PDA

View Full Version : The Blue Jays trade idea thread



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6

cynomatic
07-16-2007, 08:33 AM
are the Jays going to be sellers or buyers at the trade deadline??? or are they going to stand pat???

Will the Jays move Burnett and or Glaus??? Will they give up some of their top prospects to bring in a player to help them go after a wild card berth??

This thread is for all the Jays trade deadline chatter




STRADDLING

Blue Jays: To sell, and consequently to admit his vision was blurred, would be an extremely difficult decision for J.P. Ricciardi. But if Toronto doesn't make a serious move, he may throw in the towel on A.J. Burnett and also move the guy who has drawn a lot of interest (or, at least curiosity) all season, Troy Glaus

SELLING


White Sox: GM Ken Williams has dropped all pretense, declaring, "We'll have some personnel moves the rest of the season, I guarantee you that." The only question is how many of the free-agency eligibles -- Jermaine Dye and Tadahito Iguchi -- will be moved, and where. A new contract for Buehrle makes expendable a couple of other starters, Jose Contreras and Javier Vazquez.

Reds: GM Wayne Krivsky has let the grapevine know he is ready and willing to move some higher-priced players, with right-hander Kyle Lohse and outfielder Adam Dunn atop the list. But it's a long one: According to published reports, scouts have been told they may as well check out everyone with the exception of Aaron Harang, Homer Bailey, Josh Hamilton, Alex Gonzalez and Brandon Phillips. Notice the absence of Ken Griffey Jr. on that "hands off" roster.

Rangers: GM Jon Daniels is juggling the ultimate luxuries, twin closers in Eric Gagne and Akinori Otsuka. Boston, Detroit, Atlanta, Cleveland and the Dodgers are known to have already inquired about one or the other. Toss in Teixeira and possibly even the reborn Sammy Sosa, and Daniels will be busy.

Orioles: Few untouchables, but new personnel chief Andy MacPhail won't let foes exploit his unfamiliarity with the roster by talking him out of the club's young upside pitchers. "They pay us to talk and listen. So I don't have a problem with doing that," MacPhail said, adding, "I also am not particularly interested in doing anything stupid."


Buying


Cubs: General manager Jim Hendry will leap on their sudden rally back into contention, eager to satisfy any request by Lou Piniella -- who definitely is not shy about lobbying his management for help. But how much latitude to pull triggers will Hendry have in the shadow of the Cubs' pending sale?

Dodgers: With his signature pitching ranks hit by the loss of Jason Schmidt and Randy Wolf's sore shoulder, GM Ned Colletti is adding arms to a shopping list headlined all year by a big bat. The longer the White Sox keep Mark Buehrle-for-Matt Kemp on the table, the better it will start to look.

Phillies: They need help in the back end of both the rotation (Jon Lieber is done for the season with a ruptured tendon in his foot and Freddie Garcia is down with shoulder fraying) and the bullpen (original closer Tom Gordon and replacement Brett Myers are still out). The Mets' refusal to pull away will goad Pat Gillick into action, with outfielders Pat Burrell and Aaron Rowand his leading chips.

Red Sox: Boston learned a lesson last year. GM Theo Epstein will be proactive, even if only in a preemptive mode. "Just because you perform well over the first 2 1/2 months," he says, "doesn't mean you won't need help down the stretch." They may shop for pitching just to play keep-away with the Yankees, and for outfield offense, because they need it.

Indians: Still phobic about their bullpen, which imploded last year to smash any postseason hopes. Joe Borowski has done an above-and-beyond job as the closer, but GM Mark Shapiro is obsessed with adding setup and backup closer arms -- of which plenty are available.

Tigers: Their situation mirrors that of the Indians -- so, besides contending for the same flag, they'll contend for some of the same arms. Manager Jim Leyland feels limited with two of his key relievers -- Joel Zumaya and Fernando Rodney -- on the shelf.





http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070710&content_id=2079803&vkey=trade2007&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

imtheman17
07-16-2007, 10:04 AM
hmmm i know it's gettin close to the deadline, but i still think it might be a little early to start gauging if the jays are gonna make serious moves. JP will reassess the situation his club is in after the series with NY. if the jays get swept, expect JP to sell, if the jays win the series (either 3-1 or 4-0) i think JP will look to add a little more depth, maybe someone with a bat that can back up troy in the evetual circumstances that his foot/ankle begins to bother him yet again.
If an offer comes JPs way that is just gonna knock his socks off, like billingsley, laroche, and maybe a shortstop prospect for glaus, i say all bets are off, only a moron wouldn't pull the trigger. as for burnett, trade him to the mets for millings and humber, as they're both just rotting away in AAA. and if he can move the big hurt to a team sorely lacking at the DH spot, do it, as much as i like the guy, he's eating up $9 million in payroll, trade for something/anything, and use matt stairs as DH. maybe seattle needs a power bat to put them over the top

Oilslick18
07-16-2007, 11:06 AM
I'm guessing that absolutely nothing happens in Blue Jay land...it will also be a slow off-season!

FrankyT
07-16-2007, 11:10 AM
This team is built to win, once we get some luck our way, we will be on fire.

I only think some small trades need to be made, no BIG Troy Glaus ones.

ink
07-16-2007, 11:27 AM
This team is built to win, once we get some luck our way, we will be on fire.

I only think some small trades need to be made, no BIG Troy Glaus ones.

I'm just wondering what FACTS you're basing that on. Did I miss the part of this season or previous seasons when this team put together winning streaks or dominated other teams on a long-term, consistent basis? Any facts or proof? Isn't every team "built to win" until it doesn't?

imtheman17
07-16-2007, 11:50 AM
yeah, JP has stated that he does not plan on doing anything big at the deadline or this offseason, but as we all know it's hard to trust anything that JP says:rolleyes:

Bob_at_york
07-16-2007, 11:53 AM
I'm guessing that absolutely nothing happens in Blue Jay land...it will also be a slow off-season!

I agree. i wish something would happen, I wish the Jays would be buyers but I doubt it. If they do anything then the AJ Burnett deal would be the most likely in my mind especially with JP ripping him a couple of weeks ago.

Ragun
07-16-2007, 11:56 AM
we need to resign troy glaus. he is a big piece to our puzzle. I dont want JP to trade him.

Canadian hemi
07-16-2007, 12:13 PM
Once again, nothing will happen at the deadline!!

McJoe
07-16-2007, 01:05 PM
nothings gonna happen at all

id like to see AJ moved and id like to see Troy move if there is a decent deal on the table but i dont see either happening

if AJ goes anywhere i could see the mariners asking...and i could still see glaus to the dodgers...maybe we just take nomar to break up that controversy and then bills or laroche or something like that

with all that said...still nothing

McJoe
07-16-2007, 01:07 PM
PS id love to see Troy to the yanks for Chamberlin or that other top prospect pitcher

scottythegreat1
07-16-2007, 01:28 PM
The Jays wont make anything big happen, only small trades, such as perhaps trading Royce Clayton or Jason Phillips, that would be it. I doubt theyll trade anyone in their regular lineup.

The only thing I could think of is trading for a shortstop, but that would be it. I doubt that will happen, not with the way John MacDonald is playing that position in the field.

I would be more concerned about the Yankees making some big moves. They have a lot of prospects that played in their starting rotation when everyone got injured, methinks that they could trade for a starting pitcher, and Im sure theyll try to trade Johnny Damon (itll be hard to get anything for him). I dont see the Red Sox doing anything (despite what Epstein said).

I would watch the White Sox, they will likely trade their players away (Dye, Vazquez and Contreras) for some top prospects, same with the Cincinatti Reds (Dunn, Griffey). The Rangers may move Teixiera, those are the names that come to mind, and I feel the Yankees will try to make moves for one or a few of those players.

JAYZFAN9
07-16-2007, 03:50 PM
Like someone else said, I would be willing to bet JP pulls the old 'stand pat' move.. It pisses me right off because im sure there are ways to improve this team for next year that will be overlooked because ricciardi is too proud to admit that his big plan failed- AGAIN.

WillRain
07-16-2007, 04:16 PM
I'm just wondering what FACTS you're basing that on. Did I miss the part of this season or previous seasons when this team put together winning streaks or dominated other teams on a long-term, consistent basis? Any facts or proof? Isn't every team "built to win" until it doesn't?

given the incredibly small number of games this season in which "this team" in it's intended structure, has taken the field for a full turn through the roatation, I don't think one can rationally say there is evidence either way for whether the blueprint for success has succceeded or failed.

In other words, you can't judge the success of the team JP designed and intended to have on March 1 based on the results of the players who have actually taken the field most nights. I don't think there is a GM in the league who would look at the injury riddled mess the season has been so far and conclude he needed to blow up the roster.

McJoe
07-16-2007, 04:18 PM
since we r now supposed to throw all our trade ideas in here...(now there is no substance to this just wat i think we should do)...wat about Chacin and Banks or Tauby or something like that for Brendan Harris with the drays??

WillRain
07-16-2007, 04:20 PM
Like someone else said, I would be willing to bet JP pulls the old 'stand pat' move.. It pisses me right off because im sure there are ways to improve this team for next year that will be overlooked because ricciardi is too proud to admit that his big plan failed- AGAIN.
Yup.

Amazing how your plans fail when a dozen key members of your tema end up on the DL long term - only one of which you should have had any reason to assume would be there....and when your massive-contract-CF and Cy Young-winner Ace both choose the same season to have mediocre first halves.

Certainly any compentnet person should have ben able to see losing, at one time or another, your three top starters, your closer, your set-up man, your catcher, 1B, and LF AND have your two best players be very very ordinary.

Yup - clearly anyone who didn't see THAT coming is an abject FOOL.

Geez.

JAYZFAN9
07-16-2007, 05:43 PM
Yup.

Amazing how your plans fail when a dozen key members of your tema end up on the DL long term - only one of which you should have had any reason to assume would be there....and when your massive-contract-CF and Cy Young-winner Ace both choose the same season to have mediocre first halves.

Certainly any compentnet person should have ben able to see losing, at one time or another, your three top starters, your closer, your set-up man, your catcher, 1B, and LF AND have your two best players be very very ordinary.

Yup - clearly anyone who didn't see THAT coming is an abject FOOL.

Geez.

1. Get a dictionary.

2.Sorry, but i'm just not content watching my favorite sports team miss the playoffs what 13 going on 14 straight seasons? I'm well aware JP wasnt at the helm for the last 14 years its been 6 or 7 IIRC, but man every team deals with injuries. Yes, we have been bit by the injury bug worse than any other team, but whats your excuse for all the other years he put mediocre teams on the field. And the fact that hes too stubborn to admit hes failed again(whether it was injuries or not) and decides to stand pat every year when we are clearly out of contention when he could be improving the club for next year? Thats nothing but pure stubbornness. ADMIT you were wrong and at least TRY to make improvements.

JP also says he will not seek a starter on the trade or FA market next season. You can quote this now- If he does not go out and improve this teams pitching staff via a trade or a FA signing, we are headed for yet ANOTHER season of mediocrity in 2008.

vanjaysfan
07-16-2007, 05:55 PM
Yup.

Amazing how your plans fail when a dozen key members of your tema end up on the DL long term - only one of which you should have had any reason to assume would be there....and when your massive-contract-CF and Cy Young-winner Ace both choose the same season to have mediocre first halves.

Certainly any compentnet person should have ben able to see losing, at one time or another, your three top starters, your closer, your set-up man, your catcher, 1B, and LF AND have your two best players be very very ordinary.

Yup - clearly anyone who didn't see THAT coming is an abject FOOL.

Geez.

You're right, it was easy to predict that Vernon would have a horrible year. He's never strung two above ordinary seasons together in a row, and he had the pressure of signing an absolutely absurd contract in the off-season. It was really a no brainer that he was gonna tank this year. Oh wait, you were being sarcastic....

WillRain
07-16-2007, 08:13 PM
1. Get a dictionary.

2.Sorry, but i'm just not content watching my favorite sports team miss the playoffs what 13 going on 14 straight seasons? I'm well aware JP wasnt at the helm for the last 14 years its been 6 or 7 IIRC, but man every team deals with injuries. Yes, we have been bit by the injury bug worse than any other team, but whats your excuse for all the other years he put mediocre teams on the field. And the fact that hes too stubborn to admit hes failed again(whether it was injuries or not) and decides to stand pat every year when we are clearly out of contention when he could be improving the club for next year? Thats nothing but pure stubbornness. ADMIT you were wrong and at least TRY to make improvements.

JP also says he will not seek a starter on the trade or FA market next season. You can quote this now- If he does not go out and improve this teams pitching staff via a trade or a FA signing, we are headed for yet ANOTHER season of mediocrity in 2008.


Has JP blundered before?

Heck yeah!

Has he taken too long to get it right?

Yup!

Has he been to stubborn to admit he needed to change directions in the past?

Damn straight!

Does any of that make one darn bit of difference whether or not THIS team should be blown up?

Nope.


Do I want him to stand pat this winter? No, sir. But it's not a SP that will make this team better.

At least, not one of those who are both (a) known to be available and (b) likely to even consider the a Jays.



Oh, and BTW, having a dictionary doesn't really check a post for typos....if you can't tolerate a small portion of sloppy typing, then it's no wonder you have unreasonable expectations for the aquisition of new players.

con_artist
07-16-2007, 08:53 PM
AJ for renteria, braves need pitching to keep in the race, we need an ss, we want to get rid of AJ and renteria is not an essential piece to the braves winning, espcially since they have yuniel escobar to replace him.

vanjaysfan
07-16-2007, 09:03 PM
AJ for renteria, braves need pitching to keep in the race, we need an ss, we want to get rid of AJ and renteria is not an essential piece to the braves winning, espcially since they have yuniel escobar to replace him.

I would do that in a second, but I think the Braves are too smart to drink the kool-aid and believe in AJ.

Halladay
07-16-2007, 09:12 PM
i dont see us doing much but i'd love to get Vasquez...very,very under rated pitcher.

ink
07-16-2007, 09:17 PM
given the incredibly small number of games this season in which "this team" in it's intended structure, has taken the field for a full turn through the roatation, I don't think one can rationally say there is evidence either way for whether the blueprint for success has succceeded or failed.

