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View Full Version : Which Defensive Role Player plays the BEST 1 on 1 Defense ?



RocketPowered
08-06-2007, 12:51 PM
Out of the whole league which player plays the best one on one lockdown d on any superstar....?

T-mac(#1)
08-06-2007, 12:52 PM
probably bowen, battier, and artest. No particular order its just that they are equal.

Als
08-06-2007, 02:38 PM
Artest is the best one on one defender, bowen and batteir are more team defenders.

AK is a team defender also because of the drives that he blocks, thats rotation meaning team defense.

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 02:41 PM
Artest is the best one on one defender, bowen and batteir are more team defenders.

AK is a team defender also because of the drives that he blocks, thats rotation meaning team defense.

Bowen is a better 1 on 1 defender then team defender..you are right about AK though

JAZZNC
08-06-2007, 02:47 PM
Bowen by a landslide. He's got to be one of the better 1-on-1 defenders of this generation no matter how dirty he is or how much I hate him. It was nice to see him get torched by D-Williams though. About the only bright spot for the Jazz in that series.

LAKERMANIA
08-06-2007, 02:53 PM
id say bowen as well

artest is out of shape, if you run around a lot he wont be able to guard as well

Catfish1314
08-06-2007, 03:01 PM
id say bowen as well

artest is out of shape, if you run around a lot he wont be able to guard as well

Artest is out of shape? The guy is built like a dinosaur.

DreamShaker
08-06-2007, 03:37 PM
Artest is out of shape? The guy is built like a dinosaur.

:eyebrow:

What???????????

GregOden#1
08-06-2007, 03:40 PM
Mike James is easily the best one on one defender. Nobody has ever scored on Mike James.

T-mac(#1)
08-06-2007, 03:41 PM
Mike James is easily the best one on one defender. Nobody has ever scored on Mike James.

same with the ol' stevie francis

Lakergirl24
08-06-2007, 03:43 PM
As good as bowen is, I thik when artest is healthy, that guy plays the most suffocating defense

Catfish1314
08-06-2007, 03:54 PM
:eyebrow:

What???????????

I mean he is all muscle. He might look out of shape but he's really not. The only guy on this list who even holds a candle to Artest is Bowen. But I hate Bowen's style. He tries to hurt people too much too often. Artest just pulls people's shorts down.

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 04:03 PM
I mean he is all muscle. He might look out of shape but he's really not. The only guy on this list who even holds a candle to Artest is Bowen. But I hate Bowen's style. He tries to hurt people too much too often. Artest just pulls people's shorts down.

Even if you hate his style, does that take anything away about his actual defense?

Catfish1314
08-06-2007, 04:06 PM
Even if you hate his style, does that take anything away about his actual defense?

Not until he gets suspended for it or something. To me, it's cheating. And it's one thing if you don't play fair but when you go out of your way to hurt someone like he does, it's pretty damn low in my opinion. I hate to give him credit for anything because of that.

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 04:10 PM
Not until he gets suspended for it or something. To me, it's cheating. And it's one thing if you don't play fair but when you go out of your way to hurt someone like he does, it's pretty damn low in my opinion. I hate to give him credit for anything because of that.

Yet you like to give credit to Artest who is freaking crazy?? Or is it because he isnt "dirty"

Catfish1314
08-06-2007, 04:19 PM
Yet you like to give credit to Artest who is freaking crazy?? Or is it because he isnt "dirty"

Artest isn't insane. He has just has some problems. OK he might be insane. But he doesn't ever try to hurt anyone when he's defending them. You usually have to take a shot at him first (Manu Ginobili two years ago). Bowen does it anyway. He's doing it to help his team, but he could potentially damage or end someone's career the way he plays.

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 04:27 PM
Artest isn't insane. He has just has some problems. OK he might be insane. But he doesn't ever try to hurt anyone when he's defending them. You usually have to take a shot at him first (Manu Ginobili two years ago). Bowen does it anyway. He's doing it to help his team, but he could potentially damage or end someone's career the way he plays.

I dont believe Manu elbowed him on purpose..

Now a days NBA players dont like contact..funny how the best NBA players (Kobe, Wade, T-mac, LeBron etc..) never really complain about him and say he plays good tough D.

Catfish1314
08-06-2007, 04:42 PM
I dont believe Manu elbowed him on purpose..

Now a days NBA players dont like contact..funny how the best NBA players (Kobe, Wade, T-mac, LeBron etc..) never really complain about him and say he plays good tough D.

You're right, I've never heard them say that. There's a difference between contact and intentionally trying to hurt people. Ray Allen, Steve Francis, Vince Carter, Amare Stoudemire, Jamal Crawford, and just about every coach in the NBA can't stand the guy and all think he's a dirty player. He is a dirty player. I don't think there's any doubt about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pHwkqvViBM&mode=related&search=

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 04:48 PM
You're right, I've never heard them say that. There's a difference between contact and intentionally trying to hurt people. Ray Allen, Steve Francis, Vince Carter, Amare Stoudemire, Jamal Crawford, and just about every coach in the NBA can't stand the guy and all think he's a dirty player. He is a dirty player. I don't think there's any doubt about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pHwkqvViBM&mode=related&search=

If he is so dirty why does he keep getting on all defensive 1st teams?

And those 5 players you mentioned..think about it..if he was truly a dirty player dont you think it would have been more then those 5 players that said something..I mean he's played in tons of games and only a few incidents have happened. I cant imagine how the players would be if Bill Lambier played in the NBA today

Catfish1314
08-06-2007, 04:55 PM
If he is so dirty why does he keep getting on all defensive 1st teams?

