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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    Yes, food companies should be forced to list any and all effects of their products, and schools should be giving classes (health maybe?) that explain what sugar, refined carbs, and every other ingredient does to the body. But, it then is up to the person. Like to me, inhaling smoke into your lungs is an obviously bad thing. I don't need someone to explain that to me. Inhaling 30 lbs of grease and sugar a week is bad. I don't need that explained to me. At some point a person needs to be held accountable for their decisions.

    I do agree, food companies need to be upfront about what their product is and does. The rest is up to you.
    But you don't need someone to explain smoking is bad to you because people have already explained to you that smoking is bad for you societally and to your parents. At one point people did need to tell everyone that smoking was bad for them, because cigarette companies said it wasn't bad for 50 years straight. That is what food companies are doing now. Food companies are saying sugar isn't bad for you, that eating a diet of their products isn't unhealthy.

    The flawed assumption people make is that we're talking about candy bars and soda and things that are obviously unhealthy for us. That is not the problem. The problem is virtually all foods nowadays have added sugars in them. So even the stuff people would think are healthy (or at least not unhealthy), are in fact unhealthy.

    The idea that Americans don't have personal responsibility when it comes to taking care of their bodies doesn't reflect our actions. Americans workout more today than we ever have since they started keeping track of it. Obviously, we are motivated to try to stay healthy, more so than previous generations, but one of the big things that has changed is our diets, and more importantly, what goes into our food.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    The parents should be helping the children in that scenario. Obviously pizza isn't especially health and any adult should know as much. Pack the kid a reasonable lunch and avoid the cafeteria crap all together.
    Just the parents? The school has NO responsibility to ensure kids aren't eating unhealthy foods? They have no responsibility to actually serve them healthy food?

    Obviously every adult should know pizza is unhealthy, well that's apparently not true because the food company didn't know (or they're lying), because they argued the exact opposite.


    Also consider the long term effects, if kids aren't being taught what unhealthy foods are in schools they're going to keep eating that stuff as adults. It's the same as with smoking. One of the big things we did to stop smoking from spreading is to prohibit advertising of cigarettes to children.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    But you don't need someone to explain smoking is bad to you because people have already explained to you that smoking is bad for you societally and to your parents. At one point people did need to tell everyone that smoking was bad for them, because cigarette companies said it wasn't bad for 50 years straight. That is what food companies are doing now. Food companies are saying sugar isn't bad for you, that eating a diet of their products isn't unhealthy.

    The flawed assumption people make is that we're talking about candy bars and soda and things that are obviously unhealthy for us. That is not the problem. The problem is virtually all foods nowadays have added sugars in them. So even the stuff people would think are healthy (or at least not unhealthy), are in fact unhealthy.

    The idea that Americans don't have personal responsibility when it comes to taking care of their bodies doesn't reflect our actions. Americans workout more today than we ever have since they started keeping track of it. Obviously, we are motivated to try to stay healthy, more so than previous generations, but one of the big things that has changed is our diets, and more importantly, what goes into our food.
    I never needed anyone to explain to me that smoke entering my lungs is bad. I knew that at 10 years old. Watching my grandparents and aunts cough their way through smoking told me that, I didn't need big daddy to give me proof. I love you valade, I do. But you play the victim mentality too much imo.

    I wasn't referring to sweets. Teaching young people refined sugars and certain types of fats in excess is terrible for you is easy to do. Hell if you are so hellbent on helping those that won't help themselves, make all government allotted food distributions for public assistance healthy food. See if that changes anything..

    I taught myself nutrition. Why? Because if we want things in this world, we have to do it ourselves. I get that lying outright shouldn't be accepted. But you can only lead a horse to water. We are at the HEIGHT of nutritional awareness today. Yet, our population gets fatter by the year. At some point, the finger needs to point the other way, at you.

    Obesity and prescrip pill abuse are the new killers. People get fatter by the year, despite more and more information being available. Sure, people "workout" more. Well, that is because industry has shifted indoors, instead of intensive labor jobs (you don't need to workout if you farm, or do construction). At the same time, serving sizes keep rising despite activity shrinking, sugar intake (sugar is as addictive as cocaine, yet it's ignored) continue to rise, and quite frankly, we are so concerned with anything and everything that doesn't include personal accountability. If you are fat, quit blaming everyone. Do some research, toy with different balances of food/exercise. It will work. If you want to sit back and wait for someone to solve your problems, well, you will die an unsatisfied person. When did we shift into this deal where society, corporations, and government, need to hold your hand through life? Corporations want to make money. Small businesses want to make money. If fatty-mcgee wants ice cream, that is what sells. Salad doesn't. Oh well

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I never needed anyone to explain to me that smoke entering my lungs is bad. I knew that at 10 years old. Watching my grandparents and aunts cough their way through smoking told me that, I didn't need big daddy to give me proof. I love you valade, I do. But you play the victim mentality too much imo.