I wrote "this season or previous seasons when this team put together winning streaks or dominated other teams on a long-term, consistent basis?" ANY evidence of any long-term success from ANY JP team would be welcome ...

Hey we're disagreeing, but we both want the team to win. Some of us just don't buy the JP logic anymore and have ZERO faith in his program. How many years of .500-ish evidence do we need? I guess it's easy to fire the *** of a Rob Babcock, but it's harder to fire the middling guys like JP.

AJ Burnett will NOT turn into a success somewhere else. He will not. He already had the perfect conditions here ... a GM who thought he was "the answer", and a pitching coach who would molly-coddle (yes, it's a word, lol) him into realizing his potential. AJ won't get it any better than he's had it in Toronto. Look at what he's produced. It was a bad signing. Trade him already.

vanjaysfan
07-16-2007, 10:02 PM
AJ Burnett will NOT turn into a success somewhere else. He will not. He already had the perfect conditions here ... a GM who thought he was "the answer", and a pitching coach who would molly-coddle (yes, it's a word, lol) him into realizing his potential. AJ won't get it any better than he's had it in Toronto. Look at what he's produced. It was a bad signing. Trade him already.

I agree, it was a bad signing, one of a string of bad moves JP has made recently. The AJ and BJ moves looked great at the time, but now they both kinda stink. AJ appears to be irredeemable, and we've already lost 18 months of BJ. The sad thing, even if he comes back at top form (which isn't a sure thing given his mechanics) the deal already looks horrible because Accardo has proven he can fill the role for a tiny fraction of the cost. So basically we'll be paying Ryan to perform a job that we already have adequately filled. Sweet.

RoyHalladay#32
07-16-2007, 10:48 PM
We are going to stand pat!

2009mvp
07-16-2007, 10:57 PM
AJ for renteria, braves need pitching to keep in the race, we need an ss, we want to get rid of AJ and renteria is not an essential piece to the braves winning, espcially since they have yuniel escobar to replace him.


I would do that in a second, but I think the Braves are too smart to drink the kool-aid and believe in AJ.

You guys are wayyyy off. I'm sorry, but that is the single worst suggestion I've heard on this board. Renteria could be had for much less than AJ. Ridiculous...:mad:

WillRain
07-17-2007, 01:00 AM
I agree, it was a bad signing, one of a string of bad moves JP has made recently. The AJ and BJ moves looked great at the time, but now they both kinda stink. AJ appears to be irredeemable, and we've already lost 18 months of BJ. The sad thing, even if he comes back at top form (which isn't a sure thing given his mechanics) the deal already looks horrible because Accardo has proven he can fill the role for a tiny fraction of the cost. So basically we'll be paying Ryan to perform a job that we already have adequately filled. Sweet.

:laugh:

Bandwagon city....

ink
07-17-2007, 02:10 AM
:laugh:

Bandwagon city....

Er ... the bandwagon forms behind the next guy to hit a game-winning home run and suddenly all the Jays problems are fixed. Or because someone pitches 3 great games all the rotation problems are solved. That's a bandwagon ... ;)

WillRain
07-17-2007, 04:41 AM
or the temp-closer who has a little success and someone decides the stud closer who's hurt isn't necessary...?

Besides -
The band wagon works for gettin' on AND gettin' off.

Sign Frank Thomas:
"OH, Frank's great! Finally we got a real DH!!!"
Frank starts slow:
"Get Frank out of town!"

For just one example. Similar cycles have appeared to one degree or another with half the players on the Jays. I don't frequent other board soI don't know if this is a baseall issue or a PSD Jays board issue or something in between, but this place is virtually schizo with the slingshoting back and forth in the prevailing opinion of a player based on his recent work.


And singing the praises of a young Closer with a dozen or so saves as being one who makes the aquisition of B.J. Ryan unnecessary is the very epitomy of that pehnomena.

T.O. Fan
07-17-2007, 09:25 AM
I think at this point it make sense for the Jays to just stand pat. I know, I know....I love a good trade just like anyone else, but it makes sense to continue on this current path. The Jays can see what kind of pitching depth they actually have by trotting out these young guys (Accardo, Janssen, McGowan, Marcum, Litsch) and deciding who they can use as bait. We all know that pitching (especially starting pitching) is at a premium and that is a big card to hold in any trade negotiations. Add Chacin and League back into the mix and hope that they can regain their previous form and the Jays are laughing.

The offseason may be the best time to make a move at this point, unless, someone offers J.P. a deal he can't refuse.

ink
07-17-2007, 10:05 AM
And singing the praises of a young Closer with a dozen or so saves as being one who makes the aquisition of B.J. Ryan unnecessary is the very epitomy of that pehnomena :confused:.

Dude you really have to chill with the thesaurus. ;) I think the guy was just blowing off steam about the obvious: that JP's FA signings haven't been too successful beyond the initial hype.

---

Anyway, JP likes his team. He feels they'll win for years. Looks like any trades are unlikely ...

2009mvp
07-17-2007, 10:25 AM
Obviously, this team is built to win soon, and the goal of any trade is to improve our chances at contending in 2008. That being said, answer me this, if we deal Glaus for pitching, do we have a viable replacement for him at 3B??

MarkieMark48
07-17-2007, 10:53 AM
Obviously, this team is built to win soon, and the goal of any trade is to improve our chances at contending in 2008. That being said, answer me this, if we deal Glaus for pitching, do we have a viable replacement for him at 3B??

NO, not even close, DO NOT TRADE TROY

palewhiteboy
07-17-2007, 11:15 AM
the only replacement we would have a chance with is aaron hill but then it would void 2nd base....should have kept O-Dawg.....but with that you lose quite a bit of offensive productivity but glove work would be very solid

Bob_at_york
07-17-2007, 11:18 AM
the only replacement we would have a chance with is aaron hill but then it would void 2nd base....should have kept O-Dawg.....but with that you lose quite a bit of offensive productivity but glove work would be very solid

welcome to PSD man!

palewhiteboy
07-17-2007, 11:19 AM
thanks my comments might be a little off cause its hard to keep track of toronto teams down in the states but i do my best

MarkieMark48
07-17-2007, 11:26 AM
the only replacement we would have a chance with is aaron hill but then it would void 2nd base....should have kept O-Dawg.....but with that you lose quite a bit of offensive productivity but glove work would be very solid

the thing is that if we would have kept orlando, aaron hill would still be in the minors rotting away or we would have packaged him in a deal and we would still have russ adams air-mailing every throw to first he would make

ink
07-17-2007, 11:34 AM
the thing is that if we would have kept orlando, aaron hill would still be in the minors rotting away or we would have packaged him in a deal and we would still have russ adams air-mailing every throw to first he would make

No. Hill would be playing SS. It wouldn't have taken Adams too long to drop down the depth chart. Hill is by far the better player.

2009mvp
07-17-2007, 11:58 AM
NO, not even close, DO NOT TRADE TROY

Hahaha...I know, it was kinda a rhetorical question...just pointing out why it's a longshot at this point that JP deals Glaus before the deadline.

MarkieMark48
07-17-2007, 12:10 PM
No. Hill would be playing SS. It wouldn't have taken Adams too long to drop down the depth chart. Hill is by far the better player.

or would we have packaged him in a trade? nobody really knows where he would be playing, or what position. he might have been moved to third with russ playing SS and hudson playing 2B.... we tried him there for a coupla games, nobody knows

Rochesta
07-17-2007, 12:13 PM
Hill might have wound up at 3rd with no Glaus on the roster. As I recall he played a few games there for us.

MarkieMark48
07-17-2007, 12:17 PM
lol you ignoring my statement???

pacman16
07-17-2007, 12:31 PM
didnt hill play SS for a bit and crap it up?? anb thats why hes at 2nd now??
... i wanted to trade glaus before but i like the jays lineup when healthy all the jays need is a SS an high rated pitcher for next year

vanjaysfan
07-17-2007, 01:49 PM
And singing the praises of a young Closer with a dozen or so saves as being one who makes the aquisition of B.J. Ryan unnecessary is the very epitomy of that pehnomena.

First of all, I'm not a bandwagon fan. My point about the Ryan deal was that it violated one of JP's supposedly deeply held beliefs, which was to never pay big for relief pitching, because it's too big a risk for something that could always be had pretty cheaply. Ryan's injury and Accardo's performance demonstrates this pretty well. I'm not saying that Accardo is Dennis Eckersley all of a sudden, just that his performance proves that you don't need to give out huge contracts to find good relief pitching.

Just because I have a negative opinion about something doesn't make me a bandwagon fan. Bandwagon fans are people who think J-Mac is better than Troy Glaus because of their batting averages.

vanjaysfan
07-17-2007, 01:55 PM
the only replacement we would have a chance with is aaron hill but then it would void 2nd base....should have kept O-Dawg.....but with that you lose quite a bit of offensive productivity but glove work would be very solid

The funny thing is, O-Dawg's hitting better than Hill this year, so we wouldn't have lost any production, and we could have had Hill at short. Now that would have been sweet.

McJoe
07-17-2007, 02:07 PM
Hill might have wound up at 3rd with no Glaus on the roster. As I recall he played a few games there for us.


or would we have packaged him in a trade? nobody really knows where he would be playing, or what position. he might have been moved to third with russ playing SS and hudson playing 2B.... we tried him there for a coupla games, nobody knows

hill was moved to 3rd and he played there wen koskie went down...thats where hed be today unless adams forgot wat he was doing (which he did) then hill may have been moved to short


The funny thing is, O-Dawg's hitting better than Hill this year, so we wouldn't have lost any production, and we could have had Hill at short. Now that would have been sweet.

and we would have lost alot of production cause while odog is hitting better than aaron by a little bit he is not hitting well enough to account for glaus and whoever would be playing i guess 3rd in your scenario which sounds like it would be hattig or something.

vanjaysfan
07-17-2007, 02:47 PM
and we would have lost alot of production cause while odog is hitting better than aaron by a little bit he is not hitting well enough to account for glaus and whoever would be playing i guess 3rd in your scenario which sounds like it would be hattig or something.

That's true, I was just responding to the other guy who said Hudson wasn't as good a hitter as Hill. Believe me, I'm glad we have Glaus.

McJoe
07-17-2007, 03:31 PM
ok i got one...lets assume thiggy is going to 2nd...and we dont have a good catcher...wat about trading for a kid

wat do u guys think it would take to get Jarrod Saltalamacchia out of atlanta

i was thinking u could try to say glaus as an option at 1st (or they could move chipper to 1st) or u could try it with some more good prospects...something like Lind, Romero, Faleknbach, one of the new kids, maybe a couple more young relievers like gronky or dejong

i dont think u can overpay for a catcher of the future but the real question is would the braves move salty

WillRain
07-17-2007, 03:50 PM
Dude you really have to chill with the thesaurus. ;) I think the guy was just blowing off steam about the obvious: that JP's FA signings haven't been too successful beyond the initial hype.

---

Anyway, JP likes his team. He feels they'll win for years. Looks like any trades are unlikely ...

LOL

It's pretty cool when, within just a few posts, one guy tells me I need a dictionary and another tells me I'm too wordy...

:D

T.O. Fan
07-17-2007, 03:53 PM
ok i got one...lets assume thiggy is going to 2nd...and we dont have a good catcher...wat about trading for a kid

wat do u guys think it would take to get Jarrod Saltalamacchia out of atlanta

i was thinking u could try to say glaus as an option at 1st (or they could move chipper to 1st) or u could try it with some more good prospects...something like Lind, Romero, Faleknbach, one of the new kids, maybe a couple more young relievers like gronky or dejong

i dont think u can overpay for a catcher of the future but the real question is would the braves move salty

I was thinking of that one today McJoe! On the mlb trade rumors site it says that the Braves are looking for a good young major league pitcher. It would probably take Marcum in some sort of package to get Salty to Toronto. Again, probably better to wait till the offseason to make sure we have a good starting rotation for next year. Does anyone know how Salty is defensively / throwing out runners???

WillRain
07-17-2007, 03:55 PM
First of all, I'm not a bandwagon fan. My point about the Ryan deal was that it violated one of JP's supposedly deeply held beliefs, which was to never pay big for relief pitching, because it's too big a risk for something that could always be had pretty cheaply. Ryan's injury and Accardo's performance demonstrates this pretty well. I'm not saying that Accardo is Dennis Eckersley all of a sudden, just that his performance proves that you don't need to give out huge contracts to find good relief pitching.

Just because I have a negative opinion about something doesn't make me a bandwagon fan. Bandwagon fans are people who think J-Mac is better than Troy Glaus because of their batting averages.

LOL...I expect that last one any day now...

It's not really so much you in particular, it's the overall tone of the board.

But going back to the question of "JP's deeply held beliefs"....isn't it an article of faith around here that one of JP's big flaws is clinging to desperately to his "deeply held beliefs" in spite of the evidence?

Wasn't there a time when JP was routinely ripped for "moneyball" choices? For disrespecting the value of speed? for insiting on drafting college players?

so why, when he changes his views, is that a cause for criticism?

WillRain
07-17-2007, 03:58 PM
IF Salty really is a good long term CATCHER as he is supposed to be, I probably would let marcum or Janssen go to get him....too bad JS isn't gullable enough to take Chacin...:D

T.O. Fan
07-17-2007, 04:00 PM
IF Salty really is a good long term CATCHER as he is supposed to be, I probably would let marcum or Janssen go to get him....too bad JS isn't gullableenough to take Chacin...:D

I know....it's too bad Chacin can't stay healthy / consistent!!!

vanjaysfan
07-17-2007, 04:54 PM
But going back to the question of "JP's deeply held beliefs"....isn't it an article of faith around here that one of JP's big flaws is clinging to desperately to his "deeply held beliefs" in spite of the evidence?

Wasn't there a time when JP was routinely ripped for "moneyball" choices? For disrespecting the value of speed? for insiting on drafting college players?

so why, when he changes his views, is that a cause for criticism?

