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  1. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    He's a big reason for them winning though. While he was more raw as an offensive player early in his career, he was an elite defender from day one. His emergence extended the Spurs championship window when Duncan and Manu were near the end.

    We can play the hypothetical game of he and Jimmy's roles being reversed all day, but can't you do that with a lot of players? Good and bad situations are crucial to a players development.

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
    Of course. And yes, KL was a huge part of their success. But does anyone believe KL would be a champ if he was with the Bulls under the same situation Jimmy was? Virtually no chance. There would be no Finals MVP on his resume and he would be looked at differently. Itís not even a real debate as far as Iím concerned. The difference between the two is marginal, IMO. The bigger difference is the situations they were drafted into. Much like life and people. Everyoneís circumstances, up bringing, influences, parents, associates, and every other fine detail play a huge role into their development.

  2. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Of course. And yes, KL was a huge part of their success. But does anyone believe KL would be a champ if he was with the Bulls under the same situation Jimmy was? Virtually no chance. There would be no Finals MVP on his resume and he would be looked at differently.
    I'm not even factoring that stuff in here anyway.

    Itís not even a real debate as far as Iím concerned. The difference between the two is marginal, IMO.
    Earlier in their careers I'd agree. I added this to my previous post as well, but I'll just say it again. When Jimmy and Kawhi both saw big bumps in their usage (14/15) they both took a significant step Offensively. Jimmy took a noticeable step back Defensively (and while still decent, has never been that lockdown guy since), Kawhi maintained that elite level of D (winning 2 DPOY awards) while also being as good or better Offensively.

    The bigger difference is the situations they were drafted into. Much like life and people. Everyoneís circumstances, up bringing, influences, parents, associates, and every other fine detail play a huge role into their development.
    I mean, I'm not disagreeing with this. It's why a lot of the same teams draft over and over in the top of the lottery. They absolutely suck at player development.

    As for this situation, all we can do is speculate. But when the Spurs truly became his team 14-17, he became a top 3-5 player.

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  3. #348
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    Bulls Trades and Acquisitions Thread 2018 Off-Season

    I mean, Iíd definitely take KL over Butler, but Iím not sure KL would ever resurrect and win a chip for a franchise like the Bulls. He was in a great situation and my response was to someone pointing out KLís finals MVP and championship while stating Jimmy got bounced in the playoffs. I just pointed out KL on the Bulls doesnít have those accolades and I donít think anyone could really argue that he would. Whereas if Jimmy were on the Spurs, there would at least be a reasonable chance he would have a title. Purely speculative, sure. But practically a guarantee if KL had to travel the path Butler did, he would have no chips on his resume.

  4. #349
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    Kawai alone or just with Mark does not get it done in todays NBA. Period. Its likr NY trading a **** tone for melo and then never pairing him with anything but Burnt out Amare. Except now teams need more than just 2 stars. Kawai is a great player but without a good team he is going to Rot.

  5. #350
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    I saw an interesting trade idea that i might not be so opposed to. I cant take credit though.Davisayan posted the idea in the draft forum.

    But the idea goes #4 and Chandler Parsons (2 years 49 mil) to the Bulls for #7 Bobby Portis and Cristiano Felecio (3 year 23 mil)

    Bulls move up to 4 and draft whoever it is they like. Also 2020 (Anthony davis opt out year) we clear a ton of cap through parsons and open up some extra by ditching Felecio.

    I dont totoally love it (as we still take on Cap) but I think it hurts less by getting rid of Felevio. So what do u guys think.
    Last edited by Kyben36; 06-14-2018 at 12:43 AM.

  6. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    I saw an interesting trade idea that i might not be so opposed to. I cant take credit though.Davisayan posted the idea in the draft forum.

    But the idea goes #4 and Chandler Parsons (2 years 49 mil) to the Bulls for #7 Bobby Portis and Cristiano Felecio (3 year 23 mil)

    Bulls move up to 4 and draft whoever it is they like. Also 2020 (Anthony davis opt out year) we clear a ton of cap through parsons and open up some extra by ditching Felecio.

