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View Full Version : Could Vazquez be a Brave?



Joe Smoe
07-14-2007, 04:10 PM
As reported on Baseball Opinion (http://baseball-opinion.com/2007/071207.htm) and was thought I would share


Could Vazquez be a Brave?

Christopher Solberg, Editor
7/12/2007

The Chicago White Sox have been long rumored to be interested in trading off some of their higher priced players in an attempt to rebuild for 2008. But Mark Buehrle’s contract extension complete, the possible arms left available include Javier Vazquez, Jose Contreras, and Jon Garland.

Could the Atlanta Braves Trade for Javier Vazquez? There have been a few rumors of John Schuerholz’s interest in him before. Back in 2003, he tried to trade for Javier when he was still with the Expos. However the deal was supposedly nixed by MLB when they controlled the franchise. Rumors also floated around about a trade in 2004 the would have sent Andruw Jones to the New York Yankees for Vazquez as well. The Braves were also rumored in December 2005 to be looking at the right-hander according to a Ken Rosenthal article.

So, could Schuerholz be looking into trading for him again? According to the Chicago Tribune (thanks to MLBTR for the link) the Braves had scouts at a White Sox / Devil Rays game. Judging on the day of the report, they could have been scouting Mark Buehrle. But could they have stuck around for latter in the series to scout Vazquez as well? Analyst after analyst continue to strike down trade rumors for Ken Griffey Jr. or Mark Teixeira, citing the Braves need for another solid starter.

The Braves could conceivably give up Jarrod Saltalmachia for Vazquez as the White Sox look to eventually replace A.J. Pierzynski. The deal would most likely take another prospect with the way that Vazquez has been pitching lately. Possibly another pitcher? Maybe a Jo-Jo Reyes who was recently called up, possibly to showcase for a trade.

Vazquez would fit in nicely behind John Smoltz and Tim Hudson, sliding Chuck James to a more appropriate 4th spot in the rotation. This would leave the promising but inconsistent Kyle Davies, the mildly surprising Buddy Carlyle, and Lance Cormier to fight for the last spot.

Can Ken Williams and John Schuerholz make it work? Nineteen days left, we shall see.

Its a interesting point of view, on how much Schuerholz thinks of the guy, and the Trade Pieces the writer sets up is a interesting one.


Jarrod Saltalmachia the switch-hitting Catcher/First Baseman a new fan favorite. Who is hitting .315 with 4 homers and 11 Rbi's in just 108 at bats.

Jo-Jo Reyes the young upstart pitcher who is just starting to show form.

Both major pieces of the farm teams prospects who are starting to come to light.

For

Javier Vazquez - 6 Win 5 Loses Era 3.65 Whip of 1.07 7th in AL in Strike outs,
and is Projected to eat over 200 innings this year.


Vazquezs negative side last few years is where his era was 4.91 in 2004 with the Yankees, 4.42 in 2005 with Arizona, and 4.84 in 2006 with the White Sox.

His contract is $34.5 million, currently in a three-year contract extension through 2010. Vazquez will get $12.5 million this season, the final year of his current contract, and $11.5 million in each of the following three seasons.

If the Braves could make room for his contract for the next few years, it could be the difference in the rotation. If he returns to his previous form then he is a 4th slot pitcher.

With a true 1, 2, 3 threats it could make a true run happen.
What is the price of the pennant to the Braves and its fans?

Cronin
07-14-2007, 04:56 PM
I think that would be a great deal for both teams. I'd love to see it happen for you

Chiefsbigfan59
07-14-2007, 05:29 PM
No way we wont giveup Salty to you guys. You guys can have Escobar to take over in your infield nest season. He has allot of potential and promise as one of the best young infielders available. You guys need somebody who can play SS and 2B. So that would be good also. Iguchi might be gone after this season and he is aging and Uriba is not doing well at all. Uribe might actually be better suited at 2B. Put Escobar at SS and you guys will have a great SS which is important.

jmtapia
07-14-2007, 06:39 PM
I agree although Vasquez would definetly strenghten our rotation i would not trade Salty for him. His past ERAs, in my opinion are not to appealing, i think for those stats we minus well put up and hope that Davies, Carlyle or James come into form.

