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Thread: 2018-19 Draft

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDish87 View Post
    i think you are missing the fact that we dont believe Rozier or Morris are good fits, its really as simple as we dont need them. Like I said its more imporatnt to keep 2 of our free aent shooters between Reddick, Belli, and Illy while Fultz steps into a much larger role and we get a rookie scale deal with whoever we take at 10. Why rent Rozier and Morris when they wont make much impact overall?
    But you can keep your shooters and add them. The argument that having good, playoff experienced veterans is not going to help is laughable.

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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Definitely don't think it's unfair, but your hitting right on my argument. If we miss, this takes us out of max space in 2019 and has luxury tax implications. It's one of those deals what quickly makes sense, but the deeper you look into it, both teams are better off staying put.

    The better draft rumor(s) to talk about is 2 and 5 are on the table; Boston is interest in Mo Bamba to a high level and are looking to make a deal from whats reported.

    Sacramento at 2 wants young players, Dallas at 5 wants playoff ready players.

    Brown/Tatum; Oje/Yabu; Top 5 protect their own 2019 pick or becomes Bostons own; 27 for 2 work?
    Morris; Brown; 27 for 5?
    We don't need to get to 2, there's no need to spend the extra assets to get that pick.

    #5 is interesting, but I'd pretty much only be willing to offer Brown - nothing else.

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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    You need to read up on how the cap works. That is all...
    There;s literally been dozens of Philly writers talking about this and laying out almost the exact same thing.

    All I'm getting from you is you thing gutting the roster and adding two rental players that overacheived is a great move. Even another Celtics fan disagreed with you.

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  4. #79
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    i personally love Luka Doncic I love this kids moxy, his competitiveness and his overall game. Dude is great. My biggest question mark for him is his lateral quickness. He doesnt seem like the fastest or quickest guy, at times he looks slow footed. Idk if thats just his game, idk if its the international game but thats my biggest worry with Luka


    First Sim League Title!

  5. #80
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    And last time letís rehash too:

    Celtics benefit: clear $6+ mil in contracts, create space for keeping Marcus Smart/Baynes, add a good bench player, and clear up room that next offseason to retain Irving and extend Brown.

    Sixers benefit: add cap, potentially prevent a max contract, need to gut roster for a max contract, donít have cap flexibility in 2019, trade away 8 years of player control for 1. Because vets.

    PROCESSING

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    No you haven't because you keep skipping and leaving stuff out.
    Sorry, didn't think I had to spell out every move. Logic pretty much explains it when you use it.

    Our Current situation with cap holds looks like this:
    Embiid - $25,250,000
    Covington - $10,464,092
    Bayless - $8,575,916
    Fultz - $8339,880
    Simmons - $6,434,520
    Saric - $2,526,840
    Anderson - $2,516,048
    Korkmaz - $1,740,000
    Holmes - $1,600,520 (team option)
    McConnell - $1,600,520 (team option)
    Luwawu-Cabarrot - $1,446,360
    ACTIVE ROSTER CAP - $70,494,696
    Redick - $27,600,000
    Johnson - $13,200,000
    Belinelli - $1,544,951
    Ilyasova - $1,544,951
    Roster Charge (1 spot) - $831,927
    CAP HOLDS - $44,721,829
    TOTAL CAP ALLOCATION - $115,216,525
    Yup

    So right away we have to renounce everyone for the practical cap space of $30,505,304.

    So if we do this deal, we would have to first renounce JJ Redick; Johnson, Belinelli, and Ilyasova are likely going to be renounced anyways but they don't take us low enough to take on the deal.
    Yes, which you'd have to do all of the above to chase a MAX anyways whether this deal is completed or not. So I don't understand why it's even part of the discussion.

    So if we take on this deal you are suggesting of Rozier/Morris/27 for 10, that means our active cap number becomes $78,920,086, and add in the 3 roster holds at $831,927 and we're at $81,415,867. Let's say we manage to find someone to take Bayless+23 for the rights to a player so we don't have money tied to anyone. Active cap + holds would become $73,671,878. That's still almost $4mil short of Paul Georges max contract. Accounting for holds that would mean trading out Anderson, Korkmaz, TLC without bringing a single dollar back in, to take us to $70,465,251. We would still be short.
    Yes. It would be fairly easy to trade sophomore first round picks for at worst a 2nd round pick and take no salary. Trading those 3 is simple...But you can actually keep Anderson (as long as the target isn't Bron). These deals don't need to be completed until a commitment is made by the Free Agent - see Hayward signing and then C's trading Bradley after the fact to make the cap space. So up to this point you don't need to trade anyone until you have a commitment. If you get one - these 3 will be traded easily.

