaches are out their at this point? I mean, obviously there's going to be coaches available at any given time but I don't see who's even a potential suitor for this team.

Flip?

SensandRaps
11-08-2008, 07:52 PM
The problem is, how many good coaches are out their at this point? I mean, obviously there's going to be coaches available at any given time but I don't see who's even a potential suitor for this team.

avery johnson maybe?

LD V2.0
11-08-2008, 11:37 PM
I fail to see how Avery Johnson would be any better than Sam. He suffered from many of the same faults only he had a better team...


The problem is, how many good coaches are out their at this point? I mean, obviously there's going to be coaches available at any given time but I don't see who's even a potential suitor for this team.

Well thats why you take advantage of Sam Mitchell's contract and you patiently wait for the right coach. Its not like this team, right now, no matter who's coaching is a legit contender.

The Claw
11-09-2008, 02:09 PM
I think I mentioned last season that Rick Carlisle will be a good fit for this team but since he is no longer available, I think Jeff Van Gundy might be a good one as well.

dirtybird
11-09-2008, 02:26 PM
I think I mentioned last season that Rick Carlisle will be a good fit for this team but since he is no longer available, I think Jeff Van Gundy might be a good one as well.

I think that JVG would be a good fit as well. The Raptors are already one of the slowest pace teams in the league, so it's not like he's going to slow them down any more than they already are.

The Claw
11-10-2008, 11:44 PM
Sam refused to put Moon on the floor to defend Pierce in the dying minutes. Such a stubborn idiot. I know that Kapono was needed for offense but is it not that close games are won by excellent defense. Sam again got outcoached tonight. He will give Raptors wins but will never put them over the top because of his terrible schemes and poor game recognition.

thomas1
11-11-2008, 12:05 AM
Sam refused to put Moon on the floor to defend Pierce in the dying minutes. Such a stubborn idiot. I know that Kapono was needed for offense but is it not that close games are won by excellent defense. Sam again got outcoached tonight. He will give Raptors wins but will never put them over the top because of his terrible schemes and poor game recognition.

I am not cheering for Sam and I agree with you however, this is still a coach's decision you go with your gut. But what I do find amazing is the production you got from Parker, Kapono and even Joey, while at the same time Bosh produced little. I think its the coach's job to have the team playing at an optimal level.
Why do we always see this in spurts with the Raptors? I'm not advocating that he has all player ready to score 20 pts/each and defend (although that would be welcomed) but at least create some productivity and consistency from the PG, wings and bigs game in and game out.

rufftrini
11-11-2008, 12:12 AM
Sam refused to put Moon on the floor to defend Pierce in the dying minutes. Such a stubborn idiot. I know that Kapono was needed for offense but is it not that close games are won by excellent defense. Sam again got outcoached tonight. He will give Raptors wins but will never put them over the top because of his terrible schemes and poor game recognition.

Your absolutely right! The Raps do have the talent and skill, we just lack the coach who can run the RIGHT plays during the game and down the stretch. I

Is it just me, or does Smitch lack the skills to inspire and engage his team to play with more passion. This team looked awful when playing under pressure, sam did a poor job at keeping his team focused and drawing up plays to free up Bosh in the last quarter.

FIRE SAM MITCHELL BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. I HOPE BC READS THIS THREAD.

The Claw
11-12-2008, 11:23 PM
Sam should be placed on the Inactive List ASAP !!!

His philosophy of allowing his players to shoot themselves out of a funk is ridiculous.

So what if Bosh-Bargs-JO scored 70 points.

Boston big three scored 70 points as well but they were able to stop the raptors to score more points either.

Sam is a stubborn old dude who has not achieved nothing, he just got lucky that he won the COY that year because Mo P made a miracle shot against Washington.

As I said before, BC made a HUGE mistake of giving him more than 2 years of contract. Now BC is so bound to ride Sam's contract out 'til the teachers board of MLSE tell him that they had enough of Sam. For now BC is forced to scramble possibly selling the future of this team(Bargs) just to get Sam more pieces to work with.

Bob_at_york
11-12-2008, 11:41 PM
Sam is a stubborn old dude who has not achieved nothing, he just got lucky that he won the COY that year because Mo P made a miracle shot against Washington.
I disagree. I don't think Sam is old especially when you compare him to other head coaches.