And those 5 players you mentioned..think about it..if he was truly a dirty player dont you think it would have been more then those 5 players that said something..I mean he's played in tons of games and only a few incidents have happened. I cant imagine how the players would be if Bill Lambier played in the NBA today

Let me ask you something. Ron Artest was not on either the 1st or 2nd nba defensive team. Kobe Bryant was on the 1st team. Raja Bell was on the 1st team. Tayshaun Prince was on the 2nd team. Artest deserved a 1st team selection WAY WAY WAY more than Kobe or Bell. And if not he should have definitely been on the 2nd team over Prince. Those selections are garbage in my opinion. Do you not think he should have?

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 04:57 PM
Let me ask you something. Ron Artest was not on either the 1st or 2nd nba defensive team. Kobe Bryant was on the 1st team. Raja Bell was on the 1st team. Tayshaun Prince was on the 2nd team. Artest deserved a 1st team selection WAY WAY WAY more than Kobe or Bell. And if not he should have definitely been on the 2nd team over Prince. Those selections are garbage in my opinion. Do you not think he should have?

I think he should have been over Prince, but not on the first team. Plus he is a forward so it wouldnt matter if he is better then Bell or Kobe.

sunsalltheway03
08-06-2007, 04:58 PM
Artest

SATX_2K7
08-06-2007, 05:00 PM
How is Artest not dirty when his flagrant foul on Ben Wallace ignited that riot at Detroit? Bowen is the best defensive player in the NBA today!

Catfish1314
08-06-2007, 05:02 PM
I think he should have been over Prince, but not on the first team. Plus he is a forward so it wouldnt matter if he is better then Bell or Kobe.

Artest is a better defender than Bowen end of story. That's just my opinion. Even if Bowen was not the ridiculously dirty player he is, I would still take Artest over him. All of the awards are trash IMO. Monta Ellis won the MIP over Kevin Martin. You know that's a load of bull.

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 05:04 PM
Artest is a better defender than Bowen end of story. That's just my opinion. Even if Bowen was not the ridiculously dirty player he is, I would still take Artest over him. All of the awards are trash IMO. Monta Ellis won the MIP over Kevin Martin. You know that's a load of bull.

What exactly does Artest do that much better then Bowen? Those awards are voted by media and what not..when it comes to the NBA teams (defense, rookie, player etc..), coaches and GM's vote on that dont they?

Catfish1314
08-06-2007, 05:04 PM
How is Artest not dirty when his flagrant foul on Ben Wallace ignited that riot at Detroit? Bowen is the best defensive player in the NBA today!

Bowen is ten times as dirty as Artest. Artest committed a flagrant foul? Bowen goes out of his way to injure players so his team can win. He cheats. He's dirty. Plain and simple. I can't believe Artest was suspended for bumping Manu's head and Bowen hasn't for some of the garbage he's pulled.

Catfish1314
08-06-2007, 05:06 PM
What exactly does Artest do that much better then Bowen? Those awards are voted by media and what not..when it comes to the NBA teams (defense, rookie, player etc..), coaches and GM's vote on that dont they?

I think that's how it works. Artest not only does everything Bowen does (suffocating, aggravating, etc.) but he does it fairly, first of all. And he has quicker hands and goes out of his way to take the ball from the opposing player, while locking them down at the same time. Look at the two player's steal averages.

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 05:10 PM
I think that's how it works. Artest not only does everything Bowen does (suffocating, aggravating, etc.) but he does it fairly, first of all. And he has quicker hands and goes out of his way to take the ball from the opposing player, while locking them down at the same time. Look at the two player's steal averages.

So just because he gets more steals he's better? Artest can guard the bigger guys like LeBron/Pierce better because hes stronger, but when it comes to the quicker guards Bowen is better IMO. Not to mention bowen is going to be 37.

Catfish1314
08-06-2007, 05:15 PM
So just because he gets more steals he's better? Artest can guard the bigger guys like LeBron/Pierce better because hes stronger, but when it comes to the quicker guards Bowen is better IMO. Not to mention bowen is going to be 37.

Did I say that? No. He gets more steals and those steals are beneficial to the team. He causes more turnovers than Bowen. I just think he's a better overall defender.

SATX_2K7
08-06-2007, 05:17 PM
When Artest is 37 and is able to play on Bowen's current level, then come back to me. k , thanks!

Catfish1314
08-06-2007, 05:23 PM
When Artest is 37 and is able to play on Bowen's current level, then come back to me. k , thanks!

Oh you mean when he is able to throw his foot under another player's ankle and try to injure them (repeatedly)? Kick a player in the back for no reason? Knee another player in the groin right in front of the opposing coach's face and pretend it was an accident? Bruce Bowen is the dirtiest player in the NBA.

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 05:23 PM
Did I say that? No. He gets more steals and those steals are beneficial to the team. He causes more turnovers than Bowen. I just think he's a better overall defender.

I respect your opinion..it just seems that think Bowen sucks or something

zachattach
08-06-2007, 05:25 PM
Those guys are perimiter defenders. Who's the best one on one low post defenders??? Yao, Dwight, Amare, Brand, Duncan or Kwame??? Yes i said kwame.

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 05:27 PM
Kwame is a good defender, but for down low I would take Brand of Duncan

Catfish1314
08-06-2007, 05:29 PM
Kwame by a landslide! Not.

Duncan.

Musashi
08-06-2007, 07:41 PM
Artest or Bowen. But I voted for Bowen, because Artest is a star to me, definitely not a role player. He can do a lot of things offensively, not just the corner shot like Bowen.

Catfish1314
08-06-2007, 07:45 PM
I respect your opinion..it just seems that think Bowen sucks or something

Bowen does not suck. His offense is pretty weak, but his defense is top notch, one of the best in the game. It would just be nice if he could play it fairly. I can't stand him just for the simple fact he takes all those cheap shots and you know he's doing it on purpose.