You're right, he has done that in the past, and it's a huge flaw of his. The real problem, though, is that he doesn't seem capable of discerning between which tenants of Moneyball are worthwhile and which ones aren't. The colleg players example is a good one: for a long time, college players were undervalued, so it made sense to draft them. That changed around the time JP was hired, though, and it took him too long to figure out that it had changed.

Moneyball isn't about a rigid set of rules, it's about thinking critically to exploit inneficient practices, and the BJ Ryan contract is an excellent example of how JP has failed to do that.

McJoe
07-17-2007, 05:03 PM
i think with the weakness in the bullpen and rotation for the braves if we had A good pitching prospect then it would be him and a couple pen guys but since we dont i would doubt our chances without throwing in marcum

altho something like this might work:

to toronto:
Salty
other prospect

to braves:
Janssen
Gronky
Romero
Kreuzer

vanjaysfan
07-17-2007, 05:27 PM
i think with the weakness in the bullpen and rotation for the braves if we had A good pitching prospect then it would be him and a couple pen guys but since we dont i would doubt our chances without throwing in marcum

altho something like this might work:

to toronto:
Salty
other prospect

to braves:
Janssen
Gronky
Romero
Kreuzer


I'd do it, but then again, I'm a big Saltamacchia fan. I actually don't think the Braves would do that - Janssen is solid but everyone else in the deal is a big question mark

T.O. Fan
07-17-2007, 06:27 PM
OK, so a few people agree that it would take Marcum to get Salty from Atlanta........so.........would you do it?

I would still like to know about his defensive skills.

MarkieMark48
07-17-2007, 06:50 PM
OK, so a few people agree that it would take Marcum to get Salty from Atlanta........so.........would you do it?

I would still like to know about his defensive skills.


I wouldnt say hes got a cannon or anything but he is solid defensively.. i dont know what % he throws out but he is by far better than anyone we have on both sides offensively and defensively... as far as trading marcum.. i would much rather trade chacin and maybe two other prospects. they need a left fielder now, and they will need another one this offseason when andruw leaves.... maybe we could send them JFG/Chacin and maybe another pitching prospect like david purcey... iduno, but I think marcum has won his job here to stay, and i dont wanna see him leave

vanjaysfan
07-17-2007, 06:57 PM
maybe we could send them JFG/Chacin and maybe another pitching prospect like david purcey... iduno, but I think marcum has won his job here to stay, and i dont wanna see him leave

The Atlanta GM is way too smart to make that deal. We'd basically be giving them scrubs for one of the best players in the game. I think to get Saltamcchia it's gonna take an impressive package, something like Marcum, Accardo and a throw in like purcey.

Chipper
07-17-2007, 07:03 PM
We mostly want a young ace still under team control for Salty. (Ian Snell like)
He has an average arm as a catcher and can throw guys out.

MarkieMark48
07-17-2007, 08:46 PM
The Atlanta GM is way too smart to make that deal. We'd basically be giving them scrubs for one of the best players in the game. I think to get Saltamcchia it's gonna take an impressive package, something like Marcum, Accardo and a throw in like purcey.

but the value of pitching, has gone way way up, you have to remember that. basically salty is a curtis thigpen with a little pop in his bat, this is his first stint in the bigs, and we really dont know how good he will be, but he looks promising, like chipper said, hes got great, but hes better than what we have now... i think a combo of litsch and chacin would land him, maybe even litsch stright up...

Chipper
07-17-2007, 08:57 PM
Your going to have to over whelm Scheurholz. Like he said, "I have no intention of trading Saltalamacchia". He looks to deal with the Pirates if he's gonna do it. Ian Snell or Tom Gorzellany are the rumors for him.

McJoe
07-17-2007, 11:23 PM
Your going to have to over whelm Scheurholz. Like he said, "I have no intention of trading Saltalamacchia". He looks to deal with the Pirates if he's gonna do it. Ian Snell or Tom Gorzellany are the rumors for him.

well id def say that marcum is better than both of those guys...and id give janssen a shot up there with em both too...i dont see gorzellany as an ace...Snell has great stuff and i really like the guy but if i had my choice...nmaybe im being a homer but still...id take marcum

Rochesta
07-18-2007, 12:26 AM
Marcum I would personally consider to be an un-tradeable at this point considering what he has done to righties in his starts. I'd rather try to move Chacin or maybe Janssen. We've never talked about trading Janssen, but I think we could give it a look because he might be unnecessary as a starter for us and he also might be under-utilized in the bullpen with a healthy Ryan/League. I also think Accardo's value as a future closer for a young team like TB or Arizona, maybe the Phillies, might become very enticing in the offseason.

We do need a catcher, and I'm willing to pay a decent amount to obtain one. A Shortstop would also be nice.

MarkieMark48
07-18-2007, 03:09 AM
i really do think if for some reason the braves decide to put salty on the market, we should defenately try to obtain him

D.P. Master
07-18-2007, 03:47 AM
A lot of you have given up on this team already. JP may be terrible in public relations and may have treated his players like ****, brought some up too early, etc. but this team is very good. A lot of the bad things that have happened is bad luck and doesn't have as much to do with JP as it does with Gibbons, etc. It is simply way too early to be giving up on this nucleus. IMO all this team needs is a solid #3 starter and an injury free season and it's a whole new AL East.

RoadWarrior
07-18-2007, 07:58 AM
IMO all this team needs is a solid #3 starter and an injury free season and it's a whole new AL East.

Well I agree the above statement is true, but...

Since the FA crop will suck, where do we get this #3 starter without trading a big piece? Unless of course you think that Marcum or McGowan is that man, but I don't think either of them is quite there yet - McGowan is too inconsistent and Marcum has come down to earth a bit in his last 2 starts. I'd be happy with them as 4 and 5, but I don't think either can be a reliable #3 yet.

Also, while the Jays' injury situation has been ridiculous this season, it's even more ridiculous to expect or even hope for an "injury free season". The Jays will have injuries again next year no question - we'd have to be pretty lucky for those injuries not to really effect our challenge.

All in all it's true that, if healthy and playing-to-potential, this group of players isn't far off winning, but they're still not quite there either. I can't see any big trades happening and that means we'll probably be a little bit short with the same group of players again next year.

T.O. Fan
07-18-2007, 09:07 AM
Marcum I would personally consider to be an un-tradeable at this point considering what he has done to righties in his starts. I'd rather try to move Chacin or maybe Janssen. We've never talked about trading Janssen, but I think we could give it a look because he might be unnecessary as a starter for us and he also might be under-utilized in the bullpen with a healthy Ryan/League. I also think Accardo's value as a future closer for a young team like TB or Arizona, maybe the Phillies, might become very enticing in the offseason.

We do need a catcher, and I'm willing to pay a decent amount to obtain one. A Shortstop would also be nice.

I don't think (IMO) that the Jays would get fair value for Janssen at this point. If he were starting and had an ERA in the high 3's or maybe even low 4's his value would be higher than his current 2.44 ERA in the pen.

Shifty1 69
07-18-2007, 09:16 AM
A lot of you have given up on this team already. JP may be terrible in public relations and may have treated his players like ****, brought some up too early, etc. but this team is very good. A lot of the bad things that have happened is bad luck and doesn't have as much to do with JP as it does with Gibbons, etc. It is simply way too early to be giving up on this nucleus. IMO all this team needs is a solid #3 starter and an injury free season and it's a whole new AL East.

Well said. Although to be fair, moods are a little low in these parts with the last 2 losses to the Yanks, lol.
I would like to see a good 3-5 starter (not someone that would have to step it up to compete for #5:rolleyes:), someone along the lines of a Jason Jennings etc.
Jennings and Kaz Matsui in the offseason and I would be happy going into next season.

I have never seen fans so sceptical about the ability of their home team. Add what I said above, start the season over and hope like hell the health holds up a little better, I would put $ on this team making the playoffs, IMO win the east!!
The starting pitching would be very good... best in the east, if not the american league!!!
But even with the insane (and key) injuries, complete early failure from 3-5 starters, a 9 game losing streak etc, fans are ready to blow up the ship.

Salty would/could be a great addition for a C weak team, but will the gain at that position replace a young inexpensive starting pitcher?? Tough call unless you are the Dodgers or another team loaded with young blue chip pitchers.

Shifty1 69
07-18-2007, 09:40 AM
I can't see any big trades happening and that means we'll probably be a little bit short with the same group of players again next year.

case in point....:rolleyes:

McJoe
07-18-2007, 09:52 AM
A lot of you have given up on this team already. JP may be terrible in public relations and may have treated his players like ****, brought some up too early, etc. but this team is very good. A lot of the bad things that have happened is bad luck and doesn't have as much to do with JP as it does with Gibbons, etc. It is simply way too early to be giving up on this nucleus. IMO all this team needs is a solid #3 starter and an injury free season and it's a whole new AL East.

sry deosnt happen with this group

i do think that this group is good enough to win the AL East...this year is over cause were snake bit especially if doc turns out to be pitching hurt cause then everyone will be injured...i wouldnt mind seeing AJ moved cause he doesnt help us cause hes always hurt...and i would only move glaus if u could get more than fair return for the guy

i somewhat agree with ur statement altho if we have an injury free season then AJ is that solid #3

Chipper
07-18-2007, 09:57 AM
We do need a catcher, and I'm willing to pay a decent amount to obtain one. A Shortstop would also be nice.

We'll trade you Salty and Yunel for Roy Halladay.

McJoe
07-18-2007, 10:03 AM
We'll trade you Salty and Yunel for Roy Halladay.

um.....no...actually.....no

Bob_at_york
07-18-2007, 10:04 AM
IMO all this team needs is a solid #3 starter and an injury free season and it's a whole new AL East.
I have been blaming injuries all season long but a good point was brought up last week on a radio show: All teams have injuries, it is about how you overcome the injuries that makes you a playoff team or not. Whether I fully agree with that or not, it is a good point.

Chipper
07-18-2007, 10:05 AM
What? you want Jo Jo Reyes too?

McJoe
07-18-2007, 10:08 AM
What? you want Jo Jo Reyes too?

no i want this trade:

to atlanta:
Roy Halladay

to Toronto:
Salty
McCann
Yunel
Francouer
James
Soriano
Davies
Smoltz
Turner Field

Chipper
07-18-2007, 10:19 AM
no i want this trade:

to atlanta:
Roy Halladay

to Toronto:
Salty
McCann
Yunel
Francouer
James
Soriano
Davies
Smoltz
Turner Field

:speechless: :) :D No! That's crazy, keep Roy, We'll go for Oswalt.

Twitchy
07-18-2007, 10:19 AM
no i want this trade:

to atlanta:
Josh Towers
Russ Adams
JFG
JP
Chad Motolla
Jason Phillips

to Toronto:
Salty
McCann
Yunel
Francouer
James
Soriano
Davies
Smoltz
JS (GM)
Cash - salaries paid for all players to the point where Toronto owes each player $ 350,000.00


I fixed the parts in bolded to make it a fair trade :p.

MarkieMark48
07-18-2007, 10:27 AM
why not something like this:

To Atlanta:
Gustavo Chacin
Jessie Litsch
John Ford-Griffin

To Toronto:
Salty
Martin Prado

Chipper
07-18-2007, 10:30 AM
Yeah, but take Ford and Litsch and give us Josh Towers, Chacin, and we'll throw in Yunel to get Brandon League.

MarkieMark48
07-18-2007, 10:34 AM
so..
To Atl:
Josh Towers
Gustavo Chacin
Brandon League

To Tor:
Salty
Martin Prado
Yunel Escobar?

McJoe
07-18-2007, 10:35 AM
:speechless: :) :D No! That's crazy, keep Roy, We'll go for Oswalt.

i think houston would love to own ur stadium too im not sure y these kind of trades rnt offered more often :p


I fixed the parts in bolded to make it a fair trade :p.

if ur gonna go that way then u should go all the way

to atlanta:
Towers
Burnett
Thomas
Clayton
JP
gibby

to Toronto:
Salty
McCann
Yunel
Francouer
Andruw Jones
Chipper
James
Soriano
Hudson
Smoltz
JS
Bobby Cox
Turner Field
Cash - all salaries in trade

Chipper
07-18-2007, 10:48 AM
No use in making a deal, all of you are like JP, always joking on a deal. we're as serious as JS

MarkieMark48
07-18-2007, 10:51 AM
No use in making a deal, all of you are like JP, always joking on a deal. we're as serious as JS

i was serious.. look up at my post... is that what you meant?

Twitchy
07-18-2007, 11:09 AM
No use in making a deal, all of you are like JP, always joking on a deal. we're as serious as JS

Yeah, because any deal involving Roy Halladay is a serious trade :rolleyes:. I assumed it meant you either had no idea what you were talking about, or that you yourself were joking. Halladay isn't going anywhere.

Bob_at_york
07-18-2007, 11:15 AM
Yeah, because any deal involving Roy Halladay is a serious trade :rolleyes:. I assumed it meant you either had no idea what you were talking about, or that you yourself were joking. Halladay isn't going anywhere.

Maybe they would be interested in acquiring Vernon and letting Jones go this offseason. That could be a good fit.

Chipper
07-18-2007, 11:20 AM
No. Vernon has too high of a contract and that looked like a fair deal for Halladay. And yes Markie, that's what I meant, but I was referring to the McJoe deal.

MarkieMark48
07-18-2007, 11:25 AM
And yes Markie, that's what I meant

Id probably go for that...is there any interest in subing accardo for league?

2009mvp
07-18-2007, 11:33 AM
No. Vernon has too high of a contract and that looked like a fair deal for Halladay. And yes Markie, that's what I meant, but I was referring to the McJoe deal.

IF Doc were an impending free-agent or we were going into a total rebuilding process, then that might be a possibility, (a very slim one at that) but right now you'd have to give up the moon to create a fair deal for Doc.

Bob_at_york
07-18-2007, 11:35 AM
No. Vernon has too high of a contract and that looked like a fair deal for Halladay.
I don't have the numbers in front of me but I believe that Doc has a pretty big contract too.