The Claw
11-13-2008, 01:50 AM
Yes u r exactly right Bob he definitely not as old as the other coaches in the league but definitely he is way older than me but I don't know about u though, I think u sound to be older than him.

the life
11-13-2008, 08:49 AM
Look what a good coach can do to a supposedly bad team NYK.
D’aitoni turned the team around without major changes to the roaster.
on the other hand smitch play the same idiotic tune over and over regardless the players are in the roaster. is not the players dear fans is the coach from beginning to the end. before any trade we should fire the coach and see how good this group of players can be.
Would we trade just to give smitch yet another chance? How many roasters needs him to fail?

B2B
11-13-2008, 09:12 AM
look what a good coach can do to a supposedly bad team nyk.
D’aitoni turned the team around without major changes to the roaster.
On the other hand smitch play the same idiotic tune over and over regardless the players are in the roaster. Is not the players dear fans is the coach from beginning to the end. Before any trade we should fire the coach and see how good this group of players can be.
Would we trade just to give smitch yet another chance? How many roasters needs him to fail?

+1

boms-4
11-13-2008, 09:41 AM
how many more threads on this topic do we need?

mpickup
11-13-2008, 09:51 AM
great point ... does Popovich sit back after winning his 3rd championship and say "well, the ball DID bounce our way" ... NO, it's hard work, smart planning/coaching, and great players ... not as random as a few shots falling by chance, like our coach may suggest.

Steely McBeam
11-13-2008, 10:26 AM
Not that it matters now but i thought smitch should have been replaced when larry brown was dying for a job

mpickup
11-13-2008, 10:48 AM
well, guys like Flip Saunders, Avery Johnson, and Jeff Van gundy are out there now ...

Rapthug
11-15-2008, 09:15 AM
C'mon guys......don't players have to make plays? And sometimes, doesn't the other team makes plays and we don't, or maybe we just don't make shots???

....sorry, just reliving some of Sam's BS.....I love it how he never says it's his fault for not/never making any adjustments

Someone said it before that the worst thing that happened to the Raps was Sam winning COY. That is 100% correct.

He has got to go!!!!!!!! Fire Sam Mitchell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

nads83
11-15-2008, 03:32 PM
well...its hard to win with such inconsistanty from the wings. this roster has a huge flaw. we are only three deep at the 2 and 3 and the three arent very good overall ball players

BluejaysFan08
11-15-2008, 06:42 PM
las time i check you dont know anything because moon is definetly not a consistant

P.I.
11-16-2008, 02:50 AM
C'mon guys......don't players have to make plays? And sometimes, doesn't the other team makes plays and we don't, or maybe we just don't make shots???

....sorry, just reliving some of Sam's BS.....I love it how he never says it's his fault for not/never making any adjustments

Someone said it before that the worst thing that happened to the Raps was Sam winning COY. That is 100% correct.

He has got to go!!!!!!!! Fire Sam Mitchell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

I said that from TIME. we went from a horrible team to an .500 team. How the hell should this guy deserve coach of the year for that. I kind of blame Colangelo too for extending his contract... Smitch just wont change his style, he doesnt even think toughness is key too winning, that almost like saying Yea let KG talk smack to Jose and Jose you take it ok.

Smitch fire this guy....... its over due a long time ago.

B2B
11-16-2008, 08:50 AM
Today I'm reading that Bargnani will start at SF against Miami. I know he has been playing well and deserves court time but can someone please explain this move to me because all of last year Moon owned Miami & especially Marion?. Even if Bargnani does well, I don't get this. Why change what has been proven to work before it has failed to produce again?.

Mitch I hope you can explain your stupidity at the end of the game if things go wrong. Saying we did not make our shots just doesn't cut it.:bla:

I hope for Sams sake Bargnani does well.:pity:

Beach Rock
11-16-2008, 11:28 AM
I hope for Sams sake Bargnani does well.:pity:


I hope for Bargnani's sake Bargnani does well. Being thrown into the position by default instead of being put there when the match-up favors your starting prob isn't the best way to go. Especially with all the Bargs critics waiting in the wings for him to trip up this year. Risky for his confidence this is.

The Claw
11-18-2008, 11:41 PM
With Sam Mitchell at the helm...

A healthy raptors team - they will be a first round playoff team
A less one starter raptors team - they will be a .500 team
A less two starter raptors team - they are a lottery bound team

As I said before, Sam will never take this team over the top
Sam's team have no structure offensively and defensively

Last year, they were one of the worst 3 point defenders

Against Orlando tonight they gave up 33 points from the 3 point line. UNFORGIVABLE !!!