Escobar however i would pull the trigger on. To me Escobar allthough he may have a very promising future is the odd man out. With all the talent behind him and the talent in front of him i think we should take advantage of his great burst onto the MLB scene and get something in return for him. To
me Kelly Johnson is a better fit, more power out of that slot and as we have seen his work ethic at 2nd is admirable.

Another aspect however is Vasquez's salary however if we dont keep Andrew, which i highly doubt we will, then i think we will be alright.

Joe Smoe
07-14-2007, 09:02 PM
Personally, I wouldnt trade Salty and Reyes. I could see Salty straight up. I would so hate to see him go, as I feel he will be awesome in the years to come. But, to loose because we dont have that missing peice I feel would worse.

Chipper
07-14-2007, 09:09 PM
Nah. I wouldn't trade Salty for Vazquez. The most would be: Yunel and Jo Jo

RandyRocks77
07-14-2007, 10:37 PM
why do people seem to want to give up on Jo-Jo so easy?

Chipper
07-14-2007, 10:48 PM
Cause I want Javier more than Jo Jo!

BRAVE KID
07-14-2007, 11:01 PM
why do people seem to want to give up on Jo-Jo so easy?
By "people" I bet you mean Chipper right? Yep he is so eager to get rid of Jo-Jo.

Chipper
07-14-2007, 11:05 PM
Salty is more valuable than Jo Jo and while I like Reyes stuff, I like Javier more. Jo Jo will be a promising player, don't get me wrong. I want him, but not if I can trade him to make the team better.

jmtapia
07-14-2007, 11:09 PM
Previous to this season Vazquez had posted ERAs of above 4.5 respectively in each of his last 3 stops.
Although he has come into form with a 3.65 ERA this year his salary is some what high. I think if the White Soxs are willing to eat some of it then a Escobar and Jo Jo trade would be appealing for both sides.

All indication are that if Jo Jo keeps his Strike outs high, his ability to get out Left Handers will prove to be an impressive assest to an MLB Club. However, almost all reports have Jo Jo being a solid number 3 or 4 starter.
Hence, its not like hes tabs as an Ace or anything.

For this reason it all depends on the Braves front office mentality. A win know mentality would lean towards making the trade. However, if we are planning for the future then maybe we should see how far Jo Jo developes.

sager729
07-15-2007, 12:10 AM
Previous to this season Vazquez had posted ERAs of above 4.5 respectively in each of his last 3 stops.
Although he has come into form with a 3.65 ERA this year his salary is some what high. I think if the White Soxs are willing to eat some of it then a Escobar and Jo Jo trade would be appealing for both sides.

All indication are that if Jo Jo keeps his Strike outs high, his ability to get out Left Handers will prove to be an impressive assest to an MLB Club. However, almost all reports have Jo Jo being a solid number 3 or 4 starter.
Hence, its not like hes tabs as an Ace or anything.

For this reason it all depends on the Braves front office mentality. A win know mentality would lean towards making the trade. However, if we are planning for the future then maybe we should see how far Jo Jo developes.

I see what you are all saying about Salty, but JS and the Braves aren't a wait for the future kind of team (which I really like about them). They play to win every year. The Sox have 2 starters that could go to the Braves, Jose Contreras and Javier Vazquez. I could see these two trades.

Contreras for Escobar and Devine

Vazquez for Salty and Reyes

Either one would really help the Braves win this year and in the future. I think the Braves need to go for one of them because most likely they are going to go to the NL and some of you biggest competition.

jmtapia
07-15-2007, 02:43 AM
At this point i think we havent made a trade for that reason that every team is asking for Salty.
As soon as teams realize that Salty isnt going anywhere then i believe that they will start asking for other prospects like Escobar, Jo Jo and maybe even Thorman and Kelly.