    I wasn't referring to sweets. Teaching young people refined sugars and certain types of fats in excess is terrible for you is easy to do. Hell if you are so hellbent on helping those that won't help themselves, make all government allotted food distributions for public assistance healthy food. See if that changes anything..

    I taught myself nutrition. Why? Because if we want things in this world, we have to do it ourselves. I get that lying outright shouldn't be accepted. But you can only lead a horse to water. We are at the HEIGHT of nutritional awareness today. Yet, our population gets fatter by the year. At some point, the finger needs to point the other way, at you.

    Obesity and prescrip pill abuse are the new killers. People get fatter by the year, despite more and more information being available. Sure, people "workout" more. Well, that is because industry has shifted indoors, instead of intensive labor jobs (you don't need to workout if you farm, or do construction). At the same time, serving sizes keep rising despite activity shrinking, sugar intake (sugar is as addictive as cocaine, yet it's ignored) continue to rise, and quite frankly, we are so concerned with anything and everything that doesn't include personal accountability. If you are fat, quit blaming everyone. Do some research, toy with different balances of food/exercise. It will work. If you want to sit back and wait for someone to solve your problems, well, you will die an unsatisfied person. When did we shift into this deal where society, corporations, and government, need to hold your hand through life? Corporations want to make money. Small businesses want to make money. If fatty-mcgee wants ice cream, that is what sells. Salad doesn't. Oh well
    Because it really irritates me when people give a pass to corporations for lying to us and then blame the people they lie to.

    And you can say the same thing you're saying right now, that it's all everybody's personal fault and there is nothing else that goes into why Americans are fat all you want. My point is: better get used to it because your empty platitudes aren't changing anything. It's as useless as the war on drugs motto "don't do drugs".

    In regards to leadership, if you actually want something to change you have to recognize that whatever solution you are employing isn't working. And if your only solution to America's obesity problem is to call people fat and say "you shouldn't be fat", you're just as much a part of the problem as any of the fat people you're criticizing.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Because it really irritates me when people give a pass to corporations for lying to us and then blame the people they lie to.

    And you can say the same thing you're saying right now, that it's all everybody's personal fault and there is nothing else that goes into why Americans are fat all you want. My point is: better get used to it because your empty platitudes aren't changing anything. It's as useless as the war on drugs motto "don't do drugs".

    In regards to leadership, if you actually want something to change you have to recognize that whatever solution you are employing isn't working. And if your only solution to America's obesity problem is to call people fat and say "you shouldn't be fat", you're just as much a part of the problem as any of the fat people you're criticizing.
    I get that is irritates you. I am not giving "them" a pass, but they will sell what makes money, period. Their advertising perhaps needs to be fact checked and called out more. By all means, destroy false advertising. But wrapping up time and money into fighting a company that claims tomato sauce is a vegetable is usually not worth it. It starts with educating people when young. Like seriously, does anyone need calculus after high school, outside of like 0.0004% of the population? No. They don't. Does anyone need to learn nutrition, how to do taxes, how credit works? Yes, 100% of us do. Shift education.

    When it all comes down to it, we are responsible for ourselves, and then our kids to a certain age/stage. We just can't depend on others (whatever that is, govt, schools, etc) to keep us healthy. Hell people are told by their doctors everyday to stop eating so much and exercise, and they ignore it.

    My solution to obesity is education, and then leaving it in people's hands. Companies WON'T stop selling crappy food if people keep buying it. Guess what, eating healthy is boring, it's hard, it takes work. Alas, people are generally lazy.

    Again, we are at the absolute height, to date, of nutritional awareness. Yet we get fatter by the year. If you want to take the communist approach and make peoples nutritional decisions for them, by all means, get at it.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I never needed anyone to explain to me that smoke entering my lungs is bad. I knew that at 10 years old. Watching my grandparents and aunts cough their way through smoking told me that, I didn't need big daddy to give me proof. I love you valade, I do. But you play the victim mentality too much imo.