Chronz
08-06-2007, 10:55 PM
Quinton Ross

ink
08-06-2007, 10:57 PM
Even if you hate his style, does that take anything away about his actual defense?

Actually yes. IMO. :cool:

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 11:05 PM
Actually yes. IMO. :cool:

Curious, but would mind explaining why you think so?

ink
08-06-2007, 11:06 PM
Curious, but would mind explaining why you think so?

If it's not legal, it's not basketball.

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 11:09 PM
If it's not legal, it's not basketball.

Shoulda known

ink
08-06-2007, 11:09 PM
Shoulda known

Curious, but could you explain why you think that? :)

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 11:11 PM
Curious, but could you explain why you think that? :)

Well you may find this hard to believe buuuut...not a lot of people like Bowen and find him dirty..and to top it off your a Suns fan..most Suns fans I see, feel the same way you do.

Wade>You
08-06-2007, 11:13 PM
Bowen is the closest to a complete fundamental defender. Regardless of whether he's dirty or not, he doesn't impede his player's progress as much as the other supposed great defenders in the league.

He's just got quick legs, knows how to read his opponent, position himself to stop the drives with enough room to contest a jumper, and tries to make their lives miserable.

ink
08-06-2007, 11:16 PM
Well you may find this hard to believe buuuut...not a lot of people like Bowen and find him dirty..and to top it off your a Suns fan..most Suns fans I see, feel the same way you do.

Uh yeah ... true enough. But I respect the Spurs a lot. I'd just think a lot more of them without Bowen. That 3rd game will be hard to live down for the NBA. But to the good, the Spurs were full value for the championship. Duncan, Parker and Ginobili and a great supporting cast. Just don't mention Bowen. ;)

I'd take Battier and Bell.

Catfish1314
08-06-2007, 11:18 PM
Bowen is the closest to a complete fundamental defender. Regardless of whether he's dirty or not, he doesn't impede his player's progress as much as the other supposed great defenders in the league.

He's just got quick legs, knows how to read his opponent, position himself to stop the drives with enough room to contest a jumper, and tries to make their lives miserable.

Yeah he does all of that and tries to injure people.

DreamShaker
08-06-2007, 11:22 PM
Uh yeah ... true enough. But I respect the Spurs a lot. I'd just think a lot more of them without Bowen. That 3rd game will be hard to live down for the NBA. But to the good, the Spurs were full value for the championship. Duncan, Parker and Ginobili and a great supporting cast. Just don't mention Bowen. ;)

I'd take Battier and Bell.

I love that little womanish argument with Josh there Inky boy.....both of yall are two of my favorites so I love the fact that you are Suns and Spurs fans....but on this one i'm gonna have to agree with both of you....Bowen is dirty but effective....but honestly.....if you had to bet your life on somebody slowing down the other teams best player....would you seriously take Battier over Bowen??????? Battier is one of my favorite players on my favorite team but Bowen is more effective....even if he is sorta dirty....but I totally understand where Ink is coming from as well....

Wade>You
08-06-2007, 11:23 PM
delete this

ink
08-06-2007, 11:25 PM
I love that little womanish argument with Josh there Inky boy.....both of yall are two of my favorites so I love the fact that you are Suns and Spurs fans....but on this one i'm gonna have to agree with both of you....Bowen is dirty but effective....but honestly.....if you had to bet your life on somebody slowing down the other teams best player....would you seriously take Battier over Bowen??????? Battier is one of my favorite players on my favorite team but Bowen is more effective....even if he is sorta dirty....but I totally understand where Ink is coming from as well....

Womanish?!! Hahahaha. Just respectful man. Don't want to start a fire where there's no need. Besides Suns and Spurs fans have already talked this one to death. Besides josh is a good poster.

But nah. Give me an intense defender, but not a dirty one. I don't want my team to win that way. And the refs or the NBA better not either. There ya go Dreamshaker, gettin me fired up about that again. ;)

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 11:26 PM
I love that little womanish argument with Josh there Inky boy.....both of yall are two of my favorites so I love the fact that you are Suns and Spurs fans....but on this one i'm gonna have to agree with both of you....Bowen is dirty but effective....but honestly.....if you had to bet your life on somebody slowing down the other teams best player....would you seriously take Battier over Bowen??????? Battier is one of my favorite players on my favorite team but Bowen is more effective....even if he is sorta dirty....but I totally understand where Ink is coming from as well....

I respect his opinion..Of course he is going to say Bell being a Suns fan, and of course Im going to say Bowen because Im a Spurs fan..Im not going to bash someone just because they disagree with me.

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 11:28 PM
Womanish?!! Hahahaha. Just respectful man. Don't want to start a fire where there's no need. Besides Suns and Spurs fans have already talked this one to death. Besides josh is a good poster.

But nah. Give me an intense defender, but not a dirty one. I don't want my team to win that way. And the refs or the NBA better not either. There ya go Dreamshaker, gettin me fired up about that again. ;)

So with that statement..you wouldn't take Artest??

ink
08-06-2007, 11:29 PM
So with that statement..you wouldn't take Artest??

Artest is a whole other discussion. lol.

DreamShaker
08-06-2007, 11:29 PM
Womanish?!! Hahahaha. Just respectful man. Don't want to start a fire where there's no need. Besides Suns and Spurs fans have already talked this one to death. Besides josh is a good poster.

But nah. Give me an intense defender, but not a dirty one. I don't want my team to win that way. And the refs or the NBA better not either. There ya go Dreamshaker, gettin me fired up about that again. ;)

Haha you know you love David Stern and his refs :laugh2:

DreamShaker
08-06-2007, 11:30 PM
I respect his opinion..Of course he is going to say Bell being a Suns fan, and of course Im going to say Bowen because Im a Spurs fan..Im not going to bash someone just because they disagree with me.

