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View Full Version : Bigger Gap: (Kareem vs Hakeem) or (K.Malone vs C.Barkley)



JordansBulls
08-18-2007, 12:48 PM
Which one is their a wider gap between the players in who is better?

Bigger Gap: (Kareem vs Hakeem) or (K.Malone vs C.Barkley)

It doesn't matter who you choose as better, just which two has the bigger gap in who is better.

DreamShaker
08-18-2007, 05:03 PM
Hakeem is miles ahead of Kareem....who is one of the most overrated players in NBA History.....Barkley and Malone are not that far apart...

GregOden#1
08-18-2007, 05:11 PM
Both Malone and Kareem have a big edge on Hakeem/Barkley.

DreamShaker
08-18-2007, 05:15 PM
Both Malone and Kareem have a big edge on Hakeem/Barkley.

How does Kareem have an edge on dream my good sir???? Please explain this to me....

GregOden#1
08-18-2007, 05:25 PM
How does Kareem have an edge on dream my good sir???? Please explain this to me....

I talk bad about Kareem alot because some ignorant posters, namely JB, post sonsequential garbage about Kareem being equal or better than Wilt, so as to glorify MJ, but in truth Kareem is a top 5 player of all time.

He has 20 some years of dominance and he was a top 5 player in the league for around 15 of those years, from 69-70 to 84-85. At his peak he was a 34/16 monster who, along with Robertson, carried Milwaukee to their only championship. Hakeem's peak wasn't as good as Kareem's and his peak didn't last as long as Kareem's either. Hakeem really only beats him on defense, everything else Kareem was better.

DreamShaker
08-18-2007, 05:39 PM
I talk bad about Kareem alot because some ignorant posters, namely JB, post sonsequential garbage about Kareem being equal or better than Wilt, so as to glorify MJ, but in truth Kareem is a top 5 player of all time.

He has 20 some years of dominance and he was a top 5 player in the league for around 15 of those years, from 69-70 to 84-85. At his peak he was a 34/16 monster who, along with Robertson, carried Milwaukee to their only championship. Hakeem's peak wasn't as good as Kareem's and his peak didn't last as long as Kareem's either. Hakeem really only beats him on defense, everything else Kareem was better.

Comparing Kareem to Wilt is pretty bad:pity:

See I rate defense alot higher than most people...and thier rebounding numbers werent that far apart....Hakeem's job in his prime wasn't to be the playmaker out of the post that Kareem was able to be due to lack oth athletisism on his team....Hakeem got his assists by drawing constant double and triple teams and passing it out to the open 3 point shooters....so I think his playmaking skills are underrated because he did make plays just not in the fashion that Kareem did....Kareem was blessed with 3 players that were better than anyone Hakeem ever played with: Oscar, Magic, and Worthy....3 guys who could easily take over games all by themselves....Hakeem had to take over every game....even when Clyde was with him he was far inferior....he did things on the court from a Center that I have never seen anyone else do....his post moves, his ability to break triple teams, his quick hands, his dreamshake....but then again I grew up watching Hakeem and had the advantage of seeing all of his games in his prime and am slightly biased....Kareem is a top 10 player of all-time no question....but to say he's better than Hakeem I just cannot see it....

GregOden#1
08-18-2007, 06:23 PM
Comparing Kareem to Wilt is pretty bad:pity:

See I rate defense alot higher than most people...and thier rebounding numbers werent that far apart....Hakeem's job in his prime wasn't to be the playmaker out of the post that Kareem was able to be due to lack oth athletisism on his team....Hakeem got his assists by drawing constant double and triple teams and passing it out to the open 3 point shooters....so I think his playmaking skills are underrated because he did make plays just not in the fashion that Kareem did....Kareem was blessed with 3 players that were better than anyone Hakeem ever played with: Oscar, Magic, and Worthy....3 guys who could easily take over games all by themselves....Hakeem had to take over every game....even when Clyde was with him he was far inferior....he did things on the court from a Center that I have never seen anyone else do....his post moves, his ability to break triple teams, his quick hands, his dreamshake....but then again I grew up watching Hakeem and had the advantage of seeing all of his games in his prime and am slightly biased....Kareem is a top 10 player of all-time no question....but to say he's better than Hakeem I just cannot see it....