    I wasn't referring to sweets. Teaching young people refined sugars and certain types of fats in excess is terrible for you is easy to do. Hell if you are so hellbent on helping those that won't help themselves, make all government allotted food distributions for public assistance healthy food. See if that changes anything..

    I taught myself nutrition. Why? Because if we want things in this world, we have to do it ourselves. I get that lying outright shouldn't be accepted. But you can only lead a horse to water. We are at the HEIGHT of nutritional awareness today. Yet, our population gets fatter by the year. At some point, the finger needs to point the other way, at you.

    Obesity and prescrip pill abuse are the new killers. People get fatter by the year, despite more and more information being available. Sure, people "workout" more. Well, that is because industry has shifted indoors, instead of intensive labor jobs (you don't need to workout if you farm, or do construction). At the same time, serving sizes keep rising despite activity shrinking, sugar intake (sugar is as addictive as cocaine, yet it's ignored) continue to rise, and quite frankly, we are so concerned with anything and everything that doesn't include personal accountability. If you are fat, quit blaming everyone. Do some research, toy with different balances of food/exercise. It will work. If you want to sit back and wait for someone to solve your problems, well, you will die an unsatisfied person. When did we shift into this deal where society, corporations, and government, need to hold your hand through life? Corporations want to make money. Small businesses want to make money. If fatty-mcgee wants ice cream, that is what sells. Salad doesn't. Oh well
    I agree and I hope fatty- mcgee doesn't die young but if he does I hope he at least dies happy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I get that is irritates you. I am not giving "them" a pass, but they will sell what makes money, period. Their advertising perhaps needs to be fact checked and called out more. By all means, destroy false advertising. But wrapping up time and money into fighting a company that claims tomato sauce is a vegetable is usually not worth it. It starts with educating people when young. Like seriously, does anyone need calculus after high school, outside of like 0.0004% of the population? No. They don't. Does anyone need to learn nutrition, how to do taxes, how credit works? Yes, 100% of us do. Shift education.

    When it all comes down to it, we are responsible for ourselves, and then our kids to a certain age/stage. We just can't depend on others (whatever that is, govt, schools, etc) to keep us healthy. Hell people are told by their doctors everyday to stop eating so much and exercise, and they ignore it.

    My solution to obesity is education, and then leaving it in people's hands. Companies WON'T stop selling crappy food if people keep buying it. Guess what, eating healthy is boring, it's hard, it takes work. Alas, people are generally lazy.

    Again, we are at the absolute height, to date, of nutritional awareness. Yet we get fatter by the year. If you want to take the communist approach and make peoples nutritional decisions for them, by all means, get at it.
    First Bolded: If you're not going to do anything about stuff like that then you are giving them a pass.

    Second Bolded: But schools are teaching nutritional education, the problem is how much are kids going to listen to a teacher give a class on what is and isn't healthy and then go to the lunchroom and see a sign that says "healthy foods" with pizza under it? Or walk around the school and see vending machines of candy and soda everywhere? Or watches TV and sees ads specifically targeted for them to buy unhealthy food?

    Education isn't enough, because education is going to lose to the volume of advertising kids get to eat the bad food from everywhere. Vending machines and advertising signs from food companies have skyrocketed at schools.

    We need to stop food companies from advertising to kids (or at least reduce it), stop putting vending machines in schools and stop letting food companies tell kids that pizza is a vegetable.

    If you look at the difference between countries that are in shape and ours the primary difference is that those countries teach their children good eating habits, both at home and in school.

    And the idea that Americans are just lazy and fat and it's not the food companies fault in any way for that is just lazy analysis. If that's true then explain how come every country where we've introduced western style food/candy/fast food/etc. they get fatter? Okinawa was introduced to western style food culture and their weight skyrocketed. They went from one of the most fit areas to one of the least almost overnight.

    At what point do we say "every country ever faced with this food has no self control" before we realize maybe that's human nature and we need to do something to combat it instead of saying the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

    Because simply saying "take some personal responsibility" when it comes to eating healthy is about as effective as saying "take some personal responsibility" to someone who is addicted to heroine. Your success rate for rehabilitation will be very low in both cases.