In order for that to happen though i believe that the Braves either have to give Salty the everyday first base job or send him down to the Minors. In the mean time it just seems like the Braves dont know what to do with him.

All in all, i dont think we should trade Salty period. Or for the sake of this thread not for Vazquez.

Joe Smoe
07-15-2007, 04:40 AM
The price will be set by what teams are willing to offer, just for a chance to compete. I trust JS and his advisors to make the right trade, if it be Vazques or some other guy.

If it took Salty and Escobar both to achieve another Series, I would say go for it. We have more prospects coming up next year, and the years after that. JS and Cox will not be around forever, and neither will the long string of winning. It pits my stomach to think out of the last decade and all of the success, we have only 1 series to show for it.

Chipper
07-15-2007, 07:09 AM
I wouldn't trade our future for one world series.

sager729
07-15-2007, 11:55 AM
Wow that is a strong statement. If I were a Braves fan I would think about it like this. We are one of the best organizations in baseball, we have a good farm system and a player or two won't kill our future. If we can go out and get a nice veteran pitcher that could put us over the top and win the WS I do it in a heartbeat.

BRAVE KID
07-15-2007, 12:43 PM
I would do this trade and only this trade and it pains me to do it cause I really want to see this guy get a couple more starts to see what he really can bring to us.

Jo-Jo and Escobar

for

Vazquez

That is plenty for Vazquez. if the braves trade Salty and someone else just for vazquez then that would be a mistake.

tomno00
07-15-2007, 12:44 PM
salty and reyes for vazquez??? you have got to be nuts.... unless the whitesox plan on giving us some prospects in that deal as well, why the hell would we want an overpriced inconistent pitcher

BRAVE KID
07-15-2007, 12:48 PM
salty and reyes for vazquez??? you have got to be nuts.... unless the whitesox plan on giving us some prospects in that deal as well, why the hell would we want an overpriced inconistent pitcher
That is what I said, but some people don't see there is a problem there, can you say better deal for the white sox.

tomno00
07-15-2007, 12:51 PM
Javier Vazquez career numbers:
106-110
era of 4.31

Chipper
07-15-2007, 01:15 PM
More like Yunel and Reyes.

sager729
07-15-2007, 01:43 PM
Oh I am sure the Braves would get at least one prospect with Vazquez for Salty and JoJo. Schurholz will get all he can out of a team.

sager729
07-15-2007, 01:44 PM
I think it is more that I just want you guys to get another proven veteran SP and beat the Mets in that division.

Joe Smoe
07-15-2007, 01:53 PM
Javier Vazquez is a risk indeed. One year of decent era. He has experience but that doesn’t mean jack if he doesn’t know how to use it.

I read this today:


Sunday, July 15, 2007
By Dejan Kovacevic, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07196/801846-63.stm)

Atlanta management would seek nothing less than an impact-caliber young pitcher in exchange for promising catcher/first baseman Jarrod Saltalamacchia. The Pirates are among several teams to have inquired about him in the past month.

If the Pirates were foolish enough to offer Ian Snell (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7411) or Tom Gorzelanny (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7678) for Salty then we would be fools to not take either one of them. They have been stellar on a less then stellar team, and clearly the Nucleus of the rebuilt Pirates.

But the good thing is we do have many options, and people are aware that we value Salty highly. I think JS will pull the trigger on one of these deals. Hopefully Salty wont be included in one of them. But, I would understand if he was.

In some ways I feel the intrest only increases his trade value.

baseballman8388
07-15-2007, 04:51 PM
I agree with Joe. If Snell or Gorzelanny were offered, we should definitely take that deal. As far as Vasquez. I would probably take him for Escobar and Jo-Jo, maybe straight up for Salty. Definitely not Salty and Reyes. I also agree that JS holds the power here, because he has one of the most coveted, expendable young players in the game. He has a place where he can use him if he so chooses, but he can also shop him to almost any team if he wants.