    So at that point we have 0 chance at LeBron because without a dramatic salary cutting move (trading Covington/Fultz without bringing back a single contract). We also massively depleted our roster for PG13 because we would have to not pick up the options on Holmes and McConnell walk.
    Untrue. You can have a comittment from a Free Agent and then clear the space. No dramatic moves needed.

    Let's say George commits. He's willing to become a Sixer. His number is $30.3M on a 4year max

    Numbers assume #22 and Bayless traded draft night in salary dump (smart move either way IMO)

    Embiid - $25,250,000
    Covington - $10,464,092
    Fultz - $8339,880
    Simmons - $6,434,520
    Morris - $5,250,000
    Rozier - $3,050,390
    Saric - $2,526,840
    Holmes - $1,600,520 (team option pick up)
    McConnell - $1,600,520 (team option pick up)

    + 2 roster holds = $96,605,616


    Trade for 2nd round picks
    Anderson - $2,516,048
    Korkmaz - $1,740,000
    Luwawu-Cabarrot - $1,446,360

    And what hurts even more is if you do all that work and you don't get one of those max contracts. Because if you do all that work and neither come (I get you would wait to know one of them is coming before doing one of those deals) would leave us with:
    The only work done to that point would be trading #10, #22 and Bayless and getting Rozier and Morris.

    Simmons - Rozier - Fultz
    ???
    Covington
    Saric - Morris
    Embiid

    And that's it. Nothing else.
    Add in Holmes, McConnell, Korkmaz, TLC, Anderson cause you don't have to move any of them until you have a commitment.


    And best case you are likely looking at:
    Simmons - Rozier - ???
    Fultz (if good with the shoulder) - ??? - ???
    George - ??? - ????
    Saric - Morris - ???
    Embiid - ??? - Boldin
    Add in Holmes, McConnell, JJ can be re-signed. Ily and Beli could even be signed to minimum contracts.

    Eh. That's not getting much further than we did this year TBH.
    Simmons - Rozier - McConnell
    Redick/Fultz (if good with the shoulder)/Belinelli
    George - Morris- ????
    Saric - Ilyasova- ???
    Embiid - Holmes- Boldin

    That's an ECF finals team with LeBron out west. Without a doubt. Clearly better than last years team. How can you even argue otherwise?
    On the flip, we could be talking about doing the following:

    Simmons - Fultz - TJ
    JJ - Belinelli - TLC - Korkmaz
    Geroge - Covington - Anderson
    Saric - Bridges - Ilyasova
    Embiid - Min FA - Boldin
    Above roster has a much better bench. Roster above will go further than this one.



    That's assuming you can use a late 1st and a salary dump to bring back 1st round contracts.
    Why wouldn't first rounders now and Sophmore former first rounders with upside not bring in a first?

    It's funny that you say that because we're the team with the flat out max space and a top 10 pick this year and you.....aren't.
    Great. We're still the better team with multiple first next year and plenty of assets.
    Last edited by Oakmont_4; 06-13-2018 at 12:09 PM.

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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    There;s literally been dozens of Philly writers talking about this and laying out almost the exact same thing.

    All I'm getting from you is you thing gutting the roster and adding two rental players that overacheived is a great move. Even another Celtics fan disagreed with you.
    Losing Korkmaz and TLC is gutting the roster? Can you even read?

    Me an HPF disagree quite often. We're both adept at how the cap works...He pointed out flaws in your mock as well. Me and HPF see things differently, there's nothing wrong with that. He also said it was a fair trade - something you've done nothing but scoff at and make ridiculous and false remarks like the second sentence of this post.

