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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHANGO View Post
    I agree, that's why I said it's the smart thing to do. But for him if he wants to be in the GOAT convo I don't think 5 more years of NBA and 16 season played will do it. Forget the move, the team he joined, how he won the rings. 5 more years of NBA scoring 2,000 points in each season (that is being generous and assuming he plays close to 75 games) he will have 31k points his biggest competition will always be Lebron due to eras and times facing each other and Lebron right now at 31k is still going strong (he scored the most points he scored in a season this year since 2010 or so) so he can finish easily at 37k, 40k depending on how many more seasons he plays.

    To me he doesn't care about that, he already said it and while that might be a lie and he can't sleep at nights because of the decision he made; if he does retire at 35 it will be easier to negate his GOAT resume or Top 5-10 resume.
    I want to see KD and LeBron create something special in the Lakers. I can see them winning at least three rings and putting themselves as the #1/#3 GOAT's in NBA history. Then add the fact that both players likely can past KAJ's scoring record, no doubt I would put KD at #3 and leBron at #1.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by basketfan4life View Post
    Teaming up with 2 other superstars to form a team that is above the rest of the league is a ***** move in my eyes. The team Durant went should be better, the point is they are both ***** moves.

    For example if Durant went to washington to play with wall and beal and build a team around that to compete against Kyrie/Lbj/ love, and Golden State i would be perfectly fine.

    For me to give an example for 2010 lbj i should look at the rosters at that time, which i won't but i am sure there are other good options out there.
    Which teams, if he joins Dallas, do they not win the title?

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
    It's all completely circumstantial, you're never going to find two different offseason moves that are 1:1.
    Yes, the circumstantial aspects are what I'm seeking . If we can never find the 1:1 then it should be beyond obvious why joining a ready made champ +history setter is far different than what came about in Miami

  4. #184
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    lmao, this same **** is still going on..?

    Do people view Kevin love in Cleveland as highly as they did in Minny? As far as kd's original comment, there's your answer right there..
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
    Are you asking why LeBron didn't take a vet minimum deal to sign in LA or Boston?
    No, I'm saying if he found his way there, be it by any means necessary, i'l leave that to you but this is my hypothetical considering the cap explosion changing the game for a coincidental blip. Joining those two elite contenders is FAR different than creating a NEW contender to take them down. It's really that simple.


    I think your second part is right, as they were clearly colluding to join each other long before that offseason
    That's a non differentiating factor considering collusion has been a part of the game since forever. There are rumors that the Dubs were wooing KD amidst his choke job against them ffs. KG himself wasn't a free agent but he went from saying no to being traded to the celtics, then 1 ray Allen trade later being there himself.

    but the argument "competitive balance" and LeBron don't exist together lol. He's likely going to prove that for the third time this offseason, although now it's a continuing trend that is unavoidable if he wants to win another title.
    You've contradicted yourself here. Bron joining a team with a reasonable shot at beating the warriors HELPS competitive balance. It's this nuance in context that you guys miss out on. Bron JOINING the Dubs would be far closer in proximity to your point.

    Wade was at his best over a full season in 2008-09. So you think he was notably worse one year later?
    He was factually less productive, especially given the team context. Focus on facts instead of straws and you'll understand the difference between peak and prime.

    How fortunate to wipe away a great performance by Wade because Boston "didn't take them seriously".
    Nah, just a result of endless research on the matter.

    How about the entire 2010-11 season? Did Dallas and Boston take him seriously?

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...s-vs-heat.html
    The season where the decline continued for a 30 year old with an athletically dependent style who's already suffered numerous franchise altering injuries. Yeah, I'd say that it's safe to say his "peak'(because " " quotations and literal words matter) was behind him and it was proven true by all objective barometers.