McJoe
07-18-2007, 11:44 AM
No. Vernon has too high of a contract and that looked like a fair deal for Halladay. And yes Markie, that's what I meant, but I was referring to the McJoe deal.

well i didnt start with the joke deal...well i guess i did since i asked for ur stadium for him in the first place...and i started my post with taking the joke prolly too far but wat the heck and wen i finished it there were like 4 more up there so i didnt mean to post such a ******** deal after a real deal...

but is league chacin and towers really enough to get salty and yunel...is there something wrong with one of em??

MarkieMark48
07-18-2007, 11:47 AM
but is league chacin and towers really enough to get salty and yunel...is there something wrong with one of em??

we want Martin Prado too man... he plays in richmond in AAA, which is where I live, so i get to see him play a lot.. and he would be a perfect fit for this team... imagine a ryan roberts that can hit, and steal bases.. he plays pretty much any infield position except 1st and is a great fielder at all of them, he would defenately be a great addition

I would probably do
To Atl:
Towers
Chacin
League

To Tor:
Salty
Escobar
Prado

but i would defenately do
To Atl:
Towers
Chacin
Accardo(not because he is bad, but we will have BJ Ryan back, and hes kinda the odd-man-out)

To Tor:
Salty
Escobar
Prado

Twitchy
07-18-2007, 11:59 AM
I'd avoid doing a deal with League if possible. I'm really high on him as a player and think he'll play a huge role in the future. Accardo's done well as a closer, but I get more confidence (from a personal standpoint) watching League than Accardo.

Chipper
07-18-2007, 12:01 PM
well i didnt start with the joke deal...well i guess i did since i asked for ur stadium for him in the first place...and i started my post with taking the joke prolly too far but wat the heck and wen i finished it there were like 4 more up there so i didnt mean to post such a ******** deal after a real deal...

but is league chacin and towers really enough to get salty and yunel...is there something wrong with one of em??

There's nothing wrong with them, what want to give us more? I'll take Accardo right off your hands if you want me too.

Chipper
07-18-2007, 12:02 PM
do the Blue Jays have Matt Stairs? I'll take him too.

MarkieMark48
07-18-2007, 12:07 PM
na, I think matt stairs is gonna be here for a few years...

but i think everyone in here would do
to ATL:
Towers
Chacin
Accardo

to TOR:
Salty
Escobar
Prado

What do you think guys?

T.O. Fan
07-18-2007, 12:29 PM
We'll trade you Salty and Yunel for Roy Halladay.

LMFAO!!!!!!!!

Ragun
07-18-2007, 12:29 PM
hmm....i never heard of those 3 from atlanta.

Ragun
07-18-2007, 12:30 PM
i rather stick with escobar than glaus. blue jays need his power.

johnny_was
07-18-2007, 12:36 PM
we want Martin Prado too man... he plays in richmond in AAA, which is where I live, so i get to see him play a lot.. and he would be a perfect fit for this team... imagine a ryan roberts that can hit, and steal bases.. he plays pretty much any infield position except 1st and is a great fielder at all of them, he would defenately be a great addition

This sort of begs the question of what exactly Ryan Roberts does, except collect tattoos, of course...

T.O. Fan
07-18-2007, 12:36 PM
There's nothing wrong with them, what want to give us more? I'll take Accardo right off your hands if you want me too.

Why would you guys accept Chacin and League for Salty, but not Marcum? Right now, Marcum has more value on the trade market (IMO) than those too. Both of them (Chacin / League) have been somewhat injury prone / wild and are not "proven" starters in the majors.

T.O. Fan
07-18-2007, 12:37 PM
This sort of begs the question of what exactly Ryan Roberts does, except collect tattoos, of course...

LOL!!!

McJoe
07-18-2007, 12:49 PM
This sort of begs the question of what exactly Ryan Roberts does, except collect tattoos, of course...

ryan roberts is the ultimate utility man...well after mark grace:p

he can play everywhere except center...yes even catcher as he has a couple innings there this year...he is a decent hitter with surprising pop...he should be on this team now but i guess hell just take over for howie clark

McJoe
07-18-2007, 12:52 PM
There's nothing wrong with them, what want to give us more? I'll take Accardo right off your hands if you want me too.

well i figured that the braves would want more than that for salty since u dissmissed marcum in favour of a guy with ace type stuff like snell or gorzellanny...so y would u take a future closer and 2 back end of the rotation starters...i just dont want u to get my hopes up...if i thot that the jays could trade their 5th starter platoon and one of the 4 7,8,9 inning guys and get the catcher and ss of our future then id be pissed that it didnt happen even tho it was just an idea on a forum full of random ppl who have nothing to do with any of the goings on in the organization

Chipper
07-18-2007, 12:53 PM
Why would you guys accept Chacin and League for Salty, but not Marcum? Right now, Marcum has more value on the trade market (IMO) than those too. Both of them (Chacin / League) have been somewhat injury prone / wild and are not "proven" starters in the majors.

None of our guys have ever been injury prone (excluding Mike Hampton). Our Trainers are great with the players and can handle Chacin/League.

MarkieMark48
07-18-2007, 04:42 PM
This sort of begs the question of what exactly Ryan Roberts does, except collect tattoos, of course...

Martin Prado is 10x better than ryan roberts... ryan roberts i think(correct me if im wrong) has 2 major league hits?

johnny_was
07-18-2007, 05:39 PM
Here's a Ken Rosenthal piece on how MLB teams have gone all gay for prospects in recent years. It's relevant to this discussion.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7028662

Chipper
07-18-2007, 05:48 PM
Martin Prado is 10x better than ryan roberts... ryan roberts i think(correct me if im wrong) has 2 major league hits?

If he's ten times better, we'll give you him for a starter like Marcum. Prado isn't a good player. We'll give you Pete Orr if you want him as well.

MarkieMark48
07-18-2007, 05:55 PM
If he's ten times better, we'll give you him for a starter like Marcum. Prado isn't a good player. We'll give you Pete Orr if you want him as well.

lol you just agreed to accardo, towers and chacin for prado salty and escobar... escobar isnt really needed if we get prado. if you think prado isnt that good, why would you want more? you should be overwhelmed if you get 2 rotation guys and a closer for a guy that you think is going to be in the minors for a while.

MarkieMark48
07-19-2007, 11:31 AM
hey guys, what do you think about getting ruben gotay from the mets, im sure it wouldnt take much more than like accardo to get him

frostilicus
07-19-2007, 02:21 PM
I wouldn't be willing to trade much more than Russ Adams to get him.

McJoe
07-19-2007, 02:44 PM
^^^agreed

con_artist
07-19-2007, 04:02 PM
my fantasy plan (its a fantasy for a reason)
1.burnett for renteria
2.glaus for laroche and billingsly
3.lind and chacin for snell/gorzelanny
4.sign eric byrnes for LF

Roster looks like

C Zaun
1B Overbay
2B Hill
3B Laroche
SS Renteria
LF Byrnes
CF Wells
RF Rios

Halladay
Marcum
Billingsly
Snell/Gorzelanny
McGowan

only real problem left is catcher

Bob_at_york
07-19-2007, 04:47 PM
I don't want Renteria

T.O. Fan
07-19-2007, 05:00 PM
Hey, on the Baltimore forum under the thread "what is Erik Bedard worth?" this person is ripping on Jesse Litsch. If anyone has his minor league stats from this year - PLEASE - post them.

Thanks

T.O. Fan
07-19-2007, 05:08 PM
Never mind.....I found the stats. If any of you wish to chime in on the Baltimore forum though......be my guest!

2009mvp
07-19-2007, 05:21 PM
^^I was reading it, you completely lowballed them with that offer. Lind's a good starting point for Bedard, but you have to think Flanagan wouldn't even consider the deal unless either McGowan or Marcum (prob. Marcum) were included.

Rochesta
07-19-2007, 05:25 PM
^^ I definitely don't want to send Marcum over there so he can unleash on our all-righty lineup.

2009mvp
07-19-2007, 05:36 PM
^ Not saying we should, just saying that's probably more like what it would take.

Rochesta
07-19-2007, 06:01 PM
^^ Yeah true. What about Glaus over to them to be their new DH/1B/spot 3B and Litsch or something of that nature. Send Glaus over to Balt. to be that 4th hitter that they've lacked. But, I don't see him waiving his clause for Baltimore...

T.O. Fan
07-19-2007, 06:58 PM
^ Not saying we should, just saying that's probably more like what it would take.

The Jays would be getting ripped off on that deal. When was the last time a team sent two major league ready prospects (IMO) to a team for their best pitcher?

The only other one I can think of was Boston sending Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez to the Marlins for Beckett. IMO, Boston lost that deal.

2009mvp
07-19-2007, 09:55 PM
The Jays would be getting ripped off on that deal. When was the last time a team sent two major league ready prospects (IMO) to a team for their best pitcher?

The only other one I can think of was Boston sending Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez to the Marlins for Beckett. IMO, Boston lost that deal.

True, but right now, the O's have no incentive to trade the guy. Like I said, unless Bedard goes public or tells management he doesn't want to be in Baltimore long-term, they have the upper-hand in any deal. We'd have to give up major-league ready talent, especially to a team that really expects to compete (even though they never do) in this division.

boms-4
07-21-2007, 01:15 PM
Although they say they're not looking to make changes, the Jays reportedly have made Troy Glaus available in trade talks.

"I wouldn't say they are exactly pushing him the way they tried to trade Alex Rios a few years back," an NL scout told the Toronto Sun. "But they've made it known he's available. The phrase was: 'We're not giving away a 30-homer, 100-RBI guy.'" Glaus has no-trade protection and might only accept a trade back to the West Coast. The Dodgers, Angels and Padres could all use him, but the Padres probably don't have the cash to take him on.

rotoworld

D-Train#35
07-21-2007, 02:12 PM
If the Rangers have a fire sale do you think we'll make a move for Michael Young?

T.O. Fan
07-22-2007, 11:34 AM
A Pittsburgh paper is reporting that the Jays have interest in Pirates SS Jack Wilson. It also claims that Toronto will give up major league talent to acquire him. My question is a resounding WHY? His stats are terrible and he makes big $$. I wouldn't even move Howie Clark to get him.

bomber0104
07-22-2007, 11:45 AM
If the Rangers have a fire sale do you think we'll make a move for Michael Young?

he is their franchise players

Twitchy
07-22-2007, 12:06 PM
A Pittsburgh paper is reporting that the Jays have interest in Pirates SS Jack Wilson. It also claims that Toronto will give up major league talent to acquire him. My question is a resounding WHY? His stats are terrible and he makes big $$. I wouldn't even move Howie Clark to get him.

I saw that article. It doesn't mention direct quotes from JP. It is a WRITERS speculation that if the Pirates pay for the salary, logically they could get a big piece in return, of which the WRITER believes it COULD be a major league talent. I hope it doesn't happen though. We'd be better with Hill + Adams. Hell, we'd be better with J-Mac...

It's like a Star article claiming the Jays COULD get Billingsley & LaRoche for Glaus. It'll never happen, but it's POSSIBLE.

boms-4
07-22-2007, 12:44 PM
A Pittsburgh paper is reporting that the Jays have interest in Pirates SS Jack Wilson. It also claims that Toronto will give up major league talent to acquire him. My question is a resounding WHY? His stats are terrible and he makes big $$. I wouldn't even move Howie Clark to get him.

do you got a link for that?

boms-4
07-22-2007, 12:45 PM
nevermind....

The Blue Jays have expressed interest in acquiring Jack Wilson from the Pirates in a trade.

Any trade is unlikely to happen until after the July 31 non-waiver deadline, mostly because the Pirates surely will be asked to pick up a significant portion of the $14.25 million Wilson is owed after this season.

rotoworld

T.O. Fan
07-22-2007, 07:55 PM
With the Jays rotation pitching so well lately, what do you think will happen when Burnett and Chacin come off the DL? I guess you could ship Litsch back to AAA. Do the Jays move either Towers or Chacin to the pen? I have to admit that Towers has been pretty effective recently, but the thought of Chacin coming into a game with runners on is scary. What do you guys think?

Bob_at_york
07-22-2007, 08:36 PM
nevermind....

The Blue Jays have expressed interest in acquiring Jack Wilson from the Pirates in a trade.

Any trade is unlikely to happen until after the July 31 non-waiver deadline, mostly because the Pirates surely will be asked to pick up a significant portion of the $14.25 million Wilson is owed after this season.

rotoworld

i hate him. I hope JP doesn't acquire him.

T.O. Fan
07-23-2007, 11:50 AM
I would like to see the Jays get Jimmy Rollins from the Phils, but..........that's not going to happen.

natey2k4
07-23-2007, 12:53 PM
http://torontosun.com/Sports/Baseball/2007/07/23/4361173-sun.html

If Towers does indeed get traded, Philly is a place I'd love to see him go. My 3rd favourite team and a chance to contend for the World Series.

The Pirates are my 2nd favourite team, but I wouldn't wish any of my favourite players there..

Rochesta
07-23-2007, 02:47 PM
With the Jays rotation pitching so well lately, what do you think will happen when Burnett and Chacin come off the DL? I guess you could ship Litsch back to AAA. Do the Jays move either Towers or Chacin to the pen? I have to admit that Towers has been pretty effective recently, but the thought of Chacin coming into a game with runners on is scary. What do you guys think?

Towers will be moved to make room before the deadline, I'm pretty positive about that.

T.O. Fan
07-23-2007, 03:29 PM
Towers will be moved to make room before the deadline, I'm pretty positive about that.


I wouldn't mind getting Michael Bourn out of Philadelphia for Towers and a moderate prospect. He would be a great fourth outfielder who can play all three positoins, left bat and can steal some bases. Of course, I am not overly familiar with him, so I may be way off.

T.O. Fan
07-23-2007, 03:46 PM
Well, I just checked the Phillies forum and is you ask their fans, Bourn could get them Bronson Arroyo or Matt Morris, so maybe I was off a little bit ;) or maybe they're shooting too high.

FrankyT
07-23-2007, 04:16 PM
Awwweee.