Yall are just homers....i'm unbiased though because I chose Bowen and not Battier....:clap:

ink
08-06-2007, 11:30 PM
Haha you know you love David Stern and his refs :laugh2:

You've got me all figured out.

ink
08-06-2007, 11:32 PM
Yall are just homers....i'm unbiased though because I chose Bowen and not Battier....:clap:

There had to be SOME reason Battier was picked for the American national team.

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 11:33 PM
Yall are just homers....i'm unbiased though because I chose Bowen and not Battier....:clap:

Maybe, but I truly believe Bowen is Battier though..and thats saying something seeing as Battier is a Duke alumni and thats my team!

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 11:33 PM
There had to be SOME reason Battier was picked for the American national team.

Same reason Bowen was the leading vote getter for the all defensive team?

DreamShaker
08-06-2007, 11:34 PM
You've got me all figured out.

No doubts....I get mad too though because Yao gets clobbered constantly....but back on topic I think Corey Brewer might be on that caliber of these guys in a few years.....I would predict in 3 to 4 years he will be the best 1 on 1 defender in the NBA....

DreamShaker
08-06-2007, 11:36 PM
There had to be SOME reason Battier was picked for the American national team.

Oh he is really a great defender....what I like about Battier is he hustles more than any of those other guys.....Battier is the hardest working guy on the Rockets....and i'dd take him over those other guys on my team...even if he's not as great of a one on one defender....he's the ultamate glue guy....

Joshtd1
08-06-2007, 11:38 PM
Oh he is really a great defender....what I like about Battier is he hustles more than any of those other guys.....Battier is the hardest working guy on the Rockets....and i'dd take him over those other guys on my team...even if he's not as great of a one on one defender....he's the ultamate glue guy....

Thats true, I would love to have Battier on the Spurs..man he pisses me off to no end when he plays us because he always seems to draw like 5 charges a game lol

ink
08-06-2007, 11:39 PM
Same reason Bowen was the leading vote getter for the all defensive team?

I know he can play. No doubt. I just hate the attempts to injure. It disqualifies him for me. And he's got to play within the rules. I've had enough of the dirty/fixed NBA. The league needs to clean up and play good ball. Duncan needs to give the dude a good talkin too. lol. :D

ink
08-06-2007, 11:42 PM
Oh he is really a great defender....what I like about Battier is he hustles more than any of those other guys.....Battier is the hardest working guy on the Rockets....and i'dd take him over those other guys on my team...even if he's not as great of a one on one defender....he's the ultamate glue guy....

Agreed.

RocketPowered
08-06-2007, 11:44 PM
i like bruce, but that boy plays dirty defense
i like battier but that boy just is too Wholesome to intimidate the opponent
I like ak47 but that boy cried on not getting minutes plus he just got dunked on by bd....
I like ron artest but that boy beats up everybody his opponent, the fans, even his wife......

Chronz
08-06-2007, 11:44 PM
Oh he is really a great defender....what I like about Battier is he hustles more than any of those other guys.....Battier is the hardest working guy on the Rockets....and i'dd take him over those other guys on my team...even if he's not as great of a one on one defender....he's the ultamate glue guy....
One on One defense is no where near as important as team defense so you have every reason to think Battier is a better defender than Bowen. He cant be posted up like Bowen can, and while hes not as quick laterally as Bowen he has such great anticipation that he rarely has to recover from a misdirection gamble.

Battier is also better at protecting the rim and taking charges


If I wanted to build a defense around either one of them it would be Battier

But the topic is 1 on 1 defender and Bowen has the edge in sticking in front of his man, though Devin Harris, Quinton Ross, Buckner, Hassel and Udoka should be on here as well.

DreamShaker
08-07-2007, 12:09 AM
One on One defense is no where near as important as team defense so you have every reason to think Battier is a better defender than Bowen. He cant be posted up like Bowen can, and while hes not as quick laterally as Bowen he has such great anticipation that he rarely has to recover from a misdirection gamble.

Battier is also better at protecting the rim and taking charges


If I wanted to build a defense around either one of them it would be Battier

But the topic is 1 on 1 defender and Bowen has the edge in sticking in front of his man, though Devin Harris, Quinton Ross, Buckner, Hassel and Udoka should be on here as well.

I've always like Q Ross.....I think he is just as good as Bell....

DreamShaker
08-07-2007, 12:10 AM
Thats true, I would love to have Battier on the Spurs..man he pisses me off to no end when he plays us because he always seems to draw like 5 charges a game lol

Yeah I hated him when he was on the Grizz....you know who annoys me to no end with his defense and hustle....Najera....I would kill to have him on the Rockets....

Joshtd1
08-07-2007, 12:14 AM
Yeah I hated him when he was on the Grizz....you know who annoys me to no end with his defense and hustle....Najera....I would kill to have him on the Rockets....

I dont really care for Najera..he hustles alot, but I dont think he is that great

Joshtd1
08-07-2007, 12:15 AM
I've always like Q Ross.....I think he is just as good as Bell....

I never really get to see him play that much..the times he did play he would get burned by Manu though..I hated seeing him score though..I didnt know he was capable

DreamShaker
08-07-2007, 12:43 AM
I never really get to see him play that much..the times he did play he would get burned by Manu though..I hated seeing him score though..I didnt know he was capable

Who hasn't gotten burned by Manu????????? And Najera is a Kurt Rambis/Mark Madsen type player who just goes in there to annoy the other team....but he is a great role player off the bench....

Joshtd1
08-07-2007, 12:49 AM
Who hasn't gotten burned by Manu????????? And Najera is a Kurt Rambis/Mark Madsen type player who just goes in there to annoy the other team....but he is a great role player off the bench....

