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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    Donít compare Dunn to Beverly. Iíve been over this numerous times. In Dunnís 1st legit year playing he put up better numbers than Bev ever has. Itís a lazy comparison. Also
    a typical massive under value from our fans in here. Literally better steals, points, assists in his 1st year than Bev has ever had. Itís not even close IMO
    Ok. Maybe slightly better pat bev? Youíre acting like heís in another stratosphere. You still donít max those guys out or pay huge money. He needs to take a great leap this year to be worth a heavy long term investment.

  2. #62
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    I don't think the Beverley comp is that bad. Dunn might beat him in volume stats though. I think he's become a bit overrated this year just because he wasn't awful like he was last year. Even with the improvement he was inefficient.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Ok. Maybe slightly better pat bev? Youíre acting like heís in another stratosphere. You still donít max those guys out or pay huge money. He needs to take a great leap this year to be worth a heavy long term investment.
    It's just lazy. Dunn at 23 years old averaged (2nd Full Season):

    13.4/4.3/6.0/2.0 in 29.3 MPG in 52 games


    Pat Beverly's best career average per stat category:

    12.2/5.9/4.2/1.6

    Those where in his prime years. That's the best he will ever be. Dunn hasn't even reached anywhere near his peak.

    Jimmy Butler in his 24 year old season averaged (3rd Full Season):

    13.1/4.9/2.6/1.9 in 38.7 MPG in 67 games.

    Draymond Green in his 24 year old season (3rd Full Season):

    11.7/8.2/3.7/1.6/1.6/1.3 in 31.5 MPG in 79 games.

    Victor Oladipo in his 23 year old Season (3rd Full Season):

    16.0/4.8/3.9/1.6/0.8 in 33.0 MPG in 72 games.



    I'm naming Butler/Green/Dipo as comps because they are 3 of the biggest difference makers in the NBA. Only the Warriors would have made the playoffs without Green. Wolves wouldn't have without Butler, as was proven when they nearly missed because he got hurt. The Pacers were 0-7 without Dipo.

    You guys say stop overvaluing our players? I counter with stop undervaluing! Back when Butler was just about to turn the corner from Role player 3 and D, to 2 way all star, you same people wanted to trade him for Melo. I vehemently said that was a bad idea because Butler's value couldn't be measured by scoring alone. He was an elite defender with an improving offensive game. Kris Dunn could easily make a huge jump in the next 2 years, and we only need a slight offensive jump with him. What we need is his elite defense, and that isn't going anywhere.
    Last edited by dabears34ft; 05-25-2018 at 03:32 PM.

  4. #64
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    If Dunn plays low to mid 30 MPG in his 3rd year, he could very well average the same scoring as Dipo in his 3rd year, more rebounds than Jimmy and Dipo in their 3rd years, 8-9 APG, with 2+ SPG. His numbers aren't going to go down when his minutes increase. He's not even close to a finished product. If he became a 17 PPG, 9 APG, 5 RPG, 2 SPG Point Guard, as our 4th option, we are in good *** shape. Year 24, his 3rd season we will see a much better player than last year. By 25 he will hit his physical prime, and have 3 full seasons under his belt. Butler became great at the end of year 3 and in the playoffs that year. Year 4 he took off. Green became great in the playoffs of year 2 and took off in year 3. No reason to be a constant pessimist, and act like Dunn can't be a great NBA player. The trends point to him becoming a legit 2 way player more so than they point to him being a mediocre "Pat Beverly Esque" role player. He's already surpassed Pat Beverly's best possible career numbers!

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mell413 View Post
    I don't think the Beverley comp is that bad. Dunn might beat him in volume stats though. I think he's become a bit overrated this year just because he wasn't awful like he was last year. Even with the improvement he was inefficient.
    This is Deja Vu with Jimmy Butler all over again lol. The PSD Bulls Forum undervalued Butler as a role player 3 and D at best, then he comes in the next year and puts up 20 PPG! I don't expect 20 PPG from Dunn, but i would be happy with 15-17. 15 is highly likely.

  6. #66
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    The nice thing about KD is he just needs to improve his longer midrange shot and 3ball. Everything else is pretty good.

  7. #67
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    Deep breaths dabears....

    Itís not lazy. I said slightly better. And thatís even not that clear cut.

    True or false: Dunn needs to take a major leap offensively and efficiency wise to deserve a huge payday? The answer is obviously true...which was my entire point before you started spazzing out over the pat bev comparison lol.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aapox View Post
    The nice thing about KD is he just needs to improve his longer midrange shot and 3ball. Everything else is pretty good.
    Lol Prolly don't use KD for Kris Dunn! I was confused for 5 seconds hahaha

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    It's just lazy. Dunn at 23 years old averaged (2nd Full Season):

    13.4/4.3/6.0/2.0 in 29.3 MPG in 52 games


    Pat Beverly's best career average per stat category:

    12.2/5.9/4.2/1.6

    Those where in his prime years. That's the best he will ever be. Dunn hasn't even reached anywhere near his peak.

    Jimmy Butler in his 24 year old season averaged (3rd Full Season):

    13.1/4.9/2.6/1.9 in 38.7 MPG in 67 games.

    Draymond Green in his 24 year old season (3rd Full Season):

    11.7/8.2/3.7/1.6/1.6/1.3 in 31.5 MPG in 79 games.

    Victor Oladipo in his 23 year old Season (3rd Full Season):

    16.0/4.8/3.9/1.6/0.8 in 33.0 MPG in 72 games.



    I'm naming Butler/Green/Dipo as comps because they are 3 of the biggest difference makers in the NBA. Only the Warriors would have made the playoffs without Green. Wolves wouldn't have without Butler, as was proven when they nearly missed because he got hurt. The Pacers were 0-7 without Dipo.

    You guys say stop overvaluing our players? I counter with stop undervaluing! Back when Butler was just about to turn the corner from Role player 3 and D, to 2 way all star, you same people wanted to trade him for Melo. I vehemently said that was a bad idea because Butler's value couldn't be measured by scoring alone. He was an elite defender with an improving offensive game. Kris Dunn could easily make a huge jump in the next 2 years, and we only need a slight offensive jump with him. What we need is his elite defense, and that isn't going anywhere.
    Beverley may be a bad comp, but Butler, Draymond, and Dipo are all pretty bad as well. You're only referencing counting stats when comparing these players. The underlying efficiency numbers (TS%, FTr) with Butler and Dipo have always been stronger, regardless of what point in their careers we're talking about. Draymond has been a better defender (DPOY caliber since his 2nd season) than anything Dunn's shown to this point.

    I think you really are just overvaluing him. Calling him an elite defender is probably a stretch too. He's good, fine, solid, whatever. There are maybe a handful of elite defenders in the league (Gobert, Draymond, Drummond, Davis, George, and a few others), but Kris Dunn is not on that list. He's nowhere close to the top 10-20 in most defensive rankings when you look at Drtg, DBPM, DWS, or really anything indicative of a plus defender. It's also a lot harder for a PG to be an elite defender given the talent at the position, the constant switching nowadays, and ticky tack foul calls.

    I don't dislike Dunn, but I'm not really a big fan either. He's pretty meh IMO. If this were a better PG class, I'd be all over taking one to at least push him, but it's pretty much garbage past Sexton and I doubt they're leaning that way either. Who knows, he might be a good player eventually, but there's very little he's shown to this point to make me think that'll be the case.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Deep breaths dabears....

    Itís not lazy. I said slightly better. And thatís even not that clear cut.

    True or false: Dunn needs to take a major leap offensively and efficiency wise to deserve a huge payday? The answer is obviously true...which was my entire point before you started spazzing out over the pat bev comparison lol.
    Lol I'm not spazzing, I'm just saying we undervalue the **** out of our players.

    True or False: People said the same thing about Jimmy Butler after his 3rd year?

    My point is, wait until at least after year 4. Of course Kris Dunn needs to improve on his 1st season and a half of games to deserve a big contract. That's a no **** statement. Why are we even worried about his contract A) when it's not an issue until 2020/21, and B) when he hasn't even been a starter for an entire year. If he sucks the next 2 years, we don't even have to keep him if we don't want, and that just opens up that much more money. We are going to have big money spent Lavine this summer, and maybe Portis next summer if we don't trade him, or if we don't get a good deal for him. We aren't worried about money, and even if we paid Portis, which wouldn't be any where near a max, and we paid Lavine Near a Max, we could still sign a Max FA in 2020/21, and you can go into the tax for you own players, which would be Dunn, who again we won't know his worth until at least next summer. '

    If say we draft Porter or Mikal 7th, and our Core is Dunn/Lavine/(Porter/Mikal)/Lauri, we will have the money pay someone like AD whatever they want. Portis is a trade asset. Valentine should definitely be traded or let walk if he asks for real money in 2020/21. We have a 22nd pick and next years likely late lottery 1st to add a bench Combo guard and a backup PF/C. Our main focus is on 2018 7th pick, our 3 current young core guys, and building a team that looks appealing enough for a big name to come join in 202/21 when we are ready to compete past the 1st round of the playoffs.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aapox View Post
    The nice thing about KD is he just needs to improve his longer midrange shot and 3ball. Everything else is pretty good.
    I'd actually cut out the 3's altogether with him. He has a weird, kind of mechanical shooting stroke and just looks way more comfortable shooting in the paint. Attack, try to draw fouls and hit mid range jumpers. I think he'll be a better Offensive player for it.

    Some guys just aren't good long range shooters and that's fine if they can contribute in other ways.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    Lol I'm not spazzing, I'm just saying we undervalue the **** out of our players.

    True or False: People said the same thing about Jimmy Butler after his 3rd year?

    My point is, wait until at least after year 4. Of course Kris Dunn needs to improve on his 1st season and a half of games to deserve a big contract. That's a no **** statement. Why are we even worried about his contract A) when it's not an issue until 2020/21, and B) when he hasn't even been a starter for an entire year. If he sucks the next 2 years, we don't even have to keep him if we don't want, and that just opens up that much more money. We are going to have big money spent Lavine this summer, and maybe Portis next summer if we don't trade him, or if we don't get a good deal for him. We aren't worried about money, and even if we paid Portis, which wouldn't be any where near a max, and we paid Lavine Near a Max, we could still sign a Max FA in 2020/21, and you can go into the tax for you own players, which would be Dunn, who again we won't know his worth until at least next summer. '

    If say we draft Porter or Mikal 7th, and our Core is Dunn/Lavine/(Porter/Mikal)/Lauri, we will have the money pay someone like AD whatever they want. Portis is a trade asset. Valentine should definitely be traded or let walk if he asks for real money in 2020/21. We have a 22nd pick and next years likely late lottery 1st to add a bench Combo guard and a backup PF/C. Our main focus is on 2018 7th pick, our 3 current young core guys, and building a team that looks appealing enough for a big name to come join in 202/21 when we are ready to compete past the 1st round of the playoffs.
    Come on man, people around here absolutely loved Jimmy and anyone that paid attention to his advanced stats knew a breakout was coming with more usage, and it did.

    It's easy to make these claims like "I was the only one that liked Jimmy G Bucketzzzz son!" after the fact, but a lot of Bulls fans always liked him. Saying otherwise is nonsense.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    Beverley may be a bad comp, but Butler, Draymond, and Dipo are all pretty bad as well. You're only referencing counting stats when comparing these players. The underlying efficiency numbers (TS%, FTr) with Butler and Dipo have always been stronger, regardless of what point in their careers we're talking about. Draymond has been a better defender (DPOY caliber since his 2nd season) than anything Dunn's shown to this point.

    I think you really are just overvaluing him. Calling him an elite defender is probably a stretch too. He's good, fine, solid, whatever. There are maybe a handful of elite defenders in the league (Gobert, Draymond, Drummond, Davis, George, and a few others), but Kris Dunn is not on that list. He's nowhere close to the top 10-20 in most defensive rankings when you look at Drtg, DBPM, DWS, or really anything indicative of a plus defender. It's also a lot harder for a PG to be an elite defender given the talent at the position, the constant switching nowadays, and ticky tack foul calls.

    I don't dislike Dunn, but I'm not really a big fan either. He's pretty meh IMO. If this were a better PG class, I'd be all over taking one to at least push him, but it's pretty much garbage past Sexton and I doubt they're leaning that way either. Who knows, he might be a good player eventually, but there's very little he's shown to this point to make me think that'll be the case.
    We were a much better team with Dunn on the court than without. I don't think it's unfair to call him a top 3 PG. Also with Oladipo, a lot of people hated Oladipo until this year. I'm not saying he's going to be as good as any of those guys. I'm saying look at their 3rd seasons compared to Dunn's 2nd. He barely played half a season last year.

  14. #74
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    Dunn's (PDR) was 6.4, good for 4th overall behind

    Oladipo 8.1
    Dejounte Murray 7.6
    Covington 7.0
    Brewer/Roberson/Dunn 6.4

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    I'd actually cut out the 3's altogether with him. He has a weird, kind of mechanical shooting stroke and just looks way more comfortable shooting in the paint. Attack, try to draw fouls and hit mid range jumpers. I think he'll be a better Offensive player for it.

    Some guys just aren't good long range shooters and that's fine if they can contribute in other ways.
    I agree, that's what Tony Parker did. He rarely took 3's. Only thing that slowed down Parker was injuries late in his career.

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