Worst perimeter and transition defense system

We dont need lock out defenders, its the system that is failing and who is in charge?

SAM

Bob_at_york
11-19-2008, 12:22 AM
With Sam Mitchell at the helm...

A healthy raptors team - they will be a first round playoff team
A less one starter raptors team - they will be a .500 team
A less two starter raptors team - they are a lottery bound team
I don't think it is that cut and dry. Are you saying that Bosh and company can't improve their skills because I think Bosh is much better than he was 2 years ago. Which to me means a healthy team should be able to do better.


As I said before, Sam will never take this team over the top
Sam's team have no structure offensively and defensively

Last year, they were one of the worst 3 point defenders

Against Orlando tonight they gave up 33 points from the 3 point line. UNFORGIVABLE !!!

Worst perimeter and transition defense system

We dont need lock out defenders, its the system that is failing and who is in charge?

SAM[/QUOTE]
So of all the things you decided to rip on... you are deciding to rip on the fact that the Magic hit 11 threes? Does it matter to you that the Magic came into the game in the bottom 3rd in the league in 3%? I think Nelson's play was the difference maker. He made his shots and then when they tried helping out, he passed it to open teammates.

LD V2.0
11-19-2008, 01:25 AM
Here's a thought. This is Sam's first head coaching gig. This is Alex English's first coaching gig. Triano and Evans are excellent at working with players one on one but neither is a strong tactician. This coaching staff has no expert tactician on either side of the ball, period. Sam is a great players coach but he has no one on that bench, not one of them, who truely compliments him. Not one of them. Not one of them rounds out areas where Sam is weak. I think Bob had it partially right a while back. This team needs Kevin O'neal on the bench next to Sam or more accurately, this team needs a Kevin O'Neal type guy on the bench next to Sam. A guy who has a higher understanding of one side of the ball, a guy who adds a dynamic to defensive side of the ball. Sam can get this team scoring, he's shown it season after season but I think he needs a true assistant to compliment him.

Mirza Delibasic
11-19-2008, 01:39 AM
Here's a thought. This is Sam's first head coaching gig. This is Alex English's first coaching gig. Triano and Evans are excellent at working with players one on one but neither is a strong tactician. This coaching staff has no expert tactician on either side of the ball, period. Sam is a great players coach but he has no one on that bench, not one of them, who truely compliments him. Not one of them. Not one of them rounds out areas where Sam is weak. I think Bob had it partially right a while back. This team needs Kevin O'neal on the bench next to Sam or more accurately, this team needs a Kevin O'Neal type guy on the bench next to Sam. A guy who has a higher understanding of one side of the ball, a guy who adds a dynamic to defensive side of the ball. Sam can get this team scoring, he's shown it season after season but I think he needs a true assistant to compliment him.

That's assuming that Sam listens to his staff. And that my friend, is a very big assumption.

LD V2.0
11-19-2008, 01:46 AM
And what makes you say this? Give me real life accounts from people in the business who have suggested Sam isn't willing to listen to people around him.

Mirza Delibasic
11-19-2008, 01:53 AM
Hmm, how about a disgruntled fellow named Jim Todd? Other than that, I'll be sure to ask my man Rasho what he thinks about Sam when he rolls into town for the Serbian New Year. Cool?

And, a man's character (in this case Smitch's stubbornness) can easily be seen by his lack of integrity in admitting his mistakes. He will never come out and say, I messed up by subbing this guy instead of that guy. Nah, he always shovels the blame like fresh snow off a driveway.

LD V2.0
11-19-2008, 02:19 AM
Hmm, how about a disgruntled fellow named Jim Todd? Other than that, I'll be sure to ask my man Rasho what he thinks about Sam when he rolls into town for the Serbian New Year. Cool?

And, a man's character (in this case Smitch's stubbornness) can easily be seen by his lack of integrity in admitting his mistakes. He will never come out and say, I messed up by subbing this guy instead of that guy. Nah, he always shovels the blame like fresh snow off a driveway.

I challenge that. Give me a Todd quote where he criticizes Mitchell for this. I fail see what Rasho has to do with anything, he's not even in management.

Explain to me how the second paragraph has anything to do with his willingness to listen to people who he chose to assist him.