Ugh..mark madsen..:puke:

I must say I enjoyed it very much when Matt Bonner crossed him and almost made him fall, and also in the same game get layed out by a Melvin Ely screen.

DreamShaker
08-07-2007, 12:58 AM
Ugh..mark madsen..:puke:

I must say I enjoyed it very much when Matt Bonner crossed him and almost made him fall, and also in the same game get layed out by a Melvin Ely screen.

How could Matt Bonner crossing Madsen not be the greatest thing of all time????? That is the most unlikely whitest thing can could possibly happen in an NBA game....unless like Steve Novac dunked on Steve Blake or something....and he really got layed out by Melvin Ely????????

Joshtd1
08-07-2007, 01:06 AM
How could Matt Bonner crossing Madsen not be the greatest thing of all time????? That is the most unlikely whitest thing can could possibly happen in an NBA game....unless like Steve Novac dunked on Steve Blake or something....and he really got layed out by Melvin Ely????????

Enjoy

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2SE-1FwUSRE

I was watching the game when it happened..I started laughing my *** off.

DreamShaker
08-07-2007, 01:25 AM
Enjoy

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2SE-1FwUSRE

I was watching the game when it happened..I started laughing my *** off.

That was wonderful:clap:

Joshtd1
08-07-2007, 01:27 AM
That was wonderful:clap:

If only I could find the one where he gets layed out..

ink
08-07-2007, 01:50 AM
If only I could find the one where he gets layed out..

Hey thanks for the Matt Bonner clip!! ;)

Chronz
08-07-2007, 05:34 PM
I've always like Q Ross.....I think he is just as good as Bell....

Better than Raja, 2 seasons ago he was locking down superstars left and right, he locked up VC, Mike James, and he made Arenas his *****

kbj28
08-07-2007, 06:58 PM
Battier by far. Only guy on that list w/o personal issues or tarnished image amongst other players.

Catfish1314
08-07-2007, 11:06 PM
Battier by far. Only guy on that list w/o personal issues or tarnished image amongst other players.

That's not the question though is it? Which player plays the best 1 on 1 defense? Artest should not even be in this category in the first place because unlike these other guys, he can score. He's not a role player. But Artest is the best defender of any of these IMO.

DreamShaker
08-07-2007, 11:37 PM
Better than Raja, 2 seasons ago he was locking down superstars left and right, he locked up VC, Mike James, and he made Arenas his *****

Yeah....I just hope he can get off the friggin Clippers....they aqre just cyrsed....

njballer0828
08-08-2007, 12:42 AM
Bruce Bowen...cuz he will break a guys leg if he gets by him...jk I seriously have to go with Artest. I think he is the best CLEAN on ball defender.

U1timateCubsFan
08-08-2007, 01:55 AM
Bowen is the best imo. He is one of the best defenders of this generation and I don't see how anyone can argue against that after watching him work his magic in the Finals. If he allows a lot of points, he will make the guy work for each and every one of those points and he is certainly make their FG% suffer big time.

Wade>You
08-08-2007, 01:56 AM
Bruce Bowen...cuz he will break a guys leg if he gets by him...jk I seriously have to go with Artest. I think he is the best CLEAN on ball defender.You thought wrong my friend. The guy lives off impeding progress. A lot of players would light him up if he wasn't a reputational defender.

KO8E
08-08-2007, 01:57 AM
Bowen is the best imo. He is one of the best defenders of this generation and I don't see how anyone can argue against that after watching him work his magic in the Finals.

Thats called collective team defense (e.i double teams, traps, zone, funneling)

U1timateCubsFan
08-08-2007, 02:03 AM
Thats called collective team defense (e.i double teams, traps, zone, funneling)

Yea that was a great effort by the whole team. Lots of doubles and triples when Bruce got into trouble. The rest of the guys did a great job of helping him out when LeBron actually did beat him. However, you have to give him a lot of credit because while most in the league are overmatched by LeBron's size and quickness, he was able to stay in front of him for the most part. I don't think I've ever seen LeBron have such a hard time driving the lane and that is in large part because Bruce plays a very strong and physical game.

njballer0828
08-08-2007, 02:06 AM
You thought wrong my friend. The guy lives off impeding progress. A lot of players would light him up if he wasn't a reputational defender.

reputational defender?!?! How can you attribute Artest's defensive success to his reputation lol?? You are saying people would score on him if we wasnt known for his defensive repuation. That makes no sense.

Wade>You
08-08-2007, 02:18 AM
reputational defender?!?! How can you attribute Artest's defensive success to his reputation lol?? You are saying people would score on him if we wasnt known for his defensive repuation. That makes no sense.I've watched enough of Ron Artest last year and over the past few years to make an educated decision. I don't judge a player by how good he was 4 years ago.

The guy does a lot of things not allowed by the NBA rule books to slow down the player he is guarding. Some of them are just slick that the refs don't catch, and the other times, the refs just give it to him cuz of his reputation.

Disagree? Just stating the facts is all.

Defensively: Bowen > Artest.

PackCrewBuckBad
08-08-2007, 09:50 AM
write in: Ruben Patterson

Joshtd1
08-08-2007, 11:41 AM
Bowen is the best imo. He is one of the best defenders of this generation and I don't see how anyone can argue against that after watching him work his magic in the Finals. If he allows a lot of points, he will make the guy work for each and every one of those points and he is certainly make their FG% suffer big time.

A lot of guys wont give Bowen the credit because of the accusations and everybody thinking he's dirty.

Catfish1314
08-08-2007, 12:47 PM
You thought wrong my friend. The guy lives off impeding progress. A lot of players would light him up if he wasn't a reputational defender.