    I dont totoally love it (as we still take on Cap) but I think it hurts less by getting rid of Felevio. So what do u guys think.

    Interesting idea, but we would be essentially paying 17 mil+Portis to move up 3 spots, not really in love with that song. But I am down with clearing as much cap for that 2020 off season when Kyrie and AD could both potentially be free agents👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀

  7. #352
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    I'd like that deal in the sense that we'd get rid of Felicio's deal. It's not prohibitive yet, but $8M per for a 3rd string C is a total waste.

    Would probably just try to take on Parsons deal instead of including Portis though, if at all possible.

  8. #353
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    So, I have 4 ideas on trades for Players on teams looking to shed cap. I think most of these are somewhat realistic But at the same time Maybe they are a bit off so feel free to Judge them.




    TRADE #1 (Denver)

    Bulls Trade a Future 2nd round pick (maybe protected)

    Nuggets trade Kenneth Faried (1 year 14 mil) and the 14th pick

    WHY- Nuggets are probably looking at FA this year as their last chance in a while to add a quality roster piece, But Faried is kinda Clogging that up with his 14 mil. If they trade him they may open enough to add a quality Bench player or 6th man to help compete with their relatively young group. and With only a handful of teams able to absorb Faried it will likely cost them the 14th pick to get rid of him.

    Repercussions- So The Bulls can likely absorb his one year deal easily. But it 100% takes us out of any FA bidding this season. the Good news is since its only 1 year it does not affect our FA next season. which I think with Asik and Lopez off is a more likely time to strike anyway. Plus this deal makes it much easier to deal Portis who Faried can replace off the bench for this year, and allow us to find his replacement down the line.



    Trade #2 (Lakers)

    Bulls Trade a Future 2nd round pick (maybe protected)

    Lakers Trade Luol Deng (2 year 36 mil) and Brandon Ingram (or Kyle Kuzma)

    WHY- Lakers would clear enough cap space to sign 2 Max type deals to allure whomever they may want to to team up in FA, However Luol Deng is in the way. To clear him they are going to have to give up an asset, and that 25th pick is far from enough to do it, If they want to Sign two stars. they will have to give up Ingram or Kuzma IMO. (nobody really wants lonzo) and Personally I like Ingram Better though there is a benefit to Kuzma as well.

    Repercussions- We will not be FA players this year, but I don't think this affects next year too bad. and still leaves 2020 as a 2nd year we can make an attempt to grab somebody. The Slight downside is that in 2020 we will need to resign Ingram if we included him, which could affect our FA signing ability. as we would have Kris Dunn and Brandon Ingram as FA that same off season. So Kuzma and his 3 years left might be a better deal thought I like him less as a player.



    Trade #3 (Grizzlies)

    Bulls Trade #7 and Cristiano Felecio (3 year 24 mil)

    Grizzlies Trade #4 and Chandler Parsons (2 years 49 Mil)

    WHY- Actually i have a hard time rationalizing this for the Grizzlies other than Shedding Parsons cap and getting to the cap Threshold. The truth is this deal really would only affect their Lux tax by putting them under but not really help them out in terms of Signing any FA. However at the same time Parsons has been nothing for them and maybe they just want to get under cap to avoid paying the Lux tax Multiplier.

    Repercussions- This one WE simply move up 3 spots (which i equate to about a late loto pick moving from 7-4) But we are costing ourselves FA this year. But we do get a Better chance to get "our guy" at 4 to make sure you find that Stud we are looking to pair with Lavine and Lauri.



    Trade #4 (Grizzlies)

    Bulls Trade Bobby Portis #22 and a Future Pick (maybe protected)

    Grizzlies Trade Chandler Parsons (2 year 49 mil) and the #4 Pick

    WHY- This one makes a little more sense for the Griz who are likely on their last run with Conley and Gasol. They clear up some cap space to make a run to add that final starter, while Bobby Portis slides right in at PF to Start for them right now, instead of waiting on a rok to develop.