That sucks. Kinda wanted to see Towers a bit more. He was really doing well. I guess he would be on the bench when AJ comes back anyway...

con_artist
07-25-2007, 01:19 AM
im still stressing that the jays should pursue a guy like renteria, apparently chicago turned down a deal that was garland for renteria! are they retarted? renteria is a solid ss defensively and offensively. now if the braves are dealing him for pitching AJs numbers are extremely comparable to garlands
AJ- 4.31 ERA 5-6 106 K
Garland- 4.15 ERA 7-7 58 K
if they need a little incentive throw in chacin, that should do it.

oh and deal any and all loose ends for prospects (although that really just means deal stairs and towers and at least we'll get something out of it) and deal glaus for a young 3B/Solid picher combo (Laroche and billingsly, wood and santana)

WillRain
07-25-2007, 05:08 AM
Well, I just checked the Phillies forum and is you ask their fans, Bourn could get them Bronson Arroyo or Matt Morris, so maybe I was off a little bit ;) or maybe they're shooting too high.


going to a fan forum is not the most objective place to get an assesment of what a guy will bring. Ifthe hometwn fans THINK he's worth Arroyo, then he probably is really only worth Towers.

Sorta like the high opinions some folks have of what Chacin could bring us...lol

T.O. Fan
07-25-2007, 03:57 PM
^^^^ Trust me, I know all about that! I have spent a fair amount of time on the LA Dodgers thread, enough to know about fans way overvaluing their players!! Lol!!

WillRain
07-25-2007, 07:43 PM
How about this...totally made up and relying some on a guess at how Kenny Willimas evaluates players...

To the White Sox (players described as one would hope williams would see them):
Reed Johnson - gritty OF with a little pop and underused speed.
Gus Chacin - Undervalued LHP, cheap mid-to-back rotation starter.
Russ Adams - option for replacing Iguchi
David Purcey/Rickey Romero - pick up first round talent on the cheap while their value is down.

(YES, I KNOW this is the classic "pile up several of your marginal players and hope they look good in a package" proposal.)

To Atlanta - Garland

To the Jays - Rentiria

Pretty unrealistic unless you are appealing to Williams preconceptions about the sort of players he likes.

He is shopping an expensive starter in an effort to remold histeam and he didn't jump at Rehtira, which is the obvious play, so maybe he want several cheaper players instead.
:shrug:

WillRain
07-25-2007, 07:47 PM
Here's another thought:

the Braves are reportedly unhappy with their 1B situation. If you culd trade Lyle Overbay to Atlanta for Rentiria (dressit up with throw ins however you like) and let Stairs play 1B the rest of the year while Lind was converte to iB for next year - would you do it?

I am almost certain I would.

T.O. Fan
07-25-2007, 08:35 PM
Wow, did you see what the Padres got for Linebrink? An MLB ready reliever, their 3rd best prospect and another prospect for a guy who can walk at the end of this year. Don't get me wrong, Linebrink is a top reliever. This just goes to show the trade value of pitchers right now.

MarkieMark48
07-25-2007, 11:58 PM
Here's another thought:

the Braves are reportedly unhappy with their 1B situation. If you culd trade Lyle Overbay to Atlanta for Rentiria (dressit up with throw ins however you like) and let Stairs play 1B the rest of the year while Lind was converte to iB for next year - would you do it?

I am almost certain I would.

If Lind could play 1st base absolutly, if he couldnt... no way

Now if we could make a bid deal such as like overbay, towers and chacin for rentiria and saltalamacchia... id do that in a heartbeat... wouldnt ever happen, but id do something like that and then groom lind at 1B and sign stairs for another 2 years or something

Rochesta
07-26-2007, 12:51 AM
I like Overbay too much to move him for Renteria, he's a way better 1B than Renteria is a ss. SS is harder to find but so is that bat who can hit anywhere you put him in the lineup and fields a top notch first base, and is a good guy in the clubhouse.

I think Accardo or League for Renteria is more possible, since the Braves would always like a bullpen arm.

Halladay
07-26-2007, 03:14 AM
Here's another thought:

the Braves are reportedly unhappy with their 1B situation. If you culd trade Lyle Overbay to Atlanta for Rentiria (dressit up with throw ins however you like) and let Stairs play 1B the rest of the year while Lind was converte to iB for next year - would you do it?

I am almost certain I would.

no way we trade overbay hes one of the only good lefties we have hes key to this lineup and hes dirt cheap for the numbers he puts up.how about trading stairs to a contender which might happen?he'll be back here next year anyway...renteria(i've heard hes got a big contract as well) for stairs+chacin+b prospect...just throwin chacin and a prospect out there if its true that garland would be enough then i dont see why chacin and stairs wouldnt be enough.

edit:renteria makes $10 mil/year

WillRain
07-26-2007, 03:35 AM
Because Stairs is a role player gone this year, Chacin isn't remotely as good as the (admiteddly overvalued) Garland and because Rentiria can get more than that.

Yes, he makes a lot of money but we can afford it and it's not over market (that would be Furcal) - especially given the utter barren wasteland that is the Free Agent market for SS.

As for a good lefty bat, it is true we need more leftys but Lind can step in and hit pretty much exactly as good as overbay if not better over the next three years and we have NOTHING of substance at SS over that time period.

We need a good SS way more than we need more LH hitting.


that's not to say hat i wouldn't PREFER to get Rentiria without moving overbay - I certainly would. and if something like Chacin/Accardo/Stairs would make that happen then BAM Iwould grab it. I just don't think JS is going to be all that impressed with Chacin.

Halladay
07-26-2007, 03:47 AM
Because Stairs is a role player gone this year, Chacin isn't remotely as good as the (admiteddly overvalued) Garland and because Rentiria can get more than that.

Yes, he makes a lot of money but we can afford it and it's not over market (that would be Furcal) - especially given the utter barren wasteland that is the Free Agent market for SS.

As for a good lefty bat, it is true we need more leftys but Lind can step in and hit pretty much exactly as good as overbay if not better over the next three years and we have NOTHING of substance at SS over that time period.

We need a good SS way more than we need more LH hitting.


that's not to say hat i wouldn't PREFER to get Rentiria without moving overbay - I certainly would. and if something like Chacin/Accardo/Stairs would make that happen then BAM Iwould grab it. I just don't think JS is going to be all that impressed with Chacin.

i understand your argument,but remember what the market is for pitching right now refer to the linebrink deal.now,if chacin wouldnt be enough to get the deal done then throw aj burnett in the deal along with stairs and we'd agree to eat some of his salary.I just would be really against trading overbay hes going to be a very inportant bat the next few years for us.If atlanta would be willing to take a risk on burnett and they would also get a bat they desire.I dunno,i'd just try and avoid any deal involving overbay.

leroy
07-26-2007, 04:59 AM
I'd rather keep Chacin around and let him battle for the 5 spot next year, we need a lefty in the rotation. And for those you think he'll command something in a trade just remember he's basicly a 5 ERA thats been hurt for most of this season, i'm sure a lot of GM's think he's gonna need surgery soon too. Adding all that up and all we get a low level B prospect that has a 2% of contributing at the MLB level. I dont like just throwing him in a trade to even things out in a multiplayer trade either, he could turn things around in a year or two.

He should of never been expected to be our #3 starter this year, that was unfair becuase he's not that good. But I can see him contributing in a few years, he still has lots of service time.

We want impact players right? we have a better chance of trading for mlb ready big leaguers in the off season becuase right now a lot of teams think they have a shot.

2009mvp
07-26-2007, 11:45 AM
i understand your argument,but remember what the market is for pitching right now refer to the linebrink deal.now,if chacin wouldnt be enough to get the deal done then throw aj burnett in the deal along with stairs and we'd agree to eat some of his salary.I just would be really against trading overbay hes going to be a very inportant bat the next few years for us.If atlanta would be willing to take a risk on burnett and they would also get a bat they desire.I dunno,i'd just try and avoid any deal involving overbay.

You keep saying how overvalued the market for pitching is, yet you want to put Burnett in a deal for a SS who's one season in the AL was below average?? I'd rather have 20 starts from AJ than taking the risk on Renteria falling flat on his face as he did in Boston. He's proven inconsistent his entire career. He's by no means a great defensive SS, so assuming you get a .300 BA, .360 OBP, 11 HR, 70 RBI (hypothetical numbers, all above his career average), would you take that over your number 2 starter for virtually the same dollar figure??

con_artist
07-26-2007, 12:55 PM
Heres another SS name thats come up before but really caught my eye and seems to be easier attained than renteria... brendan harris. hes putting up great offensive numbers, he solid at defense and he would only cost us a moderately good pitcher since the d-rays have so many position players and need so many pitchers. Clearly they wouldn't do it for towers but couple him with chacin? or would they go for a reliever we have?

McJoe
07-26-2007, 12:59 PM
Heres another SS name thats come up before but really caught my eye and seems to be easier attained than renteria... brendan harris. hes putting up great offensive numbers, he solid at defense and he would only cost us a moderately good pitcher since the d-rays have so many position players and need so many pitchers. Clearly they wouldn't do it for towers but couple him with chacin? or would they go for a reliever we have?

finally...ive posted this kids name at least 5 times and no one has really commented on it

brendan harris would be awesome...hes a good hitter...hes good defensively...theres no room for him with 3 better prospects coming...perfect fit

con_artist
07-26-2007, 01:02 PM
yeah and the fact that hes only 26 doesnt hurt either.
my only concern is what it would take to get him. the d-rays need pitching and im not really prepared to give up litsch for him. however i wouldnt be opposed to dealing two of frasor, downs, towers or chacing to get him. but would they like that?

McJoe
07-26-2007, 01:04 PM
yeah and the fact that hes only 26 doesnt hurt either.
my only concern is what it would take to get him. the d-rays need pitching and im not really prepared to give up litsch for him. however i wouldnt be opposed to dealing two of frasor, downs, towers or chacing to get him. but would they like that?

i think it would be pen arms

maybe 2 of gronky/dejong/wolfe for him

con_artist
07-26-2007, 01:09 PM
i would do that in a heartbeat since we have so many quality arms there. hey that would even give us somewhere to put chacin when he gets back. harris would be our everyday ss and that would solve one of our nagging problems we'll need to adress in the offseason. i still think we need a better catcher, LF and possibly a back of the rotation starter (we have a surplus of decent pen arms to easily attain a C and LF).

Halladay
07-26-2007, 05:31 PM
brendan harris...havent heard that name in a while.what kind of numbers is he putting up in the minors?maybe towers+frasor would do it?the drays desperately need any pitching they can get and towers and frasor cost next to nothing and they probably wouldnt get much more then 2 average arms for a guy(harris)whos getting older and has no where to play.

Rochesta
07-28-2007, 02:15 PM
Towers just ripped on Gibbons following the loss last night and what he perceived to be his premature exit from the game, further confirming my belief that he will and should be traded before the deadline. I think there are going to be some NL teams, probably the NL West, that will be interested. We sent Shea to the Giants, so we might as well send Towers there too for another closer (they like to trade those away).

On a side note, Shea just signed a minor league deal with the Padres.

Twitchy
07-28-2007, 02:21 PM
brendan harris...havent heard that name in a while.what kind of numbers is he putting up in the minors?maybe towers+frasor would do it?the drays desperately need any pitching they can get and towers and frasor cost next to nothing and they probably wouldnt get much more then 2 average arms for a guy(harris)whos getting older and has no where to play.

He's putting up pretty good #'s for TB in the MAJORS. He's got a good bat but the issue is his defense. His ZR is lower than....Jeter. He'd definetly be an offensive upgrade, but I don't know if we could live with his D.

Halladay
07-28-2007, 03:47 PM
He's putting up pretty good #'s for TB in the MAJORS. He's got a good bat but the issue is his defense. His ZR is lower than....Jeter. He'd definetly be an offensive upgrade, but I don't know if we could live with his D.

i dunno...if his ZR isnt very good then it sounds like he'd be another mediocre shortstop to add to the list.SS is one position where we need defense first,the bat second problem is,there are almost no good options out there that i can see.

bomber0104
07-28-2007, 10:27 PM
Trade Glaus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rochesta
07-28-2007, 10:41 PM
Cantu just got traded to the Reds, where he will not play at 2b. It is believed to be a move by Cincinnati to add a trade chip for another deal. I think Dunn and Cantu will be packaged and sent somewhere, but I'd like to see what they want for Cantu. Sure, he hits only .207 right now but he's only 25. If the Reds want nothing for him, I say look into it. Many scouts still have him pegged as a future all star.

The Rays also picked up Wheeler from Houston, so my biggest fear has become true. The Rays are assembling a bullpen.

palewhiteboy
07-28-2007, 11:43 PM
i dunno...if his ZR isnt very good then it sounds like he'd be another mediocre shortstop to add to the list.SS is one position where we need defense first,the bat second problem is,there are almost no good options out there that i can see.


if its defense we need at SS then we have mcdonald.....we need more offense from there as well as some younger legs cause mcdonald is getting older

StayOnBoard
07-29-2007, 01:04 AM
Personally I feel the Jays should trade Glaus and perhaps AJ if the package is right. I still don't think AJ is a bad pitcher, although he has been injured far too often. He isn't a number 2 but I'd say he's a solid no 3 guy. Still if the right price came along it'd be hard to keep him.

I think Glaus will be very high in demand and I think he will get traded. The Jays aren't going 47-16 or whatever they need to have. I think they should trade for a young, future SS and/or a SP/RP to develop. I would love to see them get Chad Billingsley from the Dodgers, he has great potential to become a great SP.

Either way, the Jays really should think about being sellers, and listen to offers on almost everyone. Sign Rios to a long term deal, or trade him now since his value is very very high. Still, that being said if JP trades Rios Ill probably never watch the Jays again :)

Twitchy
07-29-2007, 09:38 AM
Cantu just got traded to the Reds, where he will not play at 2b. It is believed to be a move by Cincinnati to add a trade chip for another deal. I think Dunn and Cantu will be packaged and sent somewhere, but I'd like to see what they want for Cantu. Sure, he hits only .207 right now but he's only 25. If the Reds want nothing for him, I say look into it. Many scouts still have him pegged as a future all star.

The Rays also picked up Wheeler from Houston, so my biggest fear has become true. The Rays are assembling a bullpen.

I wouldn't worry too much about Wheeler, cause he's a FA at the seasons end. And if the Rays aren't going to pay Wheeler, then all they're getting are the draft picks...