    This is "declining" Wade?
    Yes

    Is Curry declining right now?
    Show me the similarities between someone who hasn't won and was statistically declining before the eventual union vs a 2 time mvp (once unanimous) champion and record setting team. Really because if those 2 defections are the same, I'd love to see an example where you actually approve.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Ray Allen had kinda fallen off compared to what he was in Seattle, where dude was getting to the rack at will. He did remain an elite shooter tho. Garnett was mvp caliber when he first got to Boston
    It's about role too tho, there's a reason he clashed with rondo. Same reason why he looked better with bron in Miami compared to his final celtics days

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    1. Wade was probably the third best player in the nba around 2010. Consensus wise or whatever at least and my opinion as well. You can argue a spot maybe cause I love CP3 and am not 100% off memory but he was right there playing at an elite level. Now you could argue there were signs his game would decline quicker etc. but I doubt that's overly factored in. Bosh was considered top 15 I would say.

    2. Boston wasn't ancient when they joined up and Rondo developing made them look tough still, 2010 finals was that 7 game Bos/LA series. Any mention of Heat forcing GS would start with Boston starting it etc. if you wanna ignore the details. They are all different moves but it was a chain reaction in a sense, it didn't start with the Heat though and they weren't even around anymore to compete with like Boston this was after the fact by years.

    3. LA at the time had Kobe (top 2), Gasol (top 10), Bynum (up and coming top 5 or so Center) and Ron Artest (declining a bit but likely a top 10 SF). This was a team that wasn't drastically far off from talent in anything like GS to others. Lebron/Kobe/Wade/Gasol/Bosh/Bynum/Artest gives Miami the edge talent wise but LA has the star/depth over them.

    4. Many pointed it out at the time but lack of depth on Miami as they started Anthony and washed up Bibby or young chalmers to go along with fit issues in general. This was a team being created not something in place already proven/capable etc. and outside of just those 3 they lacked elsewhere to start. This is why even though they did have the advantage with their top 3 and stuff the odds I have brought up plenty showed something closer to GS pre Durant in dominance. There were other great teams AND this Miami team had some flaws/was unproven.

    5. What Lebron did was weak. I have said it plenty as have many many others who criticize KD. The thing is it wasn't to a level that would simply allow him to step back and let those around him carry if needed. We saw defer mode Lebron when he choked the 2011 finals away, they didn't win because he didn't dominate. We hadn't already literally see this core win a title/73 RS wins before dominating and being compared to all time great teams. It made it so that they weren't just matching up in the same way I showed with Miami/Lakers. They were blowing the talent out with two top 3-5 players and two all stars, FMVP as depth and already proven system/coach around them while being at the top of the league over the last 2 years (outside 3 finals games). That initial GS team was far closer to the heat with the lack of depth and more issues with their fit. GS to start each season is favorite over every other team combined and by a decent amount too (maybe that will finally change), Miami was right by other teams in a similar sense we have always seen. Thats the key to many and what most want to completely ignore. Lebron was weak because he gave himself an advantage many all time greats have had of joining with talent and taking on solid competition etc. his how of using FA was the biggest difference. Durant jumped onto a team that was already at the top/winning titles/setting records over the last 2 season which is not something we have ever seen before and there are more context issues that make the perception much worse too (blowing 3-1 lead). The level to which he stacked things is the biggest difference and that's what most long time NBA fans get.

    6. As much as it wasn't part of the initial plan part of what got Lebron so much credit is that Wade did start to have health issues and fell off a bit. He was a great 2nd option still but not 3rd best player in the league or anything. The Thunder coming with Westy/Harden/KD/Ibaka also was huge as they had 3 stars competition type thing (think they were underdogs heading in). Spurs playoff runs and further falling off as well made the competition seem great and there were tons of memorable moments in this span. Think Boston game 6 at the garden. The end of game 6, Ray Allen shot and his game 7. All of this with him clearly dominating the league as MVP, FMVP, clear cut best player on his team and in the league etc. All of this also plays into why the Heat ended up a little bit more alright in people minds is he faced far more adversity along the way than many initially thought he would. That is part of what let his greatness shine through is overcoming those tough obstacles along the way individually when his team wasn't quite as good as expected. If Lebron chooses to go to Houston or something and really challenge GS in a great way it could actually start to turn things around but right now many just see exactly what was expected and a very boring two years of NBA title runs. Houston series had injuries, GS looking lazy throughout, and a very confusing end to game 4 and even play into game 5 where they just looked like crap and not playing their offense. It was almost like they were bored mid series, some even said scared. I think clearly as we saw in 2nd half's etc they knew when they turned it on they were gonna win (so long as they don't "choke" like that 4th quarter game 4). Either way CP3 being out and them winning is the most impressive thing on their resume since KD which just isn't the same as the above.
    1 beyond obvious wade was not going to sustain his already declining production given his style and age. Haven't looked at the list but idc where you rank him, he's just one player.