    Repercussions- Bulls get a 2nd top 7 Pick in a loaded Draft, However..... This is probably the worst deal in terms of Future FA signings. With Parsons and Felecio + whatever Lavine makes we will likely be out of FA Hunting for not only this year, but next year as well even with Lopez and Asik coming off. leaving our only chance to really strike in 2020. That really limits your opportunity But Hopefully with Lauri Lavine #4 + #7 You could Lure a top 2020 FA To join that core. But If you strike out Thats your only chance to get one before our Cap starts getting ugly.





    Personally looking at all of them, I am not sure which one i would like the most, that idea of getting a 2nd top 7 pick would be awesome, but to give up on FA for the next two years would be so hard to do. and your basically giving yourself one shot to get a guy to finish your team off. But Feel Free to Rate these in the order you would prefer them in. I doubt any of these trades happen but one might as teams are looking to shed cap. and we are one of the 5 teams who could be of assistance.


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  9. #354
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    I'd do #4 and have 2x Top 7 picks this year. Don't think the Bulls should be players for any real FA these next two years, so if paying Parsons is the cost of business, ok. Bulls will have enough of their own players to develop and decide to resign vs. not resign that I think not being able to dish out a big contract in FA for 2 years would be a blessing in disguise. Let's see what we have in a core of Dunn, LaVine, #4, #7, Lauri and another year or two of first round picks and *then* adjust fire via FA when the **** contract(s) come off the books.

  10. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by pentel1980 View Post
    I'd do #4 and have 2x Top 7 picks this year. Don't think the Bulls should be players for any real FA these next two years, so if paying Parsons is the cost of business, ok. Bulls will have enough of their own players to develop and decide to resign vs. not resign that I think not being able to dish out a big contract in FA for 2 years would be a blessing in disguise. Let's see what we have in a core of Dunn, LaVine, #4, #7, Lauri and another year or two of first round picks and *then* adjust fire via FA when the **** contract(s) come off the books.
    Agreed 100%

    That would be an exiting core and a team easy to watch and root for.

  11. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by pentel1980 View Post
    I'd do #4 and have 2x Top 7 picks this year. Don't think the Bulls should be players for any real FA these next two years, so if paying Parsons is the cost of business, ok. Bulls will have enough of their own players to develop and decide to resign vs. not resign that I think not being able to dish out a big contract in FA for 2 years would be a blessing in disguise. Let's see what we have in a core of Dunn, LaVine, #4, #7, Lauri and another year or two of first round picks and *then* adjust fire via FA when the **** contract(s) come off the books.
    Agree but #1 is pretty appealing too!


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  12. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanatic View Post
    Agree but #1 is pretty appealing too!

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    Well hell, nothing stopping from doing both #1 and #2. But if choosing just one option, going with #2. Also: not sure I see DEN selling that low on their pick with only one year left on Faried's contact.

  13. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Agreed 100%

    That would be an exiting core and a team easy to watch and root for.
    Could you imagine? That could potentially bring in a duo of Doncic/Bamba or Bamba/Porter to go with Dunn/LaVine/Lauri.

    *Salivating*

  14. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    So, I have 4 ideas on trades for Players on teams looking to shed cap. I think most of these are somewhat realistic But at the same time Maybe they are a bit off so feel free to Judge them.




    TRADE #1 (Denver)

    Bulls Trade a Future 2nd round pick (maybe protected)

    Nuggets trade Kenneth Faried (1 year 14 mil) and the 14th pick

    WHY- Nuggets are probably looking at FA this year as their last chance in a while to add a quality roster piece, But Faried is kinda Clogging that up with his 14 mil. If they trade him they may open enough to add a quality Bench player or 6th man to help compete with their relatively young group. and With only a handful of teams able to absorb Faried it will likely cost them the 14th pick to get rid of him.

    Repercussions- So The Bulls can likely absorb his one year deal easily. But it 100% takes us out of any FA bidding this season. the Good news is since its only 1 year it does not affect our FA next season. which I think with Asik and Lopez off is a more likely time to strike anyway. Plus this deal makes it much easier to deal Portis who Faried can replace off the bench for this year, and allow us to find his replacement down the line.



    Trade #2 (Lakers)

    Bulls Trade a Future 2nd round pick (maybe protected)

    Lakers Trade Luol Deng (2 year 36 mil) and Brandon Ingram (or Kyle Kuzma)

    WHY- Lakers would clear enough cap space to sign 2 Max type deals to allure whomever they may want to to team up in FA, However Luol Deng is in the way. To clear him they are going to have to give up an asset, and that 25th pick is far from enough to do it, If they want to Sign two stars. they will have to give up Ingram or Kuzma IMO. (nobody really wants lonzo) and Personally I like Ingram Better though there is a benefit to Kuzma as well.

    Repercussions- We will not be FA players this year, but I don't think this affects next year too bad. and still leaves 2020 as a 2nd year we can make an attempt to grab somebody. The Slight downside is that in 2020 we will need to resign Ingram if we included him, which could affect our FA signing ability. as we would have Kris Dunn and Brandon Ingram as FA that same off season. So Kuzma and his 3 years left might be a better deal thought I like him less as a player.



    Trade #3 (Grizzlies)

    Bulls Trade #7 and Cristiano Felecio (3 year 24 mil)

    Grizzlies Trade #4 and Chandler Parsons (2 years 49 Mil)

    WHY- Actually i have a hard time rationalizing this for the Grizzlies other than Shedding Parsons cap and getting to the cap Threshold. The truth is this deal really would only affect their Lux tax by putting them under but not really help them out in terms of Signing any FA. However at the same time Parsons has been nothing for them and maybe they just want to get under cap to avoid paying the Lux tax Multiplier.

    Repercussions- This one WE simply move up 3 spots (which i equate to about a late loto pick moving from 7-4) But we are costing ourselves FA this year. But we do get a Better chance to get "our guy" at 4 to make sure you find that Stud we are looking to pair with Lavine and Lauri.



    Trade #4 (Grizzlies)

    Bulls Trade Bobby Portis #22 and a Future Pick (maybe protected)

    Grizzlies Trade Chandler Parsons (2 year 49 mil) and the #4 Pick

    WHY- This one makes a little more sense for the Griz who are likely on their last run with Conley and Gasol. They clear up some cap space to make a run to add that final starter, while Bobby Portis slides right in at PF to Start for them right now, instead of waiting on a rok to develop.

    Repercussions- Bulls get a 2nd top 7 Pick in a loaded Draft, However..... This is probably the worst deal in terms of Future FA signings. With Parsons and Felecio + whatever Lavine makes we will likely be out of FA Hunting for not only this year, but next year as well even with Lopez and Asik coming off. leaving our only chance to really strike in 2020. That really limits your opportunity But Hopefully with Lauri Lavine #4 + #7 You could Lure a top 2020 FA To join that core. But If you strike out Thats your only chance to get one before our Cap starts getting ugly.





    Personally looking at all of them, I am not sure which one i would like the most, that idea of getting a 2nd top 7 pick would be awesome, but to give up on FA for the next two years would be so hard to do. and your basically giving yourself one shot to get a guy to finish your team off. But Feel Free to Rate these in the order you would prefer them in. I doubt any of these trades happen but one might as teams are looking to shed cap. and we are one of the 5 teams who could be of assistance.
    Obviously #4 (although they're all pipe dreams that I think would need more going back to the other teams still). This would still leave us with 20 million in cap space, and 2 picks.

    Then, complete trade #2 for Deng/Ingram for a future 2nd/Holiday.

    Draft Doncic/Bamba hopefully at 4/7. If not Doncic, go with Porter. If not Bamba, go with Carter Jr.

    Dunn/Grant/Payne
    Lavine/Doncic/Nwaba
    Ingram/Valentine/Deng
    Lauri
    Lopez/Bamba/Felicio

    We'd be weak at backup PG/PF, but with Dunn, Doncic, Lavine, Ingram, Lauri, Bamba as our core we could worry about that later.

  15. #360
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    #1 works the best IMO, #2 and #4 are ok, don't like #3 at all.
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