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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    And last time letís rehash too:

    Celtics benefit: clear $6+ mil in contracts, create space for keeping Marcus Smart/Baynes, add a good bench player, and clear up room that next offseason to retain Irving and extend Brown.
    The benefit to the C's is more in breaking up a log jam of roster minutes we currently have if Smart is brought back. I have no fears about going into the luxury tax and neither does this ownership group. To compete with GS it's going to be a requirement. So might want to get on that. We can retain all of the said player (Rozier, Baynes, Smart and Irving) without doing this trade. We can't however make NBA games longer to carve out enough minute for everyone.

    Sixers benefit: add cap, potentially prevent a max contract, need to gut roster for a max contract, donít have cap flexibility in 2019, trade away 8 years of player control for 1. Because vets.
    1. Not adding any cap that can't be fixed (hence doesn't make it impossible to sign a max)
    2. No gutting of roster unless losing TLC and Korkmaz is gutting a roster - 2 players you even said didn't mind seeing go.
    3. Still have cap flex in 2019 because Morris and Rozier are both Free Agents
    4. Yes. Experience in playoffs is huge. It's why PHI lost in 5 games. It's why BOS couldn't topple CLE.

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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivera View Post
    i personally love Luka Doncic I love this kids moxy, his competitiveness and his overall game. Dude is great. My biggest question mark for him is his lateral quickness. He doesnt seem like the fastest or quickest guy, at times he looks slow footed. Idk if thats just his game, idk if its the international game but thats my biggest worry with Luka
    That's everyone's biggest concern. Although his shot selection is another one. I suppose he can fix this but for a guy who shoots close to 60% from 2pt and close to 30% from 3pt, half his FG attempts probably shouldn't be 3pt. He also might be a bit turnover prone as well.

    But overall, he was basically just as impressive as Ayton and Bagley if you adjust for minutes per game and he did it in a tougher league, so he has that going for him. He was less efficient, but we are comparing him to bigs and as I mentioned, he shot way too many threes which brought down his efficiency. He also fits today's NBA of a playmaking wing with above average size so he has that going for him as well.

    I won't blame Phoenix for taking Ayton first overall, but the upside of Doncic is higher IMO. Probably a bit riskier though due to the lateral quickness. Fits into the stereotype too of European prospects who have success in Europe. Doncic with those lateral quickness concerns will be defended against the best athletes in the world who have quickness and length which will be a hurdle for him whereas Ayton doesn't face those questions nearly as much since he'll be bigger and quicker than most guys who will be guarding him.
    Last edited by Wrigheyes4MVP; 06-13-2018 at 12:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  10. #85
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    Oak, War ... I think it's not working. You are talking in circles and are not going to agree.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    But you can keep your shooters and add them. The argument that having good, playoff experienced veterans is not going to help is laughable.
    we have good playoff experienced vets though and again why should we give up the 10th pick to rent 2 players we likely have no interest in retaining?
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  12. #87
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    Shams Charania@ShamsCharania
    Sources: NBA Draft lottery teams were informed Wednesday that Missouriís Michael Porter Jr., a projected high-lottery draft pick, canceled second Pro Day workout Friday because of hip spasms and would undergo tests.

    Never Forget

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterNRoss View Post
    Shams Charania@ShamsCharania
    Sources: NBA Draft lottery teams were informed Wednesday that Missouriís Michael Porter Jr., a projected high-lottery draft pick, canceled second Pro Day workout Friday because of hip spasms and would undergo tests.
    Comes out right after a report about the Kings being interested in taking him at #2. Can't imagine this bodes well for that, but who knows.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLynn943 View Post
    Comes out right after a report about the Kings being interested in taking him at #2. Can't imagine this bodes well for that, but who knows.
    https://syndication.bleacherreport.c...kings.amp.html

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    We don't need to get to 2, there's no need to spend the extra assets to get that pick.

    #5 is interesting, but I'd pretty much only be willing to offer Brown - nothing else.
    I donít see Dallas doing that. I also wouldnít believe the rumor that Dallas is willing to trade 5 for playoffs ready players. There is tons of smoke being blown this time of year. Iíd be shocked if Dallas traded that pick for anything that wasnít a clear win for them.

    Iíve seen people kicking around the idea of Mavs trading #5/Wes Matthews for #8/Love. Dallas is rumored to like Wendell Carter who they could easily get at 8.

    Another one Iíve read is #5/Wes for #7/#22 from the Bulls.

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