Bramaca
11-19-2008, 10:26 AM
I challenge that. Give me a Todd quote where he criticizes Mitchell for this. I fail see what Rasho has to do with anything, he's not even in management.

Jim Todd did say that the main readon why he wasn't coming back was because Mitchell didn't listen to the assistants opinions. It might take a while to find the quote but Todd did make it a few weeks after he had joined the Bucks.

Bob_at_york
11-19-2008, 10:51 AM
Jim Todd did say that the main readon why he wasn't coming back was because Mitchell didn't listen to the assistants opinions. It might take a while to find the quote but Todd did make it a few weeks after he had joined the Bucks.

that sounds familiar but I can't find a link for that anywhere.

The Claw
11-19-2008, 11:40 PM
I don't think it is that cut and dry. Are you saying that Bosh and company can't improve their skills because I think Bosh is much better than he was 2 years ago. Which to me means a healthy team should be able to do better.

Worst perimeter and transition defense system

We dont need lock out defenders, its the system that is failing and who is in charge?

SAM

Bob :
So of all the things you decided to rip on... you are deciding to rip on the fact that the Magic hit 11 threes? Does it matter to you that the Magic came into the game in the bottom 3rd in the league in 3%? I think Nelson's play was the difference maker. He made his shots and then when they tried helping out, he passed it to open teammates.[/QUOTE]

To address your first response:

What I said was that even though all the raptors players are healthy, Sam will never take them over the top. He will guide them to winning games but never will take them to the promise land. To make you happy though a second round playoff appearance the most. By the way I never said that Bosh will not improve, he will and he has shown that so far but will Sam give him a ring or a taste of the finals, I dont think so !!!

To address your second response:
I dont care if they are playing against the number one 3 point shooting team or the worst 3 point shooting team, as long as they dont collapse and give up that perimeter that's all I care about.

The Claw
11-19-2008, 11:44 PM
Here's a thought. This is Sam's first head coaching gig. This is Alex English's first coaching gig. Triano and Evans are excellent at working with players one on one but neither is a strong tactician. This coaching staff has no expert tactician on either side of the ball, period. Sam is a great players coach but he has no one on that bench, not one of them, who truely compliments him. Not one of them. Not one of them rounds out areas where Sam is weak. I think Bob had it partially right a while back. This team needs Kevin O'neal on the bench next to Sam or more accurately, this team needs a Kevin O'Neal type guy on the bench next to Sam. A guy who has a higher understanding of one side of the ball, a guy who adds a dynamic to defensive side of the ball. Sam can get this team scoring, he's shown it season after season but I think he needs a true assistant to compliment him.

Very good point, the only problem though is: if BC can find someone who once in a while can talk down to Sam and we all hope Sam will listen.

Bob_at_york
11-20-2008, 12:31 AM
To address your second response:
I dont care if they are playing against the number one 3 point shooting team or the worst 3 point shooting team, as long as they dont collapse and give up that perimeter that's all I care about.

SO you are cool with them giving up the INSIDE? Sometimes you need to give up something and I think 3s are the tougher shots and having more guys inside for rebounding purposes works for me.

LD V2.0
11-20-2008, 12:45 AM
Very good point, the only problem though is: if BC can find someone who once in a while can talk down to Sam and we all hope Sam will listen.

"Talk down" to Sam? I'm talking about someone who is a defensive expert who will talk TO Sam. Someone who could serve as a "defensive coordinator".

dirtybird
11-20-2008, 12:53 AM
I have serious doubts that Sam would give any coach the autonomy to doing anything like run the defense. I remember hearing Mitchell say that he wants only his voice to be heard from the sidelines and if an assistant coach were to break that "rule" they would be sent packing.

Here's why I would fire Smitch (in no particuar order):
1) Lack of defensive rotations (esp leading to wide open 3's and unimpeded attacks to the rim, but most the former)

2) Unnecessary/useless doubling and traps (including who they double and where). This often to leads to a wide open 3 on the 1st pass (esp prevalent in the Nets series)

3) Inability to convert 3-on-2, 4-on-2, or fastbreaks in general

4) Plays out of a timeout are much to be desired (e.g. Bosh long jumper when he's clearly exhausted at the end of game 2 vs the Magic with 10s left)

5) Matchups that often magnifies a player's weakness and/or minimizes their strength (e.g. Kapono on Pierce or Dixon on Tmac and Kobe). It's no coincidence that Kobe scored 81 on the Raps