:laugh: Reputational defender? What the hell?

RocketPowered
08-09-2007, 07:24 AM
artest is strong and sorta dirty smart (pierce shorts incident)
bowen is dirty (francis jumper, crawfod jumper, amare dunk, etc)
battier is hard workin ( proble leads the league in charges, and maybe dived balls )
raja hits people when they drop hella mad buckets on him (kobe)
ak47 is tall and lanky good for blocked shots (led the league at blocks one time and great help defender) but people wont be scared of him as much as Baron dropped a bomb on his dulph lundren face......

T-mac(#1)
08-09-2007, 12:05 PM
artest is strong and sorta dirty smart (pierce shorts incident)
bowen is dirty (francis jumper, crawfod jumper, amare dunk, etc)
battier is hard workin ( proble leads the league in charges, and maybe dived balls )
raja hits people when they drop hella mad buckets on him (kobe)
ak47 is tall and lanky good for blocked shots (led the league at blocks one time and great help defender) but people wont be scared of him as much as Baron dropped a bomb on his dulph lundren face......

and dont forgot about the time he cried!!haha:D

rhino17
08-09-2007, 12:08 PM
I wouldnt consider artest a "role player", but I would consider him the best defender on that list, followed by battier. AK has seemed to slip up lately. Bell and Bowen are just dirty players, not good defenders.

nigerianking
08-09-2007, 12:29 PM
artest is not a role player

RocketPowered
08-09-2007, 03:54 PM
ak47 did cry over fkn minutes......

Drewlius
08-09-2007, 07:39 PM
Bowen by leaps & bounds. Artest could make for discussion if he could get his f'n head on his shoulders.

JAZZNC
08-09-2007, 07:44 PM
I wouldnt consider artest a "role player", but I would consider him the best defender on that list, followed by battier. AK has seemed to slip up lately. Bell and Bowen are just dirty players, not good defenders.

You're out of your mind if you think that Bowen isn't a good defender. Yes he's very dirty but that shouldn't take away from the fact that he's a great, great defender. If everyone gets to tired of him being dirty somebody should just punch him right in the face the next time he gives them a cheap shot. Battier is nowhere close to any of the other players on that list. I don't count jumping in front of people on their way to the rim and flopping as good D. That's all he can do and all he's been able to do since he was at Duke, take a charge. Bell is a good defender as well.

Drewlius
08-09-2007, 07:47 PM
I wouldnt consider artest a "role player", but I would consider him the best defender on that list, followed by battier. AK has seemed to slip up lately. Bell and Bowen are just dirty players, not good defenders.

Every person who whines & calls Bowen a dirty player has simply been touched by his immaculate defense. Nothing more, nothing less.

Musashi
08-09-2007, 08:01 PM
By the way, where's Trenton Hassell on the list? He's not getting much hype, but he's a lockdown defender. I like Stevenson, Ross, Snow and Lindsey Hunter too.

Catfish1314
08-09-2007, 08:37 PM
Bowen by leaps & bounds. Artest could make for discussion if he could get his f'n head on his shoulders.

If he could get his head on his shoulders? Bowen wouldn't be half the defender he is if he didn't cheat so much. Artest may not behave himself off the court, but when he plays it's fair. These days it is anyway. The same can't be said for Bowen, who goes out of his way to end other player's careers.

JAZZNC
08-09-2007, 08:41 PM
If he could get his head on his shoulders? Bowen wouldn't be half the defender he is if he didn't cheat so much. Artest may not behave himself off the court, but when he plays it's fair. These days it is anyway. The same can't be said for Bowen, who goes out of his way to end other player's careers.

Name me one player who's career he's ended? Like I said, I think he's dirty and needs a Karl Malone elbow to the teeth, but he's never ended anyones career. He gets into peoples heads and if he gets the refs on his side, he can really upset a guy (see Nash in this years playoffs). He's a very good defender no matter how dirty he is.

vegaslakers
08-09-2007, 08:54 PM
Bowen is still the best

vegaslakers
08-09-2007, 08:55 PM
Raja is 2nd best

vegaslakers
08-09-2007, 08:56 PM
AK47 switchs better and could block shot, too!

Catfish1314
08-09-2007, 08:56 PM
Name me one player who's career he's ended? Like I said, I think he's dirty and needs a Karl Malone elbow to the teeth, but he's never ended anyones career. He gets into peoples heads and if he gets the refs on his side, he can really upset a guy (see Nash in this years playoffs). He's a very good defender no matter how dirty he is.

No one....YET. He tries to hurt people and get them injured. They may not necessarily be career ending injuries, but they could be career damaging injuries.

Catfish1314
08-09-2007, 08:58 PM
Raja is 2nd best

Bell is better than Artest? Look Artest is the best defender of all these guys. Bowen, if you factor out his dirty play, is 2nd. Bell is third.

Joshtd1
08-09-2007, 09:23 PM
What makes Artest so much better then Bowen? Because he averages more blocks and steals? Or because Bowen is dirty and Artest isnt?

CELTICS4LYFE
08-09-2007, 09:28 PM
ill say artest is the best cuz i seen him play more than any of the others but iknow bowen will b the popular choice cuz is on the spursand gets alot of national coverage

Catfish1314
08-09-2007, 09:30 PM
What makes Artest so much better then Bowen? Because he averages more blocks and steals? Or because Bowen is dirty and Artest isnt?

