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Thread: NBA Hard Cap?

  1. #61
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    Remove individual player caps and introduce a hard cap. Things would be a lot more interesting than watching the Hangover IV

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    There is NO WAY the NBAPA allows the money split to go down on their side by 25%+ with a $100M hard cap. It would have to be around $130M to get the money split right to start.
    Sounds about right. It would be renegotiated with each CBA. I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted upwards $150 million to start with.

  3. #63
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    I'm against all cap systems, and believe league parity is best increased by having a free market.

  4. #64
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    If they can agree to a Hard Cap it will be 5 years from now at the next CBA

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Because it WON'T be a $100M cap, it will more likely be $130M+ because the CBA money split isn't going to go down.

    And it's more about how regardless of the rules the better run teams tend to win.
    you are all hung up on the cap... it is just a way to administer the distribution of the BRI share for the players... like I said before the same amount gets paid out to the players each year based on BRI... their contracted salaries are nothing more than shares to allocate the pool of BRI. Set the cap at whatever you want... it is the least important part of a hard cap.

  6. #66
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    Yes, the league should go to a hard cap. The current NBA Salary Cap structure is very flawed and needs significant reforms. Setting a hard cap would be better than the status quo of being able to go above the cap to re sign your own players, and then having to pay a tax for doing so. It would be far less complicated if the league made the tax line the hard cap. For 17-18' season, the luxury tax was set at $119 million.

    But while we are on the subject, there is a lot more than league can do with the cap and how contracts are structured. The NBA should get rid of maximum salaries, as they are bad for several reasons. One is they put a cap on how much the best players can earn. The NBA has made silly exceptions to the max deal, offering things such as "super max" if players meet certain requirements, but it doesn't do the best players justice. Lebron James deserves a lot more than he is allowed to make for example.

    Another negative effect of the max is that any all star level, or near all star level, player uses it as a launch point in salary negotiations. It leads players in general getting overpaid and wastes cap space. The cap exploding didn't cause teams to overpay players, it just gave them a better opportunity to do so. Teams were already overpaying players because they handed then a negotiating tool with max salaries. Here is some of the contracts that have been signed since 2015 (and many were considered terrible at the time)

    2015
    Marc Gasol-5 years $110 million
    Kevin Love-5 years $110 million
    Greg Monroe-3 years $50 million
    Brandon Knight-5 years $70 million

    2016
    Bradley Beal-5 years $128 million
    Timofey Mozgov-4 years $64 million
    DeMar DeRozan-5 years $145 million
    Andre Drummond-5 years $130 million
    Nicolas Batum-5 years $120 million
    Hassan Whiteside-4 years $98 million
    Chandler Parsons-4 years $94 million
    Evan Turner-4 years $70 million
    Mike Conley-5 years $153 million
    Joakim Noah-4 years $72 million
    Luol Deng-4 years $72 million
    Bismack Biyombo-4 years $72 million
    Ryan Anderson-4 years $80 million

    2017
    Kyle Lowry-3 years $100 million
    George Hill-3 years $57 million
    Jrue Holiday-5 years $125 million
    Tim Hardaway Jr-4 years $71 million
    Otto Porter Jr-4 years $104 million
    Blake Griffin-5 years $173 million
    Paul Millsap-3 years $90 million

    While not all of those deals were considered to be terrible at the time, the majority of them were. The NBA wastes a lot of cap space overpaying for players because they don't allow the market to accurately dictate player salaries. Getting rid of max salaries would go a long way toward that and would allow the real stars in this league to make the money they deserve. For example, Lebron would probably get a contract starting between $40-50 million if the league had a hard cap of $119 million (he's making $33.3 million this season). The NBA is only popular because of the best talent, they deserve the most.

    Lastly, the NBA should eliminate restricted free agency. Setting a hard cap would almost certainly mean the end of this because teams would not longer be able to go above the cap to retain their players. Restricted free agency is another way the league wastes cap space. Teams are forced to overpay for restricted free agents in fear that the team who holds the rights will match. In return for abolishing restricted free agency, the league could make rookie contracts one year longer, making them 5 years in total. After the 5th year, the player would become a free agent, capable of signing anywhere (assuming the teams have the cap).

    So yes, a hard cap (tax line), elimination of max contracts, and abolishing restricted free agency would all go a long way toward cleaning up the league's convoluted and unnecessary salary cap structure. Hopefully we can see all of those things done in the next few years. The league can't implement these changes tomorrow, but maybe in next 5-10 years (no NBA player is under contract for 23-24'). So maybe sometime after 2023 we could see something like this.
    Last edited by TylerSL; 06-02-2018 at 02:38 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I'm against all cap systems, and believe league parity is best increased by having a free market.
    While not a total free market, having a cap is better for parity. Without it, a team like the Hawks could never compete with the Lakers. I proposed making current luxury tax line the hard cap, as well as the elimination of max contracts and restricted free agency. Teams would have $119 million, or whatever the luxury tax is set at, to build a 15 man squad. The market would dictate the rest.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKLYNpigeon View Post
    so what if you have 5 allstars who all take less to play with each other and they build a Super Team?

    do we change the rules again?
    Thatís completely pointless to the discussion. If 5 stars are all willing to take less money to join up and create a super team, you canít stop that with any reasonable money system. The only way to prevent that is to have something ridiculous like a yearly league wide draft or the commissioner gets to veto free agents signings or something like that.