    2. Replace Rondo with bron, then you have a team on par talent wise


    3. Kobe had the best frontcourt in the league and a 3nD pg with the 6moy +Phil. Boston had 3 or 4 hofers.

    4. You forgot Erick dampier. It's this simple, you take kd or bron off either team, there's a DRASTIC difference in success.


    Where could have bron gone that was fair?

  8. #188
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    Seriously there are people who think that there have been teams with equal talent to these warriors? Lol for real? Lol

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunkapolooza View Post
    Seriously there are people who think that there have been teams with equal talent to these warriors? Lol for real? Lol
    Magic's Lakers came close but really, not in the modern era.

    Kareem
    Magic
    Worthy
    Scott
    A.C. Green

    That was very talented but they also dealt with a tonful in Bird's Celtics as well.

  10. #190
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    Yeah and I mean that's a great three but green and Scott vs igu and Draymond? Naw.

  11. #191
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    KD a boss man

  12. #192
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    He ain't magic or probably even Kareem by the show time days but he's way too good to be joining a 70 win squad. Mentally he's weak and the reason he never won without the super warriors was because of the same reason he joined that team in the first place. Mental toughness and belief in what he's doing.

    To me it's like if Jordan quit the bulls to join the Pistons.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunkapolooza View Post
    He ain't magic or probably even Kareem by the show time days but he's way too good to be joining a 70 win squad. Mentally he's weak and the reason he never won without the super warriors was because of the same reason he joined that team in the first place. Mental toughness and belief in what he's doing.

    To me it's like if Jordan quit the bulls to join the Pistons.


    I think we're all just holding him too high as a player. Comparing him to Jordan is laughable. He had chances to win, he's simply not wired that way, or good enough to do it without 70+ win help.

    The rage needs to stop. History will always remember him as the guy that won on a team where he wasn't really needed. That money spent else where would've got GS more than enough to win the last 2 titles.

    My only gripe at this point is how predictable the league is currently.

  14. #194
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    May be it's just me and i'm not saying this to justify Durants ***** move to GSW. It is definetly a ***** move.

    But if Durant not joined them, and lets say Barnes signs with GSW again or a player that caliber, i don't think the warriors win another title against LeBron. LeBron completely got under their skin in 2016, and if they've won in 2107 i don't think Kyrie leaves too. This years Houston could eliminate them too.

    Even if Durant stayed in OKC they could have a legit chance to beat the warriors. But i'm not going to get angry on KD just because he left cause i don't think anybody should be blamed for not wanting to play with RWB.

    That 73 wins made GSW seem a little better than they actually are. Now i am going to hide somewhere, the bashing is coming.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by basketfan4life View Post
    May be it's just me and i'm not saying this to justify Durants ***** move to GSW. It is definetly a ***** move.

    But if Durant not joined them, and lets say Barnes signs with GSW again or a player that caliber, i don't think the warriors win another title against LeBron. LeBron completely got under their skin in 2016, and if they've won in 2107 i don't think Kyrie leaves too. This years Houston could eliminate them too.

    Even if Durant stayed in OKC they could have a legit chance to beat the warriors. But i'm not going to get angry on KD just because he left cause i don't think anybody should be blamed for not wanting to play with RWB.

    That 73 wins made GSW seem a little better than they actually are. Now i am going to hide somewhere, the bashing is coming.
    I don't know, the Warriors were great before Durant joined. Forget the 73-9 record, they were great and one of the things people forget is how good their bench was. Iggy, Barbosa, Livingston (still killing it with them), Mo Buckets, that bench combined with one of the "Big Three" was pretty good. And with KD that's one of the things they gave up.
    Miami HEAT

    I only post when it's playoffs time

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