  8. #68
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    Here are some decent articles on the rising obesity in Japan, a country known for their industriousness and discipline:

    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...rn-style-food/

    So what’s going on? According to Gozoh Tsujimoto, director of the Drug Discovery Research Center at Kyoto University, there is a straightforward explanation for the expansion of waistlines in Japan: Westernization.
    “Lifestyle factors have become Westernized,” he told me in an email interview. “Especially, food has become Westernized — and mainly high-calorie and high fat.”


    https://www.nwitimes.com/niche/get-h...c9b8b800b.html

    Experts blame the [US] servicemen for bringing hamburgers, French fries and canned meat to the island earlier than the rest of Japan.

    Increased availability of high-fat diets and sedentary lifestyles are producing a 10 percent a year increase in obesity and diabetes worldwide, and rates are rising even faster in some developing countries, according to the World Health Organization.



    So countries all over the world are getting fatter and fatter and the one common denominator at every place where obesity is rising is the proliferation of Western food. But yeah, it's not the food.

  9. #69
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    It's how much of the food you eat. It's called gluttony and it's supposed to be a bad thing. Now people with little control blame big business, the government, and beauty standards because they're so pathetic.

  10. #70
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    So many men. So many people missing the point. The pageant is now being run by women. This is how they want the women to be judged, by inner beauty. FWIW, traditional beauty pageants are ridiculous anyhow. It's not a talent or a skill to be attractive. You're born with it.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    So many men. So many people missing the point. The pageant is now being run by women. This is how they want the women to be judged, by inner beauty. FWIW, traditional beauty pageants are ridiculous anyhow. It's not a talent or a skill to be attractive. You're born with it.
    Yeah. Not to mention that beauty is a subjective thing. We all find different races, attributes, complexions, and so on attractive.

    I think the hasty conclusion that this equals fat chicks is pretty hilarious.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Just the parents?
    No, that's not what I said. Though I do believe that they should be a child's first and main resource when it comes to diet (amongst other things).

    The school has NO responsibility to ensure kids aren't eating unhealthy foods? They have no responsibility to actually serve them healthy food?
    I wouldn't say they have NO responsibility at all. I just wouldn't blindly count on them to provide the proper sort of nutrition for my child.

    Obviously every adult should know pizza is unhealthy, well that's apparently not true because the food company didn't know (or they're lying), because they argued the exact opposite.
    Of course they were lying. Come on now.

    Also consider the long term effects, if kids aren't being taught what unhealthy foods are in schools they're going to keep eating that stuff as adults. It's the same as with smoking. One of the big things we did to stop smoking from spreading is to prohibit advertising of cigarettes to children.
    Again, the brunt of the responsibility should be on the parents. Although yes, it would be great if schools taught children more real life skills such as how to have a proper balanced diet, how to manage your money, how to file your own taxes, etc.

    I see fast food and smoking as two completely different scenarios that should be dealt with in different ways.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Because it really irritates me when people give a pass to corporations for lying to us and then blame the people they lie to.

    And you can say the same thing you're saying right now, that it's all everybody's personal fault and there is nothing else that goes into why Americans are fat all you want. My point is: better get used to it because your empty platitudes aren't changing anything. It's as useless as the war on drugs motto "don't do drugs".

    In regards to leadership, if you actually want something to change you have to recognize that whatever solution you are employing isn't working. And if your only solution to America's obesity problem is to call people fat and say "you shouldn't be fat", you're just as much a part of the problem as any of the fat people you're criticizing.
    This seems more than a bit overdramatic (as well as disingenuous). I don't think anyone is saying we should be fat shaming people in to losing weight, just that people need to have some personal responsibility.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    This seems more than a bit overdramatic (as well as disingenuous). I don't think anyone is saying we should be fat shaming people in to losing weight, just that people need to have some personal responsibility.
    The other thing here is that eating can be an addiction. Some of these people need real help, just like a drug addict or smoker. I have had a couple of family members have the gastric bypass surgery, before any thought was put into the psychological effects of it. The problem is that they were both addicted to food and replaced that addiction with a new one (drugs or alcohol) since they could no longer overeat.

    We're way off topic here, but I do agree with the person that said that the food companies should hold at least some accountability. Labeling foods would be a good start. In Canada, at restaurants they now have to list the calories of each item on the menu. Not perfect, but it's a start.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    This seems more than a bit overdramatic (as well as disingenuous). I don't think anyone is saying we should be fat shaming people in to losing weight, just that people need to have some personal responsibility.
    It's just as empty though. So we have a problem of obesity in the US and your solution is to say "be more responsible". How effect do you think that solution is going to be?

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