I see where you're coming from and I looked up both Kareem's and Hakeem's RbR and Hakeem's is actually higher, so it's some indication that Hakeem was the better rebounder. But were looking at a guy whose peak lasted only 5-6 years to a guy who whose peak lasted 15 years. Kareem was an MVP candidate 15 years in a row compared to Hakeem's 5-6 years.

DreamShaker
08-18-2007, 07:07 PM
I see where you're coming from and I looked up both Kareem's and Hakeem's RbR and Hakeem's is actually higher, so it's some indication that Hakeem was the better rebounder. But were looking at a guy whose peak lasted only 5-6 years to a guy who whose peak lasted 15 years. Kareem was an MVP candidate 15 years in a row compared to Hakeem's 5-6 years.

Hakeem for the first 13 years of his career averaged about 24/12 and about 2 or 2 steals, 3 to 4 blocks, and 3 assists....he's also the only player in NBA history to have 2 Quadruple Doubles which is quite the feat...not to mention his defense....I just thought idd throw that out there....

GregOden#1
08-18-2007, 07:46 PM
Hakeem for the first 13 years of his career averaged about 24/12 and about 2 or 2 steals, 3 to 4 blocks, and 3 assists....he's also the only player in NBA history to have 2 Quadruple Doubles which is quite the feat...not to mention his defense....I just thought idd throw that out there....

Those are approx. what Kareem averaged over 21 seasons ;), although he didn't play the same level of defense.

I agree with you that Kareem is overrated, but I dont think he's on the same level as Hakeem, most people place Kareem in the top 5 along with Wilt and MJ, while most put Hakeem with Shaq at the 10-11 spot.

DreamShaker
08-18-2007, 08:09 PM
Those are approx. what Kareem averaged over 21 seasons ;), although he didn't play the same level of defense.

I agree with you that Kareem is overrated, but I dont think he's on the same level as Hakeem, most people place Kareem in the top 5 along with Wilt and MJ, while most put Hakeem with Shaq at the 10-11 spot.

Most people also think Kobe is better than Jerry West;)

GregOden#1
08-18-2007, 09:32 PM
Most people also think Kobe is better than Jerry West;)

Dont know where you get that from, most people put West in the top 10 and Kobe in the 20-30 range, it's really no contest.

Dont let the LA fanbase convince you otherwise.

DreamShaker
08-18-2007, 09:41 PM
Dont know where you get that from, most people put West in the top 10 and Kobe in the 20-30 range, it's really no contest.

Dont let the LA fanbase convince you otherwise.

Well most people I know are ignorant NBA fans (hence onwe of the reasons I am on here) and they would tell you Kobe is top 5 or ten.....I'dd agree Hakeem is in the 7-10 range....

But then again Ko8e says Kobe is ithout question the GOAT

JordansBulls
08-19-2007, 02:02 PM
I talk bad about Kareem alot because some ignorant posters, namely JB, post sonsequential garbage about Kareem being equal or better than Wilt, so as to glorify MJ, but in truth Kareem is a top 5 player of all time.



Let's see:

Kareem has more titles, more MVP's, more Finals MVP's than Wilt.

And Kareem even got voted best Center

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-GreatestCenters

GregOden#1
08-19-2007, 05:53 PM
Let's see:

Kareem has more titles, more MVP's, more Finals MVP's than Wilt.

And Kareem even got voted best Center

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-GreatestCenters

:pity:

Chronz
08-20-2007, 04:24 AM
Kareem got dominated too much for my liking but he was the greatest offensive force in league history. Up there with Wilt, but name me any GREAT center that ever missed the playoffs in his prime, other than Kareem there arent any that come to my mind.

dwade3ai3
08-20-2007, 09:32 AM
Kareem got dominated too much for my liking but he was the greatest offensive force in league history. Up there with Wilt, but name me any GREAT center that ever missed the playoffs in his prime, other than Kareem there arent any that come to my mind.