Artest is better. Period. He locks people down as often as Bowen, if not more. Bowen only tries to keep his opponent from scoring. Artest does the same and goes out of his way to get the ball for his team. Artest had a bad back most of the year and still led the league in steals for all of the season until the very end. For example. Let's pretend Bowen is not a dirty defender for a second. He would still be the second best defender in the league.

rhino17
08-09-2007, 09:36 PM
You're out of your mind if you think that Bowen isn't a good defender. Yes he's very dirty but that shouldn't take away from the fact that he's a great, great defender. If everyone gets to tired of him being dirty somebody should just punch him right in the face the next time he gives them a cheap shot. Battier is nowhere close to any of the other players on that list. I don't count jumping in front of people on their way to the rim and flopping as good D. That's all he can do and all he's been able to do since he was at Duke, take a charge. Bell is a good defender as well.

I would take battier over Bowen or Bell any day. Those 2 are just dirty players, not good defenders. They are cowards. What kind of a ***** hits someone when their back is turned? Battier is a clean player, thats why I think he is better. He isnt a wimp who purposely tries to injure other players.

Catfish1314
08-09-2007, 09:44 PM
I would take battier over Bowen or Bell any day. Those 2 are just dirty players, not good defenders. They are cowards. What kind of a ***** hits someone when their back is turned? Battier is a clean player, thats why I think he is better. He isnt a wimp who purposely tries to injure other players.

Exactly. Bowen is so old he can't play fair anymore. So he cheats to get by as a "great defender". Doug Christie never did that and he was just as old.

Joshtd1
08-09-2007, 11:07 PM
Artest is better. Period. He locks people down as often as Bowen, if not more. Bowen only tries to keep his opponent from scoring. Artest does the same and goes out of his way to get the ball for his team. Artest had a bad back most of the year and still led the league in steals for all of the season until the very end. For example. Let's pretend Bowen is not a dirty defender for a second. He would still be the second best defender in the league.

So your saying Bowen only tries to keep is opponent from scoring, and not get the ball from the other team?? Ok..Im not trying to change anyone's mind, and I respect your opinion..just wanted to see why you thought that.

Joshtd1
08-09-2007, 11:08 PM
Exactly. Bowen is so old he can't play fair anymore. So he cheats to get by as a "great defender". Doug Christie never did that and he was just as old.

That must be it..I guess thats the reason coaches and GM's have voted him to be on the all defensive first team for the last few years.

KO8E
08-09-2007, 11:09 PM
Ron Artest is the best overall perimeter defender in the game today. Anyone that disagrees is wrong.

Catfish1314
08-09-2007, 11:09 PM
So your saying Bowen only tries to keep is opponent from scoring, and not get the ball from the other team?? Ok..Im not trying to change anyone's mind, and I respect your opinion..just wanted to see why you thought that.

Apparently. Artest has quicker, stronger hands. He's stronger and just as quick. He can keep with his man as good or better. He's just a better defender. Period.

Joshtd1
08-09-2007, 11:12 PM
Apparently. Artest has quicker, stronger hands. He's stronger and just as quick. He can keep with his man as good or better. He's just a better defender. Period.

He's stronger, but not just as quick.

Catfish1314
08-09-2007, 11:17 PM
That must be it..I guess thats the reason coaches and GM's have voted him to be on the all defensive first team for the last few years.

All of that voting is garbage. Kobe Bryant was voted on over Artest. Raja Bell and Tayshaun Prince were voted on over Artest. Kevin Martin lost the MIP award to Monta Ellis. All of that voting is trash. And plenty of coaches don't like Bowen because they've seen first hand how dirty he is.

Catfish1314
08-09-2007, 11:19 PM
He's stronger, but not just as quick.

Yes he is. Artest may be big, but don't let his size confuse you. He is quick with his feet and just as quick as Bowen. Bowen might have been quicker in his younger days but he's not now.

Joshtd1
08-09-2007, 11:27 PM
All of that voting is garbage. Kobe Bryant was voted on over Artest. Raja Bell and Tayshaun Prince were voted on over Artest. Kevin Martin lost the MIP award to Monta Ellis. All of that voting is trash. And plenty of coaches don't like Bowen because they've seen first hand how dirty he is.

Ron Artest is a forward...he cant be voted in a guard spot..and the coaches obviously thought Bowen/Duncan are better then Artest

As for Martin and Ellis, that award is decided by the media, not coaches and GMs

Catfish1314
08-09-2007, 11:31 PM
Ron Artest is a forward...he cant be voted in a guard spot..and the coaches obviously thought Bowen/Duncan are better then Artest

As for Martin and Ellis, that award is decided by the media, not coaches and GMs

That's not it at all. Leave the voting out of it. The league hates Artest so they won't vote him to an all defensive 1st team or 2nd team. And do you really think Tayshaun Prince is a better defender than Ron Artest? There you go. They can think whatever they want. The league hates Artest so they won't vote him on. Playing the "voting" card isn't valid just for that reason. He gets into too much trouble off the court to be recognized for that apparently.

Joshtd1
08-09-2007, 11:40 PM
If that was such an issue, dont you think Bowen and him being dirty would keep him off it as well?

Catfish1314
08-10-2007, 12:47 AM
If that was such an issue, dont you think Bowen and him being dirty would keep him off it as well?

Ron Artest has legal issues. That's a bigger deal than cheating. Off the floor problems are more known. When Artest is on the floor he is a better defender, which is why I think it is a joke that Tayshaun Prince was voted on before him. Bowen I can understand because of his reputation but Prince doesn't even have a reputation. He isn't half the defender Artest is.

hoop talk
08-10-2007, 04:40 AM
ron artest or mike james because nobody gets passed them and if they do somehow these players keep following them but bowen tends to stop if the opposite player blows past him but he is good while they are doing triple threats or setting themselves up-watch some clips

jetsfan28
08-10-2007, 04:56 AM
Artest. I refuse to vote for a guy who's idea of defense is sticking his foot under someone and hurting them.

arlubas
08-10-2007, 04:56 AM
I'd have to say Quinton Ross. C'mon now, Artest and Bowen aren't role player they are certified defensive monsters and people know what to expect from them. But Ross last season showed he was more than capable of containing his guy despite the fact that he was nothing special as a player in whole.