    Under the current rules thereís nothing that prevents Lebron from taking the MLE and going to golden state. And Paul George could then sign with them for the vet minimum too. So that scenario really has nothing to do with this discussion because it could happen regardless of how the league is set up.

    To me, getting rid of the max contract is the main key. Durant took less money to go to GS, but it wasnít a huge total in the grand scheme of things. If say Philly, who had a ton of cap that season could have offered him $10M per year more than golden state, it may have been a different decision for him.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I'm against all cap systems, and believe league parity is best increased by having a free market.
    No draft, no cap, no cba, no league, at-will employment?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Thatís completely pointless to the discussion. If 5 stars are all willing to take less money to join up and create a super team, you canít stop that with any reasonable money system. The only way to prevent that is to have something ridiculous like a yearly league wide draft or the commissioner gets to veto free agents signings or something like that.

    Under the current rules thereís nothing that prevents Lebron from taking the MLE and going to golden state. And Paul George could then sign with them for the vet minimum too. So that scenario really has nothing to do with this discussion because it could happen regardless of how the league is set up.

    To me, getting rid of the max contract is the main key. Durant took less money to go to GS, but it wasnít a huge total in the grand scheme of things. If say Philly, who had a ton of cap that season could have offered him $10M per year more than golden state, it may have been a different decision for him.
    I don't think it is pointless ... it illustrates that a hard cap won't keep super-teams from happening.

    In fact a hard cap will make the draft even more important, and will encourage tanking even more.

    Having said that I have no issue with a hard cap, I just don't think it will "fix" the NBA

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    No draft, no cap, no cba, no league, at-will employment?
    Still a draft, CBA etc. Just a fixed amount of team control after draft, and then open employment from all 30 teams.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Still a draft, CBA etc. Just a fixed amount of team control after draft, and then open employment from all 30 teams.
    See, I would go the other way. Hard cap, no guaranteed contracts, no max contracts, no minimum contract length, no maximum length, no draft, 20 man rosters.

  13. #73
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    There's always going to be a draft. It will never go away.

    If you want a hard cap certain things would need to happen:
    ~You would need to find a way to take contracts off the cap if something happened that altered that players career.
    ~Players won't give up having guaranteed contracts.
    ---So these two things together you could do a situation like baseball. A designation for assignment, DFA, so when a player gets a DFA either a team with the cap space would have to claim that player or if they pass that and get released they get their contract off the books. But in either way the players get their money.

    ~Max contracts will have to go away. That poses problems to players like Barnes, Kemba, etc. The guys not worth a max but got them anyways. But overall I think it would create a better contract balance in terms of guys getting what they are actually worth.

    ~No more free agent holds on contracts. The RFA would have to go away and either do a tag system like NFL or arbitration like MLB. I think some type of combination would work. I think a "rights of first refusal" tag would work. It's a 2+1 deal based on the average of the 10th-20th highest paid at the position. The +1 is a player option. If you do this and some team offers this player a higher contract, you can either match, or get their first for letting them walk.

    ~1:1 NBA:G-League matched teams. 5 protected players in the G-League.

    ~Tied to that, draft becomes 3 rounds.

    ~Contract increases would either have to remain flat, or increases are tied to what the cap increase percent actually is. So instead of giving a guy 8% increases every year, it goes up dependent on cap. So if from year 2-3 of the contract the cap goes up 2%, his raise is 2%. If it's a 5% increase, it's a 5% increase to the contract.

    PROCESSING

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    There's always going to be a draft. It will never go away.

    If you want a hard cap certain things would need to happen:
    ~You would need to find a way to take contracts off the cap if something happened that altered that players career.
    ~Players won't give up having guaranteed contracts.
    ---So these two things together you could do a situation like baseball. A designation for assignment, DFA, so when a player gets a DFA either a team with the cap space would have to claim that player or if they pass that and get released they get their contract off the books. But in either way the players get their money.

    ~Max contracts will have to go away. That poses problems to players like Barnes, Kemba, etc. The guys not worth a max but got them anyways. But overall I think it would create a better contract balance in terms of guys getting what they are actually worth.

    ~No more free agent holds on contracts. The RFA would have to go away and either do a tag system like NFL or arbitration like MLB. I think some type of combination would work. I think a "rights of first refusal" tag would work. It's a 2+1 deal based on the average of the 10th-20th highest paid at the position. The +1 is a player option. If you do this and some team offers this player a higher contract, you can either match, or get their first for letting them walk.

    ~1:1 NBA:G-League matched teams. 5 protected players in the G-League.

    ~Tied to that, draft becomes 3 rounds.

    ~Contract increases would either have to remain flat, or increases are tied to what the cap increase percent actually is. So instead of giving a guy 8% increases every year, it goes up dependent on cap. So if from year 2-3 of the contract the cap goes up 2%, his raise is 2%. If it's a 5% increase, it's a 5% increase to the contract.
    Guaranteed contracts could go away, it's a key factor in the NFL hard cap, and the players could be incentivized into accepting it. Just like max contracts could go away. But neither is at all likely.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Guaranteed contracts could go away, it's a key factor in the NFL hard cap, and the players could be incentivized into accepting it. Just like max contracts could go away. But neither is at all likely.
    The NFL is moving toward more and more guaranteed money, not less. It's highly unlikely you could offer players anything that would make them give up guaranteed contracts short of like an extra 10% of BRI.

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