Wilt missed the playoffs in a weak era in the 60's as well in his prime.

dwade3ai3
08-20-2007, 09:33 AM
I talk bad about Kareem alot because some ignorant posters, namely JB, post sonsequential garbage about Kareem being equal or better than Wilt, so as to glorify MJ, but in truth Kareem is a top 5 player of all time.

He has 20 some years of dominance and he was a top 5 player in the league for around 15 of those years, from 69-70 to 84-85. At his peak he was a 34/16 monster who, along with Robertson, carried Milwaukee to their only championship. Hakeem's peak wasn't as good as Kareem's and his peak didn't last as long as Kareem's either. Hakeem really only beats him on defense, everything else Kareem was better.

Kareem is much better than Wilt.

Chronz
08-20-2007, 05:58 PM
Wilt missed the playoffs in a weak era in the 60's as well in his prime.

When?

GregOden#1
08-20-2007, 07:04 PM
When?

62-63, Wilt's numbers were: 45/24/3

JordansBulls
08-21-2007, 12:15 AM
62-63, Wilt's numbers were: 45/24/3

Considering pace, it would be 30/15/1.5

GregOden#1
08-21-2007, 12:56 AM
Considering pace, it would be 30/15/1.5

Pace adjusts for 33%, 60%, and 50%, ya I doubt it. More like 38/19/2 with 7-8 blocks (because blocks are counted now, and Wilt was going for 12-13 every night).

That's MVP worthy in any league with any record.

Wilson
08-21-2007, 01:38 AM
Dont know where you get that from, most people put West in the top 10 and Kobe in the 20-30 range, it's really no contest.

Dont let the LA fanbase convince you otherwise.

Please don't judge us all lol. I wouldn't put Kobe over West, or a certain other legendary guard.

As for Hakeem and Kareem...it's really tough to say. Like Dream Shaker said before, Hakeem was unreal sometimes with some of the stuff he did, but Kareem's sky hook was unstoppable, and like GregOden#1 said Kareem's prime lasted longer.

I'd look at it like this way: Hakeem was a better defender, Kareem was better on offense, but the gap between their defensive abilities is much bigger than their offensive abilities, so I'd say Hakeem is the better overall player. (I also used this method to compare Howard and Stoudemire in a seperate thread lol).

GregOden#1
08-21-2007, 02:09 AM
Please don't judge us all lol. I wouldn't put Kobe over West, or a certain other legendary guard.

Sorry I shoulda said Kobephiles, my dad used to live in LA (he used to post here) and was a big Laker fan from the 60s-80s so I know not all Laker fans are that ignorant, just the young ones.


As for Wilt and Kareem...it's really tough to say. Like Dream Shaker said before, Hakeem was unreal sometimes with some of the stuff he did, but Kareem's sky hook was unstoppable, and like GregOden#1 said Kareem's prime lasted longer.

You mean Hakeem/Kareem, freudian slip? :p

Also, I decided who I'd vote for bigger gap, Kareem vs Hakeem, I'm steadily looking down on Hakeem as I see new evidence to show he wasn't as good as people say he was. I know rate him near the 13-14 spot behind even maybe Havlicek.

dwade3ai3
08-21-2007, 09:31 AM
Pace adjusts for 33%, 60%, and 50%, ya I doubt it. More like 38/19/2 with 7-8 blocks (because blocks are counted now, and Wilt was going for 12-13 every night).

That's MVP worthy in any league with any record.

:pity:

Wilt's numbers would be more KG like. 22-24 ppg / 12-14 rpg / 3-4 apg / 1-2 bpg / 48% fg

Wilson
08-21-2007, 11:04 AM
You mean Hakeem/Kareem, freudian slip? :p

Also, I decided who I'd vote for bigger gap, Kareem vs Hakeem, I'm steadily looking down on Hakeem as I see new evidence to show he wasn't as good as people say he was. I know rate him near the 13-14 spot behind even maybe Havlicek.

lol yeah I'll edit that.