But where'd you hear that about Cantu being trade-bait? I heard they were just gonna give him consistent playing time so he could be a RH "power bat" in the future. I know I shouldn't take what GM's say at face-value, I just hadn't read he was gonna be traded again...

Rochesta
07-29-2007, 12:27 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about Wheeler, cause he's a FA at the seasons end. And if the Rays aren't going to pay Wheeler, then all they're getting are the draft picks...

But where'd you hear that about Cantu being trade-bait? I heard they were just gonna give him consistent playing time so he could be a RH "power bat" in the future. I know I shouldn't take what GM's say at face-value, I just hadn't read he was gonna be traded again...

Red's forum, and I guess I shouldn't take anything they say at face value, but I do know that its unlikely he'll unseat Phillips at second. He might not be available today or tomorrow but I think he would be in the offseason.

And with the Rays, I'm always scared of them getting some pitching with their speed and offense, call it paranoia, but I want us to be the ones that break up the Red Sox/Yankees stronghold on the division, not them. They would have first dibs on Wheeler. I don't know how likely it is that he'll sign with them but it at least gives them a chance to grab him.

Twitchy
07-29-2007, 01:07 PM
He'd probably get something close to what Speier would get considering how he's pitched the last couple of years. I just can't see him re-signing with them unless it's cheaper than that. They'll probably end up getting some draft picks out of him tho...

As for Cantu, there's no way he replaces Phillips @ 2B. However, I was reading some Cinci article and the writer was saying how he disliked Gonzo's D. If Phillips is capable of playing SS (and I remember hearing last year he was moved round like Hill between 2B/SS), it's possible Phillips could go to SS with Cantu playing 2B. Cantu COULD play 3B, but he won't with Encarnacion there. And he COULD play 1B, but with Votto coming up he wouldn't be there either...

So like you said, a trade is probably coming. They aren't gonna trade Gonzo to let Phillips play SS JUST so Cantu can play 2B - otherwise I'd say make a trade for Gonzo, especially the way he's hitting (edit: Ok, he's cooled down a bit...but he'd still be an upgrade and @ only 5 mil per season a good upgrade). But I could see him going in a separate deal, maybe for SP or something. But it'd be in the offseason, where the Reds would call him up in Sept. and pray to God that he just goes on fire for a month so they can get some value out of him.

Rochesta
07-29-2007, 03:01 PM
^^ Yeah that's how I had it working out, so I think we can get in on him if we wanted. I'm hoping they didn't just get him to put the icing on a Dunn or Griffey blockbuster, and that he'll be around this offseason as an option.

As for the Rays, who knows what they're gonna do. They've pinched pennies for years now, and their attendance is starting to climb as I recall. They could become dangerous, but its probably a few years away.

WillRain
07-30-2007, 12:59 AM
Okay, how about this....

In LA:

Schmidt is out indefinately
Wolf just got sidelined for an indeterminate period
Lowe is banged up with hip pain
Penny has an abdominal muscle issue

and the Dodgers reportedly want relife pitching too.

so

Josh Towers + Jason Frasor + marginal AAA reliver (like Vermilyea or Gronk) 4 Wilson Betimit

Done and done.
;)

D-Train#35
07-30-2007, 01:02 AM
Okay, how about this....

In LA:

Schmidt is out indefinately
Wolf just got sidelined for an indeterminate period
Lowe is banged up with hip pain
Penny has an abdominal muscle issue

and the Dodgers reportedly want relife pitching too.

so

Josh Towers + Jason Frasor + marginal AAA reliver (like Vermilyea or Gronk) 4 Wilson Betimit

Done and done.
;)

Sounds reasonable.. I actually think that could get it done. Frasor isn't actually that bad of a reliever, he's had a 2 era this year, and a consistant 3. I think he's in low 4's right now but if he pitched a little more I think it would be in the 3's still.

Halladay
07-30-2007, 02:22 AM
[QUOTE=palewhiteboy;2679990]if its defense we need at SS then we have mcdonald.....we need more offense from there as well as some younger legs cause mcdonald is getting older[/QUOTE

i didnt say all we need is defense its just,we need D first and the bat second thats the problem though,there arent many good overall SS on the market

bomber0104
07-30-2007, 02:24 PM
it seemes that nothing is gonna happen

cynomatic
07-30-2007, 04:22 PM
it seemes that nothing is gonna happen

I think Towers is the only one who could be moved..but hey stranger things has happened

Halladay
07-30-2007, 05:13 PM
I think Towers is the only one who could be moved..but hey stranger things has happened

hes definitely the strongest possibility but the phillies out of the running i dont see a suitor.the only other player i see that we will move is stairs and that would probably be a last minute deal.

JaysFan87
07-30-2007, 07:01 PM
just a thought. I always liked Luis Castillo from the twins and he just got traded to the mets for two prospects. but anyways he can become a free agent after this season, i think he would look great in the second spot in the line-up

leroy
07-30-2007, 08:08 PM
Glaus could be next slugger on the block:
Consider two hitters with a similar number of at-bats:

Hitter A is batting .297 with 13 homers and 49 RBIs.
Hitter B is batting .268 with 15 homers and 48 RBIs.

Pretty comparable, no? Hitter A is first baseman Mark Teixeira, who is on the verge of getting traded from the Rangers to the Braves.

Hitter B is Blue Jays third baseman Troy Glaus, who could be moved if the Jays receive the right offer.

Teixeira is a better hitter than Glaus, and at 27, almost four years younger. But Glaus certainly would make sense for the Angels as an alternative to Teixeira, and he also fits for other clubs.

The one advantage Glaus has over Teixeira is post-season experience: In 82 career plate appearances, Glaus boasts a whopping 1.246 on-base/slugging percentage in the playoffs.

The Yankees and Rangers could use him at first base. The Angels and Astros could use him at third. And those are just some of the possibilities.

The Jays' stance on Glaus is that they're willing to listen to offers, but would trade him only for a substantial return.

It stands to reason that the interest in him should intensify now that Teixeira is about to go off the market.

A team could control Glaus through at least next season; Glaus is earning $10.75 million this season and signed for $12.75 million in 2008 with an $11.25 million player option for '09.

Glaus possesses a full no-trade clause, but almost certainly would waive it for the Angels and consider waiving it for other clubs.

As a player traded during the middle of a multi-year contract, he would gain the right to demand a trade at the end of the season.

It's doubtful, however, that he would exercise that right so soon after approving a trade. He did not exercise it after getting dealt to the Blue Jays.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7072074

Halladay
07-30-2007, 08:24 PM
Glaus could be next slugger on the block:
Consider two hitters with a similar number of at-bats:

Hitter A is batting .297 with 13 homers and 49 RBIs.
Hitter B is batting .268 with 15 homers and 48 RBIs.

Pretty comparable, no? Hitter A is first baseman Mark Teixeira, who is on the verge of getting traded from the Rangers to the Braves.

Hitter B is Blue Jays third baseman Troy Glaus, who could be moved if the Jays receive the right offer.

Teixeira is a better hitter than Glaus, and at 27, almost four years younger. But Glaus certainly would make sense for the Angels as an alternative to Teixeira, and he also fits for other clubs.

The one advantage Glaus has over Teixeira is post-season experience: In 82 career plate appearances, Glaus boasts a whopping 1.246 on-base/slugging percentage in the playoffs.

The Yankees and Rangers could use him at first base. The Angels and Astros could use him at third. And those are just some of the possibilities.

The Jays' stance on Glaus is that they're willing to listen to offers, but would trade him only for a substantial return.

It stands to reason that the interest in him should intensify now that Teixeira is about to go off the market.

A team could control Glaus through at least next season; Glaus is earning $10.75 million this season and signed for $12.75 million in 2008 with an $11.25 million player option for '09.

Glaus possesses a full no-trade clause, but almost certainly would waive it for the Angels and consider waiving it for other clubs.


As a player traded during the middle of a multi-year contract, he would gain the right to demand a trade at the end of the season.

It's doubtful, however, that he would exercise that right so soon after approving a trade. He did not exercise it after getting dealt to the Blue Jays.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7072074

exactly what we've been saying.its gotta be a overwhelming offer from someone to get glaus.

leroy
07-30-2007, 08:32 PM
exactly what we've been saying.its gotta be a overwhelming offer from someone to get glaus.

Agreed

jaysman
07-31-2007, 03:55 PM
this thread is useless. jp is way too ultraconservative to make any deal. fire him and gibby now!!!!!!!!

jaysman
07-31-2007, 03:56 PM
Okay, how about this....

In LA:

Schmidt is out indefinately
Wolf just got sidelined for an indeterminate period
Lowe is banged up with hip pain
Penny has an abdominal muscle issue

and the Dodgers reportedly want relife pitching too.

so

Josh Towers + Jason Frasor + marginal AAA reliver (like Vermilyea or Gronk) 4 Wilson Betimit

Done and done.
;)


awful trade!!! stupis stupid stupid trade.

Halladay
07-31-2007, 04:49 PM
betemit went to the yanks for proctor...are you telling me we couldnt offer up a better deal?WTF JP

McJoe
08-02-2007, 04:26 PM
halladay to the orioles for bedard and loewen +...wat do u think...a random idea that just popped in my head

then free to trade burnett to the braves for renteria

rotation
Bedard
Marcum
McGowan
Loewen
Litsch

order:
Wells
Renteria
Rios
Glaus
Overbay
Thomas
Hill
Thigpen
Johnson

prolly not possible and prolly wouldnt even trade doc myself but wat would u think if the orioles came to u with that trade idea

WillRain
08-02-2007, 06:30 PM
awful trade!!! stupis stupid stupid trade.

how so?

Care to elaborate?

I assure you i have a good case for it if you can try one against it.

Halladay
08-02-2007, 06:37 PM
halladay to the orioles for bedard and loewen +...wat do u think...a random idea that just popped in my head

then free to trade burnett to the braves for renteria

rotation
Bedard
Marcum
McGowan
Loewen
Litsch

order:
Wells
Renteria
Rios
Glaus
Overbay
Thomas
Hill
Thigpen
Johnson

prolly not possible and prolly wouldnt even trade doc myself but wat would u think if the orioles came to u with that trade idea

:speechless::mad:

Rochesta
08-02-2007, 09:57 PM
^^ so he can rock us? I woudn't trade Halladay within the AL East.

2009mvp
08-02-2007, 10:09 PM
Why would anyone trade Doc?? IMO we kind of take it for granted that we've got one of the top-5 pitchers in baseball at a contract that is a discount for what he gives you. I guess Bedard & Loewen would be enticing, but I say we keep Doc a Jay for life. Plus, the only way Bedard leaves via trade is if he makes it clear he doesn't want to resign, in which case his trade value would fall to something way lesser than Doc in return.

McJoe
08-02-2007, 10:25 PM
hey it was a random idea that popped in my head so i shared it with everyone...as i said in the post...i dont think i would trade doc even for 2 possible top of the rotation canadians but it would be really really really hard to walk away from that PR/potential opportunity...especially if loewen bounces back in any way from that injury

cynomatic
08-02-2007, 11:59 PM
If Doc was ever traded..and I really doubt he would be ...it wouldnt be to a team in the AL east ..even if the Jays were to get two canadian born pitchers in return

frostilicus
08-03-2007, 12:18 AM
If Doc ever gets traded I might have to start cheering for another team.

JaysFan87
08-03-2007, 12:47 AM
doc is not going anywhere, i would hope.....

frostilicus
08-03-2007, 01:05 AM
What do you guys think about shipping some of our bullpen arms to Tampa Bay for Carl Crawford? Tampa considered shopping him last off season and they are in the process of trying to strengthen the weakest bullpen in the league.

We're going to have a surplus of bullpen arms next season and seeing that we really only use three of them on a regular basis it would seem that some of these guys are going to be expendable. Perhaps Accardo and Frasor and a couple of the guys down in AAA would git r done? With B.J.'s expected return next season I don't think the bullpen would suffer too much of a blow and we'd be getting back a left handed bat with speed and pop who would look great setting the table for the other guys in our lineup.

Does that seem somewhat reasonable for both sides or have I completely overvalued our guys?

boms-4
08-03-2007, 02:27 AM
i like that trade. I think Crawford is a great player and has great speed something this Jays team does not have. The Rays are looking at strengthing there bullipen like you said. So really i think this trade would help both teams

boms-4
08-03-2007, 02:33 AM
lot of teams do like trading within divisions so i dont no if they would do this to help a division rivairl

Rochesta
08-03-2007, 02:34 AM
Would also free us up to move both Lind and Johnson for ss talent.

McJoe
08-03-2007, 09:43 AM
well if ur trying to trade for crawford ud prolly have to throw in one or both of those last 2 guys rochesta...and then it would be like all of our bullpen arms...they may want to move him but they will wait for a good deal...IMO to get crawford it would cost at the very least...Lind, Snider, League, Janssen, Litsch...hes the kind of guy that gets traded for entire rosters but in fact...u could prolly find a way to get snider out by using one of M&M

lastprodigy
08-03-2007, 12:07 PM
Yes trade for Crawford, then trade Wells to the leafs for Coliacovo. Then we can have 2/3 CARLOS outfield! :D

Halladay
08-03-2007, 07:52 PM
if we tried to get crawford then so would the yanks ans redsox-no doubt in my mind.They'd throw 15$mil/a season at him if they could...hes one of my favorite players and has been for years.He does everything and if he ever got to play with some actual good bats around him he'd be dynamite.Also the fact that we'd have Crawford,Wells,and Rios in the outfield:drool:

McJoe
08-07-2007, 12:31 PM
^^^ well if we r offering a trade we can offer something that neither the sox nor the yanks can offer in return...the mostoverrated underachieving pitcher in the league cause he has potential

frostilicus
08-07-2007, 02:29 PM
If you're talking about A.J. Burnett then that's not going to work. The Devil Rays want cheap, young players that they can control for many years; not an injury prone starting pitcher with a bloated contract. If Crawford gets traded, it will be for young, major league ready talent. Tampa needs bullpen help badly and we seem to have an abundance of it.

donkey66
08-07-2007, 08:55 PM
I think this message board should trade Temper to the Yank board. Any poster praying for a productive player to fail should likely be a fan of another team........afterall, teams always ship clubhouse cancers out of town.
:)

WillRain
08-07-2007, 09:43 PM
I wonder if there's another person in a position to make decisions out there on another team who is impressed enough with litsch to consider him a valuable aquisition?