BRAVE KID
07-15-2007, 06:44 PM
Snell and Gorzelanny are definately studs and exactly what we are looking for in return for Salty but unless the pirates are seriously desperate in getting a bat there are not going anywhere cause they know how rare young aces are these days.

baseballman8388
07-15-2007, 07:01 PM
Yep, exactly.

RandyRocks77
07-15-2007, 07:27 PM
I'd be happier with Snell than Javy

Chipper
07-15-2007, 07:31 PM
I'd be happier with Gorzellany than Snell. (I won't say a thing about Duke!)

Bravesman11
07-15-2007, 07:49 PM
If we are to trade Salty to the Pirates for just Snell or Gorzellany we would also need at least one great prospect along with one of them. It's easy to scout and draft a pretty good pitcher like Snell or Gorzellany, but how hard is it to draft a defensivley sound, good switch-hitting catcher like Saltalamachia?

Here's the trade I see-

Tom Gorzellany, Nate McLouth

for

Jarrod Saltalamachia, low-key prospect

Chipper
07-15-2007, 08:11 PM
If we are to trade Salty to the Pirates for just Snell or Gorzellany we would also need at least one great prospect along with one of them. It's easy to scout and draft a pretty good pitcher like Snell or Gorzellany, but how hard is it to draft a defensivley sound, good switch-hitting catcher like Saltalamachia?

Here's the trade I see-

Tom Gorzellany, Nate McLouth

for

Jarrod Saltalamachia, low-key prospect

But Salty is a rare breed of catchers. Not many have the potential he has. Were talking better power numbers and almost a better arm than Pudge here. And if I was to trade him:

Braves get: Jason Bay and Gorzellany

Pirates get: Yunel, Salty, and Jo Jo/Startup/Devine. Pick one.

jmtapia
07-15-2007, 08:12 PM
instead of Nate McClouth i would much rather have Brad Corley.
I see Brandon Jones taking over at center so i think there is not need for
McClouth.

Chipper
07-15-2007, 08:26 PM
I see Francoeur in Center with Brandon Jones in RF, though I would rather have him LF.

zzConflict
07-15-2007, 08:37 PM
Braves get: Jason Bay and Gorzellany

Pirates get: Yunel, Salty, and Jo Jo/Startup/Devine. Pick one.

Hey, good luck on that one.

Chipper
07-15-2007, 08:40 PM
Yeah, didn't think they'd trade Bay anyway. Good luck with your division! (Ha)

gobulls10
07-15-2007, 10:11 PM
reyes and salty for vasquez i think that would be a horrible deal

Chipper
07-15-2007, 10:20 PM
Same here

Joe Smoe
07-15-2007, 11:46 PM
I still think the Pirates would be fools to even think of trading one of there young two aces away.

jmtapia
07-16-2007, 12:02 AM
i think we would be even bigger fools to trade away Salty for anything less.

RandyRocks77
07-16-2007, 09:40 AM
reyes and salty for vasquez i think that would be a horrible deal

I agree we don't want his bagage

sager729
07-16-2007, 11:32 AM
What baggage?

Chipper
07-16-2007, 11:46 AM
His contract I think.

rtgthree
07-16-2007, 12:01 PM
His contract I think.

I didn't realize just how expensive Vazquez was. He's owed $11.5 million each of the next three years (thru 2010). That's a lot to stomach for a team (like the Braves) without a whole lot of payroll flexibility. We'd have to get some cash as part of the deal to help defray the cost.