Nah Hakeem is one of the best Cs ever, he was strong enough to play the position well against the other top Cs, but he didn't just overpower guys like some did, he had a lot of skill under the basket

GregOden#1
08-21-2007, 02:23 PM
lol yeah I'll edit that.

Nah Hakeem is one of the best Cs ever, he was strong enough to play the position well against the other top Cs, but he didn't just overpower guys like some did, he had a lot of skill under the basket

He's still a top 5 center, I think anyway.

Wilson
08-21-2007, 02:43 PM
He's still a top 5 center, I think anyway.

Definately

chadillachembre
08-21-2007, 03:13 PM
how can any one say kareem was over rated?! hes been to more all-star games than any one. holds the all-time scoring record. has a handful of titles and mvp's not to mention his dope appearance on airplane (great movie)

Wilson
08-21-2007, 03:55 PM
how can any one say kareem was over rated?! hes been to more all-star games than any one. holds the all-time scoring record. has a handful of titles and mvp's not to mention his dope appearance on airplane (great movie)

haha that was awesome.

I don't think he's over-rated at all, but just so you know players can be voted into all-star games because they're over-rated. I understand what your saying though, he definately is one of the greatest center ever.

Chronz
08-22-2007, 04:34 AM
62-63, Wilt's numbers were: 45/24/3

Yea but god damn how the **** did they miss the playoffs. Thats insane

dwade3ai3
08-22-2007, 09:35 AM
Yea but god damn how the **** did they miss the playoffs. Thats insane

But that was done in a weak era. Wilt was a ball hog.

T-mac(#1)
08-22-2007, 01:11 PM
But that was done in a weak era. Wilt was a ball hog.
yea that and no one couldve stopped hom

GregOden#1
08-22-2007, 02:36 PM
Yea but god damn how the **** did they miss the playoffs. Thats insane

They lost 11 games in a row. Meschery, Gola, Naulle all missed significant time.

They underachieved too, their expected w/l was 35-45 but they were only 31-49, that's usually coaches fault and the guards fault for not sinking their shots at the end of the game.

It's not that bad, Jordan's teams made the playoffs with a 38-44 record, and even worse a 30-52 record in 84-85 and 85-86.

Different eras mean different things.

I forgot to mention the biggest thing, they had just moved from Philly to SF and most of the players didn't want to play there, so opted for retirement. So the team was in turmoil.

Tom81
09-13-2008, 01:44 PM
For me K.Malone vs C.Barkley ,I don't have to explain why?

Beno7500
09-15-2008, 01:15 AM
Kareem vs Hakeem

Lakersfan2483
09-15-2008, 01:30 AM
I talk bad about Kareem alot because some ignorant posters, namely JB, post sonsequential garbage about Kareem being equal or better than Wilt, so as to glorify MJ, but in truth Kareem is a top 5 player of all time.

He has 20 some years of dominance and he was a top 5 player in the league for around 15 of those years, from 69-70 to 84-85. At his peak he was a 34/16 monster who, along with Robertson, carried Milwaukee to their only championship. Hakeem's peak wasn't as good as Kareem's and his peak didn't last as long as Kareem's either. Hakeem really only beats him on defense, everything else Kareem was better.

Exactly. Kareem was a monster in his prime. The man won 6 titles, 6 mvps, he won at every level.

The bigger gap was between Kareem and Hakeem.

Lakersfan2483
09-15-2008, 01:37 AM
It's ridiculous for people to say Kareem is overrated. He dominated in college and he dominated in the NBA. He's the no. 1 scorer of all time. He won 6 finals Mvps, 6 titles, he ranked in top 5 in rebs, scoring, all time. Kareem is not overrated.

DreamShaker
09-20-2008, 11:53 AM
Wow I can't believe how ignorant I was just a year ago....I actually said Hakeem was MILES ahead of Kareem:pity: