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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    58

    Rebuilding the Mets for the Future

    At the risk of being premature, I believe it is time to face the inevitable rebuilding of the New York Mets. It's not just because of the prolific losing that I believe a rebuild is in order, it is the manner in which the team is losing. Also, with some notable exceptions, there is a dearth of talent in the minor league system to replace the non-performing major league players. The question is whether the Mets need a complete top-to-bottom rebuild or a less drastic remaking of the major league roster.

    If Sandy Alderson decides just to remake the major league roster, he has few easy decisions. Jason Vargas, Todd Frazier, and Jay Bruce are under contract. Yoenis Cespedes has a monster contract that no one will want to absorb so long as he cannot prove he can stay on the field. Alderson will have a much easier task if he decides to completely rebuild the team. If he decides to rebuild he can ditch players like Bruce, Frazier, and Vargas and replace them with league minimum players. He will probably have to retain Cespedes but that will not be a completely bad thing when Cespedes finally is able to play again. Cespedes is not going to want to play for a Met team that will have a hard time winning 60 games for the next two seasons, so he may be open to a trade.

    It goes without saying that the Mets needs a lot of good prospect. The best way to get those prospects is by trading the most valuable chips the team has and those chips are better known as Jacob deGrom, Noah Syndergaard, Seth Lugo, Robert Gsellman, and Steven Matz. Up until a few days ago I did not want to see Syndergaard traded but I have changed my mind. While Syndergaard is young and has plenty of upside, he will demand a good return on the trade market precisely for those reasons. If the Mets are committed to rebuilding they have to consider trading him. I will add Zach Wheeler's name but I believe his trade value is minimal until he can put together a quality season. Familia is a free agent after this season, so the Mets need to move him before the deadline (if he is off the DL and performing well).

    Position players are a different animal. Conforto's value will remain low until he can prove he has bounced back from his shoulder injury. He is playing everyday but there is no production. Nimmo is a gem. I would rather keep him than trade him but you have to listen to all offers.The same with Rosario. Bruce has to go at all costs. Frazier should be made available. If there are no takers I have no problem with him being back next year. Mesaraco and Plawecki are back up catchers. If d'Arnaud returns in 2019 it should be d'Arnaud and Mesaraco with Plawecki the odd man out. Unless a catcher can be acquired via trade they are the only viable options. Obviously, Jose Reyes needs to go. Asdurbal Cabera is a good player but a contending team may want his abilities down the stretch. The same with Wilmer Flores. He could be a valuable player on some team's bench.

    Let us not forget another necessary change. I think Mickey Callaway has to go. He is a skilled pitching coach but he is in over his head as manager of the Mets. I would like to see Alderson replaced but the Wilpons will never do it. Alderson provides the Wilpons cover.

    The hard pill to swallow is that this team will be difficult to watch for the next 2-3 years and may not be a contender for the next 3-5 years. That's the way total rebuilds work, unless you have huge cash to throw at top tier free agents. But we all know what happens when those free agents break down. The bottom line? Rebuilds are not fun. Attendance will be down, spirits will be in the dumps, and pundits like Pope Francesa will enjoy every moment of it. I was a one year old when my grandfather put me in a stroller and took me to the Mets inaugural 1962 season at the Polo Grounds, so Met blue and orange is in my blood. I want this team to succeed and think a total rebuild is the way to do it.

    Thoughts? Comments? Agree? Disagree? Have at it. I welcome other opinions.

    P.S. Sorry for the long-winded post. I try to keep my posts pithy but I had a lot to say here.
    Last edited by Exit15W; 06-14-2018 at 07:29 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    42,086
    I would trade Bruce and money for Shaw. Both are under contract for three years and both have sucked.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    32,615
    Total rebuild is fine. But that starts with a new GM. You don't do this with the same guy who got you into this mess.

    Alderson doesn't believe in giving 1 or 2 star players long-term deals but is completely obsessed with giving aging and seriously flawed players 2-4 year deals. Those flawed players and their contracts start piling up on your roster and payroll. And one day you wake up and you have guys like Jason Vargas, Jay Bruce, Todd Frazier and Asdrubal Cabrera all over your team - supplemented by the likes of Jose Reyes, A-Gon and Jose Bautista.

    This is the opposite of a winning strategy in a young man's game dominated by teams who have young athletes that know how to hit.

    Any rebuild starts with Alderson getting fired. Otherwise it isn't real.

    Don't worry. He's got this.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post

    Any rebuild starts with Alderson getting fired. Otherwise, it isn't real.
    And that is the hard part. I do not believe the Wilpons will part with Alderson. The Wilpons hired Alderson at the behest of the commissioner after the Madoff debacle. I still think the Wilpons are recovering from that. If Alderson does not go, well, it is Bon Jovi time, "Livin' on a Prayer".

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    The Boogie Down
    Posts
    93,867
    These owners and GM will never ever go full rebuild, they only care about false winners and possibly contending in September.


    So they will trot out similar rosters and hope for the best.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn New York
    Posts
    17,901
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    I would trade Bruce and money for Shaw. Both are under contract for three years and both have sucked.
    Donít steal my idea that I stole from Joel Sherman.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    42,086
    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    Donít steal my idea that I stole from Joel Sherman.
    It's a good trade, and a great idea. I was having a discussion with a friend and he told me this idea. Now I know where he got it from.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn New York
    Posts
    17,901
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    It's a good trade, and a great idea. I was having a discussion with a friend and he told me this idea. Now I know where he got it from.
    I think Shaw has like 19MM left while Bruce has 32MM. Even out the 13MM by giving them Vargas and weíre In business. I think both guys would benefit from the new stadiums.

    Shaw would definitely benefit from Mickey st the very least

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    I would trade Bruce and money for Shaw. Both are under contract for three years and both have sucked.
    Unfortunately, the Mets can't trade Bruce for a bag of hammers because of his bad back and plantar faciitis.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,453
    Quote Originally Posted by Exit15W View Post
    At the risk of being premature, I believe it is time to face the inevitable rebuilding of the New York Mets. It's not just because of the prolific losing that I believe a rebuild is in order, it is the manner in which the team is losing. Also, with some notable exceptions, there is a dearth of talent in the minor league system to replace the non-performing major league players. The question is whether the Mets need a complete top-to-bottom rebuild or a less drastic remaking of the major league roster.

    If Sandy Alderson decides just to remake the major league roster, he has few easy decisions. Jason Vargas, Todd Frazier, and Jay Bruce are under contract. Yoenis Cespedes has a monster contract that no one will want to absorb so long as he cannot prove he can stay on the field. Alderson will have a much easier task if he decides to completely rebuild the team. If he decides to rebuild he can ditch players like Bruce, Frazier, and Vargas and replace them with league minimum players. He will probably have to retain Cespedes but that will not be a completely bad thing when Cespedes finally is able to play again. Cespedes is not going to want to play for a Met team that will have a hard time winning 60 games for the next two seasons, so he may be open to a trade.

    It goes without saying that the Mets needs a lot of good prospect. The best way to get those prospects is by trading the most valuable chips the team has and those chips are better known as Jacob deGrom, Noah Syndergaard, Seth Lugo, Robert Gsellman, and Steven Matz. Up until a few days ago I did not want to see Syndergaard traded but I have changed my mind. While Syndergaard is young and has plenty of upside, he will demand a good return on the trade market precisely for those reasons. If the Mets are committed to rebuilding they have to consider trading him. I will add Zach Wheeler's name but I believe his trade value is minimal until he can put together a quality season. Familia is a free agent after this season, so the Mets need to move him before the deadline (if he is off the DL and performing well).

    Position players are a different animal. Conforto's value will remain low until he can prove he has bounced back from his shoulder injury. He is playing everyday but there is no production. Nimmo is a gem. I would rather keep him than trade him but you have to listen to all offers.The same with Rosario. Bruce has to go at all costs. Frazier should be made available. If there are no takers I have no problem with him being back next year. Mesaraco and Plawecki are back up catchers. If d'Arnaud returns in 2019 it should be d'Arnaud and Mesaraco with Plawecki the odd man out. Unless a catcher can be acquired via trade they are the only viable options. Obviously, Jose Reyes needs to go. Asdurbal Cabera is a good player but a contending team may want his abilities down the stretch. The same with Wilmer Flores. He could be a valuable player on some team's bench.

    Let us not forget another necessary change. I think Mickey Callaway has to go. He is a skilled pitching coach but he is in over his head as manager of the Mets. I would like to see Alderson replaced but the Wilpons will never do it. Alderson provides the Wilpons cover.

    The hard pill to swallow is that this team will be difficult to watch for the next 2-3 years and may not be a contender for the next 3-5 years. That's the way total rebuilds work, unless you have huge cash to throw at top tier free agents. But we all know what happens when those free agents break down. The bottom line? Rebuilds are not fun. Attendance will be down, spirits will be in the dumps, and pundits like Pope Francesa will enjoy every moment of it. I was a one year old when my grandfather put me in a stroller and took me to the Mets inaugural 1962 season at the Polo Grounds, so Met blue and orange is in my blood. I want this team to succeed and think a total rebuild is the way to do it.

    Thoughts? Comments? Agree? Disagree? Have at it. I welcome other opinions.

    P.S. Sorry for the long-winded post. I try to keep my posts pithy but I had a lot to say here.
    You do not let go of a manager so quickly, you have to give him a chance. Coach K at Duke was awful his first 2 years and alumni were clammering for him to be fired. The AD stuck with him and the results speak for themselves.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East of the Sun, West of the Moon
    Posts
    26,866

    Rebuilding the Mets for the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyndave View Post
    You do not let go of a manager so quickly, you have to give him a chance. Coach K at Duke was awful his first 2 years and alumni were clammering for him to be fired. The AD stuck with him and the results speak for themselves.
    I have no idea about Mickey Calloway.
    Whether or not you keep him or not depends on how he handles the pressure of losing in NYC. If he cracks he should go. TC handled the stress so well - a significant reason why he is the Mets second best manager of all time.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Baseball Maverick: How Sandy Alderson Revolutionized Baseball and Revived the Mets
    I am that Daddy Cool

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    42,086
    Terry is Better than Bobby, Davey or Gil?


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    I have no idea about Mickey Calloway.
    Whether or not you keep him or not depends on how he handles the pressure of losing in NYC. If he cracks he should go. TC handled the stress so well
    TC did handle the pressure well. He was a capable big league manager. The quality of a manager is seen when times are tough. How does the manager handle adversity? Can he keep the players from getting too low? Is he able to make the tough personel decisions as to who plays and who sits? Right now Callaway is not acquiting himself well. Does he last the rest of the season? Probably. Does he come back next year? It depends. If the team finishes in last place 30 games under .500 then he is probably gone. Alderson doesn't want to fire his manager after one season because it's a direct reflection on his decision in hiring him.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    58
    Even though Belvins was rocked last night he is still an in-demand left specialist. Send him to a contending team with an energized clubhouse and his performance will most likely turn around.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    39,340
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Terry is Better than Bobby, Davey or Gil?
    I'd take Terry every day of the week and twice on Sundays over Bobby.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears Ė but they seem kinda sensible...."

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