Could we get a good SS for him? could we build a package around him for a difference maker like Crawford? Or do other GM's see what we see in the secondaries and decline?

What if it was a salary dump? Like Rentiria for instance?

frostilicus
08-07-2007, 09:50 PM
I think Litsch could be used a piece in a bigger package but as the central part of a trade I don't think he would have much value.

Twitchy
08-07-2007, 09:54 PM
There's a guy I'm looking at - J.J. Furmaniak. SS for Oakland. He's old, yes. I can't find his minor league #'s. He's playing 3B cause Chavez is out, but he can play SS. I wouldn't mind taking a shot at him...I can't find his minor league #'s but I heard he was doing ok this year.

Edit: Found them now. Career 760 OPS in the minors, 831 this year in AAA...he's 28, but I'd take a chance on him...

johnny_was
08-07-2007, 09:57 PM
We're going into an offseason in which Kenny Rogers may well prove to be the best SP arm available if Carlos Zambrano and Schill resign with their respective clubs. Wrap your heads around that.

This winter, under the right circumstances, I'd be willing to move Marcum and have Janssen take his place in the rotation, assuming that BJ will pitch again in '08. This is a very good time to be sitting on semi-proven young arms.

WillRain
08-07-2007, 10:18 PM
On another thought....

I'm just gonna go ahaed and say this....I know that JP would never make this particular deal but....

Given the absolute dreath of available talent at SS...
And given his continually lowering his value...
and given the unlikelyhood that a player has his career year at 25....

I suggest that we could do worse that trying to reaquire Felipe Lopez

Mind you, I've long since lost my former enthusiasum for his future, but all you have to do is go to ESPN, on the sortable stats and look at all the shortstops (or second basemen for that matter) and see how few good ones are remotely available.

Tejada - assumes any credibility to the idea they entertained an offer from the White Sox, and noting the unlikelyhood he'd be dealt within the division. And the substantial cost in terms of players.
Rentiria - maybe, if the Braves want to dump salary to sign Jones
Harris - who reportedly has an awful glove
Cabrera - if the Angels go with youth

That's IT if you want a +.700 OPS - after that it's

Garciaparra - I'll bet they would like to be shed of him by now...but can he still play SS?
Ekstien
Wilson - WAY overpaid
Lopez - and to be clear, I don't know if he's available...but with Belliard impressing and Guzman coming back...
Vizquel - ancint
Uribe - almost down to Mendoza line
Izturus - under .600 now.

Second baseman instead?

Kent - can you get him out of SoCal? Will they pick up the option? No and yes.
Grudzy - old but still kickin it
DeRosa - could you get the Cubs to give him up?
Matsui - not sure what you are gonna get but it would have to be better than what he did in NY
Iguchi - is this a down year or the start of a decline?
Castillo - singles hitter
Durham - done?
Giles - off the cliff...and to think I wanted this guy last winter


(I didn't include Betimit because the Yanks are smart enough to keep him close)

Among all those guys, the only non RH hitters are Betimit, Lopez, Izturus, Vizquel, Matsui, Castillo, and Durham.

So....assuming Kent's option is picked up and the Yanks are smart enough to hang on to Betimit, the only guys on here worth looking at are, IMO...

Tejada - gonna cost you BIG probably...and moreso because he's in our division.
Rentiria - gonna cost you BIG probably
Cabrera - also not cheap
Lopez - maybe Bowden has gotten fickle. Too bad we can't trade Towers and Frasor for him.
Garciaparra - IF the scouts think he can still play SS (or even 2B) and stay healthy...

Matsui - much needed speed, and maybe Litsch would get him
DeRosa - no idea that he's available
Iguchi - pray this was just an abberational year.

EDIT: Oh, forgot the Japanese guy Nioka...I'm down with chasing him too...

WillRain
08-07-2007, 11:18 PM
AAA guys who's name might come up....

D'Angelo Jimmenez - pounds AAA pitching, dissapears in mjors...why?

Brent Lillibridge - Has an impresive record in the minors but with the emergence of Escobar, he could possibly be available? or Make Kelly johnson available? worth asking about.

Clint Barmes - his trade value ought to be about as low as it can get right now. If they think he has a future it makes it less likely they will retain Matsui.

Ronny Cedeno - Another guy who's done all he can do at AAA, he's apparently been passed by Fontenot....either he should be available or he should be pushing Derosa out of town. That said, the PCL is a hitter's league

Chin-Lung Hu - Dodgers' Tiawanese kid with impressive AAA stats (in a hitters league)..blocked in LA

Juaquin Arias - hurt this season but blocked in Texas

Mike Avilas - 27 year old in Royal system...looks to good to still be in AAA in THAT organization...so what's wrong with him?

Jason Furmaniak - the guy Twitchy mentioned...a PCL illusion?

Brandon Wood - I could put up with him at SS if there was a way to get him at all, but i don't see it.

============

Except for Wood, there's no obvious savior here...

Twitchy
08-07-2007, 11:21 PM
Yeah it looks like a PCL illusion. He did well in PCL beforehand. But when he was in the IL he was still 700+....but yeah...probably not worth it :(.

donkey66
08-08-2007, 12:11 PM
It's too bad Sergio Santos can't field his position better. (17 errors at double A). He also sports a .253 average, but his 17 hr's and .814 ops would look nice at ss next year. Any chance he could make the move to second?

donkey66
08-08-2007, 12:26 PM
On an interesting note, both Santos and Wood have very similar numbers this year. Averages both sub-par (Santos .253, Wood .265) ; OPS (Santos .814, Wood .831); HR's similar (Santos 17, Wood 19) and both sported 17 errors defensively, though Wood played 3rd base. Perhaps giving Santos a shot is an option over a trade, though I have not heard anything from the Jays that suggests Santos is in their plans.

Devo
08-08-2007, 11:38 PM
Call me crazy, but I would let Johnny Mac play out the year (in a platoon?) next year. His D is amazing, and we would have to give up too much to get too little in return.

frostilicus
08-08-2007, 11:51 PM
I wouldn't call you crazy. If the best we can do at SS is a marginal upgrade over J-Mac, we may as well just use J-Mac himself. He probably saves more runs a game than his replacement would produce. The pitching staff must love the guy.

Oilslick18
08-10-2007, 01:34 AM
I don't know if this has already been mentioned (cuz I don't feel like scrolling through 14 pages)...but if we offered:

Chacin
Lind
Accardo
Purcey

would that be enough to get:

Tejada or Young or Renteria or Crawford.

You have to give up to get and with BJ coming back we can use Jannsen as a set-up man and pray that League turns the corner! Our bullpen wouldn't suffer cuz we basically would be switching Accardo for Ryan. All those teams desire young cheap pitchers and most of them have weak bullpens.

With any of those SS we will be adding some punch to the offense and if we could get Crawford our outfield would be phenomenol (plus we'd be adding some speed on the base paths which would be nice!!)

Our SP would still be great: Halladay, Marcum, McGowan, Burnett. Litsch
and our lineup wouldn't have a offensive hole (except for at SS if we get Crawford).

WillRain
08-10-2007, 01:45 AM
I normally hesistate to include Lind but obviously in the Crawford deal he's a spare here (OTOH, the only reason for them to trade Craword is an excess of outfielders - they could maybe make him their long term 1B easy enough though) and in the SS deals you have to recoginize there are more LF options out there than SS.

Still, I doubt Young can be had period.


If I could trade that crowd for Rentiria and still have enough money to go after Dunn, that would be ideal - but I'm not sure that wouldn't break the budget. Maybe Abreu or Burrell....can't remember right now if Abreu is a lefty and we MUST get a middle of the order LH bat.

Rochesta
08-10-2007, 02:13 AM
^^ Abreau is a lefty, but we'll probably wind up putting all of our eggs in the Overbay basket as far as a middle lefty bat is concerned. Unless Lind really, really breaks out I don't see us improving there. Like you said, anybody willing to trade a good LFer doesn't want one in return and Dunn likely doesn't want to play in Toronto, being a Texan with options in that area. Abreau would be interesting but he's a former Yankee, so expect bloated interest and value placed on him from teams around the league.

WillRain
08-10-2007, 02:30 PM
Ben Maller quotes the LA Times as saying the Dodgers would still like to add pitching depth. While they no longer have Betimit (damnit) I still say that sending them Towers, even if it's for "future considerations" wouldn't hurt anything, and seeing what they would give for a package of him and Frasor (before Gibbons completely forgets the man's name) would be worth investigation...

They have a SS at AAA named Chin-Hung Lu who would be very interesting, and while I'd be stunned if they have given up on LaRoche it couldn't hurt to ask. Even if you had to add to the package.

But apart from a real score, I think we could do worse that giving them Towers for Larry Bigbe. Especially given Johnson's continued struggles vs RHP.
The guy can hit major league pitching and they have way more OF depth among young players than to need to keep hm around.

WillRain
08-10-2007, 03:38 PM
How about this one?

The Yanks seem to dispair that johnny Damon is a CF anymore, the jays need a LH hitter and a good lead off hitter and a solid LF (assuming johnson has peaked as most of us suspect)

The Yanks might be losing A-Rod if he opts out (likely) and even if he stays they have a problem with 1B.

Sooooooooooooooo..............

Johnny Damon + Wilson Betimit
4
Troy Glaus + Jason Frasor (throw in if necessary)

The Salaries are virtually a wash, and Betimit can replace Troy.

Of course, maybe the yanks realize that Betimit's stats are almost the same as Glaus' but they tend to like the splashy move for the name veteran.


Betimit is, though switch, esentially a lefty hitter, so you can line em up like this:

Damon - LF
Hill - 2B
Rios - RF
Thomas - DH (maybe if he has his early season slump you could flip 4 and 6)
Betimit - 3B
Wells - CF
Overbay - 1B
Thigpen - C
McDonald - SS

And you still have the option of attempting to upgrade SS if you want...maybe for a guy like Rentira that you'd rather have hitting second.

I, for one, think Damon>Hill>Rios is a top of the order that could score some runs without wating on the big homer....

Maybe not the BEST way to upgrade (going out and signing Dunn or Abreu or trading for Burrell might be more direct) but worth thinking about...

lastprodigy
08-10-2007, 05:13 PM
Would be nice but I doubt the Jays trade w/ Yankees

johnny_was
08-10-2007, 08:20 PM
and it would open a hole for the yankees to sign a. jones and torii hunter in the offseason.

WillRain
08-10-2007, 09:58 PM
Figure they will prob do that anyway...they'll find a taker for Damon.

johnny_was
08-10-2007, 10:14 PM
I would just as soon pay cash money for a FA Bobby Abreu as my LF for next season assuming the Yankees don't pick up his option. He's been healthier than Damon, they're the same age, and you wouldn't have to give anything up.

WillRain
08-10-2007, 10:57 PM
True...but at what price?

In my proposal, you are getting glaus-like offense from a cheap player and spending glaus' money on Damon.....to Sign Abreu we are just ladeling anouther 13-15 mil on top of what we are already oblidged to.

johnny_was
08-10-2007, 11:21 PM
Strategically, I'd rather pay cash to solve a weakness than hand over players who'd help a hated divisional rival, especially one that might well be A-Rod-less in '08. And why would you pay so much for Betemit, who isn't going to be anything more than a bench player in NY?

Betemit in TO at SS with J-Mac covering for his D and spelling him time to time made good sense at the trade deadline. But recent scuffles and all, Glaus' bat is not replaced by Betemit's.

WillRain
08-11-2007, 12:26 AM
Paying so much for Betimit?

Damon = Glaus
Frasor = Betimit

how is that paying a lot?

as for this....

Betemit, who isn't going to be anything more than a bench player in NY?

Betemit in TO at SS with J-Mac covering for his D and spelling him time to time made good sense at the trade deadline. But recent scuffles and all, Glaus' bat is not replaced by Betemit's.

BA - OBP - SLG - OPS w/RO - OPS w/RSP - RC27 - IsoP


Glaus .247 - .344 - .447 - .791 - .817 - .655 - 5.29 - .201
Betimit .238 - .359 - .477 - .836 - .983 - .923 - 6.27 - .238

Betimit's Isolated slugging is second in the Majors only to A-Rod (who has an insane .329 figure)

Pro-rate Betimit to the same # of AB as Mike Lowell, for instance, and he projects to 26 HR and 76 RBI

LA's idiotic mismangament of him aside, he's a better hitter than Glaus this year, and figures to get better, Glaus is very likely to decline off his career numbers.

I LIKE Troy - the only reason I'd move him is the desperate need for more R/L balance - but over the next five years, given a choice I'd take WB in a heartbeat.

And if you want to argue Glaus is down off his career OPS, I'd agree...but I'd point out that Glaus has declined slightly each of the last three years in OPS and you can provide no proof that will not continue, whereas Betimit, apart from his first turn around the league as a Dodger, has posted the same sort of OPS as he is now for most of the last three seasons.

Oh, and though it means nothing in terms of overall skill (or very little)...

since the all star break -


Glaus .191 .255 .351 .606
Betimit .359 .432 .564 .996


I think I've got a pretty strong case.
:eyebrow:

Halladay
08-11-2007, 12:47 AM
i've suggested damon in the past and theres no doubt in my mind the yankees would deal him,problem is,his contract is massive(which is expected)he makes 13$mil/year i think,its around that price anyway.If they yankees would eat some of that $$ which they probably would,damon would be a very nice addition.A lefty leadoff man,power,great speed,can play D but has no arm...hes been hurt and struggling but hes too good a hitter to be hitting .260.He brings alot to the table but his salary is an issue.

Halladay
08-11-2007, 12:49 AM
I agree willrain betemit would've been a very nice addition and wouldnt have cost us a whole lot.I was all over JP for not getting him he would've been a very nice addition for a small price.

johnny_was
08-11-2007, 01:32 PM
Paying so much for Betimit?