Chronz
08-10-2007, 06:07 AM
I'd have to say Quinton Ross. C'mon now, Artest and Bowen aren't role player they are certified defensive monsters and people know what to expect from them. But Ross last season showed he was more than capable of containing his guy despite the fact that he was nothing special as a player in whole.

Hes a game changer that in itself is special enough, as for what he actually produces yea he may not be that special but most defensive specialist arent either. And hes improved each year hes been in the game, hes like a light bruce bowen offensively in that he doesnt have the corner 3's but hes got the corner mid range shot. If he can improve his range he'd be better than Udoka (Another guy who should be on this list) He also shoots 78% from the stripe which is something Bowen doesnt do.

arlubas
08-10-2007, 06:13 AM
Hes a game changer that in itself is special enough, as for what he actually produces yea he may not be that special but most defensive specialist arent either. And hes improved each year hes been in the game, hes like a light bruce bowen offensively in that he doesnt have the corner 3's but hes got the corner mid range shot. If he can improve his range he'd be better than Udoka (Another guy who should be on this list) He also shoots 78% from the stripe which is something Bowen doesnt do.

Obviously he is better than a lot of other scrubs but what I meant was that he had a starter's role for his defense not his offensive abilities on the floor. He isn't an extremely talented player but he does the dirty work more than enough and that's why he is extremely useful to a team.

Just for the record I never dissed or mocked him, he's actually one of the guys I love to have on the Clippers roster.

rhino17
08-10-2007, 02:00 PM
Artest. I refuse to vote for a guy who's idea of defense is sticking his foot under someone and hurting them.

:clap:I agree, trying to injure other people is just being a p****, not playing good defense

RocketPowered
08-08-2008, 02:08 AM
NOW We got ron and battier together.........ftmfw.....

Dirty Dirk41
08-08-2008, 02:17 AM
I went with Battier. I saw him Play the lakers and he shut down Kobe. Now the Rockets also have Artest. They better be one of the best defensive teams in the NBA

DenButsu
08-08-2008, 02:24 AM
NOW We got ron and battier together.........ftmfw.....

I posted this as a response to your last post in the Spurs forum, too, but just to make sure you (and others who see this thread) see it:


Please don't make a habit of dredging up old dead forum threads and bumping them unless there's some pertinent reason for doing so, such as bumping a prediction thread after the results are known. If you do this a lot it will be considered disruptive behavior and can land you with infractions.

You probably didn't know this, so I'm not trying to come down on you too hard, but we've had a problem with this in the past, so it's best you just know now that it's something that's not really acceptable so you don't do it too much and get yourself into trouble.

Thanks - D

Zefflin
08-08-2008, 10:10 AM
Bowen although filthy dirty, has been the best one on one defender for the past 6 years. He's definitly on the decline in terms of his speed and quickness though. Next year he'll be ready to pass his injury spreading torch to Artest and Battier or whoever else decides to step up on the D side. Artest bullies and harasses people and makes it hard for from to get by him because he's half a tank. Very dexterous that man is. Battier focuses on making every shot contested with his annoying hustle. Plus he loves to take the charge. (he always has his hand an inch from the opposing players face also) Bell is an overrated defender IMO. AK is a great defender but doesn't have the agility to keep up with the speedsters of the league.

It's a tough choice between Artest and Battier. I'll go with the ladder.

On a side note, when Kobe actually chooses and wants to play D, his lockdown ability is unmatched. The Doberman will be unleashed next year.

GCOOKIE7
08-08-2008, 10:45 AM
I'd say Bowen but Artest and AK are somewhat stars....not role players

LakerzDQ
08-08-2008, 10:56 AM
I dont believe Manu elbowed him on purpose..

Now a days NBA players dont like contact..funny how the best NBA players (Kobe, Wade, T-mac, LeBron etc..) never really complain about him and say he plays good tough D.

it's respect. Kobe loves playing against Bowen, because it's a challenge. Kobe's an old school player, he likes contact, he likes playing physical, even though he complains about it afterwards :p.

Bowen just has a way to defend irritate guys, and foul where the refs can't see. sometimes I just hate him, but Bruce Bowen is and was the best one on one defender in our generation.

LakerzDQ
08-08-2008, 10:59 AM
I heard that Bruce Bowen actually doesn't wash his teeth the night and day before the games, so it bothers the players that he guards. that mother F-er just breathes right in front of your face, and you can't help but be distracted by the smell.

ugh, I don't think anyone does as much on defense as him.

charlsdq7
08-08-2008, 11:01 AM
bowen and artest

Joshtd1
08-08-2008, 12:26 PM
it's respect. Kobe loves playing against Bowen, because it's a challenge. Kobe's an old school player, he likes contact, he likes playing physical, even though he complains about it afterwards :p.

Bowen just has a way to defend irritate guys, and foul where the refs can't see. sometimes I just hate him, but Bruce Bowen is and was the best one on one defender in our generation.

Agreed. I know that Kobe and Bowen respect the hell out of each other.

goku
08-09-2008, 12:06 AM
battier and artest even thow hes a scorer

SportsFan1988
08-09-2008, 12:29 AM
No one gives the better players more trouble than Bowen... definitely going with him.

And I wouldn't call Artest a role player, he's more then that. His defense is just a plus.

t mac and vick
08-09-2008, 12:44 AM
good thing artest and battier on the same team now

MOHA
08-09-2008, 01:01 AM
Shane Battier

Jay22Redd
08-09-2008, 01:04 AM
I think Battier because I see him more often