6) Misusing Kapono and others (Kapono should never be driving in traffic)

7) Poor Substitutions

8) Lack of in game adjustments

9) Lack of play diversity (it either give the ball to Bosh (on the block or at the top of the key, pick & roll/pop, or a quick jumper off a curl)

10) 4th quarter meltdowns or blowing big leads (including not calling timeouts soon enough and leaving scrubs in there too long to whittle away the big lead)

11) Ignoring Bosh (or hot players) at the end of games or when he has a very favourable matchup (e.g. Croshere trying to guard him)

12) The large number of wide open shots allowed and defensive breakdowns

13) Lack of boxing for rebounds

14) Other teams often have no problem imposing their will on the Raptors and getting them to play their type of game.

The Claw
11-20-2008, 01:33 AM
SO you are cool with them giving up the INSIDE? Sometimes you need to give up something and I think 3s are the tougher shots and having more guys inside for rebounding purposes works for me.

I did the math and I thought 3 is higher than 2 so I am definitely cool on giving up the middle where bosh oneal and bargs r all there than leaving the 3 point area.

The Claw
11-20-2008, 01:38 AM
"Talk down" to Sam? I'm talking about someone who is a defensive expert who will talk TO Sam. Someone who could serve as a "defensive coordinator".

it might take a miracle for BC to find someone to talk to Sam POLITELY about defense. Good Luck to you and BC. Another easy option although expensive is to.. surprise Sam with a pink slip.

Bramaca
11-20-2008, 02:06 AM
A coach that possibly could be available in the near future or next offseason is Jordan from Washington. From what I remember he is a fairly good coach in all aspects of the game but I haven't seen enough of him to be sure.

Bob_at_york
11-20-2008, 09:31 AM
I did the math and I thought 3 is higher than 2 so I am definitely cool on giving up the middle where bosh oneal and bargs r all there than leaving the 3 point area.

That's funny I did the math too, the average FG% for a team this year is 44.4% and the average 3% is 35%. Now at the same time, this doesn't take into account the fact that the 3% is pulling down the FG%, it would probably go up a couple of percentage points if you take it out. So I could make an argument that we are comparing 46% to 35%. Last time I checked 46 is higher than 35.

Kaptain Kanada
11-20-2008, 10:17 AM
That's funny I did the math too, the average FG% for a team this year is 44.4% and the average 3% is 35%. Now at the same time, this doesn't take into account the fact that the 3% is pulling down the FG%, it would probably go up a couple of percentage points if you take it out. So I could make an argument that we are comparing 46% to 35%. Last time I checked 46 is higher than 35.


Yeah, but it gets a lot closer than that if you do the math on how the scoring works out on those shots.

Assuming that there are 100 shots per game (to make my math easier for me), and not taking into account shooting fouls:

46% X 2points on 100 shots = 92 points.

35% X 3 points on 100 shots = 105 points.

So all those wiiiide open 3's that are getting rained on us will cost us extra points. Even if it is a slightly lower percentage shot.

Frank Costanza
11-20-2008, 03:15 PM
FIRE SAM MITCHELL TODAY PLEASE MLSE PLEASE BRIAN ,, for the love of all the fans that love and cherish this team

Bob_at_york
11-20-2008, 04:32 PM
Yeah, but it gets a lot closer than that if you do the math on how the scoring works out on those shots.

Assuming that there are 100 shots per game (to make my math easier for me), and not taking into account shooting fouls:

46% X 2points on 100 shots = 92 points.

35% X 3 points on 100 shots = 105 points.

So all those wiiiide open 3's that are getting rained on us will cost us extra points. Even if it is a slightly lower percentage shot.

I knew somebody was going to bring that up. Like you said, it doesn't take into account the fact that more fouls occur inside which lead to free throws.

In the end, I don't think this is something that we can blame on Mitchell. I think we defend the 3-point line well when we want to. Sometimes you need to pick your poison.

The Claw
11-20-2008, 10:30 PM
That's funny I did the math too, the average FG% for a team this year is 44.4% and the average 3% is 35%. Now at the same time, this doesn't take into account the fact that the 3% is pulling down the FG%, it would probably go up a couple of percentage points if you take it out. So I could make an argument that we are comparing 46% to 35%. Last time I checked 46 is higher than 35.

I have to earn a living today so I was not able to get back to you right away.
California's cost of living is very expensive.

Anyway, my point is that defending the 3 point area should be the utmost important on Sam's playbook. As I said I dont care if they are playing against a team with the highest 3 point average or the lowest, what matters most is the number of shots as what Kaptain Kanada alluded to on his response to your mathematician point of view. They should limit the opponent's three point attempts.

Bottom line is ... either Sam has no clue in stopping the perimeter or his players are not listening to him.

The Claw
11-20-2008, 10:35 PM
I knew somebody was going to bring that up. Like you said, it doesn't take into account the fact that more fouls occur inside which lead to free throws.

In the end, I don't think this is something that we can blame on Mitchell. I think we defend the 3-point line well when we want to. Sometimes you need to pick your poison.

Does that mean that Sam had nothing to do of his teams dismal performance on defending the 3 point area last season, last time I checked the Raptors were the worst team, giving up more 3's.

Bricklayer
11-20-2008, 11:45 PM
I have been reluctant to jump on the "fire Same Mitchell bandwagon", but after reading the thread "who hasn't met your expectations" thread I got to thinking.

With the exception of a couple players,( Moon, Solomon, Kapono) most of this years roster is playing at or above their expectations. Conventional wisdom would lead you to believe that a team that has the following.

1. CB4 playing at an M.V.P type level
2. J.O owning the paint, and taking care or our rebounding issues
3. Jose being.... well, Jose
4. An improved Bargnani

One would think that this team would have a better record then 6-5. Most of this has been contributed to our issue at the wing spots, but what happens if Colangelo make a move to bring in that 2/3 we so desperatly need and this team is still underachieving? Will the axe finally fall on Mitchell? I don't think Sam is a bad coach, but sometimes a change is needed, for both parties involved. Hopefully this team doesn't have to fall in the first round again for B.C to make this move.

Bob_at_york
11-21-2008, 12:51 AM
[/B]

Does that mean that Sam had nothing to do of his teams dismal performance on defending the 3 point area last season, last time I checked the Raptors were the worst team, giving up more 3's.

they weren't the worst but they were in the bottom 5 in made 3s. But you could make an argument that was because they had no inside presence (JO) and therefore giving up the 3 attempts was better than allowing dunks.

Bob_at_york
11-21-2008, 12:55 AM
I have to earn a living today so I was not able to get back to you right away.
California's cost of living is very expensive..
Don't worry about it man, I am patient. And I am lucky enough to get be able to get on the internet a work.


Anyway, my point is that defending the 3 point area should be the utmost important on Sam's playbook. As I said I dont care if they are playing against a team with the highest 3 point average or the lowest, what matters most is the number of shots as what Kaptain Kanada alluded to on his response to your mathematician point of view. They should limit the opponent's three point attempts.

Bottom line is ... either Sam has no clue in stopping the perimeter or his players are not listening to him.

So you want the guys to crowd the shooters, allow the opposition's wings to drive by them and in the end, we hope that JO and Bosh don't foul out while playing help D? I don't know if I like that strategy. It can work with some match-ups but against the best wings in the league that is making their job way too easy.

The Claw
11-21-2008, 01:12 AM
they weren't the worst but they were in the bottom 5 in made 3s. But you could make an argument that was because they had no inside presence (JO) and therefore giving up the 3 attempts was better than allowing dunks.

Well than that would make my argument more valid this season since with JO's presence in the middle, a MVP Bosh and an improved Barg, there is no reason for the perimeter defenders this season to collapse, leave their man outside allowing the opponent to jack up 23-3's(e.g. against Orlando) all night.

Again its either Sam dont recognize that or his players dont listen to him.

The Claw
11-21-2008, 01:19 AM
Don't worry about it man, I am patient. And I am lucky enough to get be able to get on the internet a work.



So you want the guys to crowd the shooters, allow the opposition's wings to drive by them and in the end, we hope that JO and Bosh don't foul out while playing help D? I don't know if I like that strategy. It can work with some match-ups but against the best wings in the league that is making their job way too easy.

Its not about luck... man, using the internet at work for research or business in an honest way to earn a living is one thing and using it to express thoughts about Sam's defensive scheme on PSD is another thing.

As you said, you pick your poison. I would rather gamble the best wings in the league(like D.Wade) to dunk against JO than having him knock down a 3.

Again as what Copernicus said, 3 is higher than 2.

I will respond to any of your responses again tomorrow, I have to sleep and wake up early for work. I am not LUCKY enough to use the internet for personal use tomorrow.