Chipper
07-16-2007, 12:06 PM
I like Vazquez, but I wouldn't do that deal. I like the Gorz or Snell deal better.

sager729
07-16-2007, 01:26 PM
Well yeah any team would rather have a young ace in a trade. As for Vazquez, he is right around market price for the kind of pitcher he is. I think the Sox would eat some of his salary, but if they did that you can garuntee that they would want Salty, Reyes and someone else for him. I could see a deal like this if the Braves wanted some salary eaten.

Braves get:
Javier Vazquez
$8-10 mil towards Vazquez's contract
Low A ball pitcher

White Sox get:
Jarrod Saltalamacchia
JoJo Reyes
Thomas Hanson

For teams to eat salary you have to give up better prospects.

rtgthree
07-16-2007, 01:27 PM
I like Vazquez, but I wouldn't do that deal. I like the Gorz or Snell deal better.

The Pirates might trade Gorzelanny or Snell for Saltalamacchia, but I doubt you'd be able to get another top prospect in the deal.

sager729
07-16-2007, 01:35 PM
Yeah I think that would be a straight up deal or involve a couple of prospects that the other teams like and pretty even prospects.

jmtapia
07-16-2007, 05:16 PM
For Snell i would consider Salty but still say no.
For Gorz it would be a definate no on Salty. This is the first season that either one of these pitchers have posted respectable numbers. Gorz didnt even post great numbers in the Minors, Snell at least did.

Lets get Morris + Cash, SF want to ship him out, for Thorman and a Prospect.

BRAVE KID
07-16-2007, 05:38 PM
Giving up Salty straight up for:

Snell- yes
Gorzelanny- yes
Vazquez- no, cause the white sox are probably going to want more.

Like I said before Jo-Jo and Escobar IS PLENTY for Vazquez. I don't want to give up Jo-Jo but IF WE DESPERATELY want Vazquez then that is more than enough to get him.

BRAVE KID
07-16-2007, 05:41 PM
Well yeah any team would rather have a young ace in a trade. As for Vazquez, he is right around market price for the kind of pitcher he is. I think the Sox would eat some of his salary, but if they did that you can garuntee that they would want Salty, Reyes and someone else for him. I could see a deal like this if the Braves wanted some salary eaten.

Braves get:
Javier Vazquez
$8-10 mil towards Vazquez's contract
Low A ball pitcher

White Sox get:
Jarrod Saltalamacchia
JoJo Reyes
Thomas Hanson

For teams to eat salary you have to give up better prospects.Wow, okay humm I am going to pass on that.

sager729
07-16-2007, 06:22 PM
I am just saying if you want he Sox to eat some salary then you have to give up more.

Chipper
07-16-2007, 06:30 PM
Not Hanson. Yunel.

Saltyfan
07-16-2007, 09:15 PM
I agree Jo Jo and Salty for Vazquez is way to much.. Both of these players need to stick with the braves...

Lady's Man
01-17-2009, 09:26 PM
Well yeah any team would rather have a young ace in a trade. As for Vazquez, he is right around market price for the kind of pitcher he is. I think the Sox would eat some of his salary, but if they did that you can garuntee that they would want Salty, Reyes and someone else for him. I could see a deal like this if the Braves wanted some salary eaten.

Braves get:
Javier Vazquez
$8-10 mil towards Vazquez's contract
Low A ball pitcher

White Sox get:
Jarrod Saltalamacchia
JoJo Reyes
Thomas Hanson

For teams to eat salary you have to give up better prospects.


what a deal that would have been

jdiddy24
01-17-2009, 09:29 PM
If we are to trade Salty to the Pirates for just Snell or Gorzellany we would also need at least one great prospect along with one of them. It's easy to scout and draft a pretty good pitcher like Snell or Gorzellany, but how hard is it to draft a defensivley sound, good switch-hitting catcher like Saltalamachia?

Here's the trade I see-

Tom Gorzellany, Nate McLouth

for

Jarrod Saltalamachia, low-key prospect


that wouldve been nice....

BRAVE KID
01-17-2009, 10:07 PM
reviving threads from years past..how lovely