Damon = Glaus
Frasor = Betimit

how is that paying a lot?

as for this....

BA - OBP - SLG - OPS w/RO - OPS w/RSP - RC27 - IsoP


Glaus .247 - .344 - .447 - .791 - .817 - .655 - 5.29 - .201
Betimit .238 - .359 - .477 - .836 - .983 - .923 - 6.27 - .238

Betimit's Isolated slugging is second in the Majors only to A-Rod (who has an insane .329 figure)

Pro-rate Betimit to the same # of AB as Mike Lowell, for instance, and he projects to 26 HR and 76 RBI

LA's idiotic mismangament of him aside, he's a better hitter than Glaus this year, and figures to get better, Glaus is very likely to decline off his career numbers.

I LIKE Troy - the only reason I'd move him is the desperate need for more R/L balance - but over the next five years, given a choice I'd take WB in a heartbeat.

And if you want to argue Glaus is down off his career OPS, I'd agree...but I'd point out that Glaus has declined slightly each of the last three years in OPS and you can provide no proof that will not continue, whereas Betimit, apart from his first turn around the league as a Dodger, has posted the same sort of OPS as he is now for most of the last three seasons.

Oh, and though it means nothing in terms of overall skill (or very little)...

since the all star break -


Glaus .191 .255 .351 .606
Betimit .359 .432 .564 .996


I think I've got a pretty strong case.
:eyebrow:


There's really no defense for Glaus' 2007 production, which has been cruddy by all measures availble, but he is a known commodity and has put up a consistent line through his career whereas Betemit has never had a 400 AB season. It's totally speculative, but does Betemit's line hold up if he plays every day? I don't know. I would certainly have taken that chance had be been available to play SS for us.

Deciding if you really want to move Glaus depends on whether you think he's in terminal decline (and if his dropoff will be pronounced throught the duration of this contract) or if he's playing through injuries now and can rebound in '08. I think his track record of 5 30+ HR seasons and career OPS of 119 earn him a more little patience. He's only 30 and there's reason to believe he can put up productive seasons over the final two years of his contract. At 32, feel free to bid him farewell, OR, see if he'd be interested in staying on as our post-Thomas DH. A team lacking speed is one thing; a team lacking speed and power is quite another. I would want to be damn certain that I was making the team better if I moved him, especially since there's no 3b help in the system on the horizon.

Regardless of one's feelings on Troy Glaus, I would be adamantly against doing a trade with the Yankees that would allow them to both spin their worst OF when there's a bumper FA crop available this offseason and solve a corner IF hole--be it at 3b if A-Rod departs or by moving Glaus to 1b if A-Rod stays. That, to me, is the worst part of the deal in the final tally.

On the imperative of adding LH bats for next year, I'd be looking for a FA LF to replace Rusty (Abreu, Geoff Jenkins, even L. Gonzalez, maybe groan-inducers like Aaron Guiel, Trot Nixon, or longshot Adam Dunn) and at SS (make it be Nioka...)

On a related note, what's wrong with Adam Lind?

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Adam%20Lind&pos=OF&sid=t552&t=p_pbp&pid=452252

johnny_was
08-11-2007, 01:33 PM
I think at this point in his career, Johnny Damon should probably be moved to DH if you're to squeeze much out of him.

WillRain
08-11-2007, 02:05 PM
Deciding if you really want to move Glaus depends on whether you think he's in terminal decline (and if his dropoff will be pronounced throught the duration of this contract) or if he's playing through injuries now and can rebound in '08. I think his track record of 5 30+ HR seasons and career OPS of 119 earn him a more little patience. He's only 30 and there's reason to believe he can put up productive seasons over the final two years of his contract. At 32, feel free to bid him farewell, OR, see if he'd be interested in staying on as our post-Thomas DH. A team lacking speed is one thing; a team lacking speed and power is quite another. I would want to be damn certain that I was making the team better if I moved him, especially since there's no 3b help in the system on the horizon.

I think barring injury Glaus will be a pretty good investment as a power hitter over the next two seasons.

Again, my prime motivation here is bringing left handed power to the lineup. I love Lind, but he doesn't appear to be a guy who's going to chalange for 30 HR anytime soon.

All thinkgs being equal, I'd love to see Thomas spun into Griffey through some contrevience. No offense to Big Frank either but he and glaus duplicate each other too closely, IMO. But as I look around andspeculate, I'm speculating about possibilities for each of them, and dealing glaus in a situation where you can add LH power is at least worth thinking about.

Now, to be perfectly clear - IF Teddy says to JP "Spend what you need to spend, I'll make more!" then YEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSS I'd much rather just sign dunn or Abreu as trade anyone we now have.


That would be a slam dunk.

I just don't know that we have the bucks to add that much to the payroll.

Also, there's a Japanese OF who seemingly hits for power and hits LH named Fukudome.....I'd be fine with sigining both him and Nioka.

I intend here only to offer possibilities for consideration, not a "this is the only thing we can do" decleration.

WillRain
08-16-2007, 02:36 AM
Arizona DFA'ed Byung-Hyun Kim after less than three innings. Maybe the magic os gone but i wouldn't mind addng him on a minor league deal and seeing if Arny can figure out his issues. Heck of a lot better gamble than mark Redman, thugh that ain't saying much.

They cut Joe Kennedy too, who also enjoys the distinction of being a better risk than Redman.

Rochesta
08-16-2007, 03:03 AM
^^ Kennedy would be a much better option than Redman, there's no doubt about that.

T.O. Fan
08-17-2007, 05:51 PM
I would still like to see the Jays trade for Erik Bedard. And I still believe that Adam Lind, Jesse Litsch and Brandon League may be enough to get it done this winter.

Twitchy
08-17-2007, 06:01 PM
I would still like to see the Jays trade for Erik Bedard. And I still believe that Adam Lind, Jesse Litsch and Brandon League may be enough to get it done this winter.

Think of what you'd want in return for Halladay. Except a relatively inexpensive version of Halladay. That's what they'd want for Bedard. There is no way Litsch, League & Lind will get it done. Marcum OR McGowan would be a requirement in any deal for Bedard.

Rochesta
08-17-2007, 07:42 PM
We should wait it out until Bedard is a FA. Exit Burnett (by then), enter Bedard.

RoyHalladay#32
08-18-2007, 12:50 AM
Think of what you'd want in return for Halladay. Except a relatively inexpensive version of Halladay. That's what they'd want for Bedard. There is no way Litsch, League & Lind will get it done. Marcum OR McGowan would be a requirement in any deal for Bedard.

The only way we get Bedard is if we package Burnett and Rios together!

Rochesta
08-18-2007, 01:53 AM
Wouldn't Bedard and Bay become available at the same time? That would be a big Canadian dump on the AL East.

frostilicus
08-18-2007, 02:18 AM
^^ Both are FA in 2010... Jeff Francis too if his 2011 team option is declined.

Rochesta
08-18-2007, 02:21 AM
^^ Ballin', we better free up some $$$.

Twitchy
08-18-2007, 08:30 AM
The only way we get Bedard is if we package Burnett and Rios together!

...

No.

The Orioles would want CHEAP replacements. Not a guy who COULD opt out sooner then the guy they're trading becomes a FA (Burnett in 2008, Bedard in 2009 or 2010?). Burnett costs 12 mil, while Bedard costs less...they wouldn't want Burnett. Rios would be a guy they COULD trade straight up assuming he plays in CF. But I wouldn't trade Rios.

johnny_was
08-18-2007, 09:20 AM
There are some pretty crazy things being said in here...

re: Bedard; he's either a giant weirdo, or he hates BAL and can't wait to blow town. has rebuffed every one of their attempts to sign him to a contract extension

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2978076

T.O. Fan
08-18-2007, 10:46 AM
I don't think he's in Halladay's class quite yet. And if the Jays could get three young, talented, cheap, major league ready players for Halladay and they knew he was going to walk when he becomes a FA......I would probably do it.

As far as Marcum or McGowan are concerned, if that's what it takes, forget it. I'd rather wait till 2010.

Twitchy
08-18-2007, 11:01 AM
I didn't mean to suggest that he was in Halladay's class. What I mean by that is you gotta think of it from their POV. He's their best pitcher, arguably one of the top LH starters, if not one of the top starters in the AL this year. Leads the majors in a ton of categories, especially strikeouts (and by a significant margin). He's still relatively cheap...they'd get elite prospects for him. Think Snider, not Lind. Think McGowan/Marcum, not Litsch.

Oilslick18
08-18-2007, 12:07 PM
^^ Think NO WAY until either his contract year when they don't want to lose him for nothing or his UFA year! A team who struggles with pitching doesn't give up a cheap ace.

Rochesta
08-18-2007, 12:12 PM
There are some pretty crazy things being said in here...

re: Bedard; he's either a giant weirdo, or he hates BAL and can't wait to blow town. has rebuffed every one of their attempts to sign him to a contract extension

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2978076

I would think the latter. Baltimore is funny, because they spend decent money every year but are still bottom dwellers consistently. They seem to have good young talent and really no gaping holes 1-9 if you look closely. Yet they still never cross .500. Its almost a cursed franchise right now.

WillRain
08-18-2007, 01:45 PM
Sounds a lot like Steve Carlton.

This is what I thought was funny....



Bedard is at times rude, standoffish and disinterested, and perversely takes pride in his attitude. "Stupid question, next," is a frequent answer from the 28-year-old.
.....
"He's very, very private," O's manager Dave Trembley says. "He's not a [bad] guy. He just doesn't like people asking him obvious, stupid questions."

Just wait till he runs into Richard Griffin.....

WillRain
08-19-2007, 04:28 AM
There's a lot of senitment and not a lot of hard stats in this one but...

from Rotoworld:



Asdrubal Cabrera delivered his first big-league homer -- a three-run shot off Jason Hammel -- and doubled Saturday against the Rays.

Josh Barfield's chances of getting back into the lineup for Sunday's game just disappeared. Cabrera had been 3-for-15 since being called up on Aug. 7. Indians manager Eric Wedge seems willing to give him a chance to win the starting job at second base, so he's worth considering in AL-only leagues.

IF we don't pick up anything that we can bank on improving our team this winter - a Rentiria or Cabrera or Kent or even Matsui...
and IF the "Hillto SS" thing is locked in regardless...
and if the Indians are going to give up on Barfield would it be such a bad idea to make a minor deal for him - say Adams and a relief pitcher - and gamble that he will bloom at 2B for us?

I know, the sentiment of bringing in Jessie's Kid probably makes him look better to me than he is.....but if I'm gonna move Hill over and hand 2B to a question mark, I'd rather that question mark be Barfield as Adams...

T.O. Fan
08-20-2007, 01:33 PM
Do you think the Jays should try to sign Geoff Jenkins in the off season (if his club option is declined by the Brewers)? Then maybe they could put a package together with Johnson and a pitcher for a SS. Just a thought.

johnny_was
08-20-2007, 01:56 PM
Do you think the Jays should try to sign Geoff Jenkins in the off season (if his club option is declined by the Brewers)? Then maybe they could put a package together with Johnson and a pitcher for a SS. Just a thought.

Yes, I definitely do; we have mentioned his name before, maybe even in this thread, as a name of potential LHBs to go after. His club option, $9 million with a $500,000 buyout, will most likely be declined b/c of cost and overcrowding in the Brew Crew OF.

A LH power bat is exactly what we need to give balance to the lineup and LF is exactly the place to put it. You could platoon him with Sparky, who also gets ABs as a backup OF. Unless JP wants to go out and sign Fukudome or Abreu instead, I'd take Jenkins in '08.

Rochesta
08-20-2007, 03:47 PM
Where do we put Abreau if he's the choice? The Yanks have him 3rd, which I don't think is an option with Rios being a better RBI man overall. The way I see it, the options are second, fifth, or leadoff. At leadoff:

Abreu
Hill
Rios
Thomas
Wells
Overbay
Glaus
Thigpen/Zaun
ss (unfortunately probably Mac)

He adds a lefty bat but its still difficult to stagger lefty-righty effectively if he leads off. From 2-6 is righty in this lineup. I like Abreu leading off because of his OBP (.409 career), decent speed, and smart play on the basepaths. I also like Thomas in the 4th hole because of his power AND OBP. Following Thomas, there are 3 RBI men in Wells, Obay and Glaus. So he would be on base for good hitters. I'll try now to ssandwich Abreu somewhere in the middle:

Wells
Overbay
Rios
Thomas
Abreu
Glaus
Hill
Thig/Zaun
ss

This lineup looks better to me after having written them out, but I still think Abreu's superb OBP wouldn't be as utilized there. Placing him second...

Wells
Abreu
Rios
Thomas
Overbay
Glaus
Hill
Thig/Zaun
ss

... actually looks like a pretty intimidating lineup. I've always liked power in the leadoff position, and Wells OR Abreu clearly provide that. But this way, we're better staggered lefty/righty. Either way you slice it, I'm warming up to the idea of adding Abreu and moving Lind/Reed for middle infield help. I think Lind should draw significant interest and if we package him with a reliever we should be able to pry MLB ready middle infield away from somebody. I think Lind will be a very good player but we desperately need to resolve the infield situation to be competitive.

frostilicus
08-21-2007, 01:56 PM
I was reading in sports illustrated that Fukodome is going to command something in the neighbourhood of 4 to 5 years at 15 million per. I know some people have been throwing his name around here... that's a pretty healthy investment though.

jaysfan46
08-21-2007, 03:33 PM
and if the Indians are going to give up on Barfield would it be such a bad idea to make a minor deal for him - say Adams and a relief pitcher - and gamble that he will bloom at 2B for us?

I know, the sentiment of bringing in Jessie's Kid probably makes him look better to me than he is.....but if I'm gonna move Hill over and hand 2B to a question mark, I'd rather that question mark be Barfield as Adams...

Definately, Barfield was actually pretty good last year. IDK if the Indians are gonna give up on him after on poor year they're usually pretty patient.

WillRain
08-21-2007, 05:24 PM
See: Phillips, Brandon

(yeah, I know, Phillips' success might be MORE incentivefor them to be patient but a guy can hope...)